Do You Work On Your Voice?

[Ariamythe]

Hey all! I'm just now returning to the forums after some time away. I used to hang out mainly in the CD forum, but I've moved on ...

One of the reasons I came back is that I'm curious about something I've noticed in the trans community: some women seem to care a lot about training/changing their voice, and some women seem to care very little about how they sound. I've met women who have had it all -- GRS, FFS, BA -- but still sounded like middle-aged men when they speak; and I've met women who likely get "read" frequently but who have put a lot of effort into the way they speak.

What's your view on the voice issue? And if you've worked on your voice, what resources have you used? I've found some online but I'm always looking for more, better techniques.

[JohnH]

Since I sing bass (lower than baritone) in a public context - in a church choir - it would be really strange for me to try to adopt the pitch of a genetic woman. However, I am striving to take on other ways women speak such as speaking in more of a varying pitch instead of the typical monotone a lot of men speak.

Johanna

[linda allen]

I'm a part time "crossdresser" and I try to use a feminine voice when in public, but that's not often. I suspect I sound more like Michael Jackson than a genuine female. I would expect a transexual to work a lot harder on making her voive sound female. I've seen and heard some on TV that were very convincing.

It's not just the pitch, that makes a voice sound female, there are many fine points. Also, I have observed that a GG will usually use many more words to say what a man would say in few words.

[Angela Campbell]

I have worked on the voice a lot but I think I will need some help if I am ever going to be happy with it. That is one of the things I plan on working on in the coming months. (along with hair, body shape, facial hair removal)

There is so much for me to do in the next year. I too would like to find some better resources for voice.

[Stephanie-L]

Hi Ali,
I have recently gone full time, and I can say that my voice is one of my biggest issues, despite 18 months of voice therapy. I went to my local university that has a speech therapy school, and received lessons there, which helped a lot. My major problem is that it takes effort and concentration to use what I have learned, at least at this stage, so if I really try, my voice is decent, if I am not trying, or not thinking about it, I get read a lot. I need to make it normal to use the techniques I learned and project a more female voice. there is no easy way to do it. Despite being over 6 feet tall, I feel that my looks are really a minor issue, I get comments from folks about my height as a woman, and none about me being a trans person. Much luck to you............Stephanie

[kellypm]

my other half who is transitioning has altered her voice not by any coaching or anything she just speaks a bit higher and softer (sometimes a bit ott) but mostly ok, i beleive there are some self help videos on youtube hope that helps

Kelly

[Ann Louise]

FWIW, I made the discovery that a spritz of Chloraseptic sore throat spray tunes up my vocal cords for a while, and I can hit my "middle C" voice pretty easily. Wow, it really works (for me). Too bad it tastes like the leather couch in my endo's office. x0*-*0x Ann

[Ellie52]

I dont think its a matter of speaking in a higher frequency, thats always going to sound false(tto). What I try to do is remove the bass inflection by talking quieter and a bit husky like a 40pack a day waitress.....Ellie

[Ann Louise]

I dont think its a matter of speaking in a higher frequency, thats always going to sound false(tto).... I suppose the engineer in me just can't resist a reply: Really Eloise, it won't sound false if you execute it properly. You'll sound just nicely feminine. The skill comes in finding your "true" voice, not a put-on one. It's voice training just like for singing. Removing the base inflection is a good start, but indeed our female target range is a higher range of frequencies that happens to overlap the upper end of the male range. So perhaps the lower end of the female frequency range works just fine for you by cutting the base, and wow, are you lucky. Working in mining and construction for so many years has led me to have to banish a strong male "command voice" that served me so well in my interactions with knuckleheads in the past. Now it's a curse. My stature is getting more delicate all the time, so to match I'm shooting for at least a low-end feminine range of somewhere from "A3" (2200 Hz) to "C4" (2600 Hz).

I realize that this might look quite bizzare, this whole engineering/scientific thing, so please know that I didn't make this up on my own. The standard that I've been working with is Deep Stealth Productions "Finding Your Female Voice" and it's well-reputed and excellent. It's easy to find, and Andrea James, the creator, is a real person and a great teacher.

Good luck, and all the best, Ann x0*-*0x

[SuzanneBender]

I work on my voice daily. At first it felt really contrived but now it feels must more natural. A good femme voice takes much more than just raising the pitch. Its about breath control, tempo, resonance, and inflection. Perfecting a feminine voice is like learning a new language. It takes time and practice.

I highly recommend two programs. Kathy Perez has a great program and also Andrea James program that Ann mentions above.

