The way you look at women

[ReineD]

This thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?200083-I-m-starting-to-ogle-women-for-totally-different-reasons-now...


We've had many, many threads like this over the years. Not wanting to paint with a broad brush, but I'd say the feelings expressed here are almost universal among CDers as they begin to accept the CDing within themselves, and begin to develop a desire to present realistically as a beautiful woman.

My question: Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general? For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship? And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?

Also, for those of you who occasionally fantasize about being with men while dressed, did these fantasies begin at the same time as you began looking at women's appearances critically rather than eyeing them as hot babes?

Thanks in advance for all the responses.

[suchacutie]

When we found Tina 8 years ago, my wife wisely suggested that it would be much better if Tina were her platonic girlfriend, and we leave the husband/wife relationship to the male me. Thus, we've separated that "sisterly" kind of girlfriend feeling to Tina. Since I'm one of the bigendered crowd here, separating my two gendered selves emotionally has never been a problem. Works for us!

[Kate Simmons]

Honestly Reine, I look at women as other people who are my contemporaries and equals.Of course genderwise we all have our specialties. If we pay attention we can learn a lot from one another. Appreciating someone for who they are as a person is foremost for myself. The feelings and any potential romance tend to take care of themselves.;):)

[Denise69]

I don't think it has affected my desire for women, sexually. However, what I have found is what I find "sexy", has changed.
I cannot deny that models, pinups and actresses are attractive, but I've changed what I look for. I've started ignoring the wrapper and delving deeper into the person. I respect and desire the intelligence, wit, humor and just a general put togetherness and find that much sexier. I'm not sure if it's dressing related or just that I'm older....

[natalialimapoa]

Well, I am still young, but I can say that this questions are clear to me, since im obssesed with CDing since 6. And I am 100% hetero and I have alredy had 3 girlfriends.

My question: Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general? For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship?

Yes, I look differently to women than a regular male. I have 2 lens: one that pays attention to the make up, clothes, curves, way of walking, talking and acting. And another that check her hotness.

For me, these lens are mixed and, in some way, I am more attracted to girls that have a great fashion style, know how to use make up, and are really feminine (more than me :P).

And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?

For me, my girlfriend is not my "sister". I am a girl, and she is my girlfriend, simple as that. Literally, when I am totally female (in my soul and mind), I see myself as a lesbian, so I am completely sexually atracted to her, and at the sime time, we have a great time doing girl stuff.

Also, for those of you who occasionally fantasize about being with men while dressed, did these fantasies begin at the same time as you began looking at women's appearances critically rather than eyeing them as hot babes?

Im not one of these, since Im completely hetero. Actually, my sexual life increased A LOT since I told my girlfriend. My female side is really lesbian, so I feel much more free in the bed, and she loves it.

[candydawn75]

And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?

Also, for those of you who occasionally fantasize about being with men while dressed, did these fantasies begin at the same time as you began looking at women's appearances critically rather than eyeing them as hot babes?

As for my wife and I, I find her more attractive. We have bonded more because of CD and I think that may be part of it. I feel like I understand her better with the need for makeup, clothes, shoes, and just the whole beauty thing.

I can honestly say that I don't fantasies about men while dressed. I do look at women's appearance in some what a critical way as how the make up, hair, etc and what I would do differently or same but then go to hot or not issue.

[suzanne]

My way of looking at women has definitely evolved, especially lately. Firstly,I don't recall ever looking at some one and imagining what I'd like to do to her sexually, as a typical man might do. At least not much. ; ) In the last few years, since coming to terms with my own CDing, I have often had the thought, "What would I give to have hair (or legs, or boobs, etc) like her!" More recently, I find myself studying what a women is wearing, trying to determine whether something she has on would work on me, or how it might work.

[robindee36]

Reine,

I always look at women with an admiring eye. How they are dressed, their profile, how they move, their hair and especially their makeup. However, they arouse zero sexual desires, only admiration and an object lesson in improving my presentation.

Men, never any attraction either in drab or dressed.

Other Tgirls, well that is another question entirely. Its what I am and who I prefer to be with.

Hugs, Robin

[Miriam-J]

Interesting question, Reine. I expect this to bring a wide range of responses.

I've never objectified women as much as most guys, but I can't be certain of the cause. Perhaps it's due to my transgendered nature, but it could also be due to my respect for the strong women in my life - especially my sisters, mother, grandmothers, and wife. I've always appreciated a fine-looking woman, especially if dressed to emphasize her assets, like most guys and don't mind taking a second or third look. But I quickly shift my attention beyond that to wanting to get to know her as a person if I can, and I have little patience for a woman who has too little to offer in terms of intelligence and compassion.

It's been interesting though as I've become more and more involved in my crossdressing. I'm more attentive to the specifics of what a woman is wearing, how she's made up, and how she carries herself - but from an educational perspective. Rather than replacing my guy instincts though, it gives me more reason to take the time to appreciate both aspects. The extent to which one form of observation prevails depends on my mood, how distracting the woman's assets are, and how much I feel I can learn from her. After all, I can't learn much from an 18 year old beauty queen, or an older beauty in a low cut top and short skirt, so I might as well just enjoy the view.

Miriam

[SophieKitty]

I've been brought up by three women, I've always been able to connect to a female side of me and empathise with women. I've been a male feminist from as long as I can remember. I've always looked at women on an equal plain to me. The only time I've seen women as sex objects is while watching porn. Women in real life have been sexual, and attractive beings, but I've always seen so much more. I've always been what every girl I've dated as their perfect man, due to my upmost respect and connectivity to them.

Now I've realised I'm bi-gender my view on women hasn't changed apart from jealousy over looks, including with a lot of trans girls. That and respect over the work and effort they go through in life. But just because i feel i share a sisterhood doesn't stop me from admiring a woman both genetic & trans/cd both sexually and spirituality.

[julia marie]

There's been no dramatic change in how I view women. I've always had more women friends than male friends. I admit that sometimes I look at those women friends with sex on my mind (and we've crossed the line a couple times). I'm not in any relationship now, so change there isn't a factor. As far as strange women, I love to look at them and admire them. Sometimes that is because I would like to be them (that's a more recent development), and sometimes because I'd like to do it with them (no change there).

[Ressie]

This thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?200083-I-m-starting-to-ogle-women-for-totally-different-reasons-now...


We've had many, many threads like this over the years. Not wanting to paint with a broad brush, but I'd say the feelings expressed here are almost universal among CDers as they begin to accept the CDing within themselves, and begin to develop a desire to present realistically as a beautiful woman.

My question: Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general? For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship? And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?

Also, for those of you who occasionally fantasize about being with men while dressed, did these fantasies begin at the same time as you began looking at women's appearances critically rather than eyeing them as hot babes?

Thanks in advance for all the responses.

Broad brush? I get it! I like using the word broad it's so un-PC. Is it assumed that we all look at women critically and see them as sisters? I guess I'm not reading enough of the threads to keep up with this. I'm an exception since I don't have a strong desire to present as a woman. Maybe I'll progress someday, but not now.

