Is it safer to not pass?

[Rebecca Watson]

Hi everyone,

On the way to a bar one night, a rowdy group of young men drove by me and hollered from their car: "You're really tall!". A moment later they yelled "Holy shit, that's a man. It's a ******* man." I was quite uneasy about the possibility of them driving back so I quickly grabbed a nearby taxi (and subsequently had an enjoyable night of dancing in ludicrously high heels [at a non-CD venue]).

I guess for a moment there, they didn't realise. But after they realised, it felt like a dangerous situation to be in. My feeling is that they wouldn't have cared if they had known from the start.

Hence, the question: Is it safer to not pass?

- Becky

[Tracii G]

In that case its possible.Very interesting insight.

[Joanne108]

I've been in similar situations and said in my sexiest woman's voice I've said "You've never seen a tall girl before?" and walked away. I've found that if my boobs and cleavage looks great most guys just accept that I am a woman. Guys love to see boobs bounce! And never go out by yourself!

[meganmartin]

Becky - Very interesting point I will be looking at the post and seeing the various opinions.

[Alice Torn]

Good question. Hard to say, byt maybe it would be more haxardous, as most rowdy guys would more likely attack a guy dressed up, than a woman.

[Jaylyn]

I don't go out dressed except my back yard and porch but I would definitely want to be with several CDs if I ever did. A special even in the safety of a motel or meeting in a cd friendly establishment might be ok but getting to and from the event would worry me. Here in Texas we have a concealed carry law and I would definitely be carrying if I had to go out in places dressed, passable or not. There are still lots of folks that take offense to us. They get the impression that we are weak. I really wouldn't enjoy being put to the test even though I used to be able to fight with the best of them, from my law enforcement back ground and karate training. Most of all I would get irritated when people that don't know what we are about start belittling us and calling names. Just makes me aggravated and I would probably say something to cause a mess.

[Julie Bender]

I agree jaylyn and I love your lovely name.
It is always important to ALWAYS travel in pairs or groups cd or common person dressed or boy clothes gg or not
Just best policy for well being

[Beverley Sims]

I have a good cleavage and my voice is soft I think I mess with peoples minds as much as passing.
I occasionally have people guessing.
I think it is safer to pass, if I was having a problem I think I would work on it.

[NathalieX66]

Rebecca, This is a great post!
I have a number of folks who are TS, and I always get envious and jealous of how well they can pull it off.

However, I am not in their situations, and I have to deal with the life and body I have. That being said, I'm perfectly willing to not be perfect. Sometimes I pass, sometimes I don't.
The reality is I'm perfectly happy to be seen as a transgender person of some kind. At least I'm me.....a gender non-conformist.

If safety is an issue, then always be aware of your surroundings. I did get called out by some teenagers (hey, that's a DUDE?!) a few years back

[Stephanie47]

It is one thing to try to emulate a woman to your best ability for self gratification. It is another thing to emulate a woman and pass yourself off to a male as a female. Some homophobic men get really irate or worse when deceived.

Whether it is justified or not, it seems there is a perception among the public that a man dressed as a woman, especially when unaccompanied, is trying to pick up another guy for a 'date.'

When out and about with the general public, I'd carefully choose the locale for a stroll. Safer and more accepting neighborhoods, more tolerant neighborhoods are my preference when I do go out.

I have not had the urge or desire to mingle with the public. For me, it is a private matter. However, if I were to get the desire to explore myself, I'd join a small support group that meets once a month at a gender friendly restaurant.

I read many threads of Cd-ers going to clubs. However, it seems the venues are always where a CD-ers are welcomed and frequently present. I haven't noticed any threads of a CD-er dressed in six inch heels, fishnet stockings, miniskirt showing the cheeks of her ass, excessive makeup, and long blond tresses going to a Biker bar. Let me know how that would turn out.

[robindee36]

Becky, As open as our community has become it is still far from being widely accepted. Fortunately there are a number of groups and venues in this area that cater to CD's. They actually encourage us to come out with events and promotions.

