All or nothing

[Frédérique]

All this and more: A good description for the world of crossdressing, eh? :thinking:

Just under the heading for this section it says, “This section is for those interested in discussing ALL areas of male to female crossdressing.” That’s nice, isn’t it? That’s why I came here in the first place, to discuss my penchant for MtF crossdressing among other crossdressers, and this site definitely features ALL areas of MtF crossdressing. The word “all” is often used with a collective noun, like “All crossdressers are transgender,” but, don’t worry, I’m not gonna go there, as one might surmise – I don’t need someone posting, “There she goes again,” OK?

No, I know what I’m up against, and I’m not here to make an issue of things, but I would like to see a certain amount of fairness regarding ALL types of MtF crossdressing, which is promised, and not having the proceedings lean towards one group or another. “All” means considering everything, or any whatsoever, or existing as a whole. In this case, in this section, we are all MtF crossdressers, or we come in contact with MtF CD’ers one way or another. He may dress as a woman, or want to feel like a woman, however briefly. He may think he really was meant to be a woman, so he dresses like one as often as possible. He may gradually dissolve, and SHE appears to take his place. No matter what the circumstances, we are fighting for our ALL...

I may not be the most serious “type” of MtF crossdresser, but I need to crossdress. Some will ask why this is so (many have already), but there are no easy answers. I see myself as a valid crossdresser, in the purest sense of the word, so I am here, amongst the other crossdressers. I obviously have some connection with the matter at hand, which happens to be MtF crossdressing. I have respect for all types of crossdressers, so I wish some respectful consideration would emanate from other quarters, especially in this section. The fact that I’m writing this is twofold – I seek others like me, and I don’t need to feel like the “weak sister” of the crossdressing movement...

The odds are stacked against me, and others like me, here on a site devoted to crossdressing. Strange, isn’t it? If I dared to speak of numbers, I would propose that my “type” of MtF CD’er is the most numerous, but apparently we don’t count for anything. However, it’s OK. I didn’t come here for a struggle, or a battle, or a contest of wills, rather I am merely interrupting my frolicking for a brief dip into the world I must be associated with. There’s not much laughter, and there’s not many smiling faces, so pardon me if I wonder, from time to time, just what I’ve gotten myself into. Is this ALL there is, dear reader?

Recently I took a lengthy break from posting. I didn’t post for a week or so, and it felt good (i.e. I didn’t miss it), so I kept staying away. In my unforced absence, it’s funny how this place takes on a mythic resonance, if that is the correct phrase. All I can think about is this self-distilled idea that we, the part-time MtF crossdressers, either aren’t appreciated by the membership as a whole, or we just aren’t welcome, despite assurances to the contrary. Referencing the text below the MtF sectional heading, we MUST be welcome, to a certain degree, even though we may represent a thorn in the side of LGBT. Again, this is my personal feeling, which may or may not reflect the way things are, but when I see the word “ALL,” hope springs eternal...

At best, my “brand” of crossdressing is, at the very least, noteworthy, an individualistic exercise of the tallest order. As such, I may not need support from the “community” per se, but it’s good to know that there are others like me who may wish to discuss this odd, yet natural, compulsion. Don’t get me wrong – I respect anyone who is transgender, but many of us JUST crossdress, M to F, and we have a good time doing so. All in all, you should take time to consider that...

Don't you think "all" should mean ALL? :idontknow:

[Kate Simmons]

Freddy, I think what you are saying is OK my friend. OK is an abbreviation that literally means "all correct" or "all right". Need I say more? Like yourself I enjoy the CDing and just have fun being myself. I don't need to be TG or anything else to do that Hon.:)

[Zylia]

I just posted something about this in the 'girl inside' thread. I do not feel 'transgender' in the literal sense that it feels like I have the wrong gender or multiple genders. It feels like I made my female persona rather than discovering it inside me. I really do like to dress up and do it right and there's a real sense of accomplishment when I manage to look 'feminine' and fool other people, which may have become a thing on its own, but I'm fairly sure the deepest motivation for me to do this is purely a sexual one, not one of 'gender confusion'. I do fantasize about stepping out more sometimes, but I often wonder if it's not just one big sexual fantasy.

[GaleWarning]

I'm just wondering WHY you feel that our kind of CDing (I'm a bloke in a dress) doesn't get the same "airtime" as any other genre? Who or what upset you?

I find it fascinating to read the posts covering the amazingly broad spectrum of mtf people and their SOs in this site. How would I ever have learned where I fit on the spectrum, if I could not read all the other posts AND THOSE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE AT LEAST SIMILAR TO ME.

Nowadays, I am able to be more selective in choosing what to read and what to ignore.

In conclusion, Freddie, I cannot see why you think "our" kind of CDing isn't fairly represented, unless it is that we simply don't post as often as others with different interests.

(Your post, as usual, is thought-provoking! Keep them coming!)

[Tamara Croft]

The odds are stacked against me <snip>The odds are stacked against you, because all you do is friggin moan about this forum and how it isn't for you etc... so if this forum is no good for you, then go find one that is, because quite frankly, I am sick of your goddamn whining, get a sodding grip :Angry3:

[Debutante]

I appreciate your thoughts and intricate musings, Freddie.... you say things alot of us are thinking -- or challenging us with new perspectives. Yes, you are the most individualistic of crossdressers... but then, that's the nature of the phenomenon. We are all parts of a "tapestry",
as Merissa Cheryl Lynn, founder of IFGE, once put it. I love crossdresing too..........

[Seana Summer]

Hi Freddy

I think I see where your coming from. I agree that All should mean All and I choose to ignore those who think I am not valid for not posting pics of myself, for not going out more, or for not trying hard enough. However with patience and the short time I have participated here, I have made some friendships that I treasure.

I do not consider myself to be Transgender as in wanting to have SRS or hormone therapy. I wish nothing but the best for those who do. I consider myself a Crossdresser, I like being a man.....and I like to wear womens clothing. Why do I feel the need to wear a dress and all the rest now and then, d***** if I know, and I no longer care why. I am getting too d***** old to waste time trying to figure that out, worry about it or let those who disapprove bother me.

I think the "Plain ole boring Crossdressers", as I have taken to call myself (I am stealing that phrase from a post by Greenie), are just less vocal, but no less valid and there seems to be lots of us around.

Those who wish to peer down their nose at me are respectfully ignored. They don't make enough Oil of Olay to soften my Hyde!:D

[jenni_xx]

Doesn't a man who simply crossdresses, such as yourself, come under the term "transgender"?

