camp

[arbon]

This weekend I went to another womens retreat. It was the second time I have gone to one but it was a lot different from the one I went to in the spring where we had motel rooms and really was not as intimate as the one this weekend.

This was at an outdoor camp and we stayed in very small cabins (8 bunk beds lining the walls with a small wood stove in the middle of the room) with 8 women in each. I had all friends in my cabin, they were all actually women who knew me when I lived as a man but that really embraced and accepted me when I came out. They did not really have any reservations about me being there, even with changing with me in the room. Me on the other hand had lots of reservations about changing cloths and stuff in the cabin - I'm so insecure about my body, everything that is wrong with it. So I would mostly try to wait until everyone else was out of the cabin, or try changing in my bed (tough in a top bunk made for 9 year olds!)

This morning though I said to heck with it pulled the sweats I slept in off and put on some pants and changed my shirt with several of the women in the room.

Bathrooms made me nervous to. I knew the women I was sleeping with who were all from my area, and a few of the other women, but the majority I did not know andwho were from all over central and southern idaho, and even utah. There were two bathroom areas about 50 women had to share. They had four very compact stalls with curtains, two sinks directly in front of the toilets, and two shower stalls. All very tight, if someone was at the sink they would have get right against the to sink to let you get into one of the toilets and even then you would brush each other.

It all made me nervous if someone was going to have an issue with me in there. And there were a couple times I had to go in there and there were women coming out of the shower partially naked.

But no one said anything or acted like I should not be there. In fact the whole weekend everyone was friendly to me. I was only mis gendered once (oh it stung!) but that was only negative I got the whole weekend.

Yet I had a pretty big breakdown Saturday, cried a few times once in front of pretty much everybody! and felt like a fool. Sometimes I feel so much dislike for my body, my looks, the way I sound, my past. I struggle a lot still with insecurities, with who / what I am, and it put a damper on the weekend . I have a hard time believing people can accept me despite all the obvious physical flaws. Being around lots of women seemed to really trigger it.

[mary something]

sounds like a really intimidating but awesome experience! I would have been so paranoid about a million different things probably like worried that I would snore or something else embarrasing lol. Thanks for sharing :)

[arbon]

Yes, I was worried about that to, I managed not to (I think?) but a couple of the women were pretty noisy in their sleep, and we all seemed pretty gassy to lol


My op what it all comes to is I just wish I could be a normal woman, not trans anything, just a regular woman being able to take it for granted thats the way everyone else will perceive me. It still seems like reaching for the impossible.

[AllieSF]

Congratulations. You actually took a very big step there in a difficult and confining situation. I think you did fabulously. I can understand your feelings, fears and concerns. Maybe it is similar to a lot of things and experiences in life that all of us humans run into, and like they tend to say, practice and experience seem to make the next time that much easier. Thank you for sharing and I send you a big hug from sunny and smoky (local fires) Northern California.

[Persephone]

Hi!

Congratulations! You took a big step and can be very proud of yourself.

It really hurts to read about the raw nerves that were exposed. I so want to give you a hug or something, but distance makes that a bit impractical.

I can understand the complexity of your feelings. Doing some of these things really taxes your courage.

But you did it! I think that the most important part is that your friends love you, support you, and accept you, and that is a gift beyond measure. What it says is that despite your issues, your insecurities, and your fears you belong. It takes a while to accept that, but it is the most important "take away" from the experience.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[ReineD]

I just want to give you the biggest hug that I have.

:hugs:

This is not a condescending hug (if you might take it that way). It is a hug of recognition. You are experiencing what many of us experience which is dissatisfaction with our bodies. We are never tall enough, skinny enough, curvaceous enough, pretty enough like all the models in the ads or that lucky girl next door. Our skin is never right and neither is our hair, and the clothes at the store never look the same on us as they do on the models. The boys are always looking at the popular girls who have the ideal looks and figures, and not us.

This does improve with time as our self confidence grows, despite having our bodies go south during middle age. (:p) Eventually we do stop caring that we do not conform to the media's ideal. But younger women often have a really bad time with negative body self-images.

I can read the same struggles in your post even though you struggle for different reasons. This is why I want to give you a hug.

[Nicole Erin]

This thread is a very honest one.
See, for those of us who are full time (as you are too), it is easy to feel secure at work, out shopping, around friends etc.
The hardest thing we have to deal with is bathroom or other tight personal spaces (like locker rooms). You handled it well.
Thank God they are not here anymore but as we all know, we have had a few members who just passed so perfectly that no one could figure it out.
Yet you are being honest here. You are saying your body is not perfect and that being in the cabins did make you uneasy. I guess the reason is cause it probably wouldn't take much more than just one woman to bitch about "the tranny" before it would become a problem.

I don't know what to say here. Normally I am all like, "everything is great" but this is not an easy situation. I will say though that after making it thru this, everything else in your transgender life should be cake.

