How do you feel about women?

[ErinSassyPants]

I find myself wondering what effect dressing like, presenting as or feeling inside yourself to be a woman has on your feelings about and views of women.

So my questions are

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)?

Can you think of a specific experience that changed your views on women or what their lives may be like?

How do you think you see women differently than cismales?

Is there something you admire more about women because of your experiences?

Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?

[noeleena]

Hi,

Dressing has not had an effect on myself the only detail was i hated male clothes .that does not mean i wonted to wear female clothes ,

How do i see women much the same as i allways have,

my views are pretty much the same now as its been over many years,
i dont see women any different because im not a male,

What other women have well most any way is a womb so one could have given birth to my child .

Being a Feminist depends on what women you are talking about 1860' - 1920's & why they did what had to be done because men have allways treated us as 2nd class, could not own land or house's & goods, no right to vote it was a male dominated world sex rape abuse & i know first hand what a man did to my Mother & I. be killed or flee .

we did the flee, iv stoped & stood between in one case a male who was abusive to another woman so i stoped him till we had the Police arrive, Jos took the woman in . so if you are thinking along those lines then yes i am , im not interested in the later group of around the 70's. & what iv seen over the last 40 odd years, they dont have any standing as far as im concerned,

As youll gather im a female born a bit different thats all. intersexed, so i see things only as a woman, that of cause does not rule out what maleness i have about myself, any ways it does not matter at all im well accepted in our socity & the different communitys im a member of.

I dont see myself as a feminine female . though others say i am. allthough im just a normal female yet many know my background & iv told most people so thats well documented , part of what i was about as to public relasions , so if you are well known it makes sence to be open as i have been thats why i have as many friends as i have going back 55 years, they know who i am they all so accept my difference so over all theres no issues,

...noeleena...

[Paula_56]

I admired and respect women. that's why I want to be like them. Going out into the world enfemme, I've learned that world are held to a double standard, they need to be tough, competetive, but also feminine, it's a strange conundrum. I've also learned that women are judge more on their appearnace and that all women are concerned about this, and it takes much more work everyday to present female.

[suzy1]

Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?


Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women so I have always been a feminist.

Dressing or not we should all be femanists.

[Rachelakld]

From as young as I can remember, women have always been beautiful, especially the older and wiser ones.
I like fem women, not the trouser wearers
Am I a feminist, well if I had a choice, I would prefer an adult at home for my kids after school, I would have liked to have enough income for wife to be a house wife, better still if we could both afford to be home for the kids, and later a yacht in the Med.

[Beverley Sims]

When I was younger I was shown a gift that I had not realised I had.
How to emulate a woman successfully.
As I aged so that gift slipped away.
If you have it use the gift now whilst you can.
I have the utmost respect for women because of it.

[Tina B.]

I don't think I can give an honest answer to this question. I started dressing so young, I'm not sure I had feelings about women versus people in general back then.
I like women, have all my life, as a child, when the menfolk gathered in the living room, and the ladies gathered in the dinning room, or really big kitchen with table an chairs. You would always find me around the kitchen listening and enjoying the talk, smells, and pretty clothes. The living room smelled of cigarettes and man smells, kitchen was better.
Still prefer the company of women to that of men. They are more likely to be talking about things I care about, instead of job and sports.
I admire a women that is well put together, and I really appreciate a smart women that can carry on a smart conversation, but then I like that in a guy too.
Around here, I here the work Admire used a lot, I don't, but then Admire is not a word I use, to much like putting them on a pedestal, people shouldn't stand on pedestals if you fall you could get hurt.
I really see women just like I see men. I have met many fine lady's I do admire, as individuals. Smart, Accomplished, and kind, what's not to admire.
I respect most women, to me that's better than admire, respect is earned not given.
I have no use for a foul mouth rude, crude, or women that is so full of herself, she thinks of no one else, yes I have know such women.
Now having said all that, let me add one more thing, I judge men by the same rules!

[Kate Simmons]

I don't see women as a group per se but see each person as a unique individual. That being the case, my own personal experiences with expressing femininity have only served to enhance my appreciation of female folks in a positive way.:battingeyelashes::)

[anneob2002]

Women? They are everything that is good in this world.

[Nikki A.]

I appreciate the time and effort it takes to look put together. I guess that going through the routine makes it more obvious.
As far as being a feminist I would have to say that I've always believed that a person should be judged & paid on their merits not on their sex, so I guess that makes me a feminist. But on the other hand I hold the door open for a lady (does that make me a pig?).
I still have the most profound respect for the ladies that have transitioned. To go through the pain (mental and physical) the lost and broken relationships and trying to fit into the muggle society that we must live in, is more than I would ever care to go through. But as long as they find the peace that they seek then I guess it is worth all the pain.

[Angela Campbell]

How do I feel about women? I kind of like them. They are really the only people I care to be around or have much to do with. Always been that way.

[imsandy]

My answers:

I don't think I see women differently now than before CDing... although I have wanted to CD as a young child, so maybe that's an unfair question. :)

I don't think I see women differently from cismales except that when I look at a woman, I notice what she's wearing more than most normal males and I sometimes want to be her as well as with her... a weird combination of feelings.

I do consider myself a feminist, but that's because I grew up in a family of mostly women (only other male in my life was my father) so I was exposed to their point of view on a regular basis.

[Lorileah]

I find myself wondering what effect dressing like, presenting as or feeling inside yourself to be a woman has on your feelings about and views of women.

So my questions are

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)?

yes. Very much so. When I first started online (old days, AOL) I found out quickly that women were seen as sexual objects, not people by a vast number of men. That was lesson 1. Other lessons, how females are not safe everywhere they go. How women get less respect on many things from opinions to jobs to daily life. How gender roles are firmer in male's minds than women's. How more men believe they have entitlements based on a certain piece of anatomy. hat many men think that if they want something strength will make it theirs. Oh yes it was and still is an education


Can you think of a specific experience that changed your views on women or what their lives may be like? The first time a male decided that I "Wanted" sex contrary to what I really wanted. I consider my life right now to be what most women went through when they were say 16. I am learning a WHOLE bunch about how women are seen in daily life.



