The inextricable link between CDers and Gay people...

[Wildaboutheels]

that seems to reside in the minds of so many people.

So many CROSSDRESSERS it would seem. Not that it is going to change anyone's mind...


I have a feeling there is a H U G E gap between "most" gay people and how "most" are DEPICTED on TV? Admittedly, I watch very little network TV [where I think most gay people might be found?] and I don't do "comedy" of any type [where I think most gay people would be found?] They DO seem to always include at least one gay man or woman on every season of Survivor. [which I happen to think is a good thing]

Can we get some FACTS please? How many of you have gay friends and how do you KNOW they are gay? Unless they TOLD you personally? Did you "suspect" them for any reason before they told you. I'm sure if you are a CDer and not a GG, that you have checked for nail polish, shaving/removal of hair other than face, walk or talk "wrong", "wrong" mannerisms etc. How many gay men do any of that? Some? Few? Most?

I suspect we all probably have at least a couple of gay friends that we don't even know about? No reason for them to tell us their "leaning" is it? Might we also have some CDing friends that we don't know about? It's not like men stand around in a group discussing their latest lingerie purchases.

[DonnaT]

One friend in high school had effeminate mannerisms, played the flute, and was the bands drum major. Never saw him with a date. He hung out with the girls all the time. And was a great baton twirler.

Gay or not gay.

40 years later, he's still teaching baton twirling. He's also married and has a couple of daughters.

Not gay.

Can't judge a book by its cover.

[Jenny CD]

Two of my co-workers are gay. They told me.... I didn't ask, they offered the info. One is bi. Again, he offered the info. But, it was pretty easy to see because we all met up by accident at a gay club! It's funny, because they didn't recognize me at all. I stood next to them for 15 or 20 minutes before I finally told them who I was. Funny stuff!

But, you know... it's no big deal. Why care what a person does in their own bedroom or in the privacy of their home? None of my dam business.

[Tamara Croft]

One of my ex work colleagues is gay, he didn't actually tell us, but it was obvious. When he did finally tell us, we just all said... yeah we know lol :) My nephew is openly gay, I think I knew before he did. From the age of maybe 4 or 5, he was just very flamboyant, into pretty frilly things, didn't really like boys things etc... I don't know if that is a gay thing, but he absolutely loved the fairy angel we got him to put on the xmas tree one year... that's not really a boy thing is it? I have a gay neighbour, although he's an ass... Do I look for those things? hell yes lol... and I'm a GG ;)

[Beverley Sims]

I am out looking for the inextricable link right now. :)

Network TV has a lot of gay people working in it.
I think most artistic talent has to have a sprinkling of gays, I call them theatrically articulate.
I have worked with them and we have an understanding... They don't pat me on the bum and I leave them alone.
I never suspect them as being gay but if they are doing touchy feely in a dressing room then who am I to deny it.

I have a couple of gay friends that came out to me and they have been GOOD friends because I never shied away from them.
Cd friends are a lot less on the radar.

[Marleena]

I don't have gaydar. My wife does though. She asked me about some new neighbors a few years ago. I said it's a guy and his son. When she finally saw them she said they were a gay couple. Sure enough all guy parties during the summer.:) They got ran out of the neighborhood though. I live in a transphobic/homophobic city. *sigh*

Some are flamboyant enough they should be easy to spot.

Most Cders are not gay<---- that one is for the GG's.

[Tamara Croft]

Most Cders are not gay<---- that one is for the GG's.unless they are wearing blue eyeshadow :raspp:

[Marleena]

LMAO Oh yeah look for blue eye shadow. It's a dead giveaway.:heehee:

[Princess Grandpa]

I have many friends that are part of the lgbt community. Heh they were friends before I came to understand I was part of the same community. /giggle. I always thought I was just a straight ally. It never occurred to me I was a cross dresser. I'm not gay, how could I be a transvestite? How do I know they are gay or lesbian or bi? Because they are my friends. (Close acquaintances).

Some years ago when I took over the business from my mother, one of our residents had several pairs of ladies jeans in his closet. I took him shopping and helped him buy the "right jeans". Knowing what I know today I worry greatly about having done this. I hope they were purchases made in error (not unlikely) instead of a need to express a feminine side. In recent shopping trips we are trying to read his desires as he looks at clothing. Sending him off on his own to pick things rather than having us all there looking over his shoulder. So far I have seen no pull towards the ladies side of the aisle. But I think back often and hope I didn't mess with his mind over something I was too ignorant to understand.

