Sometimes logic holds the key

[jenni_xx]

Ok, so for me, spending a lifetime going through a range of emotions, from accepting myself, hiding myself from others, feeling that what I'm doing is unacceptable, to then feeling that what I'm doing isn't wrong, but right for me, and then emotions whereby I feel that I do accept myself, yet shake like a leaf when out in public, only to the next day feeling completely confident and displaying a "couldn't care less" attitude, only to then go back to feeling ashamed and guilty. I feel like a tightrope is being walked.

The thing for me is that I found it a hell of a lot easier to come out to friends and family as gay, than I did to come out as a crossdresser. For example, telling my mother that I'm gay resulted in an accepting hug, but telling her that I like to crossdress resulted in her pulling back with a discerning look on her face. To this day, I have been able to introduce my partner to my mother, and have my partner accepted by my mother, yet the contents of my wardrobe remain a no-go. I couldn't figure out why that is, so I tried to work out the reason in my own mind - after all, there simply MUST be a reason. So what is it?

To find the answer I decided to look inward towards myself and I how react to people in a social environment. And one reaction shocked me to my very core. It was while I was out one day (en drab) in Camden, North London. I was there with a friend - she knows about my crossdressing, and she's seen me dressed. Yet on this day in Camden, we were walking down the street just outside Stables Market and a cd walked past us. My friend and I looked at eachother. At the same time, there was around 3 young girls (15, 16, 17 years old), who noticed the cd and all nudged eachother and laughed at the cd. There was a silent exchange between myself and my friend, an exchange of looks that was finally broken when my friend said to me "you look better dressed than (s)he does". A compliment to me without doubt, but a compliment that was made at the expense of someone else - someone who themselves had sought the courage to go out in a public place and express themselves the way they wanted to. I responded to my friend's comment, saying something along the lines of "I hope so, because she doesn't even pass" (an awful comment in and of itself). And as soon as the words came out of my mouth, I felt dreadful. I ascribed a status - a social status - to the stigma that still exists around crossdressing. I remember thinking at that precise moment that I wanted to turn around and catch up to the person (the man, the woman, the cd) we had just seen and give her a high five, or any other form of positive support, but I never did. Instead I just took satisfaction out of a comment, from a friend of mine, that built me up at the expense of putting someone else down.

And that's when it struck me. I said earlier about finding the answer "to myself" and about looking inward to myself in order to do so. And the answer that rose to the fore made me feel incredibly uncomfortable. For it was an answer that held, at its very core, a social ideal - a social acceptance - as to who, what, and why, we are. I myself, a crossdresser, reacted negatively towards another crossdresser, based on nothing more than how that crossdresser looked. How that crossdresser presented themselves. My friend did exactly the same. She, in her comment that I look better then (s)he does, inadvertantly ascribed a status to the transgender community - one that at its core value, means that reaction, and more importantly acceptance is dependent upon one very important factor. It's not about the fact that you are a crossdresser that will result in acceptance. It's rather about how well we pass that will result in just how much society as a whole accepts us. If you pass, and pass well, then society deems there to be no problem But if you don't, then it jars with an expectation of the roles that the people in a society are expected to play.

I am left in no doubt that had the CD that we walked passed that day did look like a woman, then no one would have noticed “anything out of the ordinary". And so nothing would have been said. No giggles from a group of girls. No comment from my friend would have been made to me. Even no reaction from me.
And this presents a very real dilemma that we all face. When it becomes a goal, an ideal, that we do pass, that when we present ourselves in public as woman, the goal, the ultimate acceptance is for us never to be recognised for what we actually are. The goal, for many, is to pass. Yet if we all pass, then we will all go unnoticed as people who are transgendered, or cds, of whatever other label you wish to ascribe. Yet if we are never noticed, how can we ever be accepted as part of society?

