Is This Forum Dangerous to Crossdressers?

[Persephone]

I sometimes worry that this forum encourages members to go beyond their comfort zone. To "come out of the closet," to tell spouses and others, and to be "out and about" are some examples.

All of these may be good things that can enhance the individual's quality of life, but they are steps that should be taken slowly and considered carefully. Each step has its hazards as well as its rewards.

Marriages have gotten better or worse as each of these steps have occurred in individual lives.

I worry about members who go out alone at night and prowl dark shopping malls and dangerous areas.

And there are many, many more considerations as well.

Along with others I enjoy celebrating each woman's accomplishments when they are posted. Such celebrations form the web of our online community.

But crossdressing is not competitive and each woman should consider her own circumstances and desires individually.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Debi]

It may not so much be competitive, rather than realisation that being honest may not be as scary as we initially think it might be and with each little step, it feels good to be true to yourself... A forum like this just drives it home that we are doing something which is completely normal and nothing to be ashamed of.

This helps me to become braver anyway.

D x

[CONSUELO]

To the contrary, my experience with the posts that I have read have always contained opinions that counseled caution and care. As to coming out to spouses and so forth, that is always a personal decision but secrecy and hiding seem to have some pretty significant problems. Not the least of which is ones mental health. As far as I can see the replies that are posted cover most sides of the argument pretty well. I am interested to see the opinions of others on this subject.

[sometimes_miss]

I sometimes worry that this forum encourages members to go beyond their comfort zone. To "come out of the closet," to tell spouses and others, and to be "out and about" are some examples.

Yes, yes it does. But it is up to each individual to decide their own fate. If they want to travel the dangerous road, that's up to them. I understand the whole concept of making crossdressing more mainstream to get the general population to accept it, but I don't think there's much we can do to increase the number of women who will be attracted to those of us who do it; either it turns you on, or it turns you off; few are 'on the fence'.

As far as telling female mates, it's often a no win situation. If you tell early in the relationship, there's a huge chance that they'll leave you. If you don't, and they find out the hard way, they leave anyway, and they have the whole 'you lied to me' revenge thing going on, like my ex, who screwed me over big at divorce time. While there are a few (very few) stories about marriages getting better after the CD comes out to his wife, that number is overwhelmed by the number that implodes after the fact (but then, I've only been reading about this online since I discovered the newgroups back in the early 90's).

What woman's accomplishments are you talking about? Or was that a reference to the crossdresser? It's difficult to tell if you refer to everyone as a woman, and/or use female pronouns for everyone, perhaps we should use the third party designation even if it makes for slightly incorrect writing to avoid confusion.


It may not so much be competitive, rather than realization that being honest may not be as scary as we initially think it might be and with each little step, it feels good to be true to yourself... A forum like this just drives it home that we are doing something which is completely normal and nothing to be ashamed of.
The problem with 'being honest' is the huge number of people for which is it not 'completely normal and nothing to be ashamed of'. Sure, as time goes on it will become that way, but I don't want to waste the rest of my life just so some crossdressers in the future get to have it easier. I'm not a martyr, I want a life too, and I don't need it to be any more difficult than it already is.

[kathly]

I understand what Persephone means, But I think is up to each member to really think about their actions since some of the members have had good experience and some had had some bad ones. for example I been the unlucky one to have had a scary experience. One nighht I was all dress up and then I got all caught up in my dressing that it cloud my judment. so I went driving around while dress and I did not know I was in a bad part of town and when I got out a dude was siting in his car and that scared the hell out of me and then he began to chase me down with his car I was so scared that I was about to call the police but luckly he gave up and took off. that made me realized that I really have to be really careful. so to all the girls always always be careful out there

[Jodie_Lynn]

I think it is exactly opposite of dangerous. We can learn from others misadventures; feel pride at others successes; we can share hopes and fears; we can realize that we are not alone.


And, it isn't like anyone (other than yourself) is forcing you to do or say anything against your will.

[Eryn]

Any time you stir the social mix you will help some and harm some. All you can hope for is that more will be helped than will be hurt.

I believe that this forum, overall, has had a positive effect on its members. Yes, it is encouraging, but there is a healthy dose of caution in the mix as well. If someone posts about contemplating or doing something dangerous it is likely that another member will chime in with cautionary advice. Many times the OP's response is "I'd never thought of that, perhaps that isn't such a good idea after all!"

Concerning encouraging people to come out to their spouses, I see their only alternative as remaining in the closet. Usually, this leads to inadvertent discovery which leads to worse outcomes than simply having "the talk." At least here CDers can get guidance about how to communicate with their spouse and perhaps achieve less distress for both CDer and spouse.

I do worry that some may see CDing as a competition. Those of us handicapped with a Y-chromosome tend to be competitive by nature and it is likely that CDing won't be any exception. I often tell people that "this isn't a race" and that one should be seeking a comfortable equilibrium on the male-female TG scale. That equilibrium might be at the far end of being TS, but for most of us it lies somewhere in the middle.

[GaleWarning]

This forum certainly helped me sort out where I am on the spectrum. Like the OP, reading the posts which have told of both happy and tragic outcomes when telling the SO, I have also wondered to what extent the other members on the forum have, unwittingly, encouraged some people to act in haste, without taking the time to weigh up the pros and cons of rushing in where angels might have feared to tread.

Yes, we should be honest with our SOs.
Yes, we must open the lines of communication and keep talking, talking, talking ...

But too many of us are enveloped by the pink fog and lose sight of the need to consider our SOs feelings more than our own.

Act in haste, repent at leisure ... sounds like advice for those contemplating getting married. But it is even more important to consider the wisdom of this advice when considering whether or not to push the CDing limits with one's SO. After all, marriages can be annulled, or simply abandoned. But once broken, they are impossible to mend.

I wish that I had been aware of this forum when I was considering leaving my wife. Sadly, it not exist at the time. Had I been able to learn from it back then, perhaps my family would still be together.