Donna a wife and kids is not necessarily evidence someone isn't gay.

Hug
Rita

[Jamsey]

I met my first openly gay guy in 1969, out in Seattle WA. He hit on me in a bar, offered to give my a ride back to Fort Lewis, which I refused, nicely. Had an interesting discussion with him. He bought me a couple drinks but he still didn't get into my pants, lol. No ride either, though, took the military bus. A couple of guys in the army I thought were gay. I didn't dress at that time. In the late 70s early 80s, I met a bunch of gays at American Motors where I worked. Especially lesbians. It seemed like a group of them decided to work together and transferred to this one area. They were fun to work with. Talk about some wild times. For the most part they didn't care who knew their sexual orientation and management left them alone as long as they did their job. I knew more gays over the years, I didn't pre-judge and was/is interested in their life, got them to talk, Even where I work now there are a lot of gays who are out, that is in the State Governmnet in Wisconsin. We are now under Republican control in this state and I worry if they are going to imitate what is going on in some other states. But for the most part in Wisconsin, and especially in Madison, LGBTs are accepted, and they can live a normal lifestyle. But, of course, there are the bigots/racists/misogynists in every state, and the tea party seems to be encourage their bad behaviors. It is scary sometimes to think what may happen if they get further control of government.
Me, I'm not gay, but maybe I just haven't met one that can trip my trigger, if you know what I mean. But that will be hard, that trigger is very very hard to pull....lol

[Kate Simmons]

I honestly never think about it as I look at folks for who they are as a person. Unless they tell me, I could care less what they are. You'd figure most that go to my(LGBT) club would be gay, but not necessarily. Some, especially the college kids just like the dance floor and go to dance. Some others go to people watch. Of course we know that anyone who wears blue eye shadow is definitely gay though, right?:heehee::)

[Beth Wilde]

Hmmm, I'm a gay CD with blue eye shadow..... Spooky! lol

[GaleWarning]

Quite a few of my teacher colleagues are gay. You would never know it, unless you met their SOs.
I have a gay cousin, who floored the whole family when she came out in 2000. She is now a grandmother.
And my best friend ever has a son who is gay. I still have the letter he read to me when he came out. It speaks of his pain on many levels.

[Marleena]

Hmmm, I'm a gay CD with blue eye shadow..... Spooky! lol

Oh yes and cute too.:) I'm a lesbian TS and like silver eye shadow.. Hmmm...

[boink]

How do you know someone is gay? They tell you.

I have a bunch of LGBTQ friends. There might be a few people I know who are not openly out, but given my age, social circles, etc. I think it's probably a small number at this point.

[jenni_xx]

Hi Wildaboutheels

Quick question - where is it exactly that you think most gay people would be found again?

A fictional person in a fictional programme is, dare I say it, fictional.

And in such fictional programmes, why DOES it seem like they always include at least one gay man or woman?

How many of our friends are gay? Differs from person to person. Just as it differs from person to person as to how many of their friends are women, or men, or black, or white. An approximate statistic (it can only ever be approximate) would suggest that for every 10 people we know, one is gay. Yet similar stats have been attributed to those who crossdress. Putting that in simple terms, that would equate to every 1 in 10 crossdressers being gay. Yet we have become bracketed with the gay community, so a perception has been created - if you crossdress, people will assume that you are gay. Interestingly however, people don't automatically assume that all gay people crossdress.

"Gaydar" might have some explaining to do. People often claim that they can spot a gay person without need for that gay person to identify themselves as gay. I think the best term for that is assumption. Yet there isn't a "cross-dar" - at least not as far as I am aware.

So to extend on your post - I suspect that if we know more than 10 people, then we SHOULD suspect that at least one of them is gay, and at least ONE of them is a crossdresser. The likelihood of us knowing at least one person who has come out as gay and at least one person who has come out as a crossdresser however...

[Wildaboutheels]

A bunch of great answers so far ladies which more or less confirm what I thought. The only gay man I have ever known "for a fact" is/was gay, told me so. I would never have suspected otherwise. I have also had a couple of "supposedly" gay female couples [according to other neighbors] live a few doors down but they seemed perfectly "normal" to me.

[Kimberly Kael]

The connection between the two is entirely understandable, IMHO, and is part of the reason trans* folk are included in the LGBT umbrella: we represent an uncommon variation on the typical sexual dichotomy. Most people grow up exposed to a few seemingly invariant "truths" about men and women, and so of course they put everyone who doesn't fit into the same pile. The fact that there are subdivisions within the realm of gender variance is a subtlety ignored by most people who don't have a reason to learn more about the subject.


