Is it healthy to aspire to look like a super model?

[Aprilrain]

All my life I have dreamed about being a beautiful woman. Though I am very happy with the outcome of my transition, it is beyond any expectation or realistic hope I had when I started. Transition has forced me to accept the reality that being a mtf transsexual means I will always retain some masculine characteristics like my height and hip to waist ratio. My question is, how do we separate the dreams and fantasies of being 'that' stunning sexy beautiful girl and a realistic outcome being mtf? Especially in the early stages of transition it is so difficult to know your potential and realistic outcome from surgeries and hormones. I have posted a new avatar and profile picture to demonstrate the dreams I (and others) may have of being a beautiful woman.

[Rianna Humble]

I think that every woman has the right to dream about being the prettiest and most desirable person around, and many supermodels seem to embody that dream. Unfortunately, like most of the rest of the female population of this planet, very few of us will ever attain that goal.

However, I think that you are making a common mistake in thinking that beauty has anything to do with the way that you look. Beauty is what radiates out from a person's inner being and character so someone does not have to look like a supermodel to be recognised as being beautiful. Funnily enough, it was only a few years ago that I was helping someone whose face was scarred and who was traumatised by her looks, yet she was one of the most beautiful people I have ever met. She needed a little help to look past the surface and see her true beauty which was obvious to anyone who knew her.

[Michelle.M]

Rianna's totally right. One issue I see among trans women (OK, not all, but it happens often enough) is how the quest for beauty tends to derail us from what really matters.

Nothing wrong with wanting to improve one's appearance, per se, but more than most GGs we (as a group) seem to tend to link our value as women to how we look.

"If I could be prettier, I'd be more passable."

"If I were more passable, my transition would be more successful."

"If my transition were more successful, people would take me more seriously as a woman."

"If people took me more seriously as a woman and gendered me properly more often, then my true gender would be valid."

Kaitlyn Michele started a thread not too long ago that addressed this. It's worth a read.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?196020

[I Am Paula]

The aspiration to be a super model, or movie star, is a wonderful dream and goal. Starting at age 55, my more realistic goal is just to be comfortable in my own skin, and not scare the children, or horses. I've been presenting full time as a woman for a year and a half, and acceptance by my community has been far beyond my expectations. My whole town knows me as my female persona, and so far, I'm one of them, and that suits me fine. Do I want to appear prettier, and more female? Of course, but right now I'll settle for the best I can do, and hope the hormones add a bit along the way.

[Aprilrain]

Beauty is what radiates out from a person's inner being and character so someone does not have to look like a supermodel to be recognised as being beautiful.

Rianna, I absolutely agree with you on this statement. Inner being and character are so much more important than our external appearance. So why is it so important to some of us, and I myself am guilty of it as well, that we be seen as physically attractive? A few even take this need to extremes by posting photoshopped pictures and or photos of famous and beautiful women some even implying that these photos are actually our own pictures! It seems that inner beauty and character are not held in high regard in the face of external beauty?

[gonegirl]

"If I could be prettier, I'd be more passable."

"If I were more passable, my transition would be more successful."

"If my transition were more successful, people would take me more seriously as a woman."

"If people took me more seriously as a woman and gendered me properly more often, then my true gender would be valid."


I'm not disagreeing with Michelle, however, I would like think that most transsexual women who make it as far as transitioning are at least as concerned with people understanding that they are still "me" as they are with wanting to look attractive.

I'm only just beginning my transition and although I very much want to look good, I know it will only get me so far and won't change me being the person I've always been. I do think that it will help others accept me though, which is hugely important to me and I don't underestimate that helping me in my transition.

With regard to Michelle's list above, I believe that "If I could be prettier, I'd be more passable." is valid. But that's just me, and maybe I'm just being vain.

Simone.

[MatildaJ.]

my more realistic goal is just to be comfortable in my own skin, and not scare the children, or horses.

I'm a 44 year old GG, and that's my goal when leaving the house too!

I have a pet theory that our society presents beautiful young women as the most fully alive people -- so when the rest of us look at them, we're envious and willing to buy products to try to get close to that ideal. But it helps to keep in perspective that when you actually know beautiful young women, they have as many issues & problems as the rest of us.

[kimdl93]

Is it an aspiration or inspiration. Maybe for some. For others I would guess we set the sites at something more attainable.

[KellyJameson]

I think the possession of or pursuit of beauty is particularly dangerous for the transsexual.

