What about the crossdressers

[Veronica27]

I am posting this thread in the M to F crossdressing forum, and not the events one, because it is about a crossdressing concern, and is not about any event per se.

I came across the following page while checking to see what the Southern Comfort Conference was all about. The conference purports to be for everyone on the Tg spectrum, from transexuals to crossdressers. However, I couldn't find anything aimed at crossdressers on the program. It is mostly all Ts issues, which more and more is the case at all similar events. My wife and I have not attended any for a while, as we find little of value for our situation, other than a nice meal or two. If anyone can spot anything directed toward your average mostly closetted crossdresser on the program, please yet us know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/99g2ik8xnawnpwo/scc2013_schedule%20master.pdf

Veronica

[Beth Kelly]

Veronica,
I completely agree I haven't been to any events or support groups yet one mostly because I'm just now consign to terms with this for myself but for the most part the seem not to be as geared toward what you descirbe so it makes me nervous about considering ever showing up because I wouldn't fit in. Thanks for the post.

Beth

[Angela Campbell]

You do not have to do any of the seminars to have fun there will be a lot to do. There are a few though on voice, Dr Dave is always good, line dance, footwear, shopping for your fem physique, There are quite a few good ones. Plus Agathas dinner theater, the movie tour, the marketplace, karaoke .......

What kind of things would you like to see?

[Jeannie]

I have wanted to go ever since I found out about it and I know that several members on this forum go almost every year. To the best of my knowledge I haven't read any bad things about it so some day maybe I'll try. For me the reason to go is to be able to dress everyday and not have to worry about being afraid. To be Jeannie for awhile would be fabulous but I like you really don't see anything that directly relates to crossdressers. I understand that their may be some booths around with things like wigs and makeup where you can get a make over, but I bet the line is out the door at that one. Not having ever been to one I really don't know anything about it except that it would be a chance to meet other people like us and to dress and go out without worry.

[Kate Simmons]

A lot of members swear by it but I've never found the need or desire to go myself. It may pose a problem for those of us on fixed incomes. It seems most events like this are geared towards taking advantage of the people going with a lot of convoluted gimmicks to get us to spend money. I probably wouldn't be interested in the seminars anyway, too high level. More power to our friends who like attending these types of events but not my personal cup of tea really. I'm more interested in the "grass roots" people level of things.:)

[Beverley Sims]

Like all conferences there are the peripheral events that fill in the gaps.
The big thing is, there are others like you there to mix with.

[CamillaCD]

I attended the SCC two years ago. Had to cancel last year due to too much workload. As the OP says I found that the majority of the seminars didn't cater to my needs as a non-TS. I did attend one, but that was it.

Like Ellen says, there are things to do besides the seminars. My big plan was to see the aquarium in downtown Atlanta. I was going by myself, but at the train station I met a GG (who also attended the SCC) who had the same plan. So we went together and we had a great time.

[Vickie_CDTV]

It is ironic, given that SCC was once thought to be a "crossdresser" event in years past. There are still plenty of parties and events to go to, and some people go and do not sign up for the actual convention and just meet others at the clubs and whatnot.

[melissakozak]

The whole "crossdressing" scene has changed RADICALLY over the last twenty years. These conventions have turned into "transition" conventions, which Triess, in its original form twenty plus years ago, would not have allowed at any of its functions for fear of freaking out a bunch of wives. Flash forward twenty years later and the gender police have been FIRED. Gender clinics are gone. Since the focus of these events has changed, it doesn't mean CDers are not welcome, but there is less geared toward CDing. You will have a wonderful time no matter what....and now that being a CD, transgender or TS is becoming more accepted, how you define yourself doesn't matter at these things....

[Lorileah]

....

What kind of things would you like to see?

and the complainers haven't answered.

Did you read the schedule? Just the first page "Passable, possible, plausible" That would be a CD subject (right out of the box. After that "discover your inner beauty...spiritual..." hmm I don't see anything about it limited to TSs. "Changing the sex of your voice" always a number one on the hit parade in the CD world. Homophobia in the transgender world....like it or not you fit in there. transgender prosthetics...how many threads are there on breast forms??? "On being feminine" again...hundreds of threads about walking, carriage, looks, moves..."understanding types of permanent hair removal." not just for TSs now is it? One for our dear Kimberly " A girl's guide to safe travel"

That is just page 1 of 40 some pages. So I am calling BS on this thread. Maybe they are things YOU don't want or need to know but they are not just TS issues. What do you want? How to stay in the closet? How to lie to your SO? Maybe fetish dressing? There are TS topics that may not concern the average CD but the majority from what I can see fits the whole spectrum.

