Am I being unreasonable? (Warning: my first post and my whole backstory, long post)

[jennarac]

So I am 30 years old and have been dressing (primarily in stockings and high heels) for about 18 years.

It took me a while to figure out exactly who I was, but by my mid-20s I kind of figured it out. I'm a straight man who basically feels sexy to wear skirts and stockings and high heels, and that while unusual, and perhaps socially unacceptable, there is nothing ethically or morally wrong with that. So from that point (about 5-6 years ago) I would basically wear these kinds of things occasionally at home alone. Even in that case it wasn't all the time, maybe a couple hours once a week.

I started dating my wife 5 years ago and I did not initially tell her about this. One time after we had been dating for about a year she discovered my shoes. I explained to her what it was about and she said that she was very uncomfortable with that and asked me if I could stop doing that. At the time I was very much in love with her and figured it wasn't really a big deal to me, so I said sure.

A few months later though I started up again, just occasionally, and only when I was alone, but I didn't tell her.

This continued on in this way for about another year and a half, during which time we got married.

few months into our marriage there was one night where a bunch of things had happened and we were basically trying to come clean to each other about everything. In short we had both cheated on each other while dating before we were married, but only sexual flings and we both only wanted each other.

Perhaps because she was feeling guilty and starting on a clean slate, she asked me about my dressing and said that maybe she could try to see if she could deal with it.

So we tried it for a week. I never got fully dressed around her but I did shave my legs and wear high heels around her. I even ordered a cocktrail dress. (Prior to that the only thing I had in the way of women's clothes was cheap French maid's outfit I had worn for Halloween years earlier.) After a week she said she couldn't deal with it. She said she loved my hairy legs and that she just couldn't stand to see me in high heels.

From that point and for about a year and a half, up until about a month and a half ago, things existed in kind of a limbo state. She knew I still had my shoes but we didn't talk about it, and I would occasionally wear them when she wasn't around.

In that year and a half I had acquired some new shoes and even a pair of skinny jeans. Also in that year and a half we moved from a conservative part of Florida to Los Angeles (relevant later).

Sometimes when at home alone (which was frequent because she had gotten a job as a flight attendant) I would take pictures and post those pictures to Craigslist (in T4M) saying I was just looking to dress up. I never actually intended to meet a man for that, I just liked the attention and the compliments that were coming my way.

In the most recent 6 months my wife and I had both started working out regularly and we've both gotten much more fit. I've also noticed that when I would dress, I look much slimmer, my legs look sexier, and, even though my chest grew with muscle, it actually filled out the bust area of the dress better than before.

So I was thinking to maybe finally go out. I had dressed and worn high heels at home for a long time, but it had been a dream of mine to actually go outside, feel my feet in my favorite shoes on the street. However, I had never done makeup, have no idea how, and would be DEATHLY afraid of being an obscene object of attention and judging. However, having moved to Los Angeles, I had heard (through some of the people I chatted with on Craigslist) that West Hollywood at night was a pretty fun, accepting, safe, and relatively unassuming place that I could try.

So I made another post on Craigslist, strictly platonic this time, looking for a woman to perhaps help me dress and go out with me (no way I could do this alone). I got a response from this fantastic woman (we'll call her Bev from this point). We passed a few e-mails, and then one night after work we met up just to talk. So we talked about what I wanted, what I hoped to accomplish, and she also had some issues in her own family life (she and I are both married) that I helped her discuss, since she also didn't have anyone else to talk about them with.

Over the couple weeks Bev and I would text a lot about lots of things, most of the time not even dressing and after a very short time it was like we were old friends who'd known each other for years. So we talked about it and I decided I was going to tell my wife about my new friend, including the circumstances under which we met, because I didn't want to have to sneak and secretly hide this really wonderful new friend of mine. I didn't want my wife to think I was sneaking messages to another woman, or that I was cheating on her, and I didn't want to have to lie about Bev. So I told her, and she was not happy about the dressing. But she didn't get totally upset or irrational, but she was kind of surprised and disappointed to hear that I was still dressing up. But she left it there. She was a little bit quiet and distant for the rest of that evening, but the next day she seemed back to normal.

Then a few days later, on a Friday, she got called for a trip. I let Bev know I was free and she said, "Great, let's go out tonight!"

So she came over, she helped me do some makeup, which I did NOT have high expectations for, but came out better than expected, got dressed up, I had a couple shots before heading out, and we went out to some bars in West Hollywood, starting with Hamburger Mary's. We had a blast! We drank, we talked, we joked, we walked, we bar hopped, it was a fun night all around. I felt sexy dressed that way and wearing those shoes, but even aside from that I had found this awesome new drinking buddy (Bev is ex-military, so she can drink).

(One surprising side effect, Monday at work (dressed as a man of course), which was my first time in a public place again since dressing up and going out, I was surprised to feel that I actually felt more secure and confident in myself AS A man. Perhaps having that outlet to express my feminine side allowed me to ease some of my insecurities.)

The next day, after my wife came back, I told her about it and she was very upset. I tried to talk to her about it, tried to understand where she was coming from, what bothered her about it. I tried to explain that this was something that was a part of me, that it was an activity, a completely safe activity (safe from the perspective that it's not cheating with a person, this activity isn't a threat to our marriage and doesn't bring risk of STDs etc) that I enjoyed, but that I understand that she would be uncomfortable seeing me as anything but a man. I said, I would only do it occasoinally, perhaps once a month, and only when she was gone anyway, so that way she wouldn't have to see me, wouldn't have to help or support me, and also, when she was home, I wouldn't leave her to go do that. But despite all this she just seemed to get angrier and said "You can NEVER "talk" me over this, I will NEVER be ok with this!" It got to the point where I left to take a walk for a couple hours because I was just devastated.

She had cooled off a great deal when I got home and she essentially said briefly, "I guess this is something about you that cannot change. You can do that if you want, but don't tell me about it. I don't want to know about it. Unless I ask you, and then I need you to be totally honest. Also if I happen to find evidence that you had done it, or if I ask and you have, I will be upset. But please just give me a day or two and I'll be over it."

She was much more reasonable than she had been earlier and I felt that maybe we reached a decent state of equilibrium.

Until this weekend. I have still chatted a lot with Bev, and my wife (Jane) knows it. But she also knows I'm not trying to hide anything and I've even offered that she can read our texts if she wants. She has declined, and so I believe she trusts me with Bev from that standpoint. However, it seems that merely mentioning Bev reminds her of my dressing and that begins to upset her. Normally I wouldn't go out of my way to mention Bev, but for example two weeks ago Bev invited me to have lunch with she and her family (they have a daughter). I invited Jane to go with us, but she declined.

So, up till now, I had only dressed up and gone out one time, and that was about a month ago. Since then, I haven't even dressed at home.