Not sure I would venture out alone or to a venue not populated with CD's. Passable or not, just seems like trouble in the making. This certainly limits my options but I'd hate to be in an altercation over my garb or sexuality.

Only you can evaluate the possibilities and problems. I certainly scope things out before showing up dressed.

Be careful out their girl. It can still be a dangerous world for us.

Hugs.

[Shelly Preston]

Rebecca

Think about this way if you pass 50 % of the time that halves your chances of being in danger

I would suggest its better if you can pass due to the nature of some people who may wish too cause you grief.

IF only the public would accept any way of dressing as long its within the boundaries of decency

[Lorileah]

better to pass as much as possible. Half passing or not trying in most instances will get you outed and then you will have other things to worry about. As far as safety goes, a woman alone on the streets anywhere is in much more danger than a man. Brightly lit areas traveled by many people are the best. And even I won't go half a block off the main drag alone.

[Wildaboutheels]

Let's look at the REALITY of your question. Unless one has been living alone on an island for the past 15 years w/o internet...

IF IT BLEEDS IT LEADS. As in "news" anywhere, in any form. Death, mayhem, murder, rape, beatings, muggings, car jacking... the list is endless. The more different from the "norm" the better. My local news always leads with any such story because it generates ratings - MONEY. I have all the "big 4" in my city and invariably, they will all lead their newscasts with the "juciest" story. Almost everything [at least in the US] revolves around making money. The police, hospitals, TV stations etc., have no reason to collude to stifle ANY type of news do they? Throw in the fact that almost everyone in this country 5 years and older is carrying a smart phone and is just itching to shoot video in the blink of an eye and post it on the internet within the hour...

WHEN one gets their "news" from a wide variety of sources and reading/hearing of someone getting beat up or accosted because they were wearing the wrong clothes is extremely rare, there is a reason for it. It's rare because VERY few people actually CARE [how others dress] or are always thinking/wondering/trying to determine the sex of others out in the RW.

Other than your average everyday CDer of course. Or possibly a young immature "man" or group of men out "on the prowl" for women.

No one can know IF they passed. It's just that simple. Many people here, love to claim it/want to think it/highly desire it but in the end, fretting about "passing" surely is THE biggest impediment to truly relaxing and enjoying oneself when and IF they are out and about int the RW. Just this week alone, 3 different folks have said their ultimate plan or goal is to be able to go out in the RW without having to try to pass and w/o worrying about it. NOT have to try to fool people. NOT have to go to all the trouble [not to mention expense] of padding, wigs, forms, makeup etc.

I think they are on the right track in "dressing" however THEY want to. I think they realize that they can't possibly KNOW what others are thinking, so isn't it better to dress to please yourself and be comfortable?

Of course if one chooses to go to any "regular" bar [while dressed] frequented by many young [very likley drunk and immature] men, the odds become dramatically stacked against a CDer I would imagine as far as any possibilty of bodily harm.

[CherylFlint]

Toss them heels, pronto.
You were just lucky they didn’t drive around the block and, at the minimum, steal your purse and, worse, break your nose and really mess you up.
And you know what? Cops wouldn’t have cared less.
If any of us goes out in public dressed we better pass the “pass” test. I don’t mean speaking, but when someone looks at us they expect to see a real honest 100% girl/woman/female and it’s our job to make sure they do.
Little things add up.
First, high heels, like 3”, are totally O-U-T unless you’re at home or a club, and to walk on the sidewalk to get to the club wear flats or less than ¾” and put the 3” ones on when you get inside, if that’s what floats your boat.
And if you have to speak point at your throat and say “Sorry, laryngitis”.
Earrings, rings on the fingers, bracelets, little pieces of jewelry, correct size and color purse, all add up to make us right. The correct size forms, the correct size skirt (and the correct length), the proper shoes (Hello?), the right wig all make up the whole and YOU ARE NOT TO JUDGE. We ALL need real female input.
I was at a bar once and a girl told me had I worn jeans, like all the other girls, I’d have fooled her and her friends. As it was, I noticed that I was the only girl at the bar in a skirt, and she was elected by her friends, after they figured I was a TV, to talk to me. And you know what? She was right. Dress the part, blend in, don’t make it any easier than it is to be “made”.
I’m telling you, it’s really stupid to make light of what you went through. They “made” you for a reason. My advice is to fix the reason and do it right.
Be safe, and if you can’t do it right, stay home. Hate to hear if anyone of us got maimed because we acted stupid.

