Stuck in DADT (Don't Ask, Don't Tell)

[CarlaWestin]

I have to appreciate the plateau that has been reached in my journey. My wife's therapist is a gender specialist so she gets professional honest information. The wife is working through other issues so my CD isn't the major talking point. So, I'm out but it's still nothing she wants to see. I don't hide anything any more. Drawers of bras and panties, lines of pairs of high heels and racks of dresses fill my side of the house (think 3 room man-cave) but, she just doesn't want to see it at all. Even under dressing seems to be an issue. I've eliminated every other possible life issue but CD'ing is my passion in life. I'm starting to get tired of still dressing in the shadows and I need some advice on how to get past the DADT wall. I just want to be the all-gender person that I've always been.

Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!

[Tina B.]

Sorry, but you alone can do nothing, it takes two as they say. Unless she gets over it, and being in therapy with a gender specialist, if that doesn't do it, what can you do.
Sometimes there is nothing to be done, or can be done, you just have to figure out if there is room for both of you to get what you need out of the relationship or not., If not, sometimes going your own way is the only option, after all you are both entitled
to find happiness, but there is no guarantee you'll find it together.

[Lynn Marie]

Doesn't it seem to you that you're doing what you want whether your mate likes it or not. It's all about you and if she doesn't like it, "TS". DADT don't work! A relationship based on intimacy degenerates into two people tolerating each other. Hell, I'd rather be dead!

[NicoleScott]

DADT works for those couples that make it work. If you ever had DADT, it has degraded into something that is no longer DADT. You know she doesn't want to see it, yet you don't seem to make any effort to keep it out of her sight. And how does she know you underdress? Does she ask? Do you tell?
For DADT to work, here are the rules:
- she recognizes your need to dress (she doesn't have to like it), but she doesn't want to see it or talk about it. She doesn't snoop or ASK.
- you recognize she doesn't want anything to do with your dressing, and agree to keep it out of her sight. You don't show or TELL.
- if/when either of you can't with live that agreement, you don't BREAK the arrangement, but approach the other for renegotiation.
Maybe the two of you need to quit pretending you have DADT and get to the nitty-gritty.

[linda allen]

.............. I've eliminated every other possible life issue but CD'ing is my passion in life. I'm starting to get tired of still dressing in the shadows and I need some advice on how to get past the DADT wall. I just want to be the all-gender person that I've always been. ...........

You will have to decide if your desire to be the "all-gender person that I've always been" is stronger than your desire to remain married to your wife. I'm guessing that when your wife married you, you were presenting as a "male" and that's what she was marrying. She probably doesn't want to be married to an "all-gender person".

You have the choice of being the man she married or leaving so you can be whatever you want to be. Are you prepared to live alone?

[kimdl93]

You didn't mention hat other issues your wife is dealing with. But please remember that the issues are not separable. She has to live with a complex of emotions. Really, until all her issues can be resolved, she just may not be able to handle open acceptance of your CDing.

[Emogene]

Carla, having read Kim's post and since gender specialists don't exactly have an office on every corner, how did your SO come to a therapist who just happens to be a gender specialist and, surprise surprise, her spouse just happens to be a CD?

I'm not a great believer in coincidence. Just a thought.

[Petra_Briar]

I am living DADT very well...except it is DADTDE (Don't Aks/Don't Tell/Don't Embarass). You need to understand that each person has their desire and requests, and in order for the relationship to work you have to respect and work with it. When I tired to push was when I got the worst reaction. Since my wife and I have come to this agreement, she has bought me women's clothing, gave me a drawer in her dresser (we have two boys that like towear my clothes since wwe are the same size) and will occasionally pick out a dress for me when she and I are shopping.....it can work.

[Asche]

The amount of disrespect and contempt the OP is showing to the person whom he presumably at one time vowed to "love, honor, and cherish" takes my breath away. People here are always talking about being "supportive" to one another, but I don't see a single thing that is worth supporting here.


I don't hide anything any more. Drawers of bras and panties, lines of pairs of high heels and racks of dresses fill my side of the house (think 3 room man-cave) but, she just doesn't want to see it at all.
As others have pointed out, this isn't DADT, this is "I'm going to do whatever I want and shove it in your face and what are you gonna do about it, [epithet deleted]?" THREE ROOMS worth! How many rooms does your wife get all to herself for whatever she feels like doing with them?


but CD'ing is my passion in life.
Your wife obviously is NOT


I just want to be the all-gender person that I've always been.
Which, you seem to be saying, would be impossible if you actually had to relate to and respect someone (e.g., your wife) as if she were a human being.


Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!
No, we'll hate you because you are emotionally abusing the person closest to you. (Yes, the quoted comment is emotional abuse.)

The issue your wife is dealing with isn't your CDing. It's having to live with someone who is so utterly self-centered that he treats his panties with more respect than his wife.