(after reading the whole schedule, most of the Sat and Sunday are commercials for surgeons. I will say they probably paid a fee to be at the seminar [booth or other advertizing] and they were added to the speakers list...this is a profit making venture for SCC you know)

[donnatracey]

After perusing the agenda/schedule and list of speakers, etc I have to agree with Lorileah! That's a lot of information packed into just a few days; throw in the social aspects and I can't see how you could not have a good time. Even for someone like myself...who has no desire to transition, I can see the benefits of attending seminars just to learn from some of the many experts in these fields.

I guess I need to put the SCC on my bucket list while I have time!

Oh, and my hat's off to those who put this event together each year......:thumbsup:

[daviolin]

I want to go, in the worse way. But I just can't afford it. Boo Hoo. Daviolin

[Angela Campbell]

I know quite a few CD's who are going to be there. Where else will you get a chance to be dressed and out in public for almost an entire week surrounded by others who share the same desire? At a place very safe and filled with all kinds of activities. Then again if you are so far into the closet that you are afraid of being out where you can be seen, this is the perfect opportunity to get more comfortable with it.

[NicoleScott]

What do you want? How to stay in the closet? How to lie to your SO? Maybe fetish dressing? There are TS topics that may not concern the average CD but the majority from what I can see fits the whole spectrum.


I agree with Veronica - there's nothing there just for crossdressers. Anything presented that may have some interest to crossdressers is by coincidence. The programs are clearly aimed at the TS folks.
Staying in the closet, keeping CDing out of view from an unaccepting SO (which Lorileah calls lying) and dressing for pleasure ARE issues of interest to "just" crossdressers. But there seem to be more and more people who think those aren't legitimate CDing issues.
Good observation, Veronica.

[LilSissyStevie]

I think these seminars are mostly for the benefit of crossdressers. Think about it. The vast majority of the people that attend will not transition either fully or partially. They are "mere" CDs indulging in their TS fantasy by attending seminars about transition. So the program is appropriate entertainment for CDs of that type and it might even be of some benefit to those who really are TS.

[Sandieland]

I've been thinking that simply getting a few girlfriends together for 3 or 4 days in Las Vegas would be a blast. Shopping, clubbing, gaming, shows, and anything else that tickles our fancy would be awesome... dressing 24/7 when there. All at our own pace and at our own budget. I guess you could say it would be like a mini Diva Las Vegas.

[Veronica27]

Veronica,
I completely agree I haven't been to any events or support groups yet one mostly because I'm just now consign to terms with this for myself but for the most part the seem not to be as geared toward what you descirbe so it makes me nervous about considering ever showing up because I wouldn't fit in. Thanks for the post.

Beth

You are welcome Beth. As some others have said, events can provide a safe place for an otherwise closeted crossdresser to be in the public to some extent and meet others while crossdressed. My wife and I enjoyed the programs at the first few events we attended, but found that in recent years the seminars offered nothing of interest to us because of the TS slant. The ones I attended have been mostly smaller affairs with about 80 or so attending, including some spouses. Outside of the formal activities such as the dinners, seminars, and a few arranged tours, there were long periods of time when few people were around, as they mostly seem to attend in groups of friends from various support organizations, and they would use the time for shopping etc. with their friends. If you had a CD friend to attend with, it might make it easier to fill those time gaps. I had my wife with me, but she is nervous about stepping outside the venue by ourselves, and I am not sure I am ready for it either. You do get to chat with some very nice people from nervous newbies to the very confident dresser, however. I just miss the earlier events where there were couples meetings, spouse's get togethers, and speakers who dealt more with CD concerns such as family acceptance, the need to hide and so on. Events can be a valuable and fun experience despite the program shortcomings from a crossdressing perspective.



You do not have to do any of the seminars to have fun there will be a lot to do.

Nicely said. I agree fully that these events can be a lot of fun for someone who is otherwise closeted. I was just a bit disappointed that an event the size of SCC seems to overlook the very people who could probably benefit the most from such gatherings in terms of overcoming their inhibitions.


