An open letter to "A"...Thanks for outing me :(

[Sara Jessica]

There's been a thread (or two, or three, likely more) that talks about what to do when one encounters a member of our tribe in public. Well this evening I was "encountered" and here's my letter to "A".

Dear "A",

Thank you for outing me tonight. No, really. It meant a lot to me that while minding my own business and browsing in Victoria's Secret, you saw me for what I was...a tranny.

Sure, your introduction was kind of odd.

A - Hi, I'm "A", what's your name?

Sara - Ummmm, Sara.

A - Nice to meet you.

("A" walks away.)

(It'd have been kind of creepy if I didn't seen the innocence in a rather young-ish "A" showing through.)

Only to return less than a minute later.

A - You know, there's a transgender support group that meets at the LGBT center on Wednesdays.

Sara - Thanks but I'm not really into the support group thing.

A - Oh I see, you're self-supporting.

Sara - No, I've been at this for quite a long time, I'm not looking for a group, but thanks anyway.

It pretty much ended there.

So what did we learn from this little exchange?

1. It's rarely a good idea to approach the trans in when she's minding her own business.

2. When in doubt, see #1.

Seriously, this is the first time something like this has happened to me. Of course I've been read before and in fact, I expect this everywhere I go (makes life a lot easier). But really, I didn't need you to get in my face and say "you're a tranny and I can see it, and I bet everyone else can as well"). If I were having a bad day for whatever reason, or if my self-confidence was fragile in any way, such an exchange could have been really gotten me down. Instead, it rolled right off like water off of a duck's back but still, I thought it was important enough to share. What if it was a newbie that you encountered? It could have sent her back to the closet.

Me? I think I'll go out again tomorrow.

Sincerely,

Sara

[docrobbysherry]

Thank u, Sara. For answering the question a number of posters here have asked.

"What should they do upon seeing what they think is another trans when out?"

I like your answer. "Mind your own business!"

[ArleneRaquel]

"Mind your own business" is the perfect solution.

[ShannonIL]

I agree, and have always practiced the "mind your own business approach".. Having said that, I don't necessarily pick up any ill intention in what was said. Was it inappropriate? Sure. But it's quite possible that "A" was just trying to help. For as many folks out there like yourself that know where they are and what's going on, there's just as many who are lost and don't know what to make of their situation. That same advice that offended you could have been extremely useful to someone in the latter situation.

Still, totally get where you're coming from. I would have just minded my own business

[Sara Jessica]

Don't get me wrong, this was a totally harmless inquiry.

And I wasn't nearly as offended as I made this out to be. I was more tripped out than anything else. I've exaggerated my reaction a bit in making a point to answer one of those questions that keeps coming up.

For everyone who would welcome such interaction for whatever reason, there's probably 10 others who would not.

What if I were a year into transition, trying to live my life every day with the fewest possible amount of reminders that I'm anything but a woman?

[ronny0]

This reminds me of the Seinfeld (or Friends) episode where he walks up to a plump woman and asks when she is due to deliver.
Only to find out she is not pregnant, only plump.......
Lots of people can't keep their feet out of their mouths, and lots of good intentions go bad.
If in doubt, don't do it!

[jenni_xx]

I do go shopping quite a lot in drab, I'm confident enough that walking into a shop doesn't phase me. Confident enough to walk up to a mirror and hold up clothing against my body to see how it looks. Confident enough to try on shoes, etc etc. And I've never encountered any problems. I've often been approached by sales staff asking if I need any help, or if I would like to try anything on. I do believe that because I am confident, then other people can see/sense this, and because I act as though it's the most normal thing in the world, they tend to react accordingly. That it's simply not a big deal. I believe that being confident, acting naturally, makes me more approachable to sales staff/shop owners. And maybe this is the reason why "A" felt comfortable enough to approach you, because you gave off a vibe of someone who was confident - you give off a vibe of someone who was APPROACHABLE. And that is a good thing. No, that is a great thing. In my opinion.

