Presenting in Public

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

I am new here and only recently came out to my wife of 24 years. She has been very supportive with my discovery of Isha at home but her one question was . . . "Are you planning to take Isha outside the home?" At first I was a bit put off (perhaps she was not as open minded as I thought) but then I realized . . . That is a fair question. I even had that same question myself.

There are a few things to consider in my case:

Point one . . . the job I perform in the military will not allow me to draw attention to myself publically in any guise (i.e., I cannot even as a male have a Facebook page or post pictures of myself to the internet). This is for the safety of myself and my family. However, as I begin my transition from the military to civilian life (due to retire in three years) this will no longer become relevant and it is possible that Isha may want to venture out of doors.

Point 2 . . . Presenting. I have read so many beautiful posts about you brave individuals who present yourself publically and I applaud your courage. However, my current physical appearance is not conducive to passing even remotely. While I am not a tall man (5 foot 6), my job has left me with a very strong upper body in addition to various forms of alpha male body art. Not to mention I have a face that would need to be shaved three times a day and one that no amount of make-up would make pretty (in any stretch of the imagination). When I am en femme, think female body builder who has taken way too many steroids.

So while I inwardly thought for a second when my wife asked me that question . . . perhaps I might like to venture out of doors someday. My first look at total en femme Isha in the mirror did not paint a pretty picture of me out shopping in a sun dress. :eek:

Point 3 . . . I love being a guy. My outside life (work, friends) is very manly. And while I would love to let Isha play with the outside world (in a way I find it a bit exciting, the same thrill I get when on deployed operations), I fear as though she may consume my male persona. Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to be a woman . . . but the feeling I get when I am en femme is one of calm, sexiness and control (I haven't had that feeling as a guy in years). So I am afraid the whole thing may be too intoxicating and Isha could end up taking over more of my male life than I am willing to let go.

Point 4 . . . I am very afraid if I do decide to present in public at some point . . . that may be a bridge too far for my wife. She did say that she doesn't see anything wrong with it but she is afraid for my safety as we don't live in a liberal community. However, I told her, that I would be more concerned for the safety of those who might try to provoke an altercation . . . nothing worse than getting your &%$$ kicked by a guy in a sun dress :heehee:

So, my questions girls:

Am I being a coward? I love being Isha and love being me and have struck a balance in the interim (while I am still in the military). However as I transition out and operational security is no longer a concern, am I just using the old excuses (I'm not pretty enough to pass, people won't accept, I'm doing it to protect me and my wife from ridicule) as an out?

Have any of you who have presented in public felt yourself loosing your male persona to your femme side?

Do you think I am just being paranoid about my wife's reaction should I decide to present in public at a future date?

What about passing from an aesthetic POV? Is that something you worry about?

How do you deal with public ridicule/altercations?

As you can see, still very confused by all these new feelings now that I have been allowed to explore Isha openly in my home.

Thanks and sorry for babbling on.

Isha

[Jaylyn]

Isha you have some important concerns there. I really am kinda like you a big guy that would have a hard time passing in public. My life profession also was the manly type and would disturb way to many folks from friends, family, to ex students, and even my wife. It's hard for me but I have just chosen to stay Jaylyn inside only and enjoy all she has to offer but only behind closed doors. I feel the calmness and peace you talk about also when dressed and love exploring that aspect of who I am. I have made a deal with myself that I will be satisfied with an inside Jaylyn and still enjoy my outside manly world I enjoy also. It seems to be working so far, but good luck in working your feelings out it is not easy sometimes dealing with ourselves.....

[linda allen]

Every situation, every person, and every marriage is different and has it's own needs and risks so nobody can tell you what to do, only offer advice. The decisions have to be yours (and your wife's because they affect her as well).

"Passing" is not an absolute. You might pass while driving your car. You might pass walking down the street, in the park, or in the mall, but not pass if you sat down in a restaurant for a meal and had to talk to the servers or sit still while nearby patrons examined you.

If you do it right, with a wig, makeup, feminine glasses or sunglasses, it should be hard for others to recognize you even if they figure out that you are a crossdresser. Also, if you take your dressing out of your neighborhood or even to another town or city, you are less likely to run into people who might know you.

