new member story

[kittypw GG]

I knew from the begining that my husband had an interest in wearing panties. I found it somewhat exciting. His feelings about crossdressing were not very developed. I think he only owned one skirt when we met (and not a very attractive one either) Over time we developed it together. I gave him his fem name and most of his clothes, actually I bought all of it. Wigs, makeup etc. Over time the crossdressing just took over. I felt that it became a life of its own. It became less and less about me and more and more about him. I felt that I was disapearing in the relationship. I felt like a personal assistant rather than a partner. I spent so much time fixing him up that I ran out of time to fix myself up or I was too exhausted to spend much time on myself. In other words it became a burden. Then one day he decides that he was going to loose his mind. He started going to a counselor who was considered the local authority on gender identity issues. She told him that he could start taking hormones right away and told him where to go. Now keep in mind that he had just quit drinking (he was a pathological drinker) and was comming out of a fog. My life started to spin out of control and became very crazy. I went to a session with my husband and the counselor said with a big smile on her face "______ doesn't want his penis" I got physically ill and could not believe my ears. Up to that point he always told me he was a heterosexual crossdresser. Now I find out that he wants boobs????? He is thinking about sexchange???? I wanted a divorce. I am absolutely sure that if he were to alter his body in a perminate way I would no longer be interested in continuing a relationship. After all I am not a lesbian. I continued to participate in the crossdressing for a while after this traumatic event but now it had moved into the unknown. It became so scary. Along with the fear came a distaste for the whole idea. It became so unhealthy that my husband started to yell at me almost daily and threaten to leave me because of my lack of participation. Now let me tell you this behavior did not warm me up to the idea. Now he wants me to believe that he is just a crossdresser and not interested in changing his sex. I am not sure. How do I trust that he is being honest? It felt like a betrayal and now I mistrust him and I don't know if he is honest. I don't really know what to do. I know that the first step is that he listen to my fears without yelling at me. He needs to know how this has affected me. He wants things to go back to the way that they were. I am taking my time. I am trying trust him again. I am trying to develope some boundries to protect my identity and feminity. I also need a husband. I love all of the things that make him the man I married. I love all of the hair, the muscles the height difference. This is my fantasy or fetish if you will. I deserve to have hapiness and fullfillment also. I need to have time to heal my pain and he needs to give me that time and do the work that it takes to gain my trust back. He needs to be open and honest about who he is and cut the bullshit. I don't want to be unhappy for the rest of my life nor do I want to make him unhappy. I just want equality. I want him to give to me what he is asking me to give to him. Seems simple but how do you get past the emotions to really make a deal that will work? Kitty

[Helana]

Hmmmm.....

You say you bought all his clothes and wigs and spent all your time fixing him up then you are surprised this took on a life if its own....

You say the local gender councilor said he could start on hormones straight away, that does not sound like any specialist to me...

Now you have come here to find some answers to your questions. Should you not have found this out at the beginning?

Kitty, your story is very unusual. I think the two of you need counciling together to work out where both of you stand.

[ChristineRenee]

I agree with Helana. Any comments or advice that you get on this forum is subject to being skewed one way or the other. Only a counselor...preferably a gender specialist/marital counselor can look at this completely objectively here. The t-girls here like myself will have have certain pre-dispositions as will the GG's. The answers lie somewhere in between.

[TVStevie]

Kitty, you are right to say that your needs are as important as your husbands.

In my case, and if this is too graphic then please feel free to delete/edit where necessary, mods - I really enjoy the dressing/role-playing in the bedroom, as I find that it enhances my enjoyment. I'm not as fetishistic as to be unable to perform without dressing, but if it were solely up to me, I would dress for bed every time. For my wife, it's the other way around - she tolerates me dressing occasionally in the bedroom, but prefers me to be completely unclothed. Like yourself, she finds my masculine features to be as big a turn-on as I find her (and my) femininity.

