Am I a real woman?

[FurPus63]

I have a new boyfriend who has been cross-dressing for 45 years. He's lived his life in the transgender world all that time. Yet today he said to me after shaving my face, "wow, it's like kissing a real woman." I got so upset. I replied, "real woman, so what am I a fake woman? Have I been faking it for 15 months (the time I've been living 24/7). He said, "yeah." I got so mad I walked out of the house and have been steaming ever since.

As I was leaving I told him, "I am a real woman. Just because I don't have a vagina, doesn't mean I'm not a real woman. I shouldn't have to educate you. Of all people, you are someone I thought understood."

I heard him yell at me, "you don't have to educate me."

Now I ask you. Am I a real woman??? The theory says that we transsexuals are people who were born with genitals of the opposite sex that we feel and believe ourselves to be on the inside. I'm in transition preparing for surgery, living my life full-time as a woman. I take hormones, put make-up on every day, style my hair, etc..., all the things a woman does to present herself to the world. My skin is soft, I've developed breasts, my legs are smooth as a baby's bottom, I'm developing hips and a butt that's shaping my body more and more with each day that passes. The one thing that's missing is a vagina. So does that mean I'm NOT a real woman?

I felt so insulted and hurt. It's one thing when that kiind of ignorance comes from strangers who don't have a clue about this. It really sucks when it comes from a boyfriend, whom I love so much, and whom is a cross-dresser himself! He has even stated to me that he loves being a female, feels he looks better as a woman, and believes he too was born in the wrong body; but wants to keep his penis. With all that going on with him, and the fact that he attends my support group weekly, where they provide education and information about this whole transgender thing, it blew my mind away that he said something like that to me. It was so insensitive and hurt so bad. I'm almost in tears over it.

So am I a real woman? Are we (transsexuals)??

P.S. I hate being trans!!!!! It sucks so bad being a "chic with a dick!" I'm so sick of it all! It's bad enough I have family members reject me, friends reject me, 90% of society doesn't understand, and now someone who claims to love me doesn't understand either!!! Damn it. This sucks!

[ruthie801]

I'm not a Transexual just a cd but you are what you feel you are. I think your a real woman!!

[Princess Grandpa]

Hug

I'm so sorry for your pain! No clever words. No wise advise.

Hug
Rita

[AllieSF]

As far as I am concerned, yes, you are a real woman. It is better that this happened now because it sounds as if he may have been using you for the last 15 months, which is totally unacceptable. Please try to get over him and this situation as soon as possible. I am sorry it had to happen, but at least it may be an eye opener how some professed "accepters" of who you and we are, really think. Next time you will ask more questions to make sure. Good luck.

[arbon]

I think there a lot of CD's who can only see transsexuals as something like CD's themselves. They can't understand how you are a real woman.

[Wildaboutheels]

To your "new" boyfriend, obviously not. How long have you been dating him? And, he HAS been going with you to your support group WEEKLY?

Unless I misunderstood your post, he wants to keep "his" while you want to get rid of "yours" badly. I think that makes the two of you INcompatible IMO.

It sounds to me like he [probably] WAS treating you very well?

[Aprilrain]

Sounds like a bit of foot in mouth syndrome on your BFs part. We all say stupid things from time to time.

I've been at this (transition) for a couple of years now and I've gone through a lot of changes; physical, emotional and mental. I'm sure there is more to come especially, with SRS around the corner. That being said I still feel "different" than other woman (GGs). I'm sure its the 34 years of male socialization and still not being completely happy with my body etc. etc. I feel like there will always be a "gap" between what I am and what a genetic woman is because of a number of factors. I don't let that stop me from doing what I need to do to live a reasonably happy and fulfilled life. I feel like transition is a bit of a compromise, the question is, is transition worth it to you? Not an easy question to answer.

[Jana]

That was a totally tactless comment from him. In fact, both tactless and unnecessary. We, more than anyone, know we'll never be GGs, no matter how we feel inside, and however many operations we seek to correct the bodies we were born with. There's no need for anyone to remind us of that. Perhaps, you two can have a conversation about this, so that you can explain to him how you feel. If he loves you the way you love him, he'll come around and make amends.

