Passing With a Question

[Aly Cat]

So I was reading a few posts around the site and they made me think about some interesting questions.

If we lived in a perfect world where everyone accepted everyone and society had absolutely zero problems with crossdressing/transgender, would passing still be important to you? It appears the majority of those here try to pass to blend in and be the fly on the wall, but if you were wholly accepted for you being you, would you still go through the stages of wig, makeup, hip pads etc trying to emulate? Where does that desire stem from? Is it to be accepted or does it root itself deeper in the heart of being in the wrong body? I understand that for TS, it is more of being who you feel you were meant to be in the first place.
It just makes me think that if acceptance was in fact there and readily available, what lengths would you take when going out in public? Also, would you have a more individual appearance and style due to not having to try and emulate or fit in? How would that style change, and shouldnt we focus more on that if we are working towards acceptance as a society?
Just a few thoughts to bake the noodle I guess.

[Amanda63]

Oh My Yesss. To be able to dress up without the fears crossdressers have would be devine.

[Ellie52]

Eva
I would be more than happy to wear just the clothes as it is the feeling that I get wearing them that pleases me. BUT and its a big BUT, I love the look of Ellie when I look in the mirror. This is only a relatively new experience for me but I have been out dressed as Ellie and as far as I could tell no one noticed I wasnt what I appeared to be. But would I do that on a regular basis. I dont think so, the trouble is its human nature always to want more, so who can tell. At present I love wearing the clothes and I underdress all the time, wearing as much as I can get away with. I still let Ellie out occasionally but it is hard work with all the makeup and stuff I have to be in the mood. You can see why GG's often dont bother....Ellie

[Michelle (Oz)]

I don't fully dress to be the fly on the wall nor am I 'in the wrong body'. I fully dress to feel OK with myself presenting female - transforming is part of the magic. My style wouldn't change. I already dress as I want to, age inappropriate and all. My voice is a giveaway and I enjoy interacting when I'm out so no fly on the wall.

My only concession in the perfect world would be occasionally to use less makeup - save time and $.

[Jenniferathome]

...

If we lived in a perfect world where everyone ....

We don't. Moot point.

[julia marie]

In that world, I'd be happy to be accepted, rather than worried about "passing". That said, I'd still want to do makeup, wig, skirts, etc. I hope the female look wouldn't go away, not matter who was wearing it. I love it. However, as Jenniferathome notes, the perfect world isn't happening. So, we make do with what we have.

[Wildaboutheels]

"It just makes me think that if acceptance was in fact there and readily available,..."

These Forums are full of folks who make no attempt whatsoever to pass. Don't wear wigs. Or forms or makeup. And have had few if ANY problems from Mean Ol' unaccepting John Doe public.

Maybe you think they are ALL lying?

FACT: Wear what you want, treat people right and the chances are really good, that most people will treat you the same.

The real CDing "enemy" for most folks here, can be found in the nearest mirror.

[Kate Simmons]

I never do any less than the whole "nine yards" when I go en femme. I used to think it was my own personal "standards of excellence" but it goes much deeper than that. Not everyone here will believe or agree with the reasons. I have been female many times previously and I am invoking those personas when I dress. This is why for myself, it amounts to much more than being a "guy in a dress".:)

[Rachel Morley]

Hummm ... interesting question. Well, if truthfully everyone really did accept everyone and society had absolutely zero problems at all with us, then speaking for myself, yes, passing would be less of an issue for me. It's not a huge issue at the moment, as (depending on the venue) I'm not usually too bothered if I get read but knowing that when I did get read there would never be a problem would be better and make me be a little less focused on some of the details, like how long I spend on my makeup, and making sure my deportment is as feminine as I can make it. I would probably not bother with hip and bottom padding all the time either, although I do prefer my shape when there a suggestion of hips so maybe I wouldn't change that much at all. :strugglin:

[Aly Cat]

In terms of being in a perfect world being a moot point, my questions were more to get to the heart of what it all means for you ladies and get your opinions. True the world is not perfect, but working towards an age of acceptance has to start somewhere, and where would that be? Is it based on individuality and uniqueness or rooted in something else? Not so much focusing on the world being perfect.