Finally this last weekend, on Saturday night, Jane asked me if I could stop dressing for her. I asked her if she NEEDED me to stop, and she said yes. I hesitated. I told her, I've tried to stop in the past. Even if I did stop, I can't stop thinking about it. It's been with me even through my teenage years when I was really religious and thought God cared about such things and I thought it was morally wrong. Even through that I couldn't stop thinking about it and I wouldn't be able to stop thinking about it now. She said but you could stop doing it? I paused and then said "... I could" I asked her then did she also want me to end my friendship with Bev. She asked me if I thought being friends with Bev would make it harder for me to stop. And I said no because while that was the initial reason for our friendship, it's not even something we talk about most of the time. So Jane said, “ok, if you can stop dressing and you and Bev stop talking about that, then I would be willing to meet her and try and make friends with her." I asked her again, "do you NEED me to stop?" and she said yes. I said ok, and I immediately felt deflated. She asked "Are you mad? are you sad?" And I said I wasn't mad but I was sad.

After thinking about that and feeling down all evening, the next morning I said to her, "Why can't you accept this small thing? I'm not talking about a life-change here, I wouldn't dress in front of you, you'd never have to see it or know about it. It would be infrequent (once a month), it wouldn't change our relationship or how I feel about her. I still want to be a man, I'm not looking to have a sex change."

She immediately got upset and turned away from me and said "Fine you can do what you want but I can't say for certain if it will change how I feel about you. Also that you want to continue to do this makes me think you are gay."

Anyway, this is where I'm at now. She has been on a trip the past 3 days and I've just been stewing over this. The fact that she's asked me to stop dressing but that I haven't dressed in almost a month makes me feel like she's creating a much bigger issue in her head than what things really are.

I feel like I'm rationalizing that my request (once a month, only when she wouldn't be around anyway) isn't unreasonable, that she is being somewhat selfish. But I can't help shake the feeling that I'm the one who's being selfish by not considering her feelings.


Can anyone else shed some light or advice onto my situation? Am I being unreasonable? Because I want to know if I am. I actually suggested at one point that maybe we should see a marriage counselor, but she immediately shot that down saying "that would be a waste of money."

-Jenn

[Tamara Croft]

Hi and welcome to our forum :hugs:

I'm a GG (the wife) and I don't think once a month is unreasonable at all. The thing with cd'ing is, the wife usually doesn't have anyone to talk to about it, most have no idea how many people all over the world do this and they just think it's weird and :censor: up... been there, done that, joined a forum (this one)... took me a few years to get my head around it, but now I help run this place, so it must have worked ;)

Does she have anyone to talk to? do you want my email, she can talk to me if she wants??

Try not to stew over it, it will just make things worse, you will resent her for it and hate yourself.

Tam xx

[jennarac]

You know, that thought has occurred to me. I've got my new friend Bev who I can talk to about dressing or my home life or anything and be totally and 100% candid, but my wife doesn't. She would be far too embarrassed to talk about this kind of thing with any of her friends and family. Also she has refused, at my urging in the past, to do some research on this issue, sent her a link to a recent article talking about Oscar De La Hoya (a boxer) and crossdressing, but she wouldn't read it.

What's left is she is fairly ignorant on the issue, with no one to talk to, and only her own preconceptions swimming circles inside her head. I get that she may never be comfortable seeing me that way. Frankly I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable dressed up with her. I want to be a man for her. But I just want her to love me for who I am, and see that this is not the mountain of a problem I feel like she's created in her mind.

Edit: Tam I'd be happy to share your email with her, but I feel that more than likely she won't want any part of it. But it is appreciated.

[Leona]

She also has a husband who's been doing all the cheating behaviors except actually cheating. Consider that for a bit.

[jennarac]

I fully recognize that I have not been without fault. But i have cut out the bad behaviors, as i dont want to feel like a rotten liar anymore, and i dont want to be a cheater. But That's also why I wanted to be open with her about this and Bev. I want to be able to be completely honest with her without hiding dirty secrets of my own.

[MatildaJ.]

Hi Jenn,

I feel for you, and I know you're in a difficult situation.


She immediately got upset and turned away from me and said "Fine you can do what you want but I can't say for certain if it will change how I feel about you."

If I were you, I'd accept her grudging acceptance here. She said OK, so don't try to get her to be enthusiastic as well.


The fact that she's asked me to stop dressing but that I haven't dressed in almost a month makes me feel like she's creating a much bigger issue in her head than what things really are.

You stood up for yourself and your needs, and she gave in, right? You are in charge of your body. But conversely, she is entitled to her feelings, and you don't get to insist that she be happy about the situation.


I actually suggested at one point that maybe we should see a marriage counselor, but she immediately shot that down.

Sounds like you could use a counselor of your own. You can't force someone else to change, but you can model what adult behavior looks like, and speak positively about your experiences with your counselor, and she may come around.



What's left is she is fairly ignorant on the issue, with no one to talk to, and only her own preconceptions swimming circles inside her head. I get that she may never be comfortable seeing me that way. Frankly I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable dressed up with her. I want to be a man for her. But I just want her to love me for who I am, and see that this is not the mountain of a problem I feel like she's created in her mind.

Try to have empathy for your wife's opinion, rather than just dismissing it as based on ignorance and preconceptions. She's not totally wrong to be scared and apprehensive about these changes. Many men crossdress once in a while and never take it further, but, from what I've read, those are mostly the men who are sneaking around and scared to get caught. To me, it seems like men who go to the effort of coming clean with their wives usually want more and more.

They may not end up wanting to come out to the rest of the world (to their parents, children, & colleagues), so it may be limited to evenings at home... but if a wife accepts cross-dressing it can often take over a lot of the shared time together. You can say that won't happen, but you have to admit that your desires have shifted over time, from dressing in private to now enjoying going out dressed as a woman. So you can say that it will never be more than once a month, but you can't know for sure, and neither can she.

For another thing, for some women it's hard to maintain their image of their guy as masculine if they know that he likes to be feminine. If that's true of your wife, then maybe you're not as compatible as you thought you were. That doesn't make her a bad person. Give her time, and show her that you're still the same person, still manly in bed, still fun to hang out with. Over time, the two of you will be able to judge better about your compatibility than you can right now, when these feelings are still new to her.

[Tracii G]

Welcome Jenn
How would you feel if your wife sought out another man on CL for whatever reason?
If I were your wife I would be hurt by that first off and the lying about dressing.
My trust in you would have ended right there.
If she says she isn't hurt its my guess she is hurt deeply.

[kimdl93]

Welcome. Now to the question. Dressing once a month is not a problem. Going out once a month with a friend, not a problem. The problem is that the actions have always preceded the discussions with your wife, and because of this, she's being pushed into a more rigid position. And you have, at each step weakened her confidence in you.

Somehow, you and your wife need to reset your relationship. Instead of testing her with one thing then another, get back to basics, start at her basic issues and concerns with dressing and explain your basic needs, and preference for sharing rather than hiding. Perhaps, in baby steps, you may regain her trust and diminish her aversion to dressing.

[Leona]

Welcome Jenn
How would you feel if your wife sought out another man on CL for whatever reason?
If I were your wife I would be hurt by that first off and the lying about dressing.
My trust in you would have ended right there.
If she says she isn't hurt its my guess she is hurt deeply.

Indeed, it's not a big step to see that maybe she's asking you not to dress as her way of hurting you back? I've seen that pattern of behavior....