I have a feeling there is a H U G E gap between "most" gay people and how "most" are DEPICTED on TV?

Of course. There's also a huge gap between how families/lawyers/women/police/scientists etc. are depicted and the reality. Television isn't reality.


Can we get some FACTS please? How many of you have gay friends and how do you KNOW they are gay?

I have quite a few LGBT friends of all descriptions. I know in some cases because they told me, in others because of the political context in which we met, others because I've met their partners/wives/husbands, still others because some relevant story about dating or other social connections made it clear that they've been romantically attached/interested in someone of the same sex.

Honestly, it's the same way you know someone is straight. It's the default assumption for most people, I know, but after a while in queer spaces you start to lose that assumption. Likewise for gender identity. It's no longer "obvious" to me how someone identifies. I'm open to a lot more possibilities than I once was on that front, and wouldn't be the least bit surprised to discover a lot more variety among friends and coworkers than is readily evident on the surface.

[Princess Grandpa]

With my pink polka dot phone case, my painted nails, and the occasional pair of women's pants or shorts, I figure everyone I encounter assumes I'm gay. /shrug

Hug
Rita

[Allison Chaynes]

To go back to the OP, whenever CDs are depicted on TV and in pop culture, they are almost always depicted as either gay or there for comedic purposes. RuPaul does not help, as his show creates the impression with most people that all CDs are Drag Queens who love drama.

Also, I really try hard to avoid anything political here, but Jamsey, please research what a political movement actually is about before equating it with anti-gay or anti (insert popular misconception here) statements. That is all I will say.

[kimdl93]

I work with an organization that has many gay clients and even board members. Some of the board members, for example, don't seem "gay" at all, but are. And a few are a bit more apparently gay. None of these people yet know about me. they just think I'm a tolerable straight guy with good administrative skills.

the most apparently effeminate guy in my grade school turned out not to be gay...or his wife and kids are excellent beards. you can't as DonnaT said, tell every book by its cover. Unless you wait for the paperback or ebook editions!

[RebeccaLynne]

So many CROSSDRESSERS it would seem. Not that it is going to change anyone's mind...

I have a feeling there is a H U G E gap between "most" gay people and how "most" are DEPICTED on TV? Admittedly, I watch very little network TV [where I think most gay people might be found?] and I don't do "comedy" of any type [where I think most gay people would be found?] They DO seem to always include at least one gay man or woman on every season of Survivor. [which I happen to think is a good thing]

Wild, I've been a dedicated fan of "Survivor", and although there's been a lot of gays, I've not seen even one admit to crossdressing... I feel we're under represented. That's why I love "RuPaul's Drag Race"... at least the contestants there know how to dress!


How many of you have gay friends and how do you KNOW they are gay? Unless they TOLD you personally? Did you "suspect" them for any reason before they told you. I'm sure if you are a CDer and not a GG, that you have checked for nail polish, shaving/removal of hair other than face, walk or talk "wrong", "wrong" mannerisms etc. How many gay men do any of that? Some? Few? Most?

At least one of my co-workers is gay, and lots of guys make jokes about it. He is a real sweetheart, and has recently began electrolysis, just to eliminate the need to shave... I'm sure he doesn't CD, though he would be cute as a girl... :daydreaming: And he is a bit taller than me... might be fun to go out as girlfriends!

Anyway, I knew he was gay from the first time I met him. Mannerisms, gestures, voice inflection, and eye contact... I'm straight, but I do really respect and admire gay guys for "owning it"... I think we have a connection, as in I have his back insofar as defending his right to be himself, and I've been real vocal in defending and aggressively advocating the rights of individuals to free expression at work and wherever they happen to be. Guilty as charged: I'm very militant!


Might we also have some CDing friends that we don't know about? It's not like men stand around in a group discussing their latest lingerie purchases.

I wish... I've soo much to share in that conversation! :heehee:


unless they are wearing blue eyeshadow :raspp:

OMG! Shades of my first experiences in the early '70's... and my GF at the time (later my wife) thought it looked great... I did, too!


Hmmm, I'm a gay CD with blue eye shadow..... Spooky! lol

Beth, I still like it... it's retro! And didn't we have the best music ever ?

