Are YOU giving CDers a bad name? THREE Qs.

[Wildaboutheels]

There are quite a few that water here that feel NONE of "us" males should be seen out in public...

UNLESS we go all out. All out as in wigs, forms, hair, makeup, padding, dressing for the occasion, dressing to "blend", getting the walk and the talk down and probably perfume, lipstick and who knows what else I may have left out? And also thoughts along the line that any male failing to do so, "is making all CDers look bad" or something along those lines.

Q # 1] [For any of you that shop en femme OR even "partially" dressed as in making NO attempt whatsoever to "pass".] Does your "mindset" change AT ALL [regardless of which store you are shopping at or what you are shopping for] simply because of what clothes you are wearing? In other words, do you ACT any differently IF you are wearing any female clothing items?

Q # 2] Do you have any idea at all of what a "suspicious" looking shopper might look like? Or a "suspicious" looking person, anywhere?

Q # 3] Would you be OK, with IF... every single time you went to your fave store, the prices had gone up another dollar or two? The tradeoff, would be that you would NEVER have to be concerned that a HUMAN might be watching YOU! That you were ONLY being watched by all the security cameras.

The Walmart manager thread gives every indication that...

[dragdoll]

There are quite a few that water here that feel NONE of "us" males should be seen out in public...

Those people usually dress like Mrs. Doubtfire, so who cares what they think.

[mikiSJ]

I think you missed the point of the 'Walmart' post.

[Sandieland]

I can only figure that this thread is about another thread I posted. And it's really kind of insulting. 1. When I'm shopping I'm thinking about what I need to buy. Period. However, this does not mean that I am empty-headed and not aware of my environment and the people around me. In other words, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. 2. You have to be kidding that any adult who doesn't have the normal radar that comes with experience, then you should be prepared for the worst. I stopped NOT being aware (suspicious) of certain types the day two guys drove up behind me and held a gun to my head. That day I learned the importance of assigning suspicious behavior when you see it. Yes, you can determine if someone is "suspicious" looking, and act accordingly. They may be harmless, but remember the old saying "discretion is the better part of valor". 3. You think defending Walmart gives you the moral high ground? That I'm stupid? That none of us knows the losses businesses take every year? How necessary "loss prevention" is? And by the way, if the person I mentioned in my other thread was a "loss prevention" person, he was doing a really poor job to have been noticed so easily by me, unless that is SOP...staring at someone from about 20 feet away for 10 minutes or more (oh, and I am sorry I did not mention he was wearing a name tag...I didn't know I was going to be interrogated. Do loss prevention people wear name tags?).

[Princess Grandpa]

I have only gone out amongst the general public en femme once. I didn't come close to achieving any of the things mentioned. No wait, my make up was beautifully done thanks to Julie. When we go shopping I'm either in my dude clothes, or more likely comfortable ladies wear with no wig or make up.

Am I making all CD's look bad? I never really thought about it. I'm not really interested being a political statement. I'm just trying to explore a long repressed aspect of myself.

When I consider some of the misconceptions and stereo types about us that are believed by even the most tolerant and accepting people out there, I have to wonder how I could really make us look worse.

Hug
Rita

[Rebecca Watson]

Q # 1] [For any of you that shop en femme OR even "partially" dressed as in making NO attempt whatsoever to "pass".] Does your "mindset" change AT ALL [regardless of which store you are shopping at or what you are shopping for] simply because of what clothes you are wearing? In other words, do you ACT any differently IF you are wearing any female clothing items?

I certainly wouldn't go "half out" (e.g. wearing a skirt) as I don't think it looks good on me personally (I'm certainly not going to judge others for doing so, however). Although, I do sometimes go around with, say, girly nail polish on even in guy mode (and I recently had my ears pierced, with pink studs). A perceptive enough person can work out that gender is not so black-and-white for me.

I shop en femme regularly. I'm not really sure that it's my mindset that changes; there are practical reasons for shopping en femme. E.g. everyone knows what I'm shopping for is for me, that I'm actively trying to look like a female, and have some idea of what kind of look I'm going for. I particularly enjoy when the sales assistant suggests some article of clothing, and there's no question whatsoever that it's female clothing.