[Wildaboutheels]

You are escalating and "progressing" right before her eyes. I feel certain that she feels you are trying to "coerce" her to accept. Being in LOVE with someone does not mean they must accept "little things". They are obviously not little to her.

I think Bev is the dealbreaker here and I see big trouble ahead if you can't or won't sever your ties with her.

[Beverley Sims]

Jenn,
I think you have to go back to square one and build a relationship with your wife, not others.
Try and establish where you want to go and do not show any selfish attitude in this.
Sometimes back tracking works well and you can then go forward again.
I would not depend on Craigslist or even a meet up on this forum.
There is plenty of sound advice here but do you need to say a third party said something contrary to what your wife thinks.
Go slow for a while and things should slowly mend.

[heatherdress]

Finding a married woman on the sly, establishing a secret relationship, going out drinking together, continuing the relationship when it is upsetting to your wife - nothing good is going to result. If I were your wife, I think I would feel betrayed, even without the crossdressing. I think you need to shut your CD down, say good-bye to Bev, repair the damage, build your relationship with your wife - and then, openly, explore your CDing activities.

[jennarac]

Actually we have a sexually liberal marriage. On her side. She does sometimes meet men for flings, and it's fine with me. She is not quite able to handle me sleeping with other women. Which is ok with me because I only want her.

And Bev and I are strictly friends and I have been completely open with my wife about her.

[Flent]

You are leading a double life, sharing more of yourself with Bev and random internet strangers than you are with your wife. It seems like you want her permission more than her acceptance.

I was once in a similar position to that of your wife. When I’d reached the point of saying, ‘fine, whatever, do what you want,’ it meant I was emotionally disengaged to the point where I felt the relationship was not salvageable. My guess is that you are on the thinnest of thin ice - insist on counseling.

[Di]

Married GG here as well.

I think part of the problem is your wife does not understand it is a part of you and not a choice.I think you might have miss led her in this.
And I would have been crushed if my hubby did all this girl time with another woman. This is very personal and something you should not be doing with a new friend:2c:
I wish you could invite her here to talk to other GGs.
Best wishes:hugs:

[Wildaboutheels]

Um, just because you don't seem to have a problem with her "sleeping around" doesn't mean your wife must accept your "behavior".

Tit for tat only works when it is acceptable to BOTH parties.

[MatildaJ.]

Actually we have a sexually liberal marriage. On her side. She does sometimes meet men for flings, and it's fine with me.

Did she suggest this for herself, or did you encourage her to go out and find other men?

[jennarac]

It started out when she started her job and was based in a different city than we were living in. I did not encourage her to do it, just said it was ok if she did.

Even though we're in the same city now she still does from time to time, but it's on her volition, I have never suggested it


Um, just because you don't seem to have a problem with her "sleeping around" doesn't mean your wife must accept your "behavior".

Tit for tat only works when it is acceptable to BOTH parties.

I never said it does. It's why I didn't mention it in my original post. This is a totally different thing, not tit for tat.

[Tracii G]

Saying it was OK for her to and then you saying you want only her? How in the hell does that work?
I may be wrong but it smells like you have been on the sly for some time and feel guilty that you sleep with other women so that why you say its OK for her to sleep with other men.

[MatildaJ.]

Thanks for explaining, Jenn. Maybe she feels guilty about her outside activities, and that leads her to be even more restrictive toward you. It really does seem as if counseling would help you guys talk about all these issues and how you really feel. On the other hand, if she refuses counseling and refuses to really discuss how to meet the needs of both spouses, then maybe, as Flent suggested, she's already checked out of the marriage. Sorry things aren't going well right now.

[Leona]

Actually we have a sexually liberal marriage. On her side. She does sometimes meet men for flings, and it's fine with me. She is not quite able to handle me sleeping with other women. Which is ok with me because I only want her.

Run for the hills, dear lady. Run for the hills.

She doesn't like what you wear, she can sleep with whoever she wants, and you can't wear what you want nor sleep with who you want. You can't even sleep with HER because she spends so much time out of town.

This is a doomed marriage. Walk away now, before it hurts more.

[docrobbysherry]

In my opinion, u have a weak marriage because BOTH of you have serious communication issues. And, if u both continue on without help, u won't have any kind soon! You're still very young. Whatever u think u want now will change. Possibly soon and possibly dramatically. Been there, done that.

You're only chance as I see it, is to see a very experienced counselor ASAP. I think u need one more than she does! Or, u can do as your probable ex suggests and save the money for divorce attorney's fees.

[Leona]

Also, if she throws at you that she wants to be with other men because you're not "man enough" for her, that's a clear sign of control issues, and a reason to run for the hills.

[jennarac]

Also, if she throws at you that she wants to be with other men because you're not "man enough" for her, that's a clear sign of control issues, and a reason to run for the hills.

That's never been at issue. For her she says it's just the thrill of the fling. But we still have a healthy sex life with each other

[Leona]

It's for you to determine what's happening, I only know what you tell me. Based on what you tell me, and I'm not a crazy monogamist or anything, but based on what you tell me, if this were happening to me, I'd tell her to take a long walk off a short pier. I can be single and have everything you have right now. Can you?

[Jacqueline Winona]

I feel for you, Jenna, not great. You could have handled things with the craigslist better, but you did come clean. The whole friend thing is going to be tough for her to overcome, but her real issue is with the dressing (it can be a deal breaker for many women) if your description is accurate. Can you live with only dressing around the house when she isn't around? Can she live with that? You're both going to have to have to find common ground to move forward, and that is the best solution I see for you.

[Zylia]

Even if you decide together that you're never going to dress up again for whatever reason, I think it's a smart idea that she is going to read up on your 'condition'. Maybe not directly, but certainly somewhere in the future. The simple fact that she thinks you 'might be gay' because of your CD urges is a huge red flag for her not knowing nearly enough about the subject. I know this is probably not something she signed up for when you two tied the knot, but it's not something that goes away by ignoring it.

[Samantha_Smile]

I think your wife is having a hard time dealing with the basic facts.
She seems to hold the usual per-conceived notion that CD/TVs are gays in disguise so it wouldn't surprise me if she thought you wanted a sex change or wanted to live as a woman.
When my GF was still getting a grip on my CD side i put together a bookmark folder of links for her to check out on the web (It was 3 years ago, if I still had it saved I'd put up all the links) so she could read what other people have been through, and see the same info on various different sites and begin to rationalise it as fact, and kind of back up what I was saying
"Im not gay, I dont want to live this way, I dont want a sex change, yes I still love you, of course your enough of a woman for me, no I dont want you to dress like a man when Im dressed like a woman...."
There were many other questions besides the above, but Im just illustrating the point.

She questions because she loves you.
What she needs to get her head around is that that her minds view on you is different to the reality.
Youve been dressing as long as youve known her, longer in fact... But she loves the 'you' that has always crossdressed in one way or another, to make you stop would stop you from being who you are.

You can work it out.
If need be, refer her to here, let her read the forums and look in the SO room.
I found this was helpful for my GF.

