Why MUST you progress?? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Robbin_Sinclair

08-11-2013, 08:35 AM

I love the deep questions -- only wish I was deeper.

I've gone from totally enamored with CD late last year to a 90 day purge at the request of my wife to something in between. When I started, i was convinced that I could pass for a woman as I could play a role on stage. Then, between alcohol and substance abuse, I acted out in a strange town, got "busted" because my worried relatives called my wife about the clothes that I had in my 65 pound suitcase.

Right now I use this site to remember how it was before I was busted and discuss god on the religious forum. Blame it on AA and NA. I go to this site because it feels good. I am truly part of this group. I make it a point of treating my CD existence as part of life, not unlike the dark chocolate analogy. A better analogy is a nutritious meal or even good day.

I question my sexuality but not that seriously. I hook up with the (other?) gays and lesbians in the programs talking about things like this. I recently discovered Emily Dickenson, feeling a part of her, as I do many female writers. I think of myself as living in another era, dressing and making frilly clothes for myself in my studio.

I am now convinced I will never need to be "productive" in CDing. I'll never live in San Francisco and, most importantly, I will try to stay married and truly love my wife and family. I just need to be productive in my existence, play a better musical instrument, still be a pretty good community theater actor, write, always remembering that this is part of me.

I am much more fem than male sometimes. Perhaps all the time. But that's just me. "For me" Buzz words in the program.

Cheryl T

08-11-2013, 08:41 AM

Thank you for answering me in a way that actually makes complete sense. I do get a little sidetracked in my own personal journey here (understanding my H better) when I read repeated stories of progression and throwing aside caution, as you mentioned. But of course, these are the people who've got the most to voice here as it's SO important...and really, I do get that. I'm sad for wives and families...but that's hardly addiction - that's authenticity.

Anyway, I was honestly starting to believe your stock-standard fetish dresser would be a transexual by year end!! So thanks.

This CD business sure is confusing.

Yes, it is confusing.
We become confused because we have a feeling of who we are and a need to express that feeling that differs from what society has deemed correct for us based on gender at birth.
We become confused because we fear the derision and ridicule of those who do not understand what it is to be us, and who do not share our deep seated feelings.
We become confused because we are unable to accept ourselves as we are.

Once we gain that self-acceptance the confusion begins to dissipate.

No, we do not all begin as crossdressers and follow a pre-determined path to TS. We are individuals and make choices, choices that help us to satisfy OUR needs, not those of others or of a group.

Jessica Keys

08-11-2013, 08:42 AM

This is a excellent question that I have asked myself while reading the posts on here.
And yes, it is possible with your "make up" to move away from this.

TheMissus

08-11-2013, 08:47 AM

Robbin, you sound like you've got yourself together and are working on being the 'best you, you can be.' (gotta love Oprah:))

This is all I want from my H and really, we're slowly getting there. I left here once before due to finding conflicting advice but I came back because elsewhere just makes me feel...worse? Many places leave wives feeling like freaks for staying with a CD. I had one ex wife tell me she thought I must be fat, ugly and of serious low self esteem for staying. Sorry babe, quite the opposite!

Anyway, that's another story. But it's nice to also read this CAN be controled and levelled with in everyday life if, unlike those for whom it's a lifestyle, it's something you don't NEED to survive, so to speak. Though, I'm sure plenty of fetish dressers DO imagine they'll die without it - or their penis will fall off. I'll have to ask my H which one is most scary.

If he says the latter, I guess I can put aside the transexual fears, haha

PretzelGirl

08-11-2013, 08:51 AM

As it is said, we are all different. It isn't just in what we do but also the reasons why. The reasons why is what applies to your question. Someone who is transsexual may go straight to transition or take a slow path through believing they are a crossdresser and they keep progressing to find out otherwise. A crossdresser who is full time or near it doesn't start that way. Then there are those that do it once a blue moon and stay there. They aren't progressing.

While there is something inside of us that drive many of us, I also think there are many that aren't driven in that manner. I am one that believes there are some that can quit, although it is a small percentage. The difference is why we do this in the first place. And that is also going to be the underlying reason on whether you progress or not. There is always some level of choice in it, but you just can't ignore your own make-up (and I don't mean foundation).

Robbin_Sinclair

08-11-2013, 08:55 AM

.....Anyway, I was honestly starting to believe your stock-standard fetish dresser would be a transexual by year end!! So thanks......This CD business sure is confusing. Following up on my other post and what you just posted:

Remember, you are on a site that people sought out, foresaking all others. It is like going to the church on a Sunday morning and asking the choir how they feel about god and music. Not a very good sample. I made the mistake that it was. Combine that with a mind confused with alcohol and substances, I was far overly impressed.

Take it easy. XXhuggs, robbin

Kathy Smith

08-11-2013, 09:07 AM

Well... If you can answer the question "why?" then you're a better TV than I am. lol

Just my 2 penn'orth:

It seems to be a question of what the driving force is. Someone who is inherrently TS, even though they may not realise it at first, is "on a journey" toward the gender that they feel that they need to be. Those with gender dysphoria feel that need the most strongly. It is this group as a whole who will be most likely to suffer the broken relationships. Not all this group will progress as far as GRS, but almost all those who do will be from this group. Many will end up full-time.

On the other hand, those of us that are crossdressers, without strong gender problems (if any at all), will probably only progress to some much lower level, where they feel that their need is met. It might be occasional underdressing or it might be regular girly nights out. This group might have more control over how far they go, or they might just have a lower target to achieve. The problems start when a member of this group discovers that they actually belong in the first group!

That's about it as far as I can see it.

heatherdress

08-11-2013, 09:17 AM

Seems like these are individual questions which are best discussed with your SO or spouse - the one you feel "must progress". I am concerned about your pain and hope you can resolve the problems you describe. I do not want to be defensive, but I did try to respond to some specific questions you raised:

- mandatory progression - I do not believe everyone "must" progress, as you question. While there is a wide range of behaviors which fall under the general category of crossdressing, each individual is different. Range of dressing, frequency, purpose, intent, circumstances, age, family situation, employment, finances, location, genetics, sexual orientation, health - a wide range of differences which offers different bahavior.

- Progression, learning, experimentation, exploration, growth, discovery - has different meanings for each of us

- "daily nightmare where wives are lost, children are told and extended families broken apart" - seems awful, needs to be addressed, but does not apply to everyone or even most who CD (I am sorry for you and hope your troubles can be resolved)

- "Why can't you exert some form of self control over the progression?" - agree, we should be able to control our behaviors and, if we can't, we should seek help

- "a society where people indulge entirely in their own needs is not a society that will survive" - agree, but all crossdressers do not simply "indulge entirely their own needs" and there are many people who do "indulge entirely in their own needs" and do so without crossdressing

- "an almost addictive element to CDing that might make many a wife lift an eyebrow" - agree, any selfish addictions would cause any spouse pain and concern

- "why YOU get a free pass to overindulge" - agree, we should not overindulge, but there are few "free passes" anywhere in life, there are costs and limits; also, not all crossdressers "overindulge"

- "Does the lack of a toxic substance make CD progression any different from any other addiction?" - yes, simple CD progression does not specifically equate to an addiction; I would also offer that if someone is "addicted" to crossdressing, there would be similarities and differences to substance abuse, gambling, food and other addictions - and they should seek help

No flogging - I hope this works out OK for you and your family.

PaulaQ

08-11-2013, 09:19 AM

Missus,

My opinion is that many people on this forum suffer from either a minor form of Gender Dysphoria, or something very much like it. My belief is that many here have some physical portion of their brains that are more female in structure than male. If CDing is enough to alleviate the discomfort a person feels, then they are exceedingly fortunate.

What I'm suggesting is that there is a partial mismatch between the gender of their mind, and the gender of their bodies. Cross gender expression seems to alleviate this.

Why do I make a comparison between what many CDs experience and what TS people experience? Well, let's look at some similarities:

1. Many CDs here experience real discomfort if they don't CD for a while. The period and degree of this discomfort varies. For a TS, the discomfort is pretty much 24/7, pretty unbearable (the extent of this varies), and not solved merely by dressing. (For some this helps, for others it is insufficient.) This seems similar to me, but varying in severity.

2. Many TS girls I know started out cross dressing when they were young. By no means all, but this is a common pattern for MtF TS. It stands to reason that some of the "just a CD" girls here are TS, and just haven't figured it out yet.

3. GD is most definitely progressive. Lots of other medical conditions are progressive if untreated. Why this should surprise anyone is beyond me. If the progression a CD faces is slow enough, and mild enough, that an increasingly feminine appearance is sufficient to alleviate their discomfort, and they don't need to transition, then they are very fortunate.