[Eryn]

Any time a post starts "On the way to a bar one night..." there is going to be considerable danger involved. Some people seem to like the thrill of facing those sort of dangers, but alcohol and testosterone can make for very ugly situations.

Possible solutions are to choose a more upscale venue or to choose a more private way to go to the venue.

The other aspect to be aware of is the expectations of the GMs around you. If you are so passable that they are buying you drinks and chatting you up then they will be doubly angry if you are made. Yes, GGs play the "flirt for free drinks" game all the time, but with us it can be deadly.

[Lynn Marie]

Upscale venues, know your neighborhoods, travel in pairs or a group. A CD alone in an area where groups of drunks frequent is trouble for a CD, and even a gg by herself. Hell, even in boy mode I avoid drunks and rowdy groups. Thanks for the lesson and reminder.

[sherri]

There's way too much paranoia going on here. Yes, TGs should definitely exercise caution when out and about, but good old common sense will keep you out of trouble. Rebecca, now you know the random can happen, so simply adjust your MO accordingly, no big deal. I don't obsess about it, but I usually have an exit strategy for most any situation, and I go in with my eyes open, but not deer-in-the-headlights open. :-)

Yes, I would consider a group of rowdy boys potentially dangerous, or at least annoying, so maybe you should save your walks for other times and places. I enjoy strolling through the antiques district on a lazy Sunday afternoon, but would not do so when out clubbing late at night. I presume you were using mass transit or something? Here in Texas, we drive ourselves so there's no problem getting to and from the clubs. And sure, I'd love the company of a gaggle of girlfriends on my outings, but if I waited on that to happen I'd never get to go anywhere.

And puh-lease, don't anybody try to tell me I can't wear my heels. That's just silly. Ditto the notion that if you don't pass you can't go out. I'll refrain from saying that's stupid, but it's just flat not true. I've been doing it for years, and so have many, many other gurls. And you know what? 99% of the time I've done it all by my itty bitty self.

As to your question, no, I don't think those drive-by boys knowing up front that you're TG would have necessarily lessened the potential threat, assuming there was any actual threat. If you'd been flirting and leading them on without them suspecting anything then yeah, maybe, but drive-by? Huh-uh, the red light comes on the second they clock you and start yelling insults. And if they had made you sooner, they might have pulled over to harass you. I'd say the ambiguity actually worked in your favor.

[Badtranny]

I don't understand the question. It seems like in your case it would have been safer to have actually passed. Or at least enough that they didn't notice you were a dude.

[vikki2020]

A lot depends on where,and when your out. Late night anywhere is when things happen---to everybody! As for having to pass--no. At least not around my area. I've been dialing it way down lately, and it seems that the acceptance is even better at times. As long as you look "normal"--everyday dress--- and wear it proud, you should be ok. Today, a pair of shorts, flats, and a skimpy cammi--(it was HOT out), and went everywhere without an issue. Just a bit of lipstick, too warm for make-up. A pair of woman saw me in the car,driving next to me---one told the other, and she leaned up for a better look---and I got a "thumbs up" from both of them! :)

[AllieSF]

I agree with Sherri. Better to pass as well as you can versus stand out like whatever. However, some of us will stand out no matter what. I refuse to stay home and do not worry too much about where I go. I am still a guy, am very aware of my surroundings and probably can talk my way out of a lot of tough situations. That doesn't mean that I do not understand odds and the laws of probability. Shit happens and one day it may even happen to me, in guy or girl mode. I call that the luck of the draw. I take responsibility for how I dress, where I go and the decisions I make. Dress as you want and go where you want. As for going into upper scale establishments versus local neighborhood bars versus some dive bars, if you are familiar with the venue, you already know how much you can get away with. Just use your own common sense and you will be fine.