Certainly anyone who has spent time in the transsexual community sees many of the same problems that plague those in the fashion industry or young teen population where they try to mold the body or face into impossible and unhealthy shapes.

I think this comes from confusing love with power so thinking that power "as beauty" is love.

The transsexual faces the double edged sword of needing female beauty to pass but also as the perfect representation of the female form as "gender representation" so without beauty the persons identity may be threatened.

This almost guarantees the return of gender dysphoria even after transitioning from the ravages of aging, condemning the transsexual to the impossible pursuit of beauty well past when it is possible.

The transsexual has a very powerful relationship to physical beauty and physical ugliness partially as a consequence of being prevented from living their actual gender which makes the experience of life "ugly" so beauty becomes necessary to sustain life and stave off depression.

In my own life I'm particularly critical of my face and live in fear of any imperfection because imperfection attacks my identity as a threat to what I may lose or not gain and this comes out of my childhood from not being my female identity.

I also have in the past used my outward appearance as an attention seeking need to empower and elevate me above others. This is not healthy and in my opinion will take you down the path into mental illness as "self importance and delusion" which you see often displayed by Hollywood types who are clearly disconnected from reality.

Physical beauty is a commodity much like money so it is something that can be used but how you use it will decide how you suffer.

If you use it to decide your worth as a human being or as the representation of your gender than when it is gone so is your gender or worth.

Just as we learn that gender and sexuality are separate, I think it is critical to separate beauty from gender.

I have not figured out how to do this and I know elements of my depression are coming out of this because I'm thinking about what the effects of future aging will do to me as my gender.

I know that in my mind "beauty, gender,love and power" are all wrapped up in one presentation so I must learn to have a healthy relationship with each or I'm looking at a very sad future.

[mikiSJ]

Fashion models are meant to be walking clothes hangers. They are there at the whim of a designer who generally has little idea of what the greatest majority of women will/want to wear.

Just like ballet dancers they fret over gaining an ounce, have a limited career span as being a twenty something in that business is akin to being a grandmother and are seldom as attractive on the street as they are on the runway since they are really just scrawny tall little girls trading on a size 0 body.

I simply want to look like a 66 year old woman who can dodge most of the inane comments about being a "guy in a dress"!

[Frances]

I myself am guilty of it as well, that we be seen as physically attractive?

You are physically attractive already April. The trick is believing it.

[Barbara Ella]

Everyone has a bit of Walter Mitty at work in our mind. Maybe as TS, it becomes a bit more active as we often have more things to think about and make comparisons over than those without the dichotomy to work with.

I totally agree that the real beauty of a person emanates from within, and is so clearly visible through their day to day behavior and demeanor. But, we are creatures of habit, and it is just human to look in the mirror and make comparisons, realistic or not.

The unhealthy part comes in the actions one takes, and if they become extreme, your physical health can be harmed quite easily. The trick is to ensure the mental health does not suffer if the expectations are unreasonable and unattainable and it becomes an obsession.

The balance is always hard.

Barbara

[Kimberly Kael]

Lots of good points in this thread already, and I think Michelle.M really nailed it. Setting unrealistic goals can be frustrating at best, depressing at worst. It helps to realize that even supermodels don't look like supermodels in real life (http://www.mamamia.com.au/social/christmas-victorias-secret-models-without-airbrushing/).

So what are reasonable goals? I think everyone can aim for being accepted, respected, even loved. That's a pretty powerful combination, and it doesn't depend on winning the genetic lottery. Staying healthy is a great secondary goal that doesn't mean obsessing over every bite you eat or a punishing exercise regimen. Smart, healthy decisions can become habits that are completely second nature once you get started down the right path.

[Chari]

We all have the power to change who we are - that is the inner beauty of us. If we are IMO, comfortable and confident in who we are, and most others accept our presentation, then we have discovered that superficial "beauty" lasts for a moment, but inner beauty is for a lifetime!

[Dawn cd]

I look like a super model T Ford. Is that okay?

[Michelle.M]

. . . I believe that "If I could be prettier, I'd be more passable." is valid. But that's just me, and maybe I'm just being vain.

No, you're not being vain. And to some extent, being prettier (or, maybe just more feminine-looking) does make one more passable - more taken seriously as a woman, etc.

But I think you'll find, later on down the road, that the emphasis you put on this now is much greater than you'll discover that it really needed.