What I'm suggesting here is that many forum members here suffer from either the same, or a highly similar physical condition of their brains that gives them a partial feminine identity. This is a part of them, you can't change it. You can't stop it. You can only hope it is mild enough that they remain "just a CD."

How is this different from an addiction? I struggled with this question myself, because I've been sober for 23 years now. My conclusion is that our powerlessness over cross gender expression is very similar to that of an addict - we are powerless over this. Unlike an addict though, the treatment for this is NOT abstinence, it is, counters intuitively indulgence. People here frequently report giving up CD for years. Are they happy and well adjusted? No. Not if you really read what most of them say. The urges come back and increase in intensity over time during abstinence - this is the OPPOSITE of what happens with substance abusers. Abstinent substance abusers tend to get better as they maintain sobriety. (This is hard to do, BTW.) They tend to be happier and life tends to be better. NOT SO for the typical abstinent CDer here - they get worse, and many are totally miserable. (Compare with a TS who speaks of misery and "living a lie")

So if your spouse can be OK being a dude most of the time, and just needs to look pretty sometimes (even if the extent and frequency increases over time), but they never need to transition (most here won't in my opinion), then YOU are lucky, at least relatively, because if your SO freaks you out now, all I can say as a TS is "you ain't seen nothing' yet."

BTW, I expect this post to be as unpopular as all hell, because their is a LOT of denial on this forum. (This is another similarity with addiction.) My opinion is that the reason for that is largely based on fear and social conditioning. The fear is justified, being TS is an awful fate, and the social conditioning is brutal.

Zylia

08-11-2013, 09:21 AM

Yeah, for me, the 'pink fog' is actually the little pink progress monster in the corner that's staring at me every time I'm enjoying my 'femme self' a bit too much. Then I remember I'd be a terrible girl. I may like fashion and I can actually cook, but I can also read maps, I cannot find my keys even if they're in plain sight, I like Star Trek and I can only do one thing at a time.
And my farts smell.

But seriously, I don't have any problems with being a guy and I'm very careful about crossing points of no return. I like to dress up, but moderation is key, and probably something that keeps me happy.

Lynn Marie

08-11-2013, 09:22 AM

heatherdress

08-11-2013, 09:29 AM

I also want to add that my wife supports and enjoys when I crossdress. She actually prompted my initial discovery that I like to crossdress. I have not done anything without her knowledge. We do role play and have fun.

We both feel that it has also made us more intimate. We have discussed the "why's" and the "how does it make you feel" and the assurances and appreciation and understanding associated.

Once again, I understand your doncerns and wish you well. Good luck.

TxKimberly

08-11-2013, 09:32 AM

. . . I was honestly starting to believe your stock-standard fetish dresser would be a transexual by year end!! So thanks.

This CD business sure is confusing.

My wife and I have been happily married for 26 years now. :-)
We have three beautiful children. :)
I have a job that I love.
No, no plans at all for going full time.

Once your on this forum for a while, you start to realize that a LOT of us have far longer marriages than the average person. Don't get me wrong, we also have folks who have lost or ended their marriages, and I'm sure that this was probably part of why, but there are an awful lot of us with very long and successful marriages, so there is no need to feel that yours must be in imminent danger just because your husband is a cross dresser. (I am assuming that this is part of the reason for your question? Forgive me if I presume too much)

TheMissus

08-11-2013, 09:34 AM

Thanks PaulaQ, I appreciate your honesty :)

I am actually one who will disagree though as my H and I have had extensive counselling in this area and can pinpoint the very thing that got him on this path. Up until this point, (age 7 I think?) he hadn't a 'girl' thought in his head. Nothing. The idea never even occurred as it doesn't to most young boys.

My H started CD in large part because of how his father outright rejected him - and in small part - because his father rejected his sister less. (He also had incidents of being forced to wear his sister's clothing that sealed his fate, so to speak) That's it. My H soon took comfort in all things NOT his father (his mother's clothing, her perfume etc) and the path was made. Now here we are.

So I don't believe everyone here has a different brain gender anymore than I have a boy brain because I like to rock climb on occasion because it calms me down. I think SOME have gender dysphoria, while the rest unwittingly picked a path brought about by circumstances not of their doing. I mean, what little boy REALLY understands the hard reality of his future when he tries on that dress? None, of course. They're just doing what makes sense at that moment, as any child does.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain male brains can decide to wear a dress too, so I'm firmly in the camp that gender dysphoria is a condition SOME here face, while others walk a very different path that COULD lead to addictive behaviour.

Just my perspective on all this.

Zylia

08-11-2013, 09:36 AM

Lynn Marie knocked it out of the park. Thread's closed.

Actually makes me wonder if there's any correlation between ('severity' of) cross-dressing and autism spectrum disorders, but let's not go there :D

mikiSJ

08-11-2013, 09:37 AM

We all negotiate life the best we can and seldom is there a win/win result, but there also needn't be a zero sum solution to every life's event. Crossdressing can become a compulsion, a prelude to a confusing journey or simply a pleasure. It is NOT an addiction.

Miki arrived with a bang late last year and it almost cost me my marriage. We compromised and have managed to get through so far, together. But, if it weren't for my marriage and its importance to me, I would most likely be living as Miki full-time (at least that is what I think I want right now). Since a part of our compromise is that I don't dress at home, and because I developed a nasty case of vertigo Monday I am writing this post scratching my week old beard in my guy bathrobe wishing I was in a hotel room taking off my nail polish after spending a wonderful evening with the girls from the River City Gems and their dinner social. But, alas...

So, what is progress? In my case it was reaching an currently acceptable life style with my wife. For others, it is being a bulldozer crushing everything in their past to get to where they think they are entitled and the rest of the world be damned, being so timid that their very soul becomes irrelevant in their need to protect their privacy.

I think the most successful of us here are those that do take into account their own needs first, but always try to balance their needs against the trauma that can arise in their relationships; whether at home, work or elsewhere.

TheMissus

08-11-2013, 09:41 AM

We men have a great tendency to go crazy with our interests, hobbies, and obsessions. Sometimes to the terrible detriment of our families and friends. We have a hard time growing out of being selfish, self centered, little boys. Often it is an escape from our responsibilities to family, work, and community, ie "man cave". We also have a need to excel at something and be recognized for our prowess. Also to the detriment of the more mundane duties of home and family. And then we have those of us who feel trapped in the wrong body or just that we are girls!

Ha, I think you just summed up my H! He's a total 'boy' about all this. Ironic isn't it?

Such a great answer. I think you just alleviated today's fears. Thanks! :)

And HeatherDress, thank you so much for the thoughtful answers. But actually, my question was more on observation of what I read here as my H is usually one of the controlled ones. Usually...hence my concern there's some set path to progression!

Maybe there is, but Lynn just gave me permission to send him to his man cave without dinner if it happens :)

Kate Simmons

08-11-2013, 09:41 AM

What many don't understand is that in a lot of cases(not all) what drives the dressing are very deep feelings that need to be addressed. Progression of CDing(which is a process) is one way to do this and to express them. Many don't get that far, however, and are on a seemingly endless merry-go-round or roller coaster, never understanding why they are doing what they are doing. Of course some folks dress for sheer pleasure.If we strive to understand our feelings and are successful, we realize that we can, indeed, control the process. It seems to be a demanding process, however and if let on the loose will take on a mind of it's own at the expense of a person's family, friends, job, etc. The only real way to beat it is to make it a total choice rather than letting it remain an overriding compulsion. In other words, the person makes the choice whether they want to dress or not and the person is in control, not the compulsion. It's not easy and takes hard work but it can be done.:)

AlyssaS

08-11-2013, 09:52 AM

It's personal fulfillment, isn't it? I'm willing to bet more families have been torn apart by both people working too long hours than have been by crossdressing. Why is it not ok to say 'well, the woman just would give up her career goals for the sake of the family, so she's a bad person / in the wrong'? Both the 'traditional female role' and the dislike of crossdressing come from the cultural history of Western society -- why is it acceptable for one group to fight for something more than that but not others?

reb.femme

08-11-2013, 09:58 AM

I find myself agreeing so much with PaulaQ.

The part I found most interesting was the comparison with addiction (smoking for me 28 years ago) and CDing. "The urges come back and increase in intensity over time during abstinence - this is the OPPOSITE of what happens with substance abusers. Abstinent substance abusers tend to get better as they maintain sobriety." As an ex smoker who found it hard to give up on several occasions but finally beat it aged 25, I can think of no earthly reason I would ever go back to it.

I've experienced the completely unexpected deaths of those near to me and the last thing on my mind is smokes or alcohol. On the CD front however, I had tried to avoid over the years the lure of the lingerie and silky soft materials but, after a short period of abstinence, bang! I'm back with avengeance.

Progression for me has been and is limited to being able to dress as I wish at home, which I keep restricted to a day here and there as my wife is not 100% supportive and after all, she married her man. I go to my local Trans group once a month and I don't really see much more for me than that. As for becoming TS......no way José!

