Okay - Second Time Out - Not so good

[Marcelle]

Well,

Riding the high from my first little foray out (albeit quite a small outing), I decided to take my wife up on an offer to go to a nearby restaurant for a girls only meal. I guess I really should have done a reality check but I just felt so great yesterday I wanted to relive it (must be some kind of addictive surge of norepinephrine).

My wife and I worked on my make-up and outfit trying to find something casual but still trendy and fun (did not want to draw too much attention). The make-up we toned down a bit and brought my bangs further down to cover those crazy guy brows of mine. Hopefully the attachment works as it is what I wore this evening. Although I do not for a minute believe I looked like anything but a dude wearing women's clothing and a wig.

No real big issues driving to the restaurant though I did get a bit jumpy going through the nearby town when I had to stop at a light. People walked by but basically nobody looked or even cared. Another 20 minutes and we were in the parking lot. My heart felt like it was going to explode it was beating so hard. My wife gave me an out and said we don't have to if I don't want to do this. Oh well my motto has always been "in for a penny, in for a pound" (funny side story, that motto has always gets me in trouble - should have listened to my inner voice)

When we got to the entrance, two women walked out but didn't look our way. Once inside, I let my wife do the talking as my femme voice is still a work in progress. I believe the hostess guessed immediately as she gave me a bit of a funny look. We sat and waited. Now, I figured my wife could order for me but that would look a bit weird so I gave it a try. The waiter figured it out immediately but shrugged and took my order regardless. So good so far.

So things were going fine until about halfway through the meal. There is a small bar off the restaurant and had noticed three guys standing in the door looking our way, laughing and pointing . . . getting very uncomfortable now. I was not so much worried for myself but for my wife as the comments coming from them were loud enough to hear and were quite rude. Needless to say I was getting very self-conscious as a lot of patrons were now staring and there was some chuckling going on at other tables. I asked for the bill, paid and left. The manager did meet us at the door and apologized for what had happened and she was sorry some narrow minded people ruined our evening. I thanked her and we left.

I would like to say that was the end but unfortunately, when you mix narrow minded dudes and beer, it is not going to end well. They followed us outside and things got a bit heated. I was willing to walk away because it was directed at me but then one guy said something particularly rude about my wife. Now my wife always knows when I am about to loose it as apparently I get this look :devil:. . . she saw the look. She grabbed my hand and asked me not to ruin the evening and let it go. She then proceeded to gesture in their direction in a not so lady like manner.

The sight of my 5 foot 3 wife flipping the bird made me smile inwardly and I calmed and was about to walk when a second comment came our way. So male me was now driving the boat and I walked over to the group. One guy said "Look out he might hit you with his purse" That got some laughs. I was about to have at it but looked at my wife and I knew I couldn't let her gesture to accept and me, end on such a sour note of me getting into a fight.

So instead, in my male voice I simply said, "Are you kidding this purse if far too nice to waste it on a simpleton like you. Besides you are giving me grief, I'm going home with a beautiful woman who loves me, all I see are three dudes standing around with no women in sight . . . you guys on a date or something." Then because I was still in male mode I added (silently so my wife could not hear) "Now before you get it in your head to take a shot at me, decide amongst yourself which one of you is going to the hospital because I may not be able to take all three you but someone is going to wish they never tried."

There was a brief pause/awkward silence then the ring leader said "Ah the fag isn't worth it, let's go back inside and have some more beer".

Before they left, I couldn't help but say in my somewhat femme voice "Now that is the gentlemanly and wise thing to do boys. Have fun on your date" and proceeded to walk very femme back to our car. :heehee:

So, this little foray has given me a bit of a reality kick and I think I will slow things down. C'est la vie . . . win some you loose some. But it was a bit of an adventure and it taught me that while some of us may be fortunate to blend in, my ugly mug is not going to make that possible . . . so I am afraid Isha will have to go back to living vicariously through male me.

Hugs

Isha

[Chiana]

It is a shame that jerks like that exist. Good for you for standing your ground. Sounds like you handled the situation well.

[Suzanne F]

Isha
So sorry! I doubt that would happen if you were out with the girls in our beautiful San Francisco. Please don't let those guys take away everything you have gained in the last few weeks!
Suzanne

[Beverley Sims]

Isha,
Yes it is a little reality check,
now it is one step back and later you can take two steps forward again.
That unfortunately is life.