How I see women - when and why I'm attracted to them is complex. Some women seem to naturally walk and move in ways that are very attractive. I feel sorry for those that just aren't good looking no matter how much they try. I've been single for years which has given me more freedom to look at women, but I don't see many as sisters. I see broads!

[docrobbysherry]

Reine, please remember: I'm old, straight, and probably sexist!

I've never thot of a female as a "sister". Even my sister! I'm either attracted to them or not. Then, I either like their company or not.

The way females think is completely incomprehensible to me. I'm a guy. It's almost like I'm a different species!

[Victoria Davison]

I hope when I started that thread every other member didn't smack their collective foreheads and say to themselves "not another one!" :doh:

For me, my sexuality emerged from the swirling hot mess of puberty many years ago, and it's very fluid and complicated, and I've had the gamut of sexual urges and partners over the years. Yet, as I have recently been able to really engage in CD, my critical eye is developing just now, so for me it seems very separated from my sexuality. I can check out a woman with my "sexual desire" mindset one moment, then switch over to my CD mindset, or do both at the same time. But in any case, they are two different aspects of how I project my ego onto others in my mind.

[kimdl93]

No, I dont see my wife in a more platonic manner. I want to look presentable...I have no illusions about beauty. Looking at women critically...hmmm, well, I may have better technical understanding about what goes into a woman presenting well, but I don't spend a lot of time critically analyzing every woman I see. If I see an attractive woman, regardless of age, I may think for a moment, that looks cute...nah, not for me...and then simply enjoy the view, aethetically speaking. I spose when my wife is getting dressed, I do the same thing - gosh thats cute...would it work for me...yes or no or maybe, but then its back to "Honey, you look great". It certainlly doesn't get in the way of being attracted to her physically.

Im not interested in men - that phase came before I started dressing regularly...it was college, you know, experimenting ;)

[whowhatwhen]

Interestingly enough, although I had a few crushes on some girls growing up I've never really thought of them in a sexual context.
I won't deny being a bit curious though but I always view women through a platonic lens.

[heatherdress]

Although I dress like a woman and enjoy looking like a woman, I know I am a man who likes to dress like a woman and look like a woman. Thus, crossdressing has not influenced me to consider woman as sisters.

I also do not fantasize about being with men when dressed.

[ReineD]

Thanks so much, everyone. I'm relieved to see that for many of you, the critical admiration of women is quite separate from your sexual attraction to them. Having the former does not mean that the latter disappears!

Phew! All is well in Reine's world now. The survival of our species is not threatened. :D :D :D

[heatherdress]

Phew, thank you Reine, for an interesting and reassuring question.

[bridget thronton]

I am very monogamous and only attracted to my wife (years of being married and seeing myself as married). My female friends are more like sisters or cousins. I enjoy their company and conversation. I have also learned to see beauty in all people.
.

[Kathinja Galaxy]

I understand the question, but I'm having a hard time placing myself into the scenario...

I've always been bi-sexual, and I have never thought of a boy or girl being any kind of different other than the parts they have.. So when it comes to forming relationships or picking girls apart because I dress, I would say it really only effects the picking apart thing simply because I now have a wider range of knowledge about things like makeup and clothing.. However, I have always looked at each individual as an A-sexual creature, and focused more on the admiration of their appearance and personality to the point where I appreciate beauty where it is, mind, body and soul.

That being said, that is also a large reason I dress in the first place.. Every individual dresses in the clothing they feel comfortable in, and regardless of what inevitably caused me to do such things, I simply have the desire to be comfortable. I can be sexy and comfortable, or lazy and comfortable, or naked and comfortable. When It comes down to it I guess that's how I've always been D;

[Samantha_Smile]

I am hetro and in a relationship with a GG.
Since Ive really gotten in to dressing, I've noticed that I used to look at a girl -'Ass-Boobs-Face' and then cast a judgement, usually on the classic 1-10 scale.
Now I go -'Shoes-Legwear/skirt-ass-top/jacket-dress?-boobs-Nails-Face-how did she do that with her eyes?-Hair-Shoes again-Is she dressing for her body type or the body type she wishes she had?' then cast a judgement Marking 5 points each for outfit, body, face and overall, top score 20.

Still a little crude I know, but honestly, I look more at what girls wear these days rather than look at girls.
This isn't to say that I now dream of bonking blokes, I have a GF that keeps my attention, that's all.

[samanthasolo]

I adore women, I enamor women, and I am solely attracted to women. As far as sister thing, well I don't consider my wife a sister or MY SISTER. while I am dressed we may be GF's. She will call me her GIRL! Realistically speaking in my CD/TG reality I will usually consider those such as myself as sisters.

[donnalee]

The "sisterhood" thing came right after the "soul brother/soul sister" era and before the "Rainbow Coalition". I grew up in the 40s and 50s with 2 elder sisters, so I always considered females the superior sex. I also thought that people had the right to call themselves anything they wished and to be respected for it, not a usual opinion for the time.
The way it worked out was that both of my sisters wound up with doctorates; I was the college drop out even though I had the highest IQ. I've always treated women with the utmost respect, but one thing I never understood was the utter hostility of some.

[Claire Cook]

Reine,

Very interesting thread. For my part, once I accepted the fact that I am transgendered and began exploring my life Out and About, I did find that the way I look and interact with other women changed. I don't look at them as possible sex partners any more, and I don't spend time staring at their bustlines. I do appreciate how they dress, and how they are put together. More eye contact, more smiles, and more talk. If I stare, it is at eyes and earrings. As for sex with my wife, if anything, that has become more sensual for us both.

[linda allen]

................... My question: Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general? For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship? And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?..........

For me, age is what is changing my sexuality towards women in general.

As for my relationship (married), my and my wife's age are contributing to a more platonic relationship, not my dressing.

It's heck getting old, but it beats the alternative!

[Kelly Smith]

This thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?200083-I-m-starting-to-ogle-women-for-totally-different-reasons-now...

My question: Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general? For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship? And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?

One of my housemates asked me about a sketch I had done for a figure drawing class at UW. I confirmed that it was done from a live model who was nude. He asked me if I was aroused while working. I wasn't. Lust doesn't survive the transition to the artists' mental state.

In my everyday mind I see women as I always have. Since I became a crossdresser I experience a shift similar to the one described above but I shift right back. I have developed a change in tastes (still hetero) but there has been no attenuation of my interest.

[ReineD]

One of my housemates asked me about a sketch I had done for a figure drawing class at UW. I confirmed that it was done from a live model who was nude. He asked me if I was aroused while working. I wasn't. Lust doesn't survive the transition to the artists' mental state.

I've been drawing nude models, both men and women for years and it's true, we do adopt a rather clinical view of it all. For me, it is all about the shape that is formed by the light and shadow, the texture, the line movement whether it is angular or undulating, the contrasts. the models are not sexual objects for me, but when I'm into it, I see no separation between myself, my hand, the medium, the paper, and the model. It's as if we are all one.