Me and my currently assigned anatomy are inseparable....unless I upset the wife and her blunt scissors. :heehee:

Rebecca

Princess Grandpa

08-11-2013, 10:05 AM

Why must we progress? An excellent question indeed. I asked the same question not long ago. Only difference was I left out the word why. Must I progress? Is this some slippery slope? I went from wearing "something pretty and soft once in a great while to fully dressing with make up and forms on a a regular basis that fast. *snaps his fingers*. I grant you it happened at my with my wife's acceptance and urging. I fear greatly what truths I may learn about myself as time passes.

I remember a young boy discovering his body and masturbation. One day it occurs to him how nice those panties/nighties/slips would feel against his body. Of course after he finishes the shame and self loathing kicks in causing him to promise himself he won't be so gross in the future. I have no recollection how long this cycle lasted but at some point it faded away. I met my wife and we married when we were far too young.

We flash forward many years. A marriage on the verge of collapse. A man without intimacy for months is home taking care of his young child while his wife is out for the evening. He sees her nightgown and remembers how happy that silk made him feel when he was younger and would do anything to feel happy again. So he tries it on. Once he finishes he understands why his marriage is crashing and why he will spend the rest of his life alone. He wonders if that's a life worth living at all.

Somehow against all odds the marriage survives. The couple rebuild their life together, They have another child and both children grow up. Then one day he gets his nails painted and a feeling of peace and contentment sweep over him. He understands. This is something inside that must be allowed out!

Most of my life I have suffered from depression. Self diagnosed perhaps, but I have no doubt of what it was. Despite my ability to come off self assured and confident, I had very low self esteem and cried myself to sleep many a night. For the first time that is absent. I know who I am(I hope) and I'm genuinely happy!

This is why I had to progress. I'm so lucky! My wife is as big a freak as I am and is enjoying this with me. What if she felt as so many other spouses here? I would have to continue suppressing this. I wouldn't know what but something unhealthy would be happening inside. I would still struggle with bouts of depression until one day after I was "done being sick" I gave in to what needed to happen and committed suicide.

I think the key word in your question is "must" it's not a choice. Most of us would prefer to be normal I suspect if it were just a matter of making a choice.

Hug
Rita

Beverley Sims

08-11-2013, 10:07 AM

You do not have to progress.
It is your choice entirely.
Most want to progress and albeit too quickly, that is why they get into trouble.
If circumstances dictate that you should slow down, do so.
It is your own fault and peer pressure that get's you into the mire that some girls find themselves in.
It is frustrating when you want to proceed and temptation gets the better of you, mistakes are made then.
Remember it is your own fault if you get caught out.
I feel sorry when you do get caught, but the short answer to the question is small steps when the coast is clear. :)
You do not have to proceed or progress....

"If you don't want to."

Lady Slipper

08-11-2013, 10:08 AM

This CD business sure is confusing.

Freaking tell ME about it! :D

Jenniferathome

08-11-2013, 10:11 AM

It is not a "must" but an exploration, I think. For most of us, after being in the closet for decades, we don't know what it is to express that part of us. So I think it natural to go a little bit overboard once out. Now, that, does not mean at the expense of wives, relationships, etc. there are those here who can not control themselves. THAT, I do not understand.

I am a cross dresser but that is not "me." I am much more. Cross dressing is a part of me, but only a small part. My wife, family, life, come first.

I think it is very important that YOU set boundaries for your husband that you are comfortable with. If you don't want to see him dressed, that is your prerogative and his to follow. The only thing you can't request is "stopping." Cross dressing is not an addiction but has similar elements. It's genetic. It's in us. Like brown hair or blue eyes.

Set your rules. It's your life too.

NicoleScott

08-11-2013, 10:18 AM

Maybe there are some who, driven by an insatiable need to express their femininity, have mistakenly identified themselves as CD but are really TS.

Jenniferathome

08-11-2013, 10:22 AM

...that's it. My H soon took comfort in all things NOT his father (his mother's clothing, her perfume etc) and the path was made. Now here we are.
...

Missus, the path wasn't made because of external causes. I do not believe in the gender dysphoria notion. It's pure genetics. Just like being gay. The path was there from birth. No one would want to be a cross dresser. It's not an easy way to live life.

kimdl93

08-11-2013, 10:27 AM

There is no rule or law that says one must progress. And many, many of us do not go beyond a certain point. The constraints may be personal preference, it may be family concerns, it may be professional concerns.

But also, please try to imagine what some of us experience. Using myself as an example, i always felt different, somewhat vaguely so, from the earliest days of memory. And I evidently exhibited some behaviors and interests that were, well, feminine. I learned to suppress and deny those feelings and interests mostly out of self preservation.

As I've matured and come to grips with my divided gender loyalties, I've rediscovered, or at least allowed myself to express those long hidden things. It's been incremental...underdressing, then wearing a few female outer garments, but eventually I found the courage to go all the way...something I always wanted to do, but for so long feared.

Is this a progression. From the outside view, it appears as such. But from my perspective it's simply peeling back the layers of a facade so that the underlying person is revealed.

Of course it's disruptive. And of course, each step out has the risk of damaging relationships. But there's also a risk and cost to hiding, denial and repression. I know this from my own experience. I carried a deeply ingrained self doubt and self loathing that expressed itself as needless temper tantrums and depression. It damaged my first marriage and held me back professionally. Today, I'm a better person, a better partner and a better parent, more confident in myself and my abilities as I've allowed the real me out.

Princess Grandpa

08-11-2013, 10:31 AM

Maybe there are some who, driven by an insatiable need to express their femininity, have mistakenly identified themselves as CD but are really TS.

Probably my biggest fear. I don't think this is the case but ten years ago I didn't think I was a cross dresser.

Hug
Rita

JamieG

08-11-2013, 10:56 AM

My wife and I have been happily married for 26 years now. :-)
We have three beautiful children. :)
I have a job that I love.
No, no plans at all for going full time.

Once your on this forum for a while, you start to realize that a LOT of us have far longer marriages than the average person. Don't get me wrong, we also have folks who have lost or ended their marriages, and I'm sure that this was probably part of why, but there are an awful lot of us with very long and successful marriages, so there is no need to feel that yours must be in imminent danger just because your husband is a cross dresser. (I am assuming that this is part of the reason for your question? Forgive me if I presume too much)

I second what Kimberly said. I've been happily married for 12 years, and my wife has known of my dressing for ten of those. I'll admit that I have "progressed" from dressing completely in private without makeup to occasionally shaving my entire body, presenting completely en femme, and going out in safe public places with other TGs. However, this progression happened slowly over time and only after I discussed it with my wife. We were sure to set boundaries early on so that she could express her comfort level, and I was sure to stay within them in order to build up trust. Over time the boundaries expanded by mutual agreement. I am happy with our current arrangement and have no intention of progressing towards hormones or a sex change.

I think progression happens because of fear. For a long time fear of being treated as a pariah keeps us from doing almost anything. As we discover communities like this one, we begin to realize that many of our fears are unfounded. As we shed our fears, we take further steps out of the closet, which appear as progression to an outsider, but in fact we are simply realizing our entire selves. Occasionally, one of us gets such an adrenaline rush out of confronting the fears that they completely forget about the impact on their loved ones and start exhibiting selfish behavior. This is the "pink fog" that we always warn of. This is what can destroy marriages and lose jobs. But it doesn't have to happen. Being aware of it is the first step in controlling the fog.

Jamie

Tina B.

08-11-2013, 10:58 AM

Kimdl said it for me, I could have written this one myself, but probably not as well.

Frédérique

08-11-2013, 11:31 AM

Why MUST you progress?

Well, let’s consider the word “progress” for a moment, shall we? What is progress, anyway? :thinking:

Progress is a moving forward, or onward. It has to do with development and improvement, advancement towards perfection (or a higher state). It can also imply continuing towards completion, passing through, pushing forward, and so forth. Many MtF crossdressers who post on this site relate the sequence of acts, or happenings, they encounter, along their personal path to progress. To some, crossdressing is just one step towards longed-for completion, while for others, CD’ing is an end in itself, an advancement that is most profound…

In my case, I “progressed” as soon as I began to crossdress. Having the courage to do that first act was, to me, an act of completion. I DID IT! Now I can enjoy the forbidden fruits of my labor, and spend my time making the whole crossdressing experience more efficient and self-satisfying. I have no aspirations of something higher, in terms of gender displacement, in fact I feel I have reached a relaxing plateau after a LONG arduous climb. I like it here. I won’t be pushing through any more portals, thank you (what's behind door number three?). In short, my progression is at an end, or is it?

