Dear Abby, Why Does This Dress Really Turn Me On?

[Taylor Ray]

Dear Abby,

I recently joined a Cross Dressing website which is really cool and supportive. Although I have heard some of the members mention the sexual aspect of their desire to cross dress, I have yet to stumble upon a thread devoted entirely to the topic. Maybe there is one in the archives I just haven't read, or maybe it just isn't a common topic to discuss. I sure would like to hear the opinions of some like-minded CDs.

Sincerely,

My Arrows Are Made of Desire

[docrobbysherry]

We r referred to here as, "fetish CDs, Taylor.

We have to walk on eggs discussing CD sex here in the regular forum. I suggest u visit the "GM's Only" forum for more frank comments!

[DeeArel]

CDing can encompasses some of the stimuli that arouse the male species if not all of them. Therefore, it is a natural response. Unfortunately, it sends one down a rabbit hole and makes if difficult to fully enjoy the experience.

[Wildaboutheels]

It's Evolution 101 and nothing more. Porn, Men's magazines and women's clothing items can and DO, ALL serve the same purpose. Push men's visual button. The same button that will allow him to "fullfill" his destiny. His most basic programming to impregnate as many females as possible. Of course, just because a female is not handy, does not mean he can't practice having "one". Research has shown that O's are good for us with or w/o a partner.

Many/most of the "regulars" here don't like to discuss it/have moved on as they have gotten older.

[Taylor Ray]

We r referred to here as, "fetish CDs, Taylor.

We have to walk on eggs discussing CD sex here in the regular forum. I suggest u visit the "GM's Only" forum for more frank comments!

Really? Are we not allowed to have an open discussion in the MTF thread?

Oh wow, now my interest is really peaked!

Is there really a label for CDs with this type of interest? Is it considered some type of sub-category?

I didn't realize there were such sharp lines of demarcation between us gals. I always thought we were more similar than different.

[Lorileah]

You know darn well what is allowed and not allowed here and if this thread is just to start a fight it won't be allowed very long either. I won't put up with another "us" vs "them" thread. Talk about egg shells, this is already cracked

[sandra-leigh]

Impregnating as many women as possible was never in my "program". The possibility of impregnating even one frightened me until I was in my 40's. Which doesn't mean I wasn't interested in sex. :o But when I rate the relative levels of "compulsion" of sex vs "dressing up" (really, becoming transgender), the compulsion towards sex was not as strong for me as becoming transgender proved to be.

[Christine.Lolita]

My therapist told me that it is normal for cross dressers to feel sexually excited while dressed.

[Beverley Sims]

Yes you have heard right, just search a little and you will find what you seek.

[Christinedreamer]

I agree with Sandra Leigh. Conquest of as many females as necessary was as far from my wants and desires as you can get. I think many guys BRAG about it but few actually are interested or capable. As far as the attraction to dressing, for me it is mostly about the soft and fluid movement for the clothes. (ie the one in my avatar) I also love the 40-50s Hollywood movies with dancing as the women were so elegant, demure, uber feminine and the clothes simply flowed around them.

Yes, as I grew up there WAS a bit of a sexual component and with my wife, it was incredible.

[reb.femme]

Many/most of the "regulars" here don't like to discuss it/have moved on as they have gotten older.

The day I stop thinking about it, is the day they can nail the lid on my box

Rebecca

[Taylor Ray]

You know darn well what is allowed and not allowed here and if this thread is just to start a fight it won't be allowed very long either. I won't put up with another "us" vs "them" thread. Talk about egg shells, this is already cracked

If you read the initial post you can tell this thread was started with a very serious and sincere inquiry. Not sure what the talk about starting fights and us versus them is about. Obviously the topic has some history to it and hits a nerve for some.

Which yes, I find to be interesting. Not to fan the flames of a debate, but because topics that touch nerves can be very educational and informative.


I suggest u visit the "GM's Only" forum for more frank comments!

Can anyone tell me what the "GM Only" forum is about?

[EllieOPKS]

Taylor
Go to the GM forum and read the description. Re-post your question there for a little more open discussion.
Ellie

[Taylor Ray]

Taylor
Go to the GM forum and read the description. Re-post your question there for a little more open discussion.
Ellie

Still can't find a description of the forum anywhere on this site. It just says "Genetic Males"

[sandra-leigh]

Conquest of as many females as necessary was as far from my wants and desires as you can get. I think many guys BRAG about it but few actually are interested or capable.