Why do you think that part-time crossdressers aren't, in your words, "appreciated by the membership as a whole, or we just aren't welcome"? What has given you that idea exactly? I would say, strictly speaking, that the vast majority of members here come under the term "part-time crossdressers", in the sense that they cross-dress for part of their time. Or is it something else you are suggesting - that you identify yourself as a crossdresser only on a temporary basis (that is, when you actually do crossdress), and at other times (when you don't crossdress), you don't regard yourself as a cross-dresser at all? If that's the case, then you are sorely mistaken. I only cross-dress on occasion, and those occasions vary in both frequency and intensity. But even when I'm not dressed, or haven't dressed en femme for quite some time, I'm still a crossdresser. It's a label, a definition, that is applicable to me. And to you. And to everyone else who engages in this activity, irrespective of how much they engage in it.

So you'll have to forgive me in making the following assumption about you: I'm not sure that you realise, or accept, or understand, just what your own understanding, your own realisation, of what a crossdresser actually is. You really are no different from the majority here, yet it seems that you are attempting to distance yourself, paint yourself, regard yourself, as someone different to the vast majority here. You are, simply, and obviously, singling yourself out. And asking questions that really don't hold much credence from the perspective that you are claiming to have. You call it "your brand of crossdressing". You say it's an individualistic exercise of "the tallest order". That is rubbish. And you effectively show why it is rubbish with your subsequent comment - "this odd, yet natural, compulsion". A phrasing that, in all honesty, pretty much describes EVERY SINGLE MAN here.

So to answer your question - yes I do think "all" should mean ALL. I'll take it one step further and provide you a concrete answer: Here, all DOES mean all. And that includes you. So please, just stop trying to create a falsehood that is somehow intent on distinguishing you from any one else who is part of this community. Either on this site, or more generally.

[Madeline80]

As a new plain old CDer, no hormones or surgery, I have felt welcomed here and have experienced nothing but support and encouragement. I don't expect that to change if I eventually move up or down the TG ladder. I think I saved thousands on therapy just by reading the posts and coming to a clear understanding of myself.

[Princess Grandpa]

I have made some online friends and a couple of those I have now met in person. My journey into self discovery is made easier because of this site. I don't know how long I will stay here. I can't honestly say that I felt welcomed by the site. Yes there were plenty of hi's on my intro post but.. Some of the members and one of the mods has gone to great length to make sure I felt welcome and part of the community. Other things have chased my wife away already and take a heavy toll on my desire to continue here. I will leave it at that as I know I'm not allowed to criticize the site or its staff. As long as the benefit I continue to get outweighs the things that bother me I will continue to visit here. As Madeline says "I have saved thousands on therapy"

If you ever need an ear...
Hug
Rita

[Sister Rachel]

Frederique, I think maybe you don't get as much feedback as you crave because your posts are always asking rather deep and complex questions that no-one really has ready answers to, and if they did, they would seem glib and shallow .. I think what you're really looking for is a one-on-one intellectual/ spiritual/ philosophical relationship.

If any people in the forum think I'm a second or third class citizen because I can't "pass", and don't really want to enter a beauty contest, well, that's up to them, it doesn't worry me!:)

The open forums are a place to hang out and chat more than for really deep and personal stuff, I think.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Doesn't a man who simply crossdresses, such as yourself, come under the term "transgender"?


I don't understand your issue Frederique. I see myself as transgendered (as per Jenni's post) and sometimes get to express the female by crossdressing. The rest of the time I am happily male and it is sure less hastle that way.

There are many points along the spectrum and all have their chance to learn and contribute to the forums. I certainly have learned considerably from others leading to greater understanding and acceptance. Sure, over time, topics go in cycles with less 'fresh' material. That's our chance to give back helping others by displaying understanding and tolerance.

While there may be a degree of intolerance by individual posters (which simply reflects any society) I certainly haven't felt any point on the spectrum is seen as superior.

Michelle

[kimdl93]

Here's my take on this. There are all kinds of CDrs. There may indeed be more part time as you describe them, than those who are more involved in CDing as an expression of gender identification. (i won't engage in the debate on who is transgendered, since the term seems emotionally loaded for some readers)

I have heard a number of complaints from members who feel the part time dresser is diminished or not adequately represented in the topics posted here. If that is true, then it seems to me that the only remedy is for people who have that level of interest to post new threads that are relevant to them and invite discussion by others.

Those of us who are more involved, who do want to live and present as women...which still covers range of degrees...post and respond based on our interests. It may be that we frequent the site more often or have feel a greater need to post and discuss issues of relevance to us, but that certainly is not a deliberate attempt to exclude or minimize those with different interests.

I read and respond to what interests me...evidently a lot of things do, since I have over 11,000 posts!

[Deedee Skyblue]

Missed you, Freddy! I feel somewhat the same way you do, so what I do now is be very selective about the threads I read - and I skip the posts that seem to me to be 'unwelcoming' of the way I choose to be a crossdresser. There are enough people here who have similar interests that I can always find an interesting discussion. Good to see you again!

Deedee

[NicoleScott]

I hear you, Frederique, and I agree with you, so I guess I deserve a bitch-slappin', too.

[Leona]

To be honest, if someone posted a thread like this on the forums where I am a moderator, I'd post a simple "This is an obvious troll" response.

What I see here, I consider to be normal. There isn't an intentional emphasis on one group over another. Instead there's a wide variation of participation levels of individuals, interest in particular threads, so you don't always see mods stepping in, for example. I had a thread that took 3 days for the mods to delete, and I was astonished it took that long. Upon reflection, I realized none of the ones active those first two days were interested enough to open it, then on the third day a mod suddenly got interested.

It's the same with the regular members. If you notice a TS focus for a few days, it's probably because there are more TS's posting at the time, or more threads that interest enough of them.

Everybody's got their views, and it seems to me that most people here are respectful of that fact. Of the few that aren't, mods are usually quick to say something and handle it. So with everyone having their own views, it's reasonable and expected to see strong differences of opinion.

But see, there's also a world of difference between these two statements:

"I would like TG people to have more recognition as people in the world, therefore I wear a skirt to the grocery store."

"If you're serious about being a crossdresser, you have to go out so that you can help make the world better for all of us."

I don't know of any movement that ever gained serious traction by bullying its members into acting a certain way, and when those sorts of statements come at me (pushing me to act a certain way, that is), I push back as nicely as I can without getting moderated. :) And these forums don't exist for political organization anyway, they're a support forum, so people using them to try to organize a political group are more akin to someone throwing a vibrator and telling their dog to "fetch".

[CarolynO]

I think the gist of Frederique's thread may be the" trannier than thou" attitude perceived around the forum from some members.
Since I joined is Jan. and having been around reading and posting,I haven't seen it either here at mtf cd or the ts forum.All those who replied in my ts thread were helpful and courteous.

[Leona]

CarolynO: You may be right, we'll have to wait for her to come back and clarify that. I definitely interpreted it as more to do with activism, coming out, and being in public.

But in response to the "trannier than thou" attitude, it's worth pointing out that often times a vocal minority can make it seem like the majority has a particular view. I do not believe that the majority has that view here. I do believe it's possible to interpret many posts as reading that way, and I make the choice when I see it to instead interpret it as that member's contribution based on their real life.