Why don't you do the honest thing and divorce her and marry your mirror? You are obviously only keeping her around so you can look down on her.

[Sometimes Steffi]

You will have to decide if your desire to be the "all-gender person that I've always been" is stronger than your desire to remain married to your wife. I'm guessing that when your wife married you, you were presenting as a "male" and that's what she was marrying. She probably doesn't want to be married to an "all-gender person".

You have the choice of being the man she married or leaving so you can be whatever you want to be. Are you prepared to live alone?


Another way of thinking about DADT is "Hear no evil. See No evil. Speak no evil"

Any good therapist will tell you that you can't change someone else. You can only change yourself and only she can change herself.

So, there are two solutions, and you may not be happy with eiter on them. Dress on "your own time" and don't expect your wife to accept, but at most to tolerate -or- get a divorce

BTW, I chose option 1, and I'm not convinced it's working. But hoping for acceptance wasn't working either.

[docrobbysherry]

How could we possibly know enuff about u and your SO to give u marriage advice, Carla? Especially if u have a qualified therapist involved? U may just ignore advice that doesn't suit u anyway!

I agree u look both pretty and fem judging by your avatar. R u funny, too? Because u bear a striking resemblance to Lucy Ricardo.

[Sara Jessica]

Asche may have come across a bit harsh but sometimes honesty is best served brutally.


Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!

Really?

In the immortal words of Kirsty MacColl, "I don't think so."

You see, I am in some semblance of a "DADT" myself and I can speak to this. You have three rooms of s*$# and it sounds like it's pretty much in her face, should she venture into that part of the house. Ever think that just seeing your s*$# gives her fits? It's bad enough that our SO's view whatever degree of body mods we might exhibit (I'm guilty as charged) as a constant reminder of this TG thing bringing an angst-filled variable into her life but now she turns the corner and sees more clothes and shoes than I guarantee you she would ever own.

Drawers of bras & panties? Racks of dresses? Lines of heels? Ever hear of moderation? With exercising a bit of moderation, perhaps you could be more discrete.

As for your desire to live a more "all-gender" life...


You will have to decide if your desire to be the "all-gender person that I've always been" is stronger than your desire to remain married to your wife. I'm guessing that when your wife married you, you were presenting as a "male" and that's what she was marrying. She probably doesn't want to be married to an "all-gender person".

You have the choice of being the man she married or leaving so you can be whatever you want to be. Are you prepared to live alone?

What Linda said.

Trust me, I've pushed nearly every boundary imaginable but I've either stopped short or retreated a bit in deference to my wife's feelings. You need to get a grip, and get a clue, or else you'll be "all-gender" and alone.

[CarlaWestin]

How could we possibly know enuff about u and your SO to give u marriage advice, Carla? Especially if u have a qualified therapist involved? U may just ignore advice that doesn't suit u anyway!

I agree u look both pretty and fem judging by your avatar. R u funny, too? Because u bear a striking resemblance to Lucy Ricardo.

DRS, thank you for your insightful and refreshing reply. I'm amazed at a certain multi-quote response above that is just full of hate and venom. A little more info: I absolutely LOVE my Wife and I would do anything for her. Maybe she did shop for a therapist with qualifying expertise. I've been invited to a few sessions and it is refreshing to speak with someone who is experienced and understands what's going on in Carla's head. My Wife was aware of my outside-of-the-box proclivities before we were married and sense of humor was one of my strong selling points. Unfortunately, like many CDs, I kept my activity mostly clandestine. I realised that the truth of the matter dictated that I must give her full disclosure to make everything complete. So I did. It's not been easy but, unlike many here, I can truthfully say that I'm 100% honest about everything I do and say. Very few people can make that claim.
On the three room man cave thing, so what. It's 90% non CD stuff and doubles as a guest suite. Wifey's private area is twice the size of mine and piled with shoes and clothes and collectables.
Neither of us keep doors locked. I don't wear her stuff even though she's offered.
I posted here for advice and support and most of the members here offer that in intelligent and informative dialogue. And I thank you all for that.
I feel sorry for the sad individuals that interject their unsavory short comings into everyone else they encounter. I've been asked to remove my signature line so I think in honor to you, DRS, I'm changing it to, "Lucy, I'm home!"

Thanks again, everyone

[Tamara Croft]

Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!Are you serious?? :lol: you are a funny person...

Let's look at this from her point of view. She doesn't want anything to do with it, that is her RIGHT, she doesn't have to like it, she doesn't have to see it, she married a man. But here you are gloating at how many clothes you have, full of bras and panties etc etc.. shoving it right in her face... no wonder she's pissed off. And then the 'don't hate me cus I'm pretty' comment... seriously, get over yourself, your a crossdressing man... there is NO competition and if you think that is harsh, well grow a damn pair :Angry3:

[Sandra]

Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!

