One gender??

[TheMissus]

I read a lot of banter here about how masculine women are dressing these days and how many lament the good old days of feminine clothing etc. Clearly, many here highly value the feminine aspect of the opposite gender. I also read a lot here about how the world needs to accept femininity in men more.

Can anyone see the irony in this logic?

If the world looked as many here would have it, there would be zero masculinity. Men and women would all look the same. But is this really a world we would want?

I personally would be sad if men just up and disappeared beneath a cloud of face powder and I believe my libido would disappear with it, but maybe this is the future?? There are fish breeds who are turning female. Makes a girl wonder, that's for sure...

[PaulaQ]

I don't think people here want everyone to be the same. I think mostly folks want to be able to express themselves as they want, and for maybe more to really dress up a bit more. (I think a lot of that desire comes without really trying to live that way every day - doing all the shit to be dressed to the nine's takes a while, even if you are born to it. Try doing that stuff while getting your kids ready for school and then heading to work...) This is the same reason, more or less, that pop-tarts exist too!

Me - I'd be happy if people could present however they needed to present without stigma, and if a few more people put some effort into trying to look at least a little nice. Not super-femme or anything - I mostly don't do that either - but just a modicum of effort, because some folks go out looking just terrible.

[MatildaJ.]

I'd be happy if people could present however they needed to present ...but ...some folks go out looking just terrible.

I try to remember that everyone has different invisible problems. If a person has only enough energy (due to medications or depression or whatever) to get out of the house and buy necessities, and can't manage to look decent while doing so, that doesn't seem like it's hurting me in any way. My two cents.

[PaulaQ]

True Jess, but some people really seem not to care, and my standards for "some effort" are pretty low - clean would be high on the list. Followed by "appropriate for the location where you headed." Doesn't have to be fancy. Doesn't have to be new. Mostly "clean, and basic grooming." I know some people have limited means - I lived in a very poor area. Still, clean is pretty cheap. I guess I'm talking really about some people who's invisible problem is "I put zero effort into my appearance - I don't care how I look."

[noeleena]

Hi,

How feminine would you say my people are, I dought many from my county of origin would have looked as is talked about to day, there was nothing feminine about my fathers Mother from the old county of Prussia it was hard many bloody wars going on food was not like we have now liveing was tough, & clothes unless you were of the Kings household or very well off,

My Mother dressed nicely of the day & her Mother, my Mom was very striking in her looks im 66 my Mom was in her 60s when she passed on 40 years ago,

If this is only about clothes & how one looks look at the 1900 to 1914 many women had it all different styles in the 20'& so on yes very feminine & in nature demeaner yet remember many women were working class many did not have the finess in dress or looks in fact very masculine , i have pics going back through some of those times , some looked very masculine

they were still very much female, do all of us even to day have to look feminine , what if we cant, many men have facial features that are more in line with how females look so do & can look more feminine,

Okay the dresser's here and on many other forums can look very passable , the ? is with out makeup with out many extra's to help them have that look. yes i understand the ? yet what did men do in the Renaissance times okay not all men a few did in dress makeup shoes & so on infact looked rather better than some women , they were still men not women nore pretended to be women , okay some did of cause,

Life to day is for many in the western world very different thinking as well , do all men wont to be like us ( female ) no of cause not why does the people have to accept femininity in men, is that only in dressing or are we looking at the Psychological .

Emotional side here men & women natal female are very different , i know some wont to think other wise, and they belive men & female are the same, ill not debate that all i'll say is now hows the best way to say it, from experance i know first hand from a female point of view that's a detail i found out concerning men when i'v talked with them,

ill stop here i know what i'd like to say just not in words, cant express it quite right, sorry,

...noeleena...