[GG7irish]

If you know who you are on the inside and accept yourself as such then you are what you feel. A woman is considered "whole" so they can have kids etc etc. Well for example I had to have a full hysterectomy years ago, so i no longer can have kids, but that does not make me less a woman. So like I said it is how you feel who you are on the inside.

[MysticLady]

I felt so insulted and hurt. It's one thing when that kiind of ignorance comes from strangers who don't have a clue about this. It really sucks when it comes from a boyfriend, whom I love so much, and whom is a cross-dresser himself! He has even stated to me that he loves being a female, feels he looks better as a woman, and believes he too was born in the wrong body; but wants to keep his penis. With all that going on with him, and the fact that he attends my support group weekly, where they provide education and information about this whole transgender thing, it blew my mind away that he said something like that to me. It was so insensitive and hurt so bad. I'm almost in tears over it.


This sounds like a real woman too me. You may not have a vagina, but your emotional outburst says.........Total Woman

[Kathryn Martin]

Now I ask you. Am I a real woman??? The theory says that we transsexuals are people who were born with genitals of the opposite sex that we feel and believe ourselves to be on the inside. I'm in transition preparing for surgery, living my life full-time as a woman. I take hormones, put make-up on every day, style my hair, etc..., all the things a woman does to present herself to the world. My skin is soft, I've developed breasts, my legs are smooth as a baby's bottom, I'm developing hips and a butt that's shaping my body more and more with each day that passes. The one thing that's missing is a vagina. So does that mean I'm NOT a real woman?

So am I a real woman? Are we (transsexuals)??

P.S. I hate being trans!!!!! It sucks so bad being a "chic with a dick!" I'm so sick of it all! It's bad enough I have family members reject me, friends reject me, 90% of society doesn't understand, and now someone who claims to love me doesn't understand either!!! Damn it. This sucks!

Oh my I have so many questions Paulette. Some of them entirely inappropriate. As it stands right now you are born transsexual. Soft skin, breasts and smooth legs don't make a woman and even a vagina doesn't even if you bought it from a surgeon. Neither does living full time "as a woman". His comment is of course really expressing his boy CD nature isn't it. Isn't CD all about pretending to be a woman even if you express variance from the paradigm?

Tell me what makes you really a woman?

[Angela Campbell]

The thing is, unless you are living it, you cannot understand it.

No one............no one understands it unless you are it. Some try to, some say they do, but deep down they do not really understand it at all. Not even the Doctors and Therapists who are cisgendered. Many will accept us, some even will support us but they cannot understand it.

I know this is a bad attitude to have but it is my experience. Please understand that I do not hate those who do not understand I just accept that they do not and may never understand.

Now the question...Are WE real women? I am. Maybe I will never be complete but I will get as close as I can to having my mind and body match. I have a birth defect. Does a woman born with three hands not qualify as a "real" woman?

It would hurt to hear such a thing from someone you love and trust, but I could forgive as I know he probably cannot understand even if he wanted to.

[KellyJameson]

The doubly sad thing is he was probably trying to pay you a compliment while leaving you feeling insulted.

This whole business of being transsexual and what is a transsexual leaves me feeling very tired sometimes.

Almost from birth we our categorized by gender defined by sex and it is extremely difficult to undo a lifetime of this teaching

I do think that gender identity is a physical manifestation of the self but this physical manifestation happens on the inside so is hidden from view.

Unfortunately we live in a world that labels according to what is seen and in a world like this gender and sex are the same thing.

One of the interesting paradoxes about transitioning is the person changes the body to sexually appear female as the expression of their known gender which further reinforces the cisgender perceptions of the world as gender being created by the body as "sex"

I have wondered if transitioning is a form of surrender to defining gender based on sex for some.

This is why HRT is important as a measurement of how your body and brain responds to female hormones as an indicator of your innate gender.