Oh my you do put yourself on a high pedestal don't you, you're that pretty that you don't even have a pic of yourself well you know what show us a pic of yourself and your wife then we can decide if you are the pretty one!

I bet your wife would win hands down.

[Kelly DeWinter]

I have to appreciate the plateau that has been reached in my journey.

(keep in mind that what you perceive as a plateau, your spouse may perceive as a chasm, and one that the two of you have to cork together to overcome)

My wife's therapist is a gender specialist so she gets professional honest information.

( Not all gender specialists are informed gender specialists, so unless you and your spouse communicate on some level or you and the specialists, you may not know what information is being passed )

The wife is working through other issues so my CD isn't the major talking point.

(It sounds like she needs her husband a bit more now, would it be more supportive of you to pull back a bit and be there for your spouse ?)

So, I'm out but it's still nothing she wants to see. I don't hide anything any more. Drawers of bras and panties, lines of pairs of high heels and racks of dresses fill my side of the house (think 3 room man-cave) but, she just doesn't want to see it at all.

( So a DADT relationship to you means 3 rooms of in-your-face to your spouse ?)

Even under dressing seems to be an issue. I've eliminated every other possible life issue but CD'ing is my passion in life. I'm starting to get tired of still dressing in the shadows and I need some advice on how to get past the DADT wall. I just want to be the all-gender person that I've always been.

( I,I,I,I I want, I want, I want )
Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!

I'm wondering where your compassion for your spouse is ? You say you love your spouse, but it sounds as if you have brought out a 3 ton mallet and dropped it on your marriage, is this really how you expect acceptance, a change of heart, I know of many girls in a DADT relationship who will once or twice a month go to a local meeting with friends and spend a quiet evening, after a 3-6 months their spouses see a change in them , more kind , more considerate, helpful around the house , more pleasant to be around, then they think "oh , mayby it brings out a better side in my spouse." yes some spouses NEVER give an inch, its usually because the CD NEVER give an inch either. Is this really what you want trench warfare in your marriage ?


DRC, thank you for your insightful and refreshing reply. I'm amazed at a certain multi-quote response above that is just full of hate and venom. A little more info: I absolutely LOVE my Wife and I would do anything for her. Maybe she did shop for a therapist with qualifying expertise. I've been invited to a few sessions and it is refreshing to speak with someone who is experienced and understands what's going on in Carla's head. My Wife was aware of my outside-of-the-box proclivities before we were married and sense of humor was one of my strong selling points. Unfortunately, like many CDs, I kept my activity mostly clandestine. I realised that the truth of the matter dictated that I must give her full disclosure to make everything complete. So I did. It's not been easy but, unlike many here, I can truthfully say that I'm 100% honest about everything I do and say. Very few people can make that claim.
On the three room man cave thing, so what. It's 90% non CD stuff and doubles as a guest suite. Wifey's private area is twice the size of mine and piled with shoes and clothes and collectables.
Neither of us keep doors locked. I don't wear her stuff even though she's offered.
I posted here for advice and support and most of the members here offer that in intelligent and informative dialogue. And I thank you all for that.
I feel sorry for the sad individuals that interject their unsavory short comings into everyone else they encounter. I've been asked to remove my signature line so I think in honor to you, DRC, I'm changing it to, "Lucy, I'm home!"

Thanks again, everyone

It's not venom or hate, some just see you post as heavy handed towards your spouse, can you not see that ?


Are you serious?? :lol: you are a funny person...

Let's look at this from her point of view. She doesn't want anything to do with it, that is her RIGHT, she doesn't have to like it, she doesn't have to see it, she married a man. But here you are gloating at how many clothes you have, full of bras and panties etc etc.. shoving it right in her face... no wonder she's pissed off. And then the 'don't hate me cus I'm pretty' comment... seriously, get over yourself, your a crossdressing man... there is NO competition and if you think that is harsh, well grow a damn pair :Angry3:

Tamara;

With trying to stay out from under the "Hammer-a of Tamara" :D you cannot discount " Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. " . I belong to a group who meet and discuss gender issues in the local TG community, and have heard that 'fear' or 'concern' voiced by GG's. It was surprising, but some women do have legitimate concerns about how their spouses look. Some of these gals here are quite convincing once the makeup hair and clothes are on., that may or may not be rational, but the certainly cannot be ignored or belittled if they are voiced.

I agree with you that in the basic physical sense we are "men in a dress", but some women do have a concern that their husband will progress from being CD to TG to TS, and it all begins with a little self doubt.
The OP needs to step back and think about what she can give back to her relationship with her spouse and start realizing that relationships are NOT about one persons feelings on a subject.