Is there something you admire more about women because of your experiences? how much more inner strength they have to have. How much more tolerance they have to have


Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female? 100% Maybe a humanist would be a better idea though That no matter what your gender (or color or lifestyle or belief system or financial status...etc), everyone is equal and you should not HAVE to work for the same rights and privileges as anyone else

[MysticLady]

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)

That they're not as pretty as they present themselves too be. Some are beautiful from sunup to sundown. Very Rare that a woman is completely beautiful w/o any beauty ingredients.



Can you think of a specific experience that changed your views on women or what their lives may be like??

Yes. Getting all dolled up is a lot work for most of us.



How do you think you see women differently than cismales?


A woman is the only one I can make Love too.



Is there something you admire more about women because of your experiences?


Self Grooming. I admire the fact that women are really conscious of themselves regarding grooming and presentation.



Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?

Not really. I respect women for who they are and the fact that they can bear us children. Once a mother, then my respect two folds for what they experience bearing and leading a child.

[renee elizabeth]

i've always had a lot of respect and admiration for women, which is part of the reason why i dress, i know the effort it takes to get all dolled up, i can feel the pressure for me to be thinner just like most women do.

[mikiSJ]

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women so I have always been a feminist.

Dressing or not we should all be femanists.

I cannot add very much to what Suzy has just posted. I think my similar thoughts date back to the '70s and are not really related to my gender transition.

[stephNE]

Dressing or not we should all be feMANists.

Very funny Suzy!

[julia marie]

Erin. Great questions. Here are a few things I've noticed when I'm out (in drab).
In hot weather I'm jealous of women wearing light skirts and feathery blouses while I'm stuck wearing heavier men's clothes. (Of course, being a guy I still think of other things when I see them in their best summer wear).
I have new respect for women who manage perfect makeup, and I wonder how long it takes them to do it in the morning.
Ditto, respect for women who cruise around in heels like they were born with them.
I'm not sure if I would call myself a feminist (or call any other guy a feminist) because it implies that I understand a woman's world. That would be unfair to the women, although I'm with them on most of the political/social issues raised by feminists.
One more thing on clothing etc., I'm impressed by how even average looking women can look good in so many different situations and environments by doing little things such as having their hair up or down, adding a scarf or other accessory, etc. They are experts at mix and match.

[marlenesexton]

I'm not sure it's changed my view on women. I don't like the term feminist because it's been co-opted by certain people with a particular political agenda that doesn't necessarily benefit women but I suppose I'm one. I am old-fashioned, however, and I do believe men and women are different and each gender has a role in society. I'm not saying women can't be firemen or soldiers or that men can't be nurses or nannies, but most people fit into the roles and they are important to a functioning society. We shouldn't dismiss that in the name of absolute and unwavering equality.

I have changed my thoughts on homosexuality and transgenderism though. I've never been bigoted towards LGBT but I am more accepting of differing lifestyles. I've basically gotten to a place where I don't care what you do. If it makes you happy and you aren't hurting anyone, good for you. I think that might be part of getting older too. I feel that way about a lot of things. I used to think all those X-Games types, ski bums, artists, whatever were losers but after working a "normal" job and feeling like it was sucking my will to live and killing my soul, I've come to see those free-spirits as the smart ones. I think I was the loser for buying into the supremacy of normal.

[tiffanynjcd24]

I feel good about women actually. It is just I am having a hard time of finding one that understands my crossdressing lifestyle

[Princess Grandpa]

I suppose the biggest difference in how I look at women is I notice things I never did. Details about their clothing that I wouldn't have noticed before. I am still going to look at her tush as I hold the door open, but I will notice her shoes too /shrug

I am not a feminist as much as a supporter of equal rights for all.

Hug
Rita

[whowhatwhen]

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)?


I'm more aware of how women are always getting the short end of the stick in life but I think that's more of a "growing up and seeing the real world" type of thing.



Can you think of a specific experience that changed your views on women or what their lives may be like?


I'd guess becoming aware of all the ***tty marriages around me and seeing how women are a lot of times basically unpaid servants.
I'm still at home so from then on I do a tonne more housework and do all the cooking, but it still won't make up for all the time before that point.



How do you think you see women differently than cismales?


Easiest thing really, I'm not wired to see women in a sexual context so I'd like to thing I'm immune to a lot of the BS that I hear about.
Then again growing up male is going to leave an imprint that I just won't see whether I like it or not.

It's kinda why I laugh at all the "DAMN FRIENDZONE!" type stuff on the internet.
:)

[GaleWarning]

I love women. Being a teacher and having so many female colleagues, I have the view that we are all equal, with our own individual strengths and weaknesses. We are all human.

I am envious of the huge degree of freedom that my female colleagues have when dressing for work. But then again, I am conscious of the facts that most of them dress for comfort and that most of them wear stuff that is rather androgynous and not always flattering or even pretty.

But when someone is dressed to kill, I sure sit up and take notice!
:eek:

[Alice Torn]

There's females, there's women, and then, the rarer ones, the ladies. I respect real ladies a lot more than females and women. I like to imitate ladies. I have had bad wxperiences with the others at times, who have no desire to become ladies.

[whowhatwhen]

See, you're gonna run into a bit of trouble with that line of thinking.

"Acting like a lady" is often a way for men to express how women should act for their benefit.
ie. Submissive, knows her place, goes out of her way to be attractive for men, and so on.

Now women are free to act how they feel and that doesn't mean being a toy for men to leer at.
I respect women who take their rightful place as equals and demand respect from society.

IMO The most powerful women are the ones who aren't acting as "ladies".

Edit:
I've not studied feminism so if I'm misguided please throw some corrections my way.
:)

[Leah Lynn]

I love the ladies! However, to me, "acting like a lady" means not spitting tobacco juice on the floor, or "scratching where it itches", to quote the great Hayden Fry. Things that the guys do when it's just the guys.

Leah

[whowhatwhen]

That's not fair though either.
I've known a few women who can be just as vulgar as men, in fact, I'd say both can be equal at times when it comes to that sort of thing.

Kinda reminds me of a post in the TS forum basically saying something like "they weren't women because they weren't acting like ladies".
Women shouldn't have their identities tied into being dainty and submissive.