I have found that I have lost a great deal of my sensitivity to what others think concerning my gender as I have lost my remaining doubts.

Hopefully this is something all transsexuals eventually experience otherwise you continue to be repeatedly victimized by their labels and attitudes.

[I Am Paula]

My wife thinks I'm a man that dresses funny, and male me is coming back sometime.
Strangers see some kind of cross/trans/mess.
GG's accept me in their inner circle, but don't think of me as a real woman.
My sister, and niece only see 100% woman. I'm as real to them as they are.
My mother has a son who is changing sex, but still her son.
My Drs. and therapist see me as a transsexual woman.
My friends think it must be a bundle of laughs to be transsexual, and growing boobs. Then I tell them about the effects of strong anti-androgens. They shut up fast.

I know that I am a woman... My dick does not make that any less so.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Paulette;

It sounds like your new bf does need an education, at least on when to keep his mouth shut. I equate that kind of a question in the same category of when a woman asks " Do I look fat in this? ", there is ONLY one right answer, any deviation fron the correct answer can only spell trouble.


From his reply it can mean only one think he disrespects you as a woman and considers you less then what you are as a person.

[MysticLady]

Now the question...Are WE real women? I am. Maybe I will never be complete but I will get as close as I can to having my mind and body match. I have a birth defect. Does a woman born with three hands not qualify as a "real" woman?


I believe so. If you feel that you are a woman at heart, then you are a woman.



Hopefully this is something all transsexuals eventually experience otherwise you continue to be repeatedly victimized by their labels and attitudes.

Kelly, if we are all women at conception, then we are women. The difference is that there were added features without the added (mentality?) for a lack of a better word. I believe that is why some of us call the added features a deformity.



I know that I am a woman... My dick does not make that any less so.

Exactly. In my case, my dick came with the added (mentality?) for it. But, since I crossdress and enjoy it at times, I suspect that I have both mentalities but the body of a man. if that makes any sense. I call these my essences and I'm fluid between them.

[Gerrijerry]

yes you are a real woman. Only another person who is going thru what you are can understand what you are feeling. Many Trans. go thru the same thing with someone saying something so stupid along the way.
All your feelings are that of a woman not a male. especially with SRS coming. You are easy to be hurt by people who just don't get it.
What you need to do is understand this is for you. This is your life you are correcting.
As for your boy friend being a CD is about the clothes the high they get is from playing dress up. Nothing wrong with that but, It is not that way for you, the clothes has nothing to do with your inner feelings.
So smile understand and realize he will never get it. Support is needed thru this intense period I hope you are getting it. From your counselor or others. They also don't have to understand just support you in what you are doing and feeling. As my wife told me, it is not a game.

[MatildaJ.]

You should understand that GG women go through this too. When someone is a tomboy, or feels ugly or awkward, or has a mastectomy, or a hysterectomy, or a really bad hair day, or if they choose work over kids, or if all their friends are married but they're single, or they just got divorced... women-born-female still go through this kind of insecurity about being judged not enough of a woman.

The truth is none of us will ever be "woman" enough to please the whole world. But you're woman enough for yourself -- that's all that matters.

As for your boyfriend, I guess I'm confused. Does he see himself as your "boyfriend," even though you say: "he loves being a female...and believes he too was born in the wrong body." Do you think he'd rather you referred to him with female pronouns, etc? Sounds like it's time for a serious discussion between the two of you, about how you each see yourselves, and each other, and what your future is together. Maybe in front of a counselor, if it's hard for you to speak frankly about these issues without getting into a fight.

[Princess Grandpa]

The thing is, unless you are living it, you cannot understand it.

This is the crux of it. We can empathize we can support and accept but we can't ever truly understand.

Hug
Rita

[Angela Campbell]

You should understand that GG women go through this too. When someone is a tomboy, or feels ugly or awkward, or has a mastectomy, or a hysterectomy, or a really bad hair day, or if they choose work over kids, or if all their friends are married but they're single, or they just got divorced... women-born-female still go through this kind of insecurity about being judged not enough of a woman.