In my relationship I constantly have to think about my actions, to make sure that where I'm heading is generaly in the same direction that my SO is going. That take's communication and compromise by both of us.
That does not mean we can't have fun at times. We did a photoshoot this weekend and she tease me about being "An Amazon" because of my height in high heels. People like me never worry about how others percive me, however I need to be concerned about my SO and how what I do affects her, so I listen and respect her position on a lot of things. ( including who takes out the trash).

Why just this morning Jeannie went to work wearing the blouse I had planned on wearing today. Did I get upset? ............. well of course I did !!!!!!!!!!

Kelly

PS. that last sentence was made up LOL !

[ReineD]

Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!

Your wife said this? That she is afraid you will be female competition. For what, the attention of other men? I ask because as a female, the only time I have ever felt that another female was competition was when we were both vying for the same man. Which only happened twice in my lifetime: once while I was in high school, and the other a few years ago when my SO developed a relationship with another GG that he wanted to befriend to do things with while dressed. But for the most part (except for having affairs), boys and girls find each other and pretty much stay out of other couples' back yards. :) I have many girlfriends and female acquaintances who are in relationships just as I am, and I do not feel threatened by them because I don't worry that they will come after my SO. This is because I know that my SO is faithful to me (we've resolved the issue about that other GG).

Just food for thought.

Back to your wife, and looking again at your comment, do you think that you are prettier and more feminine than her? If so you may want to rethink this. No woman wants her partner to have these attitudes, they are rather arrogant.

As to the DADT arrangement, you might want to have a session or two with the gender therapist and your wife. You and she need to get down to the basics, the real reasons that your wife objects to this. Do she have religious objections? Is she turned off the idea of having a feminine husband? Is she afraid that if she gives an inch, you will want to transition or develop an attraction to men? Does she feel backed up against the wall seeing how far you've gone (drawers and racks full of clothes and lines full of shoes) and does she feel as if she has no say in the gender dynamics of your relationship? Is she full of misconceptions about the CDing? Is there any point at all where she might be willing to compromise? (Maybe having all the stuff in your home unhidden is her compromise?) And last, is there a sexual component to the CDing, and would your wife prefer that your sexual focus be on her?

These are the questions that need asking. At any rate, you will not be able to change your situation until you know what your wife objects to exactly, and no, it's not a fear that you will be prettier than her. :p

I wish you both all the best as you meander through this. But, if after you've spent time figuring it all out, your wife still wants no part of your cross-gender expression, you will have two choices. Either accept her terms and continue to express yourself freely without her, or move on from your relationship if you cannot. Sorry to be so black and white, but if you are completely on one side of the argument and she is completely on the other, it is rather difficult to make compromises. And she has already made a compromise, which is that you need not hide your stuff.

[Asche]

...looking again at your comment, do you think that you are prettier and more feminine than her?
This is how I took the comment, especially due to the tag line ("don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty.") I've seen posts here where CDers say in so many words that they are better at being a woman than their wife/SO. I think the OP's wife is picking up the feeling that the OP sees this as a competition to prove who is the "better woman."


No woman wants her partner to have these attitudes, they are rather arrogant.
They are more than arrogant. To me, at least, they come across as him building up his ego by putting her down (something a lot of guys do -- my father did), and it's really hurtful, even if she doesn't care whether she's pretty or not. We don't need to see photos, since it isn't about who is "objectively" prettier (whatever that means.) It's about basic R-E-S-P-E-C-T, without which all the protestations of "love" are so much empty BS.

[CarlaWestin]

I've come to the conclusion that a majority of the responses here are way off and that's just from lack of information. My wife and I have a very loving communicating relationship. The other woman concept was a suggestion from the terapist that my wife may feel a natural competition from another woman in the house which I totally understand and respect. BTW, the professional was married to a CD attorney for many years until his death so I feel comfortable with her experience in said matter. In the future I'll refrain from any descrptive comments that may be misconscrewed by others linear conclusions. I do than all of you for your thoughtful and insightful commentary. And as far as not wanting to see pictures, I totally understand.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Well Carla you have pretty much got the honest replies that you deserve. Nothing I need to add in an assessment of your 'up you' attitude to your wife.

I have a DADT arrangement now. Hasn't long been that way but it is a CONSIDERABLE advance on where my wife and I were 12 months ago. Yes I have a modest number of clothes in a smallish wardrobe in the 4th bedroom. She knows that they are there but I have them organised so they are not obvious. I'm out dressed 3 to 4 times a week yet I have plenty of clothes in just one wardrobe to keep me amused.

I never dress at home apart from occasionally keeping panties on when I've been out. I change in a storage garage - hot or cold, flies, poor lighting. Yet I am ecstatic about my circumstances. No longer do I feel dishonest. Hopefully wy wife will increasingly come to accept more and more but that is just further up side.