[Kate Simmons]

My goal is not and has never been to "pass", only to be myself. If we can accept who we are and take ownership of our feelings that's a fantastic accomplishment. We really don't have to try and fulfill anyone else's "standards" as who says they are right anyway? If we are confident in ourselves and who we are that is the important thing. Having fun with it is the icing on the cake.:battingeyelashes::)

[jenni_xx]

Thanks for your reply Kate. In response to your reply, and in the context of my post, I have to ask - In not caring whether you pass or not (that is, not caring in the sense that it's never been your goal, but rather it's been you intent to just be yourself), have you ever had any problems from members of the public in expressing yourself (as is your (and anyone's "right") to do so)?

[Princess Grandpa]

Jenni:

Good for you! It's hard to see something in ourselves that is against our beliefs. You not only saw it but recognized it and then brought it open for discussion to help others. Huzah!

"There are as many different reasons for dressing as there are members" is a phrase I have seen frequently. Can't we find joy in that diversity? If you like to go out enfemme completely presenting 24/7, and she likes to get dressed up once a year when her wife is gone and he likes to go out wearing just a dress, don't we all get the same sense of inner satisfaction? Yes some of us need to release our inner woman because we are miserable being a man and some of us only need to put on a pair of panties to satisfy our inner woman. Some of us maybe don't really have an inner woman but the feel of it all and the naughtiness is too much to resist? We all face many of the same fears and trials. we feel the same joys and triumphs

My sister lives with a developmental disability. When we were children the other kids would torment her endlessly. We all know how cruel kids can be. Because of her disability she still remembers it vividly as if it were yesterday. Shortly after I began working in my mother's residential facility I realized something. These adults with disabilities who were treated so horribly learned that is how you treat "the retards" the vast majority of these adults treat each other much the way the "normal" kids treated them. The higher functioning individuals are exceptionally cruel to those who are lower functioning. Certainly not everyone of them, but then again not every single kid in school picked on my sister either.

We have noticed similar things to the experience you just mentioned within our community. Obviously this does not apply to one and all. Frankly the vast majority of you ladies that I have encountered have been remarkable human beings. Sometimes it seems as though there is a lot of division between the different "types" of ladies here. I have seen threads saying you shouldn't be out there partially dressed. Or I don't know how many times I have seen some post referencing a "trannier than thou" attitude. It doesn't matter whether these allegations are true or not. perception is more important than reality. I just don't understand! How can a community craving acceptance not be completely accepting? How can we expect those outside our community to understand who/what we are when we spend so much time arguing about what it all means.

Now I want everyone to come hug each other and play nice /giggle

Hug
Rita

[jenni_xx]

Hi Princess Grandpa

Your comment regarding the sense of inner satisfaction gets right to the heard of my reasons for creating this thread. I can't thank you enough for mentioning that in your post - and mentioning it so succinctly. To go back to the situation I mentioned in my opening post, I, nor the girl I was with, nor the young girls who giggled, would have had any real comprehension of the inner satisfaction that the CD we all saw had that day. It could well be the case that she noticed the girls giggling at her - who knows, maybe she had experienced that kind of reaction all day while she was out and about. Yet there she still was, walking down a public street, with her head held high, being who she wanted to be, presenting herself as she wanted to do, irrespective of how anyone else felt towards her, or reacted towards her. I've often thought about that, and every single time I have thought about it, my conclusion - the only conclusion - I've come to, is one of pure admiration. It's why I myself look back and despise myself for reacting the way I did upon encountering her. I mean, I heard the girls giggle yet never did a thing. I responded to my friend's comment in a way that made me feel good at the expense of someone else. Yet I could have said something. Certainly to my friend. Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but it's also often a regretful thing. The kind of thing where you look back at a specific moment, and instead of remembering it for what it was, instead think - "I should have said this", or "I should have done that". The time I'm mentioning here - that really is one time where I really do wish I could turn back the clock and react differently.

[Jenny CD]

What a coincidence. When I came out to my mom, she said "I can accept you if you were gay, but this?" Totally shocked me. Long story that I won't repeat on this thread.

As for your CD encounter... You were right to feel guilty about your comment. I mean what do people really say about us when we are out and about and out of ear shot? Your comment, if made to yourself would have been hurtful. It woulda hurt me.