Which means that if we can give off positive vibes, have an air of confidence and belonging, and other people can pick up on this, then wouldn't it be also true that we give off bad vibes. If you were in a bad mood for example, then others may pick up on such a vibe and thus not regard you as being approachable, and as a result, not approach you. Or for example a newbie who felt incredibly self-conscious/nervous, others may pick up on this and leave such a person alone. Which brings me to my point - re your comment "it's rarely a good idea to approach a trans when she's minding her own business". That could be said of anyone. And most of the time people do "mind their own business" and not approach others. But my own opinion, as a trans person, I do not mind at all any person, be it a stranger, a shop assistant, whoever, approaching me. Whether I'm in drab or not. As long as their intentions are good, then, well, their intentions are good and that's a good thing. I welcome that personally. Unless I'm in a bad mood of course!!! But then they're not as likely to approach... ah, you get the idea :))))

[Beverley Sims]

It appears A was totally tactless.
It is an unfortunate set of circumstances.

[xd-tigger]

I totally agree with ShannonIL, She should have minded her own business, but at least she didn't just stand there and stare at you, or whisper to someone else and make fun. Maybe she just thought that she was being helpful :)

[Kate Simmons]

Kind of like the helper at a drug store when you are picking up meds if they yell out what you are getting for others to hear--Tactless!:)

[suzy1]

“A” meant well. “A” was just a bit stupid like most of us at sometime in our lives.

[Jana]

Just curious, what was "A" presenting as at the time of the encounter?

[Stevie]

Sara A was completely rude . Saying hello is one thing but talking about support groups and other private things to strangers is a no no.

[deebra]

I with Jenni on this, the way Sara was approached was not rude, hateful or ment to make fun or embarass. I see it as A could pickup on a CD where most may not, his suggestions for a support group were positive and ment to be helpful. Hasn't it occured to our members that if he knew so much about the support group for CDs and he was shopping in Victoria Secret then he or someone in his life is a CD. I would have welcomed the encounter, glad he came over and tried to continue the dialog at the right time and possibily turn it into a friendship. Don't we hear a lot on here about never meeting another CD. I also would have asked him if he had found anything in the store he liked, his answer could possibily reveal a lot about his self.

[VAWyman]

I believe she thought she was helping, but she was rather rude. Sorry that you were read like that.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Sara, A couple times I have seen what I'm sure was a Crossdresser but I know how I would feel and left them alone.

[Cristy2]

Sounds like a newbie. Kind of like some religious people who just got "saved" and super excited and end up going overboard for a few months.

[Krististeph]

i've seen some us shopping en femme (i'm almost always en drab), and want to say hello, but don't want to draw any undue attention to either of us, if eye contact is made, a simple smile and nod will do, otherwise, just let it go like one would any other shopper.

It's hard to understand, and the first time you meet someone you feel you have some connection with regarding gender assimilation, you want to acknowledge it somehow. Unfortunately, in the store, it's probably not the place to do it. Remember- you are always an ambassador, much as i don't particularly like the term...

Kristi (in the tommy hilfiger section at macy's, last time I saw someone else shopping)

[Jenny CD]

You know, as much as I've been out (which is several times a week) I've never encountered "one of the tribe" or "flock" or "pack" or "herd". Well, except at gay-bars where they are usually very flamboyant. I would like to think that I wouldn't approach a CD minding her own business. But, at the same time we are all curious and want to communicate with each other. I mean, that's why we're on this site everyday.

[Princess Grandpa]

Shortly after coming to this site I posted one of those threads. The first response I got was quite insulting. Only an ignorant redneck would think this is ok or some such noise bathe rest of the replays were much kinder but all pointed out their reasons for not wanting to be approached.

The more I learn about myself and you ladies the more I understand. Obviously A didn't mean harm. I suspect she was operating from a desire to help as well as the desire for social interaction. The story implies, to me at least, she was uncomfortable and had to work up her courage to come talk with you. I'm glad her faux pas didn't cause you great discomfort. I'm also glad you were able to remain civil with her.

