Finding your Femmeself

[AmyGaleRT]

Reine posed this question:

It's a good question to ask the forum members, in another thread of course: did you make your female persona, or did you discover her inside you?

... or, did you initially make her, but then she became a part of you?
This is a very intriguing question, and it does deserve a thread of its own.

For my part, I came to my belief that my soul is part female gradually, as a result of several factors. You might recall from other posts I've made that I started out primarily as a fetish type of dresser, concentrating solely on nightgowns. It was in the interval after my first wife left that I decided to take the plunge and order my first dress (actually two dresses, a pair of sheath dresses from JCPenney). When I put one on...I felt different, but not "aroused" as I might when slipping into a nightie. I felt calm and happy, as if this was somehow just right. I was smiling. I didn't know what to make of this, but it encouraged me to start concentrating more on dresses and other day clothes, as well as developing my skills with makeup and the rest of my appearance. (I wound up getting rid of those first two dresses...sheaths don't fit my figure as well as others. I have many better-fitting and prettier ones now. :) )

The arrival of my fiancee Sabrina drove these plans "underground," but didn't squelch them entirely. When she encouraged me to grow my hair out, because she liked me with long hair, I found myself agreeing...but partly because I found that it appealed to the part of me that liked dressing, too, so this fit my "hidden agenda" as well. That, I suppose, should have been another red flag that there was something in me that "clicked" with a feminine image.

Sabrina provided me with an important concept to hang my developing theory on. She believes that her soul is actually Native American; she identifies closely with them, and many of her online avatars, such as in Second Life, reflect the Native American image. (I've helped encourage her in this, getting her a dream catcher, books on Lakota and Cherokee, and even a cedar flute.) This gave me the concept that one's soul could be different from one's external being, and made me suspect that my own soul, or at least part of it, was actually female. The more I chewed it over, the more it seemed to fit.

Another piece of my feminine self-image was supplied by my mother, who revealed to me that she would have given me the names "Amy Gale" had I been born a GG. Up till then, I had been using "Jaymie" as a femme name (a variant of my middle name and the name of a girl I knew in college), but those names spoke to me. It felt like I had a right to give those names a home, that they were the true name of this part of myself. So, at that very moment, "Amy Gale" I became, and "Amy Gale" I shall remain. :)

Of course, in the mere nine months since I first came out to Sabrina, I have taken tremendous strides, which has only served to confirm my belief in this part of myself. My Amy-self has improved her presentation in many ways, and has not only ventured out into the open, but has become a woman of the world. I don't think that would be possible if I didn't have this piece of me which believes in herself so much, giving me the constant reminder, I am female, I am woman, I am Amy, I am a part of you that you cannot deny.

So...perhaps I started out trying to make a pleasing ersatz...but stumbled across hidden depths of my own self while I did so. Which surprised me at first, but is now pleasing to me. Like Tiresias incarnate, I can "cross between the poles," and experience the joys of living on both sides.

- Amy

[Zylia]

Reine's question is a response to a post I wrote, so I'm probably going to repeat a few things here. Bottom line is that I do believe that I made my female persona rather than finding it inside me. The way it's formulated, it actually sounds more like a little mind game, but it goes back to the fundamental question of why we're doing this: if it's a result of believing your gender assigned at birth isn't 100% correct or if it's grounded in fetishism. I do believe it's the latter in my case and it really wouldn't surprise me if I found out that it's the case for the majority of cross-dressers here. I also said I suspect that some cross-dressers would rather go for the former than acknowledging the latter, but that's just me guessing.

I never underestimate the power of our mind and imagination in particular, or the effect that our most deepest sex drives have on the decisions we make in every day life. Saying something is a result of fetishism may make it sound like it's not 'real', but I don't agree with that. Sex is not just a pastime activity.

I also don't rule out that once you create your persona, it may become so large or you grow so comfortable using it, it actually starts to 'replace' you or you just want to live in it all day. We shouldn't pretend we're the only ones who create 'personas' for the outside world to see, the main difference is that ours have the other gender.

(I have to add that I do feel like some CD's (maybe not necessarily on this forum) are doing women a disservice by pretending they're in any way feminine beyond their appearance and a few mannerisms.) (N.B.: this is the least interesting part of my comment in my opinion, and actually offtopic. If you feel the need to single out this paragraph rather than discussing the overall gist of my comment I'd rather start a new thread about it)

A huge disclaimer: I do not know what 'real' transgenders actually feel, these are just my ideas based on my experience and observations as someone with only a small background in social sciences. I may be 100% wrong about everything.

[suzy1]

I would like to start by saying what an intelligent and discerning post that is from you Zylia. Very impressive!

My story is one of crossdressing and then slowly changing over a lot of time to become what I am today which is a very feminine person. I sometimes say that Suzy is the real me, because she is.
So let’s take this one step further [and its pure speculation] the mind is a powerful thing as you say Zylia but could our very brain cells modify or alter in some way over time because of our life style, our wishes, and our needs and so on.
So we start out with a need to crossdress and then some of us repress it because we feel it’s wrong and never go down the path to transgender/transsexualism and some of us [me] love the woman in us and imperceptibly change over the years?

One thing I do know, there is no going back, at least not for me. Yippy!

[Angela Campbell]

I have to add that I do feel like some CD's (maybe not necessarily on this forum) are doing women a disservice by pretending they're in any way feminine beyond their appearance and a few mannerisms.

A huge disclaimer: I do not know what 'real' transgenders actually feel, these are just my ideas based on my experience and observations as someone with only a small background in social sciences. I may be 100% wrong about everything.

I think most of the CD's I know mean no insult to women and in fact love them so much they emulate them, as the highest form of compliment.

[jenni_xx]

I think most of the CD's I know mean no insult to women and in fact love them so much they emulate them, as the highest form of compliment.

I would certainly agree with this. Any intent to insult most certainly is not there. But in emulating women, it can be the case that a caricature of femininity is displayed. A man behaving feminine being labelled effeminate - which often includes exaggerated gestures/posture/presentation - is a classic example of this.