[Princess Grandpa]

I am no better, My wife wants to get out there in public with me in the worst way. "all these years you got to show me off, now it's my turn" she says. I just can't manage it. I so wish I could walk down the street like the sister you mention not caring but I get out there and freak out. Somehow I think if I were passable or prettier it would be easier.

I really hate it when my morals and ethics don't line up with my actions. Yes hindsight is 20/20. Don't beat yourself up too much. Again many of us wouldn't even have realized what we did and a few of us would have felt totally justified saying what you said to your friend all the while grumbling about the teenagers.

Hug
Rita

[jenni_xx]

As for your CD encounter... You were right to feel guilty about your comment. I mean what do people really say about us when we are out and about and out of ear shot? Your comment, if made to yourself would have been hurtful. It woulda hurt me.

You're absolutely right. And I did feel guilty. Even so, I can't help but wonder what WAS going through the mind of the CD we saw that day. That's also a regret - that I can't go back in time and ask her. I like to think that what was going through her mind was something along the lines of "I couldn't care less, I'm happy, and if anyone has a problem with my presence, then it is nothing but their problem". That's what I like to think, because thinking that, and seeing her, just walk on by, not reacting to anything that anyone said or did, just fills me with confidence, and courage, and adopting a similar "carefree attitude". Or maybe her emotions were doing somersaults inside, yet despite that, she still had the courage to just walk on by and hold her head up high. And you know, if THAT was the case, then I will also have more respect and admiration for her.

What troubles me though is how I reacted. And my reaction was born out of a feeling of wanting to be accepted. A group mentality. Even though I myself am a crossdresser, I feel into the trap of excluding my true self in order to feel a part of those around me. Even the girl I was with - an accepting woman - reacted negatively based on nothing more than social presentation. It was a strange moment in all honesty. And one that I regret.

[Kate Simmons]

In answer to your question Jenni, I've had my share o snide remarks and comments from time to time. I either just smile, keep walking or just plain ignore them, their opinion anyway. In my opinion there are a lot of GG's out there who don't "pass" as women either, so unless these straw critics want to ask me more or buy me dinner, I could care less Hon.:)

[TheMissus]

I think passing just removes the situation because no one knows a CD is in their midst. If they did, pass or not, I'm sad to say I think the reactions would be the same.

From a GG (and I guess outsider perspective) I can give a little feel for why your mother reacted as she did - humans fear irrational behaviour and I doubt to most people there's much more irrational than a grown man presenting as a woman. Seriously, it puzzles almost everyone here so imagine what the rest of the world is thinking! (You're insane. Psychopathic. A pervert. You're intentionally misleading people for kicks) That's a couple I've heard over the years.

They're scared - plain and simple, and we all know fear can be dangerous.

Most here don't want to know 'why' they CD and fair enough. But I can't help thinking if this knowledge were readily available to the public that less people would step back in fear and instead think "Ah, there's one of those intriguing men who presents as a woman because of blah blah..."

Knowledge really can be powerful.

Sadly until then, you're likely right about passing being the best option for a quiet life (though I doubt this will placate your mother as she's dealing with her own insecurities as a parent) unless you're born of thick skin and a need to change the world one teenage girl at a time :)

[Veronica27]

The goal, for many, is to pass. Yet if we all pass, then we will all go unnoticed as people who are transgendered, or cds, of whatever other label you wish to ascribe. Yet if we are never noticed, how can we ever be accepted as part of society?

You raise a very interesting point. On a now defunct forum that I used to frequent, there were several threads by crossdressers who confessed to feeling strange, or uncomfortable whenever they encountered another individual on the street, in the mall etc. who was obviously a crossdresser. They felt guilty for having these feelings, especially since they crossdressed themselves. These strangers could be quite passable in most respects, but some little feature gave them away. These feelings would usually drive the person reporting them to bury themselves deeper into the closet because of that guilt. The only answer seemed to be that they had not yet come to terms with the legitimacy of their own crossdressing desires.