[PaulaQ]

Isha, don't let haters stop you. It sucks that happened to you, and I'm glad no one got hurt. But these types of things happen sometimes. I bet it wouldn't happen again - there are assholes like that out there, but most people aren't like that.

If anything gave you away, it was probably your nervousness. Walk into a place like you own it - it helps.

I think you handled em pretty well, but you might have considered calling the police, you weren't doing anything wrong, but they surely were.

[Kim_Bitzflick]

In my opinion, you have all the more reason to go out. You handled the situation quite well & established yourself as you belong out there. Don't go hiding because of this.

[dandy]

I certainly hope you see this as a victory. If anything, you should have that much more confidence in going out - clearly, you can handle the heat like a pro.

Look, I don't want to get too maudlin, but this is actually a very inspirational story. I'm a big, big Isha fan right now.

[Julie Denier]

Sounds like you handled yourself well. Nicely done ;)

[MissTee]

Nicely done. Sounds like you can handle whatever comes your way and that's a good thing. If it happened to me, at this point I would be wondering how my wife felt about things. It might be her desire to take it easy and inside she might be terrified from the experience. Could be wise then to give it a rest (as you suggest) for a spell and give both of you a chance to digest what happened and how to move forward.

I would think, too, that perhaps being out in po-dunk nowhere (where men are men and sheep are nervous) you weren't likely amongst the open minded crowd. Maybe next time visit someplace more noted for it's accepting nature.

[Rachelakld]

You did a lot better than I would have done, I probably would have left blood at the bar (hopefully theirs and not to much of mine)

[mbmeen12]

I am a believer the glass is half full. You had restraint and still held your ground. More important your wife believes in you and trusts your inner self to come up. Good on you...

[Christina Kay]

You did we'll. you looked great. You handled yourself as a lady should. You ventured where a lot of us can only hope too. And you have a wife who has your back. Does it get any better, to me I think not. Oh , you looked really good in your attachment. :) hugs

[NathalieX66]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
I've been out 1-4 times a month for the last four years.....you do the math, I can't do it anymore.

My first time out was at a hotel bar near a military base with plenty of military personnel, lots of army camo. My support group dragged me into it , the servicepeople were cool. That evening was fun.

The same support group also dragged me to an all night diner, near a drag stip, the car kind. It was midnight, and plenty of racecar crowd. We got heckled and shamed. Plenty of dirty epithets, That was that. Fortunately the restaurant owner & staff treated us like gold, and we were well defended.

[Marcelle]

Hi everyone,

Thanks very much for your kind words and support.

My wife and I did talk quite a bit about this after I posted. While MissTee is probably correct po-dunk nowhere was probably not a wise venue to try as the balance of probabilities would state that the intolerant will most likely outweigh the tolerant. We do believe it comes down to my presentation. It takes a whole lot of make-up to make this remotely feminine as my signature picture can attest. I am going to get made immediately, no matter where I go or what I do to look feminine. So I either have to learn to live with that or go back "house only mode".

My wife asked me if I enjoyed it and I had to admit there was a very intoxicating element to it. So we both agreed that we will slow down a bit and not rush to the next outing, but there will be another one, on that we both agree. We'll work on presentation and make-up (good luck there) :eek: before I venture out again. Then it will be in a larger area where blending might be easier (small steps again). Unfortunately, it will have to be very distant from my current residence as I cannot risk being discovered by work colleagues at this point . . . three more years and then I am out of the military and free to be fully out.

However, personal feelings/presentation aside, my biggest fear is that my wife almost saw a side of me I have never (nor hopefully ever) will allow her to see :devil:. In some ways, that side is even harder to embrace and integrate than Isha ever was. So I think I will need to work on that before any other big outings.

So is the end of Isha . . . not likely. I have come to like who I am becoming as I integrate myself with both halves. So there is not going back for me. Was this a wake-up call . . . Yup. Did it hurt . . . most definitely. Will it stop . . . Nope. I guess I'll just have to get better with make-up :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[CD_DIANE]

Hi Isha,

Several thoughts... First you handled the situation well. Fools and alcohol don't mix ! I can't help but wonder if the manager should have done more than she did. I also wonder about your last comment. I would think your wife would appreciate your willingness to stand up to the idiots. To me,it validates you as a person (in her mind) regardless of the clothing you are wearing ! Good job !