Also check out
http://www.crossdresserswives.com/revision/home.html
http://www.crossdreamers.com/2010/11/vernon-coleman-study-of-crossdressers.html
http://www.vernoncoleman.com/andwhydosome.htm

Links similar to this will be invaluable
Best wishes

[jennarac]

It's for you to determine what's happening, I only know what you tell me. Based on what you tell me, and I'm not a crazy monogamist or anything, but based on what you tell me, if this were happening to me, I'd tell her to take a long walk off a short pier. I can be single and have everything you have right now. Can you?

Actually, this last weekend when she asked me to stop, it seemed like she was trying to bargain with me. Not only did she offer to meet with Bev and try to become friends, she also offered that if I stopped dressing, she would stop sleeping with other men.

My point is, she's not simply being a control freak, and she is committed to us. She just can't accept my dressing, even if sparingly and "hidden" from her.

[MatildaJ.]

Why do you say she can't accept your dressing when she said "fine, you can do what you want"?

[jennarac]

I feel for you, Jenna, not great. You could have handled things with the craigslist better, but you did come clean. The whole friend thing is going to be tough for her to overcome, but her real issue is with the dressing (it can be a deal breaker for many women) if your description is accurate. Can you live with only dressing around the house when she isn't around? Can she live with that? You're both going to have to have to find common ground to move forward, and that is the best solution I see for you.

Unfortunately she cannot. Her issue is that I'm doing it at all. She has said that merely the thought of me doing that bothers her. Further, I've asked her explicitly if my friendship with Bev bothers her, because as much as I like Bev, she obviously is not anywhere close to as important as my wife. She said it's not the friendship that bothers her, it's that whenever I mention Bev casually (about something unrelated to dressing) she is immediately reminded of the crossdressing which then upsets her.


Why do you say she can't accept your dressing when she said "fine, you can do what you want"?

I believe Homer Simpson said it best when he said, "When a woman says nothing's wrong, that means everything's wrong. And when a woman says everything's wrong, that means everything's wrong! And when a woman says something's not funny, you'd better not laugh your ass off!"

My point is only that, this was not a reluctant, "ok, well, I guess that's what it is." It was more of a "Fine!" = "You'd better not!"

[MatildaJ.]

Second-guessing her words is not reasonable. I think you should treat her like an adult, and say that you will keep things discreet but you're not going to stop. Let her be in charge of her emotions, and her choices in life -- you be in charge of your life and do what you need to do.

[jennarac]

Second-guessing her words is not reasonable. I think you should treat her like an adult, and say that you will keep things discreet but you're not going to stop. Let her be in charge of her emotions, and her choices in life -- you be in charge of your life and do what you need to do.

Hi Jess,

That is essentially where things had left off. I'm not second-guessing her words, but context means everything. However, I'll try and go forward this way.

Another issue that she had previously mentioned (that I forgot to include in my already long original post) was something you had mentioned, she didn't know if it was going to go further than this, such as dressing this way all the time at home or even a sex-change. I tried to reassure her that was not something I'd ever want, but only as much as my words could. Obviously there is still some apprehension for her.

Maybe after a few months, she'll come to realize that perhaps it's not a big problem.

Also, I think I will go see a counselor myself, and hopefully she'd be willing to join me eventually.

[ReineD]

The fact that she's asked me to stop dressing but that I haven't dressed in almost a month makes me feel like she's creating a much bigger issue in her head than what things really are.

Yes she is, and as Tamara said, she's doing this because she doesn't understand. The only thing she knows about the CDing is the stereotype that all of us are exposed to until we delve into it a bit deeper. Before getting to know any CDers, I thought it was something that gay men do, to attract other gay men ... and to an outsider, going on Craigslist T4M is what gay men do. Your wife doesn't know that you've done this, but if she ever found your ads it would confirm the stereotype. Also, you may not realize this but you are playing with fire. Your needs will grow as your wife becomes more accepting (if she does), and if you enjoy playing around with male compliments, it could lead to an obsession with having sex with one, while you're dressed:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?196641-Liking-boys-as-a-girl (8 pages, 205 posts, 12,872 views)

At any rate, your wife needs to educate herself including possibly becoming a member here. The following link is just a beginning; it is the link that my SO sent me when he first told me about the CDing:

http://www.tri-ess.org/docs/cd01.html

Hope this helps.

[jennarac]

Yes she is, and as Tamara said, she's doing this because she doesn't understand. The only thing she knows about the CDing is the stereotype that all of us are exposed to until we delve into it a bit deeper. Before getting to know any CDers, I thought it was something that gay men do, to attract other gay men ... and to an outsider, going on Craigslist T4M is what gay men do. Your wife doesn't know that you've done this, but if she ever found your ads it would confirm the stereotype. Also, you may not realize this but you are playing with fire. Your needs will grow as your wife becomes more accepting (if she does), and if you enjoy playing around with male compliments, it could lead to an obsession with having sex with one, while you're dressed:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?196641-Liking-boys-as-a-girl (8 pages, 205 posts, 12,872 views)

At any rate, your wife needs to educate herself including possibly becoming a member here. The following link is just a beginning; it is the link that my SO sent me when he first told me about the CDing:

http://www.tri-ess.org/docs/cd01.html

Hope this helps.

Thanks Reine. I didn't realize it at the time, but I do now realize that was a dangerous game. It is also why I have stopped that behavior. I don't want to do anything that I'm not prepared to be completely honest with my wife about.

This is something that is very difficult for her. As a result, I'm not looking for support from her in this. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable dressing around her.

Ultimately, she is more important to me than dressing, but ideally I'd love for her to be able to accept this small separate part of me, and know that I'm still the same person she's always known.

[MatildaJ.]

I tried to reassure her that was not something I'd ever want, but only as much as my words could.

Yes, exactly. Words & promises can only provide a small amount of reassurance, because most people who dress frequently or even transition started out as people who said (at least to their wives) that they like being men and this will not become a big part of their lives. If you read the transition forum here, you'll see many posts from people saying "wow, two years ago I was just starting out as a crossdresser; I could never have imagined wanting to transition, and yet now it feels like nothing could stop this steamroller."


she's doing this because she doesn't understand....Your needs will grow as your wife becomes more accepting

Hi Reine,
Why do you say "she doesn't understand," when you yourself say that his needs are likely to grow?

To me, the reasonable approach is to accept that
a) none of us are guaranteed a Cinderella fairy tale happy ending, and
b) none of us know how much longer we have to spend together.

I don't know how long I have with my husband -- he may decide to transition, or he may fall in love with someone at work, or he may get hit by a truck. But if I spend my time with him arguing about gender issues, or sulking, or worrying, all I've done is guarantee that I didn't get to enjoy whatever time I do have with him. Make each day you have together precious, because it's the only one you can be sure you will have. Let tomorrow take care of itself.

I know it's easier to say that than to do it. But at least it's a reasonable goal: to enjoy each day together and not worry too much about how many more days we'll have in the future.

[Lorileah]

I am polyamorus, I am involved in alternate lifestyle things, I am not usually the jealous type, I do like to think that my partner can have outside interests but...(you knew this was coming) advertizing for T4M (sorry but that still means "gay" or "bi") or T4W and saying it is just platonic? It may seem innocent to you but I don't get it. Also it seems that when you get a little fron your wife (dress when she isn't here, keep the shoes but hidden) you seem to want to push it further. Eventually the balloon will burst.

