My wife suddenly expressed anxiety about my CD'ing... "where will this go?"

[Camille15]

Last night it came out in conversation that my wife has more anxiety about my "hobby" than I had realized. I came out about it to her last May, so it's been 16 months that she's known. At first she had very few questions, and was generally very supportive. She even gave me some of her gift cards to use to buy some clothes, and allowed me to receive packages at the house. Her only request was not to see any of it, and especially not me dressed, which I respected. Despite her not wanting to see it at first, in the past few months I've been encouraged by her desire to actually see some of the things I've purchased when they arrived, like shoes and even recently a dress (just in the box... not on me).

A few weeks ago I shared with her that I took some pics of myself, too, which I hadn't shared with her before, even though I've posted some on this site (without my face in them). She was concerned, mostly around the fact that the photos could get discovered and what that would mean for our family. I assured her they are stored on an encrypted device (which is true), and discovery is near impossible. That was the end of the conversation.

This was until last night, when she shared that she been having crazy dreams that I "lost it" due to too much stress in my life and ended up going to my job cross-dressed, not realizing that I had done so. This would never happen of course, but it still shows she's concerned at some level. She also shared that she doesn't know where this will lead. First it was just a few items of clothing... then a wig... then more packages arriving at the house... and now I'm taking pics of myself? Will I want a sex change 10 years down the road? She also commented that she thinks if she were to tell any of her friends about my hobby, that all of them would tell her the same thing: "Get out (of this relationship) now". Meaning that it can only end one way - with me transitioning and her getting hurt. That last one hurt me. I don't know what her friends would really think. But her statement perhaps reflects what she is feeling at some level.

We've been seeing a marital counselor to work out some other issues, and she wants to raise her concerns about my CD'ing in our session tomorrow. So that will be another person "in the know" about my hobby. My only hope is that our counselor knows a bit about this, and I'm not the first CD'er she's met in her many years of marital counseling. I'm not at all ashamed to talk about it, but I don't want to be her guinea pig either.

I tried to be receptive and just listen to my wife's concerns. I told her they were valid, and I was surprised she hadn't raised any of this sooner. I shared (again) that I never plan to transition, and there are many happily married men who stay men, even though they continue to CD. I'm happy being a man, and personally wouldn't want to potentially give up my career, family, and friends to experience being a woman full-time. It's just not that strong of a desire for me. Not to mention that dressing like a girl now and then is a far cry from actually living as a woman.

I don't think any of this reduced her anxiety though. She knows me well, and I wonder if she sees something in me I don't see in myself. So in my own mind, it did raise questions for me as to how far I will take it though. When I first started seriously CD'ing 16 months ago I didn't think I'd ever want to leave the house. Now the idea of that appeals to me, so long as I were going somewhere I knew would be accepting and supportive (like a support group). I know that the more confident I get with my look, and the smaller and smaller my bedroom seems, I may want to get out of the house. But to me that's a far ways away from going MtF, and I really can't see myself wanting that even 10 or 20 years down the road.

Are there others who have had a similar experience with their spouse and can share their insights or experiences? I'd love to hear what you went through with your spouse, and how it turned out. You can PM me if you prefer.

Thanks,
Camille

[Beverley Sims]

Camille,
When this happens just back off a little, I find this happens from time to time and there is little explanation for it.
Time does heal all wounds especially if your wife has been very accepting.
Call it a mood swing or a hormone problem it is just how women work I think.
I have a book "All you ever wanted to know about women."
It contains 26 blank pages and is a mine of information on the problem. :)
Good luck.

[Allsteamedup]

As a GG this tells me you have problems in the bedroom. An SO will go along with a lot until it starts to impinge on her, particularly if you start paying her less attention. As many have said before she looks on you as her man. If your cding time starts to take more of your free time with her, look out!

She is telling you loud and clear that cding is progressive and she knows that. It goes far beyond your SO worrying about others finding out. It's you she is genuinely worried about.

[kimdl93]

I'd be very open to talking with your counselor about the issue. I would also take exception with the idea that your wife is 'telling you that cding is progressive and she knows it". What your wife is telling you is that she has apprehensions. Thats not a prediction of the future. Its simply and expression of feelings.