Diane

[sometimes_miss]

Isha, don't let haters stop you. It sucks that happened to you, and I'm glad no one got hurt. But these types of things happen sometimes. I bet it wouldn't happen again <snip>
As long as you're willing to bet your life, and your wife's on it. There are a lot of jerks out there that might NOT step back from a comment, for fear of losing face by backing down from a 'sissy'. Isha, you dodge'd a bullet. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it again, but I'd recommend being much more careful about where you choose to go 'out'. Getting into a fight in public is a no win situation for an adult. Do you really want to spend the night in jail in a dress? Probably not. Of course, if you like those kinds of adventures, well there you go.

[Maria 60]

Good job, but its to bad it even had to get that far. About a month ago we went out for dinner in a same type restaurant with a bar in the centre. A couple sat next to us, she was tall wearing a beautiful short summer dress and he was short and almost nerdy. There were guys at the bar checking her out and then they were walking by to go to the washroom they were bumping into her making it seem like an accident and trying to look up her skirt. I wasn't enjoying my meal because we were hearing them chuckling about her and we knew that they could hear. So I turned to the couple and said to him I don't know why they put these bars in family restaurants and why people just can't mind there own business and make us enjoy our meal. I told him that I am not much of a fighter but if your willing to go let me know I got your back, I hate what these guys are saying about your girl and I hate that they are acting like this because they are in big numbers. He turned to and said is it OK if we leave together in case theses drunk guys decide to do something studied. I said ok and wouldn't you know it when we walked out a few of them walked out behind us and where still making remarks about his girl. We got to his car and he thanked us and said to me that he felt like a wimp not saying anything to them. I told him he did the right thing there were about ten of them that even superman would have been out numbered and to me it's a word for a word an action for a action and at the end of the day you are going home with your girl hand in hand and we all know the only thing those guys are going to have in there hand tonight. They laughed and thanked us again and they felt bad theses guy even spoiled our night and asked us if they could buy us coffee and cake somewhere else. We said no thanks we already had to much excitement for one night. Thank God we didn't fight I was underdressed and at the end I could have been the big joke. It just goes to show it not just a cross dressing to be a problem some people just love to cause trouble and alcohol doesn't mix. I hope your not to disappointed and don't make a few bad apples put you down.

[kimdl93]

I hope this doesn't dampen your enthusiasm or your wife's for sharing experiences together. Too bad the morons happened to be out.


you look cute in the pic! Great smile!

[Sarah Beth]

I think you handled the situation pretty well. I'm not so sure I could have kept my temper in check well enough to have remained that much in control.

Just think about this though. Guys like that are bullies, they were out there looking for someone they could pick on to make themselves feel more macho. You probably kept them from finding someone weaker they could bully.

I also wonder after all that how much longer they were allowed to stay in the place. Trouble makers in a place that like drive away customers and that's bad for business.

[linda allen]

As long as you're willing to bet your life, and your wife's on it. There are a lot of jerks out there that might NOT step back from a comment, for fear of losing face by backing down from a 'sissy'. Isha, you dodge'd a bullet. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it again, but I'd recommend being much more careful about where you choose to go 'out'. Getting into a fight in public is a no win situation for an adult. Do you really want to spend the night in jail in a dress? Probably not. Of course, if you like those kinds of adventures, well there you go.

That's some good, real world advice. Think about it seriously. Nobody wins a street fight, everybody goes to jail.

Isha, next time (please don't let this one time stop you), pick a better place to go. If you choose a restaurant, chose one without a bar. Choose more of a family restaurant. There are other places to go of course. Parks, museums, movies, etc. where there are less apt to be this type of guys hanging out looking for trouble.

[Dana921]

I would add my support from the others here to you! Avoiding a fight was the right thing to do especially with your wife there for no other reason than she is left unprotected and potentially vulnerable if you are not physically able to be there for her after the fight.

I would also encourage you to continue being you and presenting as you wish. As with any endeavor, the more you do it the better you will get. Presentation is often more about confidence, mannerisms, and overall attitude of knowing whom and what you are, this will get most people to accept you even if they have read you and do not understand why! It may not make the experience any less emotionally hurtful, but the good part is when you are complimented, get your first mam, have a door held open for you by a gentleman those bad experiences will seem less significant. One of the best weapons we all have at our disposal is to SMILE! This carries the day often in being treated politely and even nice! People want to be with other happy people, and when we are presenting and being whom we feel we are, well, we should be amongst the happiest in the world!

[Marcelle]

Getting into a fight in public is a no win situation for an adult.


That's some good, real world advice. Think about it seriously. Nobody wins a street fight, everybody goes to jail.