In my entire life I have only noticed maybe half a dozen people put in public. I know I never did malicious harm, I sure hope I never caused unintentional harm or made anybody uncomfortable. It's a shame the world is as it is.

Hug
Rita

[Tina B.]

Sara, well handled, and well told! Sara said "A" was young, my guess is she had recently found that support group, and was trying to spread the word that there was a place for people like us, Later she will learn, just because it looks like a man in a dress, that doesn't make us all out here looking for the same thing.
It sounds like the enthusiasm Of a new convert, now if those support groups would just start telling them outside the door, it should be just like AA, totally anonymous
and don't assault people on the street and in the shops.

[Sara Jessica]

Nice to wake up to so many constructive comments...


Just curious, what was "A" presenting as at the time of the encounter?

He was presenting as a guy. And there was no self-disclosure on his part so I couldn't say whether he is "T" or not.


I do go shopping quite a lot in drab, I'm confident enough that walking into a shop doesn't phase me. Confident enough to walk up to a mirror and hold up clothing against my body to see how it looks. Confident enough to try on shoes, etc etc. And I've never encountered any problems. I've often been approached by sales staff asking if I need any help, or if I would like to try anything on. I do believe that because I am confident, then other people can see/sense this, and because I act as though it's the most normal thing in the world, they tend to react accordingly. That it's simply not a big deal. I believe that being confident, acting naturally, makes me more approachable to sales staff/shop owners. And maybe this is the reason why "A" felt comfortable enough to approach you, because you gave off a vibe of someone who was confident - you give off a vibe of someone who was APPROACHABLE. And that is a good thing. No, that is a great thing. In my opinion.

I think you're on to something and in all fairness, maybe I'm being a bit harsh to "A". It's almost as if my confidence invited such interaction. Does that make it right? Not really. But I can empathize where "A" was likely coming from.


Which means that if we can give off positive vibes, have an air of confidence and belonging, and other people can pick up on this, then wouldn't it be also true that we give off bad vibes. If you were in a bad mood for example, then others may pick up on such a vibe and thus not regard you as being approachable, and as a result, not approach you. Or for example a newbie who felt incredibly self-conscious/nervous, others may pick up on this and leave such a person alone. Which brings me to my point - re your comment "it's rarely a good idea to approach a trans when she's minding her own business". That could be said of anyone. And most of the time people do "mind their own business" and not approach others. But my own opinion, as a trans person, I do not mind at all any person, be it a stranger, a shop assistant, whoever, approaching me. Whether I'm in drab or not. As long as their intentions are good, then, well, their intentions are good and that's a good thing. I welcome that personally. Unless I'm in a bad mood of course!!! But then they're not as likely to approach... ah, you get the idea :))))

It's kind of a double standard. I'm put off by the "T" interacting with me but if a natal female comes up to me and starts to make small talk while I'm shopping, I feel totally different. Like I'm accepted in her tribe regardless if she sees me as "T" or not ("or not" being highly unlikely).


“A” meant well. “A” was just a bit stupid like most of us at sometime in our lives.

I agree Suzy, no question "A" meant well. Stupid though might be a bit harsh. Uneducated on the niceties of tripping over us in public might be better. ;)


I with Jenni on this, the way Sara was approached was not rude, hateful or ment to make fun or embarass. I see it as A could pickup on a CD where most may not, his suggestions for a support group were positive and ment to be helpful. Hasn't it occured to our members that if he knew so much about the support group for CDs and he was shopping in Victoria Secret then he or someone in his life is a CD. I would have welcomed the encounter, glad he came over and tried to continue the dialog at the right time and possibily turn it into a friendship. Don't we hear a lot on here about never meeting another CD. I also would have asked him if he had found anything in the store he liked, his answer could possibily reveal a lot about his self.

If "A" is trans, or perhaps is just a fan (who knows?), he likely would read us more readily than your average Muggle by way of his own experience.