Maybe it's the same for CDers?

[Kelly Smith]

It's not quite "zen in the art of crossdressing" ;) but its hard for me to take a sexual interest while doing a technical examination.

[Miriam-J]

And I always thought that dispassionate examination was reserved for engineers and doctors. Didn't expect it from artists since the stereotype is driven by passion and emotion. I'll have to discuss with my artist friends now.

Miriam

[Frédérique]

Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general? For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship?

I’m beginning to understand you, Reine. You keep insisting that MtF crossdressing HAS to be about sexuality, no matter what the crossdressers say. Any other explanation would undermine your educational background on the subject, and perhaps throw the dissector into a tizzy. How else would you explain this thread, or your quick response to Veronica27’s thread? What? A CD topic that describes a personal world NOT ruled by sexuality? Oh, perish the thought…

I’m not taking opposite tack (again) to get my jollies, believe me, but I think this insistence on sexuality, above all other feelings, may be misleading to some MtF crossdressers. Someone who comes here would, I feel, immediately get the idea that they have stumbled into a sexual labyrinth of sorts, and not a place to discuss how awesome it is to wear panties. No, it must be about questions of sexuality! Why else would someone crossdress in the first place? Sigh…

I’ve heard you trot out the same old tired chestnut, time and time again, that males see females as “hot babes,” and that must fuel their desire to crossdress. I guess this irks you in some way, otherwise why would you keep bringing it up? Believe me, some of us males don’t do that, preferring cool to hot at all times, and, while we’re at it, some of us are not babe-oriented, OK? Some of us also don’t view ALL women as potential sexual partners, nor do we see them as “sisters” once we wear their clothes and emulate their overall female-ness. It ain’t necessarily so…

I don’t look at women critically. Why bother? I can’t get there from here, as they say in rural America. In my case I’m on a personal (epic) adventure, fraught with difficulty, destination unknown. Meanwhile, I like to wear women’s clothing (sound familiar?). If an alleged babe walks by, I may glance at her, just like I’ll glance at the clouds in the sky, the trees blowing in the wind, the smile on a child’s face, the “For Sale” sign in front of a house, and the old man trying to cross the road. Based on that, all things being equal, sexuality does not rule my existence…

I will admit that, once the MtF crossdresser dons his favorite outfit, he dips himself in a “Marie’s Bath” of sensuality, and perhaps sexual thought, depending on his emotional makeup. This is somewhat inevitable, and it does, or can, alter one’s perception of females. However, after a few moments of (brief) reflection, he realizes that not much has changed, besides the clothes, that is, unless he comes to this site and learns that his simple pleasures are actually very complicated. Who is responsible for this tragedy? That’s too easy to answer, if you ask me…

I'm not trying to pick on you, Reine (others pick on me, don't they?), but you represent the party line, whereby ALL crossdressing is viewed in terms of sexuality. In this heady atmosphere of debate, I can only offer my meek voice of protest, even though I know it's falling on deaf ears. I don't see women as sex objects, and I certainly don't see myself as a sex object when I'm dressed as a woman. In case you're wondering, I'm not a gay male either...
:straightface:

[Kelly Smith]

I’ve heard you trot out the same old tired chestnut, time and time again, that males see females as “hot babes,” and that must fuel their desire to crossdress. I guess this irks you in some way, otherwise why would you keep bringing it up? Believe me, some of us males don’t do that, preferring cool to hot at all times, and, while we’re at it, some of us are not babe-oriented, OK? Some of us also don’t view ALL women as potential sexual partners, nor do we see them as “sisters” once we wear their clothes and emulate their overall female-ness. It ain’t necessarily so…

I don’t look at women critically. Why bother? I can’t get there from here, as they say in rural America. In my case I’m on a personal (epic) adventure, fraught with difficulty, destination unknown. Meanwhile, I like to wear women’s clothing (sound familiar?). If an alleged babe walks by, I may glance at her, just like I’ll glance at the clouds in the sky, the trees blowing in the wind, the smile on a child’s face, the “For Sale” sign in front of a house, and the old man trying to cross the road. Based on that, all things being equal, sexuality does not rule ...
...I don't see women as sex objects, and I certainly don't see myself as a sex object when I'm dressed as a woman.
:straightface:

Freddie, If you say you have no greater interest in a sexually attractive woman than you have in an old man in a crosswalk, I can only take you at your word. But I am - by definition - sexually attracted to sexually attractive women. By some three-railed psychological bank-shot I don't understand, that DOES fuel my desire to emulate them.

[Jenniferathome]

This thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?200083-I-m-starting-to-ogle-women-for-totally-different-reasons-now...

My question: Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general?
Thanks in advance for all the responses.

I certainly do not see women as sisters. As a man, I find them attractive but as a married man, it will never lead to anything. As a cross dresser I look at their style and take mental notes if appropriate. One does not cross the other boundary.

[docrobbysherry]

To me, looking at an attractive woman and having Sherry imitate that look is as different as nite and day!

Looking is simply that. I'm old now, but I've never thot about sex with a strange woman just because I found her attractive. I MAY think about sex after I met her and we chatted a while.

Dressing Sherry like an attractive woman is a different thing entirely. Without a spoken word, we both know if sex is on the menu!

[ReineD]

I’m beginning to understand you, Reine. You keep insisting that MtF crossdressing HAS to be about sexuality, no matter what the crossdressers say.

Nope, it was just a question. Have a look at my second post. I was relieved with the answers. :)

If you were a hetero GG in a relationship with a CDer, you'd be concerned if you read time after time in this forum that (most?) CDers eventually stop looking at women the way that non-CDers look at them, and start looking at them as sisters. And then turn around and read, when the question is asked, that more than half the members in a thread are attracted to men when dressed. It's not a stretch to put two and two together.

Hence my question, based on what I read here. It was not an accusation.



I’ve heard you trot out the same old tired chestnut, time and time again, that males see females as “hot babes,” and that must fuel their desire to crossdress. I guess this irks you in some way, otherwise why would you keep bringing it up?

It's the contrary, Freddy. I'd love nothing more than for men to continue to be attracted to women more than their clothes.

Also, I don't believe that looking at women fuels a desire to dress for all CDers, at least not in the beginning. The need to dress is much deeper than that. But some CDers will tell you that eventually, seeing an attractive woman makes them want to dress because they want to be her. Surely you've read this time and time again here?

Why do I keep bringing up how CDers see women? Because I find the crossdressing paradoxical.


I think this insistence on sexuality, above all other feelings, may be misleading to some MtF crossdressers. Someone who comes here would, I feel, immediately get the idea that they have stumbled into a sexual labyrinth of sorts, and not a place to discuss how awesome it is to wear panties.