[gonegirl]

Thanks Michelle, I'll keep that in mind.

Getting real advice from real people is the reason I hang like to hang around this part of the forum. :^)

Simone.

[Jorja]

This is a list of the top women executives in the U.S. http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0312/top-female-executives-and-ceos.aspx I want you to go look up a picture of each lady. They are not supermodels by far. They are normal ordinary everyday women. Yes, a few are good looking but far from supermodel status.

Get your head out of the clouds. Do the best with the resources you have available to you. Unless you have the proper genetics and are into starving yourself, there is nothing glamorous about being a supermodel. Ask one.

[Angela Campbell]

SUPERMODEL??? gosh I just wanna look like a girl...............

[Marleena]

At my age I'll just be happy to be content.

[Kimberly Kael]

... to some extent, being prettier (or, maybe just more feminine-looking) does make one more passable - more taken seriously as a woman, etc.

Pretty helps get your foot in the door, professionally, but sexy will keep you from ever being taken seriously. It also attracts extra scrutiny that will make it less likely that you'll pass – and more likely to provoke a strong negative reaction if you are read, especially by younger, more insecure men. If you want to be taken seriously, focus on looking like you take care of yourself and are moderately fashionable without being flashy. Find someone successful in your line of work that you might reasonably aspire to be in the next 2-3 years, and take your cues from her.

[Madeline80]

Rianna, I absolutely agree with you on this statement. Inner being and character are so much more important than our external appearance. So why is it so important to some of us, and I myself am guilty of it as well, that we be seen as physically attractive? A few even take this need to extremes by posting photoshopped pictures and or photos of famous and beautiful women some even implying that these photos are actually our own pictures! It seems that inner beauty and character are not held in high regard in the face of external beauty?

We all need something like a 21 year old hottie to aspire to. And surely some members can't post their own photo for fear of repercussions or being outed before they're ready. But if they lead others to believe that they are the model in the photo, that is dishonest and the content of their posts is suspect.

[Inna]

"dream the dream, with all might, with all devotion, without consent to realism nor norm"

That which is real, was once a dream!!!

It is you who want, who inspire, who needs, don't let ANYONE stop, derail, doubt your dreams, they are as real as you want them to be........

sometimes you may be surprised when you surpass your dreams......

[ameliabee]

Healthy? Probably not, but I have every intention of pursuing such as far as I can. It's not an issue of passing - I pass perfectly - but I want to be able to really compete with other women, and '7/10' just doesn't cut it for those purposes. FFS and BA are going to suck, but I'll get to 'em eventually. Oh well...


We all need something like a 21 year old hottie to aspire to. And surely some members can't post their own photo for fear of repercussions or being outed before they're ready. But if they lead others to believe that they are the model in the photo, that is dishonest and the content of their posts is suspect.

Yes, because there are totally random people stalking around here collecting pictures and outing people!

[Marleena]

Yes, because there are totally random people stalking around here collecting pictures and outing people!

If your statement is true (not sarcasm) I find it very disturbing...

I'm not sure what's going on about Kelly's avatar but she's a long time member here. If it's not really her I would assume she had a reason for using it. Maybe she was making a statement about something going on here, IDK.

[Eryn]

"If I could be prettier, I'd be more passable."

I think that this statement is far from true. Pretty women invite close attention and the closer people are paying attention the more likely it is that a flaw will show.

[LeaP]

?.. there are totally random people stalking around here collecting pictures and outing people!

Based on this thread, I'd say the risk of being outed is greater if one uses a false picture - one kind of outing, anyway ...

[Angela Campbell]

To tell the truth I wouldn't start transition and begin taking hormones if I was concerned about being outed.

[LeaP]

At this point I agree, Ellen, though I'd prefer to control the message. But if it happens on its own, I can deal with it.

[Aprilrain]

I'm not sure what's going on about Kelly's avatar but she's a long time member here. If it's not really her I would assume she had a reason for using it. Maybe she was making a statement about something going on here, IDK.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that mine and "Kelly's" avatar is a photograph of Selena Gomez. I have no idea what her motivation for using it was but my motivation for using it is to demonstrate how easy it is for us as woman to have unrealistic expectations of what can be achieved with transition.

[Rianna Humble]

I have no problem with someone who wants to change their photo/avatar to make a point such as the title of this thread.

Side-swipes and snide remarks about other members will not be tolerated and MUST stop here. :angry:

If anyone does not take this warning seriously, they will risk moderator action.