[StephanieC]

I, too, took classes. I work on my voice all the time.

-stephani

[ArleneRaquel]

My voice is somewhat feminine as it is, so I just let her(my voice) fling away.

[Ellie52]

Anne - I wouid like to clarify some points.
A voioce is a complicated arrangement of frequencies and associated harmonics. Like any musical instrument the voice box can generate analogue waveforms. Therse waveforms are generated by the brain through the voicebox on an almost sub concious level. I think it would be very difficult to have two instruments subconsciously available. Yes you can sing but that takes concentration. What we are talking about is a voice that sounds natural and that requires it be done on an almost sub conscious level. By using your brain as a graphic equalizer you can enhance and subtract frequencies to a higher degree of accuracy than trying to force an unnatural frequency through your voicebox. The timbre of the voicebox is set and forcing it to an unnatural state will always in my opinion sound false UNLESS you train your voice as a single entity (like learning a new accent) but your female voice would then have to be the primary voice...My opinion only...Ellie

[Ann Louise]

Really Eloise, we're saying the same thing, but I guess I don't have the education you do on this. Please excuse my amateurish explanation. None the less, I am developing a nice, natural-sounding, mature adult-woman's voice. At least that's what my wife and friends tell me. Just trying to suggest a resource to the OP. All the best to you, Ann

[Nicole Erin]

Reason they get FFS SRS and whatever BA is but their voices still sound like crap is cause you cannot just go out and buy a new voice. Voice surgeries pretty much ruin it.

I mean crap, some things with transition are expensive but others are relatively cheap or FREE. Voice takes some work and too many don't want to bother, they quit before they even start.
FFS has limited effect, no one sees what is in your pants, but everyone hears your voice. It is probably the single most important thing one can do to be taken at least somewhat serious as a woman.

Resources - there are many but the lessons tend to ramble endlessly so by the time you get to the important stuff, it is lost in the shuffle. In a nutshell here is how it is done -
Pay real close attention to how throat muscles feel when speaking in barritone or falsetto, gargling, yawning, etc...
Learn to control those muscles. NOW - learn to *slightly* restrict the lower 1/2 of the throat when speaking and there is the femme voice. Biggest challenge - getting over the silly feeling when first practicing, yes, even if you are alone and trying, at first you may feel like a dufus dip-shit dolt. Get over it.

Sitting in the car singing bubble gum girl-band songs doesn't help. Speaking quiet doesn't help (ever hear of a quiet woman? NO!)

[Ariamythe]

Since I sing bass (lower than baritone) in a public context - in a church choir - it would be really strange for me to try to adopt the pitch of a genetic woman.
Don't be so sure. One of the resources I've been listening to talks about the natural range of genetic males and females, and there's a lot of overlap. A natural-sounding contralto may not be out of the question for you. :)


I went to my local university that has a speech therapy school, and received lessons there, which helped a lot.
My local university has an actual gender-specialized speech therapist .... but you need a prescription to make an appointment. I'm not even sure how one prescribes a therapist!


My major problem is that it takes effort and concentration to use what I have learned, at least at this stage, so if I really try, my voice is decent, if I am not trying, or not thinking about it, I get read a lot. I need to make it normal to use the techniques I learned and project a more female voice.
I've definitely gotten that sense so far. I can't imagine the things I'm having to do with my throat becoming "normal" enough to be natural.


I realize that this might look quite bizzare, this whole engineering/scientific thing, so please know that I didn't make this up on my own. The standard that I've been working with is Deep Stealth Productions "Finding Your Female Voice" and it's well-reputed and excellent.
FYFV is the resource I've been using. They put their original video up as a series of YouTube clips, plus the workbook for free on their website. She certainly knows what she's doing! I will eventually purchase their more comprehensive voice kit, but for now those videos are useful for a n00b.

I also found an old copy of something called "Melanie Speaks." Older than FYFV, and less actual training in it -- she figured out a lot of the same tricks/techniques as FYFV, but she doesn't do a good a job of setting out exercises and such.

[brandi.tgurl]

i try to... but i don't always practice it. at one point i thought, i had a more feminine voice, but i never used it except while talking to myself in the car or house. lol. after about a year or 2 from that, i am again working on it, but, its kinda hard.

[Ariamythe]

In a nutshell here is how it is done -
Pay real close attention to how throat muscles feel when speaking in barritone or falsetto, gargling, yawning, etc...
Learn to control those muscles. NOW - learn to *slightly* restrict the lower 1/2 of the throat when speaking and there is the femme voice. Biggest challenge - getting over the silly feeling when first practicing, yes, even if you are alone and trying, at first you may feel like a dufus dip-shit dolt. Get over it.


