Difficulties of dressing , marriage and children [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Jessicajane

08-11-2013, 01:32 AM

This is a long post, and is as much to help me gather my thoughts as it is for people to read and comment.pics at the end are of me getting ready for the gala night

Ok so a lot has been happening in my life recently, some things that are good and positive and some are not…I seem to be stumbling forward in terms of progress but I need to check myself and ask is it too quick or do I make advances and seize the day whilst I can?
I have enlisted the help of a psychologist to assist in this decision making process and execution of it if that is the way I choose to go…..and I fully accept that nobody knows my situation, my marriage, my children as well as I do and therefore I am asking the questions on these massive decisions and subject matters for the purpose of background advise, and to help avoid obvious pitfalls if possible.

My wife has know about my dressing for a few years now, I did not disclose it at the start due to fear , lack of knowledge and the belief that it would go away, this as many will know is a huge mistake and one that has made life a lot harder to deal with (but at the same time has allowed a loving 20 year marriage with 3 beautiful children to develop)
My wife struggles with the concept, she loves me very much, of that I have no doubt, but she finds my dressing an embarrassment and “unnatural”.
What we have achieved to date is a level of re negotiation in our marriage, where I go out dressed to TG meeting parties, shopping etc etc 2 -3 times a month I have a monthly budget (a source of some disagreement as my SO thinks this is wasted money)
She has seen me many times and after a difficult last 2 years where we have both come to terms with the concept that this is not going to go away I persuaded her to come out with me for a gala dinner .
We had a plan that gave her a retreat if the situation got too much but she felt she would handle the situation whatever….
I was therefore somewhat surprised and to be honest disappointed that she did not cope well with the evening, this is to say that I believed she would have made more of an effort.., she wanted me to go ahead in the hotel foyer as she did not want to be seen with me (this hurt tremendously), she turned up and stayed the evening for the event but could not hide her discomfort, I did suggest escorting her back to make use of the fab hotel suit I had booked as a retreat but she wanted to see the evening out…looking back we are all wise in retrospect and I regret asking her to come but I felt it was a required if we were to move forward and she was to find an increased acceptance….

Since that night we had a clear the air talk where I told her of my disappointment and despair for the future, and she in turn told me that she doubted she could ever accept it….things started to look very bleak…and we had a 24 to 48 hr period that I never want to repeat again where I stared in the face the concept of losing all.
Things changed when I went to a pre arranged psychologists appointment with a lady for the first time, she was amazing and coped with what I can only described as a mini breakdown by me on our first meeting…she spoke to me about why Jess now …and explained that I was finally finding myself and that this stage in life was actually normal mental phase where people shed pre conditioning and grew into themselves, for me that involved an acceptance of a fundamental aspect of my being and a shedding of the fears that I had grown up with…she spoke to me about how to discuss the situation with my wife, suggesting she also came to some sessions..(This I very much doubted she would).
Feeling sad but altogether more composed I had a sit down chat with my wife , telling her how important she was to me but that we had to find a way of coping if we were to survive…I asked her how she felt and what I could do to help …
We reconfirmed our desire to make our relationship work and to my surprise she agreed to come to a session with the psychologist…she told me of her troubles accepting what I did and explained that although this was a problem there were some other, very solvable issues that she was struggling with, help at home, not getting out much herself, and we immediately discussed action plans to help address these.
In turn I told her that I wanted to tell the children,(they are 5, 9 and 13) something that has always been off limits, as I wanted a controlled disclosure rather than a nightmare situation where they stumbled across me dressed etc…and we agreed that I would research how to handle this and discuss again before we took action.
So as I now write this I am wondering where from here, to me telling the children is a dread but an absolute requirement as it removes a dirty secret mentality that will only continue as they grow older and keep more irregular hours and therefore be more at risk of finding out…
I look forward to hoping the psychologist will help give my SO some methods for coping , and in time I hope that we can find a level that allows Jessica to live in the family…but this seem a long way off just now…

MadisonL

08-11-2013, 03:01 AM

I hope it turns out well for you. You definitely have some very difficult choices to make. It is great that your wife is coming to psych. appointments with you. That says she is willing to work through it.

Stevie

08-11-2013, 04:48 AM

Telling your children is very difficult. Hope whatever decision you make is for the best. Good luck.

Raychel

08-11-2013, 06:03 AM

Sorry for your troubles. This can be a very tough thing, especially if
your wife is not accepting, I that you and your wife can come to a happy
agreement and when it does come time to tell your children, I hope it goes well for you.

Stephy

08-11-2013, 06:19 AM

I am in a similar situation to you. I have a wonderful wife - we have been married for 16 years and have 2 boys aged 13 and 11. My wife knows and lets me dress in private in our bedroom, but does not want the children to know. She has also agreed to let me go to a group meeting once a month.

My wife also does not have enough of a social life outside of the family and has a lot on her plate working and looking after the children. I try to help her as much as I can around the house (without taking over) and have suggested that we go out more as a couple.

It sounds like you have a good relationship with good communication. Keep that communication going, respect her wishes but express your feelings clearly and perhaps with time she will allow more freedom and let the family share in the way you express yourself.

Hugs
Steffi

kimdl93

08-11-2013, 07:09 AM

Your doing the best you can as is your wife. Just keep taking these steps thoughtfully. While there's no guarantee, I think the effort your both putting into the process is commendable

BLUE ORCHID

08-11-2013, 07:11 AM

Hi Jessica, first of all that is a very pretty dress you have on, As for telling the kids I never wanted to burden my girls
who are in their mid 40s' now.

Jenniferathome

08-11-2013, 10:43 AM

You are not telling your children for them, but for you. It's a mistake. They don't need to know. Unless you plan to be cross dressing at home regularly, it simply is not needed to tell them. Children can adapt, but why force this on them if they do not need to live with it daily. Don't do it. It WILL change your relationship with them.