I think shopping en femme might also make the other female customers feel at ease (vs. shopping in guy mode). I think most of them don't pay close enough attention to even notice there's something going on behind the scenes. If they do notice, they seem to understand that I'm not there for some bizarre fetish thing which would not be apparent in guy mode.

Further, there's certain things I simply wouldn't do in guy mode. I'm certainly not going to try on clothes, strut my stuff, and ask "what should I match this with?" in guy mode. I have no hesitation in girl mode. So, I guess I generally enjoy shopping more in girl mode.

(I don't really have a decent answer to Q's 2. or 3., so I'll leave them alone.)

- Becky

[SharonDD]

The thing I find funny here is that we all agree that society tries to dictate who we are and what we do, act, and say. I dress how I feel and for me only! GG wear what they want whenever they want. Your asking about an image... imagine seeing me being me, an original thought we all had once. The thing is I will never be anyone else but me and I am happy with that. It doesn't matter if I chose to full out CD, half dress or underdress get a gallon of milk. Society can have their rules and anyone else for that manner. Life is a lot simpler just taking care of me and dressing to please this CDer.

[Erica Marie]

Not sure where this is going and why. But I dont think there is a cd, tg, ts or gg handbook. If there is I havent gotten my copy yet. If we all dressed the way it made us comfortable there would be no "rules" so as far as the norm.

[~Joanne~]

Are YOU giving CDers a bad name?

Not by staying in the house I'm not LOL then again, going out I wouldn't either ;)

wait, what was the question again? lol

[celeste26]

Call me naive but I thought that all the cameras surrounding Walmart were for that purpose and the tags inside the packages let off alarms if they weren't paid for. I cant ever recall seeing any "loss prevention personnel" at Walmart so for me they must have been doing their jobs right.

[Wildaboutheels]

WHY do you think JD public is watching YOU?

Any easier or better?

Do you think if you are dressed completely male, shopping the produce section in the supermarket, JD public is STILL watching you? Or watching you as hard?

Isn't ANYone who feels they are being watched, regardless of how they are dressed, going to look or act "suspicious?

[Jodie_Lynn]

Isn't ANYone who feels they are being watched, regardless of how they are dressed, going to look or act "suspicious?


Uhm, No. Unless, of course, one wants to play games with the security personnel manning the monitors. We live in a society where we are monitored, from traffic cams to the random security cam. It is a sad fact of life. And to purposely act suspicious, when one has no reason to, smacks of childish hooliganism to me.

But who am I? Some people juggle baby geese.

[Ressie]

Honey I make most CDs look bad because I'm soooo hot! ............not :)

[Nikki A.]

Dressed or not, why should I need someone watching me when I am shopping in the woman's dept. Do they watch single women in the mens department.
Yes I agree that loss prevention is important, but don't make it obvious.

[vikki2020]

Just the opposite for me--lately. I'm getting out almost every day now--because I've started dressing in a very casual mode. Something I wouldn't have done last year! Still,--nice outfits--shorts, summer top, and flats, with just a bit of make-up. Yes, it's obvious that I'm not a GG, but, funny thing---I'm getting a fantastic response from everyone I come in contact with. People seem to be genuinely happy for me, seeing I'm happy! I get treated like family at the stores now,lol! My hair is long enough to ditch the wigs, and it's "working" better than ever!

[Lynn Marie]

Why is it that everytime I read one of your dozens of thread starts, I get the feeling you're just trying to start a fight?

[Sister Rachel]

"Are you giving CDers a bad name?"

Oooooooooooooooh Yessssssssssssssssss!! .. I'm a VERY bad person, you see .. :lol2:

[NathalieX66]

Answer to all three: no, no, and no.

FYI, when I went to Macy's, dressed as a guy, they did not permit to use the womens' fitting rooms when I asked to try on a dress. I got turned down.
When I'm dressed fully en femme at Macy's or any store, I get Carte Blanche to the fitting rooms......happens every time, all the time.