But, let me ask you this – doesn’t the NEED to progress fuel the desire to do a thing like crossdress? I mean, you can be like everyone else, and think like everyone else, and do exactly the same things that others do, or you can TRY things, namely those things that others wish you wouldn’t do. Crossdressing is one of those taboo things, and, by its very nature, it expresses a yearning to progress beyond the societal confines put in place by non-inquisitive (and uninteresting) types. If you’re truly alive, you MUST question everything, including your own sexuality, appearance to the world, and relationship with existence, IF you are to progress as a human being…

You might as well ask, “Why must you be ALIVE?” :waiting:

docrobbysherry

08-11-2013, 11:40 AM

I can't speak for TS's Missus as I'm a CD.

Progression: We r adult men. Most of us start, and many still live, in our closet. Think of dressing as a guy would. When we find out others do it, we want to meet them and see if we have things in common and to learn more about our hobby/compulsion and ourselves and to challenge/improve our techniques. Think of it like a guy who gets interested in golfing. He'll want to "practice" as often as possible to improve. And, want to play with his golf buddies and learn and buy newer "equipment" when he's aware it exists. Dressers r just the same!

Your Chocolate metaphor: Yes. ANYONE in a partnership tempers their enthusiasm based on their partner's expected reaction. Someone living alone can eat chocolate whenever they like! Those with partners may not.

Shades of Grey metaphor: If u can read that book without any desire to at least try out some simple rope tricks, then u won't understand our dressing compulsion. Because if that book was about CDing it would give us ALL ideas we'd want to try!

Little boys trying on dresses: ANYONE that thinks putting dresses on "normal, regular" young boys turns them into CDs, is living on a river in Egypt.

Lorileah

08-11-2013, 11:46 AM

why must it progress? Because that which does not grow will wither and die. Now I know that the OP would like that as far as the dressing goes...hope it would just go away, but when it goes it takes a part of the person it is in also. With time this could lead to anger and hate. Depression.

Nothing remains static in life. Things change. Relationships change and those that can adapt to the changes stay strong, those who cling to what was, become bitter and disillusioned. Remember that when you think you are in a groove you are really digging a rut.

I can see that the changes are uncomfortable but deep down inside I think that most relationships are built from subtle clues early on. The ability to see things for a different perspective may have been why you chose your SO. Subtle TG things.

Do things need to progress? And truthfully many don't progress at all and some progress at a snails pace. We get an unusual skew here because people who come and post are often the ones who are questioning and want to progress. There are far more TGs in the world who are happy where they are. OK not happy but comfortable and willing to live. Almost every TG in the world would like their SO to see them as they are and encompass them as they are. This is difficult when the SO isn't informed early enough to form their own opinion. No, and between partners often they won't but there is a deep longing on both sides. Finding a shared point is what can hold the relationship together. Allowing both partners to grow and develop. You can remember the past but trying to keep it wears on you. Live life, grow, progress. See the world through new eyes. You mention 50 shades (which although a boom to the increase in the lifestyle it describes is not an accurate vision of said lifestyle). That shows that you want to progress yourself. Have you discussed this with your SO? The analogy of 50 shades and dark chocolate really tells ME that your sex life is foundering. Is you SO using dressing as an alternative? If so then (s)he needs to wake up and see where this is going. Two to tango and all that. There is no reason you both cannot progress and live new adventures. But you NEED to progress. Otherwise you will look back on your life and wonder. In my opinion I would rather say "Gee I wish I had not done that" or "That was really dumb" instead of saying "I wonder what my life would have been like if..." or " I enjoyed every moment"

Life is too short to waste. There was a country song a few years ago called "Don't Blink" and it is so true.
Next thing you know your better half

Of fifty years is there in bed
And you're praying God takes you instead
Trust me friend a hundred years
Goes faster than you think, so don't blink

Yes trust me...it goes by fast. And I would rather "progress" than become "stagnate"

Deedee Skyblue

08-11-2013, 11:49 AM

Anyway, I was honestly starting to believe your stock-standard fetish dresser would be a transexual by year end!! So thanks.

I don't believe that progression is pre-ordained. You DO see a lot of people saying that here. I object every once and a while; everyone is different. One thing most of us genetic males who post here have in common is that we are actively involved in dressing to some degree or other, and we choose to be here. And many of us think crossdressing is a natural form of expression. But there is a big difference in saying "Many people follow a similar progression that leads to transition" which is a perfectly reasonable statement to "Once you put on a pair of panties, you are fated to transition (so why fight it?)" which sometimes seems to be the tone here.

The men who stopped crossdressing aren't posting here. Since they don't some people think they don't exist.

Deedee

MysticLady

08-11-2013, 11:52 AM

Right now I use this site to remember how it was before I was busted and discuss god on the religious forum. Blame it on AA and NA. I go to this site because it feels good. I am truly part of this group. I make it a point of treating my CD existence as part of life, not unlike the dark chocolate analogy. A better analogy is a nutritious meal or even good day.

[B][I][COLOR="purple"] We men have a great tendency to go crazy with our interests, hobbies, and obsessions.

Hello All

I have also given this a great deal of thought. At this point my conclusion is as follows(may change as time progresses) As Lynn said above, Men, I believe are designed to want more and more unless there is something restricting from going further like family or the love of woman. Over time, we become complacent and then the want(whatever it may be) comes back. We seek something that will "give us that initial High" that we once had or experienced like Love, alcohol, drugs, sex, crossdressing or anything else. Possibly a reason alcoholic or person that abuses drugs, We continue to seek that initial "high" that becomes even more elusive with every time we do what we do. As Robbin stated, some of us get to a point that when we realize that the "high" will be the elusive carrot that we will never get or have. I believe, once we realize this, we settle into contentment that we may have never experienced before and realize that the "initial High" we once had will never be obtainable again. Unfortunately , some of us continue to seek that initial high until we destroy ourselves and others and never obtaining it. I believe most GG's are wired differently and do not experience this intensity as men do, so their understanding of this intensity is very limited. A GG is content w/ her husband and family were a husband will seek more than what a wife and a family gives him. Like robbin above, when God and His teachings are included into the thought process of a man, then at that point, he may understand that the "initial highs" will never be obtained here on earth but only when we are with God in His Kingdom. Man, was created too seek God while a Woman was created to seek her man and once found, she is content where a man will never be until he is w/ his creator. Just my thoughts on this Sunday Morning.

Just an Add. When a woman tries to convey her thoughts to a man it makes no sense to man just as a man tries to convey his thoughts to a woman. It just does not make sense or just can't comprehend because of the way we're built or created.

Princess Grandpa

08-11-2013, 11:54 AM

I think what Lorileah says is very important.

"We get an unusual skew here because people who come and post are often the ones who are questioning and want to progress. There are far more TGs in the world who are happy where they are. OK not happy but comfortable and willing to live."

"Almost every TG in the world would like their SO to see them as they are and encompass them as they are."

Perception is more powerful than reality
Hug
Rita

Tracii G

08-11-2013, 12:11 PM

Lorileah pretty much summed it all up with her post.
Equating CDing to an addiction can be said of some CD ers They get the taste then run with it and push it too far and cause family problems.
Those I would say are people with an addictive personality to begin with no matter what they do in life. So I'm sure they see it differently than I do.
As far as one thing leading to another or because you CD you will eventually have SRS makes no sense.

Stephanie47

08-11-2013, 12:35 PM

Hi Missus, I am going to limit my response to situations or family dynamics where the man is not a transsexual. I think there is sufficient medical literature indicating some people are born into the wrong body. That raises separate issues of which there have been lively discussions on this forum.

Not every cross dressing man progresses continuously into the pink fog at the detriment of the women. I have never figured out why I do what I do. So, I've stopped racking my brain about it. What I have not done is 'force' onto my wife a lifestyle she is not accepting of. She does not want any part of it. So, why should I impose cross dressing into the bedroom. That would get me kicked out of the house. If my wife wanted to have sex with a woman, she would have sex with a woman, and not a man in drag. Why should I wear a bra around the house, if it makes her uncomfortable?

It seems many men no matter what the issue will impose their point of view on the spouse. Some religions have created a doctrine that makes women totally subservient to the whim of the man. Some guys just say, that's the way it's going to be. It may be buying that all consuming muscle car to trick out at the expense of the family budget. It may be going out every Friday and Saturday night to drink beer with his buddies, while the wife sits home alone.

I wonder how many men, intentionally or subconsciously, push the issue because of their feeling of dominance. It may be an engrained defect on my part to consider the feelings of my wife, and, how cross dressing will affect OUR mutual life together.

Yes, it's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." It also means I value the friendship I have with my wife. I value the mutual respect we have for each other. She is not just 'something' I acquired during my life.