Beverley Sims

08-11-2013, 11:16 AM

I would not tell the children.
It is a deal between your wife and yourself.
I think it is a selfish attitude to tell the children so as you can dress around the house with them there.
That is not going to happen if they do not accept you.
You only need to keep in the wardrobe for another 10 or 12 years and then the house will be yours.
Think about it.
Don't tell the children, enjoy life with them. Time with them is too short.
I assume they think you are a great father. :)

Tina B.

08-11-2013, 11:53 AM

My kids are in their mid forty's and I've never felt there was any need to tell them, what's in it for them?
They have an image of father, why mess with that just to make myself feel better, I'd rather they feel better, and I don't think they really want to know a thing like that about dad.

docrobbysherry

08-11-2013, 12:07 PM

I buried my mom yesterday, Jessica. She has no more problems.

The rest of us ALL have problems of one sort or another. Whether or not we r involved with dressing! Just do the best u can! I wish u well!

MatildaJ.

08-11-2013, 01:49 PM

Do you know what your wife means when she says she doubted she could ever accept it? Does that mean that she will leave if you continue to dress at all? Does it mean she will leave if you continue to dress in front of her? Does it mean she expects to stay, but prefers you to try to keep it away from the children? Does it mean she prefers you in male clothes for dates but will occasionally go out with you in public?

She doesn't get to tell you how to dress or who to be, but she is entitled to her feelings and she is entitled to leave if living with you becomes unbearable for her. I was happy to read this in your post:

there were some other, very solvable issues that she was struggling with, help at home, not getting out much herself, and we immediately discussed action plans to help address these.

When a relationship brings more pain than pleasure, most people leave. If you know you are going to cause X amount of pain by crossdressing when she finds you unattractive that way, then you can bring things back into balance by increasing the amount of pleasure she has in the marriage. I'm glad to read that the two of you are thinking about improving that aspect of things.

Brooklyn

08-11-2013, 03:15 PM

I agree with not telling children who are going through adolescence; they have enough to deal with. Young children, however, can adapt to it fairly easily. I have not hidden things from my kids; they know where all the wigs are and we even watch Drag Race together. I hope you can work things out with your SO; there is NOTHING unnatural or harmful about wanting to feel feminine and pretty every once in a while. And if dressing makes you a happier spouse, a few outfits are a bargain compared to attorneys.

Rogina B

08-11-2013, 03:47 PM

Because I only have a daughter,who is 11,I can say that for me,creating an accepting household was essential.Through design,I am able to live a very satisfying gender fluid lifestyle.My daughter has known since age 5,and goes out and about with her "Aunt Rogina"[in case we bump into anyone from her school].I am her Dad in her mind,no matter how I am dressed. I am very happy to have created acceptance as early as I did.

giuseppina

08-11-2013, 07:15 PM

... Children can adapt, but why force this on them if they do not need to live with it daily. Don't do it. It WILL change your relationship with them.

Does it have to change the relationship for the worse? I think not.

While every mother and father has to make their own choice, and I agree that isn't always the best thing, Dad's crossdressing can be used as a teaching moment: tolerance for other people's lifestyle that do not harm anyone. There are certain groups that would do well to understand this.

Education starts at home.

Maria 60

08-11-2013, 10:12 PM

I am very sorry to hear about the problems you are having, I don't know you or your wife enough to give you advice but I can tell you how I feel or live with some of the same problems. My heart bleeds every time I tell my kids to be honest that they can tell us anything and no matter how bad there should be no secrets, as a family we can always work it out. Mean while maybe I should take my own advice. I sometimes feel I put a lot of pressure on my wife, I am never happy, its human nature we are never happy we always want more. She was OK with the dressing from the start, she is very supportive, she buys me what ever I want and when she will always try to make time for Maria, but still with all that still at times I want more and then at times I will stop and look back and think that I was selfish, only thinking of myself when she is such a giving and caring person and thinks about me and her family before herself, so seeing the way she is I myself follow suit and try to do the same and with this it has made me a better person now, instead of thinking of my needs only I try to think how it could work out for the family. I am not going to lie I do get frustrated, I want more time to dress, I do want to take bigger steps but I used I a lot in the this sentence and I am not the only one in this family. I hope I helped you out a little and hope things work out for you. At the end of the day you should know what's the best thing for you and your family.

AllieSF

08-11-2013, 10:25 PM

Does it have to change the relationship for the worse? I think not.

While every mother and father has to make their own choice, and I agree that isn't always the best thing, Dad's crossdressing can be used as a teaching moment: tolerance for other people's lifestyle that do not harm anyone. There are certain groups that would do well to understand this.

Education starts at home.

I agree with you. I am not saying that everyone should just up and tell the kids, but there are good things to be gained and taught by doing so in the right family environment. It will definitely not work for all. Just like the if, when and how decision to tell an SO, the only one who can make that decision is the decider after weighing all the pros and cons. There have been some very good examples of parents who have been upfront and honest with their children from a young age, and have had good results.

Jenniferathome

08-11-2013, 10:39 PM

Does it have to change the relationship for the worse? I think not.

While every mother and father has to make their own choice, and I agree that isn't always the best thing, Dad's crossdressing can be used as a teaching moment: tolerance for other people's lifestyle that do not harm anyone. There are certain groups that would do well to understand this.

Education starts at home.

It will CHANGE the relationship. Certainly not for the better. Will it be worse? I don't know. But the key point is that it will change. Dad won't be the same person in the children's eyes. That is certain. The bigger issue is WHY. Do they need to know? If so, why? Is it for their peace of mind or the parents? As I noted, kids can adapt but why make them adapt? If one is living openly as a cross dresser, telling makes sense. The OP clearly indicated that is not the case.