Yet another paradox. If a crossdresser thinks that wearing panties is awesome, how can that not be sexual? Don't non-CDers get all excited when they see visuals of women in their underwear? And aren't CDers and non-CDers both men?

[Frédérique]

Freddie, If you say you have no greater interest in a sexually attractive woman than you have in an old man in a crosswalk, I can only take you at your word.

I AM the old man in the crosswalk. That may explain a few things. Also, keep in mind that I’m an artist, observing all the time, painting pictures in my mind. To me, everything is either beautiful or ugly, sometimes at the same time, and always interesting…


Have a look at my second post. I was relieved with the answers.

I wonder if anyone has ever accused YOU of trolling? :thinking:


Also, I don't believe that looking at women fuels a desire to dress for all CDers, at least not in the beginning. The need to dress is much deeper than that. But some CDers will tell you that eventually, seeing an attractive woman makes them want to dress because they want to be her. Surely you've read this time and time again here?

I’m not trying to denigrate your viewpoint, but your insistence on attractiveness as a starting point for crossdressing irks me. Honestly, when I began to dress-up I had a few “models” to choose from, but they would never have been seen by anyone (except me) as attractive, and certainly not sexually attractive. Anyway, I used my collected memories as a starting point, did the best I could (under the circumstances), and came up with something I had not expected. I was pleased, surprisingly so, enjoying the “change of scenery” I had created from found materials. In many ways I’m a collage of a woman, made up of disparate parts and influences. From that point on I just improved upon what I had already achieved, so no babe ogling was ever necessary…


If a crossdresser thinks that wearing panties is awesome, how can that not be sexual? Don't non-CDers get all excited when they see visuals of women in their underwear? And aren't CDers and non-CDers both men?

Believe it or not, wearing panties is not sexual for me. If you insist that tight fabric stretched over one’s genitals equates sexual pleasure, you may be right in most instances. However, in my case, I feel like the boy is under control, clad in a highly fetishistic containment vessel, and he can STAY there. If I had started crossdressing when I was undergoing puberty, my relationship to it would be very different, but, as it turned out, later in life, I was interested in suppressing sexual thought, not magnifying it. Crossdressing helps. I’m a unique case in many ways, but going against the grain has become my SOP…

I also don’t get excited when I see pictures of women in their underwear. I’d rather see them nude, which brings us, quite nicely, to the next quote:


I've been drawing nude models, both men and women for years and it's true, we do adopt a rather clinical view of it all. For me, it is all about the shape that is formed by the light and shadow, the texture, the line movement whether it is angular or undulating, the contrasts. the models are not sexual objects for me, but when I'm into it, I see no separation between myself, my hand, the medium, the paper, and the model. It's as if we are all one. Maybe it's the same for CDers?

We have something in common, for I drew from nude models for years in life classes at art school and beyond. I never once came across a sexually attractive female model all the time that I did that. It’s exactly like you say – you’re concentrating on making the drawing, capturing the gesture, and rendering what you see with the best of your ability. It could be a still life of some kind, but it happens to be a nude. It was very challenging, a lot of work, and not the pleasurable exercise that many people think it is…

BTW, I had a male friend who would sit right up front in life drawing class, anticipating the imminent arrival of a nude female. If a MALE model showed up, he would pick up his drawing materials and make his way to the back of the class. I was always somewhere in the middle. My art school friend and I had a mutual friend, and we three males would often go places together in Boston. My two friends would ALWAYS be ogling any attractive female that happened to home into view, even though they were both married and had children! That seemed rather vulgar to me, so that may explain why I don’t like it when you “paint with a broad brush,” as you did in the OP…
:straightface:

[Beverley Sims]

When I was younger I was able to meet and talk with women and gain a friendly rappour.
This led me into several more relationships than I would have had presenting as a male.
When I got married I had a more tolerant view than I think I would have and my relationship has always been loving.
From a photographic standpoint I still view some as hot babes because I think they would be successful looking into the lens.
There are some very photogenic women that present quite ordinary but do have charm, charisma and vitality.
I think it is the outlook, grooming and personality that carries them through long before the nice bum slim figure and big tits.
To do a survey I do have to ogle a little, I am better as a woman, as in the summer I wear sunglasses and I don't think I am noticed as much.

[DebbieL]

This thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?200083-I-m-starting-to-ogle-women-for-totally-different-reasons-now...

We've had many, many threads like this over the years. Not wanting to paint with a broad brush, but I'd say the feelings expressed here are almost universal among CDers as they begin to accept the CDing within themselves, and begin to develop a desire to present realistically as a beautiful woman.

I'll start by qualifying myself as a transsexual rather than just a CD. I started very young (5 years old), when dressing was mostly an emotional thrill, rather than anything sexual. I didn't want to be a girl until I found out that I WASN'T a girl. Back when I thought all I had to do to become a girl was grow my hair longer.


My question: Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general? For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship? And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?

I've seen women with 3 pairs of eyes. When I see a beautiful woman in a beautiful outfit, the strongest part of me wants to BE that woman and WEAR that outfit, and look as beautiful as she does. Another part of me wants her to make love to me, while I'm dressed like she is and looking that beautiful.

Beyond that, I begin to observe who the woman REALLY is, and WHY is she dressed so nicely? Is she dressing to impress a new boyfriend, to close a business deal? To intimidate men she might be doing business with? Is she hunting for a new man? Is she into manipulating men, getting what she wants - money, drugs, power - for sexual attraction and titillation?

Being friends with girls, and later women, has always come naturally. We can converse easily about a wide variety of subjects ranging from diets and cooking to child care and even fashion. At the same time, I realized that discussing fashion too much gave me away, so I did avoid certain subjects that would "Out" me as transgendered.

When it came to sexual partners however, I rarely took the initiative, and rarely refused any woman who did take the initiative. I found that the women who took charge and let me know in no uncertain terms, what we were going to do, when, and where, were far more exciting to me than women who wanted me to seduce them.

Many of these women were more "Masculine" in behavior and nature, even if not in appearance. Some of these women could dress like sexy beautiful women, but their attitudes about sex, romance, and love were more like men. I was drawn to such women and found them irresistible.


Also, for those of you who occasionally fantasize about being with men while dressed, did these fantasies begin at the same time as you began looking at women's appearances critically rather than eyeing them as hot babes?

I've often considered the possibility that if I had started dressing publicly while I was still drinking, I might have found myself really enjoying men. The big problem for me was that I had a lot of baggage that came from boys being very brutal and violent with me when I was a "Sissy".

I experimented with men a few times but since I was not dressed, that I wasn't very receptive to anything they wanted to do. I could please them, but even then, there were certain smells and experiences that were quite unpleasant.

What I DID notice is that I have been more attracted to more masculine looking women, especially when they were the sexual aggressors. If an unusually beautiful and feminine woman showed interest, I would tend to be wary, wondering what she was setting me up for. On the other hand, if a more masculine looking woman was being very aggressive, and I wasn't otherwise committed, then I'd be putty in her hands.

