I wanted to be seen.

[melissaK]

"I wanted to be seen.
I didn't want to spend the rest of my life hiding.
It's as simple as that."


Badtranny posted that, in responding to posts on a thread Kathryn bit her lower lip off in support of her resolve to stay out of, and I thought it was pithy and succinct (a way of writing Badtranny excels at, and one which I envy).

I'm in "gender fluid" middle earth. I'm pretty happy right now, gender dysphoria has fled, and I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth. But I can't help but wonder how, or why, this is working for me. And in those ruminations, I have noticed that in getting here, and in being here, "being seen" is a really big deal to me and it has played a big role.

I am ok here in gender fluid land because first and foremost my wife, my long time significant other, found it within herself to accept "me." She "sees" "me" and acknowledges "me." The analogy to the movie Avatar where Nateri "sees" Jake despite him being in his human form is very apropos. My wife looked at me struggling with my image in a mirror one day and took my head in her hands and turned my face to hers and said "Stop looking in the mirror for your affirmation, look in my eyes and know that I see you." It was a hugely romantic thing for her to say, but she does "see" "me," and in our time together she acts like she sees me, and it makes all the difference.

(I think it helps me greatly that my sexual orientation is lesbian, always has been, as this orientation means its less important that what's in my pants gets changed. I don't necessarily need to change to make a physical accommodation for a sex partner, and my wife who isn't lesbian in orientation is happy enough without the in the pants change).

And, living in the gender fluid middle, I need some way for others to not automatically cast me into maledom upon sight. So long hair has been a huge help. It stalls most everyone's assessment of me, at least for a moment - and they then check my clothes and other accoutrements of appearance for more cues as they try to assess me, and they will find pants or blouse or something that is cross gender - and I know that in that moment they get a glimpse of "me."

So far it's been enough. . . but getting "seen" to some degree has been essential . . .

How much we must "be seen" to find some contentment seems to me to be an individual thing . . .

Am I on the right track?

[I Am Paula]

Good post. Whichever track works for YOU is the right track. If I may make a tiny comment. You can't say gender fluid, then claim to be lesbian. With your wife, lesbian means female, not fluid. In gender fluidity, there are no straight/gay/ lesbian labels, cause you are all/none of them.

[Inna]

As we mostly put down our thought as to the Original Thread intent, I shall ask the question, because I see certain triggers within the thread which make me wonder.

Melissa, when you describe your quest to see YOU in the mirror, or others to see YOU through clothing clues, WHO DO YOU WANT THEM TO SEE?

[Badtranny]

, WHO DO YOU WANT THEM TO SEE?

I understand her Inna. This gender fluid thing speaks to a discomfort with being confined to whatever box you were assigned at birth, but not necessarily a desire to be in the other box. In this case being "seen" means being recognized for something other than a straight male. I totally get this because that's the first thing I noticed when I was very early in my transition. People didn't identify me as female, but they didn't respond like I was a typical guy either. Eventually getting mis-gendered would hurt but in the beginning it was wonderful to be seen as something other than a regular man. My encounters with women took an immediate turn for the positive. I was a guy, but no longer a predator. For nearly two years I was in the "in-between' state and that meant being shunned or laughed at sometimes, but it was also an incredible experience of being my natural self for the first time. My friends knew I loved to shop, my friends knew I loved guys, none of my new girlfriends ever worried about me coming on to them. It was truly great to drop the dude act and even though I wasn't passing as a woman, I was definitely passing as something other than a regular man.

The world was finally seeing me for who I was, which happened to be an obvious transsexual in early stages of transition, but that was okay. That's who I was.

MelissaK is describing the simple pleasure of being visible to her wife. The wife doesn't see her as a man, but as something different, perhaps a lesbian, or a woman. She knows MelissaK likes to do typically feminine things. She treats her as an equal and not as something "other" than a woman. For some people, that may be enough. Maybe just the affirmation from your circle of friends is good enough. The important thing is not pretending anymore. For people to know who you are and acknowledge it in the subtle ways that can only come from complete acceptance of it. This acceptance by the way is hard earned over an amount of time that varies from person to person.