I suggest not rushing into anything. Practice your presentation in the privacy of your own home and read the posts on this forum for a while. When it comes time for you to venture out in public, you will be ready and know what to do.

Let me just add that it's entirely up to you how much Isha controls your life. You are in charge of your own body.

[Lynn Marie]

Linda is very astute, her advice is always excellent. My thoughts here are about keeping your marriage on an even keel. Your wife's standing in the community is based on who you are. Her greatest fears are loss of respect in the community, and in your combined families. If you go out dressed, you will be made no matter how well done up you are. There's just no way to fool all the people all the time. Even driving your car, you're going to eventually be spotted and the rumors will start circulating. Your friends will slowly stop calling and little by little you will find yourself and your family isolated in your community. This scenario can even play out while you are still in the closet! Accidents happen. Don't jeopardize your marriage and family for the thrill of getting out dressed anywhere near where you live.

[NicoleScott]

You can go out without coming out, and many of us pull this off by being careful where we go, when we go, how we look, what we do, etc.

[Gillian Gigs]

We all have our reasons as to why many of us do not go out in public. Some of us have more to loose if we get made/caught while dressed and so that risk is never taken. Many will go on a weekend trip to another city and go out where they have a greatly reduced risk level. Everyone has to assess their own reasons and risks to determine what they are willing to do. It sounds like you are already doing this, so good luck in your journey into this thing some call the "pink fog".

[bridget thronton]

You need to do what is best for you and your wife. If going out is not making dressing an enjoyable experience don't go out,

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Thanks for your feedback so far. I am quite happy being Isha at home and my wife and I find new and fun ways to explore her persona each day. Passing is not an option for me so while I may flirt with the idea, I think in the end I will take the "stay at home POV".

I was really looking for an understanding of where the community falls. Do those who present in public think less of those who don't? Do those of us who choose to remain hidden feel a sense of guilt for not being true to ourselves? . . . Please nobody take offense here, these are just questions I am looking for answers to as I continue to explore myself the community.


You need to do what is best for you and your wife. If going out is not making dressing an enjoyable experience don't go out,

Hi Bridget,

Agree 100 percent. When my wife and I started down this road it was agreed I would never put her in a position to feel uncomfortable. In the same light, she agreed to let me know when things may have transcended to weird.


We all have our reasons as to why many of us do not go out in public. Some of us have more to loose if we get made/caught while dressed and so that risk is never taken. Many will go on a weekend trip to another city and go out where they have a greatly reduced risk level. Everyone has to assess their own reasons and risks to determine what they are willing to do. It sounds like you are already doing this, so good luck in your journey into this thing some call the "pink fog".

Hi Gillian,

I could not / cannot come out in public now as I risk the very safety of my family. This was more a what if post to help me understand. I am definitely giving this good thought and will explore all avenues before a final decision is reached in concert with my wife.

Hugs

Isha

[Barbra P]

Hi Isha

Let’s take things out of order, “Am I being a coward?” I like this definition of cowardice: Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage.

What is right, good and of help to others or yourself, by you going out? I was a Marine machine-gunner in Viet Nam and I’m quite sure that if you have survived in the military for as many years as you have served (retirement in three years) you don’t lack courage. In Henry IV, Shakespeare writes that Falstaff rationalizes “The better part of Valour, is Discretion; in the which better part, I haue saued my life”, which is usually taken to mean that caution is better than rash courage or that discretion is the best kind of courage.

Paranoia? What is paranoid about being concerned about your wife of 24 years feelings – that’s not paranoia that’s love.

In 2012 I belonged to a transgender support group and I went to a number of dinner meetings en femme. I enjoyed going to the meetings but I was always a bit apprehensive about being out dressed en femme – I don’t think I present all that well as a woman. I have also been in therapy for a little over two years and I occasionally go to a therapy session en femme, and I’m generally quite apprehensive about walking into a busy medical center en femme.

I’m not sure that going out in public doesn’t take more courage than combat. A good deal of the time a person does what is required of them in combat because they have been trained to react in a certain way, basically an involuntary reaction due to repeated intensive training. If we had the time to thoroughly think about the situation at hand, combat might be entirely different. Well, we have time to thoroughly think about going out in public en femme and for many of us the conclusion is that there is little or nothing to be gained, and very possibly a whole lot to lose.