I have wanted to go ever since I found out about it and I know that several members on this forum go almost every year. To the best of my knowledge I haven't read any bad things about it so some day maybe I'll try. For me the reason to go is to be able to dress everyday and not have to worry about being afraid. To be Jeannie for awhile would be fabulous but I like you really don't see anything that directly relates to crossdressers. I understand that their may be some booths around with things like wigs and makeup where you can get a make over, but I bet the line is out the door at that one. Not having ever been to one I really don't know anything about it except that it would be a chance to meet other people like us and to dress and go out without worry.

If you get the opportunity, I would most definitely attend, even if nothing on the program interests you. If you know of any other crossdressers who could attend with you, it would make it much easier and a lot more fun. Perhaps, we on this forum, should do more in the way of setting up groups of lone but like minded people who could arrange to get together at the events to fill in those times when you are otherwise left on your own with nowhere to go. It's not always easy to make such arrangements at the event.


A lot of members swear by it but I've never found the need or desire to go myself. It may pose a problem for those of us on fixed incomes. It seems most events like this are geared towards taking advantage of the people going with a lot of convoluted gimmicks to get us to spend money. I probably wouldn't be interested in the seminars anyway, too high level. More power to our friends who like attending these types of events but not my personal cup of tea really. I'm more interested in the "grass roots" people level of things.:)


The expense of attending these affairs can exceed many people's budget. I haven't encountered too many gimmicks at the ones I attended but they were small affairs, and those added costs can usually be avoided. The one closest to me allows you to pick and choose which parts of the program you want to attend and pay for, and when other commitments in our life have interfered, we have simply attended one of the mid week dinners and skipped the rest of the event. I too would prefer the grass roots type of gathering, but have had no luck in finding anything close to that in my neck of the woods.


Like all conferences there are the peripheral events that fill in the gaps.
The big thing is, there are others like you there to mix with.

I would imagine that the bigger the event, the more likelihood of finding such things to do and people to mix with. It is partly why I have been saying that it might be wise to attend with friends if possible or make arrangements beforehand.


I attended the SCC two years ago. Had to cancel last year due to too much workload. As the OP says I found that the majority of the seminars didn't cater to my needs as a non-TS. I did attend one, but that was it.

Like Ellen says, there are things to do besides the seminars. My big plan was to see the aquarium in downtown Atlanta. I was going by myself, but at the train station I met a GG (who also attended the SCC) who had the same plan. So we went together and we had a great time.

You were very fortunate to find a friend who had the same plans. You must have had a great time. Were you crossdressed for the adventure? I don't think I would have had the fortitude to attempt it by myself in a strange city.


It is ironic, given that SCC was once thought to be a "crossdresser" event in years past. There are still plenty of parties and events to go to, and some people go and do not sign up for the actual convention and just meet others at the clubs and whatnot.

Most of these events did start as CD events. In fact most support groups began as such. If you know your way around, what you suggest could suffice for many and the thought of doing something like that has crossed my mind. One of the highlights of these events, however is the Saturday night banquet where many of us get our only meaningful opportunity to wear an evening gown, and that would be missed. It is why I like the idea of paying just for what you attend.


The whole "crossdressing" scene has changed RADICALLY over the last twenty years. These conventions have turned into "transition" conventions, which Triess, in its original form twenty plus years ago, would not have allowed at any of its functions for fear of freaking out a bunch of wives. Flash forward twenty years later and the gender police have been FIRED. Gender clinics are gone. Since the focus of these events has changed, it doesn't mean CDers are not welcome, but there is less geared toward CDing. You will have a wonderful time no matter what....and now that being a CD, transgender or TS is becoming more accepted, how you define yourself doesn't matter at these things....

I know from personal experience that the emphasis on transition still freaks out some of the wives, as it can create feelings of uncertainty about their own situation. Apart from that, I agree that you can have a great time.

Veronica

[NathalieX66]

I've been thinking that simply getting a few girlfriends together for 3 or 4 days in Las Vegas would be a blast. Shopping, clubbing, gaming, shows, and anything else that tickles our fancy would be awesome... dressing 24/7 when there. All at our own pace and at our own budget. I guess you could say it would be like a mini Diva Las Vegas.

SCC is no mini-Diva Las Vegas. it's pretty big.
I agree with Veronica to an extent about the event seminars leaning more towards TS, but when I went two years ago, I went to one seminar about Japanese Lolita costumes, and other about finding balance, which is Jeaneane Ruhsam , who helps put on the Keystone Conference in Pennsylvania.
The vendors there sell a lot of of wigs, forms, makeup which is more suited towards CD'ers.