Where this was most pronounced was in my drinking days. When I would go to parties, I would tend to be "Rex the Bashful Nerd", until I went into the black-out and Debbie took over. At that point, I would flirt with other women, looking them in the eye, giving them a sly smile, and letting them take me to the coat room, and push my head between their legs. The girls knew that I was eager to please and expected nothing in return.

When I was a bit over 30 years old, my sponsor suggested that I write an inventory, but ONLY when dressed as Debbie, to see if anything new or different came out. I was astonished when, during quiet meditation prior to writing, nearly ALL of my memories of the black-outs came rushing in. It was like a flashback. Some of it was very funny, much of it was enjoyable, some was a bit scary. There was also a flood of shame and guilt at being such a "****". More than anything though, was a sense of regret that I had never revealed my secret and that I had kept Debbie so repressed that she could only come out when Rex was in black-out.

There were some aspects of sex with men that I didn't experience until my second wife introduced me to them when I was in my late 40s. If I'd known how much fun that was, I would have wanted more of that much earlier. Still, I suspect there is a big difference between a strap-on and a real man.


Thanks in advance for all the responses.

As I said, I am a transsexual, who started dressing very young. There were years when I was in denial, pretending to be "just a cross-dresser", just to make the relationship "safe" for my lover or wife. In secret, I knew that if I could be a beautiful, or even just a reasonably attractive, woman, and I could do it instantly, without consequences, and at little or no personal cost - I would have snapped up the opportunity in a heartbeat.

The problem was that even though I didn't know much, I had learned that transition could cost as much as $100,000 for all procedures, took 2-3 years, and that I could lose wife, job, family, friends, and children. It didn't even occur to me that these would be replaced with friends, lovers, and jobs where I would be loved and accepted as Debbie, or whatever I wanted to call myself, once I completed the transition.

I often ask myself the question "If you had a lover who totally pleased you, and loved you as a woman, would you be OK with the fact that he was a male?". I suspect that if I'd had that positive experience, I might have actually accepted it, even enjoyed it.

My biggest regret is that I didn't transition when I was younger, in my twenties or early thirties.

[jenni_xx]

Beyond that, I begin to observe who the woman REALLY is, and WHY is she dressed so nicely? Is she dressing to impress a new boyfriend, to close a business deal? To intimidate men she might be doing business with? Is she hunting for a new man? Is she into manipulating men, getting what she wants - money, drugs, power - for sexual attraction and titillation?

Or maybe she's dressing, not to impress anyone, or to intimidate anyone, or to manipulate anyone. Maybe she's not dressing for sexual attraction and/or titillation. Maybe, just maybe, she's dressing for herself and only for herself.

That you listed the things you did, that those things run through your mind when you see women, tells its own story. A story that is suggestive of how you view women. What you regard women to be. And how you think women integrate into society and the part they play.

I'm sorry, but I felt really offended when I read the part of your post that I quoted above. There is an inherent sexism contained within your comment that simply astounds me. Even more so that it's come from a person who identifies themselves as transsexual.

[ReineD]

I’m not trying to denigrate your viewpoint, but your insistence on attractiveness as a starting point for crossdressing irks me.

You must be reading my post incorrectly.

Nowhere did I say that CDers are motivated to CD by a sexual attraction to women. In fact, I was concerned and asked about the opposite. I was afraid that CDers eventually stop finding women attractive (the way that non-CDing men find women attractive), in favor of liking her clothes more and wanting to BE her more (as was suggested over and over again in the thread that I linked), in short, wanting to be her sister which is a rather platonic way to be. And at the same time I asked if increased fantasies of wanting to be with men (surely you've seen those threads as well) coincided with the seemingly decreased sexual attraction to women.

But as mentioned earlier, I am relieved by reading the answers to this thread that my fears are unfounded. And no, I am not trolling. I genuinely am perplexed by the paradoxes involved.


My two friends would ALWAYS be ogling any attractive female that happened to home into view, even though they were both married and had children! That seemed rather vulgar to me, ...

This does explain why you don't understand my question. I'm comparing CDers to the men that I do know who are average red-blooded males, and whose natural instincts are to find women sexually attractive. They ogle women, as you say. I gather that you are different, as are the CDers who say they favor a woman's clothes and appreciate her style more than finding her sexually attractive (the thread that I linked to). Yet in this thread, most members say that the two are separate. Do you not see the paradox? Most of the non-CD men that I know, know absolutely nothing about feminine fashion, nor do they care ... so nothing stands in their way of being sexually attracted to a woman. Parenthetically I'll add that being hetero, I very much like the idea that men and women are sexually attracted to one another.

I don't think I can explain it any clearer than this.

But, I do believe the members who responded to my question, who said that the two are separate and I'll just have to accept that I fundamentally do not understand the paradox of a CDer's motivation to look at women the way that he does.

[jenni_xx]

I see nothing wrong in you raising your question Reine. Whenever any question is asked (on internet forums especially), people can often lose sight of the reasons why such a question is being asked. Frederique seems to be imposing upon you an "opinion" that you are asking your question from a position that will doubt any answer you receive (and thus doubt the "integrity" of crossdressers as a result), as opposed to allowing you the freedom to ask such a question because you genuinely don't know the answer.

I would love to provide my own opinion in regards to your question, but because I'm gay I'm not the person to do so. Or am I? After all, I've had girlfriends in the past, and have been genuinely attracted to women in the past. If I were to be completely honest with myself, from a subconscious perspective, I wouldn't be able to genuinely say which came first - my crossdressing or my homosexuality. In literal terms, that is, which did I engage in first, the answer would be crossdressing. I experienced that long before I had any sexual experience (indeed, long before I reached puberty). But I've often wondered if, in my case (even if ONLY in my case), my cding and homosexuality are intertwined. All I can say in wondering that is that (again in my case), the realisation that I am gay didn't coincide with any elevation in my desire to crossdress. In fact, the opposite happened. When I came out, and began dating men, a desire or inclination to crossdres dwindled. Which itself makes me wonder - was I crossdressing as a (subconsciously motivated) substitute for my homosexuality?

Or indeed, maybe it's the case that these two aspects of my life are not related at all. Maybe even in merely wondering if they are related, I myself am falling into a trap of misconception - one that we see echoed on this site many times when cd's come out to their partners and their partners respond by questioning their sexuality.

For what it's worth Reine, even though I'm a crossdresser myself, neither do I "fundamentally understand the paradox of a CDer's motivation. It's probable (although not by any means impossible) that the majority of CD's don't understand it either. We all have our reasons - we all have our catalysts, but do we truly know? I'm not so sure.

[ReineD]

For what it's worth Reine, even though I'm a crossdresser myself, neither do I "fundamentally understand the paradox of a CDer's motivation. It's probable (although not by any means impossible) that the majority of CD's don't understand it either. We all have our reasons - we all have our catalysts, but do we truly know? I'm not so sure.