TheMissus

08-11-2013, 10:46 PM

I'm not a fan of involving kids if it's not a lifestyle. Kids are selfish creatures and really prefer not to know too much of their parents lives - apparently it's about our lives revolving around them, or at least my kids would have you believe this, lol. If your CDing is limited to occasional private sessions I'd leave it under wraps. If you see yourself dressing in daily life you really have no choice but to tell.

From what you've written here though, I suspect pushing much further with your dressing will push your wife away. She's doing her best but I'd bet, like many of us, on some primal level watching you slowly feminise yourself is permanently destroying a part of her attraction to you that is almost impossible to get back. Believe me, I've talked to many a wife who wanted to but they just couldn't make it happen. This is the reality of this situation and there's not much anyone can do. She, too, has internal needs that may not be met anymore if you change who are.

Either way, I wish you both luck.

Rachelakld

08-11-2013, 10:56 PM

My children were the same age when I first started wearing leggings around the house, luckily they were all girls.
I started wearing black cotton leggings in winter, saying how nice, comfortable and warm they were, they agreed.
When spring came, I started wearing my favourite shiny leggings, say that I have a liking for shiny stuff.
when summer came, I was in shiny leggings and a shoe string deep v neck.
In the fall I explained to them how beautiful and lucky females were, and how much I sometimes wished I could be a women.
After their initial shock that I might prefer to bed men, they soon realised my desire was for their mother, they assumed I was just a little crazy but still enjoyed clothes shopping with me and know how much I love them

TheMissus

08-11-2013, 11:21 PM

It will CHANGE the relationship. Certainly not for the better. Will it be worse? I don't know. But the key point is that it will change. Dad won't be the same person in the children's eyes. That is certain. The bigger issue is WHY. Do they need to know? If so, why? Is it for their peace of mind or the parents? As I noted, kids can adapt but why make them adapt? If one is living openly as a cross dresser, telling makes sense. The OP clearly indicated that is not the case.

Jennifer, I agree with you as part of me gets suspicious when an occasional CD wants to tell the kids. Does he just want more time to indulge without worrying about interruption? Can he dress more once they know? These are incredibly selfish reasons to tilt the worldview of your children off its axis. Our job is to PROTECT our children from the complexities of adult life - not involve them in it.

Lifestyle dressing - tell them.

Occasional dressing - think very carefully about motive and if it all comes back to benefiting YOU, then don't. They can learn tolerance in a hundred little ways every single day - that's called PARENTING.

docrobbysherry

08-12-2013, 01:06 AM

Jennifer, I agree with you as part of me gets suspicious when an occasional CD wants to tell the kids. Does he just want more time to indulge without worrying about interruption? Can he dress more once they know? These are incredibly selfish reasons to tilt the worldview of your children off its axis. Our job is to PROTECT our children from the complexities of adult life - not involve them in it.

Lifestyle dressing - tell them.

Occasional dressing - think very carefully about motive and if it all comes back to benefiting YOU, then don't. They can learn tolerance in a hundred little ways every single day - that's called PARENTING.
I recently weighed the option of telling my teen daughter against the risk of getting caught! Which I almost was several times.

I decided telling her and going along with her wishes would be best for both of us. She's NOT down with my CDing at all. So, we r in a DADT arrangement now.

Each dresser has their own unique situation and should weigh their options themselves!

Jessicajane

08-12-2013, 07:51 AM

Firstly I wish to thank everyone who has taking the time to read and particularly those who have commented on my post.
The purpose of the post was to help me consider the issues and weigh up pros and cons that people have raised in addition to those I have already considered myself.
As a parent I understand that the decisions we make are not always the correct ones and that all we can do is enter into them with the best of intentions and with an honesty of heart.
I love and value my relationship with my children greatly and have no intentions of rushing in to a decision to “share my world of cross dressing”, I do however need to consider a workable solution where all in our family unit, are able to live and co exist.
My motivations for possible disclosure do not rest in making my life easier to dress as much as removing risk and the detrimental effects of secrets and lies within a family unit.
Of all the issues that I have discussed with my wife relating to my dressing, the secrecy and failure to disclose has caused the most pain. Obviously there are massive differences between a spouse and children in these matters, but if I am to have learnt anything from past mistakes it is the power to cause hurt and distress through secrecy however well intentioned or meant.
I have accepted that my dressing is part of life that is not going to go away and whilst I am determined that to the best of my abilities I do not want this to bring about unhappiness to others I also have a right and a responsibility to allow myself to be me and to find happiness.
I give all I can to the family unit, love and care for each member and work as hard as is possible to help provide and contribute to the overall family wellbeing, part of this responsibility is maintaining my own sanity and happiness and whilst I will always consider and make appropriate efforts to avoid causing undue stress I also have to function as a person and Jess is part of that equation.
As the children grow up they are and will increasingly keep irregular hours, bring friends home and have always been able to walk about the house with no “restricted “ areas, indeed it is quite conceivable that the eldest two already know of the clothes in the wardrobe . I am not looking to stop this from happening but absolutely would prefer a controlled disclosure to the nightmare scenario of being confronted and outed unexpectedly.
I am also aware that the current situation of quickly closing down face-book or the computer when communicating with friends or when writing already articles for our club newsletter, along with rapid and erratic attempts to cover up shaved legs or painted toe nails etc does not go unnoticed by intelligent young minds and indeed gives the impression of discomfort, shame and deceit.
The one thing I remember from my formative years was the hiding , the covering up, the feeling of guilt, many reading this will know and understand this and the angst it causes….part of my responsibility as a parent is to have an environment and a relationship where the children can approach me or my wife over any issue under the sun with the confidence that we are non judgemental , supportive where possible and open to diversity.
For the time being I am concentrating my efforts on stabilising the relationship with my wife and when this has been achieved I will re consider a joint approach to disclosure in a controlled manner supported by the advise/backup of a trained psychologist.

