Busted. YOUR life out in the RW...

[Wildaboutheels]

Can we all agree that both men and women come in all different shapes and sizes? Endless variety of voices, mannerisms, gaits, etc.? If you agree, I have 2 questions.

1] When you are out in public [regardless of how you are attired] do YOU scrutinize MEN in the same manner you "judge" WOMEN? Are you consciously trying to "bust" them/determine if they really are males? [Based merely on LOOKING at them of course]

2] If YOU determine/decide that someone is "misrepresenting" their true sex [either MtF or FtM] merely from LOOKING at them, do you keep quiet and do your best not to grimace or scowl and keep a straight face? [so they don't know you "busted" them?] Or do you walk up to them and verbally tell them something along the lines of "Hey I know you are trying really hard but let me tell you what you are doing wrong".

???

If you say nothing AND keep a straight face, and walk on by them, then THEY "passed".

Because YOU said nothing?

[Hint] Q#1 is yes OR no and Q#2 is try to pretend you did NOT notice OR speak up and "bust" them? [for their own good of course]

Or maybe your "willingness" to bust people out in the RW is determined solely by how you yourself are "presenting" at the time?

[Melissa_Rose]

I would probably stay quiet..
I have seen several mtf in my area and even though I thought they looked great and wanted to tell them.. I figured telling them would infact only be a back handed complement.
I can see pointing out something I see as a negative. Maybe I have a better eye. Maybe no one else noticed.
My 2 cents.

[Tracii G]

I treat people how I would like to be treated which is leave them alone basically.Maybe just a smile if they smile at me first.
I see way more FtM's than I do MtF's and if a convo starts I treat them like any other male.
No smirks or negative comments ever even if they look like a girl in guys clothes.to do so would be rude.

[AllieSF]

1) When out in the public I only scrutinize attractive people, and then it is to only appreciate and soak in their beauty and attractiveness. If I see a fellow CD it is by chance and not because I am searching for a cousin.

2) I never consider anyone dressed as the opposite gender to be misrepresenting anything. I see them as a fellow traveler. If the situation works, I may try to talk with them, if not, I may comment to someone I am with, usually another TG. My opinion of true passing is that I would never notice what they are from what they are presenting as. Just because I do not reach out to touch them does not mean that they are passing or not. As most of us realize, passing is a dream and fantasy that very few can pull off. Some people come closer to pulling it off than others. Some are fortunate and some are not. Life is like that.

[Kate Simmons]

I don't spend a lot of time being concerned with it Hon. When I come in contact with others, they usually go about their business and I go about mine.:)

[sherri]

This is a very strange post. First off, I don't expect to see other TGs when I'm out and am not actively looking for them. But if I did clock someone, why would I grimace or scowl or have to struggle to keep a straight face, and why on earth would I want to bust them, and why would I presume I should give them an unsolicited, on-the-spot critique. Are you being sarcastic, or am I missing something here?

[SharonDD]

Funny seeing the world for someone else's view. I will stay to mine, it's much more simpler and I am sure God thinks of me for the better of it.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi WAH, I say live and let live.

[stefan37]

I honestly do not understand this post. If I notice a fellow traveler why would I scowl, grimace, laugh or do anything to make them uncomfortable, humiliated or any other emotion my derogatory responce would elicent. I would give them a friendly smile and if the opportunity presented itself have a pleasant conversation.

[Michelle (Oz)]

This is a very strange post. First off, I don't expect to see other TGs when I'm out and am not actively looking for them. But if I did clock someone, why would I grimace or scowl or have to struggle to keep a straight face, and why on earth would I want to bust them, and why would I presume I should give them an unsolicited, on-the-spot critique. Are you being sarcastic, or am I missing something here?

I totally agree with Sherri.

When I'm out often 4 or so days a week female yet not likely to pass, I rely on people's acceptance of difference or individuality to allow me to integrate. Why wouldn't I accept individuality too whether it be tatoos, purple hair, piercings, goth clothes just to name a few? I don't like tatoos personally but I often say to someone with ink nice tatoo - makes their day.

The OP smacks of non-acceptance which is anathema to me. BTW, I haven't noticed any MtF or FtM in my outings. So I guess I'm not looking.