~Joanne~

08-11-2013, 12:42 PM

Since I finally embraced and accepted that I am a CD, and believe me it took a very long time, I have also known how far this road goes for me. My "progression" ends with going out, here and there, but not all the time. I will always try to improve my presentation while enfemme , but I know my road doesn't lead to full time, transitioning, sex with men , or anything else that strips "me" from this equation. I hope to have the best of both worlds and walk in between them unnoticed and just live my life and enjoy both sides of it equally.

Wildaboutheels

08-11-2013, 01:55 PM

Utter HOGWASH and just one of many Forum MYTHS that help no one, neither CDs of "every flavor" and or GGs and especially the Newbies. Throw in a few of the Forum Dinos who are quite insistent that we are all the "same" and that our individual journeys/parents/siblings/upbringing are completely irrelevant to "what" makes us "us"...

One GG mentioned not long ago, that coming here [to this particular site] and reading various threads planted many MORE seeds of doubt. It's got to be the same for many newbies.

FACT: There must be at least multiple dozens if not hundreds of other CDing websites. I doubt if any of those men ever worry about progressing. I am also just guessing that very few are full dressers and/or try to pass as women.

My take is that maybe 1/3 of this site is comprised of females born with male bodies, who need or at least "want" to transition. About 50% Bi, and dressing is something that allows them to still be 100% guy. [in their minds]. Except when they are dressed. [The ONLY time they become attracted to guys] Surely you have seen "those" threads? The rest just want to wear whatever clothes they like and do. At home or out. They don't need or want to be seen as/treated as a female.

The common denominator for all of the above? O's.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?196912-This-word-NEVER...&highlight=

Humans ARE animals. Pavlov and his dogs/Pavlov with his whistle. CDers [most] with their clothes. I think the conclusion is obvious and inevitable.

I am going to guess that YOUR fella has few granny dresses or flats?

MysticLady

08-11-2013, 02:07 PM

One GG mentioned not long ago, that coming here [to this particular site] and reading various threads planted many MORE seeds of doubt. It's got to be the same for many newbies.

I think that may have been my wife:heehee:, she's a tough cookie, that's for sure. Probably why I love her. You know, I may have brainal damage like she says, but not because of crossdressing:straightface:

DonniDarkness

08-11-2013, 02:32 PM

why MUST your dressing progress from whatever minor place it started into a daily nightmare where wives are lost, children are told and extended families broken apart? Why can't you exert some form of self control over the progression? Ok so im going to say some things from the heart, crucify me if you like.

the first question: Realize that for some of us, we are not living a nightmare. Being who we are does not shame others, no matter how much the world loves to shame us. Some of us have been truthful about who we are to the women we have shared our lives with and that act of honesty is the difference between the shameful and the shameless.

Families are broken apart everyday for many reasons. Infidelity, lack of monetary responsibility....im sure i dont have to list all these reasons for you....If the relationships you forge throughout your life are broken because of what clothes you wear, these relationships were already broken and they are using CDing, Transgenderism or self expression as an excuse not to fix it.

The suggestion that we should stay in the closet or stop progressing just fuels the thought pattern that there is something wrong with us and we should be ashamed. This is not true. The majority of the people here are quite happy with themselves and progressing further is only natural....in fact its human nature to progress socially through our self identities, no matter which little ray of gender sunshine you hail from.

The second question:

Some form of Self control......hmmm like hiding so your not embarrassed or ashamed? Lets re-edify the fact that this is their/your problem. Hiding and being ashamed of who we are is what got us into this social mess in the first place.

Crusader for Change,
-Donni-

TheMissus

08-11-2013, 11:08 PM

Thanks everyone for the responses. It's interesting to see how different everyone views their own personal journey and what it means to them. Progression clearly happens to some here but it's not a necessary ingredient.

One thing I saw pop up a few times was the desire for more acceptance and honestly, I don't think that's far off. Society is changing FAST and I don't doubt crossdressing will be boring to most people in the future.

But I also think some here are hoping for another acceptance to happen over time and that's women accepting this into their sexuality. I think many here hope, and perhaps even assume, women will one day view crossdressers with as much attraction as masculine men.

Never. Going. To. Happen.

This one you'll eventually have to let go. Biologically, heterosexual women will almost always choose a masculine man over a feminine man, and a man presenting as a woman is really not on her radar. Unless women change genetically and somehow our wiring of tens of thousands of years alters us to desire femininity, then this is how things will remain regardless of social acceptance.

Thing is, I know most of you know this already as I'd bet most here met their wives while presenting as men. If anyone here truly thought women desired crossdressers they'd have dated in full female regalia. I know a few may have succeeded here but let's not pretend this isn't RARE. So socially I believe life will get easier, of this I have no doubt, but I would bet my right boob that crossdressers of the future will struggle just as hard to find and keep a heterosexual relationship as they do now. Such is the hand you've been dealt. Lucky most here seem strong enough to cope with it. :)

And WildaboutHeels, no way is my H wearing granny clothing. Think Britney Spears at a nightclub and you have a good idea, lol.

MatildaJ.

08-11-2013, 11:39 PM

I think many women are attracted to a man with a slender build, thin shoulders, little body hair, and a pretty face with long eyelashes. Many women can also be attracted to men who wear skirts with confidence and panache. I think it's possible that men wearing skirts and mascara and shaving their body hair may be commonplace or fashionable, within the next twenty years

But it's hard to stay attracted to a man while he goes through what amounts to a teenager's puberty period. From what I've read here, it doesn't sound very pleasant for either the transitioning person or their spouse. Plus the wife has all sorts of anger at the woman who has replaced the familiar male persona she married.

Seems to me that it would be easier for a MtF woman to divorce, wait, build up her confidence, and then date a new person, rather than try to keep a marriage going despite all the pain and bitterness.

ReineD

08-11-2013, 11:52 PM

Missus, it's because they have to start somewhere, and the easiest place to start is something small like panties and hose.

The mistake that you may be making is believing that a CDer has reached his end point when he is just starting out. A lot of the CDers don't help with this, since the tendency is to downplay it and not divulge everything to a wife right away. Very few CDers will be able to tell their wives, "Honey, I know that I only underdress and I know that I'm in the closet because I feel as if I don't pass, but you need to know that it is my secret wish to start practicing on the makeup, eventually get forms and a wig, learn to hide my beard, shave my legs, build up a wardrobe, all so that I will be able to go out and look like a believable female. Or, if I can't go out, at least I want to look in the mirror and see a believable representation of a female".

It takes time to reach that point, but the desire to get there for CDers like your husband, perhaps, was always there.

On the CD front however, I had tried to avoid over the years the lure of the lingerie and silky soft materials but, after a short period of abstinence, bang! I'm back with avengeance.

You mention lingerie and silky soft materials, so I'm guessing that for you the dressing is sensual and/or sexual. It's uncanny how powerful are sexual urges and this is why they come back with a vengeance after a period of abstinence, while the desire for alcohol for example, abates with abstinence. I think that sexual urges are among the most powerful that we humans have. The reason for this is pure biology. We have a primitive and fundamental desire to propagate our species. So, any behavior that is tied to our sexual desires is imprinted at a very young age and it is almost impossible to get rid of it once it is imprinted.

PaulaQ

08-12-2013, 12:15 AM

Hi again, TheMissus. I'm going to fire back some fairly blunt questions - not because I'm trying to challenge you or to be mean, but just because I'm not so sure about your conclusions.

I am actually one who will disagree though as my H and I have had extensive counselling in this area and can pinpoint the very thing that got him on this path. Up until this point, (age 7 I think?) he hadn't a 'girl' thought in his head. Nothing. The idea never even occurred as it doesn't to most young boys.

My H started CD in large part because of how his father outright rejected him - and in small part - because his father rejected his sister less. (He also had incidents of being forced to wear his sister's clothing that sealed his fate, so to speak) That's it. My H soon took comfort in all things NOT his father (his mother's clothing, her perfume etc) and the path was made. Now here we are.

If his desire to dress is largely a result of a psychological shock / abusive childhood, then surely it's being well controlled with psychotherapy right? If so, then why are you here asking "Why MUST you progress?" If it's because you have found a solution for your husband, then congratulations, and tell us the secret - and sign me up for a triple shot of it. My opinion is that your husband's gender issue may very well have started with a trauma of some sort - but more as a psychological trigger for an underlying physical issue. Anxiety disorders work in this way. It is certainly possible that for some of us, there are gender issues with both a physical and a psychological component needed to trigger them. We don't really know one way or the other about this with TG, because frankly, no one gives enough of a damn to seriously study this, and it is fairly rare.

Would you ask your counselor about other physical disorders of the brain or body?

So I don't believe everyone here has a different brain gender anymore than I have a boy brain because I like to rock climb on occasion because it calms me down. I think SOME have gender dysphoria, while the rest unwittingly picked a path brought about by circumstances not of their doing. I mean, what little boy REALLY understands the hard reality of his future when he tries on that dress? None, of course. They're just doing what makes sense at that moment, as any child does.