I have not felt public ridicule, quite the contrary; I have always been treated with courtesy and respect and have been addressed as “Ma’am” on more than one occasion.

Confusion goes with the territory; approaching two and half years in therapy and I’m still confused. My Therapist (Kelly) told me during my first session that there would be questions to which there might not be any answers. Kelly told me she could not “cure” me but she could help me accept that I cross dress and that crossdressing is not something that I should feel depression or anxiety over. In time I came to the realization that my depression and anxiety were not caused by my crossdressing but by my not being able to cross dress when I felt the need.

“PASSING” Passing is a much talked about topic on here, with many different POV’s. I’m in the group that say’s very few if any crossdressers actually pass – I’m extremely PO’ed that I’m not one of the two crossdressers who are able to pass 100% of the time with 100% of the people. I was at a meeting (TG support group) last year and two women entered the room and stood just inside the door looking around. There was audible sigh as the room took in these two women, beautifully dressed, coiffed, and made up, with stunning jewelry – they looked like models. That was until they walked further into the room, approached the table of their choosing, and took their seats, I don’t think there was a single person in the room who still had any doubts that these two were in fact crossdressers – their manor and actions gave them away. You can’t pass on looks along, and learning to present as a woman requires a heck of a lot more than just dressing the part. As far as your male body and face, well the body can be covered up, makeup can go a long way in making your face look more presentable, maybe even passable. Go to any mall, take a seat and watch the women as they walk by. Don’t pay much attention to the teenagers and twenty-something’s, concentrate on the women of your own age, notice what they are wearing, and notice how many of them are not what most would consider as knockout gorgeous, stunning, beautiful, attractive, or cute; take notice of how many are rather homely, and how may have definite masculine characteristics. It’s funny but sitting there you’ll notice a lot of women walking by who are in fact homely, with masculine features, yet you know, you have no doubts whatsoever, that they are in fact female – they present as female in their actions and mannerisms.

Most of the girls on here who go out in public don’t pass but they do blend in. They have mastered some of the female mannerisms and they dress pretty much like all the other women around them. They don’t draw unwanted attention, attention leads to scrutiny, and scrutiny leads to being clocked – clocked being the term used when it dawns on someone that you are not in fact a woman but a man in women’s clothes.

This has gotten long enough, maybe too long, so I won’t address your four points. I’m always available for discussions via Email or PM’s if you have any questions for me or just want to chat.

[bridget thronton]

I do not look on on anyone - whether they dress completely or no nor whether they got out or not. I am trying to accept all and hope that others accept me.

[Lainie]

Isha,

Definitely pay attention to your wife. Be honest with her, listen to her, and adapt to her comfort level.

As time wore on, I felt a need to go out, but recognized that I will never pass (handlebar mustache). So I go out in places where I'm not likely to meet anyone I know in "real life". It's never been a problem. People smile.

So what you have to worry about is not cowardice, but selfishness. Will you sacrifice relationships that matter to you, because you took risks you should have walked away from? Or will you pay attention to what other people want, as well as your own needs?

[Leona]

I'm thinking while you're in the military doing what sounds like hard physical labor with a serious security clearance (my guess would be to not speculate :) ), so until you're out, you probably shouldn't risk going out en femme. That's just a sound move. It's the same reason my dad couldn't have any of his kids bringing drugs into the house (not that I ever did that, but I'm not sure about my brother).

When you're out of the military? Who's to say? The main thing that gets you through in public is confidence. You've got 3 years to become confident in your presentation. Then you can re-evaluate your situation. There's no need to hurry. :) You've also got three years to work with your wife on this, and again, there's no need to hurry.

[Leah Lynn]

Hi Isha,

Another "Nam vet here. Since the military still isn't accepting of the CD/TG community, please be careful for the next three years. I agree that abiding by your SO's wishes and concerns is no way cowardice. Most here will agree that there are set parameters for them made by agreement with the SO. I'm exempt; I'm a widower, but when my wife was alive, she let me know exactly where the lines were drawn. Drawn? more like carved in stone. For now, enjoy each step along the way. Don't rush towards a goal, because there really isn't one. It's a journey, with many stops along the way. Take time to enjoy. Move ahead if and when it seems right. Allow your wife to enjoy Isha, and journey with her.