[Lorileah]

Can we get some FACTS please? How many of you have gay friends and how do you KNOW they are gay? well they have same sex partners and I assume they have sex with the partner (although I never really asked) OR they told me they are gay OR they asked me to have sex with them (and yes we are still friends even though I said No)
Did you "suspect" them for any reason before they told you. I have pretty good Gaydar. I usually know
I'm sure if you are a CDer and not a GG, that you have checked for nail polish, shaving/removal of hair other than face, walk or talk "wrong", "wrong" mannerisms etc. How many gay men do any of that? well if I told you that would out me as having had sexual relations with a man...right? Truthfully, about the same as the straight community. Shall we say "some". Most (and I assume we are talking males here and not females) are just regular guys. Some fit the stereotype, some are gym rats, some are "metrosexuals". Most are just guys except when they are out at clubs then they fit a profile (i.e. leather, fetish, flaming).

[andrea lace]

Never expect a camp man to be gay and never expect a gay man to be camp. I personally am bi but never have sex with other guys I am too much in love wife for that. But would love to have sex with a guy

[Ressie]

I never thought about it enough so I don't have good gaydar. I've had friends and acquaintances that I suspected. Maybe they dropped hints that I didn't put together, and covered up very well. Some of them are married and have been married more than once.

So it can take years even decades to conclude that someone is at least bisexual. 1) they hang out with another guy that is more obviously gay. 2) you remember something that said long ago that should have revealed their preference, but you just shrugged it off (denial I guess). 3) They have lived with a guy that is openly gay, but you're still not sure...

Of all the men I know, I don't have any suspicions that any are crossdressers. Well, there's one that walks around town in drag every so often but that's a different story.

Oh yes, and then there's gossip. Someone tells you a story about someone we both know. How many of those are true? idk

[Barbara Dugan]

I am gay and CD and while is true that not all the crossdresers are gay, there is a lot of Fem Queens out there but the gay movement is toward the called straight acting behavior

[AllieSF]

Why does the questions and answers so far sound so much like, "Yes, I have done that before, or gone there before, or know a gay person, or a lesbian or a Mtf TS pre or post Op, or the same for a FtM," et al into infinity and beyond, with a bunch of blue smurfs, blue eye shadow and whatever? Before I always tried to respond to these types of questions as everyone else has so far. But, I was questioned once by a good friend (with no descriptor) about why I felt the need to mention that my friend was black, or gay or TS, or whatever. That was a good eye opener to me and a better question than the ones asked here since we in in the end are all human beings that look and act different. It actually does sound much better when I remember to say "My friend in San Francisco and I did ....". I am trying to train myself to use that instead of trying to define in more detail who or what that friend is, since there is no good reasons to do it. It is definitely not easy and is taking me a lot of time to even get to the 50/50 point where I leave out the unneeded descriptor. So, those people who know me, know the types of friends I may have. Enough said.

PS: Wild, I am not trying to derail this thread and topic, but thought that this thread would be a good opportunity to bring up this side topic.

[Angela Campbell]

I never thought much about it. Doesn't matter to me who someone loves.

[patti.jean]

I am pretty well imbedded in the local gay community. I have served on the board of local gay community center and was also their treasurer. So I have a lot of gay friends. I like to think I do a good job of representing the “T” of LGBT.

Patti

[Jacqueline Winona]

I never really counted my gay friends. :) I have at least two gay cousins, and I'm estimating 15 or so gay friends. Some are closer than others. Most were fairly obvious, and many told me. And as many of you know I'm a married, straight guy.

[Wildaboutheels]

I work with over 150 guys so the odds are that at least 2 or 3 are gay? Not one "seems" like they might be gay from any outward appearances or mannerisms or voices, which is why I make the assumption that "most" will appear to be just another ordinary guy. Maybe people are just more guarded at work?

[Eryn]

I have straight friends, gay friends, and friends whose orientation I do not know. I really don't care because I don't intend to have sexual relationships with them.

Casual acquaintances might thing that I am gay because of quirks in my grooming. I really don't care about that either. Let them think what they want.

[JamieG]

My wife and I have a number of gay friends. The first gay person I new personally was my wife's best friend in college, who came out to her afterward. Then a second friend of hers came out. Although both are a little effeminate, I don't think she knew in college, but started to suspect before each came out. I then met the boyfriends of each man. Neither was as effeminate as my wife's friends. One of them was really cool, no different from some of my best friends. Since then I have had a work colleague who I realized was gay when he talked about his partner Ray. My wife worked for someone who is gay. I've joined the LGBT organization at my work, ostensibly as an "ally" and met many more gay, lesbian, and bi people. The fact is gay people are as diverse as any other people. Some are flaming, some are macho, some are introverts, others extroverts, etc. Most of those I've met have been really nice, although a few can be jerks.