[Wildaboutheels]

J D public, aka "society", is NOT out there, looking to "bust" CDers. Because it is a FUTILE endeavor mostly. And just what would they have to gain by doing it?

Claiming to KNOW what sex a person is simply by watching them is a hobby and CLAIM only by CDers and others who have associated with them.

Giving NEWBIES the idea in thread after thread that JD public will bust and embarass them if they don't get everything just perfect and "pass/try to pass" helps no one and is simply not true.

[Leona]

Indeed, Wildaboutheels. There's this guy at one of the convenience stores I go to who has, on one hand, two fingers and the hand is HUGE. Why should it even be a topic of conversation? He's just the clerk, our business is about what I came there for and what he needs to do to take care of me (usually just ring me up). I don't have any reason to look at his hand funny and/or ask questions about it, and neither does he to bring attention to my skirt.

I realize from a certain point of view, we're both just freaks doing business. I don't subscribe to that point of view, however. We're people living our lives.

Take the dressing out of it and ask the same thing about anything you want. Prosthetic leg? Blind? Person of Walmart? Who cares?

I take the muppet view of the world often. Peoples is peoples.

[Ellie52]

I once saw what I thought was a Mtf in the coffee shop I go to. She came in on a regular basis but I could never tell if it was a true She or not.She was quite tall and masculine but didnt have any facial hair, medium hands/fingers and I couldnt spot an adams apple. Here voice was androgynous. I still dont know if it was a Mtf or a true female, but she doesnt come in anymore. ...Ellie

[Brooklyn]

#1 Yes, especially after I met a Trans-man who totally passes
#2 Neither, I make eye-contact and smile because they are part of my community.

[anneob2002]

I have seen many MtF out in the world aka the mall or on the streets. I would likely not walk up and talk to them anymore than I would anyone else. Given the right circumstances, maybe but it has yet to happen and I figure they are happy to do their own thing like most people for any number of reasons....

I have had clients that are FtM. Very easy, I treat them as one of my clients. It's easy for me and I like to think it gives them that little bit of acceptance they are looking for.

As for the "busting" them thing, well why would I want to hurt anyone's feelings or put it in their face that I know what they are "misrepresenting".... which I take issue with the point in general with the OP.

Remember, the body may be misrepresenting the mind...

[Leona]

I don't see a misrepresentation at all. I consider anybody who's crossdressing to be giving a more honest representation of themselves than anybody who's closeted, and presents their birth-assigned sex in public.

For those of us who are more fluid in gender, that obviously doesn't apply. But today, I wish I'd been wearing a bra, if only for the extra chest protection I would've had when the sparks from the weld burned through my shirt and hit my skin. I'd rather waste a sports bra than sport a burn on my tit.

[AmyGaleRT]

Not too long ago, I thought I spotted a MtF in the lobby of the building I work in. I'm not sure she really was, but she was rather tall and something about the appearance caused my CD-sense to tingle. I didn't say anything to her; she was on the way out the building's front door and I was heading elsewhere anyway. If she was a sister, though, I admired her presentation and hope I do as well when I go out. And her dress was cute and I wished I had one like it. :)

- Amy

[ErinSassyPants]

Giving NEWBIES the idea in thread after thread that JD public will bust and embarass them if they don't get everything just perfect and "pass/try to pass" helps no one and is simply not true.


I think I get where you're going with this thread and I'll say that I don't scrutinize anyone. The people around me are just part of the scenery and I think that most people these days pay even less attention than me. I think most people these days are so wrapped up in their own stuff that they don't really see other people for the most part.

As someone who is aware of CDs and Ts of all flavors I do occasionally notice someone but only when I am interacting with them, not just passing them in a store. For instance I went to a super cuts type place once and my hair dresser was T. I thought about saying something supportive but in the end decided that she didn't need to know that I noticed and that feeling like people were "clocking her" as someone said would not help her feel more comfortable.

But the fact is that the people most likely to notice are the people who are aware of Ts and that seems like the most accepting bunch. Other people it's just not on their radar and they would probably not be "sure" enough to say anything in most cases. There is a f2m that I know and I had an idea he was T after spending time with him but I was there when someone else we both know(who had known him for years longer than me) found out he was Trans and that other person was stunned. It was not on his radar so he didn't see it.