[MysticLady]

Women shouldn't have their identities tied into being dainty and submissive.

That would be a woman that is a Lady. That, I find very attractive in a woman.

[kimdl93]

So much of what is often projected on women is an idealized or romanticized or fetishized fiction. What I know and admire about women derives from those I grew up with, loved and worked with. The quiet strength, ability to do what had to be done, a measure of selflessness and concern for others. Of course, none of these traits were unique to women...I saw them in men I respect as well...just not as often.

[ErinSassyPants]

See, you're gonna run into a bit of trouble with that line of thinking.

"Acting like a lady" is often a way for men to express how women should act for their benefit.
ie. Submissive, knows her place, goes out of her way to be attractive for men, and so on.

Now women are free to act how they feel and that doesn't mean being a toy for men to leer at.
I respect women who take their rightful place as equals and demand respect from society.

IMO The most powerful women are the ones who aren't acting as "ladies".

Edit:
I've not studied feminism so if I'm misguided please throw some corrections my way.
:)

I thought you said that very well. I would simply add a bit to your sentence.

IMO The most powerful women are *most often* the ones who aren't acting as "ladies" or at least are not trapped in the box of lady like.

There are some powerful women who do make use of the powerful perception of "lady like" to get stuff done some times.

[Alice Torn]

I could say that women becoming ladies, can be carried to boys and men becoming GENTLEMEN, cleaning up their acts. One thing i have learned by going out as a lady, is, that girls and women tend to feel like prey, sadly. Men are tormented by the fact, that they are often looked on, and feel like potential PREDATORS. Just tonight, I, pulled up to the post office, to check my box, at the same time someone else pulled up. I walked in and got my male, in drab. As i was leaving, a GG walked in, from her car, which had been there before mine. We made eye contact, and i said hi, but she looked scared and said nothing. This is a small town, too. I could tell she looked on me as a potential predator. This a great travesty, the state of fear between the sexes.

[GBJoker]

I think that I see women a little bit different than I used to. I've noticed that I've really started thinking that several GGs are using far more make up than they actually need, or they are putting too much effort into looking good, when they don't need to, etc. Other than that, I don't really notice any difference.

There is no specific experience that I'm aware of that influenced this.

I'm sort of guessing what the definition of "cismale" is when I answer this next question. I think I see more of the effort females put into looking good than other males. I dunno.

I don't think there is any difference in admiration now than before.

I am most definitely not a feminist.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm not sure. I haven't felt a woman in quite awhile!
Unless u count Sherry?

Seriously? The only thing that has effected my thots of women is when I was taken by some as a woman and treated like one at a vanilla function last Halloween. Women have it tough! And, most guys r jerks!

[whowhatwhen]

Funny you should mention gentlemen...
It's not as bad of a stereotype/societal expectation but it's still pretty harmful.

You have all these arbitrary "man rules" which stifle emotions in men and IMO emotional development in growing boys as well.
You know...

- Man up
- Don't cry
- Get into stereotypical manly activity (x)

I think you'd find a lot of those also deeply rooted into (NOT GAY) as well.
So essentially the same thing that makes men objectify women is the same thing hurting men in the long run as well.

[PaulaQ]

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)?

Not really - I pay more attention to their appearance an mannerisms now - detail stuff like makeup, clothing. I do notice that women smile a lot more to each other, and that there is a really pleasant gentleness about the way a lot of women approach each other, even if just to ask for some inconsequential question. I do find that I enjoy my experiences speaking with women / passing WAY more than the ones with men. It's OK when a guy doesn't clock me - I dunno, mostly I don't care. But when a woman treats me as another woman socially - now that is just priceless to me.


How do you think you see women differently than cismales?

I think so. If nothing else, women treat other women differently than they treat men, in general. (There are exceptions, of course.) Most guys would never be aware of this. I think there are a lot of nuances to women's emotions, and the way they approach each other, men, and life, that most guys are clueless about. (I'm not saying *I* understand all these either - maybe someday I'll kinda be in the ballpark. One can hope, anyway.) Some cismales are aware these nuances exist - they just don't understand them well, and often don't really care to understand them.


Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?

I certainly hope so! My views were mostly set long before I realized I was trans - when I was growing up, I watched the terrible problems my mother had on the job, and the blatant sexism and discrimination she faced. I thought it was horrible, and still do. It's better than it used to be - but we've a long way to go.

[Dianne S]

I am most definitely not a feminist.

I find that surprising... could you explain? I think it might depend on your definition of "feminist."

I consider "feminism" to be the belief that women should be entitled to the same rights and responsibilities as men and should where possible be treated equally. There are of course a few exceptions where the difference really matters (sports, certain jobs that require physical strength) but those situations are relatively rare.

[GBJoker]

Dawn

I feel like I suddenly have to attatch a massive neon sign flashing the words "Warning, Warning!" at the top of every one my posts.

Based on my experiences with the people I have interacted with in the past five years, a feminist is some one who wants female supremacy and domination. Yes, yes, make all you jokes about that real fast here, and get it out of your system. I would never align myself with any one who supports a mindset such as that. While I recognize the fact that there are many women and men who label themselves as "feminist" who are not the extreme of what I've encountered, they are already tainted in my mind, by those that are extreme. And quite frankly, when it's bad to make this joke, "Many people say women should remain in the kitchen. I disagree. Women should remain in the bedroom." But it's okay to make this joke, "That guy is clearly a 2 minute man. And that one is a one minute man. Lets all talk about them being minute men." Then there is something wrong in my opinion.

Really, my reasons for thinking this could cover several dozen pages, but this thread is neither the time or place I feel.

[PaulaQ]

I am most definitely not a feminist.

I think the joke may be on you.

[whowhatwhen]

Clearly jokes about sexual performance are equal to the thousands of years of the subjugation of women.
Sorry you feel that the playing field being leveled is female domination.

That being said there are extremes to feminism as well, some specifically fighting against trans rights.
Of course it would be ridiculous to write off feminism because of a few bad apples.

But I'll get the MRA funnies off my chest now since you asked...