But here is one thing you can use maybe...sorta...well I wouldn't but you can. She finds the "flings exciting" tell you you find the clothes exciting. Seems to be fair. :idontknow:

[jennarac]

I am polyamorus, I am involved in alternate lifestyle things, I am not usually the jealous type, I do like to think that my partner can have outside interests but...(you knew this was coming) advertizing for T4M (sorry but that still means "gay" or "bi") or T4W and saying it is just platonic? It may seem innocent to you but I don't get it. Also it seems that when you get a little fron your wife (dress when she isn't here, keep the shoes but hidden) you seem to want to push it further. Eventually the balloon will burst.

But here is one thing you can use maybe...sorta...well I wouldn't but you can. She finds the "flings exciting" tell you you find the clothes exciting. Seems to be fair. :idontknow:

Thanks Lorileah.

I think at the time I found the compliments from guys innocent, that I was just appealing to my vanity, but I have since realized it is probably not and I have shut that down. As for the T4W platonic, since dressing is something I know I could never get support from my wife from, I was hoping to find someone that maybe I could go out with and, if I chose to wear it, help me with makeup as I have no clue about it.

I can say I understand the doubts from others here about the innocence of my friendship with this other woman, but I can only say what I know to be true. I feel like we're old friends, and there is nothing romantic at all between us.

Also, I'm not trying to push things any further than what I've already done. I simply don't want to have to lie to my wife about this anymore. I have no problem using discretion to keep it "out of sight, out of mind" for her. But if it came down to her asking me point blank, did you dress up, I don't want to lie to her.

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

Forgive me if I'm going to be very blunt and negative here after reading the entire thread. I see and predict a train wreck down the tracks. The complexity of all that is and has been going on is a red flag in too many ways. Your wife is highly resistant to accepting your dressing and unless something revolutionary happens, I really doubt that this will resolve itself. This may well become a constant struggle for both of you and any supression is only going to boil over at some point.

My first wife sort of accepted it with me but then other factors came into play that are too numerous to mention right now. In the end we divorced. Today I have a wife who knew on about our third date and fully accepts me.

I really hope you can resolve this and maintain your marriage. At on your own at least speak with a counselor---the best advice I can give. I remember after my separation I asked mine if I would ever meet a woman who could accept me the way way I am. He said, "Yes, you will." And I did.

Cheryl Ann

[ReineD]

Hi Reine,
Why do you say "she doesn't understand," when you yourself say that his needs are likely to grow?

I don't mean grow to the point of transition. I don't think that Jennarac is TS. But if you look at the fantasy 'boys-as-girls' link I posted, autogynephilia (AGP) can grow to the point of desiring men as props in order to experience sex as a woman, whether or not a CDer ever goes there physically. Jenn did say that s/he feels sexy when dressed and that it led to playing on Craigslist. (Jenn ... I'm glad you decided to abandon that chase :))

But it's been proven in this forum time and time again that CDing levels do grow at least to the point of wishing to go out in public on a regular basis and establishing a part-time life as a girl ... I must add, providing the CDer eliminates all external and internal barriers.

Back to Jenn, even if you don't want your wife to be involved, it is still important for her to understand where all this is coming from and where it will potentially lead (albeit not transition), else you risk continually stretching the boundaries until your marriage is severely strained. It will start with shaving parts of your body if you don't do this already, then trimming your eyebrows, perhaps getting rid of the dark facial hair (5 o'clock shadow is difficult to deal with), piercing your ears (clip-ons are uncomfortable), buying forms, pads, waist-cinchers, expanding your wardrobe exponentially ... as you grow to the point of wanting to present a realistic appearance when you go out to mingle in public.

All of this tends to begin around middle age, or earlier for some people.

[jennarac]

Back to Jenn, even if you don't want your wife to be involved, it is still important for her to understand where all this is coming from and where it will potentially lead (albeit not transition), else you risk continually stretching the boundaries until your marriage is severely strained. It will start with shaving parts of your body if you don't do this already, then trimming your eyebrows, perhaps getting rid of the dark facial hair (5 o'clock shadow is difficult to deal with), piercing your ears (clip-ons are uncomfortable), buying forms, pads, waist-cinchers, expanding your wardrobe exponentially ... as you grow to the point of wanting to present a realistic appearance when you go out to mingle in public.

All of this tends to begin around middle age, or earlier for some people.

Hi Reine, while I would like to shave my legs because it simply looks nicer (either bare or in stockings, also I feel my primary fixation is on the legs), I don't do that because on more than one occasion, completely unrelated to a discussion about dressing, my wife has said she loves my hairy legs.

As for all the other things you mentioned, it's really difficult for me to imagine wanting to do all or any of those things. That said, it seems from conversations and links I've read here, it's also impossible to say precisely what will be in the future. I had also read a research paper that a lot of these escalations tend to happen closer to middle age, due to (at least this paper's hypothesis) waning male hormones, which would coincide with your comment.

[MysticLady]

Can anyone else shed some light or advice onto my situation? Am I being unreasonable? Because I want to know if I am. I actually suggested at one point that maybe we should see a marriage counselor, but she immediately shot that down saying "that would be a waste of money."

-Jenn

Sounds all too familiar. Once you figure it out Jenn, let me know.

[ReineD]

As for all the other things you mentioned, it's really difficult for me to imagine wanting to do all or any of those things.

Right. But don't forget, I also said providing you rid yourself of external (your wife's non-acceptance, fear of being found out) and internal (fear of ridicule, fear of going farther while not yet understanding where it is leading and why) barriers.

Not everyone will go as far as I described. But, a very wise (and practiced) CDer once said something that I've always observed to be true: "A crossdresser will want take it as far as he dreams or as far as he feels that he can."

[Wildaboutheels]

Just so you know... Not everyone evolves, changes, progresses - call it what you will - or WORRIES of what may be down the CDing line for them.

You don't seem to fit this category.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?198568-Are-you-at-least-a-little-WORRIED&highlight=

[jennyscott]

... I actually suggested at one point that maybe we should see a marriage counselor, but she immediately shot that down saying "that would be a waste of money."

After reading through this thread there is one thing that keeps gnawing my heels! I understand the issues of trust, confusion, and uncertainty that Jenn's CD bring. Without minimizing that I keep returning to the point that Jenn's wife has outside relationships (perhaps too strong a term?). That right there suggests a significant need for marriage counseling! I point this out not to be judgmental but to indicate a marriage at risk.

Good luck Jenn.


... a very wise (and practiced) CDer once said something that I've always observed to be true: "A crossdresser will want take it as far as he dreams or as far as he feels that he can."

Thanks for the insight Reine. There's more truth in that statement than I have ever considered.

[jennarac]

Just so you know... Not everyone evolves, changes, progresses - call it what you will - or WORRIES of what may be down the CDing line for them.

You don't seem to fit this category.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?198568-Are-you-at-least-a-little-WORRIED&highlight=

Hi, I'm dense sometimes, but I can't quite figure out which category you meant by "this", the category that does worry or the category that doesn't.