Lets look at the fear of "progression". Well, if you start at "zero", and expand into dressing, or even going out, does that necessarily mean you're at the top of a slippery slope, inevitably leading to transiiton. NO. Not even close. Most CDrs ...the vast majority find a comfortable place and stay their for the balance of their lives. They may diversify their interests, because people are allowed to change and grow.

That does not make every CDr a transsexual. Ofcourse, the stories you hear about are those rare instances where an individual does transition. But, thats why its noticed. Because its relatively rare. And between the occassional fetish dresser and the transsexual there are an infinite number of variants in between. When your wife gains a greater understanding of the universe of gender variations, her anxieties may ease.

[linda allen]

As usual, Kim gives good advice. Beverly's advice about backing off a little is good as well.

Each relationship is different so in the end, it is you who will have to decide how best to work this out with your wife.

Best of luck to you.

[Di]

You def should betalking with your counselor about the issue. And as far as you saying maybe your wife sees something you do not see......she sees you in a pink fog.:pinktornado:
She thought it was just such and such and it keeps escalating.
Slow it down......let her catch up.......just because she was showing you love and gave you gift cards ect......does not mean you have the green light.
Take a step back make her your focus.

As far as talking to her friends....if she needs GGs to talk to let her know about FAB.

[Jenniferathome]

Big difference between walking out the front door and having your penis removed. You need to address her fears head on and frequently. My wife once had a dream that I cheated on her. She was bitchy to me for three days running and I finally asked her what was up her butt. She then tells me about the dream. She knows it wasn't real but it "felt" real. Your outing and transitioning felt real to her. Talk about it. Seeing a counselor is great. You can call him/her in advance to prepare themselves should they not have experience with cross dressing.

[Melissa Rose]

Definitely slow down as difficult as that may be. Actions speak louder than words so show the ability to back off or slow down and continue to communicate about your thoughts and feelings (which you seem to be doing well already). This will show you have some awareness and control over your cross dressing desires and needs, and you are not just a helpless passenger along for the ride (i.e., it does not control you). It is fairly normal to increase and expand involvement in new "hobbies", but the level tends to taper off and sometimes plateau in the future. While it may be totally clear in your mind that your plateau is not transitioning and much less dramatic, it may not be clear to your wife. You may claim "it's only a flesh wound", but she sees something worse with even more to come. Validate and believe her fears and feelings because they are real to her. Finally, be patient. You've had a much longer time than she has to mentally and emotionally deal with your cross dressing. Change often takes time and moves much slower than we want.

[DebbieL]

Fear of the unknown is a powerful thing. You wife knows you dress, but hasn't seen you dress. She hasn't even seen pictures of you dressed.

You told her only 16 months ago, but she has no idea how long you have been this way.

Some of her concerns are legitimate. Cross-Dressing is just one of several degrees of transgender expression. If you were ONLY buying lingerie, or hose, or shoes, she could just assume it was a fetish and probably wouldn't go much further. From what you have purchased, it's clear that you want to present as female, which is quite a bit further on the spectrum.

You absolutely SHOULD talk with your counselor on this. He or she will probably also want to schedule a few 1 on 1 sessions with you, and a few with your wife. It's quite likely that the therapist will want to assess where you really stand, where you are likely to go, and will need to do this in an environment where you feel safe and comfortable sharing even your most secret desires.

He will also need to assess your wife, and see how she feels about other women, about cross-dressing in general. He might even show her some beautiful cross-dressers and ask if she would be willing to go shopping, have dinner, or see a movie with that person. This will help the therapist assess where the two of you should go from there.

I didn't tell my first wife until after we had moved in together, but before we were married. She had already fallen in love with this wild and crazy guy with a goofy grin, who made her laugh, didn't pressure her to have sex, and when they did make love, focused on her pleasure. When I told her, she didn't want to lose me, so she pretended to accept. 8 years later, we went to the counselor, who did an independent assessment of me and realized that I was a full blown transsexual who had ALREADY tried to commit suicide when puberty started having all those "horrible side effects". He talked to my wife, who had NEVER had ANY desire for women, most of her female friends were very masculine, and really wanted someone who was more masculine than I was.