You've got a point! Thanks for your response, and thanks everyone else too, even Freddy. :hugs:

[Frenchy Michelle]

I wish I were a "true" woman with the body that fit all these beautiful dresses as I love to look and feel sexy. But then as I picture how it would be then I suddenly have that vision of men looking and lurking at my feet and legs (my best feature) and I understand the dilema women must be facing everyday between loving to look and feel sexy and become a potential subject to harrassement from men looking at every part of her body with dirty thoughts. It must be quite difficult to go through. That helped me understand women better I think, well I guess so as I am not in their shoes and don't have their psyche.

Even though I love to crossdress, I still very much find women attractive. The only difference compared to before I started crossdressing is that I now sometimes envy their shoes, lol.

[ReineD]

I understand the dilema women must be facing everyday between loving to look and feel sexy and become a potential subject to harrassement from men looking at every part of her body with dirty thoughts. It must be quite difficult to go through.

Actually, it's not. The vast majority of men that I and most other women encounter on a day to day basis do not treat women coarsely with lewdness. Most guys know better than to treat a woman this way, if they want any. lol. Seriously ... providing of course that we don't hang out in the wrong parts of town late at night, but then most average women do not. :p

I may catch a glimpse of appreciation in a man's eyes when he sees me especially if I've taken the time to put myself together, but this is a compliment, not harassment.

[Frédérique]

This does explain why you don't understand my question. I'm comparing CDers to the men that I do know who are average red-blooded males, and whose natural instincts are to find women sexually attractive. They ogle women, as you say. I gather that you are different, as are the CDers who say they favor a woman's clothes and appreciate her style more than finding her sexually attractive (the thread that I linked to). Yet in this thread, most members say that the two are separate. Do you not see the paradox? Most of the non-CD men that I know, know absolutely nothing about feminine fashion, nor do they care ... so nothing stands in their way of being sexually attracted to a woman. Parenthetically I'll add that being hetero, I very much like the idea that men and women are sexually attracted to one another.

You’ve already stated that you were “happy with the responses,” so I’m merely trying to go beyond that and explore a few...variations. You’re sadly mistaken if you think I’m not sexually attracted to females, so I would thank you if you would kindly drop that notion. I am not very different from my friends (as I have described), but my sexual interest in women, and my MtF crossdressing, are kept separate from each other. You don’t (or won’t) believe me, but that’s what’s going on. I have such a keen interest in sexual matters, almost to the point of it being a problem, that I’m trying to suppress that BY crossdressing. It may seem to you like that’s a funny way to go about things, but it works for me. Not being a crossdresser yourself, how could you appreciate such inner struggles and personal triumphs?

Most non-CD (heterosexual) men have no interest in fashion? Perhaps. Is that another broad statement? I don’t really have any interest in fashion, either. Well, I don’t get to SEE any in my little corner of the world, as I have already explained. Nothing stands in the way of me being sexually attracted to women, except crossdressing, which I employ as a balm to sooth my soul. I may not ogle women these days, but I certainly did when I was younger. I’m older now, more mature, and my crossdressing has forever changed the playing field in terms of sexual attraction. The “boy” is still there, but he is attracted to other things these days. I can’t help but tell you that being on this site, and inserting myself into these meaningless discussions ABOUT matters pertaining to crossdressing, has further called my inherent sexual attraction into question. I mean, why bother?

I see the paradox you are attempting to describe, but it’s obvious you cannot “see” the paradox that my "brand" of crossdressing represents. However, that’s neither here nor there – you make sweeping statements, with your aforementioned broad brush, and we poor misunderstood MtF’ers, individuals all, have to sit here and suffer in silence...

How do I look at women? Askance, these days, I would say...:straightface:


Frederique seems to be imposing upon you an "opinion" that you are asking your question from a position that will doubt any answer you receive (and thus doubt the "integrity" of crossdressers as a result), as opposed to allowing you the freedom to ask such a question because you genuinely don't know the answer.

Not true, in MY humble opinion. Generalizations (like those put forth in the OP) have to be countered in some way, otherwise some people might get the wrong idea about crossdressers. I simply don’t see how a non-crossdresser can expound upon issues of MtF crossdressing. I mean, I ACTUALLY crossdress, yet I get the feeling my opinions, based on experiences, count for nothing around here. I’m not imposing these opinions, I’m merely offering them, in the hope that certain people may come to see males in a new, non-prejudicial light...

Personally, I think Reine enjoys these point-counterpoint exercises in futility. I mean, I see these after nearly every sentence: :)

[ReineD]

You’re sadly mistaken if you think I’m not sexually attracted to females, so I would thank you if you would kindly drop that notion.

Maybe we're both guilty of reading between the lines, then. I took it when you said you felt your friends' actions were vulgar, that you also felt that sexual attraction to women was vulgar. I apologize.

Freddy, please understand that as a GG I don't inhabit a man's skin (obviously) so they are a mystery to me to begin with. Still, I've gleaned over the years that men are visual creatures and they are wired to look at a woman with a view to assessing her sex appeal, to put it mildly. I consider this natural and I'll further add that women are wired to make themselves appealing to the man of their choice, at least when they are looking for mates. It's the age-old question of the birds and the bees, if you will.

But when you add to this the different behaviors that CDers engage in, when CDers no longer look at an attractive woman as a sexually appealing creature in favor of admiring her fashion style and possibly fantasizing what the style will look like on themselves, and further fantasize what it would feel like to look like her (see the thread that I linked to), then there is a departure from what I know of men's motives and behaviors. Hence the paradox. Hence my question.

I assure you that this whole topic is exceedingly puzzling to many of the GGs who are in relationships with CDers. But as mentioned earlier, if CDers can admire a woman's style while still retaining the ability to be sexually attracted to her, then I will choose to believe it even though it is difficult for me to understand, especially since in the other thread the admiration for the woman's style took precedence over any sexual attraction to her.

But, I've explained this enough and now I will step back and allow those who want to, respond to my initial question.

[jenni_xx]

Not true, in MY humble opinion. Generalizations (like those put forth in the OP) have to be countered in some way, otherwise some people might get the wrong idea about crossdressers. I simply don’t see how a non-crossdresser can expound upon issues of MtF crossdressing. I mean, I ACTUALLY crossdress, yet I get the feeling my opinions, based on experiences, count for nothing around here. I’m not imposing these opinions, I’m merely offering them, in the hope that certain people may come to see males in a new, non-prejudicial light...


Does there really need to be such a distinction? Why can't a non-crossdresser expound upon such issues? I simply don't understand that. I'm not a film-maker, yet I can talk about, and be critical (positively and negatively) about films. The idea that only the views of those who are directly involved in something matter is an idea that will only ever lead to segregation. I, as a crossdresser, don't want to feel as though I'm on the outskirts of society. I want to feel as though I belong and have a rightful place within it. For me to understand others requires me to listen to them, just as much as I require others to listen to me if they are to understand me.