First you accept yourself, than begin living your life without a mask, than people slowly begin to see you.

[STACY B]

I know what you mean ,, I am in the middle also ,, An will be for some time I am sure ,, But at first glimpse they will know I am not in the Male box an not trying overly hard to be or (Prove) to be in the female box ,, Just my own BOX for now ,, I will always be me an not someone else ,, An no one knows how far I will get ,, Its a Crap Shoot ,, Like all the vets say here EVERYONE responds different to the Meds . Some make it look easy an some don't get so lucky ? If your one of the Lucky ones your a Blockbuster Hit ,, But I will bet that for the Most part we are just a Movie of the week or rerun at best ,, So just keep your head up an live an love an hope for the best ,, An only exsplain it to the ones that are worthy of it ,, The rest can figure it out in a rerun ,,,lol ,,,,,

[arbon]

I think being able to express yourself as you are without needing repress yourself - its a just a good thing wherever your gender falls on the spectrum - whether you are a crossdresser, dual gender, transsexual.

Its freedom to be yourself.

For me when I think of being seen a lot of it is about not being seen as a man, which is bad for my emotional and mental well being. The more people don't see me as male but recognize me as a woman the better I feel about me. Because it is who I am.

[mary something]

[I]"[B]
How much we must "be seen" to find some contentment seems to me to be an individual thing . . .

Am I on the right track?

Yes you are on the right track. Not because of any of your specific details but because you seem much happier and at peace with yourself than you did in the past. Your relationship is important to you and it was really sweet what your wife told you.

Celeste brought up an excellent point about the lesbian label. Gender fluid is hard to express I suppose because people require labels.

Badtranny made an excellent point about the distinction in people seeing you. I think giving up some male privilige helps to alleviate strong gender discomfort, at least for a while. Once the experience of being seen as you are now becomes "normal" to you the question is in the future do you want your presentation to express more female or stay the same. It's hard to answer that question until you've had enough experience with your current presentation to know what other people are thinking.

Transitioning is like driving a car that only goes forward, it's psychologically painful to try and turn around if you overshoot your comfort zone. Take your time and make being happy your goal. Then you'll never have to ask if you're on the right track, only discuss what options you have to become happier.

[kathtx]

Good post. Whichever track works for YOU is the right track. If I may make a tiny comment. You can't say gender fluid, then claim to be lesbian. With your wife, lesbian means female, not fluid. In gender fluidity, there are no straight/gay/ lesbian labels, cause you are all/none of them.

Useful words are "gynephile" and "androphile", which specify the object of your attraction without reference you your own gender which may be fluid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphila_and_gynephilia

From what she's described the OP might be better described as a gynephile than as a lesbian.

[melissaK]

Useful words are "gynephile" and "androphile", which specify the object of your attraction without reference you your own gender which may be fluid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphila_and_gynephilia
From what she's described the OP might be better described as a gynephile than as a lesbian.

I don't think I have a quarrel with that re-classification . . . it's just not common in people's vocabulary, and if I say my orientation is 'lesbian' they get on track quicker. If I say gynephile they are confused, or worse, start equating the terms with 'auto******' which is guaranteed fighting words.

[KellyJameson]

For myself it is similar to physical movement as physical change so I was and am moving along a path of physical change.

Being seen pulled me to wanting to be seen even more so I dove into my identity which was already there but others were feeding it by seeing it.

I often would ask myself if I would do this if I lived on a deserted island because I needed to understand how much of this was just for me independent of others and how much was for me dependent on others.

I knew that I needed to see myself as the manifestation of my internalized image of myself but this image was not really clear in my mind and I would only see it afterwards like a confirmation because each change felt like it was natural to me.

I was not trying to look like a woman but to look like me which resulted in looking like a woman.

You are both the Potter and the clay.

Socially being seen as a woman as that image I carry of me was not important but I found that there was a second need I was unaware of because I had been starved so long for it that I really did not know I was starving so the hunger pains were normal.

