What do you think?

[FurPus63]

I've got to get some feedback here on this issue, it's driving me nuts. I attend a support group here in my area. Here's the issue. There are a few people who attend presenting themselves as male but stating they are female and prefer to be addressed as so. Fine. However; these people also are stating they are "transitioning" even though they are not out at work, don't live 24/7, etc....and many of them are taking hormones!


This is driving me crazy, it even makes me angry. Now I know why I'm feeling this way. That's another topic. However; I just want to ask the people here on this forum: "How do you feel about this?"

To me, a person isn't transitioning if they're not 24/7 and in a lot of cases (although it's not necessary) they are preparing for surgery and life as a woman. That's the way I see it. We all know there are policies, procedures, protocol that is involved in this process. Most States insist you need a letter from a therapist for HRT and surgery, at least it's that way for us here in Michigan. So I have to ask, "what therapist is giving these people letters for hormones when they're not living full-time as women?" It doesn't make sense to me.

Hormones are serious and (sometimes) dangerous medications. This is serious business to me. I've even heard some people talking about how they are "trying hormones" again for the second or third time. Like they've been playing with these drugs (and they're bodies) on and off for years! This seems so ridiculous! I don't get it?

As a therapist, I'm supposed to be empathetic towards everyone, etc.. and for the most part I am. However; I am deeply disturbed when I hear this kind of talk and I wonder how others feel about it all? Interested in feedback.

Paulette

[ReineD]

Maybe it makes some people feel more comfortable if they thing they are transitioning, when they're not? I agree, it would make more sense to say they're just taking hormones to try to quell GD, rather than claim outright they are transitioning.

Are there different strengths to hormones? Can some people take them and feel better, but at the same time not have significant physical changes that would make living as a man awkward?

[stefan37]

First off at what stage are they. It is very possible they are transitioning and and are very early in their transition. So one should start hormones, be out at work, and go 24/7 immediately? I know plenty of girls transitioning that are on hormones +12 months, not yet out at work, may or may not be out with family and friends. It is a personal journey and we all do it at our own pace. Wpath states there are many different ways to treat gender dysphoria. Some may need to express their gender, others may find relief taking estrogen/ We read account after account here how members taking hormones relieves their distress, usually literally within days. Some find the comfort level they need and have no need ot move on. I have my own views and opinions of what transition and being transsexual means and I am keeping them to myself.

Some people start transition, find it may not be right for them for various reasons, stop then years later start again. I have been on hormones for 14 months and have just completed a legal name change and I am going fulltime. There are other members that are or have been on hormones for a longer period of time. Their goal is to go fulltime, but they have not yet taken that step. They live female as much as they can, yet still work as male. Those that rush their transition before they are truly ready are setting themselves up for disaster. It would be prudent to wait as long as necessary to ensure we have the comfort, the facial hair removed substantially, etc before going fulltime. Those that can take their time, have the patience to wait until they are absolutely sure they are ready have very successful transitions. There are social, employment, financial, medical issues that need to be addressed.

What works for you , what works for me in most cases will not work for others.

[Tammy V]

I believe that WPATH does indicate hormone treatment for persons suffering from GD that never intend to transition or are not sure about transition when starting out. At one point early on in therapy my therapist commented that "it doesn't have to be full time", even though I wanted to fully transition I was unsure I could pull it off. It turns out I found the strength to get over the hump and was full time about 7 months after starting HRT and will most likely have SRS at about the 2 year HRT mark. I do have a couple of friends who see an endocrinologist and have no intention or transitioning to full time and a couple more who live as women full time but do not plan on going all the way with SRS. This is allowed medically now although all doctors do not go for it. Sometimes all they need to adapt to the dysphoria are the hormones although my guess is that most that start out with those intentions will end up needing to go further as time goes along.

[DebbieL]

With my first gender therapist, I was told that I should try to get to "128" - that's 128 hours a week, pretty much the only time NOT presenting as female would be when at work. At that point, I could begin HRT. The company I was working for at the time had many female executives, and switching to femme would not have been an issue there either. The only thing that stopped me was the risk of losing all visitation rights to my children, but still having to pay 60% of my after tax income in child support and child care (her new husband was providing the child care).

There are standard guidelines and goals, but they are not legal mandates. When you have a client who has been suicidal, is taking antidepressants, and shows radical improvement as he spends more and more time presenting as female, and gets anywhere close to 128 hours/week (7 days a week is 168 hours, minus 40 hours at work). Often there is "bleed over" as more and more work appropriate female attire is worn, nails get longer and stay manicured. Closer friends are told that your are transgender, and you are in transition.

That is not the time to drop the hammer and say "no hormones until you are fully out at work". The hormones take months to take effect altering appearance, there is time to have these discussions as things develop. Often, the natural hair is also getting longer, the grooming and hygiene are being noticed, and conversations with management will be taking place. Usually, before those conversations get started, the client will know their company's diversity policy. In many cases, they will have chosen their employer years earlier BECAUSE of their diversity program.

Often, the change at work is the most dramatic because that's when so much of the legal paperwork needs to happen. There are legal name changes, stationary changes, loyalty club name changes, promotional materials name changes, credit card name changes, and so on.

For couples who are legally married, SRS and/or changing gender markers can have legal implications. In some states, a legally married spouse can lose liberty, property, health benefits, even life insurance benefits, because the status of the marriage in ambiguous. Those with deep pockets can challenge the legality of the marriage, and if the marriage is nullified, there can be tax penalties, social security penalties, loss of veterans benefits, pension benefits, and many other benefits.