[Kate Simmons]

While that may be the perception and the "wish" by many here, there are still plenty of manly men and womanly women to go around out there. Both are what they are regardless of how they dress. A woman on one of her "worst" days can always outdo me on one of my "best" days en femme. There is only so much one can "fake" because the rest is inherent if you get my drift.:)

[Davena Doll]

No I can't see the logic. Zero masculinity, give me a brake sister. Does a fish girl deliver what a man wants?. I love powder it makes my face not so shiny so. "If the world looked as many here would have it". That is just stupid. not every man is going to be a CD if so Wall Mart would only sell high heels and no camping gear. Who would wont that?.

[Vickie_CDTV]

It would be nice if the world accepted femininity in men more, but it does not have to be a zero sum gain; we can be more accepting of femininity in men without having to eradicate masculinity.

[Kate T]

I guess I'm talking really about some people who's invisible problem is "I put zero effort into my appearance - I don't care how I look."

Who has the invisible problem though Paula? You or the other person.
As a part of this community we live in a glass house. I think we need to be cautious about throwing stones :)

[kimdl93]

I wouldn't put too much stock into that banter. There are some people who equate femininity with clothing, because for a CDing male, clothing, make up etc are the vehicle for their feminization. Their laments about women not wearing dresses and so on should be viewed with a high measure of suspicion.

But to your point, if I were to observe society as a whole, it seems there's too much masculinity. Watch any movie, TV show or sporting event - its all about testosterone. Video games are basically male oriented mayhem.

But oddly enough the work place is becoming more the domain of women. The majority of college graduates are women, the majority of new lawyers are women, the majority of new doctors are women. The majority of hs and college drop outs are male. It seems that men, at least a disturbing number of young males, have put their personal entertainment above their futures. Maybe they need a little more estrogen.

[Beverley Sims]

You need men and women in a mix to make the world go around.
Since the drive for equality there are a lot of testosterone charged women in the world.
That is my humble opinion.
I will remain an estrogen charged male that appreciates the feminine way of life "whatever that is". :)

[devida]

When the Spanish first encountered the transgendered people of the Chumash tribes of Southern California they called them joyas, which means jewels. As you might know many cultures believe there are a number of genders between the polarities of male and female and anyone can see there is a wide spectrum of people from hyper-masculine men to hyper-feminine women. Gender is at least as multi-faceted as sexual orientation and believe me human beings can get sexually excited over the most amazing things. I just love the idea that I am a jewel, and that depending on who you are and where you are coming from you may only see one facet but the more facets you see the more of a jewel I am!

[NicoleScott]

There are plenty of manly men here, and they enjoy being men and accepting all those manly responsibilities and enjoy manly diversions. Some guys just like to dress up occasionally, but are no less men. Men aren't going to feminize into oblivion.
Masculinity and femininity are much more than the clothes.

[sometimes_miss]

<snip>. I also read a lot here about how the world needs to accept femininity in men more.
.
I fail to see exactly what the benefit to the world is, by having more men wear pretty dresses, more elaborate hair styles, and wearing make up and more jewelry. It would make OUR lives more tolerable, but I don't quite know how the world benefits.
Women are simply trying to get 'out of the kitchen', and don't want their lives limited to keeping house and raising children. So to avoid being considered only as a potential sexual partner, thus avoid clothes that give any indication of trying to attract a male, in order to be considered not a woman in the workplace, but rather just a person in the workplace. I understand that. But men don't have that option; we must compete for job position and income in order to be considered an acceptable mate for a woman, so men feel confused because we must maintain OUR sexual social responsibility/role at work, while women abandon hers. Also, women generally downplay appearance as an important attribute of a person, and once involved in actively maintaining a non sexual identity for her job for oh, at least 50 hours a week, and having stress induce overeating, deskwork taking exercise out of the day, and her figure suffers too but of course that's not important, right? So guys are in a lose lose situation. It's not one gender; it's NON gender.

[MatildaJ.]

I just love the idea that I am a jewel, and that depending on who you are and where you are coming from you may only see one facet but the more facets you see the more of a jewel I am!

What a beautiful way of looking at it. Thank you so much for sharing this metaphor!