And we would differentiate between people with GD and people with "something else" how? How does this serve any purpose other than to stigmatize a person for something that happened to them in childhood? What purpose would this idea serve, other than to provide an alternative to a simple, but potentially ghastly diagnosis? Again, it's useful why?

Anyway, I'm fairly certain male brains can decide to wear a dress too, so I'm firmly in the camp that gender dysphoria is a condition SOME here face, while others walk a very different path that COULD lead to addictive behaviour.

So why then do the following types of treatments help eliminate neither cross dressing, nor transsexualism:
- psychotherapy
- antidepressants, antianxiety medications, other psychoactive medications prescribed by physicians
- electro-convulsive therapy, or other, much gentler and actually ethical forms of behavior modification
- 12 step recovery programs
- other addiction treatment programs

So we have two independent conditions - gender dysphoria and cross dressing. They are independent because "much arm waving ensues - mostly because cross dressers and TS folks say they are independent"? Yet CD can be a symptom of GD. Both are unaffected by the same types of treatments that help other psychological or physical brain conditions. Yet we are certain there is no relation between the two? I mean, I'm not certain that there is - but it makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than the arm-waving bullshit I've read (not from you, dear TheMissus, I respect your opinion - in papers and such) that says they aren't. Maybe they aren't identical conditions, but are closely related, and this is confusing because both have some common symptoms, with "just a CD" being MUCH, MUCH, MUCH less severe.

Consider, for example, type I and type II diabetes. They ultimately have different root causes in most cases - but until newer medications were invented, the treatments for both were identical - insulin shots.

Sorry if this comes off kind of strong. I've thought about this a great deal, and I think that the medical community likely misses the boat on CD'ers even worse than they do on TS folks, because even the gender therapists and stuff I've spoken with generally don't give a shit about CD'ers. (I've asked.) I respect your opinion, and I have no idea whether or not I'm on the right track on all this, or not, but I just fail to see how your idea explains anything. I can't say with certainty that some types of psychological scarring and abuse situations couldn't lead to someone becoming a CD - it is possible that there really are multiple ways this stuff happens. But I still maintain that it is probable that there is a common, or small related set of biological issues that leads someone to react this way to certain stresses, and then ultimately makes it so compelling that even MASSIVE social pressures don't stop it.

DonniDarkness

08-12-2013, 12:50 AM

the reason treatment doesn't work is because its not an illness.

Societies intolerance to crossdressing is what causes people to become ill. being a crossdresser does not mean you are unhealthy, how you deal with crossdressing does effect your health

and Missus......there are women in this world who are attracted to femme guys.

-Donni-

TheMissus

08-12-2013, 02:11 AM

You mention lingerie and silky soft materials, so I'm guessing that for you the dressing is sensual and/or sexual. It's uncanny how powerful are sexual urges and this is why they come back with a vengeance after a period of abstinence, while the desire for alcohol for example, abates with abstinence. I think that sexual urges are among the most powerful that we humans have. The reason for this is pure biology. We have a primitive and fundamental desire to propagate our species. So, any behavior that is tied to our sexual desires is imprinted at a very young age and it is almost impossible to get rid of it once it is imprinted.

Reine, here you've described my H! There is and never was a 'girl inside'. He sexualised some very painful moments in his life many moons ago and to this day he is STILL a guy even when he looks uncannily like a woman. He dresses as the woman he'd like to have sex with - it's pure paraphilia and in no way related to gender dysphoria. That is a crock of BS in my book and denies men like my H understanding as I'm reading how so many here progress and go public and tell the children etc, but my H may NOT do any of these things because he likes to dress fully in private, orgasm and take it all off as fast as he can! It's an illusion that he lives, but he can no more quit doing it than the CD's with gender dysphoria as, like you mentioned, he's webbed this through his sexuality and it's bloody impossible to remove a fetish once it's imprinted. I think most psychologists would say impossible and instead they treat people with paraphilia like they do men who CD for gender dysphoria - they help them accept this part of themselves and incorporate it best they can into their life.

My only feeling on the biology of all this is that my H must have been genetically wired somehow to form a fetish. Or, they just randomly come upon a person at the right (or wrong) sexual developmental milestone. Erotic Target Location Error actually sums things up fairly well - for whatever reason, a combination of social, sexual and perhaps genetic issues misdirects a persons sexuality away from others and shifts it onto themselves or a body part or an object or situation or whatever. It's quite interesting and some scientists even think there may be some evolutionary benefit to paraphilia. Ha, as a wife I'm yet to discover it!

Anyway, thanks for understanding where I'm coming from :)

And Donni, I know plenty of women DO like femme men, but I was talking of men who present and pass (as best they can) as women - the average CD in other words. That's not a femme man - that's a woman, at least to the unsuspecting eye and that's a whole other ball game. I think women can and have evolved past the chest beating knuckle dragger and enjoy the things about men that JessM mentioned, but they're still presenting as men. It's the average CD who removes all trace of the man who will forever struggle and women can hardly be blamed for that. Heterosexual does not mean 'lesbian in disguise'. I know this will disappoint men all over the world, lol

Of course, if you're insanely hot, it's possible you can wear what you like and the girls will follow :)

PaulaQ

08-12-2013, 02:52 AM

He dresses as the woman he'd like to have sex with - it's pure paraphilia and in no way related to gender dysphoria. That is a crock of BS in my book and denies men like my H understanding as I'm reading how so many here progress and go public and tell the children etc, but my H may NOT do any of these things because he likes to dress fully in private, orgasm and take it all off as fast as he can!

1. What about MtF TS who seem to have a transvestic fetish, like your husband, but who eventually transition? What are they?
2.a - I'm glad your husband isn't apparently going to progress, that's really excellent news. Why'd you ask why some of us progress then?
2.b - Nobody but me thinks MtF CD suffer anything like GD. (That many who suffer from GD do CD is demonstrable - but they are not considered "just a CD".) For the most part though, as I said and as best I can tell, nobody in the medical community cares much one way or another about CD.
3. Many MtF TS have one or more paraphilias. This is something Blanchard observed, and as much as I dislike his conclusions, it seems like a sound observation. Indeed, his theory is that older MtF TS suffer from a paraphilia as you describe, but ultimately find the need to transition. So if Dr. Blanchard is correct, this condition could very well be progressive for someone like your husband.

So I again, ask what the point of the thread was? Are you trying to say some of us shouldn't find this stuff progressive - that it is some type of choice to progress? Or is that only true in the case of someone with autogynephilia, as your husband apparently suffers from? Or what are you implying?

edit: BTW, I wish I knew why my condition was progressing. It is progressing extremely rapidly. At it's present rate, I figure I have a (I hope) at least a few months before I totally break down and become either completely non-functional as a person, or just end it all. Maybe it's only a few weeks though. It is moving fast, and I am in serious trouble. (CD'ing helps a lot - but it's starting not to help as much. The Paxil and Buspar I take for anxiety helps a lot - but it's starting to not help as much. Too many more meds though, and I fear I won't do much else but sleep.)

So let me say that I hope you are correct, and that what your husband suffers from is different than what I suffer from, and won't be progressive. Because nobody should go through the hell I'm currently going through. I am by no means certain this stuff isn't going to kill me in relatively short order.

Vickie_CDTV

08-12-2013, 03:10 AM

TheMissus

08-12-2013, 05:21 AM

PaulaQ, you sound in a terrible place. I'm very sorry my question upset you - I was genuinely curious and concerned what I read here as my H has always insisted it's not progressive with him but I see now that for many other men it's not either. For some it is, and I now feel I understand why a little better. Maybe that also helps with my fears?

As for how you're doing, I can't imagine the pain you're feeling. Why do you think it's getting worse for you? If you could transition today do you think you'd feel better?

I'm really sorry you're unhappy and I also hope you don't harm yourself in any way. You might feel useless and pointless but you're not!!! You're part of all this and understanding won't come if people don't stick around!!

TheMissus

08-12-2013, 05:47 AM

Some studies indicate "ETLE" is more common in those who are introverted and/or have been abused (I am both) than the general population at large.

Given the profound effect abuse can have in determining how a child ends up, I can't image that it includes so many different facets of development but somehow sexuality magically is always excluded in every case.

You mean, people have sex?? OMG, we couldn't possibly acknowledge that! Let's pretend instead that all problems stem from non-sexual issues and leave all that icky sex stuff for the weirdos.

Yep, I'm a little cynical here too, lol. We've been through the ringer dealing with my H's CD and it's only after learning how important sexuality is for human development that I started to understand all this better. (My situation, that is - I'm in the dark still about CD as a whole).

