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Veronica27
08-07-2013, 02:25 PM
My Latest Epiphany (system won't allow correction of typo in title)

My views on crossdressing have undergone some interesting changes over the years as I continued to read and absorb whatever information I could find. These changes haven't been overly drastic, but have been more along the lines of refining my thoughts and opinions. A prime example of this has been my views about the use of the term transgender. Without getting into the monotonous arguments that have pervaded the forum, initially, I paid little attention to the term as it became popular, accepting it as a sort of synonym for crossdressing that sounded to many a little less about the clothing aspect and more about their feelings.

As the term gained acceptance as an "umbrella" term for the entire community, I began to give it more thought, looking into its actual meaning and origins. This led me to the conclusions which I have often stated on the forum receiving a very mixed reaction. However, all that is beside the point of this thread. A recent thread by Frederique entitled "All or Nothing" received some replies that recalled a few things I had read in recent months. One of these was a comment by Tamara about the difference in meaning between transgender and transgendered. In some respects, this conflict makes our differences between CD or TG pale in comparison. A good discussion about this was on the following blog and the various comments that followed. (Much of it appears to be from the TS side of things):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joanne-herman/transgender-or-transgende_b_492922.html

This brings me to my latest epiphany. All the debate over CD/TG boils down to a few simple facts.
a) CD's consider their activities to have nothing to do with feelings about their gender being in conflict, confused or at odds with their sex.
b) TG's consider their activities to be a reflection of the duality of their gender.

The key questions raised by this are 1) If crossdressing is not about gender, then what is it about? and 2) Why is each side so adamant in arguing that their position is correct, even to the extent of implying that it applies to everyone?

The answers rest on one simple three letter word...sex. Crossdressing is about sex and not gender. I am referring to the primary meaning of that word and not to its current usage as a synonym for intercourse or copulation, which has led to the miss use of the word gender as being synonymous to the real meaning of sex. When men crossdress, they wear clothing intended for the opposite sex, not the opposite gender. While some crossdressers insist they do not use breast forms, most do. This is an emulation of the female sex, not the feminine gender. I know there are the usual arguments about the clothes fitting better, passing ability and so on, but it is still an accoutrement of the female sex. Does this mean they want to be women? Not necessarily and not usually. It simply reflects the fact that most are heterosexual, are attracted to and intrigued by the female form and glory in representations of that even if it involves making themselves the pseudo object of that admiration. Does this mean their crossdressing is a fetish and used for sexual gratification. Again sometimes but not necessarily, especially with maturity.

Does gender not enter into the equation then? Certainly it does, but as gender is an abstract term it is impossible to measure its extent. One argument made in the article that I referenced is that if we have a gender, then how can we be transgender. We either are what we claim or we are not. If by gender we are referring to our inner sense of masculinity versus femininity, then this would certainly have an impact on the extent of our dressing. But this is more about how our personality fits into societal norms. Every man possesses qualities that others could consider to be feminine in nature, regardless of whether he is a crossdresser.

So why the debate between CD and TG? There is an element of stigma attached to being associated with actions that are deemed sexual in nature, but are outside of socially accepted norms of behaviour. That stigma attaches to crossdressing in the minds of many, and so some distance themselves from those implications by attaching themselves to the theories of gender inherent in TG. By the same token, there is also a stigma in some circles to such things as having gender conflicts, which when strong enough amount to a sex conflict rather than a gender conflict. We refer to transsexual, sex change and sex reassignment surgery, not a gender change. Those who do not sense any confusion about their gender, tend to distance themselves from any implication that they do, by insisting on their CD status, and describing their crossdressing benefits rather than its causes.

Whatever the answers, crossdressing is fun, relaxing and a tremendous adventure and experience. It relieves stress and has other beneficial health benefits. As I grow well into my so called Golden Years, I just wish our community could concentrate more on conveying a message of normalcy to our habits rather than emphasizing how different we are from the mainstream. By promoting our gender uniqueness, or that we are gender gifted we tend to set ourselves apart

Veronica

GaleWarning
08-07-2013, 04:04 PM
I think that crossdressing, for those of us who do not consider themselves to be transgendered, is also about freedom of choice. How I wish that I was free to wear whatever I felt like wearing, whenever and wherever I felt like wearing it!