Also, i agree about a lot of those on this site not trying to pass or blend in. I myself am one of them. I dont own a wig or hip pads or anything other than the clothes. No makeup either. I know who i am. I am uniquely and individually made and am proud of that fact. If you read my other posts in general youll find that this is the case for me. Mainly i just wanted to know how you would present yourselves if you were free to wear whatever you wanted whether it already is the same as you do now or different. Focusing on the internal rather than so much the external. A perfect world is something you work for and i just wanted to dig a bit deeper than just surface stuff.
Making points about the world not actually being perfect is just arguing semantics.

[Jodi]

Oh My Yesss. To be able to dress up without the fears crossdressers have would be devine.

Amanda, That fear you speak of is in you, not everyone. Personally, I have no fear about cd'ing. I go where I want to go and do what I want to do. The power to do things comes from within. You can conquer your own fears.

Jodi

[Brooklyn]

In a perfect world, I would have been born as Beyonce or Catherine Zeta-Jones. In this world, however, I do not care about passing or blending in. I prefer people notice me, appreciate my effort and skill, and pay for my drinks.

[Deedee Skyblue]

One of the things I enjoy about underdressing and stealth dressing is that I am getting away with something that is forbidden. I definitely like wearing skirts and heels, but I also like the feeling of 'getting away with it'. So in a world of perfect acceptance, I'd have to find something else forbidden (but not ethically or morally wrong) to get away with.

Deedee

[Aly Cat]

I enjoy the thrill of it as well when it comes to "getting away with it" but for me, i would much rather enjoy just being myself and wearing what i want. The funny thing is that it is because of those dearest to me that i even care what anyone at all thinks of my dressing. To me, dressing is an inner desire for freedom of expression and the love of fashion. Being tied down to one particular form of clothing is not only boring but also does not fully express how i feel inside. To me, its the other side of my coin.
My wife has asked me before that if i am able to play both sides as male and female what do i need her for? I have to admit thats a tough question to answer. In fact i still dont have an answer. I know that i desire to have her in my life and that it is because of all of the good qualities she brings to the table that i want her beside me but she doesnt see things that way and sadly she didn't like my response.
I personally would not ever totally try and pass. Id play with makeup and whatnot but not to make me look more feminine. It would be because of the artistry that goes into it, like the shadings of eyeshadow etc. Id rock the beard while dressed. I like facial hair almost as much as shoes.....wait, scratch that....bad example. I really really love shoes. Umm....well lets just say having a beard is another form of art. Once again, it's about freedom of expression for me. Anyways, enough rambling from me. Deep inside i know that it is just another facet of what makes me shine. It takes many facets to give a diamond its sparkle. I think we all should be allowed to sparkle and shine like the sun.

[AllieSF]

Perfect world or not, it is an interesting question, so to me it is not so mute of a point. I have no issues going out. The difference it may make to me over the long run, is that I might decide to come out to those who only know my male side. At the present time I have no need to come out because there is no need to tell anyone. I think that maybe the main thrust of this question is directed toward those who want to go out but have whatever fear of doing so. I don't pass but I do blend well. I always dress completely when going out and I do not think that it would change. Maybe I would try even more edgy outfits, or maybe .... who knows?

I would guess that some of my conversations with strangers would be different because I would not need to explain the why and would hopefully not be the only male if female clothing that they run into. Maybe that would dampen some of the fun that I have when out, but I would guess that it would not.

[Tracii G]

Dressing 100% enfemme you bet I would want to pass.Why ruin the illusion?

[Brittany CD]

I dress purely for me, not for others. When I dressed as a woman, as I am right now, I try passing because it's a fun experience I do for me. So yes, I would still try to pass because I simply want to

[Jenny CD]

Amanda, That fear you speak of is in you, not everyone. Personally, I have no fear about cd'ing. I go where I want to go and do what I want to do. The power to do things comes from within. You can conquer your own fears.