I do think that Zylia raises a great point. In fact I think Zylia's post overall is superb. It could well be the case that more cd's than would care to admit, did have a "grounding" in fetishism, in sexual stimulation, but many would deny this because it reduces their cding, and perhaps more importantly their standing within the transgender community, to a debased level. For me, the first time I ever encountered anything close to cding was when I was around 5-6 years old. My sister and two female cousins kept on trying to dress me up - little things like putting earrings on me. Telling me to close me eyes while they "had a laugh" at my expense. Something awoke in me that day - a feeling that was incredibly intense, stimulating, and enjoyable. Akin to very excitable butterflies raging around my stomach. Too young for it to be sexual obviously. After that and right up to 11, 12, 13 years old (when puberty reared it's head), my experiences of cding were very few and far between. A sneak into my mother's wardrobe just to feel a fur coat or a skirt, or a silk blouse, although never actually putting anything on. That eventually did happen around the age of puberty, and my very first sexual experience (on my own) occurred while wearing feminine clothing.

Which leads me to answer ReineD's question. It was a discovery initially. It became an awareness of what I liked, but it was repressed because it confused me greatly. As if puberty itself isn't confusing enough. All along it felt like something that I didn't, or couldn't control. Something I liked and wanted to embrace, but felt wrong in doing so. It wasn't until my later teens that I began to embrace it further - I was around 18, 19 years old when I first bought female clothes. I didn't "make" my female persona, to this day I don't really have a female persona. I simply don't regard it that way. It is just a part of who I am, a part of the collective whole so to speak. It's actually quite difficult to put it into words in all honesty.

[Claire Cook]

My story is one of crossdressing and then slowly changing over a lot of time to become what I am today which is a very feminine person. I sometimes say that Suzy is the real me, because she is.

So we start out with a need to crossdress and then some of us repress it because we feel it’s wrong and never go down the path to transgender/transsexualism and some of us [me] love the woman in us and imperceptibly change over the years?


Suzy, our personalities gradually develop over time and I very much feel the way you do. Claire has always been part of me, sometimes surfacing, usually in the past being kept hidden in a dark corner. No longer! I embrace and nurture that side of me, and hopefully will be able to make the Ying and Yang a complete whole.

[stephNE]

I think most of the CD's I know mean no insult to women and in fact love them so much they emulate them, as the highest form of compliment.
I agree with this too. I feel so much respect, love and admiration for women that I want to be one too. But CDing isn't just applied from the outside, I certainly have inner feelings of the woman that wants to get out and be expressed, at least part of the time. But as I spend more and more and more time en femme, I have noticed male mannerisms that I try to suppress.

[Jazzmine]

You may be right about the fetishness Zylia but this has been explored in depth with the result being "no one factor seems to be more important than any others" when it comes to CDng.
It would be fair to say that CDng around puberty focuses on the genitals as you awaken from innocence. But that shouldn't be mistakenly used to classify it as a fetish. I mean you are going to explore your sexual needs in one way or another at that time, you are a force of nature!
I felt at that time bitterly disappointed I was not developing as a girl as that is what I secretly desired. Yes I had fetishes and fantasies but at the same time I had this feeling of dread my body was taking me in the wrong direction. And I was very masculine, sporty, and loved girls (still do, more than ever). Yet I wanted to be that which I wanted to have sex with.
That's very confusing for young brains and does distort your behaviour. Fetishes being one result among many.
So I think you may be right for some people, and that's ok. If you go on to develop feminine urges from there then it is valid for you and who can argue with it.
But for others, such as me, then CDng is more than a fetish, it is a way of life that feels driven from your very being. It is also fun and prone to fetish outbursts too. But then every woman has fantasies, doesn't she?!

[jennyscott]

A great thread indeed. I have frequently asked myself, "self, how did you get here", with no obvious answer. AmyGale and Zylia, thanks for getting this thread some traction. More therapist $$ saved for more than a few I think. :D


I do think that Zylia raises a great point. ... It could well be the case that more cd's than would care to admit, did have a "grounding" in fetishism, in sexual stimulation, but many would deny this because it reduces their cding, and perhaps more importantly their standing within the transgender community, to a debased level. For me, the first time I ever encountered anything close to cding was when I was around 5-6 years old. My sister and two female cousins kept on trying to dress me up - little things like putting earrings on me. wearing feminine clothing.

Initially I would have to admit fetishism got me started onto the CD path I am wrapped into now. But Jenni_XX's post reminded me that my thoughts and preferences for things feminine originated long before puberty. Thus, it sems to be a little more complicated than that. I agree my post_puberty fetishism served as a driving force into what perhaps has evolved into something more, an identity.


Which leads me to answer ReineD's question. It was a discovery initially. It became an awareness of what I liked, but it was repressed because it confused me greatly. As if puberty itself isn't confusing enough. All along it felt like something that I didn't, or couldn't control. Something I liked and wanted to embrace, but felt wrong in doing so.

It's still too early to say but I feel my identity may have been created. The reasons are more complex than I want to delve before my second cup of coffee.

[Zylia]

I wouldn't classify cross-dressing purely as a fetish, I do believe there are more than a few reasons to cross-dress, but at the base level there are probably only a few can really 'kickstart' it so to speak. Gender dysphoria and transvestic fetishism (sorry if I offend anyone by using that word) are two valid examples and I wouldn't rule out a combination of those or the existence of more 'kickstarters', but the things that set something in motion are usually more simple than complicated, especially when it's something that has been repeated over and over. There are thousands if not millions of cross-dressers and probably millions of other people with more than a passing interest in it. The idea that the majority of us started cross-dressing as a result of all kinds of little factors that pushed us in a certain direction seems highly unlikely to me.

That's not to say that all cross-dressers are like that, and not all cross-dressers will forever be motivated by sexual arousal if that ever was the case. I can take myself as an example, presenting myself as a 'passable' woman has become a goal itself and while I enjoy dressing up, it doesn't 'excite' me any more than seeing a well-dressed and good-looking woman in the streets.

Coming to terms with cross-dressing for some of us is similar to coming to terms with us being sexual creatures. Sexuality is not a sidetrack you ride every time you're in the mood, it's actually one of the engines that drives us.

[Chardonnay Merlot]

At first it was just the raw, sensory feelings. If you will, fetish, at least for those first tentative steps, especially as a young boy truly not understanding what was going on...and again, almost decades later,after ignoring what was really there and doing everything not to broach it at all.

But gaining understanding prospective led me to find that both answers are right in different phases. The fetish part of it all was the beginning of the investigation. It could be the end as well if one chooses to stay in that place. I delved further and learned that she has always been there, she's a part of me and I choose how I wish to express it. The cool part this has been has been seeing how much deviation from one side to the other side naturally occurs. Subtle deviations in how I think, act and function in one mode as opposed to the other, and how the two sides blend in. For me, what has happened in term of being open with my crossdressing has helped me learn who I am as a person and truly be comfortable in who I am as a person.