Hi Linda and Sometimes_miss.

Yes, very sage advice. I have spent a greater part of my adult life fighting either competitively or as part of my job. There is one constant . . . nobody wins a street fight. That was one (not the only) reason I did not pursue and altercation. Somebody would have got hurt physically leading to most likely an awkward police moment but my wife would have been hurt emotionally . . . nobody wants to see a love one loose it to the point of utter abandonment . . . not a pretty picture.

Will definitely be more careful on venue for a future outing.

Thanks and hugs

Isha

[FeliciaCDSNJ]

I think you handled that rather well,better than I would have handled it. You shouldn't hide yourself because you shown so much confidence. You go girl!

[Sophie Yang]

Isha,

First off, I think that you and your wife are an inspiration to a lot of the girls here. Why?

In one of your posts, I believe you said something to the effect that going into combat was easier than going out because you are going out as a team. I remember reading that incredulously and saying to myself, “Really, are you kidding me.” And yet here you are out twice in a very short period of time.

I also remember in one of your posts that you could not have your picture out in the public. I am so glad that you did not deck those guys. I suspect that if police mug shots are not part of the public domain, it doesn't take much to get access to them. Whatever the provocation, it is not worth tarnishing 17 years of military service. I am not sure if there is also the risk of reduction or loss of your pension as a result of such an altercation. Anyway, something more to think about. I just read Princess Warrior. If I recall correctly, one of the Navy Seal Team 6 members who bagged Osama Bin Laden, after 17 years of service has no pension because he left the Seals. Now that just seems so wrong to me on so many levels. But that is a different discussion.

For those who go out, there are two camps. Those who have not been called out and those who have. Unfortunately, over time, most of the first group ends up in the second group.

I belong to a T-Girl group and one of the girls had a similar incident which she posted. I could not find the post. But she handled it a little bit differently. She was in a restaurant with a bar. As I recall she was talking on her cell phone when some drunk farmer, sitting with his wife, called her out across the restaurant. Initially she just ignored him, but the farmer kept taunting her. Finally, she slowly turned around and looked straight at him and said in her male voice something like “what is your problem, that I am talking on my cell or that I am wearing a dress?”

Now insecure people really hate that awkward silent period, especially if they have been called out. Eventually they will fill it with some dribble. The more the farmer dribbled, the worst he looked. The patrons at the restaurant were riveted to basically the farmers diatribe. The restaurant staff is ready to intervene on her behalf. She finally says something like, “lets not ruin everyones dinner. Lets just have management choose which one of us should pay and leave” and stares at him. He finally says “F...it, lets go.” Her parting remark as the farmer and his wife are about to leave...”and I hope you have a son just like me!”, probably with a tilted head and a coy smile. Management told her she was welcome back any time and the farmer was not.

In summary, she acknowledge that she was a cross dresser and took the verbal jousting directly back to her antagonist in a public forum.

What I found fascinating about your post was when they followed you and your wife out and Isha walks over for a man-to-man talk. Your professional training gives you a skill set and more importantly a mind set that most of us do not have. In an emergency, most people flee the scene. Yet first responders, because of their training, go rushing in to serve and protect.

Anyway these guys seem like old high school bullies who grew up, but never matured emotionally. I have no background in sociology or psychology, but I suspect that they were really surprised you had the backbone to take the verbal jousting to them. Based on the dialog, it sounds like your lines were cleanly directed at their male insecurities and more importantly, delivered face to face. I suspect that there bravado was waning when you walked over to them engaging them in verbal jousting. It sounds like it totally waned when the talking stage is over and it is time for action. Talk is so cheap.

I see a little psychological warfare going on here. One against three, not very good odds. At least one person is willing and very confident to put it all on the line face to face, now. One side has given the other side something to think about, something with an unpleasant outcome. I cannot imagine thinking and fighting go hand in hand especially if it is hand-to-hand. It is not only what you said, but how you said it, with confidence and as a matter of fact, that also gave them second thought. After the fact, it is always easier to come up with the line never thought of at the moment...”but someone is going to wish they never tried. I have instructed my wife to call for ambulances if this goes down.”

It is not stated in your post, but my reading between the lines is the leader, or at least the mouth piece, had already been picked out. If fists flew, I assume, depending on proximity, he would have been the first to go down. And if he did go down quickly, the “spirit” would have left the other two.