A determined client can order the hormones online, and this can be more dangerous than just recommending to the endo. An over-eager client can try to push or "double up" on dosages, trying to get more results faster, and end up in thrombosis. Someone who has been put off, delayed, diverted, and denied for 30-40 years can lose patience. The therapist has to consider all of the options and all of the possible consequences. The WPATH guidelines provide a good framework, but each case has to be assessed on it's own merits, patient history, age, health, and temperament. Gender therapists are all too familiar with cases where patients have been denied or delayed, and ended up dead.

Keep in mind that even up until a year ago, it wasn't uncommon for therapists and medical practitioners to DISCOURAGE transition, to try and delay, divert, and discourage any form of transition. Doctors with strong religious backgrounds, or with privileges in hospitals owned and managed by religious institutions often pretended to offer support and counseling for those in transition, when they were actually attempting to discourage and prevent the patient from transitioning.

Many states DO have stricter guidelines for SRS, which does include living 24/7 in the target gender. These are to protect patients from doctors who might perform such surgeries on someone who is being coerced or pressured into SRS by a spouse, lover, or family member. This is much harder to "undo" (not truly possible), and even though it's possible to use HRT to return to presenting as the birth gender, the other aspects are not reversible.

This is one of the reasons why gender counseling is such an important part of the whole transition process. If your support group meets during business hours, or immediately before or after work, there isn't really enough time to make the presentation change. If they are never making the presentation changes, and are still presenting as male after several months, there may be other issues for the gender therapist to consider. For some, there the "Alice in Wonderland" experience, where everything seems to get very unreal. You are living as a girl 128, people are addressing you as "ma'am" or "miss" at restaurants, stores, and other "stranger settings" yet coworkers still refer to you as male, even when the presentation is becoming obviously feminine. I carry a purse into work, the only male clothing I wear is my dress shirt, and my hair is over my ears on the sides, with a nice wave, and down to my shoulders in back. I wear large studs in both ears. I even wear make-up such as CC cream or BB cream and a bit of shadow. Yet everybody at work is still calling me "Rex", and interacting with me as male. Yet when I go to the bathroom, especially in a different part of the building, I get the strange stares and rude remarks for using the men's restroom. At the same time, we are not supposed to use the women's room, and the nearest "unisex" is nearly 2 miles away. Those are the days when it really feels like I've lost touch with reality. I've already made arrangements to begin my NEXT engagement as Debbie, but I will still need to manage all the paperwork. I've seriously thought about just changing my nicknames from Rex to Rexy or even Rekkie (a nickname people HAVE used for me). The leap from Rex to Debbie at work seems like jumping the grand canyon.

My coworkers know, and there has only been one uncomfortable reaction. I was at dinner with some coworkers and told them I was transgender and transitioning and one of the older more conservative guys started talking about specific locations in Chicago that he know I wouldn't know about, about sports teams I didn't follow, and about other topics which he knew would exclude me. I realized what was happening. He was avoiding the issue, and didn't want anybody talking about it any more. I just let it drop. Most of my other coworkers are just waiting for the day when I start wearing a bra to work. I often wear sports bras under the dress shirt for comfort and protection.

There will always be people who are like the conservative. The "Fox News" crowd. It's part of what there is to deal with. There are legal rights and there are some rules, but I have also found that the most important thing is to be compassionate, and let them deal with what they can, and accept them the way they are.

[simalina]

Where I live (and I'm not a fan of generalizing things, but this seems to be the normal practice here) the first step of transitioning is to come out and tell. I think the other way around can result in some sticky situations, where you are forced to come out, for instance if a photo leaks or something similar. That situation would be too uncontrollable to me. However I respect that no two persons are the same and there is no one method thats going to work for all. If I didn't, I really couldn't rationalize my own being.

[LaurenB]

Perhaps they're more comfortable presenting as male which I take to mean outward appearances (i.e. clothes). Many women I know are more at home wearing mens clothes. Someone wrote on this forum some time ago that the most important part of transitioning is inside the head. In fact, at other times I've read on this forum that once transitioned, and I mean fully post-op and integrated as a female, some no longer care what they wear or how they appear. Mens clothes and presentation are just fine if they are comfortable. It's about how you feel inside, right?

[I Am Paula]

Paulette- You are certainly allowed you opinions, but you are trying to put all TS people on one very narrow shelf.
I'm not going to comment on how much, or little stealth determines whether one is TS. If a person feels they have to stay male until there boobies pop their buttons, that is entirely their choice.
I do cringe, however, when I hear people say they may 'try hormones for a while', or are on again and off again on the hormones. I now know what powerful drugs they are, and the amount of commitment one should have in making the choice to use them.
One more comment- A therapist listens to you, not judges you by your presentation.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Lots of people flirt with being transsexual as part of working out their issues, lots of people go to meetings without presenting in their correct gender for all kinds of reasons..

Lots of people take years to transition and I know for certain its not required to live full time to take hormones, and I know more than one transsexual that took hormones on and off for many years as they tried to get to their best quality of life..

I'm not a fan of people saying they are doing something when they are not (transition) but people do that all the time and sometimes its part of their personal growth to their best quality of life

[Nigella]

This is an ongoing topic in the TS forum and has recently been done, it degenerated, as it usually does.