MY LITTLE PONY
FEDORAS
NECKBEARDS
FRIENDZONE
REDDIT
MENS RIGHTS
FEMINAZIS
GB2KITCHEN

Am I missing some?

[GBJoker]

PaulaQ; It must be, because I don't understand any thing any one says on this site.

whowhatwhen: I'd really appreciate it if you didn't shove words into my mouth, or strawman my point of view just to shove me down.

[whowhatwhen]

Where did I do that?

[GBJoker]

I never said a level playing field is equal to dominance, nor anything remotely similar to that. I said that the feminists I have personally met want supremacy.

[whowhatwhen]

My bad then, I guess the opposite side of the coin I see is MRAs wanting male supremacy to remain in place.
*shrug*

[PaulaQ]

PaulaQ; It must be, because I don't understand any thing any one says on this site.


The joke is that it's possible that one day, you'll wake up, and realize "oh shit - I'm a girl." Happens to some of us. Hope it doesn't happen to you, but still - irony happens. My personal bet is that God is a 3 stooges fan.

[GBJoker]

whowhatwhen: Maybe there isn't a coin. Maybe it's far more gray than you'd like to admit.

PaulaQ: I still have no ****ing clue what you're saying.

God damn it, if I'm just going to get harrassed for posting anything, why am I even here?

[Lorileah]

I kind of understand Joker's point here but there is a reason it (feminism) seems so radical to many. It is part of the negotiation process. Women are 70% equal men in today's society. So they have to ask 50% more to get the 30% they need to be equal.

Women don't want domination (really...think about it would you say the same thing about a man who was aggressively seeking something?) and they don't want to subjugate men. But all the traits that people admire about "successful" men are what you see with feminists. I call it playing by the same ground rules.

[GBJoker]

Lorileah, that is NOT at all what I am saying!

The only feminists I have met in person are women and men who demand women get paid 200% of what men get paid. I refuse to allow myself to be associated with any one who thinks that, thus, I am not a feminist.

In my experience, women and men who want true female equality, and I cannot for the bloody life of me emphasize the word "equality" enough here; I mean, real, 100% complete equal-ness in all aspects of life, are actually HESITANT to label themselves "feminist," because the extremists.

And I'm just going to ignore that 70% thing.

[PaulaQ]

PaulaQ: I still have no ****ing clue what you're saying.

God damn it, if I'm just going to get harrassed for posting anything, why am I even here?

Hi GBJoker, I'm sorry if you feel I'm picking on you. I don't mean anything malicious by it, so I'll spell out what I'm saying. And again - I don't mean any harm by any of this, or to be mean to you.

You identified yourself as TG/TS in another post, right? So if you are TS, you may, one day, transition, and live your life as a woman, and discover what it is that women are complaining about. Here's a brief, real-world example. Years ago, my wife worked as tech support in a call center. She was actually quite good. Here's a typical interaction for her though:
Dude Caller: "I'm trying to get my printer to work in <blah blah configuration>
Wife: "I'm sorry, but that configuration won't do what you want, here's a workaround ..."
Dude Caller: <interrupts> "What the HELL are you talking about - you get me your manager on the phone right now, someone who knows what in the shit they are talking about!!!!!"
Wife: <puts call on hold> "Hey Phil, will you come tell this guy this workaround, he needs to hear it from someone with a penis"
Phil: "I'm sorry sir, this is Phil, her manager. Can you explain what you are doing to me?"
Dude Caller: <repeats dumbass attempt at printer configuration>
Phil: "Well sir, I'm sorry, but that won't work - here's a workaround for you <repeats what my wife was trying to tell him>"
Dude Caller: "Whoa, thanks! I didn't know that wouldn't work! Awesome, I appreciate your help."

There's lots more situations than that though, believe you me. *I* don't even know the half of it, and I only know what I do because I'm observant.

On my other snarky comment, about vibrators - masturbation is a big motivation for some to visit this forum. (Not you, I realize now). So it was kind of funny to hear someone from this forum be anti-masturbation for women. BTW, there's no reason to be intimidated if your future spouse owns a vibrator. Even married people masturbate, and it's way less threatening to your marriage than if she's with another guy, and anyway, some nights you might find yourself engrossed in a book about quantum mechanics, and just "not be that into it." Happens. Hard to believe now, I'm sure, but it happens.

Again, sorry if I have caused you any anxiety, I don't mean it - you seem like a nice person.


The only feminists I have met in person are women and men who demand women get paid 200% of what men get paid. I refuse to allow myself to be associated with any one who thinks that, thus, I am not a feminist.

There are crazy people in every belief system. Best not to judge any of them by the extreme examples. I'm sorry that's all you've met.

I don't know that anyone can ask for total equality - there are differences between men and women, and in some areas, they have different needs. However, the 30% uterus tax women pay in terms of their salary is offensive and HAS GOT TO GO.

[GBJoker]

PaulaQ: I understand fully that the situation your wife finds herself in is still some what common. But after having just now chain-smoked half a pack to try to cool off a bit, I realize this; clearly, we, and whowhatwhen and I... and maybe me vs dozens of others on this site, have such radically different viewpoints as to be completely irreconcilable, to the point where we may never understand each other. So... I'm done. I'm out.

I am not anti-women-masturbating. If a female is single, or dating some one who is cool with it/doesn't care, she can do it however often she likes. Five times a day, for all I care. And hell, I even encourage it, because of all the health benefits, which are far and away well documented.

The reason I would dump a girl, or guy for that matter, who masturbated while dating me is simultaneously simple and complex. I do not know how to make a person happy. I don't know what presents are acceptable in this society. I don't know what acts are acceptable. I am physically incapable of comprehending what I can do to make a person happy in a relationship. What I do know, is considered heavily stalkerish by today's standards, and... I just don't want to be arrested. So, in my mind, if I can't make the person I'm dating happy... in... physical aspects, then I have ultimately failed, 100% of the way. And I do have evidence and some proof that I will never be able to make a female physically happy in a relationship. Thus, assuming the hypothetical that I'm in a relationship with a girl, and she is masturbating or using sex toys, I will ALWAYS see that as a signal that I am failing. Failing at doing my job, or being a good boy/girlfriend, whatever I am anymore. Failing at being a good person, in general.