If I could rewrite the fairy tale ending to your post...”Before they left, I couldn't help but say in my somewhat femme voice "Now boys, lets be grown ups. No hard feelings. I believe we owe the restaurant an apology. How about we go all back in apologize and have that drink.”

Ballsy yes. If anyone could have pulled it off, I think Isha could have. It takes a lot of practice and confidence to go out. Just need to transfer the confrontation confidence you displayed to Isha confidence and you will be out and about.

Be safe. Love reading your posts.

Hugs,

Sophie

[Stephanie47]

You handled the situation in a proper manner. I agree, alcohol and idiots do not mix well. If you had decided to come to blows with those knuckle draggers, and, the police were called, you could have ended up with a much worse situation. Your presentation as a woman, while being in the military, may not have faired well with the military.

Fortunately in Washington State gays, lesbians, transsexuals, and, gender expression are protected by law. To act negatively toward a cross dresser would be a hate crime in addition to the principal charge. Too many states do not offer this added protection.

[Stevie]

There are always going to be idiots out there that enjoy picking on people that they believe are weaker than them. Just cowards. It is very hard to look the other way. I commend how you handle this but egging them on is risky.

[Marcelle]

... I believe you said something to the effect that going into combat was easier than going out because you are going out as a team. I remember reading that incredulously and saying to myself, “Really, are you kidding me.” And yet here you are out twice in a very short period of time.

.... It is not stated in your post, but my reading between the lines is the leader, or at least the mouth piece, had already been picked out. If fists flew, I assume, depending on proximity, he would have been the first to go down. And if he did go down quickly, the “spirit” would have left the other two.



Hi Sophie,

I still stand by my original comment that going out in public this time was harder than my first combat experience. With combat you are working on muscle memory. Going out in public en femme . . . no muscle memory there.

As far as going out in a short time, I would never had done it if my wife had not suggested it. When I decided to, I used the same logic I did when I made my first parachute jump, close my eyes and hope for the best. If the chute was there when I opened my eyes . . . that is a good thing. In this case, the chute was there to begin with but got lost toward the end of the evening. :)

Yup, you are right . . . if it had gone down, "big mouth" would have been the first to go. I find once you get rid of the bluster mouth, the hanger on types tend to bow out quickly. Luckily it never came to that :)

Thanks for your kind comments. I still take this as a bit of a reality check and will most likely lick my wounds for awhile then try again.

Hugs

Isha

[ryenmatt]

So your going to let some bullies run your life eh?????

[AmyGaleRT]

Isha, you faced up to a challenge, and you handled it in a commendable, and even ladylike, manner. You seized the moral high ground and never relinquished it, despite the temptation to do so. I don't have to remind a soldier of your caliber of the words of Sun Tzu: "Supreme excellence in war consists in subduing the enemy without fighting."

Now don't be discouraged by this. Get back on that horse and get out there again! And your makeup skills will get better with practice, much as (I'm sure) your marksmanship did, so don't hesitate to keep doing so. Show the world that you will not be broken and you will not stand down because of the idiocy of a small group of bigots!

Hugs :hugs:

- Amy

[Alice Torn]

You are so very fortunate to have your loving wife, as an ally! I am 59, never had a mate, and all the women i wanted, would never accept a man who puts on lady stuff! I don't hink it will ever be totally comfortable for us super tall, or many looking CD's. I was jeered at my second time out, too, and stopped by a cop! Going out alone is terrifying, and all i have done. You are so frtunate, with your special wife, and you handles it all well. It sounds like a number of other folks in there, were giggling, and jeering a bit, too. If i went in to one of the local restaurants or bars here, all dolled up, there would be jeering, too. for me.

Maria60, Those dudes should not have harrassed that tall beauty with her little nerdy boyfriend, period! However, as a very tall, six foot six single old man, i find it frustrating, that so many very tall women go for shorter men. I would never insult them, though. it just hurts that some of us tall men never find a tall lady. So, i dress up as my tall lady dream lady!

[Marcelle]

Hi Amy,

Thanks much for your support. Definitely going to work on the make-up although this will be far more challenging than improving my marksmanship (I make a horrible looking woman). But I will try again in a more friendly venue where it is more likely I will blend with the crowd . . . not saying I won't get read but hopefully it will be only a few chuckles, whispers and pointing (can deal with that).