Of course you have to be careful for your safety, but I firmly believe while dressed you need to act like you are a woman and not go where it's not safe for a woman alone to go at that time. If you are not sure what might fit that, ask a GG you know.

[DebbieL]

I look more closely at people who dress WELL, this includes BOTH men and women. I also look at other patterns, such as speech, mannerisms, and phrases.

A really attractive man can usually trip my "gaydar", and sometimes I'll even flirt back, or do other things that will let him know he's not alone.

When I see a really attractive woman, I look at what makes her attractive, how has she done her hair, her wardrobe, her make-up. I consider whether I could pull off that look or not. Often, it's something like "That's a beautiful dress! I wonder where she got it? I wonder if they have it in plus sizes? I wonder, how many pounds I would have to lose to look that good in that outfit? Can I have the salad instead of the steak today?

When I realize that a beautifully dressed woman isn't a genetic girl, I do notice, and often wait until she gives me the sideways glance. If I'm in "boy mode", I'll give her the nod of appreciation, if I'm in "girl mode", I'll return the sidelong glance with the tilt, the token courtsey. It's a way of saying "Well Done". I know it took courage for her to be out here, especially if she's a bit too cute, and I want to honor that courage, without alerting others.

When I see an attractive woman, I do the same, again because I want to acknowledge her courage for being so beautiful and glamorous, especially in situations where so many women seem to have dressed exclusively for comfort.

[kimdl93]

I honestly don't scrutinize anyone so closely. I'll notice an attractive woman and her outfit. When I have noticed someone who might have been CD,I kept that to myself.

[Beverley Sims]

I am sorry I do not have the time to wonder what is happening to others all the time.
Sounds like a lot of overthinking to me.

[DeidraDee63]

I try my best to treat everyone with respect because that is the way I hope to be treated. I personally know of FtoM only because I saw his story in the media; I respect him for his position and when we have had an occasion to interact it has always been in a professional sense and I have done that also in passing with him. I think most do but I have seen some who act nice to him but speak behind his back. We do not know each other personally but I admire his courage and will defend his right against those who do otherwise. I have no problem in talking with him and the couple times I have I treated him as the man I saw and the male he is.

[reb.femme]

................ but didnt have any facial hair, medium hands/fingers and I couldnt spot an adams apple. Here voice was androgynous. I still dont know if it was a Mtf or a true female,...........

Isn't it so easy to hate the fortunate. :heehee:

I certainly go with the view that the average Joe isn't looking for a CD whilst out and I don't either. If I have seen either an FTM or MTF in the last year, they've passed me by.

I did meet a FTM in a pub in London a couple of years back. He engaged me in a classic UK conversation whilst at the bar, reference the usual lack of bar staff and we both went on our merry way after eventually being served.

Reb

[Wildaboutheels]

Q for all the folks who think along the lines of..."there is a right way to CD". [I am talking MtF]

I have to wonder...

Maybe the deal is, you have never in YOUR entire life met a GG who does/is doing "something" wrong. Like maybe her voice is simply "wrong" for a female. Too deep for instance. Or she has no hips to speak of or a "man's hips and a$$"? Or SHE walks "like a man"? Or she has the "mannerisms" of a man? Were YOU kind enough and good enough to tell HER what SHE was doing "wrong"?

I have met numerous GGs with these qualities. Does not make then any less of a woman. Nor does just HOW they dress themselves when out in public.

[Sabrina133]

this is an interesting question coming from you WAH. A few weeks ago i posted a thread about seeing someone who was obviously not trying to pass but dressed in women's attire (corset, fishnets, short shorts, heels, wig) - am sure some of you will remember. I seem to remember your comment back to me was Live and let live or words to that affect. I agree with that philosophy - always have. Even if i were to recognize someone as a CD, I would never make a comment (as i didn't make one to that indifivudal i saw on the street) about appearences or look unless they were to specifically ask me. When i do comment to other girls, its usually to compliment them and its usually in an area where CDs are likely to be -- TG friendly bars and clubs.