Ellie52

08-12-2013, 07:57 AM

Personally I dont agree with telling the children. I think as CD's we are a selfish bunch. Its all about us. I think the family value is more important than anything. Unless you want to transition CD'ing is just clothes and a wig. In all honesty its one step up from fancy dress. This isnt meant to be derogatory but is how I see it. If it came to loosing my wife and kids ( a very real worry for lots of people) over the clothes I would grab the bin bags. Luckily I have SO approval but I dont want my 20yr old to know as I would hate to loose his respect. This is a selfish thing again as its about ME not wanting too loose HIS respect. Put things in perspective prior to doing anything drastic as once the genie is out of the bottle you'll never get it back in again.
It is possible the kids will be fine but what about their friends? Then there are the neighbours. Please keep this between you and your wife and enjoy what you have. Unfortunately, human nature is to always to want more, and we keep pushing boundaries until the whole thing comes crashing down. Im sorry if this post has offended anyone but it is purely my opinion only and applies only to me (Being selfish again).I sincerely hope everything works out ok for you...Love Ellie

suchacutie

08-12-2013, 08:15 AM

My concern about disclosure to the children is that you will be overwhelmed with issues and your life will spiral out of control. Solidify things with your wife first. If she is negative at the same time that you are introducing transgenderism to your children without her support it could be a bit of a mess.

Also, we keep many things from our children that really aren't their business. Think TMI! They really don't need to know and your wife might feel better about the situation if it stays between the two of you, at least for a while.

Lorileah

08-12-2013, 10:50 AM

It will CHANGE the relationship. Certainly not for the better. Will it be worse? I don't know. you don't know how it will change it. It may make it better as the others see that being honest in the right thing. Or that the OP is happier and thus the family is happier. there are only three possible outcomes. If it doesn't get worse it has to remain static or get better. You cannot say "certainly" how it come out. Anytime you give information, the dynamics of everything changes....sort of the old if...then effect. Not telling changes the dynamic in that it allows the flow to go down a certain path, one that may not be the best one

MatildaJ.

08-12-2013, 11:23 AM

Of all the issues that I have discussed with my wife relating to my dressing, the secrecy and failure to disclose has caused the most pain. Obviously there are massive differences between a spouse and children in these matters, but if I am to have learnt anything from past mistakes it is the power to cause hurt and distress through secrecy however well intentioned or meant.

I find that confusing. In our culture, a wife feels entitled to full intimacy with her husband and no secrets. But we don't expect that same arrangement with our children. Indeed, if you left the door wide open for your children to wander in while you have sex with your wife, we would all be shocked. Sexual matters are kept private from our children in our society, and children don't grow up feeling aggrieved that this was kept from them. If you have teens, then they already understand the desire for privacy, both on the computer and in the bedroom. I think having a family conversation about privacy would be more reasonable than telling children about a fetish for crossdressing (or for wearing diapers, or bondage gear, or anything else that adults do in private).

As for people for whom this is not about sex but rather about identity, I think the common wisdom is to tell younger children about the real you, the woman you are becoming. But I believe people say that if you've kept it to yourself until your children are reaching their own puberty, then it's best to try to delay your own transition until they are out of the house. They have enough to deal with with their own changing bodies, and don't need to deal with you going through MtF puberty at the same time.

Jessica, in your case, it sounds like (at least for now), you see Jessica as just an occasional visitor, not as the real face you will present to the world full-time. If that's the case, then I don't see the need to tell your children. It's true they may stumble on it, just as children may stumble on other evidence of their parents' sex lives. Normally, the children just try to forget it as soon as possible, and don't feel betrayed that they weren't given more information about their parents' sex lives ahead of time. Just my opinion.

Jenniferathome

08-12-2013, 12:14 PM

you don't know how it will change it.. ...

Actually, I do know. The reason is simple and straight forward: The image of "Dad," the protector, the strong one, the male archetype will be and has to be diminished. That role can not fit with "cross dresser" to a kid. It just can't. Kids are not equipped to objectively handle that information. So, the relationship is not better for disclosure. As I have written many times, kids are adaptable and they can get over it/deal with it but the dynamic of that relationship is forever changed and not in a positive way. Dad can still be "dad" but he will be so in a lessor form. Dad can still have a loving relationship with the kids, but it will be a different one.

I think that many cross dressers want so badly for cross dressing to be "normal" when it is not. (And for anyone reading this particular post, let's not argue about what normal is). For me, disclosure always comes down to WHY. Are you disclosing for you or for them? You owe it to your spouse to disclose and that's where it ends. You don't have a partnership with your kids as you do your spouse. You are a parent to your kids.

StacyPump

08-12-2013, 01:47 PM

Jess, thanks so much for sharing this personal information with us. You have opened the door for discussion on a very important and very sensitive topic. I am learning a lot!

I don't think you have shared with us what your crossdressing goals are. Do you want to transiton to female? Do you want to progress to being a full-time or most-of-the-time dresser? Or are you content being a part-timer, once-in-a-whiler? Are you planning or hoping to be open and out to the world, in addition to being open to your family.

I am just curious because it sounds like it may be relevant to the discussion. It is also of personal interest to me, in terms of how I might decide to handle this with my own family.

Thanks again for sharing, and I wish you the very best in this journey.

Regards,
StacyP.

