PRACTICALLY speaking

[Frédérique]

Last night I heard that famous English transvestite comedian, who shall remain nameless (you’re welcome), once again say that women can wear anything they want, and “So do I!”

I think women get to wear anything they want because their clothing choices are based on male prototypes (or ACTUAL male clothing) and they are, it follows, invariably practical. It just makes sense that, according to whatever circumstances come along, a woman may wish to cover her legs, protect her skin (and, it follows, her body), keep warm, stay cool, run up that hill, climb that tree, be efficiently mobile and maybe even get to do what she really WANTS to do. It’s not easy in female clothing, but male clothing is designed with practicality in mind...

Male clothing is concerned with dealing efficiently with everyday activities. That happens to be the very definition of "practical." The opposite of practical is speculative, or risky. If a male wears female clothing, he leaves his world of practicality behind and becomes a risky individual. Oh, there ARE practical female garments, such as a practical dress, but when a man puts that same dress on all practicality is suspended for the foreseeable future, and usefulness is at an end. In my humble opinion, male clothing stresses the importance of utility over beauty or other, more speculative considerations...

Since convenience, or utilitarianism, is the accepted norm these days, it only makes sense that women can wear what they want. Who would argue the practicality of pants over a dress or a skirt, especially when the legs NEED to be protected, for one reason or another? I mean, why are females obliged to show their legs in the first place? Why not deal with everyday activities in a more efficient (and practical) manner? Seems logical to me. Also, women are less restricted than they used to be, and their choice of clothing reflects this, n’est ce pas?

Interestingly, I can speak for many males (by birth) on this site and state, quite emphatically, that it is a revelation to become speculative, or risky, after a life spent in the dungeon of utility. To wear impractical clothes, and subsequently do impractical things, makes me HIGH! This may be a case of the haves and have nots, where one sex (or gender, if you prefer) can wear certain things and the other side can’t. If they didn’t TELL me it was wrong, or at least imply it (24/7), I would probably have never come up with the idea of shaking off the cloak of practical ideology, simply by accepting a certain amount of clothed risk into my life. Impracticality suddenly seemed very attractive to me, so I followed that urge...

There may be an overriding need to get serious about things these days, so any male wearing female clothing is treated with scorn, derision, or worse. The female wearing male clothes may be, subject to interpretation, crossdressing, but wearing practical clothing is never challenged. Perhaps the latter CANNOT be challenged, due to the current state of affairs here in the early 21st century. We are at war, both with outsiders and ourselves, and there is no time for frivolity. This may explain why I can’t walk out my front door, in my frock of choice, and wave to the neighbors as I greet the new day. As soon as they see me, they will think something is amiss, since I obviously have no use for practicality, first cousin of conformity...

In short, I understand why women can wear male clothing and get away with it, while we, my MtF crossdresser friends, are not so lucky. I have attached a photo of Ruth Elder, aviation pioneer from 1927, getting ready to cross the Atlantic in her plane, American Girl. Would you say she is crossdressing, or is she merely dressed for the occasion, i.e. wearing something practical?

PS - A male necktie is decidedly impractical. Just ask a lathe operator... :doh:

[Kate Simmons]

If you notice Ruthie is wearing a feminine scarf on her head in the pic and there is no doubt she is a woman. I think the white shirt and tie is just a "statement" to show that she is just as good as a man in her profession. Slick move if I do say so myself. :battingeyelashes::)

[UNDERDRESSER]

I've taken to wearing skirts. I find they are more COMFORTABLE. Any reason I shouldn't?

[AmyGaleRT]

If I were out doing manual labor, traditional "male" clothing might indeed be more practical. But I sit in an office all day, either at my desk typing code into a computer, or in one or another conference room for meetings. I could do that as easily in a skirt or dress as I could in male attire.

And, if we want to talk "practicality," it might even make it easier for me to get ready in the morning. No more having to track down matching, or at least complementary, shirt and pants. Just grab dress from hanger, pull over head, done! (Admittedly, there's a lot more to a "proper" female look that takes more time to get right. I'm trying to keep the comparison as apples-to-apples here.)

Also, I find my pants tend to wear out most quickly in the knees and the crotch. Obviously, I'm not going to have that problem with a skirt or dress! :)

- Amy

[Tara D. Rose]

practical?

PS - A male necktie is decidedly impractical. Just ask a lathe operator... :doh: [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Yes Freddy, I know about the neck tie operator. I got mine stuck in the chuck jaws one time and that is why my face looks like it does, yes that is the reason...lol

[Aneline]

What is impractical about a skirt? I am too hot down there a lot of the time, I'd love it if I could wear skirts. I think they'd be way more comfortable. Short skirts. Not floor sweepers. and open toe sandals...