As far as turning the interaction into more of a conversation, there are a couple reasons why this didn't figure into the situation...


The first time "A" approached me I thought to myself "OK, this is a first, being hit on at VS".
After the second interaction, he split so fast that I couldn't have got a word in edgewise even if I wanted to. I truly think he was embarrassed.



Shortly after coming to this site I posted one of those threads. The first response I got was quite insulting. Only an ignorant redneck would think this is ok or some such noise bathe rest of the replays were much kinder but all pointed out their reasons for not wanting to be approached.

The more I learn about myself and you ladies the more I understand. Obviously A didn't mean harm. I suspect she was operating from a desire to help as well as the desire for social interaction. The story implies, to me at least, she was uncomfortable and had to work up her courage to come talk with you. I'm glad her faux pas didn't cause you great discomfort. I'm also glad you were able to remain civil with her.

In my entire life I have only noticed maybe half a dozen people put in public. I know I never did malicious harm, I sure hope I never caused unintentional harm or made anybody uncomfortable. It's a shame the world is as it is.

Hug
Rita

There's no rulebook with this whole thing Rita, only what we can share based on our own personal experiences and preferences.

----------------------------

Like I mentioned above, sleeping on it has led me to lighten up a bit more over the whole thing. Still, it was one of those real-world examples that I'm glad to have been able to share.

"A", if in the odd chance you are reading this, please feel free to send me a PM. If I came across as dismissive, I apologize (but you really didn't give me a chance to say "anything but the facts, ma'am").

[linda allen]

First of all, I've only once in my life seen what I was pretty certain was a crossdresser or transexual out in public. I got a quick look at a possible crossdresser in a shop once but didn't get a clear view and wasn't about to follow her around to be certain.

That said, I would never walk up to someone and ask (or assume) that she was a crossdresser and I would be pretty upset and flustered if someone did that to me.

If you're not in the habit of walking up to strange women and starting a conversation, why would you do that to a suspected crossdresser? And what if she's not a crossdresser, just a natural female who may have some less than feminine characteristics. Wouldn't that be pretty embarassing?

[Princess Grandpa]

For what it's worth, I don't see that you have been so hard on A.

Hug
Rita


And what if she's not a crossdresser, just a natural female who may have some less than feminine characteristics. Wouldn't that be pretty embarassing?

There are a lot of women who's features may look more masculine than feminine.

Hug
Rita

[michelleddg]

This always seems to be a tough call. From the information presented it seems clear that A was acting in good faith. Sure, it's easy to just walk away from an opportunity, but he saw the upside as seeing a TG isolated from the TG world whom he could easily offer a life-altering piece of information. Don't forget, this would be nearly all of us just a few short years ago before the internet took off. The flip side is a confidence-shattering clocking or (and this has to be way odds-against) trying to offer information to somebody who is completely and utterly assimilated.

Not sure how I'd react on either side of the fence, never really been put to the test. Closest would be half way through a makeover at a MAC counter, so still readily readable. A pleasant young man walked up and said "Hi, I'm Tina, you're going to look great!" I admit, I was tickled...Hugs, Michelle

[Stephanie47]

Tough call as to whether he should have approached you. If you were read by him, he may have just been trying to provide information. I would suspect he was also a cross dresser, and, knew how difficult it was to find a man of a similar mind set. I think the perception of him being rude is not justified. It seems since there is always some self doubt in the vast majority of cross dressers, the vast majority may not want to be approached. Years ago (no decades ago) my wife told me it was OK for me to seek out and attend a support group. I called the telephone "hot line" of a group in Seattle. I was treated so rude and disrespectful that the only thing I could think of was these people better never volunteer for a suicide hot line.

Would I approach another cross dresser? I don't go out en femme because I'm zero percent passable. Should I go up to a tastefully attired and very presentable and passable cross dresser and ask if s/he knows of a support group? Nope, too much baggage in most of us.