As for looking at someone over specifically, like others here, what usually causes me to look at a woman is not an attempt to see if shes a guy in a dress but because she is wearing something i might wear and am admiring her for it. As an aside, the first few times i did that with my partner along side, i had to explain that i wasn't really looking at the woman but admiring her femininity, dress etc. After she hit me on the side of the head or poked me in the ribs a few times, she finally understood.

As to your question immediately below -- last year, partner and I were at a hotel/spa enjoying a weekend away. We were down at the lobby when i saw a very nicely dressed woman walking in front of me. She simply couldn't walk in her heels. Jenn, my partner, leaned over and told me i walked better in heels than this woman did (and she was right).

It was merely an observation and no, we didn't say anything to her.

[heatherdress]

I don't get this post either (but I don't get a lot of things). I don't think I "scrutinize" people, men or women, or "judge" WOMEN, or consciously try to "bust" anyone to determine if they really are males. I really don't care and I don't think about anyone "misrepresenting" their true sex, whatever that means.

[ronny0]

I don't get this post either (but I don't get a lot of things). I don't think I "scrutinize" people, men or women, or "judge" WOMEN, or consciously try to "bust" anyone to determine if they really are males. I really don't care and I don't think about anyone "misrepresenting" their true sex, whatever that means.

I agree with the above, BUT I also enjoy people watching. As such, I don't try to find anyone / anything. I do take note that their are a lot of girls / women that IMO could pass as guys w/o much effort. Same for guys passing for girls. Plenty of the younger generation can blend in to not show gender. Also plenty of the over 50 crowd could do the same. I know I look more like a frog than a prince / princess and when I do my people watching it makes me feel good that we all come in different shapes / sizes / shades / genders. Not that I don't have a list of looks that I like, but the person sitting next to me would have another list. Different strokes for Different Folks. Live and let live. BUT "don't try to force me to................"

[Sarah Beth]

I would never "bust" anyone who was out in the real world, because, although I don't go out dressed I wouldn't want someone to do that to me even if they were friendly.

That being said several years ago I was in Trinidad Colorado and at that time a Dr. there was doing a lot of surgeries for gender reassignment there. There were a number of pre op transgendered working in various places there. Although a lot of the obvious tourists passing through seemed to think it strange and worth snickering or jabbering about the locals just seemed to take it all in stride. As for me I thought it was commendable of them to be out there working and leading their lives.

There was one other time when I saw someone out. I was in Amarillo, Texas about five years ago doing some Christmas shopping with my wife. I saw this woman (She was nearly passable but the adams apple gave her away) in the Layne Bryant store and she seemed to get a kick of me sweater shopping with my wife. (No we were not there to buy anything for me) Later on I saw her again at Sears and smiled at me and made a comment about how nice it was for me to not object to shopping in women's departments with my wife. I just smiled back and told her the real shame of it all was that I wasn't shopping there for something for me. Our conversation ended there as a salesperson arrived about that time.

If she hadn't spoken to me first I would have never said anything to her. Later on my wife asked me if I thought the gal was really a guy? I told her it didn't matter much because whoever she was she was nice looking

[Jorja]

I don't know if scrutinize is the right word but if I see a really cute guy or girl pass by me I make sure they hear me say, Ohhhhh, cute!;)

[I Am Paula]

Am I the only one who finds the original post offensive? Misrepresentation. Going out spotting presentation failures, and then pointing them out. Some old saying about casting the first stone.
We're all beautiful. Don't rain on anybodies parade.

[Tina B.]

First, why would I be looking for that, If a trans man, or women, is out there, I'm not trying to bust anyone, hope there having a good day.
Now I will admit I will check out some ones outfit if it catches my eye, but as the sex of who is wearing it, that's not important, just how well they pull off the outfit, and whether there is something I can learn about fashion from it.

[Cheryl T]

1) When out in public I rarely look at men, be it for how they are dressed or any other reason unless they stand out somehow...like biker leathers, tons of tats or something. I always observe women, especially those in my age group and size to see what they are wearing and whether it works or not and to determine if that look might work for me.

2) If I see someone that I recognize (there are "tells" that we all know) as presenting the opposite gender from birth then I do nothing. I may scrutinize them as I do other women to see what gave them away besides what I first observed, but I never say or do anything to let them know that I know...it's just not polite in my opinion.