To be honest, before posting yesterday, I wasn't worried. I had basically gotten what I had wanted by just going out and having fun drinking with a friend.

I didn't start to worry until people started telling me I should worry. So now I'm not sure if I should be worried or not :-/


After reading through this thread there is one thing that keeps gnawing my heels! I understand the issues of trust, confusion, and uncertainty that Jenn's CD bring. Without minimizing that I keep returning to the point that Jenn's wife has outside relationships (perhaps too strong a term?). That right there suggests a significant need for marriage counseling! I point this out not to be judgmental but to indicate a marriage at risk.

Good luck Jenn.

While I will try to seek counseling and hopefully convince her to join me eventually, I don't necessarily agree that a sexually liberal marriage is indicative of a serious problem. First, I wouldn't call them relationships, it's basically based purely on sex so it's more akin to a fling. And it's not very frequent, maybe 1-3 times a year.

Further, we've fully discussed it to a degree where we're both comfortable with it. For her it's just the excitement you can sometimes experience with sex with a new person, and I'm fine with her enjoying her sexuality in that way. I actually find the fact that she is such a sexual person even more arousing to me.

As for me, she is a bit more jealous and is a bit more reluctant to allow me to do the same with another woman, but she has said that she understands it wouldn't be fair to do that and forbid me to. She said if I had an opportunity to do so, tell her about it, and she will try and see how she feels about it. However, that's not been an issue because I've had no opportunities and haven't really sought them out.

[KarenCDFL]

After reading through this thread I have to honestly say it is time for both of you to move on.

At this point your wife will most likely not give you the space for you to be who you need to be and with all of the "telling after the fact" stuff there does not seem to be real trust or love any more. DO you really want to be at odds with your wife till death do you part?

Move on before too much time passes so you both can enjoy the rest of your lives.

I have posted this before but I made the effort to let my then girlfriend who is now my wife of almost 19 years all about my dressing.

She had no clue what a CD was and it was even funnier the first time I dressed for her cause her first words when she saw me was "I really need to teach you some things"

It took a few years and a lot of communication and professional therapy to where we are both as comfy as we are now. I dress in whatever I want/whenever I want and there are times when I am really stressed from my job or something and my wife will tell me that I should get all dolled up and relax.

But the bottom line was is that I told her way before we married to give us both a way out and we never hid anything from each other.

And I made sure before I did anything new or different, I ran it past her first. Not that I had to but I did it out of consideration for her. It worked out very well.

I wish you both luck.

[MatildaJ.]

For what it's worth, I'm in an open marriage. We opened up after 15 years, and we've both taken advantage of the freedom. A lot the first year (after 15 years of monogamy), and now after a few years it has tapered off, to just 1-3 times a year, like Jenn's wife.

One advantage of having an open marriage is that I'm less terrified of entering this new world of transgender issues. Here are some reasons why:
1) We already dealt with a potentially marriage-ending issue and we came through it even stronger than before, and with improved sexual energy between us as well.

2) If he ends up going all the way to transition, I have more confidence I'll still be able to enjoy our sex life because I've tried sex with women, and I also know that I'll be allowed to get a boyfriend if I have needs that my spouse can't satisfy.

3) If my husband ends up wanting to try sex with men while he's dressed, that isn't going to be the end of the world. I won't say we've solved the problem of jealousy, but we've certainly got a handle on it and we know we can survive it.

[jennarac]

At this point your wife will most likely not give you the space for you to be who you need to be and with all of the "telling after the fact" stuff there does not seem to be real trust or love any more. DO you really want to be at odds with your wife till death do you part?

With all due respect, there is still a great deal of love in our relationship. As for trust, we've had our share of issues with that (the cheating before we were married), and that took its toll, but we've since worked through that, for the better. My words here may not convince you, but I can tell you that from the events of the past month, there was no sense of surprise or betrayal from her, just... disappointment and disgust with the activity.


But the bottom line was is that I told her way before we married to give us both a way out and we never hid anything from each other.

That is fantastic that you were able to bring that about at such an early stage in your relationship. As for me, when she discovered my collection of high heels the first time around (before we were married) and asked me to simply not do that anymore, at that time, it didn't seem like a big deal to me, certainly not worth losing that amazing girl over. I'll admit when I came back to it several months later, simply hiding it may have not been the most correct course of action. I should've perhaps been more open about it then, and given her a chance to decide. But that's why I'm being honest with her about it now.

I can understand if she can never support this or want to participate in this. And she does understand (she has said these words explicitly) that this is a part of who I am that cannot change. I just hope to get to a point where the mere fact that I occasionally do it doesn't upset her greatly.

[MysticLady]

Jenn, any kids involved? Sorry, too lazy to read the whole thing.

[jennarac]

Jenn, any kids involved? Sorry, too lazy to read the whole thing.

Haha, it won't let me reply with a two word post, so I have to type this sentence. No kids.

[MysticLady]

No kids.

Cut her loose.....................See Ya....................Just an opinion OK..

[jennarac]

Cut her loose.....................See Ya....................Just an opinion OK..

Care to elaborate why? Do you mean free myself of her？ Or free her from me? Or both?

Also, I'm trying not to respond over-defensively, but isn't that a bit dismissive of everything good we do have in our relationship?

[MysticLady]

Jenn, Based on my experience w/ my wife, she will never accept this from you and you will never be happy repressing this. If you love this woman then your going to have too put your foot down and tell her to stop whining about it. It will become a nightmare. I decided to split myself. Now, I have peace of mind and me and my wife are friends for now. But she thinks this thing of mine is gross, ick, disgusting, not manly, brain problems and won't do woopie w/ me. So, what to do? Like I said, when you find the secret let me know.

[ReineD]

I didn't start to worry until people started telling me I should worry. So now I'm not sure if I should be worried or not :-/

You're speaking as if going further is a negative. The only negative is that we live in a society that doesn't understand it all too well. But someone like my SO and many of the members here are fine with it. My SO has become practiced enough to go out in public dressed a few times per week, in the next town over, alone or sometimes with me. S/he has gotten to know some of the people who work at the places she goes to regularly and s/he has established some friendships. His work life is not threatened, since he keeps this private from his colleagues. So all in all, my SO has found a great balance with all of this. I do need to say though that my SO eliminated tons of barriers (external AND internal), to get where s/he is today and it didn't really start until his 40s.

[jennarac]

Jenn, Based on my experience w/ my wife, she will never accept this from you and you will never be happy repressing this. If you love this woman then your going to have too put your foot down and tell her to stop whining about it. It will become a nightmare. I decided to split myself. Now, I have peace of mind and me and my wife are friends for now. But she thinks this thing of mine is gross, ick, disgusting, not manly, brain problems and won't do woopie w/ me. So, what to do? Like I said, when you find the secret let me know.

Even throughout the past month, we've still maintained a healthy sex life. And while things are tense between us while discussing the dressing, usually a few hours later we're getting along fine again. She's very much "out of sight/out of mind"

[MysticLady]

That's Great that she doesn't see this as a mental block for nookie. I wish I could tell you that it'll work out but, I suspect, based on what I've read on your posts, it isn't going too last. Prepare yourself for the topsy turvey deals w/ her. She'll turn on you, I guarantee it.