Within time the feelings of presenting female went from "this feels really good" to something greater... "this is me!", and I have those same thoughts as feelings regardless of which gender i'm presenting. Right now, the female side is getting a greater level of attention because she's been ignored for a long time, but I'm learning and striking that balance between the sides. And working on that balance has been an education in learning about me and seeing the growth and the changes I've gone through. This persona, this "me" is constantly under construction. :)

[Kate Simmons]

I both found the femme feelings within myself, made them my own by choice and developed my feminine persona just like I developed my male persona over the years. They are separate from one another yet work in concert. In Freddy's thread, "All or nothing", I made the statement that i really don't need to be TG to enjoy being myself but that by no means "pigeonholes" me in one place or another. Being free to be myself means exactly that and I don't need any label per se to be myself as I know who I am and that is what matters the most.People can call me who or what they want but their opinion doesn't change who I am. :)

[TheMissus]

Finally, an interesting topic :)

Not sure what weight a GG has here but thought I'd throw in a couple of things from an outside perspective. First, it's a little known psychological fact (helps here to have a shrink for a close friend, lol) that nearly all paraphilia and fetish can be traced back to early childhood well before sexual knowledge or interest. Second, men are the most likely to form a fetish or paraphilia.

Has anyone here ever read of men who are Adult Babies? You'd be blown away at the similarities of their stories to what I read here - the confusion about these strange urges they have, vague memories from childhood, sexual experimentation during puberty, and as time passes, a feeling that maybe they ARE infants inside. As a GG I'm thinking "hang on, replace AB with CD and you've got the same issue!" Yet I bet most here would say "no way - they're all just weird fetishists - they're not like me at all!"

I'm not suggesting this is the case for anyone here or that this is how it is. But for some here, maybe a female identity did arise with a sexual fetish and maybe time and repetition has all but erased this reality?

Just food for thought :)

[Beverley Sims]

Missus,
I believe you have widened the discussion here you have brought up another lifestyle? for want of a better term and yes these people have similar beliefs to CD'ers.
My personna is all embracing that nothing fazes me any more.
I just accept the weird, whatever it is, as another normal and deal with it that way.

[jenni_xx]

Finally, an interesting topic :)

Not sure what weight a GG has here but thought I'd throw in a couple of things from an outside perspective. First, it's a little known psychological fact (helps here to have a shrink for a close friend, lol) that nearly all paraphilia and fetish can be traced back to early childhood well before sexual knowledge or interest. Second, men are the most likely to form a fetish or paraphilia.

Has anyone here ever read of men who are Adult Babies? You'd be blown away at the similarities of their stories to what I read here - the confusion about these strange urges they have, vague memories from childhood, sexual experimentation during puberty, and as time passes, a feeling that maybe they ARE infants inside. As a GG I'm thinking "hang on, replace AB with CD and you've got the same issue!" Yet I bet most here would say "no way - they're all just weird fetishists - they're not like me at all!"

You could say the same about any fetish. Which I presume is your point really. When it comes to fetishes, there is often a negative stigma attached to them, some more so than others. People may find it easier to accept someone who has a foot fetish than they would someone who is a necrophile. There are degrees to this, often relating to social acceptance/understanding, which can determine how you react to fetishes, but often it is the case that reaction to certain types of fetish are base reactions, stemming from an innate dislike/disgust.

Your comment "they're all just weird fetishists" begs the question. Naming the positing of the word weird. Is it weird BECAUSE it's a fetish, or is it simply a weird fetish? I personally would describe many fetishes as weird. But not all. I would describe many fetishes as simply not my cup of tea, but I can and do remain indifferent to their existence.

But I do think the problem in regards to CD, and the many various descriptions that fall under the "trans" label, is that it can't simply be defined as and only as a fetish. To do so is far too limiting, and will be, for many, simply insulting.


I'm not suggesting this is the case for anyone here or that this is how it is. But for some here, maybe a female identity did arise with a sexual fetish and maybe time and repetition has all but erased this reality?

Maybe. Or maybe it's a case of correlation not implying causation. We all undertake a journey when we are younger, learning both about the world around us and ourselves and our place within it. It could often be the case that we find out about our feminine side at a similar time to when we are developing sexually. And thus maybe it's the case that for certain CD's, they correlate the two mistakenly. So instead of it being a case of time and repetition erasing "this reality", maybe it is rather the case t hat time and repetition has erased a misconception.

[Amanda M]

For me, it has been a gradual, evolutionary process - as indeed has the development and change of other personae of which I am aware. Note persona, not personality!

As our life experiences change, so they gently mould us. Sometimes imperceptibly but over time, irrevocably.

Fritz Perls, the founder of Gestalt psychology put it this way:

I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped. (Fritz Perls, 1969)

Sentiments with which I fully agree, and which in our transgender/CD context say to me " I don´t need your label to know you, or to form opinions about you. I am happy for you to be what you are, and trust you will afford me the same grace."

When I started to crossdress, many years ago, and with many a hiatus, I did not know where my journey will take me. Thank goodness, I still don´t. I am happy to evolve.

[MysticLady]

One thing I do know, there is no going back, at least not for me. Yippy!

I'm with you on this one. I'm not going back, period.



So...perhaps I started out trying to make a pleasing ersatz...but stumbled across hidden depths of my own self while I did so. Which surprised me at first, but is now pleasing to me. Like Tiresias incarnate, I can "cross between the poles," and experience the joys of living on both sides.

- Amy

Good Job Amy. Oh, did I ever tell you that your just so cute.:hugs:


I agree with this too. I feel so much respect, love and admiration for women that I want to be one too.

Yes, I like them too. Emotions and all, sometimes.


You may be right about the fetishness Zylia but this has been explored in depth with the result being "no one factor seems to be more important than any others" when it comes to CDng.


Jazzmine, I believe there are stages too this just like anything else. It starts off giving you a boner and then that fades and you'll realize it's for something totally different. Just like women. You're all excited and then it wears off and it's life. The part of being bound really slaps the crap out of some of us.


A great thread indeed. I have frequently asked myself, "self, how did you get here", with no obvious answer. AmyGale and Zylia, thanks for getting this thread some traction. More therapist $$ saved for more than a few I think. :D

I think this forum is a Therapists' worse nightmare, regarding income.:eek:



The reasons are more complex than I want to delve before my second cup of coffee.

I agree, I usually kill 3 large cups in my morning visits:D.



Has anyone here ever read of men who are Adult Babies? You'd be blown away at the similarities of their stories to what I read here - the confusion about these strange urges they have, vague memories from childhood, sexual experimentation during puberty, and as time passes, a feeling that maybe they ARE infants inside.