Jodi

I agree with you fully Jodi. I go out to eat, ride the bus, sometimes I go for walks... Maybe to the store or whatever. I don't feel I need to be hidden in a car or at home. What's the point of getting all dolled up if I don't go out and enjoy myself, meet new people, date, experience life? That's for me, anyway.

[Beverley Sims]

I would still endeavour to emulate a complete woman. It is the "artist" in me. :)

[Maria S]

Part of me would not want crossdressing to be fully accepted. Why you ask? A typical gg does not go round dressed in a female manner even though they have have wardrobes and clothes shops full of feminine clothes but prefers to wear items like jogging bottoms and t-shirts (typically unisex clothes). To me I do that in male mode anyway as most men do. As a CDer I dress in a feminine manner with skirts, tights and tops etc.

As a comparison when I watch old television programmes both UK an USA from the 70s and 80s even though the fashions are out of date women dressed like women. Today I would rather it be accepted for women to be generally dressed in a feminine way as I do in girl mode rather than it be accepted for CDers in general and end up wearing non feminine girl clothes.

I hope this kinda makes sense, I know what I mean but its not easy to put into words.

Maria

[BillieAnneJean]

If it was a perfect world I would still put all the effort in to the full transformation with the pads, corset, forms, false eyelashes, fake nails, tucking, taping, and so on. That serves two purposes:
The first is for my pleasure at the reflection when I pass any reflective surface. I love to be out and see Billie in a window or mirror.
The second purpose is for the pleasure of knowing that I look good, also for me.

But in this world I do all of the work because it also reduces my risk. As always the burden is on them should they choose to confront a suspected crossdresser. If they make a mistake, if it is in a public place, if there are other non homophobic persons around, if there are any GGs around, if the cder reacts just like a woman would, then they could face public derision for offending a woman. But I do avoid places where there is a potential for any problems. My range dressed is much smaller than when not, similar to a GGs. It is such a disgrace to humanity that nearly sixty years after the first moon landing that woman and anyone of slight build needs to fear anyone who has the physical advantage.

[Lynn Marie]

Perfect world? I wouldn't change a thing. I've always enjoyed the feel of women's clothing. The look is a more complex consideration that I've learned to enjoy as well. The feeling is always delightful, the look is always evolving.

[Amy Lynn3]

Billie said it as well, as I could have ever placed my thoughts in words.. Her comments express my thoughts to a tee, in answer to your question. Good morning Billie !

[Cheryl T]

Were we in that perfect world, then yes I would still be me and presenting as I do...perhaps minus the padded panty as that's the only thing that I wish I could lose, but it gives me that shape people expect from a woman and so helps me blend in.

[Paula DAngelo]

I think this is an interesting question that's being asked and at least for me it goes to a deeper question that I've been asking myself for a while and finally got the strength to answer for myself. Why do I do this, cross dressing I mean. You hear all kinds of reasons on this site, I like the feel of the clothes, I like the way the clothes look, I like the way I look when I'm dressed, it relaxes me and relieves stress, and many others all the way up to I feel like I'm in the wrong body. I've used all the "excuses" and probably many others so I didn't have to accept what I've come to realize is the real reason that I like to dress. I dress so that my outside appearance matches with the inner me. This isn't something that's been easy to accept but it is what it is. So to answer the original question, would I still go thru with all the preparation if dressing was accepted by the world, my answer is YES, because I'm not dressing for the world, I'm dressing for myself so that what I see and feel match. The only down side to all of this is now that I've been able to accept myself, I just have to figure out what I can do to make things right. Like someone once said "Life's never easy".

[Tina B.]

So, the question is would you still go to all the trouble with wigs and make up, WELL OF COURSE I WOULD! I don't wear the wig to pass, I don't wear the boobs to pass, I don't even wear the hip pads to pass, I wear it all to make me feel more feminine than I do when I don't wear them.
Many days around the house I'll just throw on a pair of capris and a tee, because they are comfortable, and it's easy, but if Want to feel good about myself, and my look, it takes it all, hair, makeup and waist cincher, pads, and all, that wouldn't change.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Clothes dont do it for myself no matter what i wear, has nothing at all that changes who i am. to day like many days , im around at my friends place repairing her house, iv rebuilt her kitchen redone the carpert & lino. and now painting this was a bedroom now a room to show off the Edwardian clothes , not for myself because they are size 8 to 10 too small for myself they are lovely .