That's just the way it is.

Okay, maybe I'm short (5'6"), but I never had a problem when in girl mode.

[Debglam]

It seems like there are a couple of things going on here, the questions above and an earlier Walmart post. Here are my two cents.

Walmart sucks! SUCKS! (For MANY reasons IMHO!) Look, if it is the only game in town where you are, then ya have to shop where you have to shop. But. . . If you are going to shop in a store that attracts the least common denominator then that is the kind of service that you get. Why is there a "People of Walmart" FB page??? With that kind of customer OF COURSE they are going to have loss prevention people blatantly following you around! No matter what you look like BTW.

I was in Macy's the other day and the SA asked me if she could open a dressing room for me. I was in Kohl's and the cashier came running out of the store after me (almost gave me a heart attack) because she forgot to put my earrings in the bag. I'm not passing. I show a male ID when I check out. Generally speaking, you are not going to be treated discourteously when you shop in places that respect their customers and aren't trying to be the cheapest store on the block. Hell, I shop in Target, which is pretty inexpensive and don't have any problems because their corporate culture is more customer friendly. Anyway. . .

I don't care how someone appears if they truly feel they are presenting themselves in the best way possible. People dressing androgynously, genderqueer, gender bending, etc. is all cool with me if that is what they are trying to portray to the world. If you are trying to present as the opposite sex and doing the best you can with the cards you were dealt, then more power to you sister and brother!!!!

BUT!!!!! If you are a CD or trans or whatever and are just plain lazy or a slob, there is a problem. You are acting as a representative whether you know it or not of a group of people, the vast majority who are struggling to be taken seriously as women and men. By looking like crap because you don't feel like putting in the effort to look your best, you DO make the rest of us look bad. You are doing the community a disservice.

Debby (You asked. . .:devil:)

[Jason+]

Hopefully I am giving us a positive image by the way I act and conduct myself as much by what I am wearing.


I don't act any any differently in a skirt or dress than I do in pants other than the required decorum of keeping private things private.

That's going to be subjective and hard to pin down.

We already bear the costs caused by dishonest people both in prices and increased surveillance.



I'm getting a fantastic response from everyone I come in contact with. People seem to be genuinely happy for me, seeing I'm happy! I get treated like family at the stores now,lol!

As long as I have been polite and pleasant to be around I have been well received in public as well. Store associates have been very nice and other people in stores who were just other patrons have been as well. I get the awkward eye now and then too but it's definitely in the minority.


Why is it that everytime I read one of your dozens of thread starts, I get the feeling you're just trying to start a fight?

It's a hot button question no matter how you ask it. My interpretation was that this isn't a pot stirring thread. I could be biased as well though. :)


Answer to all three: no, no, and no.

FYI, when I went to Macy's, dressed as a guy, they did not permit to use the womens' fitting rooms when I asked to try on a dress. I got turned down.
When I'm dressed fully en femme at Macy's or any store, I get Carte Blanche to the fitting rooms......happens every time, all the time.

That's just the way it is.

Okay, maybe I'm short (5'6"), but I never had a problem when in girl mode.

Other than Walmart I've just asked when I wanted to try something on. I've had to take a women's item to the men's side more than once but since I'm a man I don't see that as an issue. The last time I went to The Avenue to shop I went in with a list from their web site just to look at and see if I wanted them in person as much. The SA promptly started me a room and made some suggestions to go with what I had come to see.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Oh I wish there was a "like" button on this forum! What Debglam said is so true!

We are always a representative of something at all times. Whether its your day job (you represent your trade, your company, your product), as a member of your social group (Church, or other organization), or even your ethnic or social/demographic group! It behooves us to act and appear at our best because often times, people do not see an individual, but an icon of a group.