He suggested either a platonic marriage where we didn't have sex, an open marriage where we each had lovers outside the marriage but stayed married and raised the kids, or a divorce. I chose the platonic marriage, she chose to take a lover, and it was only when her lover showed that he really wanted to marry her, that I finally agreed to a divorce (I made them wait a year, to make sure he could handle both her and the kids).

I was heartbroken when she moved out, and went into a bit of a funk. I had also been outed at work and there were no protections for LGBT at the time, and was being harassed off the job. She moved out, a month later, I quit my job.

After that, I found a job with a company run by women, and they knew about my being transgender. I met a woman who was bisexual and saw me as the perfect answer to the dilemma, and she started bring girl-friends home to "share". I had found a really wonderful place.

My ex-wife wasn't as happy with her situation. Her new husband was a chain smoker, had depression, got MS, stomach cancer, and throat cancer, and ended up drinking on his antidepressants regularly. He also hated sex, was very religious, and got violent, especially with the kids. I'll never forget the time she complained to me that he didn't want sex. All I could say, is "I know how you feel, and I don't know what to do".

My guess is that things will turn out better for you. You are a CD, and you don't seem to be strongly TS. On the other hand, if you only ever CD alone, it can be a very lonely place. All dressed up and no place to go, can be almost as bad as being told there is a party and you are NOT invited. Some of this may be given by your age, your history, and your background. All of this needs to be assessed by a professional who can better assess where your heart truly lies.

There is also the possibility, under your circumstances, that your therapist might encourage you to dress and for your wife to see you "en femme". It will reduce some of the unknown, and help her to become more comfortable with who you are when dressed. During the private sessions, he may ask her to observe you for any differences.

The therapist might even want to see you en femme. Often, our personalities manifest themselves differently when we are dressed than when we are drab. Seeing you in both modes will help him to assess the nature of your CD. The therapist might refer you to another therapist with more experience in this, but most therapists have been dealing with it more than you would think, and for the last 20 years it's been a standard part of the training for couples counseling, not to mention a major topic at APA and Therapist conventions and training events for the last 4 years.

I suspect you have a happy marriage ahead of you.

[TeresaCD]

Hiya Camille.
A dear friend called this the 'pendulum'.
In that even a supportive SO gets to a point along this road where they are saying 'where's this all going'
The fear is real, it is valid.
My SO had a moment a few weeks back, where I said something stupid, and she bit, hard.
And I discovered she is scared, too.
So, since then, I work hard to be the man when I'm home (to explain, I get to dress away from home, but have 3 teenage sons, so not at home so much)
I can't do much about hairlessness, but otherwise I try not to push it too hard.
She was, and is, quite supportive, but I've learned that's conditional - she needs the man she married.
And that's fair enough.
Keep showing her what she means to you, I believe it's a real key.
Hope the counsellor is supportive too..

[giuseppina]

There is this thread in the Loved Ones section about the a acceptance pendulum The OP is written by a respected GG who no longer posts:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?12890-Now-I-Like-It-Now-I-Don-t

It appears your wife needs reassurance the answers to the top three questions are all No: gayness, body modifications through surgery or hormones, and wanting to be a woman.

I agree with suggestions you see a qualified, licensed, and nonjudgemental counsellor.

[suchacutie]

Interpersonal relationships that are supposed to last a lifetime have to be among the most complicated things we attempt as humans. My femme side, Tina, revealed herself to me and my wife one Saturday morning 8 years ago. As it turned out we had a 2 hour drive ahead of us immediately after this mutual revelation so you can just imagine that Tina was the only topic of conversation. The conversation continued unabated for days thereafter as we covered every ramification of our discovery that we could think of. We had known each other for 35 years at that juncture so we were both driven to understand our very successful relationship in the context of realizing that Tina had always been lurking behind the scenes.

At the same time we reaffirmed our commitment to each other realizing that since Tina had always been there nothing had actually changed between us. We well knew we were both heterosexual and completely dedicated to our marriage. I agreed that if she needed me to be"male" at any moment then Tina would have to be put aside until the crisis or desire had passed. Within that broad context we have been able t to make a life for Tina that has been a mutual adventure of discovery. It's the sharing and mutuality of it in a context of commitment that has made this adventure free of angst.