Polly R

08-12-2013, 01:56 PM

Personally I don't agree with telling the children. I think as CD's we are a selfish bunch. Its all about us. I think the family value is more important than anything. Unless you want to transition CD'ing is just clothes and a wig. In all honesty its one step up from fancy dress. This isn't meant to be derogatory but is how I see it. If it came to loosing my wife and kids (a very real worry for lots of people) over the clothes I would grab the bin bags. Luckily I have SO approval but I don't want my 20 yr old to know as I would hate to loose his respect. This is a selfish thing again as its about ME not wanting too loose HIS respect. Put things in perspective prior to doing anything drastic as once the genie is out of the bottle you'll never get it back in again.
It is possible the kids will be fine but what about their friends? Then there are the neighbours. Please keep this between you and your wife and enjoy what you have. Unfortunately, human nature is to always to want more, and we keep pushing boundaries until the whole thing comes crashing down. Im sorry if this post has offended anyone but it is purely my opinion only and applies only to me (Being selfish again).I sincerely hope everything works out OK for you...Love Ellie

Jessica

I'm just a straight CDer of close to 40 years who doesn't want to go any further than looking like a reasonably classy lady every now and then.

To me, Ellie has hit the nail on the head. Unless you were wanting to transition, DON'T tell. Even if you did want to transition, I feel it would be a very difficult call. I know several who've gone the whole way and have lost everything and they now live quite sad lives having lost their families. (And I've heard and read about straight CDers who've lost everything by revealing their father's little secret to their children)

I have grown up children with a grandchild from each. I have a sneaking suspicion that at least one of the children has an idea that Dad may not be quite 'normal' but I wouldn't want to confirm it for the reasons Ellie states.

My wife is OK'ish with me CD'ing but I try not to push it. Yes, I'd like to perhaps dress a bit more often - don't we all who are afflicted! I'm allowed to go out to my local CD'ers club if I want but at the moment, they've lost their usual meeting place and meet at a house some distance away so I'm a bit stuck with having to dress at home. As I said, I don't like pushing it although my wife would prefer I be a bit more honest and actually dress with her around rather than if she is not around.

So, that's my perspective... I wish you luck in coming to a decision. Sorry I can't be more helpful than that but be VERY careful in coming to a decision.

xx Polly

Rogina B

08-12-2013, 03:38 PM

In my earlier post I stated that my 11 yr old daughter has known since age 5 and is quite comfortable going anywhere with me.I live a gender fluid life that brings me satisfaction from doing so. I do not feel that my daughter has to "have a macho image in her head of what "Dad,the Protector" should look like.To know that they are loved and their well being is looked after is most important.We have progressed from slaying dragons to protect our families to more sensible forms of protection through education and good parenting. Every household operates differently,but acceptance of diversity begins at home.

Lorileah

08-12-2013, 03:40 PM

Actually, I do know. The reason is simple and straight forward: The image of "Dad," the protector, the strong one, the male archetype will be and has to be diminished. That role can not fit with "cross dresser" to a kid. It just can't. Kids are not equipped to objectively handle that information. So, the relationship is not better for disclosure. As I have written many times, kids are adaptable and they can get over it/deal with it but the dynamic of that relationship is forever changed and not in a positive way. Dad can still be "dad" but he will be so in a lessor form. Dad can still have a loving relationship with the kids, but it will be a different one. Do you realize what that says about you and how you view stereotypes? (Lesser) in the eyes of the children, the "archetype" meaning superior, "diminished". All say that somehow you believe that men are in some way the top of the chain here. You grew up in a male dominated world (patriarchal). But other societies are matriarchal and they survive just fine. You also reinforce the fact that the family unit builds these stereotypes. "Johnny, you can't play with that that is for girls and you don't want to be a girl do you?" Why not? "Because girls are weak, they show emotions and they cannot kill a grizzly bear with their bare hands." Oh OK....Can you think of another reason why boys cannot wear dresses? (society isn't an excuse...remember society once divided races, owned slaves, it still starts wars) Why would it diminish a father to show a side that is more compassionate, less aggressive, has a love for beauty instead of destruction? Why would your children see you as "less"? Because you have instilled the macho attitude into them. I don't get this. How is being or presenting as a female some sort of downgrade?

You don't have a partnership with your kids as you do your spouse. You are a parent to your kids.
and part of parenting isn't teaching your children that certain things, even though they have been reinforced wrongly for generations, are...well wrong? There is a song from years ago (South Pacific) that says "You got to be carefully taught." That goes in two directions. You can choose to teach your children to see others as lesser, you can choose to teach your children that it is OK to see others as "not normal" when they dress differently, walk differently, talk differently. OR you can choose to teach your children that when they get out in the world there are many different paths. That women are equals to men, not subservient or followers.

I know you didn't mean to go in that direction and protecting children is the utmost responsibility for all adults. But you should not do that by categorizing and marginalizing others. If you had taught your children that mommy is just as important to the family as daddy, how would seeing daddy as the same as mommy be a decrease in idealism? The whole idea that wearing certain clothing, making certain gestures, having certain thoughts is one of the main issues with the members of this site. Seeing themselves as being diminished when they dress is why so many cannot express themselves beyond alone time. When "we" (especially those who are on this site looking for support and confirmation) quit seeing females as less or weaker or not equal to, then we can start asking the world for acceptance. otherwise it is just so much wasted motion

AllieSF

08-12-2013, 03:52 PM

Rogina, not having the correlating experience like you do, I was not able to say so wonderfully what you have said. Thanks and I agree totally with your approach. I think many times we do not swim up current because it is not very easy, whether it is for LGBT rights, teaching our kids some of the better lessons in life, or just being ourselves. Life has a way of wearing us down, because it never stops until it is too late for us, i.e. when we die. So, it is sometimes nice to go with that other flow. Like everything in life some people have the talents to do some very difficult things. Therefore, not everyone can successfully do what the other does. I applaud your special parenting talents.