The truth is none of us will ever be "woman" enough to please the whole world. But you're woman enough for yourself -- that's all that matters.



The difference is what you are talking about is a feeling of insecurity where you feel bad about yourself, not where others do not accept you. Internal as opposed to external. No one tells a woman who had a hysterectomy they are now not a real woman, or if they get divorced or never married. This is not about insecurity but about a SO who has no respect for his partner.

No....... women-born-females do not go through this. Not even close. This is not a bad hair day.

As I said, unless you live in it you cannot understand.

[MatildaJ.]

I don't want to compete about who has it worse, but certainly people say all sorts of thoughtless, unkind things to women-born-female too (and I'm sure women say their share of thoughtless, unkind things as well). It's not all in our heads.

[ErinSassyPants]

I take hormones, put make-up on every day, style my hair, etc..., all the things a woman does to present herself to the world. My skin is soft, I've developed breasts, my legs are smooth as a baby's bottom, I'm developing hips and a butt that's shaping my body more and more with each day that passes. The one thing that's missing is a vagina. So does that mean I'm NOT a real woman?

FurPus63, All of that is irrelevant. Soft skin, breasts, smooth legs, genitals they are all irrelevant to being a woman. You are a real women if you are. That's it. You can be a "real woman" with a penis, no breasts, hair everywhere and skin like sand paper. If you love having soft skin etc, then wonderful do it for you and enjoy it. But it does not make you a woman and not doing enough of it doesn't take back your woman card. If you looked inside your heart and soul and found a woman then you are a real woman. You don't have to earn it or live up to it.


No one tells a woman who had a hysterectomy they are now not a real woman, or if they get divorced or never married.


As I said, unless you live in it you cannot understand.

I absolutely agree that unless you live it you will never understand it the way someone who has lived it does. This also means that I can tell you quite clearly that you are wrong about what people say to GGs about being a women. GGs are absolutely told that they are not "real women" by other people for many reasons.

Is it the same thing? No, but I think Jess's point was not that its the exact same thing but that society judges us all, that this is a situation that is closer to a GG situation than most people who haven't lived it can know.

[bas1985]

I think that the expression "real woman" is an oxymoron.

Just like a "real red", which is the real red? Or a real "republican"? Or a real Ferrari? or a real "Italian" pizza (or coffee?).

they are simple concepts.

Probably if I came to one of yours "Italian restaurants" I will say: "NO! no way! this is not REAL Italian food"

Who cares? For you it's Italian enough and that is important.

I suppose that half of the difficulty of TS arises from the fact that we give too much attention to the outside, either our body, and also of the judgements of others on our bodies. Of course we must give a sort of "suspension of disbelief", strong enough to at least a some degree (so HRT is OK), but... the rest?

Is the "real woman" a sister of the "fantasy woman"? Maybe... maybe the a thought in our mind can be spelled in this way "I would be a real woman if I looked like that", because X will see me as "real".

But TS cannot be brought outside. It is an inner state.

[Eryn]

Two questions:

1. When he said what he did, did he do so to intentionally cause you distress?

2. Is this slight, whether intended or unintended, worth destroying your relationship over?

Forgiveness is the glue that holds relationships together. There will always be times when people misspeak or say something without considering all the ramifications. Is this relationship worth gluing back together? The choice is yours.

[Kelly DeWinter]

I don't want to compete about who has it worse, but certainly people say all sorts of thoughtless, unkind things to women-born-female too (and I'm sure women say their share of thoughtless, unkind things as well). It's not all in our heads.

spot on, people speak without thinking, I wonder how many arguments can be avoided by just pausing before speaking ?

[Sara Jessica]

FurPus63, All of that is irrelevant. Soft skin, breasts, smooth legs, genitals they are all irrelevant to being a woman. You are a real women if you are. That's it. You can be a "real woman" with a penis, no breasts, hair everywhere and skin like sand paper. If you love having soft skin etc, then wonderful do it for you and enjoy it. But it does not make you a woman and not doing enough of it doesn't take back your woman card. If you looked inside your heart and soul and found a woman then you are a real woman. You don't have to earn it or live up to it.