Zylia
08-07-2013, 04:55 PM
I think you're making some very good points here. By your terminology, I'd say a cross-dresser is a person who emulates or imitates someone from the opposite sex by adopting certain elements of the social construct and the physical appearance associated with that sex. What I really miss in your story is the social construct part, because in my opinion, a cross-dressing isn't about 'the opposite sex' in general, it's mostly about a relatively narrow interpretation, or at least a relatively narrow subset of the opposite sex.

Seana Summer
08-07-2013, 06:59 PM
These, I think, have been very good discussions over the past few days, and I find it very educational and enlightening:thinking:. My views toward the entire LGBT community have evolved greatly in the last few years as I have really began thinking about this strange activity I partake in. I find myself a much more tolerant person today than I was a few years ago.

While some may bristle at Frederiques approach the content truly is thought provoking. Veronica, I also appreciate your thoughts and sharing your epiphany. Unfortunately, as in many walks of life, not everyone wants to think, not everyone want to be challenged.

This is my favorite part



Whatever the answers, crossdressing is fun, relaxing and a tremendous adventure and experience. It relieves stress and has other beneficial health benefits. As I grow well into my so called Golden Years, I just wish our community could concentrate more on conveying a message of normalcy to our habits rather than emphasizing how different we are from the mainstream.

Veronica

In part, for me, crossdressing is a bit of an escape. A chance to be someone else for a short while. Someone who has less responsibility and dose not have to compete and constantly think. There are other ways I can escape, but I have this mysterious attraction to women's clothing, and I am not sure I want to know why. I already know too much about how too many things work.......and why. Its nice to have an enjoyable life mystery.

My best regards to ALL no matter your label and definition

Seana

Sorry Veronica, if I veered a little off from your post. I have been :thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking: too much lately in other areas (not here):D I am glad you and others are taking up the slack for me!

Frédérique
08-08-2013, 06:44 AM
My views on crossdressing have undergone some interesting changes over the years as I continued to read and absorb whatever information I could find. These changes haven't been overly drastic, but have been more along the lines of refining my thoughts and opinions. A prime example of this has been my views about the use of the term transgender.

When I crossdress I never think about gender. Honestly. I’m not at that “level.” I really feel like the same person regardless of how I happen to be dressed. I don’t have a female persona, for instance. I would rather concentrate on the word “dressing,” dispense with ideas about gender, and dress-up purely for fun. If pressed for an explanation, I would state that I am firmly entrenched in my birth gender – calling me transgender would be inaccurate, and it would be an insult to all those who either ARE transgendered or feel they are transgendered…

The male is THERE, under the dress, the skirt, or whatever. I may forget he is there, for a little while, but he IS there. This means I’m a male who dresses as a female, on occasion. Right now, as I’m typing this, I’m dressed as a male. In a few minutes I have to check the air pressure on my car’s tires, and then go down and see how much the creek has risen (we are under a flood watch at present in this part of Kansas), so I dress for practicality. Later, I will crossdress for pleasure. After THAT, the male will no doubt re-appear, to expedite some other inevitable boyish circumstance. Since only clothes are being exchanged, I submit that my particular phenomenon is a form of dressing, and not a wholesale exchange of gender characteristics, thinking, or feeling. I believe I am allowed to do this and still (quite accurately) call myself a crossdresser…


Whatever the answers, crossdressing is fun, relaxing and a tremendous adventure and experience. It relieves stress and has other beneficial health benefits. As I grow well into my so called Golden Years, I just wish our community could concentrate more on conveying a message of normalcy to our habits rather than emphasizing how different we are from the mainstream. By promoting our gender uniqueness, or that we are gender gifted we tend to set ourselves apart.

Yes, I agree that it is fun, interesting, relaxing, and a splendid adventure. Crossdressing enhances one’s life, even though it would be hard to explain why to an outsider. I just know that when I’m on my deathbed, I’ll be thinking about the many happy experiences I had whilst crossdressed –these represent the times when I was most aware, most child-like, and most in tune with the rhythms of the Universe. Really. All this because I once had the courage to try something forbidden, once upon a time. It really can be that profound, if you are predisposed to such profundities…

Zylia
08-08-2013, 07:15 AM
As with many terms, the term 'cross-dressing' can be applied to a whole range of things, not just the archetype. You can't have a word for something without some form of generalization, but that obviously doesn't mean that everything described with that word should be exactly the same. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