OzSam

08-12-2013, 03:53 PM

Thanks for posting this. It has really helped me clarify in my own mind the pros and cons of telling the kids. Mine are all adults but still living at home. I had expressed a desire to share my secret with my daughter to my wifey, but I can see now that just shares the burden of keeping a secret with another person. I hope you are able to rebuild the bridges with your SO and come out of it with a much stronger relationship.

Ellie52

08-12-2013, 06:56 PM

JessicaJane I would like to ammend my post slightly as I missed what I feel to be an important argument.
Secrets.......
We are by being cross dressers outside the norm dictated by society. This requires we keep our desire secret. Secrets are fine as long as only one person holds it. Since most cd'ers start early (pre puberty) we have a long time to firewall our secret so even under circumstances where we are in less control (drunk, high) we can usually hold the secret tight. Once the secret is shared that firewall has been breached. There used to be a saying, started in world war 2 "loose lips sink ships" and with this in mind the military have a 'need to know policy'. We need exactly the same. Do your kids need to know?
My wife is accepting, but not long ago, she nearly, accidentally let the cat out of the bag. She mentioned to a co worker that I was waiting on the street (for her), and the lady said in his short skirt and stockings! and my wife nearly freaked and muttered something about compression stockings then realised that the lady was talking about me being "on the street" as in a hooker, no malice intended but she nearly said something innapropriate. Its this sort of thing we have to be careful of and the more people who know the risk of someone mentioning something goes up exponentionally. Also the people who know havent had time to build the required firewall so watch out at parties where others who share your secret are drinking. Again, loose lips....
Imagine telling your 5yr old your secret, and he goes to kindergarden and draws a picture of Daddy in a dress, then the teacher tells him (or her) that Daddy doesnt wear a dress, you can imagine the rest....
Teenagers are very prone to being emotional and have outburts so telling a teenager your secret is very dangerous as there is a high liklihood that out of innocence, malice or any other emotion your secret could be plastered on facebook or pictures on instagram.... Very dangerous.
Please Please Please be very careful. The risks involved are huge and for what? Your children, when grown will want their own privacy as they should be allowed to have, so whats wrong with you keeping yours.......Getting off the bandwagon now......Ellie

Sonya

08-12-2013, 08:17 PM

explained that I was finally finding myself and that this stage in life was actually normal mental phase where people shed pre conditioning and grew into themselves, for me that involved an acceptance of a fundamental aspect of my being and a shedding of the fears that I had grown up with
This makes sense to me, good on her for pointing that out for you.

Rogina B

08-12-2013, 09:59 PM

Kids are far more accepting than what some here give them credit for....Ellie....My daughter outed me to her first grade class! [Told them that I collect stockings and tights..lol] and we all lived through it....Hannah Montanna[Miley] is stripping,kissing girls,and smoking pot....and the kids aren't fazed by their old hero doing any of it..Oh,and Salena Gomez is knocked up as well! Some people on here are living in a bubble!

Tamara Croft

08-12-2013, 10:07 PM

Ellie52

08-12-2013, 10:47 PM

I think it comes down to personal situations. My son is 20 yrs old and is a big hairy tradesman. He is what you may call homophobic to a degree and I know he wouldnt take kindly to finding Dad in stockings and high heels. This is my situation and nobody elses. What you have to decide is how your situation warrants what and who you tell. Some dont mind being outed but I respect my son too much and would hate to see that respect disappear. If he comes home one day and tells me is gay (it could happen) Ill reciprocate and tell him Im a CD but till then no way....Each to his/her own way of dealing with things.

Rogina - I know kids can be accepting and yours outed you, but what would happen if she outed you to your boss at work who then found some unrelated reason to dismiss you. Or you find all your kids friends dont want to come over any more....Theres a lot more to it than just ourselves. I said in an earlier post we are selfish and we are. I want to be able to have my cake and eat it too.
Kids change as they get older and anyone with a teenage girl would know what I mean....

There are a million stories out there...Ellie
ps even my dog looks at me funny when Im dressed. So what do I know.........E

AllieSF

08-12-2013, 11:17 PM

Ellie,

You said the key words, "it comes down to personal situations" since everyone and every situation is different in some way. Therefore, each person has to weigh the pros and cons to key decisions like coming out to a loved one, even including a wife. Not all outcomes come out the way we anticipated or hoped for, some are better and some are much worse. We each do our best based on the tools that we have, even if they are broken tools like communication skills with a loved one, to do what we think is best. I do strongly respect and defend one's right to make their own decisions and not to be coerced by peer pressure from those that really do not know the specific details of the specific situation. Those making those recommendations really have no money in the game and will lose nothing if their strong opinion when followed by the other fails miserably. That is when you usually hear the recommenders stating that the person didn't do it the right way. What is the right way?

We can and should offer our recommendations when asked, or if the post warrants it. However, emphatic recommendations that basically say do it my way only, are really not what the asker needs to hear. Someone who is truly confused or lost will tend to reach at just about anything to take away that confusion and help point out a good path out. I believe that they need carefully worded recommendations that still tell the truth but in a way that does not pressure them to make a decision based on that viewpoint only. They need to read, understand and then filter out what may or may not work for them in their own situation.

Rogina B

08-13-2013, 05:27 AM

Ellie,As Allie says,everyone's situation is different.I have designed a gender fluid lifestyle over the last ten years that gives me the personal satisfaction I crave and deserve.I work for myself,in a sometimes physically tough work world[the commercial waterfront] and as I tell people that assume I am full time.."I can't do it in a dress"..So,Roger is only the presentation at work. People know in my workworld,but I don't care to make new personal friends there anyway. My lifestyle allows me to make lots of nice friends when off the job.My wife and daughter would much rather have me happy and satisfied rather than ready to blow a gasket,anyday!