Hi Mrs., This is very interesting. Probably the reason why I am how I am. Growing up, my mother was constantly at my fathers service. This was not because dad expected it or demanded it, just because my mother did it because she wanted too. Sometimes, I would get irritated w/ dad cause he just sat there and "requested" things, from me, also. Now, I walk in his shoes. Good ol Dad. :)

[MatildaJ.]

What confuses me about the threads discussing how crossdressing/trangendered men figured it out is all the emphasis on clothing and sometimes makeup. I guess that's because at that young age, that's how boys see girls/women: mostly different due to clothes, body shape & makeup.

What I rarely see are people describing how they use to sneak off to the library to read "girl" books, or how they used to imagine themselves as the main female character in other books, or how they used to love to nurture animals? How many of you have cats, now? Why don't I see threads recommending different romance novels that you think others would enjoy?

I'm new here, so apologies if my questions are offensive. Please be gentle in correcting me...

[MysticLady]

What I rarely see are people describing how they use to sneak off to the library to read "girl" books, or how they used to imagine themselves as the main female character in other books, or how they used to love to nurture animals?...

You know Ms Jess, I actually am more loving too animals now. When I was young, I was rather mean, I'm embarrassed too say. Now, I see them as creatures God has given us to enjoy.


How many of you have cats, now?...

Ms Jess, I will not lie too you. I despise cats for some reason or another.


Why don't I see threads recommending different romance novels that you think others would enjoy? ...

I recommend.......Hmmm......Let's see.......How about a movie? Let's see.....how about......uhhh............Predator?:heehee:




I'm new here, so apologies if my questions are offensive. Please be gentle in correcting me...

I really appreciate you being here, never mind the small stuff and being offensive. I've realized that "some" are just too easily offended sometimes and need to tune in too life. :D

[Zylia]

That's a very interesting question JessM. The easy answer and the one you're probably expecting is that (latent) cross-dressers are generally not interested in being actual women and thus not really interested in doing 'girl things', but there's a deeper issue below that concerning gender and gender preferences as a social construct. Do girls like "girl books" because they are a girl and like the books or because we tell them the books are girl books and they should read them? Are we imprinting girl toddlers with the idea that they should like horses, princesses and the color pink or do they have genes for that? There are plenty of feminists who would love to see the whole gender marketing go away because it only teaches and confirms gender inequality. I feel like this is way outside the scope of this thread, but a really interesting topic nonetheless, certainly if cross-dressing comes into play.

And I live by myself and I have two cats.

[suchacutie]

We found Tina when I was 55. The discovery was intensely surprising. We had no idea how it would play out but it was clear that we needed to help it play out. In fact we both found it fascinating to watch it happen. My wife asked both of my gendered selves all manner of insightful questions and we both asked her questions as well about her experiences growing up living as a girl.

We've all learned a lot and continue to do so. At the same time Tina progresses as she continues to realize who she is.

[MatildaJ.]

Zylia,
I definitely lean towards thinking most of it is culturally constructed; in other times pink & horses have been for boys. But what I'm intrigued by is why the people on this forum talk about their childhood memories of latching on to one aspect which was gendered female (outward appearance) and not other aspects which our society says are equally gendered female (such as love for animals, cooking, romantic movies, and girly books, whether Anne of Green Gables or a bodice ripper). Why is the activity labeled "crossdressing," when clothes are such a small part of the female experience? I would love to see more people in this group trying to break new ground about what's socially acceptable in between the two genders, just as women who wore pants in public did, in the early 20th century.

[daviolin]

Well this is my take on the subject. I think Daviolin is the twin sister I would of had, had she been born separate from me. You may laugh at my observation. But I think its true. There is another person inside of my head. I don't think it is as far fetched as you all think. The cool part about it, is my wife thinks it's true also. And that's good enough for me. Daviolin

[Zylia]

@JessM. Cross-dressing is a weird label because for a majority it's about more than just dressing, but in its purest form it's still all about emulating the outward appearance, not so much about emulating all the other things that make femininity. People used to latch onto that aspect because that's what 'transvestic fetishist'-driven cross-dressing, which is what a lot of of us have experienced in our youth, mostly is. Some do go further than that (at later age), developing their persona and delving deeper into 'transgender' area, but I think a lot of us are or at least were content with just looking the part every now and then.

[MysticLady]

And that's good enough for me. Daviolin

And what's good enough for you, is good enough for me, Ms Daviolin:hugs:

[Emogene]

The term CD is a convenient label. Regardless of the label, we or society or the psychiatric community chooses to give us, I am and remain in part Emo!

For me, I suddenly became aware of Emo at 65 (Actually my wife told me about her, I'm not much given to introspection). In retrospect, she was always there but not at all acknowledged.

What is Emo? Softer, gentler, kinder, more thoughtful and given to empathy, et al. Oh, and she has much better taste in clothing and much more style. :)

I like her, she makes me a much better husband and father and grandfather.

So all the philosophical questions and all the psycho babble of the professionals aside, we remain! We are what we are!

Relax and have joy in your gift!

[kimdl93]

This really boils down to the old 'nature vs nurture' debate. To date, there are only some tantalizing bits of evidence suggesting that the origins of transgenderism may be genetic or related to hormonal conditions in the womb.

At the same time, as Forrest Gump said, maybe it's both. we may be predisposed towards certain behaviors, but the predetermine factors may still be influenced by life experience.

And positive reinforcement in any number of feelings may shape us by inclining us towards exploring farther into the reaches of CDing.

One thing that bothers me about such discussion is the tendency of people to substitute transgender for transsexual. The two terms often get confused. Transgenderism is a much broader term meant to encompass all manifestations of gender bending. Yes, the term quite properly includes the casual, fetish dresser, regardless of their motivations. Transexual is a far narrower term relating to individuals whose birth gender and gender identification don't match.

[Leona]

I'm a more masculine kind of girl. I played with barbies and transformers both. :)

I'd like to enter the fetish conversation with this minor technicality: medically, the word fetish refers to something that dominates your life to a point where you become dysfunctional. In popular terms, the word fetish merely means a strong liking for something. So, my wife likes to be spanked, but she doesn't spend much, if any, time thinking about it, and definitely hasn't led to her becoming dysfunctional. Medically, she does not have a spanking fetish. Popularly, she does.

In talking about finding your femme self, I'd like to ask at what point did you become separated from her?