If you are a first-timer, or a closeter, you will still feel not left out. The Saturday night gala is always the main dress up affair. ....who doesn't like that?! :battingeyelashes:

[CamillaCD]

To answer Veronica :-)

207147

[Jason+]

Veronica,

Granted I am not the "typical" cross dresser. Most of the events in their FAQ's make me believe I would not be welcome and would detract from what they are trying to accomplish. Unfortunately I think for your question the trouble is the closeted part. Seminars on voice training, deportment and all of that are less pertinent if you are not going out in public or trying to blend at least. The seminars on "Balance in the Binary: Both/And, not Either/Or" and "Defending Against TSTG Pseudoscience" stood out as particularly relevant even to almost a CD like me. Fantasia Fair so far has seemed like the best shot from what I have read although I have not yet attended. http://www.fantasiafair.org/

[Lorileah]

Veronica,
I completely agree I haven't been to any events or support groups yet one mostly because I'm just now consign to terms with this for myself but for the most part the seem not to be as geared toward what you descirbe so it makes me nervous about considering ever showing up because I wouldn't fit in. Thanks for the post.

Beth

why wouldn't you fit in? This is sort of like saying I wouldn't like broccoli even though I have never tasted it. there are hundreds of people at these conventions, all walks of the spectrum. It is your chance to see you are not alone. But you won't know if you don't try.


I agree with Veronica - there's nothing there just for crossdressers. Anything presented that may have some interest to crossdressers is by coincidence. The programs are clearly aimed at the TS folks.
Staying in the closet, keeping CDing out of view from an unaccepting SO (which Lorileah calls lying) and dressing for pleasure ARE issues of interest to "just" crossdressers. But there seem to be more and more people who think those aren't legitimate CDing issues.
Good observation, Veronica.

So that is what kind of seminars you would want. How to stay closeted. How to keep your SO from finding the stuff you spent a lot of money on and don't tell her about. How to swear that the clothes she found in the garage came from outer space. How to have a secret life away from your SO so she cannot decide for herself if she wants to be in the relationship (selfish lying). How to not stand up for what you are because you are afraid they rest of the world will not like who you are.

How to walk, talk, move, dress, what to use for prosthetics, makeup tips...coincidental CD topics aimed at the TSs really... C'mon. Although I have never been to SCC, I know these types of conventions. It isn't just the seminars that they do. They have booths where demonstrations are given. They have entertainment. They have get togethers. They have meet and greets and dinners. They are social and educational.

So again, I ask, what would be of interest to a CD that they don't address? Going out or not going out (as Nicole noted)? Communicating with your SO? (since most CDs there are probably out and their spouses know anyway, would these be informative?) What? Fill in 3 days with CD relevant (only) subject matter. I will guess that the SCC committees would be very interested in your input. But since you don't want to go out anyway...how can they have the seminars? Let's hear what KIND of talks would be of interest for the CD community.

Don't complain about the problem unless you can part of the solution

[Veronica27]

and the complainers haven't answered.

Did you read the schedule? Just the first page "Passable, possible, plausible" That would be a CD subject (right out of the box. After that "discover your inner beauty...spiritual..." hmm I don't see anything about it limited to TSs. "Changing the sex of your voice" always a number one on the hit parade in the CD world. Homophobia in the transgender world....like it or not you fit in there. transgender prosthetics...how many threads are there on breast forms??? "On being feminine" again...hundreds of threads about walking, carriage, looks, moves..."understanding types of permanent hair removal." not just for TSs now is it? One for our dear Kimberly " A girl's guide to safe travel"



Where do I begin? The first three pages are the schedule of seminars, while the remaining 43 pages provide a description of each.