On the bright side, I think the true value of this forum lies in the opportunity it gives GGs to read and learn. And, of course, we should be paying careful attention to what the GGs say about their feelings when learning their SO is a crossdresser.

Kudos to Tamara for setting up this site, and for running it so carefully. It is an invaluable resource. I treasure it.

[kimdl93]

Really great advice, P! The power of this site is to open ones eyes to the possibilities of life. But, I also believe that unless one is very selective n reading here, there will be plenty of cautionary tales. I'm more concerned about the mental state of the reader. Some of us may be caught up in a euphoric pink fog of discovery and make impulsive choices. Others may have struggled with personal or family issues that they project on every other person's situation. And some are struggling with lifelong emotional problems and clutch at passing straws in the hope of a resolution to their unique pain. The site isn't at fault, it isn't the cause, but it may become a tool in the wrong hands.

[Marcelle]

Hi Persephone,

Great thread. I wonder about that as well and I guess we all should exercise some caution when we tell our tales of joy so as not to make it sound like others need to follow suit (I am guilty of that).

The unfortunate thing is that when we reach a milestone in our development of sense of self, we feel good and want to share (if we did not we would not be on this or any forum). This could be as simple as "I under dressed at work today and felt great" to "I finally got up and went out to dinner".

I think sharing your successes and your failures is what this forum is all about and should strive to maintain IMHO. Those who read the posts should recognize what I and others have done (come out to our SO) may not be for them. Everyone needs to weigh the consequences of their decisions, ask questions of the OP or others before taking a leap of faith. It only makes sense.

Can success stories make a person want to push the gambit? It is plausible as that person may only need a wee budge to push them in that direction. Is it right for them . . . unfortunately only they can decide and I would hope they exercise the proper caution. There are lots of girls who are out and about on this forum, I read it all the time and say "I wish that were me" However in reality I know it will most likely never be "I could not pass if my life depended on it" "My wife has expressed reticence to the idea" and "My career would effectively come to an end". I applaud those girls but they do not make me want to throw caution to the wind and give it a try.

Hugs

Isha

[jillleanne]

This is a foregone conclusion, but never hurts to hear a reminder. Conversely, what you say may also assist others in taking that step that they may not take otherwise, a step that is needed to help them satisfy an urge. Life itself does not come with a warning sign. If it did, what could it possibly say that would include all the dangers we will face in a lifetime? Anything we read/hear, particularly on the WWW should be taken as ideas, suggestions, examples, food for thought, but should never be misinterpreted as 'good advice'. Good advice comes from within and no where else usually. Ask any GPS.

[Rachel Morley]

Not sure if it's dangerous or not but I do remember a few years ago, before I ventured outside in public, I would read things on this site that made me feel like everyone else was going outside except me. So in my case, I did feel a mild pressure to push my envelope a little more than maybe I would have done if I had not been a member here, but then again that turned out to be a good thing in my case, plus add to this I had a "pushy wife" (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) as she helped me, coached me, and pushed me to go out in public with her as "two girls".

[NathalieX66]

Going transgender seems to be a threat to marriages one way or the other.
But I don't believe this site is the cause. I see this site as a mirror to reality.

[Kate Simmons]

Maybe Hon but sometimes you just have to "take the bull by the horns" and "go for the gusto". ;):battingeyelashes::)

[ReineD]

People tend to follow the path of least resistance.

If a husband is successfully hiding the CDing from a wife whom he believes will be non-accepting, and if he is not suffering by not dressing all that often, then I don't think he will tell his wife no matter what anyone says here. If his needs do increase and he does begin to feel constrained plus he is feeling increasingly guilty for lying to his wife, then again, no matter what anyone says he will eventually come to the conclusion that he can no longer live like this.

Same with going out. This is scary for a lot of people and I don't think that anyone would go out unless they were ready.

As to those who take undue risks while out, they likely would take them anyway.

[joanna4]

It hasn't been a danger for me. Please do with what you desire. I do not plan on telling my SO or family but I do wish to have time to go out en femme.

Its what I want for myself. Everyone is different.

[Maria 60]

Yes it could be dangerous but we are all adults here and in life itself we have to make chooses. On this site I find you hear both sides of the story, you hear good happy stories and you hear sad and mad stories. For myself this site has completed me and helped me vent and if used properly it can help everyone with our secret lives we lead.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Barbara, It's like I always say, "Be careful what you wish for" .

[Debglam]

I did feel a mild pressure to push my envelope a little more than maybe I would have done if I had not been a member here.

And it was one of Rachel's posts that brought me here! Heck, I wasn't even trans* until I showed up here and saw what fun I was missing!

Deb

[Alice Torn]

I know, the positive going out stories, have encouraged me to try a tiny bit more. The mistake i make, is after readin so much from people on here, i mistakenly transfer the tolerance here, to the real world!! It is a rude awakening sometimes. I have lifetime emotional illness, and paranoid, and severe shame issues. It is excruciating for me to go out, when i do, some times more than other times. I seem to have it in my mind, that everyone reads me. It takes a lot of pink fog to get me to get out.

[bimini1]

The powers of suggestion can be a powerful thing. Sometimes I think the forum looks at CD with rose colored lens. It gives me a false sense of security that the outside world is/should be okay with our cross gender behavior. You can't lose sight of reality. And you have to be careful not to let CDing turn you into someone you're not.

That being said, the powers of suggestion can be a powerful thing, and very subliminal & seductive too.

[suchacutie]

I am indebted to this forum. I discovered this site less than 48 hours after discovering Tina. I knew nothing. Literally nothing. I read post after post and learned every day.

I developed a comfort zone because of the balanced posts here. I'm clearly not the most adventurous TG here and the information I've gained here has let me decide how far I can proceed at any one time. It is very seductive to move what might be too fast, and that encouragement can be found. I also found balance. I hope others can as well.