Camille, when I read you words I could feel you wife's insecurity. The unknown is a massive source of fear and insecurity. If the two of you can't bridge that gap alone I expect that the therapist will move quickly in that direction. Your wife can be your biggest supporter but that most easily happens when she is fully vested in the adventure. It's hard to be open about something so personal as our femm sides especially when we don't have many of the answers ourselves. Asking her to help you find those answers as a full partner can be incredibly powerful and something you will thank her for every day.

Best wishes.

[Tina_gm]

My wife has many similar fears. My marriage is among the main reasons why I am a member here. To learn to navigate being transgendered and continue to be married. That is why almost all of my posts are on the subject of relationships and marriage.

I do attempt as best I can to alleviate the fears and insecurities my wife has. Progression is among her greatest, yet progression, or perhaps just our personal evolution with CDing is pretty much a given. Especially for the many of us who have lived for many years in denial and suppression, we are perhaps like a bird that has been kept all its life in a tiny cage. Unable to spread its wings, so it has never learned to fly. Once we get to be able to spread our wings and begin to learn to fly, it is a wonderful feeling. The question is, how far, or how high will we want to fly? Now that are learning to fly, how often are we going to want to fly? are we ever going to want to come back down? While the fears will manifest itself in many different ways, in the end it all boils down to one thing. Will our love for flying become greater than our love for them.

[LelaK]

Camille, you said: she shared that she been having crazy dreams that I "lost it" due to too much stress in my life and ended up going to my job cross-dressed, not realizing that I had done so.

Your wife may need to consider that the dream was saying something about herself, instead of about you, since it is said that everything in a dream is about the dreamer, not about others. Here's how one site online puts it:


Dream character
http://lucid.wikia.com/wiki/Dream_character

A dream character (often abbreviated to DC) is quite simply a character in a dream, human or otherwise, that are representations of the self. Often, dream characters take the form of people well-known to the dreamer, such as family members, friends, pets or celebrities. These characters mirror the personality of the dreamer.

Dream characters are, just like any other object in a dream, manifestations of the dreamer's personality. Their behaviour can be remarkably similar to their real life counterpart and is often drawn from the dreamer's waking life experiences. That said, they can and often do behave oddly and inappropriately, talk incoherently, or ignore the dreamer when asked questions. This may be used as a dream sign. However false they are, dream characters are a little touchy on their fabrications and upon the onset of lucidity often deny the fact that the dreamer is dreaming and that they aren't real, and are known to lash out at the prospect.

My take is that it may mean that she is concerned that she herself will be found to be presenting herself to others falsely. But then I'm no expert on dreams. Maybe someone is.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Camille, As of last May the ball has been in her court now you have to work with that.

[MysticLady]

Welcome to the Club, Sweetie. My story is in the loved ones forum. You may fall asleep reading it:heehee:.

[Camille15]

Thanks everyone for the meaningful replies. Debbie, yours was especially informative and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. I really loved the quote from gendermutt about flying, too. It really helps me to have this community I can reach out to with questions and concerns like these. So thank you all so much. Undoubtedly it would help my wife too, but she isn't at the stage yet where she's prepared to look at a forum like this (she's said so).

We did see the counselor, but used up all the time on another topic, and so the CD'ing never came up. It might in future weeks though.

Even though my wife was wearing a brand new pair of cute shoes, which she'd shown me prior online, I kept my mouth shut about them. Now knowing about her increased anxiety, I wanted to respect her concerns by backing off a bit. Oddly enough, on the way our of the counselor's office she asked me what I thought of her new shoes, and why I hadn't said anything about them. I told her why, and she replied that I didn't need to be so binary about it, and that it was OK for me to comment. Naturally I told her they were very cute. :)

So that exchange made me feel a bit better. Later that night though, my wife made a comment which showed me that a big part of her anxiety probably comes from ignorance about LGBT issues. We were watching a video on YouTube which involved a young boy. He was doing a broadway number, and dressed to the nines for it, together with some Vegasy showgirls (this was from a now well known, over-the-top bar mitzvah video). I commented to her that I thought the boy might come out as gay eventually. [I fully admit I was stereotyping here, and could be totally wrong]. My wife's response was, "Maybe he's on your blog already". By "blog" she meant this site. I explained to her that being gay (assuming he even is) isn't the same as crossdressing. She said she knew that, but as I tried to explain more, she got caught up in the comments of the YT video and stopped listening. I tried to reiterate my main point again later, and she said something to the effect that she doesn't really know much about most of this topic. I didn't want to push it, so I let it go. It was a bit frustrating, but definitely shows me that most of her anxiety is probably rooted in the unknown. I hope in time she'll feel more comfortable to explore it, at least on her own, so she can learn more about CD'ing. I can understand how hard and scary this is for her though, so I'll just be as patient as I can.