I know some people in the local kink community, especially organizers of some of the groups. I have been quietly invited to join some of the groups -- poly, swingers, subs -- each time by someone who knew that I am in a relationship and knew that the normal rules are that couples must both join; they thought enough of me that they would have waived those rules. But each time, I turned down the opportunity. Because although sex is certainly not without its rewards, the pull of love and intimacy is much much stronger for me.

[Taylor Ray]

I'm not sure the sexual component has to be manifested as an extension of some sort of "male inclination". Nor does it have to manifest as sex per se. I mean, couldn't dressing be an expression of a sexual impulse that is transformed into a different behavior?

Not sure I follow the argument that it is some how a base "male impulse" of some sort. I feel that dressing can be very sublimated and artistic.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Taylor ;

There are plenty of threads that discuss what you are interested in. The moderators do a great job of keeping this board on the PG aspect of Gender Identity, it's what gives this site credibility with wives,girlfriends,spouses and SO's . If you think about it, that discretion on the part of the moderators is what keeps our better halves reading and finding hope in what some see as a difficult situation.

[Taylor Ray]

Thanks Kelly!

Can you direct me to the appropriate thread? Is it the GM thread? And what is the description of that thread?

I totally respect the mods keeping the site functioning; just need more info.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Is there really a label for CDs with this type of interest? Is it considered some type of sub-category?


There is, "Transvestic Fetishists", or TVFs.

[Taylor Ray]

Actually, Vickie, that is a psychiatric diagnosis, which has nothing to do with the question I was asking. I was wondering if there was a label or category amongst fellow cross dressers, like in the context of this site.

[Julie York]

Taylor, from what I have gathered over the years reading posts here there is a bit of a sliding scale of motivations for dressing. The motivations and categories are rather confusing even for people taking part because they can change according to mood. But I think what you are looking for is the term "fetishistic" which is for example, when someone is turned on by dressing and that is the actual reason for doing it. It is 'forbidden' and hugely exciting. However, I think this is a basic starting point for most people's experiences even though they may then develop a different relationship to dressing which is more to do with a feeling of emotional calm and balance and less to do with the initial excitement. They actually feel comfortable dressed in a particular way, which is often more realistic and natural than the fetish side.
The fetishistic side of things is the desire to dress in 'classic' female sexually exciting (to the male) clothing. Stockings, nurses outfit, French maid etc.

[Taylor Ray]

Thanks for your very thoughtful and insightful reply, Julie. My initial experiences of cross dressing occurred when I was around 12 and there was a huge sexual component. As I get older I find that I enjoy being dressed full time when I am at home. Yes, it is very comforting and calming and I love the way I feel when dressed.

I wonder if the sexual component is still present but in a more sublimated form. Technically speaking, there could still be a fetishistic component which is the foundation of my dressing, but it doesn't manifest in an obvious fetishistic way (like dressing for the purpose of sexual gratification).

[Wildaboutheels]

Pavlov's dogs and Pavlov's whistle.

MOST CDers and their clothing.

The obvious conclusion is inescapable for those that [perhaps after X number of years] are just fine with JUST "the whistle".

[Tamara Croft]

Go to the GM forum and read the descriptionCome on... GM...


Still can't find a description of the forum anywhere on this site. It just says "Genetic Males"Get it now??

And actually it doesn't just say genetic males... it says: -

GM Forum (Genetic Males - Invitation Only)

I take it you are a genetic male?? or are you like me.. a dolpin :D

It's also in the rules how to join, there are links on the GM forum that says 'read this announcement' etc... it's not rocket science ;)

[Taylor Ray]

Come on... GM...

Get it now??

And actually it doesn't just say genetic males... it says: -

GM Forum (Genetic Males - Invitation Only)

Thanks for reiterating the obvious!

No, I was wondering how a thread called "Genetic Males" could possibly be related to my original question.

It must be because talking about sexuality and cross dressing is only permitted amongst genetic males, which, as a new member, I was not aware of.


Pavlov's dogs and Pavlov's whistle.