Now, if you will excuse me, I will leave this thread forever, and go bury my face in a pillow.

[Lorileah]

:idontknow: where did this go to what a person does in the privacy of their bedroom? And what has that to do with feminism? Don't reply to that Joker...it is so far off topic I will have to delete it. As Paula said, I am sorry that you met the extreme ends of the feminist spectrum.


Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. Feminism is and has always been a movement to get equal rights for females. I looked and cannot even find anything that says feminists want all the power and control. It has to do with changing laws and culture to be more balanced. To change culture sometimes you have to be more aggressive.

[MysticLady]

I think you'd find a lot of those also deeply rooted into (NOT GAY) as well.


These are the Guys you'll find in park restroom getting a fix.


Dawn

I feel like I suddenly have to attatch a massive neon sign flashing the words "Warning, Warning!" at the top of every one my posts.

Based on my experiences with the people I have interacted with in the past five years, a feminist is some one who wants female supremacy and domination. .

I know what you mean. These women have what you call "control issues". They just want too control you and have you at attention. If you meet a woman w/ this issue, you don't have too live with it or her just because it's your first piece of ass. That would be "pussywhipped".



The reason I would dump a girl, or guy for that matter, who masturbated while dating me is simultaneously simple and complex. I do not know how to make a person happy. I don't know what presents are acceptable in this society. I don't know what acts are acceptable. I am physically incapable of comprehending what I can do to make a person happy in a relationship.

Dude, your dreaming. We as men are not all that. Just because she wants a toy doesn't mean you've failed at a relationship. Or,is there something else your not telling us regarding your "build" that you feel that women will disown you because it?

[Leona]

I find myself wondering what effect dressing like, presenting as or feeling inside yourself to be a woman has on your feelings about and views of women.

So my questions are

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)?


Absolutely no difference at all. I already had a great deal of respect for what women put themselves through to be pretty, and I already had a solid feeling of equality with women and I desire to see that feeling encoded into law. I already loved women as they are, with or without hair on their legs, chins, and wherever else, with or without makeup, etc. And I was already strongly attracted to, shall we say, less mainstream women (including not only physical size but also what's between her ears). And I had already rejected all of the stereotypes and misogyny built in to our society.



How do you think you see women differently than cismales?


I generally like women more than men. Of my closest friends, only two are men. The women definitely outnumber the men. Around where I live, cisgender males are quite likely to also be male chauvinist pigs, and I really can't stand being around such people, whether they're male or female.



Is there something you admire more about women because of your experiences?


Not so much admire as envy. I'm envious that women get to be women all the time and nobody really has a problem with that, except the aforementioned male chauvinist pigs.


Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?

I used to. More recently I've determined I'm not really a feminist anymore because my eyes have opened to the ways that women get superior treatment over men, particularly when it comes to abusive relationships, getting out of them, and getting medical help dealing with them. So now I think I'm more of a humanist: all people should have the same rights.

[ErinSassyPants]

:raisedeyebrow:I swear I left a perfectly nice thread right here just last night...

Corinne, I totally agree about the gentleman stuff and the be a man which of course equals don't be gay! We are harming our boys and our men immeasurably in ways far less people examine than how we are harming our girls and women.

GBJoker, I know you said you have left the thread, if you happen back by I just wanted to introduce myself. Hello, I'm Erin and I'm a feminist. I don't want to dominate the world I only want to dominate...oh sorry wrong forum;) to be serious though I and the feminists I know have zero desire to have more than equal rights. Most of us are mothers and sisters and daughters and we have no interest in putting our sons and brothers and fathers and friends in the position of dealing with what we are currently dealing with. But I don't mind if you have issues with the term feminist, you are not alone. I can't tell you how often I hear people say "I am for equal rights but I'm not a feminist or anything" I don't understand that sentence but I understand that the media and maybe (I've never met women as you describe them and I meet alot of feminists) a few women who portray feminism as being about something besides equal rights for everyone. So if the word doesn't work for you that's ok. If you believe that people are equal without regard to their gender then I think that is more than many people can say.

[Brenda456]

I like women. Wouldn't mind being one.

[kathtx]

Yes, I'm a feminist. But since the word "feminist" seems to mean different things to different people, here's what I mean by it. It's about respecting people of both genders as individuals. I don't think anyone, male or female, should be forced into narrow roles on account of their gender. I think people should be treated respectfully in the workplace, regardless of gender. I think salaries should be set by performance and value of contribution, not by gender. Women, and men, should have the option of full-time careers, staying at home with the kids, or a part-time mix of both, and that choice may change with time. Not all women will make the same choice, but we should value the work they do regardless of whether it's running a company, flying an airplane, teaching a class, or raising a kid. Same goes for men. The right way to understand this is that some *people* want to run companies or teach kindergarten, raise kids or fly airplanes, become secretaries or become surgeons, and we should respect that choice regardless of the person's gender.

To a feminist, women are not better than men, nor are they worse. Women and men are different in many ways, similar in even more ways, but they both should have equal rights and equal voice in society, at work, and in a family.

To a feminist, women have the same rights to sexual expression as men. We should stop sending the message that it's a healthy part of growing up for men to sow some wild oats while simultaneously sl**-shaming sexually active women.

In short, to a feminist, women are people. "Humanism" might be a better word, but that already means something else (though I'm a "humanist" in that sense too).

For those who don't agree with feminism, I'm not going to get dragged into an argument about it here. This isn't the setting, and I don't have time for an extended argument. I will recommend the book "The Gender Knot" by Alan Johnson for a discussion of why its in the best interests of men, as well as women, to support feminism. For an eloquent one-line explanation of why it's in everyone's interest to be feminists, I'll paraphrase the poet A.D. Hope to say it's folly to think we can expect a servile womb to breed free men.

[Dianne S]

Based on my experiences with the people I have interacted with in the past five years, a feminist is some one who wants female supremacy and domination.

Ah, OK. So then we are just disagreeing about terminology. :) Your definition of feminist is no better than the worst kind of misogynist male and I too wouldn't support that. The reason I think people get less upset about it coming from women is that women are starting from a disadvantage IMO and need to be louder and more forceful than men to assert their rights and equality.