When I am wearing a baseball cap with my military unit patch on it, you bet I approach them and strike up a conversation. I view that military patch as an advertisement to stop and talk" what unit, when served, welcome home, etc. Should I run up and ask a woman where she bought her pretty dress because I would want one for myself?

Frankly, we are never able to ascertain a person's zone of personal space. It's tough to make a judgement.

Hey, if my lovely wife did not take the initiative and swim up to me in a public pool forty plus years ago, I would never had married her shortly thereafter.

[Lorileah]

what she lacked in tact she made up in exuberance. You would not walk up to someone you don't know and say "hey we have a group meeting for people 5'7" high with blonde hair...come on down" reminds of the people who knock on my door and try and convert me from pagan....

[aprilgirl]

It is refreshing to get a different perspective from one of the "I saw a sister out in public threads" that have been quite prevalent here. The original poster seemed poised and in her element while she was going about her day. Call me cynical, but I can't help but feel that anyone who approaches someone, who is minding their own business, to point out the fact that they "know" as nothing more than self serving.

Sure, intentions may have been good, as others here have already mentioned. Yet, that doesn't take away from the fact that a virtual stranger in male mode is trying to make a connection to a "like minded" individual, who is a stranger herself. There are plenty of support groups out there for those who feel the need to introduce themselves.

Phrased differently, I'm open to a thread of this nature where one of these chance encounters turned positive.

[Jana]

Thanks for replying, Sara. I agree with your original post. I wouldn't like to be contacted, and certainly wouldn't contact anyone, even if the encounter happened whilst both were en femme. Guess some people have the need to "reach out".

[Dawn cd]

Her approach was clumsy, but IMO what she was really saying was, "you look nice and I'd like to know you better. Maybe we could do it at the LGBT meeting."

[Stevie]

Saying hello is not rude, but I think what she is saying that it took a lot to get to the point to go out dressed. Unless I was ready to interact I would be uncomfortable with it. Perhaps if she talked about other things the interaction could of went better. Some people's level of their acceptance is not the same as others. Also if you are going out a woman you have to be prepare to interact too. I still find how Sara describe the interaction as being rude, but she should expect to interact with people when you go out in public.

[arbon]

What if I were a year into transition, trying to live my life every day with the fewest possible amount of reminders that I'm anything but a woman?

When I was a year into my transition an encounter like that would have been the least of my worries. I had much bigger issues then get upset at someone trying to be friendly and helpful.

[jenni_xx]

In all honesty, it saddens me that quite a few people here view the actions of "A" so negatively. In this particular occurrence (as described by Sara), no harm was done, good will was intended, and the actions of "A" were dealt with by Sara appropriately and politely, and no offence was caused. Any possible negativity that could have happened falls into the category of "what if" as opposed to the category of "what actually happened".

My opinion, and this may sound somewhat harsh, even insensitive, is that the reality is that the vast majority of us, when out "presenting ourselves as female" will be read. We WILL be identified, whether we like it or not. The vast majority of us will look, to others, as a man in women's clothing. And this raises a very important question in my opinion. That is, what is it that we, as trans people want? Do we want to be regarded as women, that is, not be read? Or do we want to be respected and accepted as trans people? If the former, then the sad reality is that that "want" will never be attainable for many of us. If the latter, then the optimistic reality is that it is possible for that "want" to be achievable for us all.

So say your out and about, and a person, be it male, female, of even trans themselves, approaches you with the best of intent in order to strike up a conversation, or to be positive in what they say, then I personally do not see what the problem is. But clearly others (as quite a few replies in this thread testify), do have a problem with such a scenario occurring. Yes, of course we all want to go about our business and not feel threatened, hassled, or maybe just singled out, but the sad reality is that not being singled out (at least) is highly unlikely. The "sad" reality is that most of us will be identified as a "man in dress", whether we like it or not, and whether it's said to our face or behind our back, it will be the case. Which leaves us with the other possibility - that of us being accepted AS a trans person, and not being negatively judged BECAUSE we are a trans person. And for that to happen, it will take many of us, to go out, to be seen in public, to be recognised in public, for what we actually are, to the extent that our "place" within society is no longer regarded as falling "outside" of the norm.