Passable, possible, plausible by Emily Ashcroft
This is not a CD subject but is very TG and is described as:


Being transgendered is about discovering yourself all over again and learning to accept the 'new' you. This seminar deals with achieving acceptance through the process of self discovery. We will discuss the physical, mental and emotional aspects of your personal being and using this understanding to gain self acceptance. We will review established definitions of various transgendered conditions to help in understanding ourselves better. We will also explore gaining acceptance in public by developing an understanding of your personal goals and building the self confidence necessary to achieve them. We will also briefly discuss personality types and how they help in understanding ourselves and establishing our place in society.
Emily Ashcroft is a transgender person who first discovered her feminine side at the age of five, and has been living in a dual gender role ever since. Having dealt with almost every possible situation that can be faced in life, both good and bad she has a unique perspective on what it takes to accept yourself, be accepted by others and become a humanitarian. She travels internationally for business and has become an advocate for Humanitarian Issues across the globe. She is an accomplished author and frequent speaker to groups seeking to develop a more humanitarian understanding and approach to life and living, including; college classes, businesses, and conferences. She was a keynote speaker at the Global Humanitarian Summit and developed the ‘Helping Humans Get Along with Humans’ session for the Summit addressing current Humanitarian issues and concerns around the world.


discover your inner beauty through your spiritual center In layman's terms, this is a non-denominational religious and spiritual lecture about having a spiritual source in our lives and this spiritual power brings Inner strength which creates inner beauty. Nothing about CD TG or TS.


Changing the sex of your voice
Most of the CD's I have met and conversed with online are not concerned about their voice. They would rather use their natural voice than attempt to affect a phony female one.


Homophobia in the transgender world....like it or not you fit in there
Who is the "you" in that statement? The description of this seminar begins as follows:

"Homophobia exists in abundance in the Trans* community"

That is a very loaded statement. As a crossdresser I do not consider myself to be a part of a so-called "trans" community. Also, I have yet to meet a homophobic crossdresser. I have known, worked with and am related to a great many homosexual individuals both male and female and get along fine with them all. In fact I prefer them to many of the "straight" people I know. I question whether this is an appropriate topic at a CD/TG/TS convention. What about dealing with "transphobia"? That would be more logical. The opening sentence in this description is insulting at best.


transgender prosthetics...how many threads are there on breast forms???

The first two sentences say it all.

This seminar focuses on prosthetics for the transgender person. Sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is a big decision; however, there are alternatives that will allow the transgender person to experience life as a woman without the worry of making a mistake."

Sure, crossdressers are interested in breast forms, hip forms and so on, but that is not the intent of this seminar.


"On being feminine" again...hundreds of threads about walking, carriage, looks, moves..."

Hurray, you found one. I thought there must be something. The emphasis appears to be more on fashion from the cave man era to the present, but probably also touches on the other things you mentioned. This could be of interest to anyone, regardless of how they like to dress.


..."understanding types of permanent hair removal." not just for TSs now is it?

It is very definitely mostly for the TS's and very advanced TG's. Most crossdressers do not want to give up their facial hair as it is a part of who they are; i.e. a man.


A girl's guide to safe travel

Perhaps this might be of interest to some CD's but it sounds quite advanced for the average CD whose travelling might just be to the mall, or to the support group meeting in a nearby town.

Nicole has addressed most of the possible CD concerns you questioned so there is no need to elaborate further. The point of the thread was to point out how such events have become geared almost solely toward TS issues, and CD's and even some TG's are relegated to finding their own amusement and educational material. This is not BS, as these events often provide the only source of real life crossdressing contact for many CD's.

Veronica

[NicoleScott]

So that is what kind of seminars you would want. How to stay closeted. How to keep your SO from finding the stuff you spent a lot of money on and don't tell her about. How to swear that the clothes she found in the garage came from outer space. How to have a secret life away from your SO so she cannot decide for herself if she wants to be in the relationship (selfish lying). How to not stand up for what you are because you are afraid they rest of the world will not like who you are.


Thanks for illustrating that you are one of those people who thinks there's only one legitimate way to CD, and it's not doing so secretly, and so there's no need to address the concerns of the closeted. I would hope that you could understand that CDers aren't looking for ways to lie and cheat, but I guess I overestimated you.
Saying that there MIGHT be something of interest to CDers seems to be a common excuse to cater to the TS folks in a CDer setting.
You can like or dislike the programs scheduled, but Veronica's observation that it's geared to the transition-minded is correct.

[Angela Campbell]

I would guess that they choose the seminars they have by how many have attended others that are similar in the past, and who is signing up to give one. It may be they think it is unlikely that a very closeted and secretive cd would attend such a public affair so they tend not to have much calling for some of the things you are looking for. I do not know why they plan what they did it is only a guess.

But like I said there is something there for you, a delightful time. They do have a vendors area which will have plenty you would be interested in, and all the rest. So there is something there for all of us. As I have said I know several cd's who have gone every year for a long time and will go this year. More than a dozen from my local tri ess chapter and some of the spouses.