Thanks again for all of your support.

Camille

[ReineD]

... I don't think any of this reduced her anxiety though. She knows me well, and I wonder if she sees something in me I don't see in myself. So in my own mind, it did raise questions for me as to how far I will take it though. When I first started seriously CD'ing 16 months ago I didn't think I'd ever want to leave the house. Now the idea of that appeals to me, so long as I were going somewhere I knew would be accepting and supportive (like a support group). I know that the more confident I get with my look, and the smaller and smaller my bedroom seems, I may want to get out of the house. But to me that's a far ways away from going MtF, and I really can't see myself wanting that even 10 or 20 years down the road.

Are there others who have had a similar experience with their spouse and can share their insights or experiences? I'd love to hear what you went through with your spouse, and how it turned out.

I've been exactly in your wife's shoes. I was also supportive from the beginning, but then my SO became more confident and the crossdressing expanded exponentially in my eyes. Her wardrobe more than quadrupled, she set up femme profile pages in an attempt to meet others like her, she posted pics of herself online for validation, she left remarks on other people's pics that seemed to me as if she was flirting with them (she wasn't), she worked on her presentation (laser beard removal, body shaving, thinned eyebrows, pierced ears) in order to blend in the mainstream, and then she set about going everywhere dressed that he goes to as a guy. She made some GG friends online and was establishing relationships with them as a girl because she wanted to know people who did not know him as a guy ... and GGs are generally more accepting of CDers than men are.

So yeah ... I went through a rough year. And my SO had no idea how scared I was, how abandoned I felt. I didn't do a good job explaining it to him, because I didn't know how to share my fears without seeming non-supportive. Our relationship was at its lowest then and there were times when I did not think it would survive.

Your wife is afraid because she really does not understand how far this will go, not because she sees anything in you that you do not see. Her only knowledge of CDing men are Drag Queens in Gay Pride parades, who do live the lifestyle publicly, and who ARE interested in men. And so she is afraid.

Even though my SO kept telling me that he didn't want to transition, that he was not interested in men, that he was not interested romantically in the GG friends that he was making, and that he was only catching up his girl self with his guy self, I didn't believe him. And this was not because I didn't know him well enough, it was because his behavior was so far out in left field compared to any of the men that I had known in my entire life. I had not been exposed to anyone who CDed before my SO. I had no frame of reference for any of this.

So I'm here to tell you that your instincts are correct, you will likely follow my SO's path and want to perfect your presentation to the point where you will be able to go out in public without it being blatently obvious that you are a guy in a dress. And you will want to know people who accept you as Camille. And then it will plateau, as it did with my SO. Your best bet is to tell your wife your ultimate goals now, rather than deliver them to her piece meal and placing her in a position where she keeps waiting for the other shoe to drop. But, once she sees that it has stabilized and that you are not going any further than dressing up a few times per week (or per month), and that the rest of the time you are content being her husband as always, she will hopefully gain a measure of confidence that it is not, in fact, going any further. Like I have. But it will take time.

She may want to join this forum to talk to the other GGs. She may also want to read some literature about the CDing.

Good luck! :hugs:

PS. Don't go into any Pink Fogs. They're the worst, for a wife. Always be sensitive to the way that your wife feels. One of the saving graces in my relationship with my SO, was that he told me that whenever I needed him to revert to guy mode, even if he had just spent an hour getting ready to go out, that he would revert happily no questions asked. He kept telling me that I was his priority and eventually I did come to believe him again.