For as unromantic as it sounds, I'm trying to negotiate some sort of rota system whereby we each get a bit of what we want. I value my relationship too much to be as selfish as to insist on my own gratification 100% of the time. However, I don't want to leave myself feeling bitter and resentful due to not fulfilling my own wants and needs. Therefore, to 'take turns', as it were, seems to be the only viable option, because then neither of us will feel short-changed. As I said, it's hardly a spur-of-the-moment, heat of passion-type thing, but we've been together for 15 years and that sort of went when we had kids anyway!

All I can say is that I hope you can negotiate something that you're happy with in your relationship and if not, seriously question if this is the relationship for you. I wouldn't expect anyone to stay in a relationship where they are unfulfilled and unhappy and if your needs are so unimportant to him, then does he deserve to be with you?

[DonnaT]

Kitty, it appears to me that what went on with your husband is known as "gender euphoria". Think of a two year old being set loose in a candy store.

Top that with what appears to be a bad counselor, and his detoxing from drinking, and you have one confused man.

Maybe the euphoria has finally abated and he has come to his senses. If so, you can probably trust him when he says he no longer feels the need to change sex or take hormones.

A good marriage counselor (one who listens and does not take sides) with knowledge in the field of transgenderism/crossdressing can be a help if you are having trust issues.

Some info on the net:

http://www.avitale.com/socomingout.htm

http://members.fortunecity.com/melanie4/couple.htm

http://www.rural-america.net/sopage/

http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?p=476

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Stonewall/8505/sg_wifetale.html

[TGMarla]

Hi, Kittypw and welcome to the Forum. We aren't "experts", but there are a lot of us and as a result, we encompass a lot of experience together. Strength in numbers!

As with anything that spins wildly out of control, like whipping someone around on water skis, it's easy to lose control and crash. It would seem that the whole gender-swap game you two were playing did just that. He got so overwhelmed by the whole thing that it took over for a bit. Ask yourself these questions: Do you like being a woman? What is it that you like about being a woman? Would you trade it for anything? Many women are very comfortable in their skins, and the role of being a woman is good for them. When some men try it out, even if it's only pretend, they find that they really like it, too. Then the idea of making it permanent seeps in, and sometimes it takes over. It developes a focus and the idea becomes obsessive. This is the whip effect. A crash is often inevitable.

But when the effects of the crash come to surface, the pain suffered by the spouse, divorce, loss of lifestyle...all for the right to prace around in dresses and heels as it were...reality can spin around and settle in again. It's likely that as appealing as a life as a woman may seem (and believe me, we all think about it here to some degree) the pain and loss involved often outweighs the gain. We realize then that our lives as men are good, too. It has its advantages just like women have with theirs. And they compliment each other very nicely, especially when the relationship is a healthy one.

He's likely at the point where reality has come back. The thought of changing his sex has been replaced by the thought that simple crossdressing can and will fulfill his needs in that area. You see, crossdressing part-time and being a man full time can give him the best that is available to him in his world, especially with an accepting spouse. He can be the man he needs to be for you, and the woman he needs to be for himself. When his feminine needs are met, he can change clothes, and be a man again.

You are right in being cautious. After a crash, people drive more carefully for a while. You should too. But you should approach the situation with a goal of granting that trust, as long as the old whip effect doesn't come around again. Set some ground rules and stick to them. Dialogue. Open conversation. This will lead to trust, and trust can lead to happiness.

[melissacd]

Kitty,

I am so sorry to hear that an acceptiong wife has had that acceptance taken advantage of by her husband and his counselor. In the thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19746 we talk about some of the issues with an SO's acceptance. I know for my own self acceptance is sticky issue. It sounds like you have given plenty of acceptance, more than many have gotten. As another has stated, he has had the kid in a candy store experience. Like any child he has continued to push the limits and you have not drawn any boundaries.

I am a strong advocate for accepting a spouse as they are. The key is that that has to work both ways. I am not opposed to limits or rules, I am opposed to not accepting a person for who they are. If spouses cannot accept and find a way to come to a mutual agreed solution then perhaps it is time to bring an end to it. Now that being the worst case scenario, what needs to happen first is a dialog. You need to open the lines of communication between the two of you. The two of you need to see a "good marriage counselor who understands transgender issues and who will not take sides" (as stated earlier).