CrossJess

08-13-2013, 06:05 AM

Personally I wouldn't tell the children because they are at different ages, the 13 year old my find it difficult to accept this especially being 13 it in it's self is a very difficult age anyway.

I don't think I could ever tell anyone about my cross dressing, I'm only a light crossdresser in the privacy of my own home when everyone's out, I have no desire to tell anyone, I could only imagine the fall out if they ever found out that I was "A" bisexual and "B" a cross dresser, it's too much too loose, it's a secrete Ill take to the grave lol

JamieG

08-13-2013, 08:26 AM

Do you realize what that says about you and how you view stereotypes?<snipped the rest>

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Lorileah, thanks for such an insightful post. Although, my wife and I haven't told our two girls that I'm a crossdresser, they know that I take ballet (a decidedly non he-man activity), and I don't think they view me as a lesser father for it. We are constantly telling them that its okay for girls to like science and sports, and that there's nothing wrong with boys that like things that are little feminine.

MysticLady

08-13-2013, 09:47 AM

Hello Jessica

We could switch places and, except for a couple of things, and we would be living the same life. I agree in that it is very difficult when the dynamic of a family is involved. We try to solve our problems sometimes w/ "fixes" that we're wired too do. But, this one, is a tough one. I'm a master of tinker and rigging and this one for the life of me, I can't fix. AAARRRRGGGGHHH Anyway, I guess it just goes too show that "we" can't fix everything. Something I guess, I'm still learning. When you come up w/ a "fix", let me know:heehee:.

BTW. You look very elegant in your photo's:)

Stephanie47

08-13-2013, 10:09 AM

There is absolutely no reason to tell children at such an early age that their father is a cross dresser. That is adding nothing more than a burden added to their lives, especially considering their mother is not accepting of your cross dressing. The children are smart enough to perceive a conflict in the house. I suspect they will adopt a code of silence. How will they cope at school or on the playground with their friends? Such revelations are of no benefit to them, only to you.

As to wives........ I discovered decades ago that "forcing" a woman to accept cross dressing, when they are uncomfortable with the concept, is nothing more than an attempt to seek validation of self from the woman. When I saw the pain it caused my wife I stopped trying to get her to "accept" my cross dressing. My wife's pain negated any joy I would get from presenting in front of her. Unless I was willing to give up a loving wife and beautiful kids, it was staying in the closet.

I wish you luck in resolving your situation. You're walking on egg shells.

ReineD

08-13-2013, 03:45 PM

So sorry for your struggles, Jessica. I hope the therapist sessions will help you and your wife. Would you consider having your wife join this site and become a member of FAB?

As to telling the children, I also do not think you should. Not because they might be non-accepting, or because they may be too young or too near the teenage years, or because they may feel the weight of the secret, but because in my view it is imperative that both parents be on the same page before telling the kids. Else they will sense the discord and they will have to make a judgment about who is right and who is wrong. In other words, they will be forced to subconsciously pick sides. And this is a terrible burden to place on children.

Even though your wife may be in agreement that you should tell the kids, as long as SHE hasn't worked through the CDing, the kids will sense her unhappiness just as surely as you did on the night that she attended the support group.

Since your wife is in the midst of learning more about this and she is working on accepting (albeit slowly), you may wish to consider waiting before telling the kids. It is not one year or two that will make a huge difference in the overall scheme of things. Lots of things can happen in the space of two years and hopefully by that time, you wife will be in a much better place with this.

TeresaCD

08-13-2013, 10:25 PM

For the time being I am concentrating my efforts on stabilising the relationship with my wife and when this has been achieved I will re consider a joint approach to disclosure in a controlled manner supported by the advise/backup of a trained psychologist.

Hi gorgeous!
I have always thought telling kids is a together thing, as you well know.
And hiding from the kids is more about protecting them, than shame I think.
We're doing nothing to be ashamed of, they need a chance to go through adolescence without extra issues is all..
I think your priorities are right, Jess. You know that.

And girls, she looked fantastic on the night. :):battingeyelashes:

Jessicajane

08-15-2013, 05:30 AM

Thanks Teresa, as did you babe...but hey you knew that without me telling you...I look forward to talking to you on Saturday a bit more about this subject...over a drink and girly chat

As for the many posts I have to say that I am a little taken aback by the responses I appreciate all view points , even if a few are a tad harsh but I have to say it has made me stop and consider my options again…time and considerate thought will determine if the outcome remains the same or not…
Firstly I would not have said anything until I have the blessing and agreement of my SO and I fully agree with virtually all who believe this is the only way.
My situation with the children is clear that I am not wanting the dressing to be part of their lives on a day to day basis, where I am dressing in front of them…
my issue lies in the fact that as a person, I have struggled all my life with fear , shame, the whole kit and caboodle of emotions that comes with CDressing and I am just over it… plain and simple…. over hiding from my wife , so I came out and risked all to save both my marriage and my sanity, because both were going downhill rapidly it is difficult and there will be pot holes to negotiate but just tonight I got a “love gift” from her…a nail polish…….she is making the effort and our love is strong enough to negotiate a way through I am sure…
over sneaking about in the shadows and praying that I don’t get caught when returning home by a child who has gotten up…or as my children grow up and keep irregular hours what if our paths cross on my way out or on my return home, what if they see a glimpse of nail polish or they catch sight of my clothes and wigs….would those who advocate secrecy advise what I tell my children if the first they know about my dressing is a full on image of me dressed as Jessica and they had no idea….what would that do to my relationship with them.
My logic, however blinded on this subject, is that a quiet , controlled and thought out conversation with my wife and children can start with our family’s approach to accepting difference in the general community , a reaffirmation of our commitment to being open and available to supporting if the children need to discuss any subject and an explanation of my situation and that individuality is OK ..its allowed… it’s not a sin…
For those that think I am selfish let me tell you that on this subject I have hit a brick wall …I have always consider the children regardless of the issue and we alter our lives tremendously to accommodate a brighter future for them, this is normal it is part of parenting, but I am not ending up on tablets for depression or risk the continual fear of them finding out through someone else having recognised me or an unexpected encounter where the resulting exposure of truth would be harsher and in my opinion far, far more damaging.
If the children are told it will be on the terms and with the words we choose, and will be done with sensitivity .