[Chardonnay Merlot]

but they are steps that should be taken slowly and considered carefully.

The question above, and this piece of advice, to me, is one reason why even beyond this resource finding real-life, real-time support where you are is essential.

Ultimately what you do with this part of your life is in your hands. No forum, individual or group can lead you in a direction unless you want to go there, and there are risks involved and those have to be understood with a sober reality. That is the real danger, if one isn't looking at that clearly.

At the same time, there is a lot of healthy potential for people who are taking a sober look at all sides. To me the success stories are worth it just as much as the cautionary tales, which are about 50-50 in my experience in this forum.

I love this forum mainly because it is a place where I have the space to talk. I don't have nearly as much a space to express my feelings, my thoughts in regard to my cross dressing in the rest of my life...this give me as conduit to vent, talk, discuss, etc as much as want. That alone makes this place a healthy place for me.

Competition? I find the people who engage in it have other issues to iron out. Everybody is blazing their own trail...:)

[Leah Lynn]

I had come out to my wife, and had gone out with her before discovering this forum. No one's guilty of pushing me into doing anything.

I have been invited to join a group by a member here, and will be eternally grateful. I've had so much fun with that group. Love you girls!

I have offered encouragement to others to experience what I've discovered out there! But the decision is up to that person to make, not me. I cannot make a decision for anyone but myself. But I'll sure let you know what you're missing!

I recieved lots of encouragement to seek HRT from this board. Again, I can't express my gratitude enough to you ladies. Thank you. Again, I had to make the final decision.

If one is happy in the closet, not telling the SO, that's their decision. And not telling, isn't always from shame or embarassment or fear of losing her. Some want to protect their SO from the truth. My wife died believing I was never in a combat situation, or ever took a life. I believed I should protect her from knowing the monsters within.

Anything can be dangerous in the wrong hands, but I dare say, this board has done much more good for our community than harm. Only the individual in the particular circumstance can decide which advice is pertinent.

Leah

[NicoleScott]

It's good to hear coming out success stories, but the results are not always good and we need to keep hearing the other side - the bad results.

[Lorileah]

if we don't test our boundaries, we don't live life to its fullest. It is rare to here someone say "I wish I had NOT done that" but very common for people to say "I wish I had..."

In the early 1930s, flying from England to Australia was the longest flight in the world. It was considered extremely dangerous and hazardous, pushing pilots to the limits of mechanical skills and human endurance. Mary Garden and now, so many make similar trips to explore new lives for surgery in the far East Each new discovery leads to another adventure. Setting boundaries and limits makes you age rapidly, pushing them can keep you young.

Martina Navratilova said
I think the key is for women not to set any limits. last week, Diana Nyad proved it. You limit yourself. In my opinion, I would rather say "What I did wasn't the best move but I learned from it" rather than "Damn I wish I had tried that"

Is it dangerous for people here? Life is a risk every day.

[Tracii G]

No more dangerous than driving to the mall.
Be wise and don't go where you shouldn't be simple as that.
Its hard to fathom a CDer not wanting to go out in public at least once just to prove it to themselves.
Some people are too scared and say what if.....................? I say why not grow a pair and quit being a big baby. There is a whole universe of experiences out there waiting for you.
Take a chance and live a little,step out of that comfy box at least once just to say you did it.

[Jacqueline Winona]

In a way, yes, but saying that shouldn't discount all the good that this site provides for all of us. I agree with you that the success stories sometimes give the impression that anyone else who tries going out, coming out, living full time, etc. will be just as successful when that just isn't the case. The pressure to keep up with everyone else is subtle, but I sense it too. But those same stories give hope to those who want to try for more, and that really should be the goal of the site IMO. I think most people are cautious enough not to throw caution to the wind based on the success stories of others, and for those the good stories really do encourage and validate this part of our lives.

[Eryn]

I get a sense of some statements bordering on belittling those who do not push their limits. That is not right. If a person is happy with CDing in private there is no reason for them to feel bad or pressured to go beyond that. As we've pointed out, CDing is a journey of self discovery and some have discovered, like Dorothy, "there's no place like home!"

I sometimes write about my experiences when out and about. I hope that these can be helpful and encouraging to those who wish to go out themselves, but they are by no means an indication that anyone has to go out.

[ReineD]

The pressure to keep up with everyone else is subtle, but I sense it too.

To everyone,

Would this be because most of the people who do go out are blatently telling those that don't, that they should? (although maybe a few are)

Or might the person who feels pressure, have a more competitive nature that makes them FEEL as if they should go out when they read other people's adventures.

[paulaprimo]

there's no doubt in my mind that i went beyond my comfort zone by going out for the very first time, because of this forum. not that i was pushed, but was encouraged!! and that was exactly what i needed.
we all have minds and make our own decisions. i was never forced.
until i found this forum i was so far in the closet, i couldn't find the door to get out. as a very late bloomer in life i thought that i was the only one
who felt the way i did and actually thought there was something wrong with me.
i was shocked when i saw how many members were in this forum. the majority of which are wonderful, knowledgable and supportive.
reading all of threads about going out and doing things and having so much fun made me really want to get out. constantly hearing the words "baby steps" and "there's nothing to be afraid of" finally sunk in. i guess i adopted the nike slogan of "just do it". i remember standing in font of my door for 6 hours before i had the courage to open it and step out.
that was one year ago and i have no regrets and only wish i did it sooner. it is the greatest feeling in the world. i would have never gone out if it wasn't for the wonderful people here and i am so thankful for that. so thank you all for giving me the courage and for opening my eyes :)

[Kandy Barr]

Personally I owe a great deal to this forum as I don't feel so alone anymore. I don't ask questions like; " am I the only one who does this ? " or "is there something wrong with me ? ".... I've found a place here that has allowed me to share, grow and enjoy my feminine side, something that had been missing in my life for so long. I have also learned to use caution when considering going out and to think things through instead of just riding the pink fog and throwing caution to the wind. Having said that I also owe a great debt in the $$$ area also, say to the tune of 30 odd pairs of heels, a closet full of women's clothing, and a lot of very expensive makeup...... ahhhh, got to love it....... I think the good far outweighs the bad in this place and I'm thankful for it and all of those I've become friends with....