Perhaps you should contact the promoters of SCC and tell them what you would like to see covered. I am sure they would be interested.

[Veronica27]

First of all I would like to thank everyone for their insightful comments, including Lorileah and anyone else I have not addressed directly. There were some great thoughts and suggestions from everyone.


I think these seminars are mostly for the benefit of crossdressers. Think about it. The vast majority of the people that attend will not transition either fully or partially. They are "mere" CDs indulging in their TS fantasy by attending seminars about transition. So the program is appropriate entertainment for CDs of that type and it might even be of some benefit to those who really are TS].

I think the seminars are for the benefit of those who are contemplating transition and thus want information. I can't see this encompassing many crossdressers, fantasy or otherwise, but rather the more advanced transgenders. Most post ops have likely dealt with many of these issues.


I've been thinking that simply getting a few girlfriends together for 3 or 4 days in Las Vegas would be a blast. Shopping, clubbing, gaming, shows, and anything else that tickles our fancy would be awesome... dressing 24/7 when there. All at our own pace and at our own budget. I guess you could say it would be like a mini Diva Las Vegas.

I'm with you on this one, not just Las Vegas, but everywhere. One problem I see is that trying to attract locals in your area through the internet seems to attract people looking for things other than what the average crossdresser is seeking.


.

If you are a first-timer, or a closeter, you will still feel not left out. The Saturday night gala is always the main dress up affair. ....who doesn't like that?! :battingeyelashes:

At a very large gathering, it is sometimes difficult connecting with others who share our own desires and interests, crossdressing and otherwise, because of the wide variety of individuals present. At some events, there are "Big Sisters" available to help with getting out and around which in itself is a good thing, but they are not likely to connect as crossdressing friends because of the disparity in how open both parties are. Many here have mentioned all the fun things to do to fill the time, and I agree, but unless you are accompanied by a friend, or make a connection at the event, this can be overwhelming for a novice or a closeted CD. One of the advantages of seminars aimed at CD's is that they bring a group of relatively like minded people together increasing the possibility of making good connections. From your experience, does SCC have any facilities where novice or closeted CD's can gather to plan activities and make friends, whether seminars or otherwise. The event I have attended has started a 5 minute speed dating session, which I have not been able to attend, but I have not heard whether that has been successful, or was simply a way of introducing attendees to each other.


To answer Veronica :-)



That is a perfect outfit for blending in. You look great, and nobody around you appears to be doing a double take behind your back. I zoomed in to 400% without losing too much clarity, and you still looked great. By the way, is that a police cruiser in the right background?


Veronica,

Granted I am not the "typical" cross dresser. Most of the events in their FAQ's make me believe I would not be welcome and would detract from what they are trying to accomplish. Unfortunately I think for your question the trouble is the closeted part. Seminars on voice training, deportment and all of that are less pertinent if you are not going out in public or trying to blend at least. The seminars on "Balance in the Binary: Both/And, not Either/Or" and "Defending Against TSTG Pseudoscience" stood out as particularly relevant even to almost a CD like me. Fantasia Fair so far has seemed like the best shot from what I have read although I have not yet attended. http://www.fantasiafair.org/

None of us are "typical", and I like it that way because I am "me". If SCC is what they claim it to be, you should and probably would be welcome. After checking your website I would agree that the topics you mentioned would be of interest to you. At my age (74), I have tired of reading about such things, and am just anxious to enjoy the life I have left, without caring too much about what others think except for my family and friends. To me, gender is an over-rated concept, as it is largely a cultural and social construct with a bit of hormonal and brain differential influence thrown in. In that context transgender is meaningless. Everyone is transgender to some extent, except that our society attempts to force males to suppress all of what it calls femininity.


Thanks for illustrating that you are one of those people who thinks there's only one legitimate way to CD, and it's not doing so secretly, and so there's no need to address the concerns of the closeted. I would hope that you could understand that CDers aren't looking for ways to lie and cheat, but I guess I overestimated you.
Saying that there MIGHT be something of interest to CDers seems to be a common excuse to cater to the TS folks in a CDer setting.
You can like or dislike the programs scheduled, but Veronica's observation that it's geared to the transition-minded is correct.