Even when someone intends to say something for you to take personally, you always have the choice whether or not to do so.

[Beverley Sims]

Frederique,
Nice to see you back. :)
Like Kate what you say is okay, meaning correct.
Some rules need to be bent a little as we are all bent in some way here.
To make it black and white does stimulate discussion although I think a little wast of time in some instances.
I have said things here in the wrong section and if you misconstrue what I say and put it into black and white I would be banned long ago.
Moderators look at what people "are trying to say, not what they put down in print", so I do not think the rules can be too rigid.
I also have to hide behind Tamara also and say to you think hard, at what your objectives are and write some more of that wax lyrical stuff that got us thinking.
I will get off my soap box now and look for some real old Frederique, rhetoric. :)
Stop thinking too hard the rest of us are lazy.
As I have said before I have an attention span of two inches. :)

[Deedee Skyblue]

The odds are stacked against you, because all you do is friggin moan about this forum and how it isn't for you etc... so if this forum is no good for you, then go find one that is, because quite frankly, I am sick of your goddamn whining, get a sodding grip :Angry3:

I'm going to try this again. Couldn't you have found some way to make your point without being quite so emphatic?

Deedee

[Tamara Croft]

No...............

[TheMissus]

Fredrique, as the wife of a CD who, like you, is the less serious, non transgender type, I can readily agree with what you've written. It can be difficult to pick through the information here and find what's relevant. But I guess that's the case on most open forums - those who do it the most, post the most.

Doesn't mean your side isn't valid or needed. I'm a wife who desperately NEEDS to hear more from men like you as I can tell you, your type of CD is just as difficult for a wife to understand as the more 'serious' type. Perhaps easier to live with, but definitely still confusing!

I'll just have to keep picking through the posts in the interim :)

[Julie Gaum]

Always a pleasure to see you back. I do believe that there has already been numerous responses that, in summary, believe as I do
that you are not as unique CD-wise as you say you are. Without starting a debate we are all somewhere in the TG spectrum unless,
like many members, your needs bring you into the TS segment. Further, I don't need a poll to know that the majority, even if 51%, are part-timers for whatever their reasons. And many of those are out and about --- doesn't make them better even if a case be made that they are better helping the CD cause by doing so and also, at the same time, enjoying their actions --- why not? I fully agree that this PT majority are probably far less vocal --- especially those still closeted. Why? Either because they may have fewer adventures to write about or maybe their "closet" mindset carries over to restraint in exposing their feelings. Whatever the reasons ---why not? Are there small groups with similar inclinations or on a similar stage of their journey? Of course there are and they enjoy communicating their commonality. Do some become hostile or demeaning to other members? Yes, but one shouldn't take such comments to heart for unless such persons know you personally why should one take umbrage. Be happy, Freddy, we are all one family and you are NOT an outsider!
Julie

[MysticLady]

I may not be the most serious “type” of MtF crossdresser, but I need to crossdress.

Hi Freddy, Most of the time, my crossdressing is............. A lazy slob for not dressing , sitting in front of this computer and talking w/ everyone. 99% of the time, I look like something the cat dragged in. Maybe I should make that my Avatar:heehee:.


I am sick of your goddamn whining, get a sodding grip :Angry3:

You Meanie, no more cookies for you:heehee:

It all right Freddy, don't cry:itsok:


As a new plain old CDer, no hormones or surgery, I have felt welcomed here and have experienced nothing but support and encouragement.

Good Job. BTW..Thank You for the compliment on the other thread. I bet you wouldn't say that if you saw what I look like now:eek:


I hear you, Frederique, and I agree with you, so I guess I deserve a bitch-slappin', too.

A slapping we will go, a slapping we will go, hi ho merri-o, a slapping we will go:)
See Below


To be honest, if someone posted a thread like this on the forums where I am a moderator, I'd post a simple "This is an obvious troll" response.


See Below.


I think the gist of Frederique's thread may be the" trannier than thou" attitude perceived around the forum from some members.


:yt:


Fredrique, as the wife of a CD who, like you, is the less serious, non transgender type, I can readily agree with what you've written. It can be difficult to pick through the information here and find what's relevant. But I guess that's the case on most open forums - those who do it the most, post the most.

Doesn't mean your side isn't valid or needed. I'm a wife who desperately NEEDS to hear more from men like you as I can tell you, your type of CD is just as difficult for a wife to understand as the more 'serious' type. Perhaps easier to live with, but definitely still confusing!
:)

Mrs. , I am working on an anti confusion pill:heehee:. Once done, I'll test it on the wife before marketing it, just in case there's problems w/ it:D


Hi Freddy, welcome back. Like to partially read some of your stuff (too long sometimes and like I said, I'm lazy and short minded. By the time I get to the end, I already forgot the Beginning:heehee:) Anyway, just keep on keeping on. Sometimes, my 1 brain cell just can't handle your high intellect membrane posts, so I leave them for the smart ones. Anyway kiddo, being from Kansas and all, you should be familiar w/ thick hides. BTW..How's the cattle business up there. Any grass? We're all dried up down here. Looking for Hay, you got any?:)

[ReineD]

Freddy, I'm so sorry that you feel unwelcome here. I've read tens of thousands of threads here as you know, and I can say with some accuracy that members do not disparage men who say they just like to CD. They may disagree with some of the definitions, but they don't dislike you nor do they wish you gone.


It feels like I made my female persona rather than discovering it inside me.

This is brilliant, Zylia ... this and the rest of your post. I don't think I've ever seen it put this way before.

It's a good question to ask the forum members, in another thread of course: did you make your female persona, or did you discover her inside you?

... or, did you initially make her, but then she became a part of you?

[Leona]

Why haven't you started this thread, yet, ReineD?

[AmyGaleRT]

Frédérique, I'm confused. I'm only a part-time dresser, same as you, and I haven't seen any sign that I'm unwelcome here. Quite the opposite, in fact; I have some real girlfriends here, some of whom I've been able to meet and hug in real life!

Or is it just that you and I feel differently about our inner feminine nature? I don't hold that against you; I know there are approximately as many reasons people have for crossdressing as there are crossdressers. :) And, while I feel a certain way about myself (that I have a part-female soul), I know that this is just my feeling, a theory that happens to fit the facts. If some other theory fit better, I'd junk my current one and go with that.

I do know I've missed your commentary, which is always good to read even if I don't have anything to say about it. You're like the "thinker" or "essayist" of this forum. It makes me wonder if you shouldn't think about writing a book...

- Amy

[Frédérique]

To be honest, if someone posted a thread like this on the forums where I am a moderator, I'd post a simple "This is an obvious troll" response.