MOST CDers and their clothing.

Not the most sophisticated or complex view on sexuality. In my view human beings are able to experience sexual energy in a more holistic way. There are entire schools of practical philosophy dedicated to utilizing and transforming sexual energy.

Speaking of sexuality in terms of Pavlov reduces the instinct to its most base and primitive manifestation.

[CassandraSmith]

I think the real question I'm interested in is whether GF's feel exited when they dress? I know that my mom definitely enjoyed making her fashion statement. She loved high heels and since they aren't inherently the most comfortable thing, I'm assuming that there was some sort of thrill in having them on right?

Often for me, I get exited by the process of creating an attractive ensemble and applying makeup is finally getting to be kind of fun as well (just get Voque and start trying to copy someone's eyes or coloring is now huge fun!).

However, since Kathy Lee talked about mature CDing and also because a friend who is a therapist actually made a disparaging remark about playing in my undies, I've realized that I want to split off the sexual component somewhat from dressing so that it's not always tied to the big O like when I was a teenager. Quality presentation has become more intrinsically rewarding as I've gotten older as well as a an age appropriate presentation that's both attractive yet subtle.

I'm still inclined to think that clothing is about power for me as it was for my mom I think and I feel powerful and complete when I'm dressed fully as a woman. Sometimes that power turns sexual; sometimes not.

[Lorileah]

No, I was wondering how a thread called "Genetic Males" could possibly be related to my original question.



listen carefully. The main areas of the forum are open to non-members so they can read everything that you post. In order to keep those sections on a level that people who are maybe younger, SOs and the more conservative people can read, sex is OUT. Even the circumferential idioms. However the GM is by invite only to members and has a more relaxed set of rule. Rules that you can circumferentially talk about sex. So things that lean heavily on sexual subject matter
will fit there better without upsetting visitors who may have an objective

[DonnaA]

Impregnating as many women as possible was never in my "program". The possibility of impregnating even one frightened me until I was in my 40's. Which doesn't mean I wasn't interested in sex. :o But when I rate the relative levels of "compulsion" of sex vs "dressing up" (really, becoming transgender), the compulsion towards sex was not as strong for me as becoming transgender proved to be.

I agree 100%.

All males are not "type A males".

[Taylor Ray]

listen carefully. The main areas of the forum are open to non-members so they can read everything that you post. In order to keep those sections on a level that people who are maybe younger, SOs and the more conservative people can read, sex is OUT. Even the circumferential idioms. However the GM is by invite only to members and has a more relaxed set of rule. Rules that you can circumferentially talk about sex. So things that lean heavily on sexual subject matter
will fit there better without upsetting visitors who may have an objective

Thanks for spending the time to explain the guidelines in more detail, Lorileah. I fully understand and respect the fact that the rules are in place for specific reasons, and it makes sense to have non-member areas available to a wider audience.

I guess I will seek elsewhere for information related to my question. Somewhere closer to the circumference perhaps.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Taylor, When you get older that won't a problem anymore.

[klaudiaax]

:o !!!!!

[Taylor Ray]

Hi Taylor, When you get older that won't a problem anymore.

Not sure I see what the "problem" is. Or if I would ever want it to go away with old age.

[Tamara Croft]

No, I was wondering how a thread called "Genetic Males" could possibly be related to my original question.Nobody actually said GM thread, they said GM forum... you just read it wrong ;)

[Taylor Ray]

Nobody actually said GM thread, they said GM forum... you just read it wrong ;)

Still not getting my meaning, Tamara? No worries, Lorileah cleared up the confusion.

[Kelly DeWinter]

If they ever come up with the Olympic sport or "Moderator Baiting" Taylor is in contention for Gold Medal.

[Tamara Croft]

Still not getting my meaning, Tamara? No worries, Lorileah cleared up the confusion.OMG :hd: nevermind :rolleyes:

[Taylor Ray]

I guess I need to explain my meaning to those who might have missed it.

My original inquiry regarding the sexual aspect to cross dressing was met with several replies kindly informing me that the MALE TO FEMALE FORUM was not the "appropriate place" for my inquiry. Being a new member to the site, I was curious as to why the MALE TO FEMALE FORUM was not an "appropriate place" for my question. It has been stated many times in both the literature and on this site that many cross dressers can trace the origin of their behavior to a period of time in which there was a sexual component to their dressing.