You see, there is also a biological basis for being a transgender person. This has mostly been studied in the context of transsexuals, but when you compare gender and sex, things really get complicated. There's an entire part of the population (as we've sorta talked about before) that has either an ambiguous sex, characteristics from both sexes, only partial development of characteristics from one... The label for that is "intersex", of course. For transsexuals, a MTF woman really does have a female brain. In the womb, the hormones that triggered growth of female characteristics were present, and so for the brain (and sometimes other parts of their bodies), it developed as a female part. This is something proven to happen in the womb. Logically, considering how complicated sex can be, it makes perfect sense that if someone can be born male with a female brain, perhaps someone else can be born male with a mixed male and female brain. Unfortunately, this is something that has been discussed, but to my knowledge nobody's managed to get a grant to study it. I would expect research in this area to turn up that there is a biological basis for being gender fluid or bigender, and much of the rest of the range.

With that in mind, if someone were to be born in this culture with a mixed gender brain, they would be pushed and bullied into using only the part of their brain that matches their sex.

So I ask again, at what point did you abandon your femme self?

I don't know when I did, but I do firmly believe that my femme self was a part of me for my early childhood. All the stuff's there. JessM asked why more of us don't try to do "girl" things. I did them as a kid. I took a lot of crap from my friends for being interested in gardening, and playing Ring Around the Posies, and doing that hand-clapping game with chants. I could only get one girl to play that stuff with me, the other girls were creeped out by it.

I'm fairly sure I abandoned my femme self when my dad was sick (cancer). I abandoned a lot of me, and spent my tween/teen years putting myself back together. I missed a few parts.

Leona kept showing up, though. I'd see her in the mirror from time to time when I was brushing my hair (I've usually had long hair since I was 17, but I'd see her when I had a buzz cut). She'd have me walk through the women's clothing departments. She'd look at the bestseller rack of books and try to find a sexy book to read (I reasserted myself on each of them and moved to the sci-fi section). She's been here, not really trying to take over, just doing her thing. She was never really conscious because I was using the brain and didn't let her borrow it.

I finally realized she was there, and that she wasn't a separate person, and as soon as I realized that (within minutes, literally), I told my then-fiancee. At that time, or soon after that, rather, my then-fiancee pointed out that I behaved differently when I dressed than when I didn't dress. More recently, after spending a year and half assimilating this part of me, my wife points out that that difference in behavior has largely disappeared.

I don't have any evidence or proof that biology is involved, I only know that my earliest memories (and stories that I've been told that took place in the childhood amnesiac period) include a great deal of being a girl, and that that part of me was chased out for some reason right before puberty (coincidentally when my dad had his two battles with cancer, which he won both of).

[kimdl93]

Leona, I have some very specific early childhood experiences similar to yours. I was called a number of derogatory terms that related to my interest in feminine things...not just clothes but behaviors. And it was pretty much shamed and frightened out of me. I never forgot or rejected this part of me, but I learned to hide it.

I don't think all CDrs have this experience, but a significant number do. And for this group, there is good reason to,believe that we rediscover or release a part that has always been present, something we were indeed borne with. I may have shaped the expression of that inner girl, but I didn't create her.

[AmyGaleRT]

It's apparent I've hit on something here! It makes me wonder about how the percentage of CDs that become TS differs based on how they found their way there in the first place, i.e., fetish dressers vs. gender dysphorics vs. some other way. There's probably a statistically-significant difference.


What I rarely see are people describing how they use to sneak off to the library to read "girl" books, or how they used to imagine themselves as the main female character in other books, or how they used to love to nurture animals? How many of you have cats, now? Why don't I see threads recommending different romance novels that you think others would enjoy?

Hmm...I read the Little House on the Prairie series when I was younger, and I didn't have to sneak off to the library to read it, does that count? And I love cats and have had several over the course of my life, though I never believed that that was necessarily a "feminine" trait. As for romance novels...if I wanted to delve into those, Sabrina has more of them than I could shake a stick at! (She's been a big Harlequin fan, although she's cut back on that recently.) But if you want something that's kind of romance combined with science fiction, Anne McCaffrey's Crystal Singer series is very good.

- Amy

[suzy1]

Just coming back on the point of 'nature vs nurture' I was crossdressing at three years old.
I had a normal life up till then. A lovely Mum and Dad, no sisters, three brothers. Nothing whatsoever to influence my predisposition to crossdress nore my feminine side that developed as I have gone through life.


Nature or nurture? pure nature!

[MatildaJ.]

As for romance novels...if I wanted to delve into those, Sabrina has more of them than I could shake a stick at! (She's been a big Harlequin fan, although she's cut back on that recently.) But if you want something that's kind of romance combined with science fiction, Anne McCaffrey's Crystal Singer series is very good.

Thanks for the recommendation! I loved the Dragonriders of Pern series as a kid, and I'll check that out. I don't doubt that many people here did read a lot of "girly" books as kids... I'm just curious as to why books take a back seat to clothes when people remember being a kid-who-wondered-about-gender. Maybe because, as you say, girl books weren't restricted (boys could also read them), whereas girl clothes were restricted (to girls).

[Jasmyne]

But what I'm intrigued by is why the people on this forum talk about their childhood memories of latching on to one aspect which was gendered female (outward appearance) and not other aspects which our society says are equally gendered female (such as love for animals, cooking, romantic movies, and girly books, whether Anne of Green Gables or a bodice ripper). Why is the activity labeled "crossdressing," when clothes are such a small part of the female experience?


Jess, thank you for your comments and perspective. I'm fairly new here and have only shared a small bit of my story as I'm still trying to figure out who I am in regards to the CD'ing and my feminine side. However, when I was kid I would say I was definitely more interested in the female aspects of life you are referring too.

I much preferred spending time with my mother or grandmother (when I saw her) in the kitchen learning to cook and bake. I preferred the kitchen "duties" to sports and other more "boy" activities. I still prefer to spend my time in the kitchen, which my wife loves as she hates the kitchen, and I'm actually looking forward to the arrival of some clothes I've ordered so I can dress the part of the female homemaker, doing the cooking and cleaning en femme.

Zyla - Great thoughts in your posts and I appreciate your perspective, and the questions you pose. I'd definitely agree with you as it definitely has been a fetish for me in the past; I believe calling it a fetish helped me explain to myself what I was feeling without really fully understanding it. It also made it easier to tell my wife I enjoyed doing it, as it's definitely a Fetish in her mind.

Still not sure if I can answer the question "...did you initially make her, but then she became a part of you?", as I'm still trying to understand who I am.