So why do I 'tolerate' this situation? Why don't I put my foot down and say 'to hell with you, I'll do my own thing and you like it or lump it'?

Simple, I really love my wife and she loves me. I now know that she loves me totally. My third marriage and she is a keeper. I understand what a CD husband means to a wife and how hard it is for them. I learned the lesson from my like-it-or-lump-it attitude with my second wife.

Carla, DADT really can work and give you the space and satisfaction that you need. Just don't keep pushing selfishly to a lonely conclusion that we can all see down the track for you.

[Valerie Louise]

I do not have standing here to really comment, but after reading all this ... whew.
The OP said his wife has offered to let him wear her stuff ... I doubt she'd be doing that if she were harboring really bad feelings about his admittedly large collection. Seems to me that these folks are OK with one another, and just moving through this tough experience we all share. He's simply telling us he wants to make more progress, and asked for some advice as to how to do that.
I sure cannot help, but I really do not see the OP's words in the same light that the consensus has here, which is beyond harsh.
Perhaps I have a reading comprehension problem ... but people come here for guidance delivered respectfully. Missed the mark in this thread in my opinion. The "pretty" comment ... sheesh, I thought it was funny, which I think was the intent.
I guess this is the problem with forums ... hard to tell if a person is saying something tongue in cheek or not.

Carla - I admire the fact that you had the courage to tell her, and that you support the counseling so far. I'm a coward, and have not made that step. I wish I could offer the advice you seek, and I hope this works out well for you both. I will say this ... I would really be grateful to her if I were at the place you are at. It is quite an accommodation already. I cannot imagine being at that point, so you should be proud of her, which I can sense you are, and maybe feel like going this far, is good enough.

Oh, I expect I'm going to get it now.

[Kelly DeWinter]

The reality of asking a question or making a statement on a open forum, is that you do get a lot of opinions, On a forum like this it's likely that other have been in a similar situation. So when you get a lot of people giving you a similar response, it might be worth it to pause and say to one's self "Hmmm, is it possible that i'm missing something" or like the OP has done and discards most of the responses. It's always amusing when someone does not get the validation or verification they seek.

Carla, try not to take what is said too hard. We all post something at some point that does not get answered in the manner we expect. Keep posting and let us know how things go. I believe we all want you to succeed and with patience you will Just be like Gumby and be flexible.

[ReineD]

The other woman concept was a suggestion from the terapist that my wife may feel a natural competition from another woman in the house which I totally understand and respect. BTW, the professional was married to a CD attorney for many years until his death

If the therapist's husband was a crossdresser, then she should know better than to believe that GGs feel the need to compete with their husbands as the other woman in the house. I asked you earlier, compete for what, another man? This is the type of competition there is between women. So if you and your wife are not after the same man (I say this tongue in cheek), then there is no issue.

That said, there is a competition of sorts, but it isn't about who is prettiest, or who is the most feminine, or who is better at being a woman, or even who should have the woman's role in your relationship. Your wife knows beyond a shadow of doubt that she is the woman. The competition is rather for your time and attention.

Many years ago, I felt as if my SO preferred the grooming, the shopping, the crossdressing, the going out dressed, the making friends with others while dressed, the photo shoots, the TG conventions, the makeovers, the hair cuts, the mani-pedis, in short all the activities surrounding the CDing way, way more than he wanted to spend time with me. I never saw her so glowing as when s/he was engaged in all those activities! My SO's CDing was expanding big time and I felt left out in a major way, as if he was somehow having an affair with his femme self. I got to the point where I felt as if it made no difference to him/her whether I was there or not. This was the lowest point in our relationship and frankly, I didn't think that our relationship would survive.

I just wanted to be a priority in my SO's life again. So your wife may in fact feel as if she is competing with your femme self for your attention to her as a man. If this makes sense. But believe me it has absolutely nothing to do with her thinking that you are prettier than her and feeling threatened as the result.

[Sandra]

The "pretty" comment ... sheesh, I thought it was funny, which I think was the intent.


Try doing a search and see how many post that say , they are or think they are prettier than their SO. The comment IMHO was not meant to be funny!

[Michelle (Oz)]

So, I'm out but it's still nothing she wants to see. I don't hide anything any more. Drawers of bras and panties, lines of pairs of high heels and racks of dresses fill my side of the house (think 3 room man-cave) but, she just doesn't want to see it at all. Even under dressing seems to be an issue. I've eliminated every other possible life issue but CD'ing is my passion in life. I'm starting to get tired of still dressing in the shadows and I need some advice on how to get past the DADT wall. I just want to be the all-gender person that I've always been.



I sure cannot help, but I really do not see the OP's words in the same light that the consensus has here, which is beyond harsh.
Perhaps I have a reading comprehension problem ... but people come here for guidance delivered respectfully. Missed the mark in this thread in my opinion. Oh, I expect I'm going to get it now.