As far as being presentable, there are some articles of clothing that can hide a multitude of sins. With fall coming soon, a cute, bulky turtlenck sweater with midi skirt and boots can make many things disappear. Today's makeup will hide anything, just remember "Dermablend". And if you start feeling unpassable, go to WalMart, and do a little people watching.

Hope you continue to enjoy being Isha and let her evolve at her own pace.

Hugs,
Leah

[Tracii G]

No you aren't being a coward at all.It takes guts to admit what you are and how you feel.
As far as the military do your time and don't mix femme stuff with your work.Keep your mind on your job you don't need to worry about dressing at this point.

[Andrea Renea]

My wife has many concerns about someone we know seeing me out and recognizing me.
She worries about me keeping my jobs if caught. I respect her concerns.

I have a very active male life to. Several golfing buddies. Enjoy watching sports etc. None of them know of my alter ego.

If I do go out I don't go out dressed for long periods. Usually to run an errand early morning
or late evening. (PO or the bank)

[Beverley Sims]

If you take it slowly and don't push, time takes care of itself and you will find a natural level to all the points you have mentioned.

[DarciB]

My boyfriend and I often go out in public as a couple. As long as you are tastefully dressed and conduct yourself as a lady, you really shouldn't have problems.

[Marcelle]

"I’m not sure that going out in public doesn’t take more courage than combat. A good deal of the time a person does what is required of them in combat because they have been trained to react in a certain way, basically an involuntary reaction due to repeated intensive training. If we had the time to thoroughly think about the situation at hand, combat might be entirely different. Well, we have time to thoroughly think about going out in public en femme and for many of us the conclusion is that there is little or nothing to be gained, and very possibly a whole lot to lose."

Hi Barbra,

Thanks very much for your insightful thoughts. I believe you are right . . . whenever I think about going out in public (after I leave the military) my stomach turns upside down . . . exactly the same way it did during my first combat experience. Now combat is automatic, I react and do what needs to be done.

I am hoping should I decide to present in public someday, that I will have three years to get comfortable with myself and presentation as Isha. I am sure that initial shock and awe will be there, but hopefully it will dissipate as time wears on.

Thanks for your offer to discuss via PM or e-mail. I may take you up on that kindness from time to time.

Hugs

Isha

[Marcelle]

My boyfriend and I often go out in public as a couple. As long as you are tastefully dressed and conduct yourself as a lady, you really shouldn't have problems.


If you take it slowly and don't push, time takes care of itself and you will find a natural level to all the points you have mentioned.


My wife has many concerns about someone we know seeing me out and recognizing me.
She worries about me keeping my jobs if caught. I respect her concerns.

I have a very active male life to. Several golfing buddies. Enjoy watching sports etc. None of them know of my alter ego.

If I do go out I don't go out dressed for long periods. Usually to run an errand early morning
or late evening. (PO or the bank)


I'm thinking while you're in the military doing what sounds like hard physical labor with a serious security clearance (my guess would be to not speculate :) ), so until you're out, you probably shouldn't risk going out en femme. That's just a sound move. It's the same reason my dad couldn't have any of his kids bringing drugs into the house (not that I ever did that, but I'm not sure about my brother).

When you're out of the military? Who's to say? The main thing that gets you through in public is confidence. You've got 3 years to become confident in your presentation. Then you can re-evaluate your situation. There's no need to hurry. :) You've also got three years to work with your wife on this, and again, there's no need to hurry.


Isha,

Definitely pay attention to your wife. Be honest with her, listen to her, and adapt to her comfort level.

As time wore on, I felt a need to go out, but recognized that I will never pass (handlebar mustache). So I go out in places where I'm not likely to meet anyone I know in "real life". It's never been a problem. People smile.

So what you have to worry about is not cowardice, but selfishness. Will you sacrifice relationships that matter to you, because you took risks you should have walked away from? Or will you pay attention to what other people want, as well as your own needs?

Hi all,

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate such a wonderful group. Thanks very much for your feedback, advice and support. If I do make this move forward, it will definitely be after I am out of uniform and in concert with my wife. She has been so loving and understanding that I could not bear to hurt her in any way.