Am I safe in assuming that the one thing all of us want is to be accepted within society. To feel as though we can be ourselves without being judged negatively, or even better, without fear of prejudice? That we can live our lives without fear of any kind. That we can be accepted and respected for who we are? Isn't that the ideal here? Or have I got that wrong? It seems to me, based on a few replies to this thread, that some of us are losing sight of that. And the ironic thing is, quite a few here are themselves judging a person ("A") in a negative light just because they had the gall, or confidence, to go up to another person with the intent to strike up a conversation that, based on what Sara herself said, wasn't at all offensive, but certainly could be viewed as supportive and accepting and above all else, non-judgemental. Or to put this another way, it is US HERE in our little BUBBLE who are being judgemental of others. And that is simply never a good thing, especially so when we don't want others to be judgemental towards ourselves.

So "A" went up to Sara, while Sara was in a public place. Thus meaning that Sara was "read". Sara herself says that when she is out in public, she expects to be read, and expecting this makes her life, in her words, easier. Sara's objection therefore, which she makes quite clear, does not relate to herself and her own reaction to this particular experience, but how she herself perceives others may react should it happen to them. And that is, it seems, what quite a few posters here have picked up on. Resulting in them being negative towards "A". Again, this saddens me. And it saddens me most of all in the sense that a mountain is being made out of a mole-hill. "A" never said anything negative. On the contrary, "A" was supportive, and "A" was honest, and "A" was accepting. Yet "A" is being slated for that. "A" is being judged negatively. Well I'm sorry to say, but when we view people such as "A" in such a way, then WE will never be accepted, and all we'll achieve is to push people away from us. And that is the last thing we need to do.

[Bea A]

What about something as simple as "Hello" and letting the other person engage as much as they choose. Just my 2 cents. But then again I talk to anyone (although I do not venture out en femme)

[AllieSF]

Very well stated Jenni. I totally agree with you. We look for acceptance, then receive acceptance, and then complain about it. As much as Sara has been out and as far along as she is in accepting and learning to live with her personal situation internally and with her family and the rest of the world, I would not ever have expected to read this thread to start with. Now, if that person was a stalker, or literally out one of us while in male mode to others, that is a totally different situation. If someone sees me while out dressed, please come over and introduce yourself. I intrude on so many other people's lives with such great results for both them and me, I would welcome the intrusion and subsequent conversation.

[kimdl93]

It's true. A simple smile or casual hello would have been more than sufficient.

[docrobbysherry]

Trying to 2nd guess what was in A's mind is silly and pointless!

There was only one way to find out. Sara needed to ask what A was thinking in approaching her! I certainly wouldn't have been composed enuff to do that!

[Eryn]

People will always have different views about how to approach a TG person. We're the most secret society in existence!

Of course, the safest route is to avoid mentioning it at all and that is what I do.

I wonder what "A" would have said if you had responded "Why would I care about a transgender support group?"

[Sometimes Steffi]

I disagree with the majority here, and the OP.

I don’t think you were outed. He didn’t yell out, “There’s a tranny in VS.”

You were made, or clocked or whatever word you want to use. The only difference is that the person that made you didn’t snicker, didn’t elbow his friends, or anything like that. He basically said hello. Now, maybe he could have been more tactful about it, but I don’t see that any harm was intended.

Think about this scenario.

I walk into my favorite local restaurant, which is very busy tonight. There are a lot of people waiting to get tables. I see a guy wearing a Boston Red Sox baseball cap. I walk up to him and say, “It looks like you’re a Red Sox fan. How about those Red Sox this year. I never thought they’d be doing so well with a bunch of no-name players, especially after the season they had last year. You know, there’s a Meetup group that meets at Glory Days every couple of weeks to watch the game together. And sometimes we get a bunch of people to go up to Camden Yards when the Red Sox are in town. I can provide you the web site if you're interested."