I wear my skirt & top just as i do most days & just change into my work clothes short's & top & bib overalls, now has any thing changed only the clothes . im still who i am well you all know a female. so what im saying im still who i am no matter the clothes, or work or where i go.

remember no wig's makeup or any thing that would change how i look, whats the word trying to hide myself or be some one else, or look like someone else, every one knows me . passing ya i may have long ago i know i did , thats just not what its about for myself, or hideing behind my wigs' as i did,

i dont fool any one, nore would i fool you or others here on this forum. you meet me youll just see who i am what i am a real person not some one who's not who they are,

For myself its so hard explaining in words, what am i trying to say, im too well known involved with too many people i hold a rank in our groups, on commitees work in the community & well accepted,

I think the ? would be how would i hide myself now, how would i dress up & not be known. here's a thought ,we's had about 15 men here redoing the road path's & drains system for about 5 weeks & when i go to the Village i pass them though youll know about how that goes , i stop & talk with them allmost every day im out down the road, yes i know small talk , well they natter with me no issues, so is that passing or being accepted in passing, i can talk thier langage work wise they know im a builder, so theres detail incommon,

So maybe passing is different for myself , its not just about how you look is it its who you are as a person, in my case you know what that is,

...noeleena...

[NicoleScott]

For many, acceptance (or lack of it) has nothing to do with dressing. We do it for our own unique satisfaction, pleasure, or even some unknown reason. Some members malign the closet dresser, saying they are full of fear and shame. Maybe they are revealing something about themselves, but they cannot speak for others, especially those they don't know except for their posts. Many closet dressers are perfectly happy to do their thing in private, with no compelling reason to venture out. Acceptance is irrelevant for them.

[zorianacd]

I prefer people notice me, appreciate my effort and skill, and pay for my drinks.

This sums it up very nicely for me. I don't need the drinks though. It's hard enough to walk in heels.

[Ally 2112]

I would love to be able to pass less worries and easier to shop also i know im at a point in my life where i know i want to take that next step .But for now i shall remain in the closetuntil i figure it out .Which could take a while:)

[cdtraveler]

Yes and no. The more I accept that part of me loves feminine things, things like presenting more feminine hands nails, taking better care of my skin and hair, smelling pretty - things like that are becoming as fulfilling to me as dressing to the nines to try and pass. It's the process, the things that say I deserve to be pampered that is the essence of the female that I like and even need. AMANDA

[Aly Cat]

A lot of really good answers here. Its nice to know that those who go all out when dressing has more to do with how it makes them feel "as a lady" than doing it for everyone else. That speaks volumes. See, the fact of the matter is...why do women do it? Because they like how it makes them feel, they like the attention they get, and they enjoy being done up. It has nothing to do with "what is expected of them" or anything like that. Its an inward thing. Thats kind of what i was getting at. No one should strive for the approval of others to find happiness. It has to come from within. If i could have my way, i would still wear guys clothes sometimes and womens clothes other times. I would in fact wear makeup like blemish consealer and eyeshadow/mascara and lipgloss just because its what i like, though i would probably keep the facial hair. I have my own unique style and i think it works for me so its what makes me happy. I think all of you ladies are unique and awesome as individuals and i think you all should have all the confidence in the world to be yourselves regardless of what world we live in. Thumbs up to all of you!

[GeorgeA]

Eva Lynn,
Since I do not try to look as a woman now, in a perfect world I would be very happy to be just a guy in a skirt. (gis)

[Chickhe]

I am pretty sure I dress up only for myself. So being accepted would just mean I could be more free to do it in front of the neighbors, for example. but its almost the case where we can dress and go out and not be bothered most of the time. The root of the questions is 'why do we CD' and I doubt we will ever have an answer.