[Leona]

I especially loved the Harper Hall trilogy, but I think the series jumped the shark around the Moreta time period. I loved Crystal Singer, as well, at least the first 3 books. After that, well, Anne McAffrey loves to jump sharks and beat dead horses, I've noticed. :/

[AmyGaleRT]

There were only three books in the Crystal Singer series, Leona (Crystal Singer, Killashandra, Crystal Line). That was the right amount to tell as much story as needed to be told, I think. I've read a couple of the Dragonriders of Pern series, and they kind of have a nice balance of romance to them as well, but there's so many of them I'd have a hard time catching up at this point! (I was first exposed to that universe through a collection of Hugo-winning stories, which contained "Weyr Search," aka the first part of Dragonflight.)

But now I'm getting a little far afield...:)

- Amy

[Tina B.]

I guess I would have to say I fall on the nature side of this one, I started dressing young, around six, I was dressing every chance I got, not sure just how young I was when I started, but I was heavy into it by 6, I remember at 5 playing with the neighbor girl, and her big doll house, oh I wanted one of those, but try telling that to a dad of the fifties. I've been reading about nurture Vs. nature, and sex vs. gender. Well back when I started dressing I didn't know a thing about either, I just knew it was something I was drawn to, I saw a slip hinging on the door of the bathroom, and I just had to try it on, and when I did it felt good, it felt right, it felt like the beginning of a life long love affair was just beginning. 63 years latter, I know I was right, it has been a life long love/hate relationship, but it's never seen a time I would or could give it up. It's not about sex, it's not even about gender, it's about me, and what gives me peace and happiness in this old world.

[MysticLady]

Hi Everyone

Just a quick Thought

I believe, that when you completely embrace and nurture this phenomenon, you "have found" your fem self. Just my little mind at work again.:)

[suzy1]

Hi Everyone

Just a quick Thought

I believe, that when you completely embrace and nurture this phenomenon, you "have found" your fem self. Just my little mind at work again.:)



You did say little mind?

Only joking Vitoria, good point girl.

Your friend….again,:eek:

Suzy:love:

[Darla]

Hi All. Meaning to post in this thread as I'm pretty actively searching hard for that part of me, and the surprise was that it wasn't so hard! Spottily crossdressing, repressing a lot of feelings throughout my life and just getting past the shame and embarrassment were all formative. And I always considered myself a late bloomer, a hanger-back until I personally can wrap my head around a situation. So here I am just figuring it out and not so much inventing myself as just being who a was meant to be.

Yes - there was a fair amount of fetishistic crossdressing, given way to the more mellow, centered sense of being. Throughout my childhood I felt physically not right in my body. I was the smallest and youngest in a rather aggressive and masculine group of cohorts. I sucked at sports, I loved art and all things creative. I didn't much fit in with the boys crowd, but there wasn't much room for me in the girls crowd as well. So there was a lot of inner fantasy stuff, some of which centered around not being who I was, and some of that was being a different gender.

I actually felt proud of my secret for a long while, I was special, and I'm just regaining that sense now later in life. What I do have is a special gift, and whether it was a natural affinity for me (I'm sure there are some physical and mental dispositions that have influenced me to be gender fluid) or nurture (string matriarchal family life, not a lot of positive male models growing up, being encouraged to explore areas that boys don't always do) I'm sure that this part of me existed, and that I don't have to even define it as a femme persona. Whatever part of me that lies undiscovered is perfectly capable of making up her own damn mind eventually! And it's more of a rediscovery for me, as I've always had a part of me that listed hard towards what could be defined as feminine, it's just this part of me is more grown up, despite living in the shadows for so long.

Cheers!
Darla

[Kandy Barr]

I have to question the fetishism angle as I was drawn to my moms silken under garments and hosiery at my earliest childhood memory, somewhere around three or four. This was way before I knew or felt anything sexual. There are many of us who experience these same desires at a very early age, in fact it's almost the "norm" in the post i've read in this forum. I'm led to believe that if one has these feelings at such an early age there are other factors at work.

[ReineD]

... at my earliest childhood memory, somewhere around three or four. This was way before I knew or felt anything sexual.

Actually, children begin to be sexual at about that age. Even though they are not obviously not ready for intercourse, this is when they discover that touching their private parts feels good. They also develop a curiosity about their own sexual bodies and the bodies of others.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice/for-parents/talking-about-sex/sexual-behaviour-of-children/child-sexual-behaviour_wda96782.html

http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/sexual_health/development.html

[TheMissus]

It could often be the case that we find out about our feminine side at a similar time to when we are developing sexually. And thus maybe it's the case that for certain CD's, they correlate the two mistakenly. So instead of it being a case of time and repetition erasing "this reality", maybe it is rather the case t hat time and repetition has erased a misconception.

I'm sure for some CD's that this is the case. I also suspect though, that research into the early childhood of many CD's would show an association to some event/feeling/emotion that had very little to do with a feminine side and everything to do with feminine association. Our current therapist told H and I that he couldn't count how many CD's were raised by disinterested fathers and overcompensating mothers - it was such a common theme he now just asks this question at the first session! (And yes, my H happens to be one of them!) This isn't to say ALL men who CD have disinterested fathers or the other way around. But it shows that in some cases, childhood experience can hugely influence our identity and boys are especially prone to 'sexualizing' such issues as parental rejection etc.

That said, I'd also bet there's an infinite number of reasons a boy might try on girl's clothing - curiosity, sibling jealousy or whatever - and not all will be born of trauma and rejection (someone once told me their mother dressed them in their sister's swim suit because his was left behind and he was so embarrassed he inexplicably started CDing soon after) but I'd also bet many don't come from an inbuilt 'girl inside'. As a girl I seriously don't even know what that means!

Anyway, this is just one idea and I'm certain there are MANY. It doesn't even really matter 'why' if you're happy with who you are. Heck, maybe the creation of a femme self is some form of survival instinct for men. Evolution at work?

I can't ponder this one right now as it might explode my brain, lol.

[TheMissus]

Actually, children begin to be sexual at about that age. Even though they are not obviously not ready for intercourse, this is when they discover that touching their private parts feels good. They also develop a curiosity about their own sexual bodies and the bodies of others.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice/for-parents/talking-about-sex/sexual-behaviour-of-children/child-sexual-behaviour_wda96782.html

http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/sexual_health/development.html

Yep, I've been told this too, by my shrink friend (she's very useful, lol) Hence why fetish and paraphilia are tracked back to early childhood and not, as you'd expect, puberty.