[suzanne]

This may get a lot of people in this forum P.O.'d, but my preferred presentation mode is as a "dude in as dress". My reasoning is that, with my size (6 ft 2, 290 lbs) if I do the whole wig, makeup and boobs thing, the result is just a poor caricature of a woman, which I refer to as a drag queen. There is no passing or blending in and it would attract more negative attention than what I do . When I go out dressed, of course the initial reaction, if there is one, will be something like "What the **** is he wearing?" But I'm hoping that if they take the time to look objectively, their next reaction will be "You know, that outfit actually works". Meanwhile, my demeanor is just plain, matter of fact. I'm just being me going about my business with nothing to hide. If it actually works out that way, I think I'm doing more to help the cause of gaining acceptance for crossdressing, rather than hurt it.

[I Am Paula]

1) Yes, I act like a criminal, or some kind of perv.
2) Suspicious person! There all suspicious. That's why I wear my tin foil hat.
3) I wish someone was watching. I can never get any help in stores anymore. Dept stores have zero staff, and mall stores are staffed by teenagers on the phone.

[Wildaboutheels]

It's nice to see that at least some folks GET IT. It's not what we wear while out in public, it's how we act and TREAT people. Dress in the "correct" clothes for one's [apparent] gender and treat people badly or look guilty or act suspiciously, you are likely to have unpleasant experiences. Dress in the "wrong" clothes and act normally and treat people right and you are far less likely to have unpleasant experiences. While in the SAFETY of a store, looking around to note who MIGHT be watching you IS NOT acting normally.

Surely no one is going to CLAIM that they do that when fully dressed as a guy while IN a store.

Are they?

[UNDERDRESSER]

It's nice to see that at least some folks GET IT. It's not what we wear while out in public, it's how we act and TREAT people. Dress in the "correct" clothes for one's [apparent] gender and treat people badly or look guilty or act suspiciously, you are likely to have unpleasant experiences. Dress in the "wrong" clothes and act normally and treat people right and you are far less likely to have unpleasant experiences. While in the SAFETY of a store, looking around to note who MIGHT be watching you IS NOT acting normally.

Surely no one is going to CLAIM that they do that when fully dressed as a guy while IN a store.

Are they?Not sure what you're getting at here. I shop for clothes, ( all clothes ) as a man. I'm not likely to ever try to pass. I've bought, and tried on, skirts at a thrift store. As far as I could tell, nobody noticed. I admit the first time I felt a little self conscious, but I soon got over that. I was in one local store a few days ago, and spent quite some time going down the skirt rack, and studied, and measured several items. Again, nobody paid attention that I noticed. ( wasn't looking )

I work retail, and mangers will tell you, best way to avoid theft, great customer service. Approach everyone, continually ask if people need help, ( not the same person over and over ) If I saw someone suspicious, I would approach and see if they needed help, if they refused help, or in some way twanged my instincts, I would call senior staff, and they would come through, and do the same thing. We wouldn't lurk in the distance, but would find some way to be around the customer if we felt they were up to no good. As for men trying on female clothing, I've often suggested guys try on the female version if some aspect of the fit might make sense, many women buy the guys stuff, if they have extra long legs or some other size issue.

The sentence highlighted in red above seems contradictory, is that what you meant to say?

[Jenessa]

Yes, yes, no.





The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 15 characters.

[Leona]

Surely no one is going to CLAIM that they do that when fully dressed as a guy while IN a store.


I do. You never know what can happen in a store. :) Besides, a little situational awareness prevents you from doing all the dick moves like blocking an aisle because you weren't aware there were people who needed to get by. Admittedly, there is a difference between being aware of what's around you and looking to see if anybody's looking at you.

I apparently give CDers a bad name just by being one. :)

More seriously, I do engage people in a friendly way when I'm out, and I have a bit of a flamboyant/pythonesque demeanor anyway, so people almost always respond well to me except conservative old couples. Even then, the ladies in those couples usually flirt with me. :)

But I've never been one to care about my "reputation". I figure if you have to spend even a minute worrying about how you might be damaging your reputation, you're doing it wrong. Your reputation, and how you give a reputation to a particular group, invariably comes from your behavior, and if you really want a good reputation, you should live as someone who has one, and your good reputation will follow from that.