Exactly the kind of response I would expect from someone who misses the point. FYI, I’m really NOT interested in your response, so how can it be considered to be trolling? People tend to trot out the “troll” moniker when they don’t like the tone of something I’ve written. I’m merely trying to point out a discrepancy on this site, based on several years of observation, before it gets buried under tons of TG verbiage. Sorry if I sound miffed, but replies like yours are very frustrating and self-serving…

How long have you been HERE, anyway? :sigh:


Anyway kiddo, being from Kansas and all, you should be familiar w/ thick hides. BTW..How's the cattle business up there. Any grass? We're all dried up down here.

I have a thick hide, developed (against my will) during the course of four years of activity. It’s very WET here in Kansas at the moment, soon to be much wetter, and the tall grass is green…


Freddy, I'm so sorry that you feel unwelcome here. I've read tens of thousands of threads here as you know, and I can say with some accuracy that members do not disparage men who say they just like to CD. They may disagree with some of the definitions, but they don't dislike you nor do they wish you gone.

Posted like a GG who is not on this side of the equation. Shall I show you the many deleted, closed and/or altered threads that I have in my collection, detritus of the many battles I’ve had with certain “types” of MtF crossdressers and their supporters? That may open your eyes. If my memory serves me, I believe you once posted several anti-responses to my simple “I like to wear women’s clothing” thread – doesn’t that amount to disparagement?

BTW, if people don’t dislike me, they have a funny way of showing it (see post #5). Things like that make me feel VERY unwelcome here…:straightface:

[Zylia]

This is brilliant, Zylia ... this and the rest of your post. I don't think I've ever seen it put this way before.

It's a good question to ask the forum members, in another thread of course: did you make your female persona, or did you discover her inside you?

... or, did you initially make her, but then she became a part of you?
It is an interesting question, but it also requires a lot of soul searching and honesty. I don't really know what 'true' transgender people actually feel and I'm going out on a huge limb here, but I feel some cross-dressers would rather want to believe that their gender assigned at birth isn't 100% correct instead of acknowledging that their ever escalating cross-dressing habits are grounded in fetishism. That's not to say it's still purely a sexual thing after years of doing it: I feel good doing it, but it doesn't 'excite' me any more than seeing well-dressed women in the streets. I also wonder if the reason why the CD community as a whole mainly dresses up like 'female cliches' (in the words of TheMissus) rather than, you know, actual women, has something to do with this.

Edit:
Amy Gale actually made this thread here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?198964-Finding-your-Femmeself). I think I wrote a better response there.

[Leona]

[COLOR="black"]Exactly the kind of response I would expect from someone who misses the point. FYI, I’m really NOT interested in your response, so how can it be considered to be trolling? People tend to trot out the “troll” moniker when they don’t like the tone of something I’ve written. I’m merely trying to point out a discrepancy on this site, based on several years of observation, before it gets buried under tons of TG verbiage. Sorry if I sound miffed, but replies like yours are very frustrating and self-serving…

You only read the first sentence, obviously.


I have a thick hide, developed (against my will) during the course of four years of activity. It’s very WET here in Kansas at the moment, soon to be much wetter, and the tall grass is

Obviously not, or you would have read my entire post.

At this point, I'm agreeing with Tamara. This is all drama queening, with very little substance.

[Zylia]

@Frédérique I'm new here so what do I know, but derailing the thread with hostilities and complaining about all that meta forum crap is a surefire way to get this one closed as well, which would be a pity, because the opening post is a good read and offers quite a few good things to talk about. Maybe it's my inexperience on this forum, but I wouldn't victimize myself so much if I wanted to get my point across. Anyway, thanks for your insights for the time being.

Tamara really has a way with words. I can only hope to become as eloquent as her :o

[Shelly Preston]

hi Frédérique

I do notice you seem to on the nothing side of the all or nothing question.

I have been here a long time and I am struggling to remember a thread where you posted about enjoying your time crossdressing. (there may have been some)

This may be part of the reason why you feel things are unfair as others do not see you relaxing. You are always raising questions and yes this can help provide a better understanding of our differences but its not always about questions IMHO

This forum is for everyone but no one can force people to agree with them. We are all different and that is why there can be some good debates sometimes.

[Tamara Croft]

This is all drama queening, with very little substance.Exactly!! And Freddy, you wouldn't get so many posts/threads deleted if they didn't break the forum rules, so let's not go there shall we??

You post for the drama, you are infact a huge drama queen, woe is me etc etc... You keeps saying you're not transgender, well no you're not. Transgender and Transgendered have different meanings, you should try looking them both up, then you might not be so confused.

[Claire Cook]

IMHO, the varied responses to this post prove Freddy's point. I thought the purpose of this site was to provide support, share experiences and help us explore ourselves. Certainly we will disagree -- the old Mark Twain adage about differences of opinion making a horse race -- but we need to respect each other, as well as ourselves. Freddy, I for one have missed your musings -- even if they sometimes take me a bit too much time to digest!

I am surprised and dismayed at the lack of tolerance that we sometimes express in our posts. How can we hope for some sort of tolerance from non-TG's, (be they wives / GF's, neighbors or those we interact with when Out and About) when we don't show this kind of tolerance for ourselves? In one of Kate Bornstein's books she posted a tongue-in-cheek list of the TG spectrum ("Post-op TS's who look down on ...who look down on .. ") . We don't need this here; it's not just All or Nothing, it includes everything in between.

OK, Claire is getting off her little Ivory Soap box....

[TheMissus]

...but I feel some cross-dressers would rather want to believe that their gender assigned at birth isn't 100% correct instead of acknowledging that their ever escalating cross-dressing habits are grounded in fetishism.

Off topic here, I know, but I'd love to see a separate thread about this as THIS is exactly what my H also says and some of the CD wives I've recently spoken to say the same thing - their husbands insist on giving non-sexual reasons to explain their escalating CDing and are actually making life more difficult for it. (It's nearly impossible for a wife not to realize true motive when she's living it every day, and believe me, most women prefer honesty over politically correct BS!) I can only guess people do this because they feel embarrassed to have a fetish?

Seems sad to me - sexuality is as much a part of who we are as anything else and as authentic a reason to CD as gender dysphoria or stress or whatever. But, that's another thread again and I'm hoping Zylia will start one soon :)

[Zylia]

Hey TheMissus, Amy Gale actually made this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?198964-Finding-your-Femmeself) and I think we're already exploring that exact idea. Every thread here is in dire need of a honest GG perspective (even if it's not the only GG perspective), so please come and visit :)

[MysticLady]

You post for the drama, you are infact a huge drama queen, woe is me etc etc... You keeps saying you're not transgender, well no you're not. Transgender and Transgendered have different meanings, you should try looking them both up, then you might not be so confused.

Very Nice, I guess you can have a cookie now. :D

You know Tamara, Drama, is part of this phenomenon, I'm sure you've read my thread in the Love ones Section. As a matter of fact, Drama, just makes me feel more Fem for some reason or another. This fem thing just let's me open up about my life. I hate Drama as a man, I would never discuss this, I would just keep it bottled up until I would explode , like a nuke. Just my thoughts.