[noeleena]

Hi,

In my writings to those who maybe thinking about going on HRT & surgery , that they need to know them selfs because its not a funfare & there are a lot of issues to be concidered, more so the older ones with familys allso some will not pass, as women as normal females do thats a big subject alone ,

I know for myself what its like as an intersexed female its not easy far from it , i have advantages that most trans people dont have and not just here those iv talked with at length, face to face,

Its not a competition or a race to get to a percived finsh line ,there just is not one , or you can only pass if your all made up ,you know what i say about that,

I allso know some meddiling with meds we have a procedure that needs to be taken on board so one does not end with health issues as im very aware of , some i know ... well did , they are gone,

Is there a percived pushing going on to get you out the door, from some 20 forums im on i will say yes there is, lets face it who wonts to be left behind, its life so we need to get real ,how far some can or need to go is of cause up to each one yet......look at our lifes what we went through,

so is it worth all the hassle in my case yes or be dead, and then look at what we lose out on , what ever you do needs to be taken at how itll impact you and your family & to lesser friends and maybe work or groups,

For those who dress id have to say many of you, would never know you were not female born, even so not every one from here can just go out & again not every one ...needs ... to so dont think because you dont you are a lesser person ,

We all have our limits as in doing things i do, & i freely say that, just because im a woman does not make myself a better person , we need to be content in our selfs and happy doing those interests we have & enjoy what we do,

With out a sword hanging over our head because ..... we well you know......we are not all the same in every thing we do.

...noeleena...

[Beverley Sims]

Barbara,
I do think a lot of newcomers to the forum have a perception of a new release and freedom because of what others with more experience have described.
It took years for most of us to get where we are and those just starting out think they can jump in the boat and sail away instantly.
Call it peer group pressure but I think it is the perceived new found freedom by those coming here after being closeted all their lives.
I feel we should warn some of them to tread carefully in a similar way we caution about hormones and instant body changes.
I do say take your time, but it does fall on deaf ears sometimes.

[Milli Montanari]

The best thing I've learned from this forum is the importance of keeping the pink fog under control in a DADT relationship.

[TheMissus]

I'm just curious how many who CD for sexual reasons like my H have gone public after reading this forum. Seriously, that's very, very wrong. Involving innocent people in a fetish is disturbing (and no different to a flasher!) and as a mother this bothers me immensely. I truly hope no fetish dresser is doing this at McDonalds!

And another point - no one can be sure the people here are the profile they represent, let alone doing the things they say they're doing. It's easy to sit at a computer and live the life you WISH you were living. If anyone is seriously being persuaded by online forums they need to take a long look in the mirror and then step quickly back into the REAL world.

[Zylia]

If we don't test our boundaries, we don't live life to its fullest.
You're not wrong, but you're also not the one who's risking their marriage and/or other relationships, their job or their personal safety whenever someone else decides to leave the house, tell other people, etc. etc. It's very easy to give 'bad' advice if you have no stake in the outcome.

[jack-sparrow]

Just from reading the posts in this thread there seems to be a few people that are in marriages who worry about cding and what it would do if they told their partner about their desire to dress in a feminine way, but what the single people who have no marriage or partner to hold them back? Should they just not find out about themselves and stay complacent with 'lets just hide it'...obviously going against society's norm is never really in anybody's favour and the outcome is generally bad but at least single people can make decisions without worrying if it will hurt someone else or not

[mariehart]

I started a thread here recently where I suggested it was time I came back to crossdressing in a more organised way just like I used to. There were some negative responses in the thread. I ignored them and went shopping, picking up some shoes, leggings and a top. But then I put everything back and walked out with the comments in the back of my mind.

As far from encouraging people to come out to their SOs, if anything it's the opposite. I've been put off the idea from discouraging comments on this forum. Suggestions that she would kick me out or look for a divorce scares me even though knowing her as I do she would only do that as a very last resort. But mainly I'm put off by the idea that it would be an imposition on her and that's not fair.

I looked for a forum like this because I found that I couldn't actually give up something that's been with me since I was a child. I found I still really needed to express my female side. Now I don't know anymore. This forum has not encouraged me to go back to what I used to do.

As for doing silly thing while dressed. I was doing that long before the internet forum was invented. I took some crazy risks while single. Unfortunately it goes with the territory. If you're lucky enough to live in a town with a group or dressing facilities that's fine. I was lucky enough to live in a city which had a longstanding TV group. But if you don't you're on your own most of the time. Going out alone is always risky.

[SophieKitty]

People are all adults here they can take advice from all parties and make adult, informed decisions

[Marcelle]

If one is happy in the closet, not telling the SO, that's their decision. And not telling, isn't always from shame or embarassment or fear of losing her. Some want to protect their SO from the truth.

Leah


I get a sense of some statements bordering on belittling those who do not push their limits. That is not right. If a person is happy with CDing in private there is no reason for them to feel bad or pressured to go beyond that. As we've pointed out, CDing is a journey of self discovery and some have discovered, like Dorothy, "there's no place like home!"


I agree fully with Eryn and Leah on this point and I had submitted a thread exactly to this point sometime back ("My wife got me thinking last night").

I do find that some undertones of "shame, shame" pop up from time to time when someone admits not coming clean to their SO. It is always the same "this is bad", "you are hurting your SO". This could have the deleterious effect of forcing a member to have the talk earlier than required (leading to all sorts of issues) or retreating back into "I am a bad and deviant person" frame of thinking and potentially sinking in to a state of depression. For those of us who have come out to SOs or family . . . I would ask you remember what you felt like before you did and how that might be magnified by someone in your own community implying you are doing something wrong.