[STACY B]

You worry to much ,, Just a Bunch of Young Boys wanting to check out the female impersonator ,,Hell give them a show ,, We are Rare ya know ,, Like a White Tiger !!! Roar !!!

[DebbieL]

Back in my 30's I could look really hot. I'd get offers ranging from sweet to very lewd. Some thought I was a hooker. Even if they never figured it out, it could get very scary. I realized that GGs get the same treatment when they are dressed to go clubbing. I began to appreciate the courage it takes to be a beautiful woman. Getting clocked added a new dimension. I learned quickly that it was better to blow my own cover with a big smile and a wink, than to try to hide and have them freak kut. Many were just curious and asked lots of questions. A few got ugly, so I'd tell them I was a lesbian. If I focused on the fear, I got threatened. If I focused on helping THEM feel safe, I was safe.

Now that I'm older, I'm invisible as an older woman. Not as much fun, but much more liberating.

[Kate Simmons]

We can prep for different situations but they don't always necessarily "go down" as we may have thought. There are always split second and "in the moment" dynamics that come up. The best thing to always do are use your powers of observation and make sure a quick escape route is handy just in case. If deliberately out there to attract a male, it's a different story all together.:)

[Candice Mae]

I've been whistled at, "hey babe" 'd, Called a Bit#h for not talking to a guy when he was trying hit on me, and Candice's first and last trip to 7-11. I still haven't gone out since that, I'm confident with my self. But, I just don't feel comfortable going out alone anymore... If you look good enough to get a guys attention please be careful, because I don't think too many guys would be happy to find out who they just tried to pick up is not a GG.

[Jenniferathome]

...Hence, the question: Is it safer to not pass?- Becky

Becky, I think the issue is the perceived humiliation of the idiot doing the yelling. If you pass, no issue. If you don't, likely no issue. Going from pass to fail is where some rednecks can really get bent out of shape. Imagine his friends in the car saying,"bubba, you just hit on a dude! You're gay." That sort of witty banter. In general, the more you blend in the better. If traveling alone, have situational awareness.

[Michelle (Oz)]

An interesting conundrum Becky.

I have had just two 'bad' experiences in the 100's of times going out. Once a guy tried to pick me up and another time teenage boys made, well, teenage boy comments. I did make a hasty retreat with the worry that if I was seen to be a male in a dress worse things could happen. But maybe it was a male in a dress that the guy wanted. Either way I was out of there.

It did make me think about safety and not take my safety for granted. I do think that passing is perhaps best in those circumstances and not passing could bring its own set of problems.

[sherri]

I smile when I hear us talking about passing as if it were simply a matter of choice. For someone like me, that whole discussion is moot for the obvious reason. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

In which case, it's time for plan b. :-)

[RenneB]

I like how Debbie said it 'bout physically fit GGs that try to look good. In my area of the mid-west, unless you are 200+ lbs and wearing shorts and flip flops you stand out..... Every once in a while I'll see a GG in a skirt and heels and think how brave she must be as she surely gets a lot of looks, hoots and whatever.....

When I go out and about, I do my best to look as good as I can without wearing the "hey look at me outfits". I save those for special occasions.... Since 'we' that is humans come in all shapes and sizes not all of us 'pass' for the stereo typical media versions of GMs/GGs anyways. So do your best and have a go at it.

Renne.....

[Sandieland]

Crossdressing aside, I think this is a prime example of what women deal with much of their lives. Now, when I think of all those times when I was young and out with the guys drinking and we cat-called at women, I never thought that this was something that could be frightening to a single girl. I look back in shame now when I remember doing such things.

[crusadergirl]

Good question either way it might not be safe I have been called some pretty bad names not sure if they knew I was a cd nothing was said about it.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Sandie .

ill ask the ? then why did you do it, & now your ashamed , so drink aside though that would have played a part. young & imature, or one up of who gets the look from us, & a smile maybe,

The cat calls & saying you look lovely would be so much nicer, then we would know you appreciate the time spent to look nice, hmmm maybe you do now,

You know something that gets me , some of us dont have those looks yet its nice to be appreciated because we are female after all. some of us are embarrised enough now as it is,

the thought has come to me its like we are draged down yet you wont us to be beautyfull for you guys yet we are still degraded, & i wonder why i never understood men. hated being around them.

it just opened up the can of worms ..... sorry...... its how i see it , i know what its like, & i hated it, so easy to say something nice ..... yet could not do it,...... sad.......