[MatildaJ.]

I'm more optimistic, if you have been able to get through the open-marriage conversation without ending the relationship, this is easier. It's not about how much you each love each other. It's just a matter of you being honest about how important this is to your well-being, and her giving it some time to see whether she can get her head around it and stay in the relationship.

[Julie Gaum]

The first responses gave reasonable advice based on the information you provided; but then you added a reply that for some unbelievable rationale didn't seem important to you ---but was a BIG game changer. You may have sex with her but you sure as h--l
don't have a marriage! There is no future, no way, no how for a happy marriage. SHE DOEN'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND for whatever reason and certainly not to mend a very broken alliance. Sadly, one has to believe that you already knew where this plea for advice was headed. No need to qualify my response with an "if you or she did such and such" --- considering that you are both working, no children, and she has legally committed adultery a divorce will be less costly than is usual --- get a life --- you only have one.
Julie

[MatildaJ.]

Open marriages aren't immoral if both people agree to it. I understand they're not for everyone, though.

[NicoleScott]

Jenn, as others have pointed out, you haven't been totally reasonable, but she has some hard-headed idea that if you crossdress, you're gay. Only you know how rocky or stable your relationship is with her, but I'd be cautious about taking advice from those who haven't even read your post or replies. Come on, folks!
Anyway, if your marriage is worth saving, and maybe it is for reasons not brought up, here's what I think is the way:
Don't Ask Don't Tell
- you have the internal drive that won't go away.
- she knows and she doesn't like it even when she doesn't see it, but for sure she doesn't want to see it.
So......the two of you agree that:
- you will do it only in private, away from her, and that means everything: your clothes, makeup, shoes, etc. photos, and conversation. Out of her knowledge completely. That's Don't Tell
- she won't try to find out what you're doing, where your things are, snooping, etc. She won't know when/whether you do or don't. That's Don't Ask.
This can work if both of you are acceptable. If at any time either of you don't like the agreement, don't break it but tell the other that you want to re-negotiate.

Nay-sayers like to point out that DADT didn't work for the military. DADT was imposed, not agreed upon, not negotiated. Not the same, the argument doesn't work. DADT works for many couples.

[jennarac]

Thanks Nicole.

Despite what some others have said or think, my marriage isn't on the rocks or on the brink. It's actually been quite good except for this point of contention in recent weeks. And even then we're able to be close and communicative and intimate as always throughout this time... just not when discussing the CD topic or when she's reminded of it.

My point is only that my marriage is worth keeping and maintaining (not saving).

Your suggested approach seems to be reasonable, but I also feel that it will be useful to speak with a marriage counselor, to make sure that we are handling things in a way that is long-term healthy that allows us both to feel happy and fulfilled.

[Leona]

I don't know if I should even answer now. You're showing all the signs of being victimized by your wife, including all of the denial. There *are* control issues here, it's plain as day.

But until you can look at it and see it yourself, you'll just keep sinking deeper. I don't think she cares about the CDing. I think it's a way for her to control you. Considering that she offered to quit sleeping around (or at least to take it underground), it looks like that *is* a tit for tat thing, and it doesn't really matter.

Maybe she knows more about this than anybody gives her credit for. Maybe she knows how much control she'll gain over you if she can successfully subvert your CDing.

Maybe that's what almost happened to Victoria, too, and she's better off on her own. :hugs: Victoria

I think the kind of counselor you need is an abuse counselor. It won't kill you to try and see and get a qualified opinion on it (not that mine isn't qualified, it's just not credentialled, I've been in a few abusive relationships....).

[MatildaJ.]

No one knows what goes on in another person's marriage. I'm sure many of you wouldn't want to be married to the OP's wife, and you probably wouldn't want to be married to me. But surprise, surprise, sometimes the kind of women who CAN put up with a crossdresser or transgendered person also has unconventional needs of her own. I'm kinkier than my crossdressing husband, but he gives me free rein to go play with other people to satisfy my needs. Conversely, because I do have needs of my own, I can appreciate my husband's needs as well, including cross-dressing.

My assumption is that if you want to attract a spouse who is open-minded, non-conventional, and doesn't care so much about traditional gender roles, it helps to be an open-minded, non-conventional person yourself!

[Vickie_CDTV]

At first, I really sympathized with your wife, but the fact she sleeps around on you really changes the game. In light of that, having a platonic relationship with a GG who goes out with you dressed once a month is hardly unreasonable given what she is asking you to accept.

[heatherdress]

I think we are going for a ride in this thread. Jenna states:
- she has been CDing for 18 years but started wearing skirts, stockings and high heels about 5 years ago (the same time she met her wife)
- she has cut out her bad behaviors, doesn't want to be a liar or cheater anymore
- her marriage is OK even though she can communicate better with a married woman she found on Craigslist
- she posted T4M pictures on-line which was OK with her wife
- her wife offered to stop having sex with other partners if Jenna stops crossdressing
- his wife has flings with other guys which is OK with Jenna, actually exciting
- but his wife cannot handle when he sleeps with other women
- she still has a healthy sex life with her wife
- etc, etc, etc

If all true, and if Jenna and her wife are OK with their marriage - except for the CDing - then there is only one issue to address - Jenna's crossdressing.

[MysticLady]

Open marriages aren't immoral if both people agree to it. I understand they're not for everyone, though.

Hi Jess, though I'm not one to counsel others in marriages but, I just have an issue w/ my wife sleeping w/ other men. She is not a toy.


Thanks Nicole.

Despite what some others have said or think, my marriage isn't on the rocks or on the brink. It's actually been quite good except for this point of contention in recent weeks. And even then we're able to be close and communicative and intimate as always throughout this time... just not when discussing the CD topic or when she's reminded of it.


Hi Jenn, if my wife was sleeping around w/ others, then she sure as hell should not have issues regarding the CDing. That's a crock of poopie.



Maybe that's what almost happened to Victoria, too, and she's better off on her own. :hugs: Victoria

I think the kind of counselor you need is an abuse counselor. It won't kill you to try and see and get a qualified opinion on it (not that mine isn't qualified, it's just not credentialled, I've been in a few abusive relationships....).

Hi Leona, yes, my wife has a little issue w/ control which I really had no problems with since, it was always to benefit my family as a whole. I would let of stuff fly w/o much trouble too me. Then she wigged out over the CDing and the more she confronted me about it the more I stood my ground. I became a sailors knot, the more she pulled the tighter I got. I don't need a counselor, I just need her to dial into life.



My assumption is that if you want to attract a spouse who is open-minded, non-conventional, and doesn't care so much about traditional gender roles, it helps to be an open-minded, non-conventional person yourself!

I want a conventional, traditional woman and I will have it my way. She will learn to tolerate this in me. She's just stubborn and I can be even more so.

[Naomi Rayne]

I don't normally stick my nose in these kinds of things. But hey why not. Maybe my advise will help. Firstly I agree with heather. Things have gone for a bit of a ride. The issue is the CDing and that's it.