[mariehart]

My answer is no to all the questions except the last one when I would say yes I am a feminist. Sometimes that word is associated with militancy and extremism to the point where some women even deny they are feminist. But you can't be anything other than a feminist if you believe that women shouldn't be expected live their lives in a way that would be never be expected from a man. The fact is that despite considerable progress in the western world, women still suffer disadvantages that men never face. I get irritated hearing from white heterosexual males complaining how tough a time they're having and calling themselves a minority. Please!!!!

So if I was to suggest there was one thing I would admire about women it's their ability to get on with it in the face of difficulty and having to dilute their expectations and dreams in order to deal with the practical reality of life. Men often seem to have their heads in the clouds.

[Sister Rachel]

Since I became less closeted (and worried) about my CDing/ gender identity issues, I've certainly become more sharply aware of the gulf which exists between masculine and feminine social norms, because I have been observing women as "people rather like me", rather than a separate section of humanity ( huwomanity?).
It's recently become clear to me that women have the harder task in life, fortunately they also have the inner strength to cope with it ( I am, of course, dealing in huge generalizations here).

On a lighter note, I am now amazed by the nimbleness and dexterity of the female hand .. I find coping with "hooks and eyes", the clips on suspender belts, the small and strangely positioned zips in skirts and dresses a real challenge,and I'm not a clumsy "banana-fingered" bloke/ blokess, I'm a guitarist!

There's no "specific experience" here, just developing awareness, I think.

I don't know what a "cismale" is? .. :( .. I think I see women differently to the way most of the men I work with do .. I don't join in with sexist "banter" and try to stand up for girls who are subjected to it, but then most seem to know how to fight their own battles!

Do I consider myself a feminist? .. um .. well .. I was brought up in the 60s and 70s by a stepmother who might have (or at least then would have been) described as a militant fundamentalist feminist, and for a teenaged boy ( albeit one worried that "he" was really a "she") it wasn't a good experience! .. but, yeah, all power to the gentler sex, if that makes sense?

[whowhatwhen]

Cismale is just short for cisgendered male, and cisgender basically means your birth sex matches your gender identity.

[kellycan27]

Next best thing to looking and interacting with them... Is being one!

[Rebecca Star]

The "us and them" debate starts again. Seriously, both sexes in this day and age experience discrimination. None of this will change until the world (errr...people), place and accept both sexes on an equal footing.


hugs

x

Rebecca Star

PS where does "Mast*****e"come into this? Always like these threads, they always go somewhere you'd never think possible.

[whowhatwhen]

Unfortunately if you're bio male you get really gross things happening if you don't m/b at least once in a while so unless you're getting tonnes of sex you'll run into problems.

[Brooklyn]

I know what feels feminine to me, but still have lots to learn about what being a woman is like. CDing got me interested in hair and makeup, and now I’m surrounded by women all day! I hear frank conversations about sex, birth control, jerk boyfriends and husbands, child care, aging parents, and everyday realities women deal with. I admire how well women form relationships and how resilient many can be.

I’ve also experienced being hit on by creeps, grabbed, assaulted, as well as some of the more pleasant aspects of presenting as female.
I’m probably more fond of women and more deferential to them than typical cismales. ‘Would gladly get paid $0.80 on the dollar if I could magically transform into a GG, even though I’d seriously have to curb my makeup addiction.

[NathalieX66]

What Ashley said.

I do enjoy getting pedicures in my favorite color, I always feel like I'm on the exclusive Team F instead of Team M.

Women rock!.....sometimes I want to be one. I don't know why, I just do.

[whowhatwhen]

PS where does "Mast*****e"come into this? Always like these threads, they always go somewhere you'd never think possible.

No idea but it was from an earlier post about not wanting a partner to engage in it.

[ErinSassyPants]

I'm really enjoying many of these posts, thank you all for sharing.

[Amanda M]

I find that dressing produces in me a mental state in which I seem to have a heightened awarenes of things feminine, including social attitudes. Experience has taught me that this also means being less combative, more open to discussion and slows me down to the speed of life. That being the case, I think dressing does influence my view of women in general.

Broad generalizations are misleading, but here goes. I seem to view women - and have done for years - as more emotionally mature than most men. I notice too, that they seem to have á much greater level of empathy with others, and ability to compromise, and a surprising resilience and staying power. All of these qualities are admirable as far as I am concerned.

Am I a feminist? I do not know. Suffice it to say that any discrimination of ANY grounds makes me uneasy, and the abuse of power in any form does get be angry.

Such a good thread to follow, this one! Very illuminating.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Erin, I've been dressing for 66yrs. I've always loved the women dressed .

[Zylia]

Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?
I've learned not to touch questions about feminism on the internet with a ten foot pole, mostly because of all the 'civil unrest' on the internet about this subject. A lot of it comes from twelve-year-olds (figuratively speaking) of the white straight male category, thinking that just because they don't see the problem it isn't there. Anyway, sometimes, the amounts of ignorance and idiocy are just too big to even bother doing something about it.

In one sentence, I believe that all human beings deserve equal rights and opportunities. Nature made us what we are and there's no denying that there are differences between man and woman biologically/physically, which may also have an effect on how we behave. Still, probably needless to say on this forum, our biological makeup or our physical form does not define who we are, what we may become or what we can do. Humans have surpassed that stage a long time ago, probably around the time we learned to make fire and use tools if you catch my gist..

As for the more 'political aspect' of feminism, I would love to support their cause as a man, but that seems contradictory. I can try to hold the door open to them like a true gentleman, but what I probably should do is get out of the way and let women open the door for themselves.

[MysticLady]

As for the more 'political aspect' of feminism, I would love to support their cause as a man, but that seems contradictory. I can try to hold the door open to them like a true gentleman, but what I probably should do is get out of the way and let women open the door for themselves.