Some responders found themselves relating to the general public's sense of discomfort when confronting a crossdresser whenever they were overcome by these feelings. I tended to put it down to the fact that despite all the claims we make about freedom of expression, we are usually influenced more by societal expectations and conformity. Our entire upbringing is a form of brainwashing, and to a not too insignificant extent conformity brings about a certain stability and freedom from unexpected chaos. There are areas of life in which conformity is a necessity such as stop on red, but on the whole the general public has difficulty separating the necessary from the superfluous when it comes to conformity. We tend to expect conformity from everyone, including our self, because that is how we have been brainwashed. However, with respect to ourselves, we recognize the superfluous and approve of nonconformity for our self without much thought about others. We are then startled by seeing the unexpected in others and troubled by the incongruity of our feelings of discomfort at the unexpected when we ourselves are non conformists about the same thing. Do we feel guilty for feeling discomfort or for being a non-conformist?

I don't know how widespread the above observations are now, as this is the first time I have encountered it on this forum. However, it illustrates that being noticed can be difficult for even other crossdressers to accept. Whether it is a hierarchy thing, or being overly sensitive to what our brainwashing tells us looks "silly" and therefore so must we, I do not know. In any event, public acceptance requires self acceptance by the community first. Passing will never achieve that, although for some it must be a part of the overall "thrill" of getting out.

Veronica

[Princess Grandpa]

In my opinion there are a lot of GG's out there who don't "pass" as women either,

My wife and I giggle about this a lot. I will read about something health and beauty related, or maybe fashion. I go ask her about it but she has no clue. She does EVERYTHING we need to not do if we want to pass. Yet nobody stops to wonder if she is GG. Well except when I dress too. I have to assume some assume she is CD too.

"Hey look! Matching fags" overheard walking down Fremont St. /giggle

Hug
Rita

[Beverley Sims]

Yet if we are never noticed, how can we ever be accepted as part of society?
Jenni,
A great closing line to the argument.

[MysticLady]

Yet if we all pass, then we will all go unnoticed as people who are transgendered, or cds, of whatever other label you wish to ascribe. Yet if we are never noticed, how can we ever be accepted as part of society?

Hi Jenni, it is an awful feeling when we become this way. My response to your friend would have been, "at least she has balls to be herself unlike the rest of society". We would expect this from an immature bunch of little girls and boys, but as adults, we should maturing as we move through life. That "peer pressure" sucks and you need to grab it by the neck especially at your most uncomfortable time. Just my thoughts.

[kimdl93]

at a superficial level, and perhaps especially among young adults, the ability to pass and to be seen as attractive are perhaps more important measure of acceptance. Afterall, aren't all young adults, fundamentally judging themselves and other by some standard of "attractiveness". Fortunately, as we get older, if my experience is any indication, the standards actually shift a bit. I can go unnoticed or be read right away, but generally speaking I really do feel quite comfortable in my own skin - so perhaps the long term key to acceptance is accepting oneself.

[Nikki A.]

Interesting discussion so far. As for myself and I am only speaking for me. I don't think you need to beat yourself up for comparing yourself to her. I know I compare myself to the other members, to see what I do better and where I can improve my techinque. and yes, there is a little satisfaction in if I think I can do a "better job in passing".
That said, I know in most cases I don't pass, but I try my best to look as presentable as possible. Those that read me and ask questions I'll answer their questions as honestly as possible. That is how we will finally find acceptance, one person at a time and by those people realizing we have more things in common rather than us being weirdos, or perverts etc.
I think that is why women seem to accept us better than men do in that we have more in common with them, a love of clothing and the feminine spirit. Also there comes a confidence when we accept who we are and people I think feel that confidence.

[Leona]

I think that, fundamentally, the goal to "pass" should be reserved for the fetishists.

The rest of us just need to be accepted as female without passing, and have no problems. I think that, for many of us (I know this is true for me, at least), the desire to "pass" equates to the desire to be accepted as a woman when I feel like I am a woman. I want to be accepted as who I am. In a cisgender heteronormative world, that means "passing".

What if the world wasn't so narrow minded? What if we didn't have to pass to be accepted as women?

But for the fetishists, they need to be seen as GGs, that fantasy has to be play out for them. So they need to do more than pass, they need to be with someone who has imagination. I kind of worry about that, because in my experience, lovers with imagination are few and far between, particularly when you're talking about men.