[Princess Grandpa]

Exactly!! And Freddy, you wouldn't get so many posts/threads deleted if they didn't break the forum rules, so let's not go there shall we??

At the risk of losing my own welcome on these sites, I have to ask, are these rules only enforced on those who disagree with you or the ones you dislike? I'm pretty sure profanity and verbal assault are also against the forum rules. Do you intend to delete your own posts on this thread?


The odds are stacked against you, because all you do is friggin moan about this forum and how it isn't for you etc... so if this forum is no good for you, then go find one that is, because quite frankly, I am sick of your goddamn whining, get a sodding grip :Angry3:

It's you're forums you have absolute power. So that makes this acceptable?

Hug
Rita

[Veronica27]

At the risk of losing my own welcome on these sites, I have to ask, are these rules only enforced on those who disagree with you or the ones you dislike? I'm pretty sure profanity and verbal assault are also against the forum rules. Do you intend to delete your own posts on this thread?



It's you're forums you have absolute power. So that makes this acceptable?

Hug
Rita

Thanks for pointing this out. This addresses much of Freddie's concerns. She does have a "grip" and not a "gripe".

[Lorileah]

I intended to stay out of this because it is just a rehash of the same old thing that Freddy posts all the time and I agree with the posts that say she is looking for a response so she can b*tch about it (ok Freddy, your turn).
Exactly the kind of response I would expect from someone who misses the point. Just what is the point? You complain you don't get respect for your ideals, then you shoot down others for the same reason. You divide the forum to try and prove a point when it wasn't divided to start with. You say you don't get respect then you tell another member
FYI, I’m really NOT interested in your response,

trying to point out a discrepancy on this site, based on several years of observation, before it gets buried under tons of TG verbiage. says the queen of weasel words and twists, the one who makes up her own definitions to suit her point of view.
Sorry if I sound miffed, but replies like yours are very frustrating and self-serving… says the queen of self serving. Really Freddy, why do you keep coming back if this site bothers you so much. Aren't there enough windmills in Kansas?






I have a thick hide, as evidenced by the above quotes... :brolleyes:




Posted like a GG who is not on this side of the equation. Nice and diplomatic. Did you stomp your foot too? So now the TSs and the GGs have pissed in your Cheerios...and you wonder why people don't like you?
Shall I show you the many deleted, closed and/or altered threads that I have in my collection, detritus of the many battles I’ve had with certain “types” of MtF crossdressers and their supporters? Any threads you have had closed or deleted violated a rule. I told you early on I would defend you and your posts but you never make it easy. I have given up.


BTW, if people don’t dislike me, they have a funny way of showing it (see post #5). Things like that make me feel VERY unwelcome here…:straightface: When you start out goading different members, you expect unicorns?


At the risk of losing my own welcome on these sites, I have to ask, are these rules only enforced on those who disagree with you or the ones you dislike? I'm pretty sure profanity and verbal assault are also against the forum rules. Do you intend to delete your own posts on this thread? Remember that Tamara is a member here and she has the same rights and regulations as anyone else. She voiced an opinion. It is an opinion shared by many. Often Freddy's threads are closed when complaints about them reach the staff. They may not post on her thread, in fact look at the number of views vs the number of replies. But they often insult the very people she thinks she is defending. There are a few people here who believe they are somehow disenfranchised because of a perceived (yes perceived) line in the sand between what they see as different factions. Those people are the ones who made the lines, no one else has. As far as rules being enforced, I can tell you that the moderators on this particular part of the forum give a lot of leeway and try and allow people to discuss things without interference. We may let a lot of petty stuff go but we do follow the rules. Nothing that has been closed or deleted has been done frivolously. We don't have vendettas. It becomes difficult though when a person or persons start sniping from the start.

Understand also that this is a private web site, paid for by a private group. You get to use it for free. The owners don't interfere but trust the staff to keep it in line. This is like herding cats. Especially when threads are started with no other purpose than to elicit anger.

[Princess Grandpa]

Remember that Tamara is a member here and she has the same rights and regulations as anyone else.


This is true and not called into question. My question was regarding what I understood to be unacceptable behavior from any member. If the post does not follow the forum guidelines it should/will be deleted. If any other member read a post and responded like that would they not be in violation? Isn't the appropriate response to a thread you dislike to ignore that thread? How can it ever be right to treat someone like that?

Understand also that this is a private web site, paid for by a private group. You get to use it for free.


I fully recognize this and am grateful for the opportunity. I also have been told questioning this type of thing is what can lead to no longer being allowed use of these forums.This is why I thought about it over nightbefore responding. I fear greatly the results of this thread. A smart girl who is new in town would just shut up. The need to question injustice outweighed my fear of banishment. Mom taught me to speak up when someone is being bullied.

I don't know Ms. Fredrique at all. It could be exactly as you say she is a drama queen who likes to whine. Maybe in a few months I will cringe at the site of her avatar. And understand exactly what you all are saying. Who knows? Don't drama queens deserve the same humanitarian treatment as the rest of us? If I see threads I don't like or disagree with even one I believe is an intentional trawl does that give me or any member, let alone an administrator the right to treat another human being that way?

I hope this does not lead to loss of my privileges to use this site but right is right.

Hug
Rita

[Frédérique]

(ok Freddy, your turn).

I have a PM to send to you. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it… :heehee:


I don't know Ms. Fredrique at all. It could be exactly as you say she is a drama queen who likes to whine. Maybe in a few months I will cringe at the site of her avatar.

I assure you that I am a lovely individual, just a lonely crossdresser out in the wilderness. I am NOT a drama queen, and I do not come here to whine about things. Over the course of 2500+ posts, during sincere attempts at generating discussion, I have been misinterpreted on occasion by those who don’t agree with anything I submit. Please consider me to be a friend of ALL crossdressers…

I’ll send you a PM, OK? It may be quite lengthy...:battingeyelashes:

[Princess Grandpa]

My apologies, I did not mean to cast aspersions at you, merely to say its not relevant.

Hug
Rita

[ReineD]

If my memory serves me, I believe you once posted several anti-responses to my simple “I like to wear women’s clothing” thread – doesn’t that amount to disparagement?

Freddy, this is my point. We've had differences of opinion on definitions, but I never disliked you. As far as I remember, I've always treated you with respect. In fact, I remember at one point you were talking about your sadness over your sister's inability to understand, and I tried to help by giving you my GG point of view. I would not have done this if I thought ill of you. And I suspect that other forum members feel the same way.

[Tracii G]

Some here do moan and carry on or rehash how they feel that no one understands them or they don't fit a mold of some sort.
My question is to those that do make these threads over and over knowing its going to bring a poo storm of criticism? Aren't you bringing more negative feelings in to your life causing you more alienation?