Bless you Erin. Although I've been saying something similar, there are those (most?) in this section who will categorically disagree with you. I can't even punch my TS card in this section, let alone a woman card, despite what is in my heart & soul at the core of my very being...present during every waking moment since I became self-aware at a very young age. Regardless, I don't believe OP will have such an issue given she's 24/7, on HRT, etc.

By your measure Erin, OP is a woman and her BF said something very insensitive. I think his being CD is kind of irrelevant other than the fact that perhaps he should have known better. Or should he??? How would he know any of the nuance of how we feel in our hearts if he hasn't been educated in such things. That's really no different than any other Muggle out there. And it's really no different from the ignorance within our own community that grants trans and/or woman status based on transition without consideration of anything else in the person's situation.

[Michelle.M]

Wow, I scarcely know where to begin! This whole episode is just wrong in so many ways.

First, the comments others have made here that being a woman has nothing to do with body parts or putting on makeup, soft skin, wardrobe, etc are spot on.

In her book "Whipping Girl" Julia Serano makes a succinct point about being a woman, and in short it goes like this:

- I perceive myself to be a woman

- I live as a woman

- Others perceive me to be a woman (implied here is that I am regarded and treated accordingly)

You get to define the details of what each of these things mean, and there's nothing here about conforming to standards of dress and behavior (although doing so often helps to minimize questions).

So, the answer to your question is "Yes".


I think there a lot of CD's who can only see transsexuals as something like CD's themselves. They can't understand how you are a real woman.

Not just CDs but everyone has a tendency to transfer our own prejudices and standards on to others. The more evolved among us have acquired techniques to overcome that. Your boyfriend has not. But I think Arbon's comment should be taken seriously. And until the BF gets his act together then Yes, you DO need to educate him.

But here's the bad news. He seems to be uneducable, so I am afraid that you may be already at the "keep him or dump him" stage of the relationship.

Someone once told me that how you express yourself in times of stress, crisis or danger reveals who you really are inside. If that's true then he has revealed something about himself that you really don't need in your life.

[MysticLady]

If you looked inside your heart and soul and found a woman then you are a real woman. You don't have to earn it or live up to it.

Erin, I am very impressed with your thoughts. Will you be my friend?:D

[bas1985]

the whole thread reminds me of the duck test

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test

Of course the inner is important, when we match at least to some degree the inner with the outer... well, we're done.

We are duc... ehm, women.

[FurPus63]

Forgiveness is the glue that holds relationships together. There will always be times when people misspeak or say something without considering all the ramifications. Is this relationship worth gluing back together? The choice is yours.

Who said anything about us breaking up or me not being able to forgive him? Of course I forgave him. We are madly in-love with each other and it was easy to do so. I was just hurt at the time and now have come to realize he was trying to give me a compliment.


The doubly sad thing is he was probably trying to pay you a compliment while leaving you feeling insulted.

This is so true and thanks for your imput. After talking to him about it, it was clear he meant it as a compliment. I'm so sensitive right now (on HRT) and was always sensitive to begin with. I like being sensitve though and sometimes it can cause problems that otherwise might not have been an issue. I have to stay in touch with my feelings and own them. So thanks again for what you said here.

[LeaP]

... Isn't CD all about pretending to be a woman even if you express variance from the paradigm? ...

Yes. One way I've seen this summarized is that the difference is transition vs transgression (of gender norms). A transsexual has a drive and desire to transition. A CD, transgender, gender variant person, etc. wants to retain their birth sex and gender identity, but also needs to press the experience and sense of gender transgression.


... You may not have a vagina, but your emotional outburst says.........Total Woman

Wow... That was incredibly sexist. I wonder - Would you say that in a group of "real women"?


I think that the expression "real woman" is an oxymoron.
...
they are simple concepts. ...