Rikki, do you live within the constraints of a DADT relationship? I absolutely do. It has some major benefits and some major downside but it works for my wife and me. So when I see a CDer wanting to push the boundaries I see significant problems ahead. Carla asked for advice and that is what she got.

But let's do a comprehension test. Do you see the part "... but its still nothing she wants to see. I don't hide anything any more. ... think 3 room man cave". I wonder what that means? Carla doesn't want DADT anymore and her wife does. But her wife has no choice - it is right in her face and she clearly doesn't like it. Otherwise, why would Carla have posted the OP?

[CarlaWestin]

Are you serious?? :lol: you are a funny person...

"Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!" Gee, thank you for recognizing humor. Can you imagine some lonely old fart with a dress and a beard in NYC screaming that statement at the morning commuters at the train station?



Let's look at this from her point of view. She doesn't want anything to do with it, that is her RIGHT, she doesn't have to like it, she doesn't have to see it, she married a man. But here you are gloating at how many clothes you have, full of bras and panties etc etc.. shoving it right in her face... no wonder she's pissed off. And then the 'don't hate me cus I'm pretty' comment... seriously, get over yourself, your a crossdressing man... there is NO competition and if you think that is harsh, well grow a damn pair :Angry3:

Your's and other member's embellishments certainly exhibit tones that might just be indicative of your own subconscious turmoil. My wife's acceptance is 95% acknowledgement that CDing is just another facade of my personality. It goes along with the loving, caring dedication. I am always there for her and, unlike many of you, never off in pink fog or alcohol la-la land. And I don't know where you came up with the pissed off comment.

[Michelle (Oz)]

I don't hide anything any more. Drawers of bras and panties, lines of pairs of high heels and racks of dresses fill my side of the house (think 3 room man-cave) but, she just doesn't want to see it at all.


... never off in pink fog.

Many threads on the definition of "pink fog". But this is an interesting take on what pink fog is not.

I went back to relook at your OP. My mistake, you didn't ask any questions or seek advice.

[Kelly DeWinter]

"Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!" Gee, thank you for recognizing humor. Can you imagine some lonely old fart with a dress and a beard in NYC screaming that statement at the morning commuters at the train station?

No, but what about an old fart and a beard in a wedding dress ?

Your's and other member's embellishments certainly exhibit tones that might just be indicative of your own subconscious turmoil. My wife's acceptance is 95% acknowledgement that CDing is just another facade of my personality. It goes along with the loving, caring dedication. I am always there for her and, unlike many of you, never off in pink fog or alcohol la-la land. And I don't know where you came up with the pissed off comment.

Carla; people just want you to step back a moment and see that you ARE in a pink fog, when you cannot see what others see , THATS when you are in the soup. What others are saying is not embellishments, but the sound of a Fog Horn leading you to a Safe Harbor.



Many threads on the definition of "pink fog". But this is an interesting take on what pink fog is not.

I went back to relook at your OP. My mistake, you didn't ask any questions or seek advice.

Michelle Reread the OP, She DID ask for advice.

[Sandra]

Your's and other member's embellishments certainly exhibit tones that might just be indicative of your own subconscious turmoil.

Well I guess that I come under the other member's. Let me tell you something I have no subconscious turmoil, why should I, I am happily married to a post op TS who treats me with respect. What I posted was in reply to your thread simple as that, what is your problem don't you like it when others don't agree with you, or don't respond with the "awww feel sorry for you, or hey you go girl"

[Tamara Croft]

Your's and other member's embellishments certainly exhibit tones that might just be indicative of your own subconscious turmoil. My wife's acceptance is 95% acknowledgement that CDing is just another facade of my personality. It goes along with the loving, caring dedication. I am always there for her and, unlike many of you, never off in pink fog or alcohol la-la land. And I don't know where you came up with the pissed off comment.Uhm FYI I'm not a CD I'm a woman so no pink fog or lala land..... I digress at the alcohol. .. you however are full of it. Don't say you do this that and the other for your wife when you clearly do not!!!!!!

Pissed off comment came from you pissing me off.... not rocket science is it :rolleyes:

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Wow, this has been an interesting thread. Well, Carla... I hope you can go back and reread some of the helpful comments here (especially those given by ReineD), because there is a lot of common sense and food for thought in their responses to you. When I read and re-read your original post I have to say it sounded pretty arrogant and uncaring to me. Its true that in all forms of just writing/text/blogging there is no "human" element dispensed beyond the occasional emoticon for clarification of something "funny". That last line had me thinking you were rather full of yourself. Reading your explanation later I got what you were trying to say.
If you are going to be the person you want to be AND have a healthy relationship with your other half... then find that halfway point to meet. Keep her at the center of your world where she wants to be. Let her know how much you really DO care for her and the rest should (should) fall into place (unless theres more to the story than you are telling).