Rianna Humble
Moderator, Transsexual Forums and Safe Haven

[Marleena]

April point taken about false expectations. As far as outing people goes, I can totally understand a TS woman transitioning in a new location to go stealth. I can understand wanting to start a new life as a woman and leaving their past behind. In that circumstance I wouldn't want to be outed either.

[MysticLady]

Thanks Michelle, I'll keep that in mind.
Getting real advice from real people is the reason I hang like to hang around this part of the forum. .

..... :p ...........



Get your head out of the clouds. Do the best with the resources you have available to you. Unless you have the proper genetics and are into starving yourself, there is nothing glamorous about being a supermodel. Ask one.

Jorga, your Cool, and smart.



sometimes you may be surprised when you surpass your dreams......

:thinking:...very nicely put, Inna.




Yes, because there are totally random people stalking around here collecting pictures and outing people!

Who cares about these jokers. Don't be afraid too be yourself.



Side-swipes and snide remarks about other members will not be tolerated and MUST stop here. :angry:


Sorry, I was just confused. It really doesn't matter what anyone decides to use, I just prefer their true faces. But, I know I'm the ugly duckling around here and I'm content w/ that.:)

[Aprilrain]

Mystic lady, you are hardly an ugly duckling.

[Wildaboutheels]

NO, it's NOT healthy unless...

Your question points out one of the great conundrums or Catch - 22s of Society today. [At least here in the US.] Women in general, don't put a man's "looks" at, or sometimes even near the top of their lists, for desirables in a mate. But, unless a "female" never shops for groceries, it's simply IMPOSSIBLE for her not to notice all the [almost always near flawless] smiles, bodies, makeup, hair and clothing, shoes etc. of all the female faces and bodies, on the covers of all the magazines, at the checkout. Even IF a woman never watches any TV or goes to the movies or gets on the Internet, she is going to be subjected to the UNreality of allllll those magazine covers. Unless of course, she has all of her groceries delivered or someone else in the household buys them. Those covers are likely not snapshots taken in someone's back yard. The IMAGES on those covers may involve hundreds of man hours and countless thousands of dollars to "manufacture" involving experts of many types. As long as a female understands this... Obviously few do, since today, so many women of ALL shapes and sizes have such poor self esteem/confidence simply because they think they don't "measure up". Many would measure up just fine given all the "help" that all those covergirls get.

Women COMPETE for men basically, on their "looks" [at least initially] to get the "ball rolling" till personality, charm, brains and everything else kick in. Which is why so many work so hard on their "presentation".

Life 101.

[MysticLady]

Mystic lady, you are hardly an ugly duckling.

Thank You April, that's very kind of you:hugs:



it's simply IMPOSSIBLE for her not to notice all the [almost always near flawless] smiles, bodies, makeup, hair and clothing, shoes etc. of all the female faces and bodies, on the covers of all the magazines, at the checkout.

WAH.....I think it affects both Men and women. We all want to be beautiful. Human Nature. Sometimes, w/ all that subliminal bombardment, It's difficult to stay content.

[Madeline80]

Mystic, I envy you and others who can comfortably post their beautiful, smiling faces for all the world to see.

[Tamara Croft]

I'm not sure what's going on about Kelly's avatar but she's a long time member here. If it's not really her I would assume she had a reason for using it. Maybe she was making a statement about something going on here, IDK.Kelly has never said her avatars/profile pictures are of her, she has always stated she uses someone elses body and puts her face on them, that's been common knowledge since she joined.

[Marleena]

Thanks for clearing that up Tamara.:) Mystery solved.

[Tamara Croft]

Mystery isn't really solved though is it, you alter your pictures in such a way like that, what else is a lie? And that's only what I've read, doesn't make it true does it? It would be different coming from the MTF section, they do it for fun, but the TS section, you're playing with peoples lives and reeling them in as friends... doesn't sit well with me!

[Marleena]

Well Tamara I just assume she is stealth and protecting herself and family by staying anonymous. Any contact I've had with her has seemed genuine much like the rest of the other TS members. I can see where it might upset people though.

[Frances]

This thread has taken an interesting turn.

[Tamara Croft]

And with that said, I know why this thread was started and that doesn't sit well with me either. You have a problem, you PM me about it, I will do something about it, you know this. But instead, one creates a thread like this and it's a shit storm... not impressed.

There are ways to do things, the adult way, not like this.

Thread done.