This is being seen as a woman as "gender" which is that experience that all women know collectively regardless of how they look so it is about perceptions and expectations.

It gives you certain freedoms while taking others.

If I brush my hair in public no one seems to find this unusual anymore and when my legs are tangled up and going every which way it seems "normal"

It is very difficult to capture the experience in words because it is just all that behavior that I have always done that brought on hard looks, cruel words and stares that like a puff of smoke is gone and not only is it normal behavior it is expected.

Men are expected to move in ways women are not and all these behaviors I was never able to do so now everything I have always done is now acceptable because the packaging is different.

It is somewhat tragic that there seems to be a deeply imbedded gender expectation that is intimately tied to millions of little acts.

I became acutely self conscious of this in childhood that I moved differently than others and that there was something missing inside my head that would make possible for me to stand, walk or sit in ways considered "normal"

This is that other form of being "seen" where you "on the inside" do not change but because the outside does you are now "accepted" so seen as "normal"

You are not only seen as a "woman" but now you are also seen as "normal" socially. The outside matches the inside in the eyes of others.

The energy and the body are one.

I did not see myself as "normal" for my own reasons and "others" did not see me as "normal" for their reasons but changing the outside resolved both problems.

You experience freedom as the learned self consciousness drops off because now how you are "seen" is normal so you are "normal"

I do not think transitioning to be accepted by others is a healthy path to step on but our mental health is intimately tied to how we are treated because of how we are "seen" as gender but this is that invisible gender that has nothing to do with the genitalia but is decided by the genitalia you carry or at least what others think you carry.

Being "seen" brings freedom so the more you are seen the more you may want to be seen because of the desire for more freedom.

I see now that transitioning is as much about freedom as it is about identity.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Good post. Whichever track works for YOU is the right track. If I may make a tiny comment. You can't say gender fluid, then claim to be lesbian. With your wife, lesbian means female, not fluid. In gender fluidity, there are no straight/gay/ lesbian labels, cause you are all/none of them.

Actually you can't have it both ways.. is whatever works for you really true then?

If you are cool with labels being only about self identifying whatever you claim to be, then why can't you be a male lesbian? or a bisexual gender fluid person....you can either be whatever you want or you can't

[stefan37]

Individuals wanting to label themselves and the arguments that ensue are pointless. There is an individual at my support group with a male name, lives and works as a male, married with no intention of transitioning, introduction of hormones or name change. Yet this individual introduced himself with his male name and stated he was a self identified transsexual. Why anyone that chooses to live as their birth gender, want to classify themselves a transsexual is way beyond my knowledge. He mentioned how accepting his wife was of his transgender nature, I then asked him if he were to actively transition would his wife be so accepting? I think we all know the answer to that one. I know if I could be genderfluid and live the bulk of my life a s man My relationship with my wife would not have changed as dramatically as it did. There is another individual in my group that I think has it right. She lives 80% of the time a s afemale, but enjoys those times she wants to be him. She has no desire to change her name, take hormones or have any type of body modification. She identifies as genderfluid and in my opinion she gets her identity and is able to live in that middle zone. In my wife's support group for spouses there is a new individual that joined, is a female and says she is female, identifies as female yet says she is pangender. A term I was introduced to last night. So to argue about whether one is transsexual or not and the flame wars it produces to me is an exercise in futility.

As for myself, I will use the term Misty coined, I am a transitioner. I am actively transitioning. I have been on hormones for a year, Filed last week for legal name change and plan to live my life as a female in the near future. My mother the other day commented and thanked me for wearing a suit to my mother-in law's funeral. I mentioned I did it out of respect for my mother in law and her family so as not to create undue drama. I also promised my wife I would wear a suit and tie to my nephew's wedding next week again to make my wife feel comfortable and out of respect for my nephew and his family. I then explained to my mom why I would wear male clothes for those events but that at some point in the future I will no longer wear men's suits or other male attire. She commented that I should reserve wearing female attire to those times I go out with my friends. I explained to her this was not a lifestyle where I can live my life part time, and when things got rough hide back behind my male persona. This for me will be life time change to live as the opposite gender. I wish to be seen and have my gender identity reflected back to me. It is important to me and the name change while scary, will be a concrete step forward and cement in my mind and those around me my commitment to transition fully to the opposite gender.