To regain trust you have to talk together about this. You have to work out something that gives both of you what you want. You have to come up with something that is mutually acceptable.

I can certainly understand, based on the description that you have provided, how your trust and willingness to accept his cross dressing have been shattered, however, if you go the opposite extreme of non-acceptance then, in my opinion, you are dooming your marriage.

Your husband has demonstrated he has a need and that need must be fulfilled. You also have needs that must be fulfilled, you must also state where you want to draw the line. I suspect that part of the issue is that you did not express your needs in the beginning and he has pushed to see how far you would let him go. Now that you are taking it all away he is unhappy. Based on what you allowed before I can understand why he would be unhappy. I am not saying that what he did was right, just that I can understand why he is upset.

There has to be a middle ground. You must come to an agreement on how to fulfill both parties needs, that is what makes for a happy and healthy marriage.

I wish you the best of luck in working through this very complex issue and you know that you always have the moral support of the people in this forum.

Huggs
Melissa

[MsJanessa]

Hi Kitty---as you can see by my photo I do like to crossdress and I do think I'm pretty good at it---I also have a lot of Transexual freinds and after 52 years of this earth and talking with them I'm sure I don't want to change my gender---also I prefer femmes, not the butches as sexual partners---there are many CD/TGs who are like me---don't let the counseller scare you--I can't imagine that a trained, knowledgable person would actually tell you that or even suggest it to your spouse after what appears to be a rather short period of counselling. If you would like to talk more feel free to e-mail me. Janessa

[BrendaChristine]

There are a lot of Quacks out there, preying on vulnerable people, and sadly people in our community can be the most vulnerable. I have had some limited experience with counseling, not all of it positive. A lot of times a good friend or two is worth 10 counselors. I hope it all works out for you. I wonder if the"counselor" you saw was going to refer you to one of his associates for futher treatment..and maybe a big fee.

[kittypw GG]

Thanks for all of your comments. First I want to say that what I am surprised about is that my husband had no self control. I am surprised that he had little respect for my feelings. I totally agree that I am largly to blame for this taking place. I was not strong enough to set boundries and I left it up to him. I gave away my power and became resentful. I have to admit that I am a little codependent (hence becoming involved with an alcoholic). Now the question is what do I do? Every counselor that my husband goes to refers him back to the one who outed him by telling me he did not want his penis after less than 5 sessions. we live in a small community and in the midwest and the resources are limited. We have started some dialogue with out yelling but sometimes he lacks the patients it will take to heal and develop a good relationship. I also picked out some panties that he could wear over the weekend. So I really am trying but I am cautious. Out of all of this I know that if he were to change sexes I am not a big enough person to stay. I keep trying to get him to work on a list involving the crossdressing that would reasonably satisfy him but he is kind of tight lipped.

[Phoebe Reece]

First I want to say that what I am surprised about is that my husband had no self control.
Kitty, from everything you've said, the lack of self control is at the very heart of the problem with your husband. His lack of self contol showed up in his drinking problem. His lack of self control took him down a path towards a sex change. His lack of self control has him yelling at you. His lack of self control is preventing him from creating a limited list of crossdressing activities. Although he may be trying to get some control back over his life(giving up drinking is a positive sign of that), he is going to need some help to do it.

You need to protect some basic rights of your own. You need to insist that discussions be civil and respectful without any yelling. You need to make sure he understands that the relationship is over if he decides to cut anything off that won't grow back. Think about it carefully and you give him some crossdressing activities that you know you can tolerate. He seems unable to set the limits, so you need to do it for him. Negotiate on some issues if necessary. If those limits don't work after trying them for awhile, re-negotiate new terms.

You mentioned "his" counselors several times. What about a counselor for yourself? The one who is promoting SRS for your husband is obviously pursuing some agenda of her own. Just because she may be the only one in your area that has detailed knowledge of gender issues does not neccessarily make her qualified to give good counseling. You need some professional that can deal with your needs.