To my surprise, it seemed that I had stumbled upon a topic that had "a lot of history" on this site. I was then directed to re-post my inquiry in the GM Forum. Knowing that the GM stood for "Genetic Males", I was again curious as to why a new member of the site that had an authentic question regarding the quite often noted sexual aspect of cross dressing was being referred to a forum entitled "Genetic Males". After all, if the literature and testimonials show that many cross dressers often begin their journeys with a sexual aspect to their dressing, wouldn't it seem reasonable to ask a question in the MALE TO FEMALE FORUM"?

At this point Lorileah replied with a very informative post detailing how the site regulates sex-related posts on the basis of non members versus members, which I found explained the situation to a new member completely.

It was never about "where" the GM Forum was located, or whether it was a "forum" or a "thread", or how to sign up. It was about why my inquiry was being met with the type of responses it was being met with.

[Tamara Croft]

Ah but, who says you can't talk about it in here? There is NO rule to say you can't discuss how CD'ing is a sexual aspect of your CD'ing, you just can't discuss it explicitly, like, getting into the fine details about 'what you do'.. But maybe they do in the GM forum, IDK.. And I didn't get Lori's pick a fight post either...

But you said you were looking for a gm THREAD and couldn't find it... anyway, nevermind... you CAN discuss it in this section, just not explicitly... ok :)

[Taylor Ray]

Really? That's cool! I thought Lorileah said that even speaking about the topic in a circumferential way was forbidden.

Thanks for clearing it up, Tamara!


If they ever come up with the Olympic sport or "Moderator Baiting" Taylor is in contention for Gold Medal.

I swear its not on purpose, Kelly! Just trying to find my way around

[Wildaboutheels]

It seems quite likely [doesn't it?] that the shame and guilt that so many at this site have felt/still feel comes from the O part of dressing? Many of the Forum dinos now do "it" a lot less or have "moved on" or progressed and now don't do "it" at all.

It makes perfect sense to me that those members no longer want to think or talk about it.

There ARE plenty of threads where it IS discussed but such threads tend to invite obfuscation on a large scale.

[Kelly DeWinter]

:eek: "Dinos" ?!?!?!? LOL Thats too funny. Yes there are crossdressing fetish(ists) who dress for the purpose of "O" while dressed. Looking at the threads posted over the years makes it clear that the majority dress primarily to identify with their feminine side. I really think it's unfair to say that the older CD/TG woman fades into the night because of a loss of libido with age. As far as the shame or guilt for most, it's not the sexual part of their nature that cause shame or guilt, but more from fear of rejection, because of their nature as it is something that their society rejects as being acceptable.

Kelly

PS. At what age are you considered a dino ?:daydreaming:

[Taylor Ray]

As far as the shame or guilt for most, it's not the sexual part of their nature that cause shame or guilt, but more from fear of rejection, because of their nature as it is something that their society rejects as being acceptable.

Well said, Kelly! It seems the sexual aspect of beginning cross dressers is often looked down upon. So much so, that more developed cross dressers, who no longer are driven by sexual motivations, are often afraid of being judged by society as being in the same category as "those who wear women's clothing to fulfill their own selfish auto-erotic indulgences."

It seems there are some who look down upon so-called "fetish cross dressers"; it seems as well that "fetish" cross dressers get upset about being viewed in a derogatory way.

[Tracii G]

Use the search function here. It's been discussed many times maybe you can find the answers you need.
If you are into the sex part of it there are plenty of other sites that delve into the porny side of CDing.
This forum is a clean place for all people to learn about trans issues.
Pissing off the mods will get you the ban hammer real quick.

[TheMissus]

I suspect WildaboutHeels is just suggesting that most here started out as sexual CDers and time and repetition has morphed the experience into something else. Am I right?

As a GG I find threads like this amusing as looking at this from the outside it ALL looks like the same dang thing so why the labels? Then I chat to my H (he identifies as a fetish dresser) and I realize that sometimes labels are necessary as he doesn't identify as a woman AT ALL, so discussing gender with him is pointless as he's a man who has CD sexual fantasies and acts them out. Does this make him TG? If it does, he's TG Light. Here I think most are TG Heavy so fetish chat won't move much further than "I used to dress for sex but now I dress because it's who I am inside.' Funny how sexuality is dismissed as being nothing more than a passing whim one can overcome and not the point to human existence.