Anyway, I remember reading something not long back about a mother worried about her teenage son who kept having sex with plush animals. He was also looking at hardcore Furry online porn etc. She asked the son outright WHY and he said he was always rejected by girls. In this case, a fetish began from something as basic as no girls were available.

Hormones and sexuality are HUGE deciders in who we become - I don't doubt this at all. It's just a shame we're all too squeamish to discuss it.

Angela Campbell

08-12-2013, 05:53 AM

I sometimes get the feeling that some here have seen things unfold for others...me for instance....that trouble them. My story has been here for all to see but understand that those like me are rare. Even on this site. Most of the men who crossdress are not a woman, and most will not end up in transition. Very few will.

Reading about the lives of people like me can be upsetting if you worry that your spouse will end up like me. He will not. At least the chances are overwhelming that it will not happen. I know reading about those who do progress and progress rapidly can make you sit down and think, and that can lead to fears and insecurities.

I know over a hundred crossdressing men who all have no desire to be a woman and just enjoy having some time to get dressed up and go have a little fun. For a lot of them it is much like a hobby. No harm no foul, they dress up, go out, have a good time, then resume a normal male life with their family and friends.

Yes it is pretty common for many to progress but very few progress..."all the way". I do not know you or your H at all so I cannot know but I can understand the concern. I wish you both well.

Andinera

08-12-2013, 06:22 AM

Why do rock climbers progress from 500ft cliffs to scaling icy waterfalls and solo cliffhangers. It amplifies that feeling we love and chase after.

DonniDarkness

08-12-2013, 10:00 AM

Of course, if you're insanely hot, it's possible you can wear what you like and the girls will follow :)Yes. Because to be insanely hot requires someone to carry themselves with confidence and conviction... no matter their gender or sexuality.

And Donni, I know plenty of women DO like femme men, but I was talking of men who present and pass (as best they can) as women - the average CD in other words. That's not a femme man - that's a woman, at least to the unsuspecting eye and that's a whole other ball game.Forgive me but this thread and the questions you have asked here are more aimed at YOUR view of your CD. A man putting on a dress and making an effort to pass does not make him a woman, that makes him a very good crossdresser/transvestite. If a CD or TV lives their lives as men then they ARE MEN, its not until the progression of hormones/surgery and living full time as a woman that this perception of both the world and their inner selves are changed permanently.

Some of us here have very healthy relationships with our spouses. A few of the members have stated such in this very thread. What all these relationships have in common is communication and an incredible effort to understand each other. This is something i see in your posts here and its why ive chosen to speak up.

Spouses of TG people go thru a transition too. You're in yours now. All the ish has hit the fan and now you're mentally scrambling to understand, feeling somewhat left behind and grabbing at the last bastion of masculinity from your husband.

But seriously dont worry, all of the spouses of CD's and TG people go thru this. Its going to make you question: sexuality, identity, social repecussions, your future, his future, and many many other things. Right now you're looking for anything to justify his actions and give yourself peace of mind about your own vanity as a woman. There is fear and anxiety that your family and friends will think lesser of you.

Im not saying all this to be mean. Im saying this because ive watched the woman i am in love with grow and develop with me. This is not my journey this is our journey.

The more you are involved in his life as a crossdresser, the more you come out as a TG/CD couple, and the more people you meet that have healthy relationships that exist within the enormous realm of Trans*...the more all of these fears and anxieties diminish. It's human nature to fear the unknown. When the unknown becomes known, it ceases to fuel these social, marital and self-identity issues.

My wife and i have been through a lot learning and soul searching in the last few years. When i came out to her 12 years ago, before we were married, we had no idea we would be where we are today. Our life together is strong outside of our self identities. We raise children. Own small businesses. All the while being out and involved in our local LGBT community.

Something that helped us the greatest aside from communication was getting involved in the local LGBT community. It gave us an insight to see that even though we may be different than most couples, there is a normalcy involved within our dynamic. Having friend in your life that you can vent to about whats going on in your relationship without the fear of being judged is also incredibly priceless.

All in all. If you don't progress together its not going to work.

the insanely hawt,

-Donni-

Trishpdxcd2

08-12-2013, 10:13 AM

Interesting thread. I know that dressing is more sexual for me than about dysphoria. Having said that, the more passable I am the more gratification I receive even when sex isn't involved. But I agree with how strong sexuality is and for me it is tied to my dressing even when sex isn't involved.

MysticLady

08-12-2013, 10:24 AM

Yes trust me...it goes by fast. And I would rather "progress" than become "stagnate"

I don't believe that progression is pre-ordained. You DO see a lot of people saying that here. I object every once and a while; everyone is different. One thing most of us genetic males who post here have in common is that we are actively involved in dressing to some degree or other, and we choose to be here.

Thank You Both for Helping me Understand Myself Better.

ElaineB

08-12-2013, 12:02 PM

One thing I saw pop up a few times was the desire for more acceptance and honestly, I don't think that's far off. Society is changing FAST and I don't doubt crossdressing will be boring to most people in the future.

Maybe... we can hope... but maybe not. GLBTQ crusaders have made a lot of progress in pushing tolerance but if you keep your eyes and ears open you will notice there are a lot of people out there who havent really changed in their dislike of anyone not vanilla-sexual... they just keep more quiet about it but they have not gone away. Big changes invite backlashes and we may see that too.

Anyway... on the central question:

There are many reasons why people crossdress... as many sets of complex reasons as there are crossdressers. We should all look at ourselves trying to figure out why we do what we do, because there is personal growth to be had there. That is probably the super-short answer to "why must we progress?" ... because it is simply natural to explore yourself.

However... we should make an effort to do that honestly! All of us ask ourselves why we do it at some point ... often in great length in forum posts... but too often people are obviously just looking for ways to rationalize doing what they want to do. Some people are willing to ask themselves if they are really women or men on the inside because that lets them carry on dressing... but not willing to ask themselves if maybe they are just looking for a way to escape stressful reality because that might lead to them not doing it. I think that sort of path is the one that leads to the broken marriages and disrupted families and similar trauma (and that was the real question was it not? "Why do some progress too far?")

Sticking labels on our reasons does not make them less any complex and it often does get in the way of figuring ourselves out. So you are a transsexual or an addict or a fetishist or gender-dysphoric or an abuse survivor... so what? People within these groups still have a zillion differences between them. If there is some actual useful information that goes with the label... take that onboard without letting yourself be pigeonholed.

ReineD

08-12-2013, 01:07 PM

My only feeling on the biology of all this is that my H must have been genetically wired somehow to form a fetish. Or, they just randomly come upon a person at the right (or wrong) sexual developmental milestone. Erotic Target Location Error actually sums things up fairly well - for whatever reason, a combination of social, sexual and perhaps genetic issues misdirects a persons sexuality away from others and shifts it onto themselves or a body part or an object or situation or whatever. It's quite interesting and some scientists even think there may be some evolutionary benefit to paraphilia. Ha, as a wife I'm yet to discover it!

The word "fetish" has, unfortunately, been associated with some sort of pathology as if it is somehow unhealthy to be attracted to something else than a partner. People do need to educate themselves about fetishes. There is an intensity scale with fetishes just as there is with any other human behavior. For some people it is a mild, harmless kink and it is not a preference over a partner. But for others, engaging in the fetish behavior is most definitely the preferred sexual activity which is not an issue for single people but if they are in relationships, it places the non-fetish partner in the unenviable position of taking second place to the fetish. This level obviously causes issues in relationships. And for the more extreme, rarer cases (this level and this level only is pathologized), the fetish takes over a person's life and has a decided negative impact on their concentration levels, their work, their relationships, their socializations (they will isolate themselves to engage in the fetish behavior), etc. This is when couples or an individual seeks help.

I'm not sure how fetishes develop (or, if you will, a sexual preference that is directed to something else than a partner whether it is an object or a scenario) ... whether someone is predisposed to cultivate a fetish, or if it does become imprinted on a person's sexual map sometime in their childhoods. Here's a link that offers a theory, so readers can judge for themselves:

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/to-each-his-own-men-and-fetishes/

I think that in your paragraph above you are describing the vast majority of CDers across the spectrum of fetish intensity ... and not necessarily the CDers who participate extensively here since this site does not allow sexual content; but certainly the CDers who visit the plethora of trans-sites devoted to the sexual aspect of the CDing. For example, Google will return millions of sites that have a sexual flavor vs. the few hundred CDers who post here on a regular basis, even if some of the CDers also visit those sites.