Good quick tips. Thanks. :). I have a 40 minute commute every weekday, and so they've definitely been useful for doing silly things with my voice. And yes, it feels weird even though I'm alone. I'm always like, "What if the people in the cars next to me see me talking to no one? What will they think?!"

[JohnH]

I remember now Alexis Arquette. She is a transwoman with a very deep voice for a woman yet still still sounds like a woman. I think I could adopt that kind of a speaking voice and still sing bass without things being incongruent.

As far a being a natural sounding contralto it would have to be speaking only. I cannot comfortably sing a baritone part for very long, let alone tenor or alto. And it would be a waste for me not to sing bass since I am the only bass in the choir - there are two baritones and a tenor as far as the other masculine voices are concerned.

Johanna

[Kimberly Kael]

As I was preparing to transition I found that I was rarely misgendered in person, but it happened frequently over the phone. So I saw a speech therapist who specializes in gender cues for about 6 months. My voice could definitely still use work, but it's a clear improvement. I'm glad others have pointed out that pitch is only one of many ways we discern gender. Tonality and inflection are extremely relevant, as is engagement style and word choice.

[JohnH]

I'm glad Kimberly points out that tonality, inflection, engagement style and word choice count a lot in determining the gender. Those are things I am working on. If I am read as a male over the phone that is not the end of the world for me.

Let's put it this way - my body measurements are close to that of a genetic woman. And yet the pitch of my voice is deep for a genetic male, and I am not inclined to change that pitch.

Johanna

[Rianna Humble]

The timbre of the voicebox is set and forcing it to an unnatural state will always in my opinion sound false UNLESS you train your voice as a single entity (like learning a new accent) but your female voice would then have to be the primary voice...My opinion only...Ellie

Eloise, giveen thaat this thread is in the Transsexual Forum, why on earth would you assume that an MtF Transsexual would want to alternate between a female voice and a male voice?

[Ellie52]

Eloise, giveen thaat this thread is in the Transsexual Forum, why on earth would you assume that an MtF Transsexual would want to alternate between a female voice and a male voice?
Ooops stupid me. I apologise if I offended anybody..Ellie

[JohnH]

Eloise, giveen thaat this thread is in the Transsexual Forum, why on earth would you assume that an MtF Transsexual would want to alternate between a female voice and a male voice?

Good point. I do not have a boy mode or a girl mode - I have only the Johanna (John) mode. That means I do not have two different ways of talking, wear wigs and breast forms, or have different ways of grooming myself - makeup and nail polish.

Johanna

[Sandieland]

I work on my voice every day and later in the year I will try to work with a voice coach. Meanwhile, I train my vocal cords each day by reading out loud for a set time in a falsetto voice (don't strain or hurt your voice). Then I drop it to a level that is what I call "high normal" (for me) and then I sing. Since a talking female voice is more melodious than a male voice, I try to sing as close as I can in this higher pitch and as melodious, and in tune, as I can. Amazingly, I am starting to sing in a feminine voice at times. Then, I drop out of singing and try to speak in a normal voice at that same musical level. I haven't perfected it yet, but sometimes I hear myself speaking in a wonderful musical pitch that I then record on my computer. When played back I can tell I'm getting closer. I know this is not scientific, but until I can put together the money for my voice lessons, it has to do.

[Inna]

hands down one of the most excruciating and grueling processes within transition.

Practice does perfect! As simple as it gets, vocal cords are simply specialized muscles, however, their response is driven by automatic muscular reaction, bypassing the cognitive.
So in order to achieve sort of control spectrum, one must practice just as an Olympian must repeat the movement to improve the technique. Something on order of 14,000 repetitions are necessary for muscle memory to become auto-reflexive.

Male vocalization usually happens in the lower throat area, feminine voice resonates much higher as to the location, hence is called a head voice instead of chest voice in males.

Mileage mileage mileage, there are available several videos on youtube one of the most detailed are by Kathe Perez voice coach and therapist.

And finally, transition means different things to once who set out to conquer fear and denial. I am one of those to whom anything short of completeness is simply not much of a transition but rather inquisition of society brought upon them selves.
Voice is one of the most gender recognized senses, sound like a woman and chances are, if there were some clues which pointed otherwise, they will be clarified by well sounding voice. Manish looking transsexual may sway the opinion towards simply more masculine woman.