I view Lorileah's comments as illustrating what I described in another thread as the marginalizng of crossdressers. As a result of their own circumstances and desires these people have managed to be more open and out in the world, and tend to forget any apprehensions they once had. To them a crossdresser's concerns are invalid and are often swept away from the conversation by statements like "just do it", "it's not your problem, it's theirs" and so on. Our limitations, needs, desires, personal circumstances, personalities and overall situation is our own and unique. Well intentioned tips and advice can be valuable, but sarcastic put downs help nobody.


I would guess that they choose the seminars they have by how many have attended others that are similar in the past, and who is signing up to give one. It may be they think it is unlikely that a very closeted and secretive cd would attend such a public affair so they tend not to have much calling for some of the things you are looking for. I do not know why they plan what they did it is only a guess.

But like I said there is something there for you, a delightful time. They do have a vendors area which will have plenty you would be interested in, and all the rest. So there is something there for all of us. As I have said I know several cd's who have gone every year for a long time and will go this year. More than a dozen from my local tri ess chapter and some of the spouses.

Perhaps you should contact the promoters of SCC and tell them what you would like to see covered. I am sure they would be interested.

It does appear to be something like Marketing 101. It would be interesting to know if their policy is contributing to fewer closeted crossdressers venturing to the event, or the result of their reluctance. In one sense, you would think that it should be their policy to encourage a coming out to the event as much as possible. In any event, I have appreciated reading your comments.

Veronica

[Lorileah]

Thanks for illustrating that you are one of those people who thinks there's only one legitimate way to CD, and it's not doing so secretly, and so there's no need to address the concerns of the closeted. I would hope that you could understand that CDers aren't looking for ways to lie and cheat, but I guess I overestimated you. You are putting your own spin on what I say. Look at it this way. SCC is a for profit organization. Who goes to these? Open and out CDs and TSs. Who stays home and complains> Closeted CDs. Who pays for lets say makeovers and clothing from the people who pay to have booths at said convention? open CDs and TSs. Who isn't there because they don't want to be seen or they feel they won't fit in? Closeted CDs. Who goes to the cotillion? Open CDs and TSs. Who stays home? Closeted CDs. Kind get the idea here?

There are many fetish get togethers throughout the US on a routine basis (This weekend we have Thunder in the Mountains here) where you can dress up in fetish wear, look as sl*tty as you want, wear over the top make up, play sissy, maid, prostitute, whatever. Have sexual encounters (or I should say set them up). Who goes to these. Open fetish dressers. Who stays home closeted fetish dressers. They don't have too many how to choose a surgeon seminars at these venues but seems it would be the perfect place for people who only dress for sexual reasons..no? (BTW my"family" is there this weekend. So I know what goes on). Again this is a profit making event...so they cater to those who like to buy leather, or sissy, or hooker type clothing.

I don't get the collateral interest thing at all. You must know that 90% of the TSs were a) closeted CDs (often sexual fetish) who became b) lets drive at three AM or walk around the block CDs who became c) I under dress all the time CDs who became d) I am going to go to a gay bar CD, who became e) I am going to the mall (or drive thru or dinner) CD. So all the collateral seminars (ie the how to talk, move, put on make up,buy breast forms, smoke like a girl) seminars would not be what they are looking for. They would be looking for the surgery, side effect (or normal effects) of hormones. One thing that the CDs won't go to usually are the "civil rights" seminars...because hey..you are only presenting "sometimes" and getting a job or using a public facility won't ever effect you. But in truth those seminars are for all TGs

I have an easy remedy for this. Closeted CDs and CDs who only dress for fetish reasons will stay home. Those who are not out and active in the TG community will stay home. I doubt SCC will miss them because..hey they would not be out and spending money. The rest the TG community will miss them because they won't get to meet those who stay home. You get to meet some wonderful people when you come out

Saying that there MIGHT be something of interest to CDers seems to be a common excuse to cater to the TS folks in a CDer setting. THAT I will call BS on again. You make your own decisions on what might be important in interesting. By limiting yourself because you THINK you won't be interested? I am so tired of the Us Vs Them mentality. When will you see we are all on the same ride? You want excuses? look at your own life. You make the excuse you won't like it with out trying it.




I view Lorileah's comments as illustrating what I described in another thread as the marginalizng of crossdressers. As a result of their own circumstances and desires these people have managed to be more open and out in the world, and tend to forget any apprehensions they once had. To them a crossdresser's concerns are invalid and are often swept away from the conversation by statements like "just do it", "it's not your problem, it's theirs" and so on. Our limitations, needs, desires, personal circumstances, personalities and overall situation is our own and unique. Well intentioned tips and advice can be valuable, but sarcastic put downs help nobody.