Ericaxd
08-08-2013, 08:01 AM
This thread has been fascinating to read. Like many of us here, I've thought about these issues a lot, and one conclusion I've come to is that we oversimplify when we see ourselves as either CD or TG (or TS for that matter.) Each of us lies somewhere along a continuum from the man who dresses for pleasure but insists always on his manhood to the transsexual who dresses to express her true feminine self. I'm personally somewhere in the middle of that line.
What's important here (by here I mean this forum) is that we respect those differences and support one another in this unusual journey.
(To give credit where it's due, I first encountered the idea of a sexual continuum in Jan Morris' book about her own self discovery and transition many years ago. I believe the book was called "Conundrum.")

bobbimo
08-08-2013, 08:14 AM
Freddy!
Wonderful explanation:

"so I dress for practicality. Later, I will crossdress for pleasure. After THAT, the male will no doubt re-appear, to expedite some other inevitable boyish circumstance. Since only clothes are being exchanged, I submit that my particular phenomenon is a form of dressing, and not a wholesale exchange of gender characteristics, thinking, or feeling. I believe I am allowed to do this and still (quite accurately) call myself a crossdresser…"

I have my moments where I spend a lot of extra time on the femme side to achieve something thats not so practical, but something that makes me really enjoy the person looking back at me from the other side of the mirror. Its a high pont to pull the girl out to the surface and enjoy all the sensuous pleasures of the feminine side.
Bobbi

Beverley Sims
08-08-2013, 08:54 AM
Veronica writes,
Whatever the answers, crossdressing is fun, relaxing and a tremendous adventure and experience.

Gale Warning says,
Whatever the answers, crossdressing is fun, relaxing and a tremendous adventure and experience.

Zylia you are thinking too hard.

Frederique,
When I crossdress I never think about gender.
And you say you dress to suit the occasion well what could be better.

It think taken out of context there is only one argument as Veronica says,
crossdressing is fun, relaxing and a tremendous adventure and experience.
It can be an adrenalin rush too and that is what keeps us all healthy.:)

Zylia
08-08-2013, 08:57 AM
But thinking too hard can be fun and relaxing too! Is it OK if I do it while wearing a skirt?

TheMissus
08-08-2013, 10:00 PM
It simply reflects the fact that most are heterosexual, are attracted to and intrigued by the female form and glory in representations of that even if it involves making themselves the pseudo object of that admiration.

Veronica

Wow, so simple yet so insightful. I'm reading this to my H when I get a moment.

Pinky188
08-08-2013, 10:14 PM
Very well put!!! Thank you!!!

Tawne
08-10-2013, 08:45 AM
Or we can say that CD & TG are just names people officially created over time, yet everyone is unique? There must be a million types in between we still haven't classified :)

Dana L
08-10-2013, 09:59 AM
CD, TG or TS, it's like a pool. The CD's are at the shallow end the TS's are at the deep end and the TG's are somewhere in between. We are all enjoying the water, but some are not ready to or don't want to or can't swim.

GaleWarning
08-10-2013, 04:37 PM
Forgive me, Dana, if I misunderstand you. Your analogy seems to suggest that there is something "wrong" with people who don't learn to swim (to use your analogy). If so, you are extremely arrogant and lack understanding of the wide range of reasons why we all cross dress. The pool has no shallow or deep end. It is the same depth everywhere. And we all enjoy swimming, be it the crawl, the breast stroke, the backstroke or the butterfly!!!

Dana L
08-10-2013, 11:23 PM
Forgive me, Dana, if I misunderstand you. Your analogy seems to suggest that there is something "wrong" with people who don't learn to swim (to use your analogy). If so, you are extremely arrogant and lack understanding of the wide range of reasons why we all cross dress. The pool has no shallow or deep end. It is the same depth everywhere. And we all enjoy swimming, be it the crawl, the breast stroke, the backstroke or the butterfly!!!
I never meant there is something wrong with those who can't swim. Those who can't are like me, I would love to but family and physical stature doesn't allow it. Why do people try to read more into everything I say?

Milli Montanari
08-11-2013, 03:31 AM
Dana, I think that's an excellent analogy. I find myself sometimes drifting down towards the deep end and sometimes just happy relaxing in the shallow end.