I have always held to a belief that nobody has the right to admonish someone for personal life choices. Nobody is perfect and we will make mistakes along the way, this is how one grows. Yes, by all means state your case, be supportive (i.e., have you thought about talking to your SO? How do you think she might feel if she found out later than sooner? Should you decide to tell your SO, her is some advice I can offer?) but it is a careless person who goes down the road of "shame on you" or "do you realize you are hurting the person you love" (I think they know and feel that everyday).

We (the collective community) and I find for the most part this forum does, should strive to be supportive and accepting of all members regardless of whether they closet from their SOs or go out on the town with them en femme.

We are all on a journey, some of have the ability to get their sooner than others and I applaud you for your courage and good fortune. For those who cannot or chose not, they more than any of us need support and advice to also grow on this journey . . . not guilt.

Hugs

Isha

[NicoleScott]

I agree, Isha, and I'd like to add that many of those people who want to shame you out of the closet were themselves in the closet. But seeing the error of their past thinking, and now having been-there-done-that and come out at a time of their choosing, don't want to allow others to come out at a time of their own choosing.
We are a diverse bunch, but there are some who think there is only one way to CD.

[Suzanne F]

I came out to my wife a few days before I found this forum. I am so grateful it was available. It was essential that I accept and express Suzanne. This site helped make that possible. I am one of those who decided to fully dress and go out into the world. That was my decision and it has been the right one for me. I attend a support group that I learned about here. I also meet a few ladies from here on a regular basis a few times a month. That does not mean I think less of anyone who does not do those things. I can't live 24/7 as Suzanne like other women that I read about. I don't think any less of myself because of that. It just doesn't work for me at this time in my life since I have a wife and young son. I am responsible for my choices. This forum has shown me what is possible as far as gender expression. It has also taught me the dangers that we face in different areas. I have an accepting wife but she does struggle at times and the experiences of others on here has been a big help. So no I do not believe this forum is dangerous. I think living in our own head isolated is much more dangerous to our well being!
Suzanne

[Trishpdxcd2]

To everyone,

Would this be because most of the people who do go out are blatently telling those that don't, that they should? (although maybe a few are)

Or might the person who feels pressure, have a more competitive nature that makes them FEEL as if they should go out when they read other people's adventures.

Well I don't think anyone should feel pressure to go our or come out. I think it is nice to be able to come and share with other girls in a safe place.

[kimdl93]

One added point. I find that people can read into any post things that they expect or that reinforces their beliefs. To that extent, this forum more likely does little to change or promote behaviors. If people are afraid, their fears will be confirmed. If they are looking for justification, they'll find it.

[Amanda M]

Let me say first of all that this forum is a great place to visit, partly because of the wide range of views, experiences and opinions on any conceivable facet of crossdressing. That is it´s biggest strength, and conversely, when it comes to giving advice, it´s greatest weakness.

There IS no one size fits all, and yet we sometimes try to make it seem as if there is.

Assumptions about personal circumstances, "You should", "You must" - I call this musterbation, all done with the best of intentions.

In the end, if you have a dilemma, the only one who can solve it is you, so take time, sort through the advice and look at the pros and cons of each possible course of action, preferably by writing them down so that you don´t miss something important. It is the wide experience of forum members that makes this possible.

Weigh the possibilities, choose, then go for it.

[AllyCDTV]

I think in can be dangerous especially to new members who read posts from people that spout off as dogma such things as "you must tell your spouse" or "you can never quit." These are not true for everyone and it took me a while to realize that. Fortunately I did come to the realization before I did anything that would have been beyond stupid in my case. It would be far better if people took more ownership for their posts ("In my case, I felt I had to tell my spouse" or "I have not been able to quit") and added disclaimers that it might not be the path for everyone. Yes, those of us who have been here for a while know that, but new members can be very impressionable.


And another point - no one can be sure the people here are the profile they represent, let alone doing the things they say they're doing. It's easy to sit at a computer and live the life you WISH you were living. If anyone is seriously being persuaded by online forums they need to take a long look in the mirror and then step quickly back into the REAL world.

Great point. I have felt that way too when I see posts from the Pollyanna's who seem to live in Crossdresser Fantasyland.

[Stephanie47]

I've voiced my opinion on this subject several times before. There is a lot of pressure espoused on this site to 'out' yourself to wife, girlfriend, family, friends, coworkers, employers, etc without considering the consequences of the action. I'll agree with TheMissus that we will never really know to the extent anyone engages in their cross dressing. I've been chastised by some on this site, who are transitioning from man to woman. That path is totally different than the life of a man who likes to wear women's clothing without any intent to transition to being a woman. I wish those who are transitioning would identify themselves when giving advice, so the reader may accurately understand the source of the advice or encouragement.

If the statistics are accurate concerning the percentage of men who are cross dressers, then the number of members on this forum are a smaller percentage of cross dressers in society. Hence, a problem arises. When "birds of a feather flock together" they tend to lose perspective. This is true of any group. Group behavior tends to make people do things they would not necessarily do as an individual.

For those young men on this forum, please, think twice about what you are going to do. Sometimes there is no recovery from your actions. Once the Genie is out of the bottle, she cannot fit back in. Life is full of the unintended consequences of one's actions. Whatever you are going to do in life, think about the consequences. Think about risk vs. reward. Think how your actions will affect others, not just yourself.

[kimdl93]

I don't buy this group think argument nor the notion that hiding is the safer path. Yes, of course - everyone should think twice and consider risks. One should also consider the likelihood that things might go decidely bad if you are discovered by accident. I know, it will never happen to you - and yet, if you read this forum, you'll see that it happens. That Genie can get out of the bottle all by itself. The risks and rewards and impacts on others may occur regardless of what you choose to do.