Understand I'm not bashing any one person here but some of the long winded esoteric posts remind me of psychology classes I had in college.No right or wrong answer just a battle of wits between supposedly learned people.
If someone sees you arguing with an idiot how can they tell who is the idiot?

[Veronica27]

The fact that some commenters refer to your post with words such as "moan", "whining", "drama queen" and so on (expletives deleted) proves your point that you are discounted as being a real or true or legitimate or whatever crossdresser (or transgender if you prefer) by those people, unless you subscribe to their thinking that this is all about confusion or conflict between our "gender" and our genetic sex. I enclosed gender in quotation marks as it is an abstract as opposed to a concrete noun. As such its meaning is totally subjective.

These people are indeed dismissive of anyone who expresses a view that their crossdressing has nothing to do with such a personal identity issue. Their message is that anything other than a gender issue is "fetishistic", sexual in nature or some other equally derogatory term that deserves their scorn.

Crossdressing is still a societal taboo and there is a stigma attached to it and anyone who practices it. Those of us who indulge in this passion feel a need to legitimize our actions which contributes to the inordinate amount of thought that occupies the time of most of us. Nobody worries about why they play golf, build model planes or trains, exercise excessively or listen to certain forms of music, because all of those things are socially acceptable. We may muse about what we derive from them, but never what causes them. The theory that a gender conflict is the cause of our crossdressing is an attractive one because it removes the responsibility for our actions from our conscious decision making processes and makes it an involuntary reaction. This theory may be true for some, but I feel that others are being coerced into accepting it for themselves by the forces of activism and political correctness, and its superficial attractiveness. We all want to be handed a nice simple solution to our problems.

In this environment, people who insist their crossdressing has nothing to do with gender identity are dismissed by the "trannier than thou" folks. Yes, these attitudes do exist in this forum and those of us who attempt to articulate our viewpoints do get shot down quite often, but I have noticed that there is an increasing number of folks who are supportive, not necessarily of our opinion or terminology but of our right to free expression.

Veronica

[Tamara Croft]

I don't know Ms. Fredrique at all.No you don't, but I do, I've been here long enough to know just why Freddy posts these kinds of threads. You have no idea about the threads created by Freddy that have caused an absolute shit storm not just in this section, but also in the TS section and a lot of them do not go down well, especially when Freddy insults people to the point it causes a flame war.

And no, I will not delete my posts, I'm also a member... just not a drama queen!!

[Leona]

IMHO, the varied responses to this post prove Freddy's point. I thought the purpose of this site was to provide support, share experiences and help us explore ourselves. Certainly we will disagree -- the old Mark Twain adage about differences of opinion making a horse race -- but we need to respect each other, as well as ourselves.

Agreed with the last part, especially the "respect ourselves" part.


I am surprised and dismayed at the lack of tolerance that we sometimes express in our posts. How can we hope for some sort of tolerance from non-TG's, (be they wives / GF's, neighbors or those we interact with when Out and About) when we don't show this kind of tolerance for ourselves?

Here are all the snippets of languages from the OP to which I am, and always will be, intolerant. They are also what shows this is drama queening.


don’t worry, I’m not gonna go there, as one might surmise – I don’t need someone posting, “There she goes again,” OK?

...

No, I know what I’m up against, and I’m not here to make an issue of things,

...

The odds are stacked against me, and others like me, here on a site devoted to crossdressing.

...



This is all weasel language, and it's existence colors the entire rest of the post making it look extremely passive-aggressive.

Now, here is what the OP would look like without this stuff in it, and with a minor change to make it honest to itself:


[COLOR="black"]All this and more: A good description for the world of crossdressing, eh? :thinking:

Just under the heading for this section it says, “This section is for those interested in discussing ALL areas of male to female crossdressing.” That’s nice, isn’t it? That’s why I came here in the first place, to discuss my penchant for MtF crossdressing among other crossdressers, and this site definitely features ALL areas of MtF crossdressing. The word “all” is often used with a collective noun, like “All crossdressers are transgender,”, and it's well established that I disagree with that statement.

I would like to see a certain amount of fairness regarding ALL types of MtF crossdressing, which is promised, and not having the proceedings lean towards one group or another. “All” means considering everything, or any whatsoever, or existing as a whole. In this case, in this section, we are all MtF crossdressers, or we come in contact with MtF CD’ers one way or another. He may dress as a woman, or want to feel like a woman, however briefly. He may think he really was meant to be a woman, so he dresses like one as often as possible. He may gradually dissolve, and SHE appears to take his place. No matter what the circumstances, we are fighting for our ALL...

I may not be the most serious “type” of MtF crossdresser, but I need to crossdress. Some will ask why this is so (many have already), but there are no easy answers. I see myself as a valid crossdresser, in the purest sense of the word, so I am here, amongst the other crossdressers. I obviously have some connection with the matter at hand, which happens to be MtF crossdressing. I have respect for all types of crossdressers, so I wish some respectful consideration would emanate from other quarters, especially in this section. The fact that I’m writing this is twofold – I seek others like me, and I don’t need to feel like the “weak sister” of the crossdressing movement...

If I were to speak of numbers, I would propose that my “type” of MtF CD’er is the most numerous. snipped (much of this part of the commentary has substance, but I didn't want to edit it and add a bunch of words that aren't there, trying to keep my changes small to make the removal of weasel words seemless)

Recently I took a lengthy break from posting. I didn’t post for a week or so, and it felt good (i.e. I didn’t miss it), so I kept staying away. In my unforced absence, it’s funny how this place takes on a mythic resonance, if that is the correct phrase. All I can think about is this self-distilled idea that we, the part-time MtF crossdressers, either aren’t appreciated by the membership as a whole, or we just aren’t welcome, despite assurances to the contrary. Referencing the text below the MtF sectional heading, we MUST be welcome, to a certain degree, even though we may represent a thorn in the side of LGBT. Again, this is my personal feeling, which may or may not reflect the way things are, but when I see the word “ALL,” hope springs eternal...

At best, my “brand” of crossdressing is, at the very least, noteworthy, an individualistic exercise of the tallest order. As such, I may not need support from the “community” per se, but it’s good to know that there are others like me who may wish to discuss this odd, yet natural, compulsion. Don’t get me wrong – I respect anyone who is transgender, but many of us JUST crossdress, M to F, and we have a good time doing so. All in all, you should take time to consider that...

Don't you think "all" should mean ALL? :idontknow:

Now then, I also feel that there's too much talk of "my brand of crossdressing". This post, had it been limited purely to grievances, whether real or perceived, and including no weasel words, would have started an extremely constructive argument and given everyone pause to consider.

Instead, it was full of passive-aggressive language, which, once the weasel words are removed, isn't so bad, even if it's still hard to read. As it stands, I'd give it a passing C. To upgrade it to an A paper, the two ideas need to be separated and the post should be focused purely on one or the other, e.g. are part-timer CDers accepted here, or are part-timer CDers transgender and/or worthy of note. Pick one and stick with it. Mixing the two waters down the message so much that it's still difficult to read.