Hugs

Isha

[Marcelle]

Hi Isha,

Another "Nam vet here. Since the military still isn't accepting of the CD/TG community, please be careful for the next three years. I agree that abiding by your SO's wishes and concerns is no way cowardice. Most here will agree that there are set parameters for them made by agreement with the SO. I'm exempt; I'm a widower, but when my wife was alive, she let me know exactly where the lines were drawn. Drawn? more like carved in stone. For now, enjoy each step along the way. Don't rush towards a goal, because there really isn't one. It's a journey, with many stops along the way. Take time to enjoy. Move ahead if and when it seems right. Allow your wife to enjoy Isha, and journey with her.

As far as being presentable, there are some articles of clothing that can hide a multitude of sins. With fall coming soon, a cute, bulky turtlenck sweater with midi skirt and boots can make many things disappear. Today's makeup will hide anything, just remember "Dermablend". And if you start feeling unpassable, go to WalMart, and do a little people watching.

Hope you continue to enjoy being Isha and let her evolve at her own pace.

Hugs,
Leah

Hi Leah,

Thanks very much for your feedback and advice. I am going to take these next three years to explore Isha with my wonderful wife and work on her presentation. I hold no illusions I will ever look stunning but hopefully I won't send children screaming either :).

After three years, who knows. However, right now as you and so many other kind souls on this forum have said . . . I need to work with my wife to ensure all is good and we don't rush to the finish line too quickly. Lots of time.

Hugs

Isha

[Leona]

I’m not sure that going out in public doesn’t take more courage than combat. A good deal of the time a person does what is required of them in combat because they have been trained to react in a certain way, basically an involuntary reaction due to repeated intensive training. If we had the time to thoroughly think about the situation at hand, combat might be entirely different. Well, we have time to thoroughly think about going out in public en femme and for many of us the conclusion is that there is little or nothing to be gained, and very possibly a whole lot to lose.

Maybe it's worth considering how we could train ourselves to go out in public? There's the whole "training to present as a lady" part, and then also training ourselves to deal with the inevitable bind of being read or someone just being a rude ass. Seems to me that if you can train for combat, you can train to present. I wonder what such a training program would look like?

[Marcelle]

Maybe it's worth considering how we could train ourselves to go out in public? There's the whole "training to present as a lady" part, and then also training ourselves to deal with the inevitable bind of being read or someone just being a rude ass. Seems to me that if you can train for combat, you can train to present. I wonder what such a training program would look like?

Leona,

Interesting concept. :)

Isha

[Alice Torn]

For me, going out in public dressed all alone, we as far more frightening, than anything i went through in the service! You have teammates in the service, a support system, group. Going out dressed as a woman, i terrifying at first, and often, later. Ridicule, and humiliation are very easy to attract. And, you are all alone, no fellow troops, unless you are fortunate enough, to go out in a group. Most can't. i often "call off " trips outside, by overwhelming fear, and paranoia. Call me a coward. I am six foot six, 255lbs, huge hands, and feet, unpassable voice. Courage requires counting the cost of actions, and wisdom, and seeing unnecessary trouble, too. Nothing wrong with staying in the house or apartment, and using extreme caution when going out the door. My second time out, a cop pulled me over!

[Leah Lynn]

As far as sending childen screaming - kids are the first to read us! Then snotty teenybopper girls. As far as the girls are concerned, I was staff at Recuit Training Command, NTC, Great Lakes. I developed a snarl that made recruits wet their skivvies. It works on little idiots as well.

Hugs,
Leah

[Marcelle]

As far as sending childen screaming - kids are the first to read us! Then snotty teenybopper girls. As far as the girls are concerned, I was staff at Recuit Training Command, NTC, Great Lakes. I developed a snarl that made recruits wet their skivvies. It works on little idiots as well.

Hugs,
Leah

Leah,

LOL. My wife says I have a mean military stare that would make the devil cringe. I suppose I could always try one of those but I am not sure if it would have the same effect with eye shadow and mascara :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[Leah Lynn]

In THAT case, just say, "Keep laughing you little bitch, and I'll hit you with my purse!"

Hugs,
Leah

[Sophie Yang]

Let me rephrase your question slightly. Why present in public with all the risks and societal/cultural scorn that goes along with it?