[melissacd]

Kitty,

There has been a great deal of great insight offered here. It is such a wonderful community that they care enough to provide thoughtful, caring advice. To the question what do you do?...there is no silver bullet, no magic potion, no pat answer. There are many things you can do:

- open a dialog with him and tell him how you feel, if he yells then walk away until he stops, no one has to accept being yelled at
- find a counselor for yourself and learn how to become independent, learn how to develop a sense of self esteem that enables you to set reasonable limits and stick to them
- come up with your set of acceptable limits, ask him for his and negotiate something that is agreeable to both of you
- be clear about what you will do if he makes surgical alterations

I realize that this is a simplistic and incomplete set of steps to address a very complex problem, however, you have to make a start somewhere.

Huggs
Melissa

[Christina Nicole]

Kitty,

You said that he say the local expert on gender issues. I have found, both from talking to others and from my own experience, that some of these experts are quacks. Their business is the gender business. If they don't have paying clients, they don't eat. The best way to have paying clients is to tell them what they want to hear. Saying, "Go home. Don't obsess over your crossdressing, just do a little once in a while. Compromise with your wife; be a good boy." does not bring home any bacon. The expert has an out, too. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, knows the right things, the textbook things to say to a therapist to be diagnosed GID. You can't help but to know. There are web sites everywhere with the necessary information.

You need to find an unbiased person to help both of your save you marriage.

Warmest regards,
Christina Nicole

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I agree with much of what's already been said, so I'll just point out that in addition to the possibilty of a period of "gender euphoria" it's quite common for addicts who stop one form of addiction to substitute another. (I've seen ex-drug addicts who started smoking several packs a day, or start eating complusively, etc.) So it's entirely possible that was a contributing factor to your husband going off the deep-end.

Also for what it's worth, it sounds like he was a serious drunk and I've heard (although I don't know for sure) that it can take months after they've stopped drinking to truly return to normal. So it's possible he's finally returning to his sense in more ways than one.

As others have said, I think you'll benefit from a counselor of your own -- as well as a counselor for the two of you.

[kaliope]

have fun and go shopping. This will only spice your sex life

[Marla GG]

Hi Kitty,

Your story is not as unusual as some might think. A lot of wives and girlfriends, when they first find out about their partner's crossdressing, have the impulse to "help." When it dawns on you that the man you love has been carrying this burden of guilt and shame all his life, and that he desperately needs your understanding and acceptance, you naturally want to do whatever you can to heal the hurt and make him happy. So you jump in with both feet and start buying him clothes and makeup, participating in his dressing activities, and trying in every way you can think of to show him that you care. And this is where it all goes terribly wrong, because he misunderstands your actions and starts to think that you actually enjoy crossdressing and want him to do more of it, when in fact you are only trying to demonstrate your love and support.

If you are married to a golf nut, you might go out and buy him some fancy clubs or shoes because you know how much he will appreciate them....but that doesn't mean you like golf. It also doesn't mean you will be pleased if he starts spending all your disposable income on his hobby, or wants to do it every weekend instead of spending time with you. So why do some crossdressers think that a gift of panties or an offer from their SO to help them dress up means total acceptance and a green light to go as far as they want? I think that this basic misunderstanding accounts for many of the situations we hear about on this forum, where an SO initially seems very accepting but then starts to feel differently when the crossdressing escalates beyond what she was prepared to deal with.

You've gotten a lot of excellent advice here Kitty. I agree that you need to decide what your boundaries are and communicate them to your husband. Hopefully he will see that respecting them is essential to rebulding the trust in your relationship and getting back to a place where you are both comfortable.

[lydia7]

Thank you Marla GG...! I was hoping that a GG could offer some useful advice and you hit the subject squarely (ahem) "off the tee" so to speak. Many women we all know tend to be enablers of their partners and get frustrated by his willingness accept and revel in the problems they help create. The key word here is balance...your support is admirable. On the other hand, what about the things you need and his ability (and willingness) to enable YOU? I have seen pics of girrls here that look stunning enfem and as gender males. There is time and place for both. Set those guidelines and accept nothing less, Kitty. If you want equal partnership--be an equal partner. Perhaps a candle-light dinner at home together to discuss your love and goals is in order...?