Speaking from experiences w/ the wife. They want equality but "also" want the old school on how too be treated. Want the cake and eat it too, comes too mind. A woman that wants equal rights will go out there and mingle w/ men in a manner that "she's equal and not subservient" but wants to be cuddled, caressed, admired, and "treated like a Lady". If you want too be treated like a Lady, then act like one.:straightface:

[mariehart]

I find the whole 'holding the door open' controversy puzzling. I hold the door open for everyone, male, young or old and same is done for me. It's politeness not a political or cultural statement. It's not just door holding it's a general attitude of civility and politeness to everyone we encounter. It's what we all should seek for the society we live in. It's not a male female thing. The actions and attitude of extremists whether they be misogynists or over zealous feminists should not be considered normal.

[Zylia]

It's not only about actually opening doors for women, it's a metaphor for a host of things society as a whole can do to help women (specifically) advance in their lives. You can open a door for a lady and probably no-one gets hurt in the process, but it's a great example of a symptom of this 'patriarchal' society we (used to) live in, in which women need to be caressed and taken care of by men. I can't really speak for any woman, but it all seems rather paradoxical, probably something I would struggle with if I were in their shoes (metaphorical speaking again of course). That's why I feel kind of helpless when it comes to feminism. For men, it's a complete catch-22 situation.

And yes, I open the door for anyone too.

[MysticLady]

You can open a door for a lady and probably no-one gets hurt in the process, but it's a great example of a symptom of this 'patriarchal' society we (used to) live in, in which women need to be caressed and taken care of by men.

Hi Zylia

Then why, do I, keep reading posts and threads about women freaking out over guys wearing dresses, nail polish, don't embarrass me or the kids, we're a partnership but, I still want my man to be a man, yaddi, yaddi, yaddi.

[Zylia]

Don't ask me, ask them :D

At gunpoint I probably would have said that western civilization as a whole isn't nearly as far with this whole 'equality' thing as we all think. It's not just that there are too few women in boards of directors, inequality is ingrained in our culture and that's probably why everyone is OK with the more harmless examples of inherent unequal behavior. But that's my two cents as a genetic guy with nothing but my own meandering experience.

You know what really scares me? In a dystopian future where everyone is equal, there's no more crossdressing because every kind of attire is acceptable for everyone :eek:

[Marleena]

I've always though of women as equals. You treat each other with respect. The caveman days of dragging them into your man cave is over.:heehee:

[Allison Quinn]

I find myself wondering what effect dressing like, presenting as or feeling inside yourself to be a woman has on your feelings about and views of women.

So my questions are

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)?

Can you think of a specific experience that changed your views on women or what their lives may be like?

How do you think you see women differently than cismales?

Is there something you admire more about women because of your experiences?

Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?

1. The same really. Growing up I grew up with my mom and numerous sisters so I really always had a female's view on everything :P My parents were divorced and I did not really think there was much of a difference between genders and wahaha I was wrong there. When I started to get a bit closer to my dad I noticed differences between myself and him and really noticed the differences between my brother and I.

2. Not really, i've not had too many experiences yet. The ones i've had though include feeling like i'm being judged by people for what I wear which my girlfriend said is sort of what she feels like xD Like people stare at her for wearing shorts when it's hot outside which is annoying. and the way that guys treat girls is quite annoying o.e I play MMO's online and I can say guys treat me as a second hand individual even though they think I'm a genetic girl u.u and I am hit on all the time even though they all know i'm only interested in girls which is quite annoying. I've even been told the only reason I like girls is because i've not been blessed enough to be with a guy. I've been hit on a lot over omegle too which is less than nice :/ But I guess that means I sort of pass sometimes

3. I notice that I appreciate what girls do with beauty a lot more. The amount of effort that girls put into their appearance is astronomical, and it's rather fun.

4. admire? Hm their extra X chromosome

5. Yes, and I don't know :o I grew up with all girls and that has to of highly influenced my ideas, being transgendered probably influences it a lot too.
But yes I consider myself a feminist :P I'd advocate for the equal rights of all women, cis, trans, and of all sexual orientations alike.

[whowhatwhen]

One thing I've noticed about the relationship between CDs and women here is the feeling that all women need to be protected.
Protected from what? You ask.

Lots here at one point at least were really upset that TG people had sex at all, the general attitude was that it should be kept private and off the Internet.
You know, a SO could get the wrong idea you see...

It always bugged me how people were so ready to toss an entire group of people under the bus because their SO "may" find TG porn while searching for CD information.
Sure, their SO may get upset but he/she is a grown person and doesn't need to be protected from the realities of life and the Internet.

Things may have changed but I remember a few posts saying how bad it was to "pervert" being TG by being anything but asexual, or more likely anything but straight.

[ErinSassyPants]

Speaking from experiences w/ the wife. They want equality but "also" want the old school on how too be treated. Want the cake and eat it too, comes too mind. A woman that wants equal rights will go out there and mingle w/ men in a manner that "she's equal and not subservient" but wants to be cuddled, caressed, admired, and "treated like a Lady". If you want too be treated like a Lady, then act like one.:straightface:

I am extremely offended by this. You chose a woman who was willing to enter into a conservative tradtional religious based marriage. That's totally fine. But don't take what you percieve your wife to want/need or do to be an indication of what "women" want, need, think or do. It just does not apply. Just as I should not assume that what I want, need, think or do is what all women want.

Victoria you chose someone for exactly the qualities that you are talking about, it seems disingenuous to disdain her for them now.



It always bugged me how people were so ready to toss an entire group of people under the bus because their SO "may" find TG porn while searching for CD information.
Sure, their SO may get upset but he/she is a grown person and doesn't need to be protected from the realities of life and the Internet.

Things may have changed but I remember a few posts saying how bad it was to "pervert" being TG by being anything but asexual, or more likely anything but straight.

REALLY?!? Is that why this forum is soooooo bizarrely asexual even while talking about sexuality and sexual activity? I'm finding many wonderful people and discussions here but that strange disconnect between everything here and anything sexual makes me feel like I'm in the twilight zone. I'm used to forums where adults have normal discussions, here it feels like there are holes where the natural references to sex would be.