Is this really any different than anyone who does public performances, say a public speaker, an actor/actress, a singer, a solo musician, or the stand-up comic? I suspect that if anyone of us were asked to perform one of these task and it is not something we do on a regular basis, we would have a severe case of stage fright. Presenting has all the elements of stage fright or having a bad performance night compounded with possibility of losing ones family, friends, respect, and livelihood.

Well, one can lose there job for a bad performance at what they do. But Presenting, one can lose their job not for a bad performance on the job, but for something totally unrelated to their job. Unless of course, you Presented while performing your job and it is not Drag position.

The “Stage Fright” is a human emotion/response, not a trans-gender response. Take singing for example. Some people are driven to get completely over the stage fright. While others will continue working at it, becoming proficient at it; sometimes performing well; sometimes not performing well; Others will have a bad experience early on and never want to sing publicly again. Others will have the same bad experience, but grow from it. This must be the basis for all these crazy TV reality shows these days. Others will not want to put the necessary practice hours to go public. Others will put in the hours and still not want to do a public performance. These people enjoy singing for singings sake for themselves.

This summer I have watched numerous kids get up and do live performances. They can do it because they have been practicing and do not have the hang-ups that adults do. The consequences, even for an awful performance are non- existent. The environment in which they perform is a controlled environment. They are not going to get booed off the stage.

Some people just like the challenge. After presenting, then what? The Voice. Some girls will work very hard at obtaining a “passable” feminine voice. While others make no attempt at all. Others just keep their mouth shut and let someone else do all the talking.

In the end, why girls Present is a very personal reason driven by very personal desires.
Those of us who go out sometimes still have “Stage Fright.” For some, it is the pack of teen age girls roaming the mall. Sophie is pretty fearless, but there are two groups that give her pause. The first are the deranged, screaming homeless people. You never know what is going to come out of their mouth. The second are small children, 3 – 7 years old. Again, as Art Linkletter use to say, kids say the darndest things.

Do you think I am just being paranoid about my wife's reaction should I decide to present in public at a future date?

Just an observation, but in general, when two people are engaged in some kind of mutual goal or common set of interactions, the person with the greatest interest or desire in the interactions isn't the one in control. E.g., if you are hot-to-trot and the spouse or SO is not, the odds that you get it, goes way down. If you do get it, it is never as good as when both have a great desire to get it. Get it. The same applies here on you going out. Your wife is in the drivers seat and wears the pants on you going out, period. Often the “Pink Fog” rolls in and girls get carried away and frighten their spouse. Then neither one is happy.

I always told my two boys, just make mom happy. When mom isn't happy, no one is happy.

Isha – I obviously don't know you or your wife, but I predict the two of you will be going out and enjoying it Why? I don't know what “operational security” means, but I expect that there is a lot of planning for every contingency possible with multiple backup plans. You are not consciously thinking about going out now, but I suspect, sub-consciously your mind is toying with the idea.

After you've gone out a couple of times, you will want to share your experiences with your wife.
As others have said, you have three years for Isha to develop. It is exciting.

My wife has the same concern as your wife. In the last three years she has only told her closest girl friend. Her girl friend only said two things, “You are much more open minded than I am and that her husband would not understand!” Again with three years to grow together, your wife will become more comfortable with Isha as you become more comfortable with her, Isha, not your wife. Early on, one night out of the blue, my wife asked me if I wanted to go for a drive. I was dressed. That's an invitation she didn't have to offer twice. I usually don't remember a lot, but that is one of my cherished moments. I still remember grinning ear to ear. A Pink Fog moment. Anyway, when I am at home, my wife and I sometimes socialize with a very active trans-gender group. But as a rule, she doesn't mingle with the group unless I am there.

The trans-gender spectrum is confusing for those living it and even more so for those who are not. You say you are confused, not surprising, it is new. After three years, it is still new to me too. I hope it always stays fresh and new. However, through the confusion, you come across as both a deep and complex individual. Again, I do not know what “operational security” means, but if is what I think it is, your training, planning ability, will be paying dividends as you transition back to civilian life. There are all kinds of safe opportunities out there for you and your wife to look into that occur through out the year. Three that come to mind are something in Port Angeles, WA, early spring, (I have forgotten the name of this one.) Diva Los Vega, I want to say June time frame, and Southern Comfort, some time in the fall. I hear that they are great for couples and always have some events directly related to couples. Three years is a long time. I have never been to one, but out of the blue, my wife suggested we might want to go together sometime. I am sure it is just a matter of timing, funding, and prioritizing the trip. I was at a clothing exchange when a group came back from the Port Angeles event. Those were some very happy girls.