[Nigella]

Your unease is understandable. Social conditioning is what has prevented you from relaxing in what is a gathering of women. If you could read the thoughts of others, I'm sure that you would have found the you were not alone in the way you felt about your body. Women have been socialised much better than men, they don't see the naked body as a competition. Women are more comfortable around each other, men see other men as competition.

Take heart that you have attended this camp and come home with a new experience, get over the fact that you were once a man, these camps will help you socialise as a woman in a more personal atmosphere. Take this experience and learn from it. :hugs:

[noeleena]

Hi,

This to me is about confidence in self , selfworth confidence in who one is knowing ones self to the point of accepteing this is who i am,

Oh... i dont look,,, quite,,, right yes seems to be quite a normal part of our lifes, or is all of this just a percived issue we have with our selfs , and im ashamed of my body.

Renaissance camp.

My body looks just like any other female , we have two camps each year one for a week end Nov with about 35 to 40 men and women Archers some of us are in the open hall dressing sleeping no drama , the other camp Dec Jan, is between 230 - 250, people ,

we have bunk rooms of 8 most times theres some 5 of us the last time all women i even ask at different time for help in dressing or un dressing all of us know each other , iv never had issues around females, males oh yes totaly different, yet surpriseing when we did have a male bunk in with us 3 women i was okay. normaly i would have bunked some other place, that was quite good knowing what im like about men.

What i see is in being very comfortable in your self do i really look that different you ask the same ? of your self, for me no there is no difference, i have allways struggled with my facial features thats my detail hey remember no makeup at our camps so no hideing behind a mask dont have one, or a wig or hair i thought what will those around me think, nothing other than & every one knows im female who has the rank with in our group of Lady, now men dont have that,

Just because we have these doughts about our selfs others dont they just accept who we are, how we look and we just become part of every one who is there, ....Oh yea a ...week ... is not long enough,

Nigella

You said social conditioning thats were its very different for myself i was not type cast in to that, it was not reinforced in myself, my Mother never did so allso no father,

maybe thats where i differ greatly i dont understand what your saying there, i do remember once it came up and i just walked away i was not prepared to bow to that thinking it looked all male not how i saw it as female, this was 40 years ago,

I sort of get what your saying just .... sorry ... gee how a male thinks .

Back to subject, Being free in your self being where you need to be & not letting any thing influence you other than being you,

Heres a ? or two. are you free in talking about any thing like no holding back ill use girl talk as a platform no inhabitons maybe that includes dressing & undressing like we do in the bunk rooms or shower rooms no one looks & if we do no bigge, just normal detail going on,

nothing to do with the camp.

funny as i have helped other dresser's in thier dressing at different do's i dont think about it maybe because i do it any way, as a normal female would, back to confidence then ,

...noeleena...

[LeaP]

Being around lots of women seemed to really trigger it.

This seems to be at the heart of your feelings. Do you think it's entirely about body image? How much does being pre-op factor in?

[Marleena]

Hi Arbon you're being too hard on yourself lately. I see lots of positives. Your GG friends are very accepting and you do fit in with them. So obviously you are doing things right. We all want to fit in and I totally get it. I think every GG I know wishes they were more beautiful or find something about themselves they wish they could change, Reine mentioned it earlier. You are doing really well. I wish I was.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I'm really really proud for you that did that, and that you let yourself be honest and emotional on the inside and outside...

your story is what it's really about...your journey(I kinda hate this word for it but it works) is real and authentic..

you can't pretend to be a woman ..you are one, and you experience life as one...(you always have!!)...

I have not been in any type of situation like the one you experienced and if I find myself in one, I will think of you

[Ceri Anne]

I can understand the challenges, but am so envious of your opportunity. To have gone with a group of GGs that knew and accepted is such a blessing. You realize that most GGs also suffer from anxiety about their bodies, the Barbie syndrome. That said, they saw you as one of them, so just be you and be one of them :)

I know I felt very special when some of my female friends I go out with, would change and do makeup in front of me. I really felt accepted as Ceri

[arbon]

This seems to be at the heart of your feelings. Do you think it's entirely about body image? How much does being pre-op factor in?

Yes a lot has to do with being pre-op, being the only woman there with a penis. But also when I would look at my image in the mirror I look so masculine I think who am I trying to fool? I look like a guy! Why should I be accepted as a woman? I have been feeling that a lot more in my life lately, very down on myself about it, feeling like some sort of in-between "thing". It just got to me over the weekend as i was so focused on my differences.

One thing that was nice though after my little saturday night crying in front of every one a couple women I did not know wrote me very nice, encouraging notes even though they probably did not know what I was really crying about. It was very kind of them and really touched me, especially considering they were both very christian women.

[Barbara Ella]

Oh my, what a treasurable experience for you dear. You will treasure those memories for the rest of your days, I am sure. I marvel at what you have done, and are doing, and cannot imagine what you will do. You really do shake my little world where I find it so difficult to even think about the marvelous things you, and the other girls here, find the courage to do that force yourself to be who you are.

Thank you so much for sharing this experience. I still get goosebumps thinking about being in a situation like that.

Barbara