Anyway, I have no clue what your original point was, but you're not the only sexual CD here (if that's what you are). Some of us here married one and are learning to be okay with that. After all, like it or not, sex IS human existence. It is the driving force for just about everything we do.

In my opinion, it deserves more respect.

[Taylor Ray]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply! Yes I have learned a lot about TG issues just by participating in this thread and reading all the various replies and reactions. Even when the replies had nothing to do with the original "topic", they were still very revealing about different attitudes and perceptions. I think forums like this can be very educational, even if in indirect ways.

No I don't identify as a "sexual CD". But yes, sex is a big part of life. Maybe it does deserve more respect like you suggest.

[Lorileah]

I suspect WildaboutHeels is just suggesting that most here started out as sexual CDers and time and repetition has morphed the experience into something else. Am I right?


I agree that when most start there is a sexual component...but then again everything one does before let's say 50 has a sexual component. You are interested in someone when you are young not because they will make millions of dollars but because you want to have sex with them. Girls dress for sex early on. Boys workout for sex to get girls early on. You go on a date hoping for sex. Guys think about sex while watching TV (even sports...you think the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders are there to lead cheers?),

So I find this argument amusing. Yeah...many had a sexual component to it early on. Really is this an epiphany? Guys masturbate while eating Cheetos. So what?

When it becomes a "Need" for sex that is when it should be an issue. If you cannot have sex without heels or stockings or whatever. That is a "sexual fetish". To me this whole discussion on this thread is moot. Yeah..sex is and can be part of the dressing scene. So could be cherries and whipped cream.

[Zylia]

So let's call it 'cherries and whipped cream cross-dressing' instead of 'fetishistic cross-dressing'. That sounds much better.

[Lorileah]

Point is Zylia that all the smoke and mirrors that some here use to say that crossdressing is based on sex, is silly. So what if every TG on the boards once had a sexual incident while dressed? There are few here who still have to dress to have a sexual encounter (alone or otherwise) When people post that it or was sexual to start with...so what? It is whatever it is now and the vast majority are not doing it (on this forum) for sexual reasons.

[Zylia]

So what indeed. I don't judge or care. People should stop making a big deal out of it. To quote TheMissus: "Sexuality" is the driving force for just about everything we do. It's not icky, it's what we are.

[GaleWarning]

This is an amusing thread! How could I have missed it?

What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, according to the bard.

You want lessons on writing about sex using heavy innuendo?
Try Shakespeare's plays.
Or the Song of Songs.

As for me, I will stop being interested in women and sex the day AFTER I die.

Oh, and how I wish that dress would make my bum look big!

[ReineD]

I'm in total agreement. Why do the CDers who dress for sex feel as if they are being judged negatively? It is what it is, and as Lori points out, just about everyone starts off that way.

Why does the term "fetish" (the non-talisman meaning) or 'fetishistic crossdressing' get people in a dander? I think it is because many of the members here also dress for other reasons than self-gratification, even if they occasionally still indulge in auto-eroticism. They enjoy being feminine. They enjoy the clothes. They enjoy being perceived as feminine. Some may even have developed a feminine identity.

Barring the transsexuals (which would be a different thread), do the CDers who started out sexually and who hate the term 'fetish' now prefer to believe that they were born with a propensity for femininity? Or is it because 'fetish' has been pathologised for many years, even if now this has changed? Or is it for deeper reasons - maybe there is a collective distaste rooted in our reptilian brains for any type of sex that is not designed for the survival of our species, which makes the idea of someone being solely aroused by the self, by an object, or by a situation seem as if he or she shouldn't be?

At any rate, fetish is not a dirty word in my book. It only becomes problematic when in very rare cases, it goes overboard and has a negative impact on a person's concentration, work, relationships, and/or socialization.

[DanielleT]

Because wearing a dress is the essence of womanhood. Along with wearing panties, pantyhose and heels, it is how we define ourselves as women.

[GaleWarning]

And there I was, thinking it was all in the mind.
No, I'm not blonde.