Those of us that would be characterized as Pollyana's for advising a person to come out (judiciously and in a thoughtful manner) also speak from experience. I don't beleive there is ever "Pressure" applied to anyone here. But assuming that advising someone to consider coming out is "pressure" then there are more than enough negative comments offered as counter balance.

[Julie York]

To everyone,

Would this be because most of the people who do go out are blatently telling those that don't, that they should? (although maybe a few are)

Or might the person who feels pressure, have a more competitive nature that makes them FEEL as if they should go out when they read other people's adventures.

The problem is that people seek reassurance that they are at least similar to other CDs and when they get the impression it is the norm to dress up fully 3 times a week, tell all to your wife/girlfriend and go clubbing every week complete with a dozen photos, it can make you feel depressed and isolated. NOT because everyone is having such a wonderful time but because yet again you find you "aren't normal" even in the CD community because you don't dress up fully, don't WANT to go out and don't WANT to tell anyone.

That is where the problem is. It isn't a competitive thing. It is the feeling of being isolated yet again within a subsection of a subsection of society.

[Joanne f]

Is it the forum or the success of the forum that could be dangerous to some, I think it was quoted that there has been something like 109,000 members on here involved with TG issues in one way or anther and those sorts of numbers can start to make you feel like you are more normal than you may have thought before so could that make you take a little more risk than you would have done if you had not been a member , possibly, but the thing is once you are in this game it is all risks so you just have to weigh up the safest way for you but the other problem is that if there are no risks taken then this life style will never get accepted , just make sure that you keep a happy balance and do not do anything that could be dangerous to yourself or anyone else .

[Kathi Lake]

It can be.

I know for me it set up a positive feedback loop that caused stress on my marriage. Recognizing that, I'm much better now.

Kathi

[kimdl93]

T....when they get the impression it is the norm to dress up fully 3 times a week, tell all to your wife/girlfriend and go clubbing every week complete with a dozen photos, it can make you feel depressed and isolated. NOT because everyone is having such a wonderful time but because yet again you find you "aren't normal" even in the CD community because you don't dress up fully, don't WANT to go out and don't WANT to tell anyone.....

If you look back an an earlier post to this thread, I suggested that the "problem" isn't so much with the content, as with the individual's perceptions. We have lots of members who experience CDing in their own way. That may be at home in private, it may involve the awareness of a partner, it may entail going out, it may be adoption of a middle path life - part male and part female or it may entail some steps towards transition.

We also have members who are in great emotional distress. We have some members who, at least from my point of view, exercise very poor judgement. The fact is that people who have clouded faculties and people who make rash decisions may make bad choices or carry out their choices in a terribly self destructive manner. With or without this forum, certain people will make poor decisions. If they don't find what reinforces their beliefs here, they'll find it in another medium. Given the pervasive nature of web-based porn, I would guess that most alternative CD sites would be far more damaging to people with impaired judgment.

[Dianne S]

It's dangerous because it's addictive. Being able to communicate with others who are like you and feeling you're part of a community can soak up a ton of time. :)

[julia marie]

I'm at a point now where I'm going out a couple times a week, and I'm really enjoying it. Simply, I feel that it's taking a load off my shoulders, and I thank everyone in the forum who has encouraged us to push the envelope that way.
However, going out has also raised some cautionary flags for me, including some that I didn't think of earlier. Examples (plus some positives):
If I'm going out dressed as a woman I want to look as much like a woman as possible. So, I'm working harder on makeup, walk, poise, even simple things like handling a purse/wallet. I don't fool myself into thinking I'll pass any close look, but I want to do the best job of preparation that I can.
Someone in the forum once mentioned that groups of girls in their early teens can pick out flaws in anyone's appearance faster than anyone else. I tend to avoid them in malls, stores etc. (change aisles), rather than risk being called out.
Similarly, groups of later teen and 20-ish guys in parking lots. Are they more likely to get into gay-bashing? Maybe
We all have to go the bathroom. If there's no "family" rest room, the first trip into the women's room can be traumatic. It gets easier after that. However, if I notice what appears to be a father/boyfriend/husband waiting outside the bathroom, I'll wait until they and their female companion move on. No need to push that envelope.
What seems to be the most accepting demographic that I've met up with seems to be the late teen early 20s sales clerk. They have been awesome.
Walking, getting in and out of the car, etc., particularly at night, raises new safety flags. I'm always safety conscious, but I now assume some of the precautions that women are more likely to take. Park closer to the store. Doublecheck that the car door locks when you leave it. Get keys ready while in the store lobby when returning. Look around. Look again. Check the back seat, and so on.

[Michelle789]

I think it's good to step beyond our comfort zone, that's how we grow as humans. As long as we take caution and proceed carefully we're ok. We should be careful not to go out too late at night and be careful where we choose to go, and can you find someone to go with, or start with a gender friendly hangout?

I'm at a phase where I'm trying to step outside my comfort zone as well and go out while dressed more. I don't have an SO, but I do worry about neighbors seeing me or which restroom to use in public or just how my first outing will go? I feel like it's good we encourage each other to grow and try new things, as long as I grow and try new things at a pace which is comfortable to me, rather than going to the extremes of going too far at once, or just staying stagnant.

:)

[Dani0948]

When I found this site I was encouraged to tell my wife. Before findiing the forum, it never occured to me to tell. I've come to thinking that telling is not likely to yield a better result than getting caught. I think my wife's reaction would be pretty much the same. I may eventually tell, but not any time soon. By carefully reading and thinking about what's here each of us can make an informed decision before jumping off the cliff.

[kimdl93]

Who encouraged you? Some members suggested that you might have a better outcome if you thought it through and presented your truth in a prepared manner. The alternative...sheer chance or worse. History has not favored dumb luck over preparation.

[JustAlex]

...this forum encourages members to go beyond their comfort zone.

This is all I want to talk about. We are all grownups, we are free to make choices and we're going to suffer the consequences of every single one of them, the good ones and the bad ones.

People who don't understand that, have bigger problems that crossdressing...