That I believe is the difference between those that have an identity so strong they cannot live as a male. Yes it may take some of us many years to get to that point. And some of us may be able to mitigate our inner desires for whatever reason and continue to function and live as our birth gender. But why someone that wants to or feels they must live as their birth gender and wants to identify as transsexual escapes me.

[Kathryn Martin]

"The dissociation of being of a gender and the world communicating back your birth sex is so fundamental it amounts to a sense of being invisible and never to be touched. It is the loneliest place imaginable."

"Stop looking in the mirror for your affirmation, look in my eyes and know that I see you."

Enough!

[StephanieC]

What a great wife you have! You two have certainly made progress!

I think there is always a certain amount of self-doubt about aspects of our identity. Some people require energy that emanates from others; while others are driven internally. So I think it's natural to look for affirmation from others. It's almost like a cry to the universe to recognize that an event has occur, perhaps that history has been rewritten.

Myself, I don't know if I could be content to be in the middle. I guess, though, that's where I am now but things a changing a bit. For me, I doubt I can ever get such positive validation from a person that knows me so well. I hope for that but I am doubtful that is possible. My only choice is to continue to take steps. From time to time, I can see progress, but it is incredibly slow and so very painful.

-stephani

[mary something]

For me, I doubt I can ever get such positive validation from a person that knows me so well.

-stephani

I think positive validation starts from within ourselves and then is mirrored by those around us if they choose to. I only know you from your contributions here and yet I experience so much goodness inside of you that you share with others here.

This is such a slow process that it forces us to be in the middle for a long time. In my opinion it's best to make peace with the inevitable and focus on the journey more than the destination. It is very painful to need something that is impossible, and it is impossible to transition faster than our bodies and mind can change.

Explore your doubts and conquer them so that you can travel well through this transition. Doubts are when we attack ourselves, and they typically show us what we need to do next to be happier. Embrace the doubts that you feel and view them as an opportunity to learn what is needed right now to keep moving toward your peace.

[Angela Campbell]

Validation from others is a tricky thing. Those who are familiar with this are so accepting that the validation from them really cannot be trusted. It can tend to put you in a place that is very different from those who do not understand. Then again validation from those who know nothing about this process can be of great value. Validation of yourself is the key. Then again this is something out of our control.

[kimdl93]

Excellent post, and a wonderful wife. My wife didn't use those words, but she did affirm me by accepting me when I finally asked if I could dress fully en femme in her company. It's a bit like her turning my face from the mirror...and made me feel whole and real...at least in her eyes.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I like what mary says..

the first positive validation is the one you give yourself..

everything else comes from that

[Nigella]

Exactly Kaitlyn

How can anyone expect validation from others if you cannot accept your own validation?

[mary something]

it sounds simple but it's really tricky isn't it? How do you learn how to validate yourself without requiring others to help you do it? It's especially tricky when transitioning because men and women are socialized to validate themselves in different ways. No one teaches us how the other gender does it.

I think this is an aspect of what some of the posters are talking about maybe when they talk about the difference between fulltime and part time living. Someone can be transitioning in both of course, but the obstacles are different.

Sorry I didn't word that as a question. It would be nice if some of the members here who are farther along in their transition would help us to understand what they did to find the validation they needed when it wasn't being reflected to them by others. The people with skin in the game 24/7

[Nigella]

... It would be nice if some of the members here who are farther along in their transition would help us to understand what they did to find the validation they needed when it wasn't being reflected to them by others.

A lot would depend upon the type of validation you are looking for. I sought and got validation as a person, irrespective of my gender. If you are looking for validation from the wider public, they just don't care. They have their own lives to lead, why should they bother whether you are male, female or gender neutral.

Validation from colleagues is all dependent upon the systems, procedures and other work based protection you may or may not have.