Are you offended because I came up to you while you are minding your own business? Should you be?

I think not. Why can’t we all work to de-stigmatize crossdressing

[rocketscientist]

I'm not sure I could state it any better than Jenni_xx or AllieSF. When I go out I try to be as real as I can be, but I know that most of the time I won't pass 100%,especially face to face. I don't let it bother me any tho. After all, I am in public. When you go out your door into the world you have to be prepared for any situation that might arise. You never know what will happen. In some ways I like to be read. I'm not trying to "fool" anyone. I have the mindset that everyone knows exactly what I am and I want them to be appreciative of my efforts and not seem as if I'm trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Anyway...... when I am in public I welcome interaction with others. I want to make them feel comfortable. I want to give them a positive view of our community and hopefully dispel any negative opinions they might have, one Muggle at a time. If you see ME out, feel free to say hello! I won't bite. If I see another gurl out somewhere tho, I think I may open with a compliment and see what the reaction is. If she's comfortable I may go from there. If not and she seems nervous or unsure of herself, I will politely excuse myself. I realize that everyone has different comfort levels, but as a whole we need to be more open. GET OUT THERE AND SHOW THE WORLD WE BELONG!

[lingerieLiz]

The only time I've even said anything to a sister was when a young, high school age, kid ran head on into me in a mall. He looked like a deer in headlights. I just said relax your fine and went on.

[Gillian Gigs]

My mother used to use this expression, "birds of a feather, flock together". Birds have no problem telling there kind from the other birds. I think that we can see the "tells" of our "tribe" by our own experiences. I have seen others dressed up in public, but I would never disrupt that persons time by being rude. All I have ever done is smile and keep walking.

[Jacqueline Winona]

I don't see any harm intended by A, but I get your point, you were trying to blend in, enjoy a private moment, and just be left alone. It really was a breach of etiquette, but maybe A didn't know the rulesSometimes you have to se the good intentions, as hard as it is.

[TeresaCD]

Wow, that's different.
I'm glad you were polite - not sure I would have been..

[DebbieL]

I recently had a similar experience. In this case, I was the only person on the Hertz bus, and the driver had taken good care of me, and then asked if I hung out at "Sisters", which is some club in Chicago area. I didn't even know what he was talking about, and he told me it was a transgender club. So much for passing (I had been unnoticed, blending in well enough in DIA and Midway, as well as my hotel and restaurants without even being noticed. But then again, I'm trying to transition, so I've been getting a LOT of practice.

As I walked away, I thought "Well, so much for passing". I know that my ID, Credit Card, and driver's license blow my cover, but the service personnel are always good about using the feminine pronoun to address me. I'm always pleased when the TSA security does the rubber-neck when he realizes that the male ID and the female he think he is looking at - are the same person. Fortunately, I have a new license and they match the picture quickly, but are startled at the name and male designation.

Once I start working as Debbie, I'll have to change my name legally, and thanks to new federal policies, could change my gender marker as well.

I realized that the bus driver was trying to be helpful, and since he was used to seeing transgenders and drag queens, he knew what to look for in terms of gestures and mannerisms that others might not have picked up.


Enjoying the journey.

[CarmenSkye]

Question. While I do see how "A" is actually doing harm, what if the she was seeking advice? I've been in "A's" situation before. While I was in drab while shopping for Carmen, I noticed the sales person at the department store was like me. I needed/wanted (and still do) help and advice. I approached her just like "A" did and told her I was like her. She then proceeded to help me out! She took me into the back (away from the public) and helped me find my women's shoe size! She gave me great advice and I owe her a lot!

Now I understand "A" was trying to be "helpful" but is it acceptable for someone like me (who is not 100% comfortable with themselves) to seek advice from someone who is much more experienced? Especially when it's hard as it is to meet people IRL who are just like yourself??

Sorry for the long post, it's something that I've always thought of.