[whowhatwhen]

There is a fine line because a lot of times people would join and talk descriptively all of their sexploits so the mods keep the TMI level down.
Not that that's a bad thing, but for some the existence of sexually active (especially gay sex) is enough to get upset at.

ie.
I had sex with a guy once and it was awesome. - Perfectly okay
And then I took his xxxx and put it in my xxxx until xxxx xxx xxxxx. - The forum isn't supposed to be that explicit.

I'm not railing against the forum in general but you will find a fairly heavy conservative air here.
Hell, I'm the friggin virgin here I should be the one spazzing out about sex.

:P

[Leona]

I am extremely offended by this. You chose a woman who was willing to enter into a conservative tradtional religious based marriage. That's totally fine. But don't take what you percieve your wife to want/need or do to be an indication of what "women" want, need, think or do. It just does not apply. Just as I should not assume that what I want, need, think or do is what all women want.

I have encountered many women that lean a bit to the right politically that want to "have their cake and eat it, too", as Victoria is suggesting. The basic premise is that they want equal voices in politics, equal pay, and still expect men to pay for dates. This is excluding specifically the far right, where women don't get rights per se, and there are many women who are on the far right.

Personally, if you're not willing to go back to back with me in a barroom brawl (not that I've been in any, mind you), then you're not my equal, period. You don't get excused by being a woman. Likewise, if you, as a woman, think you can slap me and not get any sort of physical response back, then you need to turn in your voter's registration card. I'm not a violent person, mind you, but I expect to have the right to self-defense regardless of what sex my opponent is. That's one of the things that equality means to me.


REALLY?!? Is that why this forum is soooooo bizarrely asexual even while talking about sexuality and sexual activity? I'm finding many wonderful people and discussions here but that strange disconnect between everything here and anything sexual makes me feel like I'm in the twilight zone. I'm used to forums where adults have normal discussions, here it feels like there are holes where the natural references to sex would be.
I find that odd, too. I drop my references anyway and see which ones get moderated. :) I don't think I've had any moderated yet.

[flatlander_48]

If anything, crossdressing has made me a bit more sensitive to women's equality issues. I was before, but somewhat more so now. Underneath it all, how can I expect someone to be sensitive to my issues if I am not sensitive to theirs?

[kathtx]

Personally, if you're not willing to go back to back with me in a barroom brawl (not that I've been in any, mind you), then you're not my equal, period.

Well, most women I know wouldn't hesitate to go back-to-back with me in a brawl. Probably most of the women in your life would too. Do you think for a minute your mom or your elderly grandma wouldn't have your back in a tight spot? Even if they knew they'd go down fast, they'd go down swinging and kicking. If you *started* the brawl, your mom would then kick your butt for being stupid enough to start a bar fight.

But why is it that when we talk about equality, we always use examples like brawls that highlight males' physical strengths? Why not "if you can tread water for 24 hours" or "if you can run 40 miles to go for help", not to mention "if you can go through ten hours of labor"? There plenty of physical tasks at which women outperform men. I can outrun my wife easily for short distances and lift much more weight than she can, but she can run or swim distances that would send a typical guy to the emergency room.
Both quick bursts of strength and long-term endurance are mighty useful in real life (and in bar fights), especially when combined with determination and a protective instinct.

[Leona]

For me, I use physical conflict as a standard of equalization because the sexist notion that "boys don't hit girls" plays into it. I'm not a fan of anybody hitting anybody, mind you. I'm also well aware that your average woman has bone-breaking strength in her body, and is therefore reasonably equal in an average physical confrontation. Maybe the man has an advantage, but by highlitghting that, we ignore that the woman has capabilities as well.

To answer you other question, most, if not all, of the women in my life will have my back in a fight. The only one who gets a pass is the one who's fighting cancer and breaks ribs by sneezing. She'd get the pass even if she were a man, considering her condition.

[MysticLady]

Victoria you chose someone for exactly the qualities that you are talking about, it seems disingenuous to disdain her for them now.


She is very worthy and is not inferior too me, just her ideology is, and that's not part of her Faith, that is her choice. :p



Hell, I'm the friggin virgin here I should be the one spazzing out about sex.
:P

Ok Corrine, relax, take a chill pill. have some Chinese tea or something:heehee:


I have encountered many women that lean a bit to the right politically that want to "have their cake and eat it, too", as Victoria is suggesting. The basic premise is that they want equal voices in politics, equal pay, and still expect men to pay for dates. This is excluding specifically the far right, where women don't get rights per se, and there are many women who are on the far right.

Personally, if you're not willing to go back to back with me in a barroom brawl (not that I've been in any, mind you), then you're not my equal, period. You don't get excused by being a woman. Likewise, if you, as a woman, think you can slap me and not get any sort of physical response back, then you need to turn in your voter's registration card. I'm not a violent person, mind you, but I expect to have the right to self-defense regardless of what sex my opponent is. That's one of the things that equality means to me.


Very Nice Response.:)


Well, most women I know wouldn't hesitate to go back-to-back with me in a brawl. Probably most of the women in your life would too. Do you think for a minute your mom or your elderly grandma wouldn't have your back in a tight spot? Even if they knew they'd go down fast, they'd go down swinging and kicking.

I must agree. Mom and Grammy busted me up a few times growing up:spank::kickbutt::bitchslap::bigsmack:. Don't mess with them. They'll punch your lights out

x x
.
----

[Seana Summer]

This probably wont answer your question but my views on gender are, in a nut shell, like this - I think that everyone is an individual no matter what is, or is not, in their pants. Maybe that is because I crossdress, but maybe not.

You are what you are, enjoy and make the most of the hand you've been dealt. You are lucky if you were born female, you are lucky if you were born male. You are especially lucky if you can experience and express all the best of both! It is also my opinion that you have an obligation to not express the worst of GGs or GMs. I have had very abusive GGs in my life until a few years ago. No one should be abused physically, mentally or otherwise regardless if its a lump or a dip down your pants! (or in my case at the moment, up my skirt;))

[whowhatwhen]

Ok Corrine, relax, take a chill pill. have some Chinese tea or something:heehee:


I'll have a nice, hot bath before bed then.
:)

It just seems so odd that I would even have to post things along the lines of "it's okay to have same-sex sex" but it's happened.
Usually the bitter virgin is the one whose supposed to be doing the anti-sex bitching :P