[Tess]

I always enjoy Freddy's thought provoking posts and generally agree with them, but Veronica...BRAVO... your post suggests a very uncomfortable truth which fuels much of the blow back that posts like Freddy's generate.

[Frédérique]

I thought the purpose of this site was to provide support, share experiences and help us explore ourselves. Certainly we will disagree -- the old Mark Twain adage about differences of opinion making a horse race -- but we need to respect each other, as well as ourselves. Freddy, I for one have missed your musings -- even if they sometimes take me a bit too much time to digest!

Thanks, Claire – I missed your supportive (and reasonable) comments as I was navigating the negative stuff earlier today! You remind me of something my good friend told me recently, namely that a lot of people don’t want to discuss things – it involves using your brain, and perhaps thinking about other viewpoints you were previously unaware of. When the topic is mildly controversial to some individuals, even though discussion is the desired goal, it’s much easier to spew forth the unsolicited personal attacks that have been brewing over time. Believe me, I’m not trying to CHANGE how things are around here, I’m just interested in talking about it. If someone comes away from this “argument” with a better understanding of the membership, then the discussion, however truncated or tainted it may be, will have been successful...


The fact that some commenters refer to your post with words such as "moan", "whining", "drama queen" and so on (expletives deleted) proves your point that you are discounted as being a real or true or legitimate or whatever crossdresser (or transgender if you prefer) by those people, unless you subscribe to their thinking that this is all about confusion or conflict between our "gender" and our genetic sex.

I’ve accepted my “level” of crossdressing, so I don’t mind the negative epithets hurled in my general direction. I have no aspirations beyond my own personal level of comfort, but that doesn’t mean my CD “voice” is illegitimate...

Here’s a quote from the late, great Christopher Hitchens, describing a certain group of people:

“Completely humorless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offense, and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. That last triptych of vices is intimately connected.”

Would anyone like to hear about my new panties? No? :idontknow:

[Leona]

Interestingly enough, Frederich, I find your Hitchens quote quite apt.

Therefore, I must know. Why have you not actually responded to what I've said with anything but "humorless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offense, and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred."

Maybe you could prove your point by actually answering my points with some semblance of logic.

[CarolynO]

Seems sad to me - sexuality is as much a part of who we are as anything else and as authentic a reason to CD as gender dysphoria or stress or whatever. But, that's another thread again and I'm hoping Zylia will start one soon :)
I totally agree with that.It always struck me as strange that many CD'ers downplay or deny the sexual aspect of it.I'm sure most of us started out that way.Why else in the world would a young boy dress up for any other reason than being sexually turned on or gender dysphoric?Both are equally relevant reasons.
Then again maybe the reason many downplay the fetish aspect is that it seems narcissistic/autogynephilic in nature.

[DebbieL]

Frederique,

Thank you for bringing this up. One of the things that I really love about you and your contributions is that you really do contribute, you get people thinking, and you get people looking at different perspectives.

Not all cross-dressers are transsexuals, but the term transgender was deliberately defined and promoted to be an all-inclusive term.for the entire spectrum, ranging from the occasional fetish dresser who wears only one or two items, to the transsexual who wants to undergo chemical and surgical alterations to live their entire life in their chosen gender. Harry Benjamin modeled his gender identity spectrum to be similar to Kinsey's sexual preference spectrum. There are people in this group who only want to wear panties, or only want to wear stockings or pantyhose. This might be a 1 or 2 on Benjamin's scale.

There are many cross-dressers who struggle with their own self-identification. There are many of us who tried to be cross-dressers, only wanting to dress up at home, even though we had wanted to be girls since - well, since we found out we WEREN'T girls and would never BE girls. When they told us we couldn't be girls, for whatever reasons, we often started cross-dressing in secret, and often only wore what we could hide effectively.

There ARE different issues that different types people in the transgender scale have to deal with. A fetish dresser might only have to worry about where to hide his stash, and struggles to even go to the store and buy a pair of underwear. An at-home cross-dresser often struggles with what to do if his wife discovers his stash. A traveling cross-dresser my struggle with how to be able to go out in public without getting harassed.

The irony is that most of us, even the hard core transsexuals, have been through each of these phases at some point in our lives. Seeing the posts of more closeted members helps us to remember those days, and helps us to realize how far we have come. At the same time, we have survived, and we have seen how we can benefit from being honest with those who are most important to us. There are also dimensions which do not apply to cross-dressers and fetish dressers. They don't feel like they are girls trapped in a boy's body, they just like doing a few "girly" things. They don't feel like every person who knows them as male doesn't know them at all. They don't feel that every breath taken posing as a male is a lie. This is a really GOOD THING! It's also something that transsexuals need to have compassion for.

Often, we have to really pay attention to different posters. Sometimes the original poster is struggling with transsexuality issues, while some of the respondents are struggling with cross-dressing issues. A man who feels like he will die if he can't dress, and can't imagine living without his wife, and realizes that he is likely to lose his wife because he feels that he MUST cross-dress is showing the symptoms of a transsexual struggling with his true self. Another respondent to the same thread may be struggling with discussing his dressing with his wife, but would be able to limit his cross-dressing to specific items, private, bedroom-only, or home.alone mode. The advice to the first poster may not be a fit for the second poster.

I've been fortunate enough to have seen a number of therapists, I've been in 12 step programs for 35 years and have 33 years of continuous clean time and sobriety. I've sponsored hundreds, grand sponsored thousands, and heard the stories and experiences of around a hundred thousand addicts and alcoholics, who share some of their most intimate struggles. Many of my sponsees were transgendered as well.

I've also been to many transgender support groups, and have interacted with other transgendered people (I never forget we are PEOPLE first) via usenet in the 1980s, and the various internet media in the 1990s and beyond.

[paddy]

Frédérique,

I enjoyed this post and the responses. It has caused quite a "Crossdressing Maillard reaction".

[Jacqueline Winona]

Freddy, I understand and respect your post and point of you, in fact I agree with you that we are not all transgendered (or "transgender. I view the terms interchangeably, one is probably more grammatically correct but honestly, who cares?) I wish you would state your point a little better, and not use the tactics for which you show disdain when used against you. Having said that, you are being prejudged unfortunately, and that's not cool. I do hope you stay around and continue to make your point.

[Georgina]

I consider myself a MTM crossdresser. I wear a dress and maybe make up but I don't feel feminine, and I am still male.

[Lynn Marie]

This was really weird. Just before seeing your post, I was wondering where you've been and was thinking about looking at your profile and finding your last post! Glad you're back. I really appreciate your extraordinarily well written and well thought out posts. Seems to me that everyone here wants to be noticed and appreciated. Therefore we're all sort of campaigning for our form of crossdressing. Kind of like guys always trying to outdo each other.