I don't know about it being an oxymoron, but I agree that "woman" can be too simple. I can accept it as a shorthand for gender identity, but the term connotes a developed adult female identity. The difficulty here for those still in transition, especially early on, is that such development has yet to take place, despite having lived to adulthood (many years, in my case). There is female identity and some aspects of that dovetail nicely with my adult experience, but other aspects are foreign and will be until (presumably) RLE at the earliest.

[ReineD]

To piggyback onto ErinSassyPants (again :p), I want to share that I miscarried a child 25 years ago. While it was happening, in addition to my abject grief, I felt ashamed. I honestly felt as if I had not fulfilled my role as "a real woman".

Where did this come from? I consider myself to be a feminist, yet at a primal moment in my life I felt as if I hadn't measured up and I had disappointed everyone around me.

We can't discount the power of socialization .. the notion that we must fulfill this or that expectation in order to be a real woman, none of which makes any difference other than the gender that we internally align with. At the same time, like others have said, everyone is judged no matter what gender, we even judge ourselves.

[Angela Campbell]

Wow... That was incredibly sexist. I wonder - Would you say that in a group of "real women"?





I think she just did.............

[LeaP]

@Ellen Yes. Exactly. Yet I would hope Victoria's answer is no ...

[Barbara Ella]

As to the OP. You are a .............. And it is your, and only your decision as to what you put in the blank section. You cannot be true to yourself unless you stand proud and proclaim, which i think you did quite well and convincingly.

Glad you two are back together and a slip of the tongue, and emotional reaction (and emotional does not mean wrong) separate you.

It is all about the internals and the struggle to reconcile with the externals. Which is most important? I guess it is all about balancing, and everyone has a different balance, but the goal is the same, and when someone reaches their point, and can proclaim they are .......... I am happy for them.

I know,and have no doubt that I am female. I put that to my internals, and with HRT, my body chemistry now tells my internals it is female oriented/changing. I have told my wife I will never be a true woman, and that is my balance for my externals to match my internals, and she is happy with that, and i am happy, and for right now I can live with this. I have no idea what my future may bring.

You are woman dear.

Barbara

[Kathryn Martin]

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MysticLady http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3261421#post3261421)
... You may not have a vagina, but your emotional outburst says.........Total Woman








Wow... That was incredibly sexist. I wonder - Would you say that in a group of "real women"?

Really, sexist does not even begin to describe what this is. It's like a misogynist roundhouser (if that is a word). It's like hitting everything in sight with one huge swing. It insults men, women, women with a transsexual history just to name a few. It attaches an incredible value judgement (with huge negative connotations) to women that is so swamped with privilege using the very tools of misogynist behavior. Wow! Nice going there.....

[Inna]

I take hormones, put make-up on every day, style my hair, etc..., all the things a woman does to present herself to the world. My skin is soft, I've developed breasts, my legs are smooth as a baby's bottom, I'm developing hips and a butt that's shaping my body more and more with each day that passes. The one thing that's missing is a vagina. So does that mean I'm NOT a real woman?


question asked million times, and perhaps as hard to answer.

I am known to state my truth as it comes, without much of a buffer, I like it that way, question is, is everyone else as enthusiastic?.......LOL

We are who we are, however, if anyone would take a second to ponder the question at hand, Who is that person I tend to be? In fact, being and doing are intertwined within close weave, inseparable, and to most onlookers, and by that I mean, those who are around us, we are a conglomerate of societal conditioning.

Can someone prepare them selves in the utmost female fashion yet remain male in the scrutinizing eyes of the societal conformity, I say yes!

Never mind that WE feel entirely female within, without, we are, whom onlooking crowd sees us being!

To exude entirety of femaleness takes life time of growing up, assimilation, mimicking, conditioning, as I see it, only few are able to encompass such immense copletness within short period of time, for the rest, the transgender condition, shall remain their truth.