[Ineke Vashon]

In those days aeroplanes were, to say the least, drafty. A skirt would have blown up in an instant and would have scandalized the mores of the day. It took courage to wear pants and even to fly for a woman then. Good on her.

Ineke.

[LilSissyStevie]

When I worked in the machine trades, you didn't wear rings or watches either nor did you ever leave your shirt tail hanging out. One of the reasons I got out of that racket was looking around the shop one day and realizing that no one over thirty five had 10 whole fingers.

[Emme]

One can get male clothes dirty. When I go in my shop to play with my tools, I leave the dresses and skirts inside. I don't want my girl stuff to get sweaty and burned or cut and stained. I have a special bra and forms for working in the shop. My female clothing is relaxing and wonderful.

I have some old capri pants and some old "T"s that may make it to the work shop.....but generally, my girl stuff stays clean.

[Lorileah]

Male clothing is concerned with dealing efficiently with everyday activities.

Councillor I have to object (surprise!). How is a suit and tie efficient? Functionality of a tie? (in my field they have two uses, one to have something a cat can climb and two to hold the tail of a bovine up while you palpate...don't know why a banker would have a practical use)

While I agree certain types of clothing may be practical for specific jobs...I think the argument is weak. Amy pointed that out. A desk jockey could be practical in a skirt. Why isn't a frilly blouse practical for a salesman? Bras for men carrying extra breastage.? The famous pantyhose in winter?

[UNDERDRESSER]

One can get male clothes dirty. When I go in my shop to play with my tools, I leave the dresses and skirts inside. I don't want my girl stuff to get sweaty and burned or cut and stained. I have a special bra and forms for working in the shop. My female clothing is relaxing and wonderful.

I have some old capri pants and some old "T"s that may make it to the work shop.....but generally, my girl stuff stays clean.Good for you, I always get stains, I'm a clumsy git.

[Beverley Sims]

Hi Frédérique,
Judging from the replies you are skating on thin ice, most here have an interest in wearing female garb.
There are some practicalities to wearing male attire but the reasons elude me for now. :)

[TheMissus]

I think an actual world war would be a leveller for GG attire versus CDing versus practical menswear. Should our safe, privileged little bubble finally burst I suspect most of the conversations and issues addressed here would disappear. Clothing will be a non issue while people fight for actual survival. Really, the chit chat here is not something I'd expect you'd have heard much at Auschwitz.

Does CDing even exist in a non privileged world? Or does everyone just get over it and wear whatever keeps them warm at night?

[Zylia]

I haven't been here for too long, but it's still the first time I've seen an example of Godwin's law on this forum. I'm not sure if congratulations are in order TheMissus :D

All arguments about practicality aside, (MTF) cross-dressers wear women's clothes because they're women's clothes, not because they want to wear something less practical every now and then. I actually don't see that many women in men's clothes in every day life at all, unless you're claiming that pants are male only, which is simply false nowadays.

[TheMissus]

Ha, Zylia, someone had to do it. Pity it wasn't actually a lengthy discussion. Seems I might have been premature and should have saved it for the six page brawls that often occur :)

[Mollyanne]

Hi Freddy, I am in awe over the eloquence of your definition of "practicality and impracticality" with regard to comparing certain articles of male clothing verses female clothing in any given setting or situation. Personally, I think that it is up to any individual what he or she wants to wear in any given situation and the tolerance of ridicule that one can withstand.

Molly

[Krististeph]

A male necktie is decidedly impractical. Just ask a lathe operator... I love it! Reminds me of some safety warning signs in I saw in field inspections:

[NicoleScott]

A male peacock (redundant, I know) has very impractical plumage, unless you include attracting a mate. Then it works pretty well.

Practical? Wouldn't it be easier to pull up the skirt to pee than to unzip?

[ReineD]

The female wearing male clothes ....



In short, I understand why women can wear male clothing and get away with it, while we, my MtF crossdresser friends, are not so lucky.


I'll bite, even though this argument has been explored more times than I care to remember.

Not a lot of women dress like the woman in your picture, Freddy - you used the exception as your example. I dare say that a woman wearing a shirt tailored for a man's body plus a tie and actual men's pants would gather just as many stares as a man wearing clothes tailored for a woman's body.

Had you used a picture of an average woman wearing an average female pantsuit or just average women's pants and a top, it would have been apparent that she was wearing women's clothes, cut and tailored for a woman's body, and bought in a woman's store.