[Jacqueline Winona]

I've been exactly in your wife's shoes. I was also supportive from the beginning, but then my SO became more confident and the crossdressing expanded exponentially in my eyes. Her wardrobe more than quadrupled, she set up femme profile pages in an attempt to meet others like her, she posted pics of herself online for validation, she left remarks on other people's pics that seemed to me as if she was flirting with them (she wasn't), she worked on her presentation (laser beard removal, body shaving, thinned eyebrows, pierced ears) in order to blend in the mainstream, and then she set about going everywhere dressed that he goes to as a guy. She made some GG friends online and was establishing relationships with them as a girl because she wanted to know people who did not know him as a guy ... and GGs are generally more accepting of CDers than men are.

So yeah ... I went through a rough year. And my SO had no idea how scared I was, how abandoned I felt. I didn't do a good job explaining it to him, because I didn't know how to share my fears without seeming non-supportive. Our relationship was at its lowest then and there were times when I did not think it would survive.

Your wife is afraid because she really does not understand how far this will go, not because she sees anything in you that you do not see. Her only knowledge of CDing men are Drag Queens in Gay Pride parades, who do live the lifestyle publicly, and who ARE interested in men. And so she is afraid.

Even though my SO kept telling me that he didn't want to transition, that he was not interested in men, that he was not interested romantically in the GG friends that he was making, and that he was only catching up his girl self with his guy self, I didn't believe him. And this was not because I didn't know him well enough, it was because his behavior was so far out in left field compared to any of the men that I had known in my entire life. I had not been exposed to anyone who CDed before my SO. I had no frame of reference for any of this.

So I'm here to tell you that your instincts are correct, you will likely follow my SO's path and want to perfect your presentation to the point where you will be able to go out in public without it being blatently obvious that you are a guy in a dress. And you will want to know people who accept you as Camille. And then it will plateau, as it did with my SO. Your best bet is to tell your wife your ultimate goals now, rather than deliver them to her piece meal and placing her in a position where she keeps waiting for the other shoe to drop. But, once she sees that it has stabilized and that you are not going any further than dressing up a few times per week (or per month), and that the rest of the time you are content being her husband as always, she will hopefully gain a measure of confidence that it is not, in fact, going any further. Like I have. But it will take time.

She may want to join this forum to talk to the other GGs. She may also want to read some literature about the CDing.

Good luck! :hugs:

PS. Don't go into any Pink Fogs. They're the worst, for a wife. Always be sensitive to the way that your wife feels. One of the saving graces in my relationship with my SO, was that he told me that whenever I needed him to revert to guy mode, even if he had just spent an hour getting ready to go out, that he would revert happily no questions asked. He kept telling me that I was his priority and eventually I did come to believe him again.

Reine, this may sound strange, but I think your communication on your feelings was about as good as anyone could have asked for during that rough year. You had issues, "took one for the team," and didn't try to fix everything when you weren't sure how to respond. In effect, you didn't try to do too much, and things worked out very well. Yes, you could have done things differently, but I think your instincts in not pushing the issue are really commendable.
Camille, I'd recommend a similar approach here- don't try to force a conversation your wife doesn't want or know to complete. Give her time, take her out for things you know she likes, and wait for your opportunity.

[ReineD]

Well, I did try to communicate often, but in the form of tears since I didn't know what words to use. At one point my SO felt that I was being negative because I was not able to be as clear as I am now. lol. This was NOT one of our shining moments. :p

Honestly, we came very close to ending it all.

[Stevie]

We had some similarities and the best advice told to me was slow down. At least she is being supportive but at the same time she is testing you to see how far you are going to take it. Your actions speak louder than your word.

[ReineD]

Stevie,

Re your statement: "At least she is being supportive but at the same time she is testing you to see how far you are going to take it."

Of course I don't know your wife ... you know her best. :)

But as a GG, I can say that the situation where a partner who is advancing the crossdressing is difficult to a wife who has had no exposure to it at all, ever, and who has no clue where it will end. It's a source of confusion and also a difficult process of redefining what gender means, what her role in the relationship as a woman is, what the gender dynamics of their marriage is, where the husband's priorities are, etc. It would take an unilvolved person, IMO, to deliberately test her husband just to see how far it will go. If a wife is having nightmares or is losing sleep, cries, etc, it is more than just conducting a test.