My two cents

Bethany

[Michelle (Oz)]

Michelle Reread the OP, She DID ask for advice.
My bad one Kelly. I must have been in a fog.

[CarlaWestin]

So, after revisiting my Original Post I have to conclude that the wording, if taken out of context, does come off as somewhat arrogant. Well, I get the arrogant comment quite often. I've accomplished a lot in my life, survived the unthinkable, delivered on seemingly impossible challenges and made a positive difference in many people's lives who weren't even aware of my existence. This is not the place to go into detail. I really enjoyed reading all of the comments. My goodness! There certainly are a lot of fins in the water but I've gleaned a lot of positive and helpful information. The positive effect is a reminder to always, always be considerate of my wife. So, the answer to my question is, DADTDEBKAKIIPP. Don't ask, don't tell, don't embarrass, be kind and keep it in proper perspective. Gosh, when I read about some of the other activities that some of you do, photo shoots, full body suits, 4 day conventions, and then you mention how does one keep this hidden from young children still at home, it's mind boggling. The next time I OP, I'll turn the volume down a little and as far as the grow a pair comment goes, respectfully, you have no idea what I've been through.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Carla;

Asking for advice in a forum means you WILL get some that you like and a lot you may not like. It's a lot like an intervention, you may not agree at first, but once you think about it , you find that there's merit and the ones who are hardest on you actually care the most.

Sometimes it takes tearing the old self down that worked for a past situation to rebuild a better self for your current situation. Everyone's situation is different so yes, you will read about questions about where others want to take their lives and like you they get both positive and negative advice.

Is there anything in the posts that you can take to improve your situation ?

[CarlaWestin]

Is there anything in the posts that you can take to improve your situation ?

Sure. I know. I'm arrogant. It's a protection mechanism. I need to refine when to turn it off. The comments here have really helped to bring that issue to the forefront although, many were just way off base and venomous. I've also been given a good dose of the tone of this forum. I'm slowly learning which rocks not to step on in this stream. So now let's hear it. "Oh, that Carla still doesn't get it!" Actually I do.

See--->:)

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Carla, I too am in a DA/DT It works for me I know my boundaries and stay within them.
Every thing in dresser drawers and hanging in three different closets.

[ReineD]

Sure. I know. I'm arrogant. It's a protection mechanism.

I'm the one who brought up arrogance based on how I took your "pretty" comment, but this was only a very small part of everything else that I said. More importantly, I hope that you took away the idea that your wife has deep reasons for her queasiness about the CDing (for lack of a better way to put it), and I listed several questions that you and she might want to explore. Also, I shared with you a very common experience among GGs when their husbands move forward too soon and too fast with the CDing. They feel left out big time, like I did. If there is any competition, it is between your femme self and your wife for YOUR attention as a man, even though realistically your wife knows that when you dress you are still you.

You've given us very little about where exactly your wife is at with all of this so I don't know if what I've written above applies or not. Please do consider it though. I got the feeling from your first post that you would enjoy it if your wife somehow participated more.

Last, you might consider inviting your wife to join this forum. We do have a private support subforum for the wives/girlfriends. Your wife can get the details from the Index page by clicking on the **Announcements** link next to the FAB (Female At Birth) section.

[Asche]

I'm slowly learning which rocks not to step on in this stream. So now let's hear it. "Oh, that Carla still doesn't get it!" Actually I do.
Actually, you don't.

You're still thinking in terms of "which rocks not to step on" -- that is, how to get us to see things your way -- when in fact you are on the wrong side of the mountain range. Every response to you has been trying to tell you that, and your response in every case is to explain to us why we are wrong, with a healthy dose of gaslighting on the side.

It's not our "subconscious turmoil" that makes us assume that you deal with your wife the same way. It's your own behavior, here in this thread.

At this point, I don't expect you to "get it." You're too committed to "proving" that you are in the right to hear us -- or your wife.

+ + +

More generally, any post that asks "how do I get my wife/SO to...." is fundamentally going at things @@@-backwards. It's the wrong question. The right question to ask is:


How do I go about truly understanding where my wife/SO is coming from, so we can begin to work something out?

But if you put it this way, the question practically answers itself:
- stop talking, put aside everything you think or believe or want and listen
- accept that everything your wife/SO says is true, at least for her. And that is the important thing.
- don't answer her, and for God's (or, if you prefer, FSM's) sake, don't argue.
- repeat as long as necessary until you are Enlightened.

If necessary, get a pro in to help you hear her.

Remember: a marriage is not a football game. Every time you win, you lose.

[TheMissus]

This thread just makes me ponder the other side - the GG side. Is the OP's wife seriously living with THREE ROOMS of CD clothing, visiting a gender therapist to deal with her HUSBAND'S issues, while living with a DADT arrangement that is being completely ignored by said husband?!