Edit - Also, if the universe had conspired to assign pants to women (perhaps as a sort of chastity belt), and skirts to men (for greater freedom of movement), crossdressers would want to wear the practical pants instead. :)

[NicoleScott]

if the universe had conspired to assign pants to women (perhaps as a sort of chastity belt), and skirts to men (for greater freedom of movement), crossdressers would want to wear the practical pants instead.

Say it ain't so! [fingers in ears] la la la la la la la la la la la la

[Stephanie47]

PRACTICALLY speaking, it bores the life out of me when I go to the postings of pictures on the site and see a man emulating a woman by wearing pants! I will never ever wear a pair of womanly jeans. What's the point? I get absolutely no sense of femininity unless I am dressed as a traditional woman. Now, as a child reared in the 1950's and 1960's women did NOT wear pants. Sure, there were women who wore male clothing for practicality or functionality, e.g. women working on horseback. However, women primarily worked in the home at domestic chores or in office and retail.

Women were not pictured in male dominated professions, if they were in them at all. It was a time of families with one breadwinner; the husband.

I do not know why I am a cross dresser. I know my first attraction to woman's clothing was full slips. I suppose a young male now may have been enticed by his sister's girl cut jeans with pretty stitching, but, that did not exist back in my youth. Girls played in dresses. There is a picture hanging in our dining room of my wife and her brother standing at the back door of the house they grew up in. He is attired in bib overalls. She is attired in a cute dress with a full skirt.

Sure, now women have emulated the attire of men. Our functional clothing has been co opted. Yes, a stunning woman attired in heels or boots with jeans and a flannel shirt will definitely turn my head.

A guy emulating a woman by wearing clothing co opted by women? Boring as hell to me. I'll stay with the June Cleaver look of dress, heels and properly undergarments, including my first love of a full slip.

Yep, I'm stuck back in the 1950's and 1960's, a time when the woman stayed home and the guy went to work.

[Karren H]

New rule..... Only a certain percentage of the population should be allowed to wear impractical clothing at any one time.... else no one would be able to get anything done.... the economy would falter and we would all set around broke, unemployed in our pretty dresses! lol. Now it would be nice if we all got a turn to wear impractical clothing.... instead of women hogging them all!

Maybe we could rename crossdressing to less practical dressing...... and loose the stigma in the process?

[Wildaboutheels]

Lost in the shuffle as always. Women have so many choices in clothing to offer them a better chance to be "more" ATTRACTIVE to "more" men. It's a woman's CHOICE as to how much effort she will expend on being attractive. [to men] Generally speaking, IF a woman already has a mate or is not looking for one, she will spend far less time, money and effort on her appearance. [A woman's appearance will almost always be at the TOP of most men's desired qualities in a mate. This is old news.] Practicality has ZERO to do with some/much of the stuff FEmales wear. Anything PRACTICAL about makeup? It has ONE purpose. All that stuff, they will put on their faces at all that expense demanding all that time to apply...

If men could catch more women or improve their odds with women by wearing "makeup" of any kind, OR clothing of any kind, they would be all over it or in it. It makes little difference to most women how men "present" themselves. This is easily verified by spending a little time at Dating site Forums. Manufacturers are not going to offer more choices to men UNTIL men need/want/desire more choices. Any woman with even half a brain, will realize that IF she has a decent body and decent legs, a miniskirt and heels will give her a lot more "power" than jeans and a Tshirt or a granny dress and flats.

As long as our [men's] vision "controls" us, women will have far more choices in how they choose to "present" themselves. I don't see it changing any time soon.

One last thing. Hundreds here have reported going out partially dressed for X # of years and NEVER had a problem with anyone, myself included for 11 years, to 8 or 10 different stores. Men CAN and DO wear anything they want.

The SOLUTION is a simple one. Wear what you want, DON'T keep your head on a constant swivel and/or your tail between your legs and TREAT other people "right".

[Vickie_CDTV]

Does CDing even exist in a non privileged world? Or does everyone just get over it and wear whatever keeps them warm at night?

Yes, it does. Transvestism (and other forms of transgendered behavior) have existed in every society, and they still do, even in relatively impoverished societies (like India, Thailand, etc.), and even in societies where men and women don't dress much differently (like parts of the south pacific.)

[Frédérique]

If you notice Ruthie is wearing a feminine scarf on her head in the pic and there is no doubt she is a woman.