The point I want to make is on the wife offering to stop sleeping around if Jenna stops dressing. What's happening there is the wife is trying to in some way renegotiate the terms available of the entire marriage? So that's the only issue that goes beyond the CDIng. Personally I'm gonna go with the get down to basics with your wife. Lay out what it is you want. What's negotiable and what's not. You dress. Its not going away. Non negotiable. After she understands that. Then its time to move on. I also agree with the DADT policy someone else put down here. Because your wife doesn't want to be a part of it. This all has to work in steps. So start with step one. Which is ....this is what I do....it won't change....you don't like it....but can you accept it... You have to start there before anything else gets discussed. Basics and one step at a time.

[jennarac]

I think we are going for a ride in this thread. Jenna states:
- she has been CDing for 18 years but started wearing skirts, stockings and high heels about 5 years ago (the same time she met her wife)
- she has cut out her bad behaviors, doesn't want to be a liar or cheater anymore
- her marriage is OK even though she can communicate better with a married woman she found on Craigslist
- she posted T4M pictures on-line which was OK with her wife
- her wife offered to stop having sex with other partners if Jenna stops crossdressing
- his wife has flings with other guys which is OK with Jenna, actually exciting
- but his wife cannot handle when he sleeps with other women
- she still has a healthy sex life with her wife
- etc, etc, etc

If all true, and if Jenna and her wife are OK with their marriage - except for the CDing - then there is only one issue to address - Jenna's crossdressing.

Just to clarify a few of those points:
-I have been CDing for 18 years and have been wearing those things throughout that time. It did not begin coincident with the time I met my wife.
-my marriage is doing well, because, except for the CD issue which she would rather avoid talking and thinking about, she and I have great lines of communication. The friend I made on Craigslist is just that. Yes I can communicate well with her, especially on topics about CD and my wife, but it is not in lieu of talking to my wife. My wife is not being neglected or lost attention due to my new friend.
-I posted T4M pictures on-line for the feedback, for my own vanity really. My wife did and does not know about that, but that activity has also stopped.

The other points were accurate.
Just to clarify, as someone mentioned earlier, the crossdressing and her sexual freedom are not tit for tat. She is not comfortable with my CDing, whereas I have no problem at all with her occasional dalliances. And the issues are unrelated.

But ultimately yes, the only issue to address is the reason I came to this forum, my wife's ability to cope with my crossdressing. To see if I was being unreasonable in my requests of her. Should I try to be more considerate of her feelings on the issue and try and place it to the side? Or is something like once a month when she is not home a reasonable request that I should hope she can try to deal with?

I do appreciate the helpful advice I have received.

-Jenn

[ReineD]

Should I try to be more considerate of her feelings on the issue and try and place it to the side? Or is something like once a month when she is not home a reasonable request that I should hope she can try to deal with?

Judging by people's experiences here, I don't think that you can place it to the side for the long term. It is best to find out for yourself where this is coming from so that you can explain it to your wife. She does need to understand that it is more than a hobby, it is not a choice, it is actually a part of you.

As to doing it once per month, this may be sufficient for now but if you can see an increase of cross-gender expression in your past (going from stocking and heels to acquiring street clothes, wanting to out yourself to other people, wanting to stretch your closet to going out dressed), it is more than likely that once per month will not be sufficient in the future. And if you try to keep it at once per month, your thoughts will turn to the CDing more often, which may well make you seem distant to your wife if you allow yourself to do this when she is present.

[Dani Lee]

Your wife asked if you could stop for her. The answer is yes....BUT only for a time. How long is up to you.

If you want your marriage to work, you should spend this time talking about it. She will have to accept that this is not a phase or something that can be cured. You need to show her that you are still the man she married and that you want to be open and honest with her regarding dressing up. Your best bet is to educate her about crossdressing. Urge her to join a support group for wives.

You can stop. But the desire to be Jenna will cause resentment and stress.
Or you can do as you have behind her back, but this will cause problems as well.
Only together can you decide how to make this work.

A good starting point that my wife and i used was the wives cds Bill of Rights (http://www.tri-ess.org/Wives_CDs_BofR.html)

I wish you the best of luck.

[Sonia_cd]

Hey there! I've thought long and hard about posting on this thread and here goes.
First, I applaud you for your honesty, both with yourself and with your wife, if everything you've posted here is any indication. You have the courage to accept your transgressions for what they are and have a definite sense of your feelings for your wife and your marriage. You also have the humility and courage to accept your errors of judgement without seeking to defend them. I get the sense that you are an inherently trusting person who views human interactions for what they are in the moment, without attributing motive or intention to words. You also seem like the person that processes all emotions best when they are expressed and communicated rather than forming judgements based on one or the other action. If this is correct, more power to you! :)
I'm particularly struck by your statement that worry never formed a part of your thought process until multiple views and opinions were presented before you. Do I feel you know what your priorities are? Yes, I do. Do I feel you've found your peace and comfort with the dressing? Perhaps not. If I were to venture an opinion, I would say you're at the start of your journey; ergo, confusion and conflict.

No, I do not subscribe to the common view that your wife is a controlling individual seeking to dictate terms to you. Expressing extreme discomfort or a dislike for one or the other activity doesn't make a person controlling. Because that dislike manifests itself as a demand to cease and desist doesn't make a person controlling. From all your posts it is a contrary perception that presents itself; one of healthy respect and acceptance of each other's needs and differences, save one in your case.

She may very well be confused, a confusion that is today presenting itself as an aversion to your needs. Will that change? Only time will tell. Then again, you may be equally confused, therefore bringing you here and promoting you to ask the questions you have.

To pass judgement on the integrity, nature, freedoms and restrictions of your marriage is something I am loathe to do because you and your wife have made your marriage work. Principally your channels of communication are open and to my mind that is the biggest virtue any relationship can have. I pray you keep it, no matter how difficult the conversations or how heated the arguments and disagreements.

I know my views on this will not be viewed kindly by many here, based on the replies and responses you have received thus far. But I'm genuinely appreciative of the fact that you have worked through and past your transgressions to remain married. It tells me there is a genuine bond there, one that keeps in continuous perspective the reasons for which you got married in the first place. Are you being unreasonable? If you look beyond your conflict you might find your answer with no goading or pointing from any of us. To flip the question, are you happy within? I mean genuinely happy? The answer to that would tell you if this is you being unreasonable or your heart telling showing you what you need to find happiness within.

I hope you will forgive me for what turned out to be a book rather than a reply to your posts. And I will continue to watch this thread for the wonderful insights it provides into perceptions of marriage, relationships, transparency and communication. Despite all of us wanting nothing more than acceptance we appear eager to judge others with little or no fact; ironic, isn't it!

Hugs, Sonia

[Tracii G]

Jenn I thought both my marriages were fine and both ended up with them cheating on me. Your case is much different I realize that.
The main thing is the man is always the last to know what her reasons are when she either files divorce papers or walks out the door.She may be in the planning stages of dropping the bomb on you.
She is playing you and using your CDing against you.If it quacks like a duck its probably a duck.
This is only my opinion of course