You say that you get the feeling that your opinions count for nothing. That simply isn't true. I do however get the impression that because you are "getting that feeling", you are in turn reducing the opinions of others down "to nothing", especially others who themselves are not crossdressers. That you emphasis your status (as someone who "ACTUALLY crossdresses") only serves to emphasise this point. I ACTUALLY crossdress also. Does it mean I understand it more than you? No, it doesn't. Nor does it mean that I understand it more than someone who has lived the best part of their life with someone who does. You say you're not imposing your opinions. I believe you. However, what you are imposing is a kind of hierarchy, one that suggest that a person who does crossdress knows more, and has a more valid opinion than someone who doesn't. I will not, can not, ever agree with such a view.

[CynthiaD]

Crossdressing hasn't changed my attitude, but it has clarified my feelings about men and women. I find women sexually attractive, but I could never understand why women weren't considered equal to men. I was a strong supporter of women's equality long before the term "feminist" came into general use. When women weren't treated equally, I always took it personally. Now that I've accepted myself as transgendered, I understand why I've always felt this way. Because I am a woman, I resent it when other women are treated badly.

[Kate T]

We've had many, many threads like this over the years. Not wanting to paint with a broad brush, but I'd say the feelings expressed here are almost universal among CDers as they begin to accept the CDing within themselves, and begin to develop a desire to present realistically as a beautiful woman.

A part of me just wants to get all feminist and go "so exactly what is beautiful anyway", sometimes I think all CD / TG / TS should be made to read the various feminist foundation authors e.g. Germaine Greer, Virginia Woolf, Naomi Woolf.

And then another part says "but you do do it yourself". Yes, I do look at women and judge their appearance and their appearance is an initial instigator of interest. INITIAL. My attraction to those women is then dramatically altered by non physical characteristics. E.g. Initially I found Gwyneth Paltrow, Cate Blanchett and Angelina Jolie all extremely attractive physically. Then Gwyneth opened her mouth. oops. It's not just the voice, it's the slightly vacuous blond bimbo thing that goes on as well. I mean a cookbook?! Whereas Jolie and Blanchett only become more and more attractive the more I hear from and about them outside of their acting i.e. social justice work etc. OK I'm a bit of an intellectual snob. In some respects seeing them as "sisters" and empathising with their views probably actually makes them MORE sexually attractive!

[Brooklyn]

For the single folks, would you then begin to see a potential lover more as a sister than a potential sexual relationship?

This kinda makes me laugh, since I stopped seeing women as potential sexual relationships a while back. They don't dig CDing, ya know? So I guess "sister" approximates how I feel around GG's now. Being in a hair salon all day, I meet a lot; most are great people.

[Patsy]

Hi Reine. Q1 No, Q2 Yes, Q3 Probably yes. Regards, Patsy.

[Sonya]

Hi Reine, since I started accepting my cd'ing more, I also look at women critically but I think that is quite diffent then their sexual attractiveness to me.

I know your questions are valid but I think it is quite natural to observe and learn about what you enjoy doing or what you have interets in.

[Tara Power]

Definitely in the last week, my attentions have switched from checking out girls ;) to checking out the girls as a whole, what they're wearing, how they're wearing it, what their body type is and if they're stylish and then think about what i'd like to have that they're wearing. Quite a shift from being a red blooded male lol But I find i'm looking less at the type of girls that would be my type and looking more at girls that are 6ft tall or carrying out a few extra pounds like me and trying to deduce how they look so feminine and trying to employ such techniques into my repertoire so that I could possibly be passable as the GGs!

In drab mode, women are what floats my boat, but Im having more of an understanding of what its like to get inside the mind of a GG, but if I was out on a night out as Tara, my intentions wouldn't be to get with another woman, I would definitely like to be considered "one of the sisters".

For me, there is a big line in the sand between being a man attracted to women(who happens to like dressing like women) and being a woman who wants to be herself and be accepted by everyone for who she is most of all (and is probably best described as a lesbian, but not a practising one lol)
EDIT: But I dont know how I feel about as a "woman" towards another CDer, they're my true sisters

[ActuallyMichaela]

I'm not sure whether it's due to the fact that I've always felt more like a woman or my polysexuality, but I definitely see women as "sisters" before potential lovers. Some of my best friends are girls. I think I approach women wanting to be friends first off, then potentially growing into something more. On a different but similar note, girls tend to accept me as "one of the girls" whereas guys tend to see me as really feminine. I still have a lot of guy friends in spite of this, weirdly enough.

[AmandaM]

1. Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general?
2. And for the folks in relationships with women, do you find that your relationship is becoming more platonic, the more you see women as sisters?
3. For those of you who occasionally fantasize about being with men while dressed, did these fantasies begin at the same time as you began looking at women's appearances critically rather than eyeing them as hot babes?

1. I am attracted to them sexually, or wish to be them, but I am not sexually attracted to the idea of being them. These thoughts are mutually exclusive, but they do tend to compete with each other in my head.
2. I think my relationship is becoming more platonic because we're older now, but my thoughts are still as in #1 and haven't changed in my entire life.
3. I desire at times to experience everything a "hot babe" experiences: to look good, to wear great clothes, and to even have sex as a woman. To be blunt, I can have sex with a beautiful woman or be her having sex. Either option appeals to me.

[MonctonGirl]

Do you think that looking at women critically and seeing them as sisters affects your sexuality toward them in general?

No. I'd still bang 'em ...but ... I am now very wary of what genetic defects makeup may be covering
and I appreciate all the time they spend on their hair to make it look nice.

I am however very excited when they bring home shopping bags but also disappointed when they didn't take me on that trip.

[sometimes_miss]

Pretty much the only women who are off limits to my sexual desires are my own related sister and blood relatives. I still feel sexually attracted to and interested in my female friends no matter how friendly I get with them. Being interested in their behavior, make up, hair styling and what and how they wear what they do only makes me more desirous of them as sexual human beings. I never had any sexual desires about men; though that would have been a natural progression from having submissive and/or receptive sexual desires, maybe because I was on the receiving end of beatings at the hands of males as a child, that I found men to be so very repulsive that it killed any desire for relationships with them, that it includes a feeling of distrust and very few male friendships to this day.

[Amy R Lynn]

I have to say that it has taken me a while to get to the point where I can answer this question honestly.

CD'ing has absolutely changed the way I look at women. I look at how they have put them selves together. I can both admire and criticize the ensemble that they have on.

Since accepting this side of me, I have had some fantasies about being with a man. I'm not attracted to men. I have never looked at a man and thought of him as hot or sexy. I've never been aroused by the way a man looks. But, there is this curious part of me that wonders what it would be like to be with a man while I'm En Fem mode. I may have had a couple thoughts like this prior to accepting Amy, but after accepting her they have picked up in frequency quite a bit.

I certainly have found a new respect for everything women go through to look pretty! I admire and respect them more than I ever thought was possible.