[MysticLady]

He was presenting as a guy. And there was no self-disclosure on his part so I couldn't say whether he is "T" or not.


Yeah, this would be creepy in my book. If he was en femme, it would be a different feeling altogether.


For what it's worth, I don't see that you have been so hard on A.


Yes, Rita, I agree, if he's truly a CD. But, there's some freaky people out there, you know.:drooling:


reminds of the people who knock on my door and try and convert me from pagan....

We need too talk, join us in the Religious Forum:)


My mother used to use this expression, "birds of a feather, flock together".

Very true Gillian. I like that. We are sisters and we need to feel comfortable outside just we are here on the Forums.

[Princess Chantal]

Darn people and their engaged transradar systems, sure gives a blow to the detected person's passability ego.....

[AllieSF]

Question. While I do see how "A" is actually doing harm, what if the she was seeking advice? I've been in "A's" situation before. While I was in drab while shopping for Carmen, I noticed the sales person at the department store was like me. I needed/wanted (and still do) help and advice. I approached her just like "A" did and told her I was like her. She then proceeded to help me out! She took me into the back (away from the public) and helped me find my women's shoe size! She gave me great advice and I owe her a lot!

Now I understand "A" was trying to be "helpful" but is it acceptable for someone like me (who is not 100% comfortable with themselves) to seek advice from someone who is much more experienced? Especially when it's hard as it is to meet people IRL who are just like yourself??

Sorry for the long post, it's something that I've always thought of.

Carmen, in general it is more polite to let sleeping dogs lay as they are and not bother them. That being said, I see no reason if one has the opportunity to chat with someone, to make some innocent comment about the crowded store, lack of clothing choices in the clothing store or the over abundance of clothing that is making the decision process more difficult because of too many options. Whatever that would be respectful in a conversation and does not touch on anyone's "T" ness. I would not say that I am a sister nor comment on how well one passes or blends in. Talk to them just as if they were a casual woman shopper. If your or her "T" status comes up, let it be naturally as part of the total conversation and not like the prime reason you are talking with them. I also think that one needs to be quick on their feet so to speak so that they can easily diffuse and awkward situation if one arises.

My comments further above in this thread are based on the fact that most of us, and definitely including me, do not totally pass and we have too many male features to expect that we will pass. Therefore, if we go out enough, we should have thick enough skin and experience to let this type of situation easily pass with no offense taken when no offense was obviously meant by "A". Again, if someone is obnoxious or trying to negatively out us publicly, that totally changes the situation justifying other reactions.

[melissakozak]

Interesting thread...best to leave people alone and not mention 'support' groups, etc. People don't announce AA meeting times at bars, nor should they announce TG support meetings at VS...to someone he or she suspects might be trans.....;)

[Chickhe]

One Halloween I was out dancing with my wife and I we saw another person dressed up as a woman (actually he was not really presenting very well as a female)... this person came over and asked me, are you a guy?! ...I slowly answered, 'yes?....' and he said...'oh! You are just like me!'. I felt a little annoyed because I didn't feel 'just like him'. He didn't look feminine and yet he had trouble figuring out my gender...and I was with my wife, who was a little nervous about going out, so I was irritated that someone might disrupt the positive vibe I was maintaining so far.

No problem with interacting, but don't make assumptions!

[Maria 60]

I remember the first time I seen two sisters walking towards me in a high tourist area, and by the looks of the bags in there hands they did a lot of shopping. I remember the excitement the first thing I wanted to do was run up to them and say something, then I thought how strange that would be for both of us, so instead I tried not to stare but I did want to see what they were wearing.

[Jazzmine]

I think "A" handled the encounter in a naive way. If I saw another girl out shopping, that means I have read her and that can be disappointing for the recipient especially if you go up and acknowledge her directly or publicly, so you are best to leave her alone.
On the other hand, if your encounter is suddenly face to face, I expect a smile and some small talk could break the ice. You could share some thoughts on clothes then compliment her on how she looks. You would soon pick up if she felt uncomfortable and at that point you would move on.