[Amy Lynn3]

I shop at different stores all the time, but what determines the store I'm shopping at is, if I am in the area. What I am wearing, while shopping, depends on what I happen to have on, when I am in a certain area or mall.

FWIW: I happen to have a neighbor that works for Loss Prevention at Wal Mart. As per them a tally of who stopped the most theft, in every store in the state, is sent out each month. I guess the one at the top of the list might get a promotion or something. IDK.

[PaulaQ]

Q1: I've shopped both en femme (I prefer this - hard to size clothing without forms), and en drab. When I'm en femme, I try to be as passable as possible, and I'm working on my voice.

Q2: Sure, putting stuff you haven't paid for into your bag is pretty suspicious. Looking nervous is also suspicious. If you look like you own the place, nobody notices you.

Q3: Are you kidding me?!?! No way - I like people! Interaction with other women is the best part of the experience.

As far as whether CDers en drab, or with some femme attire, but not attempting to pass making us look bad - you should also add CDers who are overdressed / overmade up. All three are pretty obvious tells. However:
1. To people who don't approve of CDing, CDers already look bad. Doesn't matter what you do.
2. Most haters won't risk a confrontation. (The ones who will should be considered extremely dangerous, quite frankly.)They will just stare, mostly.
3. With rare exceptions, most SA's don't care. Most SA's want your money, and in many of the stores where we'd be likely to shop, they are used to us girls, and it's fine whatever you want to wear. If a store is unfriendly - it's real simple - don't go back, or report the employee to corporate.

Being polite, cheerful, and spending money will make us look good. Being a d-bag, rude, or cheap, does not make us look good.

[Princess Grandpa]

Answer to all three: no, no, and no.

FYI, when I went to Macy's, dressed as a guy, they did not permit to use the womens' fitting rooms when I asked to try on a dress. I got turned down.
When I'm dressed fully en femme at Macy's or any store, I get Carte Blanche to the fitting rooms......happens every time, all the time.

That's just the way it is.

Okay, maybe I'm short (5'6"), but I never had a problem when in girl mode.

I only shop in male mode. Not quite ready to go out into the big bad world. I take the items I want and walk it over to the guys dressing room.

Hug
Rita

[Princess Grandpa]

but my preferred presentation mode is as a "dude in as dress".

That is the crux of it right there! If that is where you comfort level is, why should any of us care? In a community crying for acceptance should someone really feel they will be looked down on or shunned?

Hug
Rita

[Beverley Sims]

We are all free to express ourselves.
Some are worse at it than others, that is all.

[Kate Simmons]

I doubt that many people pay that much attention to me either way my friend.:)

[Jenny CD]

I doubt that many people pay that much attention to me either way my friend.:)

That's the way I feel, Kate. And if they do, and I'm not breaking any laws... Who cares?

[kimdl93]

I get lost in all the questions, but if I get the drift, after reading all these comments, it's about how what we can do to present a positive image of CDrs when we are out...I'd hope to apply the same principles to any public presence...not just shopping.we all can't pass, some despite their best efforts can't blend in easily, but we can all choose to dress and act in a considerate manner. I know there is no accounting for taste. But I think a reasonably strong consensus can be built around dressing in both an age and situationally appropriate manner.

Ho one perceives others...whether we proceed confidently or fearfully, that's another matter. I have a friend who works as a cosmetics SA. She contrasted my manner-confident, open, friendly and talkative to that of another CD client, who as she described, walked with her head down, avoided eye contact, rarely smile and barely spoke. I don't know if that demeanor would deserve to attract suspicion, but I suppose if you act guilty, people will notice.

[daviolin]

When I used to go out, I always dressed to the nines. But one day I wanted to go shopping. I didn't feel like hassling with all the make-up. So I just dressed as a woman, minus the make-up and wig. It turned out being a great experience. No hassles, no uncomfortable situations. I just felt like me. It was super great. I need to do that more often. Daviolin