[Nicole Erin]

First one needs to learn the voice of reason and here it is - don;t pay for some video where a tranny is teaching you how to do a femme voice, you can get the info free and stuff.
OH GYOD I gotta tell you something - Melanie Anne phillips used to sell some femme voice BS and I got it and was real excited but then listened to it - CRAPPY sound quality, a dog barking in the background, you hear a low flying jet and I think a drive by shooting. That and it RAMBLES non stop. I was like "F*** this" and gave up until years later when I was gonna live as a woman and NEEDED my voice to sound like as chick.


Yes, it feels weird even though I'm alone. I'm always like, "What if the people in the cars next to me see me talking to no one? What will they think?!"

Probably that you are using a blue tooth these days.
Besides even if they think you are talking to yourself, it is no more mortifying than when someone is caught dead having a good cry to the song "hey there Delilah". Oh gyod that would be hilarious to look over and see someone, especially a dude, crying during that song. I would laugh my ass off. :D HAHAHAHA!

[Ariamythe]

Eloise, giveen thaat this thread is in the Transsexual Forum, why on earth would you assume that an MtF Transsexual would want to alternate between a female voice and a male voice?

While the ultimate goal of a MtF is to live full time, don't doubt that, in getting there, many people will have a time when they need to switch out. For example, many transwomen wait until late in their transition to come out at work. I know that for me, work will be one of the last places I transition. Until I do, I will need my male voice.

[linda allen]

I may get crucified for posting this, but in my experience, females tend to use more words to express the same thought as a man. A lot more words. :devil:

There was a TV commercial for an outboard (boat) motor not long ago that used that point. The man and the woman were out fishing and she was continually talking while he answered her questions in just a word or two.

I doubt that any of the casual crossdressers will ever get to this point, but for anyone seriously transitioning or living as a female, this is probably important.

Just listen to conversations and you will understand.

[bas1985]

My Girlfriend confirms this.

She says that I talk like "my mother", with a LOT of words and this makes my voice feminine, even if I have simply started to make some exercises.

It seems that the inflection and accents are more important than the overall quality. But I am Italian and Italian is a very melodic language, so maybe this is not so applicable to other languages.

Of course this is not "passing", but, yes, what to say is important as how to say it.

[Juliea661]

Hi Aria, I'm just a part time CD who has no plans to go further. But when I do go out dressed I want to present and appear as a GG as possible. Since our voice is such a large part of that presentation I do work on it. I bought a little digital recorder and often read out loud to myself and play it back. I work on softness, breath, and melody, and this has helped. I also study women talking and how they are so much more expressive in both facial expressions and use of their hands, and I work on that as well. All this has helped some. But I think the biggest thing is speaking and presenting with confidence - and that is something which is hard for me....
Hugs, Jules

[sallyjones]

yes the worst thing is to look femmme until u open your mouth.

[Vivian Best]

The main difference between women and men is women speak from their upper palate, almost nasal like, and men speak from their throat. Obtaining a feminine intonation, or lack of it, is the most important factor for others to hear you as a female or male male. The sing song quality, the varying speed and the emphasis of some syllables are important features for the MtF.

[Badtranny]

but for anyone seriously transitioning or living as a female, this is probably important.

...and not a problem. I have never met a transitioner who wasn't chatty. Our burden is is entirely physical in nature, none of us have had to 'learn to act like women'. This is why meeting a real TS is so shocking for some people, there is a disconnect between how they look and how they act. Until the look is finally corrected.

[Ariamythe]

The main difference between women and men is women speak from their upper palate, almost nasal like,
I would disagree with this. A lot of MtFs *think* this is the case, but a nasal voice is not necessarily an authentically feminine voice. At least, that's the prevailing opinion amongst the various voice resources I've accessed. "Talking through your nose" is one of the first things they warn against.

They also warn against "vocal fry," but it's so common amongst women in the U.S. that it would probably be a good idea to adopt it, at least a little.

[LeaP]

"vocal fry"

Great. Just when I was reconciled to dealing with dysphoria, along comes dysphonia.

[Ariamythe]

Great. Just when I was reconciled to dealing with dysphoria, along comes dysphonia.
LOL! I don't know. Vocal fry is basically that vocal quality that makes teenagers and Kardashians so annoying to listen to. Maybe it's better to avoid that particular trait.

[GBJoker]

I believe that both MTFs and FTMs should work on their voices, but at the same time, I'm not gonna hold a gun to any one's head and make 'em do it.

I am almost completely unable to work on my own voice though. 99% of the time, I literally do not hear any difference between an average male voice and an average female voice. Which means, I probably need a lot more help than I'm willing to admit.