[Frédérique]

Is This Forum Dangerous to Crossdressers? I sometimes worry that this forum encourages members to go beyond their comfort zone. To "come out of the closet," to tell spouses and others, and to be "out and about" are some examples.

Is it dangerous? Only if you take it (or yourself) seriously… :eek:

I would never dream of telling someone what to do, because, in this imaginary setting, I can never fully understand the other person’s situation – under these circumstances any advice that I could offer would be of a highly shallow nature. Also, if the person doesn’t fully know himself or herself, why seek advice in the first place? Just observe, reflect, and think about things for a while. This place is like a bunch of mirrors - some are complimentary, while others are not. I like to champion the individual, i.e. the person who is either decisive, or not, and is responsible, not only for their own actions, but also for their own happiness…

Better to offer a hug: :bighug:, comfort the individual, and steer clear of any danger…

[Jacqueline Winona]

To everyone,

Would this be because most of the people who do go out are blatently telling those that don't, that they should? (although maybe a few are)

Or might the person who feels pressure, have a more competitive nature that makes them FEEL as if they should go out when they read other people's adventures.

Hadn't really thought of the second idea, but you're right, that is a big deal to those of us who have the competitive streak. I was really thinking of some of the posts on the front page of this forum, there are quite a few that could fairly be interpreted as pressuring.

[AmyGaleRT]

I will tell you the truth as I have experienced it.

Before I came here, I was extraordinarily timid as a CD. I was so far down in the closet that "up" was for astronomers. How could I possibly tell my fiancee about this part of me? She'd totally freak out! And, oh no, I could never, ever, ever step outside my front door wearing a dress! And if my family members ever found out, they'd probably disown me!

Flash forward to now. I've discovered that my fiancee was actually far more accepting and supportive than I'd have given her credit for. I have walked the streets and the shopping malls as Amy, unafraid...heavens, I have walked down Colfax Avenue in broad daylight in a pink lace dress, something which, if you'd told me a year ago that I was going to do that, I would have asked you exactly what you'd been smoking, and how much! And not all of my family knows...but my mother does, and she's even seen me on video as Amy, and she seems to accept my happiness in that role.

And in the process, I've acquired the skills to present in what many have called a passable fashion, and to project femininity, beauty, even sex appeal (if you go by what my fiancee has said, vetoing some of my pictures as "too provocative to post"). I've acquired unique perspectives; never again will I complain about how long it takes a woman to get ready to go out, and I finally understand some of what Imelda Marcos felt (which is a bit scary!). And I've acquired something more than that...I've acquired girlfriends (in the feminine sense of the word), sisters of the soul that I care about, some of whom I only know through online communications, some of whom I have met in real life. I may be more of a social butterfly as Amy than I ever was as my male self...

And I have come to see that, far from being somehow "bad" or "broken," I have been given a gift...the ability to see and appreciate life from the female perspective as well as from the male. Like Tiresias incarnate, I have crossed between the poles, and will continue to do so. I will probably go no farther along the line that continues towards "true" transsexual, but I don't feel I need to. I am more than "just" male, or "just" female. I am the sum of my selves, and it's up to me to use those two selves to make me a better person overall.

This is some of what this forum has given me. I do not and cannot speak for anyone else; I can only relay my own truth.

- Amy

[Marcelle]

And I have come to see that, far from being somehow "bad" or "broken," I have been given a gift...the ability to see and appreciate life from the female perspective as well as from the male . . . I am more than "just" male, or "just" female. I am the sum of my selves, and it's up to me to use those two selves to make me a better person overall.
- Amy

Nicely said Amy. You have made decisions which fit you at the time and have moved forward. As I continue to transition with this new awakening in me . . . I hope to find the same realization myself some day. But I have a long way to go with this presentation thing . . . a real long way (still freaking out our dogs is not a good sign) :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[Ceri Anne]

I think there can be a bit of truth in what you say Persephone. I've seen people jump in without testing the water first, only to land on a rock. But in most cases, the helpful tips, inspiration, understanding, guidance and sisterhood has been more than wonderful. I know personally, it has helped me understand and look ahead. I'm pretty outgoing, and get out often from day one (literally). Yet I have reveled in the experiences of others here. My personal sister idol is Kimberly Huddle, who has a similar job as mine and travels regularly pretty. The friends I have met online and in real life have become close. I still have a long way to go in my journey, but the form has helped immensely.

[Chickhe]

My view is that you need to learn from others. You have to look at yourself and evaluate what is causing stress in your life and then do something to improve. My own experience was that by bottling up all this fear and shame I was impacting other parts of my life. I always had this nagging feeling that I needed to go out, but never could build up the courage to do it, but when I did, I learned a whole lot and my fears went away. How much people know is an issue that you have to balance, but I also believe a lot has to do with your own attitude. Some people can CD and come off looking like a weirdo and others can carry it with a badge of honor. Its not really what you do or don't do, its HOW you deal with it. Nobody should do what anyone else tells them to do without first using their own grey matter to decide if it is correct or not.

[Miriam-J]

And I have come to see that, far from being somehow "bad" or "broken," I have been given a gift...the ability to see and appreciate life from the female perspective as well as from the male. Like Tiresias incarnate, I have crossed between the poles, and will continue to do so. I will probably go no farther along the line that continues towards "true" transsexual, but I don't feel I need to. I am more than "just" male, or "just" female. I am the sum of my selves, and it's up to me to use those two selves to make me a better person overall.

Amy shared an experience so much like mine, but so beautifully - especially the paragraph above. Thank you, Amy.