Validation from friends comes from one simple action, whether they stay within the relationship you have built prior to "coming out" or use it as an escape clause.

Validation from family, unfortunately this is a lot more difficult to define as family relationships are a lot more complex to understand.

Validation from yourself, accept who and what you are, don't hide.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Mary you make a good point...
I agree with nigella...

Go meet lots of people...transsexual women, and genetic women especially...lots of them...stop talking, start living...let the chips fall..
By doing this you get vital info..

I realize there are practical considerations sometimes..but unfortunately sometimes you have to do the impractical thing to get the best result..

[Jorja]

I totally agree with Kaitlyn Michele. When you get out there and mix and mingle with with a group of other women you will quickly see what, if anything, you need to be working on. Don't get all upset and down because you do not meet someone else's vision of what a woman should be. Become your own woman. Do it your way. You will find you are not so different than the average woman. It is the only way to learn.

[melissaK]

To follow up on Kaitlyn's "Nike" advice (Just do it), I have been out and about a bit lately as work took me to SanFran for most of last week. And I have changed how I look a lot. Keep in mind I am not trying to pass as F - - but I'm hitting some gender middle ground, and I figured SF is as safe a city as I am going to find to "try out" how I look. (I mean this City has seen it all). And the response of others was - - odd. I expected to not be noticed at all, or I'd be noticed with some judgmental look of displeasure or amusement at the absurdity of me.

You can't read too much into brief social encounters, but mostly I was just being treated as another ordinary person in the flow of people through the City. But when I was noticed, I was generally treated as "somebody important." This surprised me a lot.

The bell desk porter moved me and my wife ahead to the front of the taxi line and found us an airport shuttle we didn't have to share with anyone; at the Porsche Design store the manager ran out from the back to wait on us displacing the clerk; at the Aquitainne wine bar, they turned the music down for us; at John's Diner they put us in a window seat; and a comment that really struck me was the TSA agent who said "You must have an important job where you work."

So I have some theories about this.

One is, I am really the closest to being "me" I have ever been in my life, and with that comes some degree of self contentment and self assuredness in my deportment.

And a second is, you can't afford to look like I do unless you answer to almost nobody, so given that I was in a pricey hotel, eating out, was in an expensive goods store, and was flying upgraded business class, I must have made it financially so I was either independently wealthy or was really good at what I do.

Anyway, I am seeking the least validation from others that I have ever sought in my life, and this being yourself stuff feels awfully good.

[StephanieC]

'lissa,

I have always assumed you were someone. You have always impressed me that way.

-stephani

[Dawn cd]

When you get to be as old as I am, you are genderfluid whether you like it or not. My predator days are long gone. It's easier for me to wear femme things, carry a purse, use a little perfume. It doesn't threaten anyone, least of all other guys. However I don't get the front table at a restaurant, and for that I am envious, Miss K.

[mary something]

Validation from yourself, accept who and what you are, don't hide.

Thanks for the replies everyone has contributed so far!

I asked the question of how do we learn how to feel self-validated without using others because that is what I percieved to be the crux of the post that Melissa made.

I appreciate all the responses, and they all contain truths that have been purchased with experience by the posters and given freely to anyone who reads them. Thank you to each person who posted.

Melissa's experience on her trip (in my opinion) was due to the fact that she WASN'T seeking validation from others, because she was supplying it to herself in exactly the way that Nigella advised. Accept, understand, then live it. This is powerful stuff that can't be hidden from others, people unconsciously will feel the energy that someone gives off and will respond accordingly.


I haven't traveled as far along my path of transition as many of the other people here, yet I have experienced many problems in my life so far that has taught me how to feel validation without using others as a reference. Sure transition presents some unique challenges that aren't often mirrored in other struggles that people have, but learning to feel comfortable and confident with yourself without requiring someone else's approval requires universal skills that can be applied to any situation.

Perhaps this should be in a new thread, but it seems to me that Melissa has learned something very important about how to be happy in the place she is in right now and I wanted to focus on this.

I think a lot of the squabbles and disagreements that happen on this board are because we are looking outward instead of inward at times.