I was going to mention that – there’s no question that Ms. Elder is a woman, as evidenced by her hair ribbon. The latter briefly became a fashion fad. She attempted the 1927 trans-Atlantic flight purely for fame and glory, trying to become the first woman to accomplish the feat. She knew how to make an impression, showing up dressed in a white shirt, checkered sweater and stockings, tan golf knickers, and the aforementioned ribbon in her dark bobbed hair. Her airplane was painted bright orange. She almost made it, being forced to ditch in the ocean some 300 miles short of her goal, but she lived to tell the tale. Elder became famous and the adventure catapulted her to Hollywood stardom. Also, as soon as she got back, she ditched her husband…

PS – Amelia Earhart, from Kansas, became the first woman to cross the Atlantic in 1928. She also seemed to prefer practical male clothing, but she dispensed with the hair ribbon…


What is impractical about a skirt?

Nothing, unless you happen to be a man wearing one (these days). Aren’t short skirts based on male battle garments? The kilt, for instance, was exactly that, and still seems to be so, if you ask any man topped up with machismo, but eventually a day dawned when the kilt became impractical on the battlefield. I love skirts. I worship their comfort, movement, and wrongness, for me wearing one, I mean, since they are definitely impractical for males by birth, as decided by the numerous unadventurous members of society…

Since short, or relatively short skirts, show off the legs, and sometimes move this way and that, isn’t it PRACTICAL for a woman to wear one, if she wants to attract males?


Judging from the replies you are skating on thin ice, most here have an interest in wearing female garb.

I’m skating on thin ice, PERIOD!!! :doh:

The point of this “essay” is to state that practical garments are generally accepted, so women get less “stick” about what some may define as crossdressing. This is an echoing howl of protest on this site, i.e. how come women can wear anything they want (?), so I am attempting to come at the problem from the angle of practicality vs. impracticality. If you don’t wish to absorb the entire OP, or argument, feel free to wait for the next topic to come up over yonder hill…


Anything PRACTICAL about makeup?

Sure, if you’re trying to attract someone (see above), by covering up your imperfections, or highlighting your "charms." I submit that ANY article of clothing, or any accessory (like makeup) is practical if a desired outcome is your goal, even if that goal is self-satisfaction. Making yourself look BETTER, in your eyes, or in the eyes of others, is an ancient practice, but how would you explain MtF crossdressing that is not intended to attract males? Aren’t we engaged in impracticality of epic proportions, a selfish adventure not too unlike Ruth Elder’s flight of fancy? Swimming against the tide, or simply trying to be different, is inherently impractical, but you WILL be remembered for trying it…

[Lorileah]

Wild you are going to get so blasted for what you said... :facepalm:
Women have so many choices in clothing to offer them a better chance to be "more" ATTRACTIVE to "more" men. Is that why? And here I thought it was because they found it hard to climb poles in mini skirts. You do realize that men have the same choices but because they have been "told" not to they don't wear them?
Generally speaking, IF a woman already has a mate or is not looking for one, she will spend far less time, money and effort on her appearance I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole.
Practicality has ZERO to do with some/much of the stuff FEmales wear. Anything PRACTICAL about makeup? hides blemishes, softens skin, makes the wearer feel better about themselves..


If men could catch more women or improve their odds with women by wearing "makeup" of any kind, OR clothing of any kind, they would be all over it or in it. Someone once said "those that don't learn from history..." so here's a little history lesson. 400 years ago men wore makeup, hose, pumps, wigs, lace, silk, perfume. They quit because...you can't climb poles in garters.
It makes little difference to most women how men "present" themselves. :facepalm: again...really? You believe that really? GGs? will you date a slob over a guy who is neat and presentable? OMG, I can't even believe you said that.
Manufacturers are not going to offer more choices to men UNTIL men need/want/desire more choices. finally a rational statement.
Any woman with even half a brain, will realize that IF she has a decent body and decent legs, a miniskirt and heels will give her a lot more "power" than jeans and a Tshirt or a granny dress and flats. and then down the rabbit hole again.



One last thing. Hundreds here have reported going out partially dressed for X # of years and NEVER had a problem with anyone, myself included for 11 years, to 8 or 10 different stores. Men CAN and DO wear anything they want.

The SOLUTION is a simple one. Wear what you want, DON'T keep your head on a constant swivel and/or your tail between your legs and TREAT other people "right".

so the whole rest of the post was...sarcasm?

Hey Freddy, I finally sliced and diced someone else in your thread! :)

[Tamara Croft]

Right, I'll start with you missy :slap:


Now, as a child reared in the 1950's and 1960's women did NOT wear pants.So was my mother and I have plenty of pictures of her AND my grandmother in pants (trousers), it's 2013, get over it already!