Many of our members who dress strictly for identity reasons whether they are TS or they are gender non-conforming (they fall somewhere between both genders), may have difficulty acknowledging the existence of cross gender expression for sexual reasons. A different scenario is the natural ebbing of libido in middle age as the result of diminishing testosterone. Often, CDers for whom it was sexual in their youths will have developed a bond, if you will, with the feminine persona so that in middle age she becomes an integral part of their inner being. I believe that it is at this point that thoughts of transsexualism or "transgenderism" +? (for some people) begin to manifest themselves simply because a person cannot explain otherwise, a desire for cross gender expression that is no longer mainly sexual. But, this is beside the point. For a lot of CDers (including, apparently, your husband although in all fairness we have not heard his take on this?) it is predominately a sexual thing and it is difficult to redirect sexual preference to a partner without a CDer's wish to do so and without professional help. But first, he must acknowledge that there is a problem and that he potentially risks losing his relationship over the fetish.

:2c:

Wildaboutheels

08-12-2013, 01:26 PM

It's really quite simple. Unless a female can look at 2 dimensional images of a man [OR a man's body parts] and "get ready" in as little as 30 seconds, SHE will NEVER understand.

CAN you do it?

Unless you are a female that is capable [and easily obtains] an O 99% of the time, with or w/o a partner, you will NEVER understand. Just as a man is never going to understand how "most" women can discuss a "problem" endlessly, [and be content] w/o ever discussing a "solution" that will easily solve or end the problem.

When and ONLY when men can become pregnant, will we [men] lose this "silly" vision thing, that easily enables us to achieve MEN'S most basic programming to impregnate as many females as possible.

PaulaQ

08-12-2013, 03:47 PM

@ TheMissus - I'm not upset. Let me tell you a short version of my story, and perhaps you'll see why I asked such pointed questions. (I'm typing this sitting in a doctor's waiting room, going in to talk about HRT).

So I always had kind of a fetish for legs, feet, and especially stockings and heels. The reason for this was completely obvious to me, I was born with crippled, deformed legs, and suffered greatly through surgeries, learning to walk, all sorts of unimaginably painful experiences. We won't even go into my Dad, that was bad too. So obviously I sexualized my early experiences - that's what I told myself.

Sound familiar so far?

So this time last year, once every 3-6 weeks, I'd masturbate while wearing stockings and sometimes panties. I bet I dressed up less than your spouse, and did this less frequently too. I didn't have much opportunity.

And yet here I sit, one year later, awaiting to discuss HRT, and praying for relief.

This stuff can change fast, the current theories suck, the medical establishment doesn't care mostly, and the idea that having a transvestic fetish means someone won't transition is flat out wrong.

Watch for signs that things are getting worse, not so much dressing more, but worsening emotional condition when not dressing.

Marleena

08-12-2013, 03:58 PM

@ Missus.

From what I have see here some don't progress at all. Many find a comfort zone and are happy with it too. It depends where they are on the gender spectrum. I can understand wives panicking though. A very small minority will discover or finally accept they are TS. The numbers may seem larger here only because this is an MTF board. Your SO will know where he's going with it.

MatildaJ.

08-12-2013, 04:34 PM

Watch for signs that things are getting worse, not so much dressing more, but worsening emotional condition when not dressing.

Good advice. Thanks, Paula, and here's hoping that your appointment goes well and you get some relief soon.

MissTee

08-12-2013, 10:38 PM

Gheesh, this is becoming quite the cocktail party post. Got room for one more?

So, I like dressing because I like dressing. That's all. Wife of 35+ years knows and supports. We have fun with it. I do NOT want to "progress" or transition or change. I like being a man, doing man stuff, etc. Being a husband in all ways. Dressing gives me a creative outlet and it allows me to channel off stress. I so enjoy that. Not sure why, but don't care to analyze it for value because not everything that feels good needs an explanation.

My wife and I share dressing time in private. Makes for some fun adult get aways :o. I don't want to "share" with the kids, neighbors, community. If I can digress and offer a fitting analogy: I like to go bowling, but I do not want to bowl for a living. Same goes for Cd-ing. I will always be just a dude in a dress, but it has its advantages.

BTW, it urks my wife that my hooters are removable. Says it's an unfair man-vantage. :danceman:

Lainie

08-12-2013, 11:30 PM

Addiction is defined by habituation & withdrawal. Those who dress for the thrill of forbidden fruit become habituated when small steps are not scary anymore, & suffer boredom in withdrawal of the thrill. There is also the sense of accomplishment in doing a difficult thing & developing a skill.

Everyone can rationalize to justify their own behavior in any area, CDing included. However, it is apparently true that CDing itself is not harmful, since many suffer no significant ill effects. People who suffer do so because it drives a wedge between them and people they care about (love, work, ...). A big factor here is disparity of experience. CDers tend to be secretive, so they habituate while those around them remain unaware. Hard to preserve relationships that way. Hence many report success when disclosure happens early in a relationship, failure when it happens after a long period of secrecy.

Almost all divorces are due to other causes. Why couldn't those people just learn to get along?

Leona

08-12-2013, 11:44 PM

I didn't read the rest of the thread, so my apologies if someone else covered this ground.

I read often here of progression so I have to ask - why MUST your dressing progress from whatever minor place it started into a daily nightmare where wives are lost, children are told and extended families broken apart? Why can't you exert some form of self control over the progression? Surely this is part of living in the human race. Surely we can all agree that a society where people indulge entirely in their own needs is not a society that will survive. We'll be scratching our butts with the monkeys in no time.

Why did you progress to grow up to be a woman? Why didn't you stop before it became a problem?

At some level, it's a problem of acceptance. We have to grow up just like GGs do. We have to become adult CDers. Unfortunately, that means for many of us, we're kid CDers in our 30s. But we still have to grow up, and we'll make mistakes along the way, and probably ruin somebody's life in the process (most likely ours, after hurting a few people).

I'm thinking something happened with your H that I'd know if I'd read the whole thread...

2.b - Nobody but me thinks MtF CD suffer anything like GD. (That many who suffer from GD do CD is demonstrable - but they are not considered "just a CD".) For the most part though, as I said and as best I can tell, nobody in the medical community cares much one way or another about CD.

I agree with you. I think I was a MTF CD suffering from GD, and accepting it and moving on cleared it up. No dysphoria now. I don't think in a heartbeat this is true for all who suffer GD. Everybody's different. I DO think that for some it is possible to clear up the dysphoria through self-acceptance and self-expression. For others, not so possible. Your own story tells us that.

PaulaQ

08-13-2013, 04:00 AM

Good advice. Thanks, Paula, and here's hoping that your appointment goes well and you get some relief soon.

Well, it went OK - I liked the doctor. I've been having trouble getting a letter for HRT from my therapist. "We shouldn't need a psychologist to tell us what we need," is her philosophy. Unfortunately, in this state, the law says that I need precisely that. I'm talking to her about this, hopefully she'll relent. If not, I'll find another therapist and start over, waiting a while for HRT. FML KMN. I'm pretty depressed. Sorry for the OT.

Nevermind what I said. I'm sure everyone here is just fine, and nobody progresses unless they want to. As for me, I'll bow out. God obviously hates me anyway - that's the obvious explanation for my life thus far. I'm just cursed, what can I say?

Amanda M

08-13-2013, 04:45 AM

Missus - progression to transition is NOT inevitable. Far from it, and a very small percentage of crossdressers go down that route. I am a plain vanilla crossdresser, and nobody is going to interfere with my male bits, thanks!

Why did they turn out to be crossdressers? My take is that it is a multi factorial issue, with genetics family environment and peer pressure all playing a part, all at different levels through the entire process of our growth as human creatures.

Now, I´m going to stick my neck out. Crossdressing is to a great extent, narcissistic activity, hence, for example, the large number of posts on the photo form and the "Am I passable? How pretty am I? type of posts. And yes, of course, if I am correct, that since I crossdress, I share that approach to a certain extent.

It is a marked facet of narcissism that the narcissist comes first, often at the expense of friends and relatives, and I´m quite sure that we have all noticed posts on here that are clearly in that vein. I wonder, if the trait of narcissism is prevalent to a degree in our community, how much that has to do with a person´s movement along the transgender spectrum over time. Worth looking at, maybe.

NicoleScott

08-13-2013, 07:40 AM

...why MUST your dressing progress from whatever minor place it started into a daily nightmare where wives are lost, children are told and extended families broken apart? Why can't you exert some form of self control over the progression?

This isn't a flogging, but I think your question is flawed, when you assume that the inevitable endpoint is a train wreck. Not so. With some exceptions we can and do progress but keep it in balance and live a normal life.
Progress -from what - to what? Different answers for each of us. My journey is far different from the one who, at a very young age, knew that his identity was a mismatch from others' expectations based on his genetalia. If transition is the only good outcome, it's a long and difficult progression, with crossdressing being one of the stages from here to there (him to her). My progression isn't anything like that. I have always dressed for pleasure, just a guy who likes to dress up occasionally, and I have progressed as well, but in a different way. For me, progress is about developing the look that pleases me. It didn't happen overnight.
Progress in any form doesn't have to end as you suggested.