Ladies, we need to grow some balls. This stuff just isn't right!

[Stephanie47]

I'm not offering advice. I'm in a DADT marriage. I do not participate in the enumerated events the OP has observed on the forum. In my DADT I keep my wardrobe in Xerox boxes kept in plain sight in a storage room. I do not keep anything out. I have forgotten to put a garment or two away that she has found and carefully put out of view of visiting family or friends.

We have gotten past the self loathing and self doubting on my side of the equation. She has come to realize that I am still the person she married, although, I do have this 'quirk.'

I do not seek to take my interest in wearing women's clothing to a higher level. I do not seek to hang my dresses on my side of the closet, nor line my shoes up under the foot of the bed, nor store my bras and panties and hosiery in my dresser.

What I haven't been able to grasp in the thread is what level of cross dressing you want to elevate it to. You seem to be more advanced than the classic DADT marriage.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Sure. I know. I'm arrogant. It's a protection mechanism. I need to refine when to turn it off. The comments here have really helped to bring that issue to the forefront although, many were just way off base and venomous. I've also been given a good dose of the tone of this forum. I'm slowly learning which rocks not to step on in this stream. So now let's hear it. "Oh, that Carla still doesn't get it!" Actually I do.

See--->:)

Yes, and there isn't a single one of here and elsewhere that hasn't had to learn a thing or two about ourselves as we go through this life. We are ALL a work in progress right up to that last breath ;) All we can do is maybe HELP each other along this road as best we can... even if we think someone is "arrogant"... in the end we get to have even more friends that can possibly pay forward whatever helpful advice we can give.

*hugs*
Bethany

[Beverley Sims]

It seems ingrained in your wife and if the gender therapist can't shift her view you will have to work out a way of at least meeting the problem in the middle somewhere.

[Jenniferathome]

Oh, BTW, one of the fears is that I would be female competition. Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty!

Don't kid yourself. No cross dresser is female competition to a natural woman.

[Amanda22]

Don't kid yourself. No cross dresser is female competition to a natural woman.

That's the truth! BTW, Jennifer, you look so awesome in your avatar. Fantastic. Obviously, you're where you should be.

[LasVegasXD]

Wow, "grow a damn pair." That was allowed to stand? Where are the mods/admin on that one? I'll call it right now as a man who enjoys women's clothing, that is sexist as hell and very offensive. Let us break that down. A WOMAN told a man to butch up and be more macho (I guess by her definition of gender normative behavior). And she did this in a vulgar way by insinuating that the crossdresser was either a TG or a eunuch and needed more male anatomical parts. Ridiculously offensive and sexist. This site has rules, why don't we start enforcing them? Or is the damn goal here to shame crossdressers out of their skirts and into the bad places in their minds? Was this... "lady" aware that crossdressers and homosexuals tend to have a higher suicide rate due to all the mental and emotional issues they face on top of rejection and hatred from the world at large? Comments like that disgust me. Shame on all of you that let that garbage stand. If the goal was to put her down to earth, well that mark was spectacularly missed. If the goal was to be a gloating female supremacist putting someone down, brava ladies brava. You all did bang up jobs ganging up and roughing up some poor girl. Hope you sleep well knowing that.

Incidentally I checked most of my ad hominem attacks and swearing. Maybe some of you advice givers could do the same, hum?

[Kelly DeWinter]

LasVegasXD

Don't go near the water with :

" Wow, "grow a damn pair." That was allowed to stand? Where are the mods/admin on that one? "

this is about the time one starts hearing the sound track from Jaws "Da dum ... Daaaaa Dum Daaaaaaa Dum ................." and soon there will be blood in the water .

[Tina_gm]

Actually I am thinking that that was aimed at other GG's for the idea of allowing 3 personal rooms, clothing or otherwise. That is quite selfish in nature.... Bad choice of wording though.....

[Sara Jessica]

LasVegasXD

Don't go near the water with :

" Wow, "grow a damn pair." That was allowed to stand? Where are the mods/admin on that one? "

this is about the time one starts hearing the sound track from Jaws "Da dum ... Daaaaa Dum Daaaaaaa Dum ................." and soon there will be blood in the water .

Not only did I get out of the water, I left the beach. I don't want to be anywhere nearby for this one!!! ;)

[Kelly DeWinter]

Kelly shaking her head sadly as she watches Jenny throw chum in the water.


PS. Jenny, you may want to stop poking the moderators.

[Tamara Croft]

Wow, "grow a damn pair." That was allowed to stand? Where are the mods/admin on that one?Oh please shut up, I said it and I stand by it... and I AM AN ADMIN... capiche? It's a phrase, get a damn grip already.... drama queen :rolleyes:

Poke away and see how far it gets you!

And this thread is done!