[DanielleT]

Since I turned to womanhood, I can't help but look at GG women differently. I often study them closely and try to emulate their actions, how they walk, how they talk, how they hold and conduct themselves into my own lifestyle

[rata]

When I see a women the first thing I do is see what she's wearing and how she looks just like most ggs' do.
I prefer woman friends to male my bff is female.
Sexually I see myself as a lesbian,
I am definitely not attracted to men as a male.

[Barbara Dugan]

I only can see women as sisters not even remotely sexually attracted to them and I can see them as competition

[DarciB]

I find other women very sexy and attactive, when I am in girl mode, I love to flirt. Even though I am "involved" my boyfriend has told me that he wouldn't have any problem if I had a fling with another woman. Someday, maybe, with the right woman.

[Hanlie]

Hi Reine ,

I would like to offer my explanation for the "paradox". In my quest to make sense of myself I found literature that suggest our personalities are made up of "properties" (I can't find a better word). These all have a spectrum and we lie somewhere on that spectrum. Different places on the spectrum for each "property". Two of these "properties" are gender identity and sexual orientation. I lie somewhere between the average and women on gender identity and between hetro and average on sexual orientation. We can thus choose to compartimentilise or integrate but I believe that we do not change. We can also choose to accept or to compensate.

As with all things we spend time on, we learn to understand and appreciate. Thus as we accept who we are, we understand more and appreciate femininity more. I have grown to love it, in myself and all women, especially my wife. I personally therefore do not think we change fundamentally, we grow to appreciate and love.

I do not understand everything or possibly anything, but as very analytical on that spectrum, I have to try.

Hanlie.

[Sally24]

I've always prefered women friends to male friends. I just seem to "fit" in better with females. I always end up in the kitchen talking with all the women in the group instead of hanging out with the men. Since becoming more involved in dressing and going out as a woman I don't think things have changed much. I have more knowledge of style and fashion so can talk better on those subjects. As to sexual attraction to females, that also hasn't really changed. What has changed is where I fit in. I've always been a sensual creature. I'm much more interested in the touching and kissing then the release at the end. Now, in my mind, I am thinking of myself as another female when I am with my wife. It has probably helped me be in tune with my wife better. And don't misunderstand, my wife is not attracted to Sally at all and won't kiss or touch until all signs of Sally are removed. So at least to an external observer, my sexual attraction to women has not changed.

As far as fantasizing about men, that has increased as my presentation has gotten better and I spend more time as Sally. With me it seems to be strictly a sexual fantasy when I am in male mode and really doesn't involve Sally, as paradoxical as that sounds.

[ReineD]

With me it seems to be strictly a sexual fantasy when I am in male mode and really doesn't involve Sally, as paradoxical as that sounds.

Yes, this is indeed a paradox. My SO told me the same thing once. I don't get it. I don't feel threatened by this, a fantasy is a fantasy. Thanks for sharing! :)

[randeegirl]

I just adore women a great deal. I find them so interesting ! I certainly look at them different then I used to. I look at how they move, act, dress, interact, etc.

[Starshine24]

I still look at women just like a stereotypical construction worker you'd see on the tele. However in dress I do fantasize about men but... Well maybe this might be TMI here, but I watch pornography occasionally and while as a guy I watch the woman. While in drag I only occasionally fantasize about being the woman.
As far as how I see women, they are beautiful. Men are well.. Guys and stuff. I watch the misses undress and love it. Hope this gives a Lil insight about me and answers your question.

[Tina_gm]

My Cding has not and does not in any way effect my physical attraction to women. I suppose though that I have always looked at them somewhat different than the non cd male. I probably have always noticed more, observed closer. Now that I have begun the journey of accepting myself as a Cder, I notice more about styles than I used to. Since I now have a better understanding of what it is like to wear skirts dresses, heels, I notice certain things about articles of clothing I haven't noticed before. or I pay even closer attention than before, which was already likely closer than the non cd guy. I pay close attention to what my wife wears, and am more likely to compliment her when I see her wearing something I think truly does well for her. It is probably a giveaway a bit, but sometimes I have caught myself complimenting other women on their choice of earings etc etc.... not sure how many guys do that. I try to remind myself not to but sometimes I just blurt it out.

[MissTee]

Hey Reine, I figured out your motivation for asking the question before you revealed it. I can see how anyone might logically make that observation. I'm certainly not offended by it either, and funny thing is I've wondered if my wife has ever wondered the same thing. You answered that for me

My wife recently told me I'm the same male pig she married all those years ago. Blondes with boobs and butt will snap my neck every time. Only difference is now I notice they also wear shoes. Sometimes really cute ones.

Never cared for guys. I care so much for girls I want to dress like them. Strange, huh?

[Elisa Lace]

In my case, I don't think my attitude has changed much. I've always been more concerned about beauty in harmony. I'm not one of those guys who'll turn his head just because I saw a "big pair of boobs" or a "nice huge firm ass". Overall beauty, harmony and balance has always caught my attention.

But, now that I've opened up myself a little more to my cd'ing, I do consider women's clothing in general as another variable in the harmony factor. I actually relate to Gendermutt in what she says about complimenting girls on small details any man wouldn't do... but in my case I think it's always been that way, all under the "harmony" umbrella.

I do have two trains of thought though... one which sees a woman from a male point of view, and another one from a female point of view (probably learnt from my gf), in which I say to myself "ohhhh that b*tch! How I'd love to have her figure/dress/hair/eyes/whatever", all in a light hearted tone of course haha.

[Taylor Ray]

Reine, first of all I wanted to say great question -- I think your instincts are onto something real here. As a bi-sexual CD I can honestly say that the more I embraced my Cding -- with elaborate wigs and outfits, and intimate encounters with other men -- my perception of females definitely changed.

For me, what has changed is perhaps the type of women I find attractive. I used to always gravitate towards the ultra skinny girl wearing yoga pants in Starbucks or on campus. Now, I almost roll my eyes at those types. I have enlarged my appreciation for the female form in general. Most plus-sized women are more curvy, and I can honestly say that I have enjoyed getting turned on by all types of sizes and shapes.

That being said, I am bi-sexual, and cross-dressing has allowed me to accept and embrace that part of me more fully. But, if you have spent time on this forum, you obviously know that gay and bi-sexual cross-dressers are a minority of the members here.

Perhaps your question would more skillfully be expressed as a question about "what type of cross-dresser" you may be in a relationship with? There is a very real chance that they could be a repressed bi-sexual or gay man working through their identity.

But that certainly doesn't alter the fact that (statistically) the majority of CDs are heterosexuals. However, as a bi-sexual CD my perception of females has certainly changed in many ways. For example, the majority of "hot babes" that a typical heterosexual male finds "hot", I really do not. I prefer un-shaved women who wear knickers from the 1950's. The trend toward "shaving" everything and silicone implants is not appealing to me. A women wearing yoga pants to a grocery store? Really? Not appealing.

So yes, some of the shine and charms wear off...but other feminine qualities can take on a whole new potent and intense meaning...