Again, you are the ones putting yourselves on the margin. No one here is saying you cannot do what you do. No one is saying what you are doing in incorrect or less than what others are doing. You are the one drawing lines and demarcations. How are you being marginalized? Because they don't have an "what are you wearing today?" seminar? Because they don't have a how to walk in 8" platforms seminar? How? You never have said what would be of interest to the "marginalized" CD? How can you have a seminar about something when the people who are being targeted aren't there?

SCC is so much more than class rooms. It is experience. Maybe if you experienced the whole thing you would see that there is so much more to the world? There are vendors who would be happy to share their knowledge with you. There are social groups who would be very glad to have you come to a meeting. There are PEOPLE who when you go to lunch or to a social event would be glad to talk to you and get to know you. How is this marginalization? We create our own bubble. We push the limits of our own bubble. You feel marginalized because you put yourself in that bubble. This is an incredible world we live in.

At the end of every show (seminar, convention whatever) they ask "what can we do next time that you would want to see or hear?" So far I have only seen two suggestions for the "CDs". Want to bet at the end pf last year's convention they got hundreds of "I would like to hear from a surgeon".

If you don't go don't complain. Again, you think there is a problem...suggest a solution. You won't get anywhere hiding in the dark

[Veronica27]

If you don't go don't complain. Again, you think there is a problem...suggest a solution. You won't get anywhere hiding in the dark

The following link is to the website of C.H.I.C.

http://www.chicladies.org/chichandbook.html

Part one of that page itemizes the many concerns that crossdressers may face, and provides plenty of inspiration for developing seminars dealing with those concerns. Much of what you are saying in your posts is correct, but you have a very condescending and confrontational manner of presenting it which is the very thing that many crossdressers are sensing from the community as a whole and are beginning to refer to in threads such as this one. It does not come across as projecting a very feminine image.

Veronica

[Lorileah]

Part one of that page itemizes the many concerns that crossdressers may face, and provides plenty of inspiration for developing seminars dealing with those concerns. all of which also would be important to TSs. So we would be right back at the same argument that it was coincidental.
Much of what you are saying in your posts is correct, but you have a very condescending and confrontational manner of presenting it which is the very thing that many crossdressers are sensing from the community as a whole and are beginning to refer to in threads such as this one. It does not come across as projecting a very feminine image.


So feminine is not stating how you see things? We won't argue what is feminine and what isn't. That would be a seminar in itself. I am owning the confrontational because the statement of CDs vs TSs is in my opinion confrontational to start with. When someone starts a thread that immediately goes to a why do "they get something" and "we don't" it is already confrontational.
We should be on the same team, yet some here seem to want to play a game apart

[Veronica27]

all of which also would be important to TSs. So we would be right back at the same argument that it was coincidental.

So feminine is not stating how you see things? We won't argue what is feminine and what isn't. That would be a seminar in itself. I am owning the confrontational because the statement of CDs vs TSs is in my opinion confrontational to start with. When someone starts a thread that immediately goes to a why do "they get something" and "we don't" it is already confrontational.
We should be on the same team, yet some here seem to want to play a game apart

The title of the thread is the grabber. A good one catches people's attention and gets them to read the article or post. In this case, it could mean a variety of things, so you open it to find out. It certainly did not imply any "why them and not us" sort of childish lament. The body of the post simply states an observation about the program for an event. Nowhere did I ask "why" or be confrontational. I asked if anyone found anything to let us know. (apologies for the typo that said "yet us know")

You were the only responder that employed sarcasm, and were thus the one who initiated any confrontation. I felt that there were some excellent replies, mostly agreeing about the bulk of the program being aimed at TS, but also pointing out the tremendous value of such events for crossdressers as well in the social aspects.

My reference to femininity referred to your manner of stating your opinion, not the jist of your opinion, as you have implied. I am not making any judgments about CD vs TS, but simply recognizing that there are differences between the two. Being TS is something that can not be hidden from family and so on, unless you distance yourself completely from them. Secrecy is often the most important requirement of a CD. I realize that some TS's began their journey by crossdressing, but that does not mean that this is the eventual outcome for all crossdressers. We are all unique individuals, and I see little value in attempting to deny our individuality by trying to paint us all one colour. That is rather Orwellian.

Veronica