Humans are born sexual - it's just society that finds this idea icky :)

[Stacy L]

Actually, children begin to be sexual at about that age. Even though they are not obviously not ready for intercourse, this is when they discover that touching their private parts feels good. They also develop a curiosity about their own sexual bodies and the bodies of others.


http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/sexual_health/development.html

In this one link in ReineD's post http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/sexual_health/development.html


Under the section, Do We Choose Our Orientation?

I know this section is about gays ------- but suppose you put CD in place of GAY and Gender in place of Sexual Orientation.

No one fully understands exactly what determines a person's sexual orientation, but it is likely explained by a variety of biological and genetic factors. Medical experts and organizations such as the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and the American Psychological Association (APA) view sexual orientation as part of someone's nature. Being gay is also not considered a mental disorder or abnormality.
Despite myths and misconceptions, there is no evidence that being gay is caused by early childhood experiences, parenting styles, or the way someone is raised.


So they don't understand what makes a person gay, but think they understand what makes some people CD. :doh:


.

[MatildaJ.]

There are so many men who decide to embrace their femme self or whatever in middle age (or older), that it really makes me think. Here are some possible contributing factors:
1) it's way more acceptable than it used to be, because the internet lets us see how many other people are out there with similar thoughts.
2) middle-aged men are at a point in their lives where they feel stable but a bit bored with their careers & relationships and this is something new and endlessly fascinating.
3) they're more confident, and that confidence helps them care less about social expectations.
4) their testosterone levels drop, so it feels less terrible and more appealing to not be an Alpha male anymore.

But whatever the cause, I wish that people would be able to move forward and be who they want to be now, without wasting time on regrets for what is now past. I think it should be valid to say "I had a great 40 years as a guy, and now I'm hoping for 40 more as a woman," rather than having to say that you missed having all those years as a woman and got cheated out of the life you should have had. I see that attitude sometimes on this site (not on this thread though!), and it always frustrates me, even though I know that sometimes people start feeling that way because their therapists insist that people have to have "always" been a woman in order to qualify for transition now.

[Darla]

Omg. JessM - I think you're pretty much speaking to me in particular - as I read your response all those conditions apply to a fault. Pretty much all those conditions apply which puts me smack dab in the middle of a ...stereotype. Cripes.

I'm middle aged, saw this wonderful thing called the Internet and it told me all I ever wanted to know about crossdressing and more.
I'm bored with many things and you're right - this socially transgressive behaviousrs suits my need to rebel and also has a lot of shades of eyeshadow to choose from.
I do feel more confident, as well as the possibility of my looming demise, which has all conspired to give me a devil may care attitude. And with that attitude I don't think I'll care much if someone knows that I'm a man dressed as a woman.
Testosterone? Despite the obvious damage wrecked on my pate and other primary characteristics, I'm sure it's dropped precipitously. And along with that I figured that estrogen would make a good substitute.

Thanks for explicitly spelling out conditions for all the angst in my life!

I hope I don't come across as snarky, but I'm finding that I need a sense of humor more than ever in dealing with life. And there's really nothing more serious or more funny than this gender business.

Darla

[DanielleT]

I think as women, we should conduct ourselves in a ladylike manner when out in public. Nothwithstanding, that should not be construed as a constraint to our natural desires. For me, I am a lady in the truest sense, but I also a woman who is not afraid to be a woman. If anyone would like to discuss more, just drop me a note.

Dani

[Leona]

There are so many men who decide to embrace their femme self or whatever in middle age (or older), that it really makes me think. Here are some possible contributing factors:

2) middle-aged men are at a point in their lives where they feel stable but a bit bored with their careers & relationships and this is something new and endlessly fascinating.


I'm curious if anybody really has this as a primary motivation. It's one thing if it's sexual exploration, and another thing entirely if just exploring a new idea, but with so many CDs identifying in part (or in whole) as female, I guess I'm just curious.

I know that when things in my life were their absolute busiest and/or enjoyable, I still snuck off every now and then and dressed. But I'm just one person, can't challenge a data set as just one data point. :)

[TheMissus]

So they don't understand what makes a person gay, but think they understand what makes some people CD. :doh:
.

Honestly, I think CDing brings difficulties that even gay people don't suffer. Gay people might still have a long way to go in general society (such an overrated place, I might add) but within their own 'group' they're expected and accepted and most definitely preferred.

This is hardly the case for a heterosexual CD. A heterosexual CD desires heterosexual women and often the 'ordinary' family life that follows, yet heterosexual women usually have zero desire for femininity in a partner and are in fact physically repelled by it. Non-CD heterosexual men are also repelled as they feel 'fooled' into feeling attraction for another man (this is sadly a common fear of many, many men) So within his 'group' a CD is usually not accepted or preferred and quite often relationships falter when he shares this side of himself.

Given all this, is it really so hard to understand why the 'powers that be' look to understand CDing and not homosexuality? There seems great social difficulty with CDing (despite the fact half these 'powers that be' are likely donning heels themselves) and I guess this leaves them searching for...a reason? A cure?

Of course, if they read here they'd see plenty of positive stories but science doesn't always listen to its test subjects.

[Darla]

To continue the tread and the pint brought up by the Missus, I'm not going to generalize or event pretend to know the particular difficulties of being gay, but I'll second that crossdressing has a real branding problem. So many members, including myself have been trying to understand what makes us the way we are, what are the past factors that gave us a propensity to dress up as women. We're all reaching back as far as 2 or 3 years of age. As well as mashing up fetishistic dressing that's clearly sexual in nature with what we come to understand as our identity.

The gay community cast off the shackles of "what made me this way" a little while ago, at no small cost, but they did in the court of public opinion. Even if it stands at about a 51/49 split. Crossdressers in particular are still questioning it in themselves, trying to explain it to their partners etc. this isn't the best leg to stand on when you're trying to influence society's view of us. Until we can get past the explanation and rationalization of what we are, we'll always give someone a chance to "nature versus nurture" us, diagnose us, and marginalize us.

I personally am trying to come to terms with the "I just am this way" which has been a rallying cry for the gay community. I'm not going anywhere either, and I sure as heck am not going to change for anyone, so either people can learn to embrace my gift as a unique and valuable voice of diversity, or they can age out and let the next generation recognize it. Which I think a lot of them are. I'll be that parent doing whatever I can to help them do that, and maybe in the process let them understand themselves better through their lives.