Am I losing my male persona? Not really. I am finding my female persona. He has made room for her. The two co-exist. When choosing my fem name, I looked at both Yin and Yang. The male side won out on that one. For me, I think of the Yin-Yang symbol, female – male in harmony and balanced. They get along quite nicely. He works, she plays. He works out, she gets a new dress. She wants something, he pays. They actually compliment each other. He can be tightly wound; she hates being tense. He sometimes calls on her to relax. I think in one of your posts, you mentioned a “tight game” or something like that and attributed part of that to Isha. That is your two personas working together.

What about passing from an aesthetic POV? Is that something you worry about?
Not really. I am very very lucky. Being Chinese, I do not have a lot of facial hair, shave once a week, and no chest hair. Sadly loosing what hair I have on top. I wear very little make up and accessaries. At 5' - 7”, 150 lbs, I am in good shape and can buy directly off the clothes and shoe racks. I must say though, when going out, I feel better Presented with a little foundation, powder, blush, and gloss. There was one time I was self-conscious about my appearance. I was starving and it was late. I got dressed, put on a little make up and walked half-way to the restaurant, before I looked down and realized that I left the girls in the apartment. Now Asian gals are not necessarily well endowed. If I was going to a new restaurant, I would not have worried about the girls missing in action. But since I frequented this restaurant often, I waked back and put the girls in their proper place. Aesthetically, I am trying to lose 10 – 15 pounds not because of a weight issue, but to reduce future problems with arthritis in the hips.

How do you deal with public ridicule/altercations?
Never had one. I am sure it will happen someday and I will have to deal with it then. I hope that 6 year old doesn't pound me to a pulp.

[Sophie Yang]

Isha,

Google the following three subjects "Warrior Princess", "Head Over Heels", and "Male Femaling". I haven't had a chance to dig into Warrior Princess, but I found the other two insightful.

Thank you for your service.

[Marcelle]

Hi Sophie,

Thanks much for such a well thought out and insightful response. You are 100 percent correct , Isha is the one who keeps me calm and centered and while it has not always been so (both on operations and everyday life) when I am calm and focused, I can feel her behind me.

I believe you are also right when you indicated, that I may be saying that I don't plan to present in public (at least for the time being), that secretly I wish to. Nothing would give me greater joy than to introduce Isha to outside world at least from time to time. My biggest concern is that my wife may not want to travel down this road and in the end it may end up hurting her and our relationship.

From all the great advice I have received from the girls here, I think I will take these three years to develop Isha with my wife, get to know her and where she falls in our relationship. I do plan to discuss this with my wife at some point but I don't think blurting it out this early "Oh can you pass me the nail polish and FYI, I think I would like to present in public someday" would be the wisest course of action right now IMHO :).

In the end I may decided not to present in public and just enjoy my femme side at home with my wife. Or I may just muster up the courage, get over my stage fright and move on with a new chapter for Isha. Who knows. When I joined the military I always said "Not sure I can do this but I'll stick it out for three years" that was 32 years ago. :)

Hugs and thanks

Isha

[Marcelle]

In THAT case, just say, "Keep laughing you little bitch, and I'll hit you with my purse!"

Hugs,
Leah

OMG . . . a purse. Now why didn't I think of that :heehee:

Hugs

Isha

[kimdl93]

Lets be clear, you have no obligation to leave your home and present yourself to the world. That choice, if its ever made, belongs to you and your wife. Now, to the final questions, should you be worried about changing your mind in the future.

No. Let the future take care of itself. No one can foretell what your point of view will be months or years from now.

When one goes out, should she aspire to pass? Again, no. Most of us will be fortunate to blend in the crowd. There are so many little things that betray masculinity. There is less potential disappointment in setting a slightly lower goal. Blending in, not being utterly conspicuous to those passing by...that's a satisfactory feeling. I feel I can stand a low level of scrutiny, nothing more.

As for your last question...no one has EVER subjected me to public ridicule and I have never once even had a dispute, let alone an altercation. I've been read, but thereafter either was ignored or treated respectfully.