When I joined this forum a 19 months ago I had never ventured from the home, fearing the many terrible things that could happen outside. I did have the active support of my wonderful wife, and even this was a step forward from the decades spent hiding in the closet before she entered my life. On this forum I learned some important lessons that helped me to discover more about myself, especially:


I'm not alone! There are many others like me, including support groups and conferences where you can meet.
The police really aren't out to get you if they catch you outside, and the law isn't nearly as hostile as I expected
Even if someone notices I'm a guy underneath, it doesn't matter unless it affects family, friends, or job
I really can change my appearance, style, voice, and motions enough to go without notice in most settings
Many of those in our lives are more open to this lifestyle than I thought
There are places and on-line sources to buy nearly everything I need for this lifestyle

Armed with these new truths and a new courage, I did what I had long wanted to do even before encountering this forum: emerge from my home and interact with society, with and without my wife. I'm determined to never return to the fears of my past, so I get out often. We've shared this secret with our best friends so my wife is no longer alone with the secret either, and they've been wonderful about it.

Dangerous? Only if learning the truth is dangerous. Only if finding a path to move beyond your fears is dangerous.

Thanks to all of you for the wonderful things you've contributed to my life.

Miriam

[TGMarla]

I think there is some truth to it, that this forum tends to push girls out the door. But I think most want to be pushed to some extent. Subliminally perhaps, but they appreciate the support and the "you go, girl!" attitude that it might take to get a lady out into the world, even for a few baby steps. The "danger" lies in one's own decision making after that.

It was because of this forum that I realized there were many more just like me, experiencing the same qualms, problems, issues, questions, and thoughts that I do.

It was because of this forum that I came out to my wife. That did not go well at all, and to this day, it's something we do not discuss. However, we have a committed love to each other, and we are still together these many years later.

It was because of this forum that I first went out into the world as Marla, and it turned out each time to be a very pleasant and enjoyable experience.

It was because of this forum that I got lots better at presenting as Marla, and my wardrobe and makeup skills have grown along with me, and along with the members here.

I have always councilled that one should not allow this forum to induce one to go out or come out to the SO unless one is good and ready to do so. Ultimately, it has to be the choice of the individual.

[kimdl93]

I can't say that the forum for pushed me . But, as Marla says, the new knowledge that I gained certainly influenced my thinking. I guess that's the forbidden apple of knowledge. Once you know something is possible, then its easier to imagine yourself taking those baby steps...whether they are out of the closet, out to the SO or out into the new world.

I was joking with a member that perhaps we should include a disclaimer, like a financial prospectus, that past experiences do not guarantee future results, or words to that effect. Every consumer of this information has the obligation to make independent judgments based on their situation.

[Samantha_Smile]

I sometimes worry that this forum encourages members to go beyond their comfort zone. To "come out of the closet," to tell spouses and others, and to be "out and about" are some examples.

All of these may be good things that can enhance the individual's quality of life, but they are steps that should be taken slowly and considered carefully. Each step has its hazards as well as its rewards.

Marriages have gotten better or worse as each of these steps have occurred in individual lives.

I worry about members who go out alone at night and prowl dark shopping malls and dangerous areas.

And there are many, many more considerations as well.

Along with others I enjoy celebrating each woman's accomplishments when they are posted. Such celebrations form the web of our online community.

But crossdressing is not competitive and each woman should consider her own circumstances and desires individually.

Hugs,
Persephone.

Good post with a great point.
But at the end of it all, every person (unless with learning disabilities or mental health problems) has a full capacity of free will and the freedom to make their own choices.
It would be very easy for someone to have a bad real world experience and then blame it on encouragement from a forum.
But the truth is, the forum wasnt holding a gun to the persons head, wasnt pushing a 'do it or youre banned' policy, so is hardly responsible for the actions of an individual.

The rest of the truth is, if a person does something following encouragement from a forum, then they were probably gonna do it anyway.

[Kati]

While the forum Encourages and Supports crossdressers, i don't think it would push anyone to do what they don't want to do. While i enjoy underdressing, I don't think that I would feel comfortable (other than on Halloween) to go fully dressed as a 6' 350 pound man with a shaved head and Goatee. I may come to that point at some time, and if i do i know the people here will be very supportive.

[vanitysumers]

yes it is dangerous but you should take everything someone says here about outing yourself or going out in public with a little skepticism.

we all here the horror stories of people losing there jobs and there friends or getting kicked out a a favorite organization, just read the media section and note some of my post.

How Society Shames Men Dating Trans Women & How This Affects Our Lives
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?201068-How-Society-Shames-Men-Dating-Trans-Women-amp-How-This-Affects-Our-Lives

Stealth taken too far?
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?200629-Stealth-taken-too-far

Marla Krolikowskii, Transgender Catholic School Teacher, Receives Legal Victory (VIDEO)
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?201062-Marla-Krolikowskii-Transgender-Catholic-School-Teacher-Receives-Legal-Victory-(VIDE

[PaulaQ]

I don't think this forum is dangerous.

I think the idea that you should always tell your spouse is dangerous - it can wreck a marriage. (It can also bring a couple closer together - it is totally situational.)

I think the idea that if your spouse doesn't accept your CDing, then it's a sign your marriage sucked anyway is also dangerous, and wrong-headed.

I think the idea that I can quit anytime is generally wrong, and pretty dangerous. I guess if you manage to pull it off (why are you here reading this forum then?) then you are lucky. Most report failure.

I think the amount of bullshit and denial that get slung around here in equal measures sometimes borders on dangerous.

There's also a lot of support here.

[Lucy_Bella]

Only if you allow it...I must say I fell into the "Forum Trance"... I took everything said here as good advice..Nope bad decision ,but that's my fault I can't blame a phone for crank calls either.. I knew better but it was so easy to accept something and have comfort in knowing I am not alone.. But like I said I allowed it.. Best advice I could give is THINK THINGS OUT before you do them..Do Not!! Go out with people you think can keep a secret ..Do Not!! Tell new S.O.'s about your secrets right out of the gate ..Think things out first... This is your problem no one else's ( if you see it as an issue)..If you are open and can care less about who knows what!! Than yes by all means join in the fantasy threads ..Have a blast after all you only live once..