Rogina B

08-15-2013, 06:19 AM

We all have different situations,for sure. Just make sure that you create an open minded accepting way of thinking for those kids. That way,when you finally feel they need to know about you,[cause you want to go out and about,etc]it will be a whole lot easier to explain to them for you..Kids are really great and accepting..it is the adults that SOMETIMES aren't...

MatildaJ.

08-15-2013, 11:31 AM

Would those who advocate secrecy advise what I tell my children if the first they know about my dressing is a full on image of me dressed as Jessica and they had no idea...A quiet , controlled and thought out conversation with my wife and children can start with our family's approach to accepting difference in the general community, a reaffirmation of our commitment to being open and available to supporting if the children need to discuss any subject and an explanation of my situation and that individuality is OK.

Suppose instead of women's clothes, you liked diapers? Suppose you liked dressing all in latex and leather horse gear? Or suppose you liked dressing in little girl dresses, instead of adult women's clothes. People do all those things, but they don't generally tell their children. Yes, the children may stumble on it, but then one says -- "oh, sorry you saw that, just some adult fun your mom and I were having." Or, on your way home from an event, "Oh, there's a group of us who like to dress up together." If in the rest of your life you have stressed the importance of respecting differences among people and that individuality is OK (as you say you do, in general terms), then they'll understand that goes for you too, if and when they stumble on it.

Now, if dressing as a woman isn't something you want to dismiss as "just some adult fun," if you feel that you want to come out to them as a woman, that's different. If you'll be coming out to the world eventually as a woman, then coming out to your children first makes sense. But are you ready for them to tell the neighbors or their friends about what you do? For a lot of us SOs, one of the most frustrating parts about finding out about the crossdressing is that it's a big marital issue that we're not allowed to talk about with our friends and confidants. We join the crossdresser in the closet, and we're often not happy about that. How do you feel about the closet, and if you're in it yourself, then how do you feel about pulling your children in with you?

heatherdress

08-15-2013, 12:13 PM

A lot of great advice. But spare your children. No reason they need to know at their ages. The need a father - not confusion and issues. You must put them first.

ReineD

08-15-2013, 01:12 PM

Jessica, you might be interested in the following. It is an extensive, 26 page pamphlet intended for the children of trans-parents (crossdressers or transsexuals), who find out about their parents' gender non-conformity. The pamphlet is in the spirit of counseling and helping kids to cope with the news, but it also is quite realistic about the different reactions that kids have.

If I were contemplating telling a child, every word of this would be a must-read for me:

http://www.colage.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/KOT-Resource-Guide-Draft-2.pdf

Allsteamedup

08-30-2013, 09:28 AM

As a teacher I can tell you that few children have the concept of not sharing your news. The alternative is to ask them to keep a secret, which in turn reduces what they share with their friends, a similar sort of barrier to that lived by the SOs of CDers.

They want you on the touchline, not as a modified (shaved and polished) TG but similar to everybody else's Dad. Not there to explain diversity to their friends but to play the games they all share.
Give it some thought.

Kathinja Galaxy

08-30-2013, 10:43 AM

This is a very complicated scenario, and I'm not really sure my 2 cents should be dropped into this machine.. but here it goes!
I had known about my fathers crossdressing since I was 5 years old. At that age, it confused me and it never made much sense other than "If dad did it, it must be ok." I asked him why he did it and he could never give me a straight answer other than "Its just something I've always needed to do."
At age 10 to 16 I ended up resenting him to a measurable degree because I couldn't make that all important connection with my dad when he dressed, which by this point was frequently. At the end of 16, I remember actually fighting with him about it, demanding he tell me what he did this for? It was never an issue of moral, or concern with him.. but what got to me was that he still said "Its just something I've always needed to do" and that made me so angry. Something he did every day, and that was the only line? I was old enough to handle the truth at this point, but thinking back I still don't think my father ever really figured out why he needs too.. Just like how I was, at first. Once I felt a desire to dress, it made instant sense to me.. but it still bothered me up until that point.
I know this sounds kind of grim, but the majority of the time with my dad was spent not caring, and I usually never put more thought into his dressing other than he was just my dad and did what he was gonna do. And I wasn't being eaten up inside, or anything like that.. it was just a very confusing scenario for me, and I'm not one to be comfortable being confused, lol. Now I have a son, and I wont be doing things the same. He's going to always know that dad likes wearing girl things, and I'm never going to emphasize one gender or the other for him more than telling him that hes a boy with a pee-nor and I'll let him figure out himself on his own. And if he ever asks me why, I'm going to make sure I have the most clear and thought out explanation that I feel he wont be in the dark about anything. That, to me, is the only way around your children not adjusting right away to you.. But in any case.. I hope that my experience sheds any light on anything. Also remember that no two situations will ever be alike, and I wish you the best of luck D;!

(p.s. My dad openly admits that he dresses like a 1980's hooker.. so that's what I had every day, 40 year old in lingerie xD And it really wasn't uncomfortable to live with.. just confusing, LOL)