[Juliea661]

Paulette, I'm just a simple CD, yet when I fully dress I feel 100% girl. So, my simple pea brain say that you must then be 1000% girl. And if I may add,I am constantly amazed at the courage that you and others on similar paths exhibit in order to be who you truly are.
I believe we are who and what we think, feel, and present, the rest is just "stuff"...
I can feel your hurt, and I'm soooo sorry you had to suffer it. As you said, I would have expected more from someone who should know better...
Sending you hugs and good wishes, Jules

[gonegirl]

This sounds like a real woman too me. You may not have a vagina, but your emotional outburst says.........Total Woman

OK, I'm just going to come straight out and say it.

Comments like the one above, whether joking or not, add nothing of value to discussions in the TS forum. There are many people here who are dealing with incredibly big transexual issues and they rely on this forum for real-world advice and support. It is disheartening that this small part of the site is trolled by some people who use it like their personal tranny-wanna-be Facebook, posting whatever that comes to mind, seemingly to draw attention and make themselves feel like "one of the girls".

Is it possible that there can be changes made to keep this forum free of the poseurs?

Sincerely,
Simone.

(ducking for cover)

[Rianna Humble]

S1m0ne and the others. In my not so humble opinion, Victoria's words were clumsy and spoken like true misogynist, but were well intentioned.

If you feel that the post was problematic, I would encourage you to ask yourself why you never reported it (please do not derail this thread by answering here).

This forum is not Safe Haven, it is the TS Forum and will remain open for all members to post in within the rules.

As for excluding "poseurs", that is such a subjective criteria as to be totally unworkable even if it were not for my previous sentence. A lot of TS members and a lot of questioning members have been accused here at one time or another of being exactly that - please ask yourself if you would have them excluded as well (again do not answer in this thread).

[Tamara Croft]

I'm pretty sure she meant it as a compliment, some people just take things the wrong way. Have all of you actually read the updated post from the OP? she says the comment her b/f said to her was actually meant as a compliment... and she forgave him for it. Now, that's her b/f who made a horrible comment... she forgave him... one of our members makes a fumbled comment, you all lash out at her... what exactly is the point? There is none, show some love, have forgiveness in your hearts, reach out to people and be kind... you'll love yourself so much better :)

Oh... and stop derailing this thread, or I'ma show you my kinda love... capiche? :D

[LeaP]

On the OP: of course you are a real woman. But your reaction shows just how vulnerable we all can be, how easily it is to be undermined. And most of all, that those who can undermine us the most are those who are the closest.

I'm not going to judge him on a single statement. None of us should be judged on a single statement. It may have been a joke, a matter of emphasis, an unthinking cliché, or any number of other things. The pain comes from tapping into our insecurities. Couple that insecurity with the slightest suggestion that such a comment indicates something sinister in someone's thinking, and there you go.

I believe I might have reacted as you did initially. On reflection, I might be more inclined to view it as a poor attempt at comedy through combining a cultural cliché with some mild sarcasm.

[MysticLady]

(ducking for cover)

:tt: , [-]trouble maker[/-] oops, your wonderful Simone. :heehee:



S1m0ne and the others. In my not so humble opinion, Victoria's words were clumsy and spoken like true misogynist, but were well intentioned.


Thank You Rianna, Interesting though, a misogynist that dresses as a woman:thinking:. Something to think about, I guess.


I'm pretty sure she meant it as a compliment, some people just take things the wrong way.

I did mean it as a compliment. As far as the taking things the wrong way, that does seem to be an issue on this forum. Why, I wonder.( don't answer:heehee:)

[Patty B.]

Yes you are a woman, its whats on the inside that matters no matter what anyone says. Your bf sure put his foot in his mouth sorry you had to hear that it s unpleasant. Just read the book Mirror Image by Nancy Hunt, its an older book, but it may help, amazon has it maybe your local library system and use to kindle it. It is worth the time to read. Hope this helps not just you but anyone else.

[Cheryl123]

You are a woman, Paulette. You've always been one. Even if you could not make a transition, could not transform you body (and millions of transsexuals throughout the world cannot) you would not be any less a woman. I am sorry for your BF's tactless remark. Practicing forgiveness is important, not so much for his sake but for your own. Anger is a poison which will eat you up if you hold on to it. Forgiveness is the only antidote. Sending you love.