Women were not pictured in male dominated professions, if they were in them at all.Oh dear, you really don't know your history at all do you, maybe try reading some books??


Yep, I'm stuck back in the 1950's and 1960's, a time when the woman stayed home and the guy went to work.Oh my days.. glad I'm not your wife, you'd like us chained to the kitchen sink as well in heels and huge frilly skirts too??


Right next one... honestly :rolleyes:


Women have so many choices in clothing to offer them a better chance to be "more" ATTRACTIVE to "more" men.Of course it isn't, it's because whoever designs our clothing, like women a lot more ;) Obviously we're the domineering sex :raspp:


It's a woman's CHOICE as to how much effort she will expend on being attractive. [to men] Generally speaking, IF a woman already has a mate or is not looking for one, she will spend far less time, money and effort on her appearance.WOW! that excludes me then, I don't go out the door without my makeup on, or looking nice unless I'm just nipping to one of my kids houses.. You'll find most women going out at the weekends without their partners etc WILL make an effort to look good. I don't think I've ever seen a group of women going out in my town without makeup on or nice clothes...


It makes little difference to most women how men "present" themselves. This is easily verified by spending a little time at Dating site Forums. Manufacturers are not going to offer more choices to men UNTIL men need/want/desire more choices.You must be on the wrong sites then, there is nothing more off putting than a man who doesn't look good... Either you wrote that wrong, or... how can I say this nicely? I can't.. use your imagination :rolleyes:


Any woman with even half a brain, will realize that IF she has a decent body and decent legs, a miniskirt and heels will give her a lot more "power" than jeans and a Tshirt or a granny dress and flats.Really? that's funny because, I was wearing white trousers and a sexy top with FLAT sparkly sandals the other weekend at a nightclub... let's just say, you're wrong... ;)

:^5: Lori

And I think for once, you wrote a good thought provoking thread Freddy ;) even if it was written to ruffle feathers ;) (clearly was lol)

[MysticLady]

Would you say she is crossdressing, or is she merely dressed for the occasion, i.e. wearing something practical?


OK, so what's this thread about? :thinking: Sorry Freddy, I'm short term memory deficient.:heehee:

[Frédérique]

Pretty disappointing, that… :sad:

[Wildaboutheels]

Quoting facts is a sign of a sharp cookie.

Shouldn't it be sharp crayon though?

Would people be insulted if someone called you a sharp crayon?

Or would you prefer sharp cookie?

[daarleane]

But practicality doesn't explain the choice in fabrics or colors, does it? Besides, I seem to remember some time ago reading the results of a medical study that said,basically the heat from wearing pants was damaging to sperm. that did not make any change in men"s fashions. Also, as far men's ties, if you didn't have them how much more boring would the front of a plain white shirt be? you have to do something for those with absolutely no imagination, don't you?

[Veronica27]

Oh dear, you really don't know your history at all do you, maybe try reading some books??

Oh my days.. glad I'm not your wife, you'd like us chained to the kitchen sink as well in heels and huge frilly skirts too??




To those of us who grew up in the 1940's and 1950's, this is not so much "history" as it is memories. We don't have to read it, we experienced it. Most women did not work outside of the home, but were "housewives", especially those who had children. While there were some women in the professions, they were a very small minority. Employment was segregated, with "help wanted male" and "help wanted female" listings in the classified ads. Women wore dresses and skirts far more often than they wore "slacks", and the older the woman. the more likely this was. Both my mother and mother-in-law, who lived into their mid 80's and passed away within the last twenty years, refused to wear pants until the day they died. They considered them to be unlady-like. Throughout my entire school years, the girls were required to wear a dress or skirt, as did the teachers.

When I read the post to which you responded, the message I took from it was that the writer identifies with that era as far as his/her impressions of femininity are concerned, and that is the image that he/she wishes to emulate. There is nothing wrong with that, as we are all encouraged to be ourselves which includes being entitled to our own tastes in our presentation. The writer recognized that today's women no longer dress in that manner or are so restricted in their employment options. He says that it is he who is stuck in that era, not modern women.

Veronica

[5150 Girl]

I have my "gett'n dirty" cloths, and my pretty things, and and in between the two almost never meet. I think though, everyone regardless of gender has 2 sets of cloths.

BTW, I think the photo was photshoped... they put a white woman's head on a black man's body... Look at the hands, and the sholders seem wide and manly to.