[Krististeph]

Frederique, you speak for a lot of us, I too dress 'half way' most of the time- but I'm different in that i wish I had the time and spirit to dress up 'more fully' (gee, all those English classes paid off, eh?) and/or for longer and more public.

But that's just my outer appearance- there is so much going on inside one's mind about crossdressing- and again, it's not a simple 0-100% range. Personally, I love exploring how i can or might think of doing and approaching something as if I were fully dressed- no restrictions or social fears (I know, many of these fears are of my own imagination) I really envy the gay friends I have who are open and out- and can be as silly or serious as they want with no fear...

This is very much though a personal or intimate part of CD/TG, and like many relationships (i.e. boy-girl dating) this is one of the more guarded things- it's a big step to open up your inner feelings to another, much less a huge honking bunch of other CD/TGs of whom we are decidly not in a more intimate relationship. This is a great site to open up your feelings to- but again- there are stages- and it's harder to open up fully. You have guts, milady.

I too get frustrated when I post in an area i thought was correct, only to have it moved or deleted- obviously i misread the moderators' intentions of the definition, which I do try to understand. I remember a post that was moved for off topic, then that forum moderator said 'off-topic' and deleted it. But heck, no matter. The lessons I've learned from that is that there is an undetermined number of ways topics can be interpreted. Thinking about it, one really cannot expect moderators to be perfectly consistent and capable of understanding so many different ways of thinking. Heck, you get what you pay for, and in this case we don't need to pay anything, so from that perspective we are getting quite a bit of a bargain.

Then there is the fact that the moderators do a good job of keeping the posts organized, lest it digress into a mish-mash of threads. Perhaps they are too aggressive in pruning the posts, but possibly better than the converse of not pruning.

Perhaps the moderators could expand the definitions- and give some examples of okay & not okay thread topics of the forums: and consider the difference of the words "ALL" & "ONLY", with "ONLY" being an exclusionary term rather than "ALL" as inclusive term.

[MysticLady]

Well..................You all know how them Cornhuskers are, they want all the attention. That's until a Longhorn pokes them in the rump and sends them flying back into the cornfield:heehee:. :D

IooIo Go Horns.............YAY

BTW Freddy, What color are your panties? Are they Lacey?:heehee:

[Claire Cook]

Now then, I also feel that there's too much talk of "my brand of crossdressing". This post, had it been limited purely to grievances, whether real or perceived, and including no weasel words, would have started an extremely constructive argument and given everyone pause to consider.

Instead, it was full of passive-aggressive language, which, once the weasel words are removed, isn't so bad, even if it's still hard to read. As it stands, I'd give it a passing C. To upgrade it to an A paper, the two ideas need to be separated and the post should be focused purely on one or the other, e.g. are part-timer CDers accepted here, or are part-timer CDers transgender and/or worthy of note. Pick one and stick with it. Mixing the two waters down the message so much that it's still difficult to read.

Leona,

Thanks for the clarification. I have not followed the apparently lengthy discussions between Freddy and others about the meaning of TG and other questions, and my post probably reflected this. As to the use of language and writing styles, I'm happy to let others make their own conclusions about that (I too have graded more than my share of papers...), and as you say, perhaps her wording has clouded the issue. I think my point about tolerance related to Freddy's opening thought -- that there should be room here for all shades of the CD / TG spectrum, and we should all respect that.

[Amanda M]

Claire, as far as I can see, there is plenty room for all shades of pink on this forum. The problems seems to arise when there are quasi-intellectual attempts to grind axes. It has, in part been illuminating. I was most interested by the comment to the effect that this forum is privately owned and funded, and the rest of us get to use it free.
I wonder what the sub-text is there?

Much ado about labels and factional in-fighting. Sad, isn´t it to see this among a group of individuals with a common interest.

[Frédérique]

Thank you for bringing this up. One of the things that I really love about you and your contributions is that you really do contribute, you get people thinking, and you get people looking at different perspectives. Not all cross-dressers are transsexuals, but the term transgender was deliberately defined and promoted to be an all-inclusive term for the entire spectrum.

Thanks. It used to be more like this a few years ago – I think I’m the last girly boy standing… :sad:

Some people have accused me of confusing transgender with transsexual, which is an insult to my intelligence as well as my experience. It’s obvious that TG has been adopted as a blanket term, either for political expediency, or for the formation of a kind of platform – you may detect the planks of the platform in action within the confines of this thread, but I digress…

I have a good friend on this site who sought ME out when she first arrived on the scene. She was (and still is) a very feminine person who was born male. She posted all sorts of interesting thread topics about beauty, wonder, and the joys of crossdressing in MtF, exactly the same things that I liked to discuss. I used to get a lot of flack for my love of crossdressing from those members who didn’t agree with me (at all), and my good friend also fielded heaps of abuse. She would get rather discouraged, driven to tears at times, but I would encourage her to keep going. It wasn’t easy, but she learned to develop a thick skin, hold her own in discussions, and stick by her convictions…

My friend soon disappeared, only to re-appear in the TS section. She was continuing, logically, along her gradual journey from M to F. I looked in on her, and it was interesting to see that the very same people who attacked her in the MtF section now WELCOMED her, once she declared that she was not only TG, but obviously TS as well. Meanwhile, her new buddies are still attacking me! This is an example of the unfairness I’m talking about, even though I’m barely allowed to mention it. You can see what kind of reaction my revealing observation generates, even though it should be pretty obvious to all by now…


I wish you would state your point a little better, and not use the tactics for which you show disdain when used against you. Having said that, you are being prejudged unfortunately, and that's not cool. I do hope you stay around and continue to make your point.

The thing that irks me the most is being accused of trolling. That seems like a trumped-up charge, subject to interpretation, when someone chooses to disagree with me. It seems to me that if I asked a simple question, like “What’s going on around here?” I could be accused of trolling, since I’m looking for some responses. In short, if you don’t like me, or my writing, or my general presence, you might as well call me a troll and hope it dislodges me for good. On the other hand, if you like me, or if I’m the kind of crossdresser you can relate to, the word “troll” would never cross your mind, even though I may ask the very same question. Under these circumstances, “making a point” is getting more and more difficult, and absolutely NOBODY apologizes for anything…

Sometimes I get the idea that my detractors like having me around, but I can’t prove it… :heehee:


I was wondering where you've been and was thinking about looking at your profile and finding your last post!

I went away for a while, Lynn. It was unplanned, and my return was equally unplanned. As you can tell, from the “warm” welcome I received in this thread, I didn’t go away long enough or far enough to please some people…


Therefore we're all sort of campaigning for our form of crossdressing. Kind of like guys always trying to outdo each other.

I’ll gladly “campaign” for transgender, but I would insist that the vast majority of people SMILE…


Much ado about labels and factional in-fighting. Sad, isn´t it to see this among a group of individuals with a common interest.

“Individuals with a common interest” – sounds like ALL TYPES to me, but that only looks good on paper (unfortunately)...