Darla

[Frédérique]

Reine's question is a response to a post I wrote, so I'm probably going to repeat a few things here. Bottom line is that I do believe that I made my female persona rather than finding it inside me. The way it's formulated, it actually sounds more like a little mind game, but it goes back to the fundamental question of why we're doing this: if it's a result of believing your gender assigned at birth isn't 100% correct or if it's grounded in fetishism. I do believe it's the latter in my case and it really wouldn't surprise me if I found out that it's the case for the majority of cross-dressers here. I also said I suspect that some cross-dressers would rather go for the former than acknowledging the latter, but that's just me guessing.

If I came across good evidence for the latter, I wouldn’t have to direct myself towards the former, but I don’t expect any definitive facts to be coming my way, from either direction, anytime soon. I don’t have a female persona. I neither constructed one, nor did I let one emerge. I just dress in a certain type of clothing that begs the question “Am I really a woman,” or “Do I really wish to BE a woman?” The clothing seems to have powers, and it will derail rational thought on occasion, but, if you have a highly developed sense of self, I think you can make the case that dressing is just dressing…

Now, if you sincerely WANT to believe in a female persona, for whatever reason, you WILL construct a little temple to yourself and worship, no doubt on your knees, every chance you get. That’s nice, but we’re veering very close to spiritual matters here, changing our precious “id” into something we want to believe in, an antidote to self-loathing (perhaps). In the long run, it probably doesn’t matter what persona you adopt, since re-invention is a worthwhile activity, but, for some of us, artificial constructs are exactly that: artificial…

I didn’t “create” Frédérique. I had to pick a femme name for this site, so I did. My female persona, if you wish to call it that, is simply a collection of affirmative responses in regards to certain articles of clothing, modes of comportment, and insular thinking. This is exactly the same as my male persona, except the clothes have changed, and the clothes heighten the effect. I can be more ME whilst dressed, if that makes sense, but it is a subtle difference. Why go to all the bother of crossdressing? It’s fun, it feels good, and it makes you feel somewhat unique and different. That is important!

Rather than release something that is bottled up inside, I’m adding to what is already there via incorporation. The more colors on my internal palette, the more beautiful my self-portrait may appear to all. Some may not “believe” in their birth gender, but, if pressed, I would say that crossdressing has reinforced my belief, even though I don’t feel the need to believe in anything...
:straightface:

[Zylia]

I'm not really interested in proving anything on a case-by-case basis, everybody is unique anyway, but transvestism isn't a unique phenomenon and there are obvious patterns to recognize. Some may recognize themselves for a full 100% in some of the very factual statements made throughout this thread and some may not. You seem to have carved out a very special place for yourself here on CD.com, so I would actually be surprised if you were something archetypical.

[ReineD]

Zylia, I haven't yet addressed your comments. I do agree with you wholeheartedly. It is my impression, judging by the plethora of Trans dating sites, transporn sites, online shops selling fetish wear or outlandish 'men in sexy outfits' costumes and oversized breast forms, blogs from CDers looking to hook up, the abundance of suggestive pics on sites like Flickr and the admirers that leave comments, yahoo hook-up groups, etc ... that there is a significant number of men for whom the dressing is predominately sexual. This site prohibits graphic sexual posts and so I gather that a large number of CDers would find this place boring. Or if there are members here for whom the dressing is sexual, they have learned to not emphasize this aspect of the cross-gender expression.

But, things tend to change in middle age as testosterone ebbs and libidos lessen, and what was perhaps mostly sexual now becomes a comfortable endeavor, not unlike older couples who once had an intensely exciting sex life but who have settled into a deeply bonded, somewhat platonic and comfortable relationship. So I tend to believe that many CDers especially those who take it much further in middle age, first create the persona in order to satisfy sexual urges, which then becomes a part of them. This does not mean that this path is any less valid than someone who experiences a non-sexual need at an early age to engage in cross-gender expression.

:2c:

[MysticLady]

This is hardly the case for a heterosexual CD. A heterosexual CD desires heterosexual women and often the 'ordinary' family life that follows, yet heterosexual women usually have zero desire for femininity in a partner and are in fact physically repelled by it. Non-CD heterosexual men are also repelled as they feel 'fooled' into feeling attraction for another man (this is sadly a common fear of many, many men) So within his 'group' a CD is usually not accepted or preferred and quite often relationships falter when he shares this side of himself.


You're pretty smart Mrs. , like I've told everybody already, The brain can't compute it. The best part is, watching their faces when they just sit there with that DUH look . It's priceless.:heehee:

[mandimoore]

I LOVE to wear a set of bra and panties and imagine that I am giving a REAL man pleasure. Then I go grocery shopping, find a really beautiful woman and imagine going out on a date and then go back to place and make LOVE. Sometimes you just have to live in the moment and go with what your heart tells you!!!

[Leona]

But, things tend to change in middle age as testosterone ebbs and libidos lessen, and what was perhaps mostly sexual now becomes a comfortable endeavor, not unlike older couples who once had an intensely exciting sex life but who have settled into a deeply bonded, somewhat platonic and comfortable relationship. So I tend to believe that many CDers especially those who take it much further in middle age, first create the persona in order to satisfy sexual urges, which then becomes a part of them. This does not mean that this path is any less valid than someone who experiences a non-sexual need at an early age to engage in cross-gender expression.


I am also curious about this. Particularly for the many CDers like myself for whom the sexual phase corresponded to puberty, and before and after that it was largely a non-sexual endeavor, and yet it's late 30s/early 40s when we come into our own on it (I'm 38, in case that hasn't come up).

But it definitely seems like there's a hormonal link to be studied. I guess we need more grant money than we thought.

[Zylia]

But, things tend to change in middle age as testosterone ebbs and libidos lessen, and what was perhaps mostly sexual now becomes a comfortable endeavor, not unlike older couples who once had an intensely exciting sex life but who have settled into a deeply bonded, somewhat platonic and comfortable relationship. So I tend to believe that many CDers especially those who take it much further in middle age, first create the persona in order to satisfy sexual urges, which then becomes a part of them. This does not mean that this path is any less valid than someone who experiences a non-sexual need at an early age to engage in cross-gender expression.
Yes this is kinda what I figured out for myself as well, the 'easing in' of the female persona over the years, but I never linked it to naturally decreasing testosterone levels, thanks for that. Gender dysphoria through 'self-developed' personality disorder? Somebody should write a paper on that.

Did I already say I really appreciate the insightful and honest contributions all the "GG's" (man I hate that term) make and have made in this thread? Well now I did.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Amy, I've been dressing for over 66yrs. now it's just so much a part of me it just seams natural to me to dress.