...noeleena...

[Ressie]

"You're really tall". When I see a tall woman I often wonder if she's TG-CD or not. I was sitting next to a tall woman in a bar the other night and she also had large hands, but when she spoke it was clear to me that she was a GG.

Anyway, being taller than most women is something you can't do much about except wearing flats.

There was an open TG in this area a few years ago that obviously wasn't a GG and didn't try to pass at all. Personality wise, she seemed to have the ability to take care of any situation that might come up, but I'm sure the guys just left here alone.

[kimdl93]

Hard to know. My guess is that their initial reactin, might otherwise have been the same, Evidently young men lack an inside voice!

[Rogina B]

The other aspect to be aware of is the expectations of the GMs around you. If you are so passable that they are buying you drinks and chatting you up then they will be doubly angry if you are made. Yes, GGs play the "flirt for free drinks" game all the time, but with us it can be deadly. Eryn,"deadly" is a strong word,but I think this part of your post describes the most dangerous situation[a T girl can get herself into] when in the mainstream world. If you look the part,usually you will go on by people in most all situations,people don't care.. If you are clocked by screaming Aholes,then your surroundings come into the safety part of it...most likely you are quite safe. However in a bar,best not to let anyone have a "financial interest" in your companionship at all...and that goes for GGs as well. Just my experiences..

[heatherdress]

Unfortunately, attacks on obvious male crossdressers over the years would not support a theory that it is safer to not pass. I do not think passing makes a difference. As many have pointed out, it is usually the environment you are in that increases likelihood of attack. Location, time of day, lighting, number of people around - these are factors which increase likelihood of crime or negative experience for anyone, not just CDers.

[Lacyfem]

Well if you were fully passable they probably wouldn't have come back and noticed you as a CD. So yes you'd be better off fully passable. However, like myself at 6'6" in 4" heels does bring suspicion right away so I don't wish to put myself in a position of ridicule or laughter from those that don't understand. Needless to say as some have brought up, danger. So if I'm out, it's at night and in a car to where I can be safe. Think we'd all like to be fully passable but we were born as men and our bodies are not quite built the same as womens and for those who are passable, I'm jeolous and envious but happy for them.

[Julogden]

When I lived in Chicago, a friend who lived in the same building as me had a female friend who was 6'4" tall, and one day we were all out on the sidewalk talking when an idiot teenager across the street in the park yelled "Hey, that's a man!", referring to the tall woman with us (I was not en femme at the time, so it wasn't me he was looking at) and our tall female friend turned around, gave him the finger and yelled "F*ck you!" back at him, and that was that.

That's another way to handle idiots. ;)

[Kimberly Kael]

Life is a collection of risks. Setting foot outside your home is inherently risky ... whether or not you're a crossdresser. So it's a matter of degrees. Every woman needs to learn to keep an eye on her surroundings to the point where it becomes second nature. Are there enough other people around to discourage a would-be attacker? Is there an escape route? It may sound paranoid, but it's the equivalent of learning not to stand on the edge of a sheer drop. You don't need to obsess over it, but you should feel nervous when you're taking a known risk.

So what kinds of risks do trans folk face? Not passing is a risk by itself. It doesn't matter whether you're read immediately or only after a while, there are people who will target anyone who is different. Your best bet here is to stay around potential allies and avoid rough neighborhoods or anyone who is drinking excessively. A nice, upscale restaurant is a better place to get a drink than a seedy bar. Attracting attention is a complementary risk, and this is what the OP discovered. If you read as an attractive woman at a glance, people are going to take a second look. The more provocatively you're dressed, the more likely men are to feel humiliated or angered if eventually you are read. So dress like you deserve respect, and you won't run afoul of folks who feel like they've been "tricked."

Stay safe out there!