Hi Ryenmatt,

Definitely not going to let bullies run my life. However, as my wife wants to accompany me in the future, I want to make sure I have a fighting chance of blending (at the least) so as not to make the situation more difficult on her than I know it will be. In addition, I have to work on my temper. I may have been able to take the morale high ground last time, but it was very, very, very difficult. Getting into a heated altercation which transcends into a brawl would not be good for myself or my wife. Been working on this temper thing for some time now with a therapist and am slowly making strides.

Hi Alice,

I applaud your strength and courage. I don't think I would have ever gone out without my wife in support. It takes tremendous courage to do so on your own.

Hugs all,

Isha

[MonctonGirl]

. . . you guys on a date or something?"



lol -- awesome.

Now buy YOUR WIFE some diamond earrings ... and tell her you'll never ask to borrow them.

[Ashley_K]

Hi Isha, I've been thinking about this post all day. I'm really sorry that you were treated like that, and I hope that doesn't discourage you from going out in the future. While I may have handled the situation differently, I'm so happy that you have a wife that will stick with you. That's real love. I can just see her flicking off those guys at the bar. It's one thing to try to convince my wife to be seen with me in public if I were completely passable and we wouldn't get any flak, and it's a whole nother thing if she'll be with me if I'm easily read. I'm really impressed by her commitment to you. It's very encouraging to me!

~Ashley~

[Marcelle]

Thanks Ashley for your kind comments. I am very fortunate indeed and believe, I never take her acceptance or love for granted.

Hugs

Isha

[CD_blue]

This no doubt I am sure was terrible experience for you but I must say... Bravo! You handled it perfect imho. :)

[Vickie_CDTV]

I have to be a little bit critical, your wife should not have flipped them off. The worst thing you can do is agitate them and thus provoke them further. In this day and age, you could have ended up in worse that a fistfight. How did you and your wife know they did not have a knife or a gun?

[ReineD]

You handled it well!

Small pics do not give a good representation of a life-sized you, so I'm wondering if you had beard shadow showing. My SO actually got laser beard removal to zap any dark hairs. Also, you might want to go ahead and trim your eyebrows. You do have muscular legs, so you might think about wearing skirts that show just the knees and calves. My SO also found a way to change the look of his male V body, by adopting hip pads and wearing a waist cincher. You were wearing long sleeves, but if you ever go sleeveless you might consider trimming and perhaps bleaching the arm hair. And last, learn about facial contouring which is a useful technique for CDers that most GG are not aware of, since we don't need to narrow our noses, create cheekbones, and narrow our jawlines. There is a way to contour the face without having it look like caked-on makeup.

Point is, there are lots of little things you can do, that combined can make a difference. Your goal might be to pass from a certain distance, even though the people who are interacting with you directly will know that you are not a GG.

One last thing ... in time you will know the types of places you can go to, that are likely to not attract the type of patrons that would razz you, especially as you work on perfecting your presentation.

FYI, my SO used to have people notice a great deal more in the beginning than she does now. It will just take practice.

[Marcelle]

. . . so I'm wondering if you had beard shadow showing . . . you might want to go ahead and trim your eyebrows. You do have muscular legs, so you might think about wearing skirts that show just the knees and calves . . .You were wearing long sleeves, but if you ever go sleeveless . . . and last, learn about facial contouring . . . there is a way to contour the face without having it look like caked-on makeup.

Hi Rene,

Thanks so much for your feedback. Yeah I know bad picture, but my presentation (face wise) is so horrible I am a bit nervous to post an up close pic for fear it might scare people :eek: :)

Yes, I have been trying various beard covers, lipstick, reddish orange cover, followed by foundation and setting powder. Problem is that I have a very thick beard (think full beard in two weeks thick). To cover it, it ends up looking very thick and cakey. So when I smile (lots of wrinkles around the eyes . . . I feel very old now) and it looks plain hideous . . . hence I don't smile a lot. Laser is off the table. While my wife is fine with body hair removal, she will not acquiesce on the facial hair (have to respect that as she still wants her male time with me).

Eyebrows - have to very careful there as getting too thin or feminine will definitely draw comments at work. Have been slowly thinning to lessen the shock (believe me I have some bushy brows and have reduced so far by about 1/4). Work in progress.

Legs . . . point taken. My wife was commenting on that last night while we were looking a clothing. A longer skirt (just above the knees) toned down the legs and gave them a more feminine look (in her opinion)

Could never go completely sleeveless, I have some major body art up top which would be less than feminine and my upper arms are way too guy . . . so sleeves for this gal.

Contouring . . . I have been trying but don't seem to have the knack and as you said my wife doesn't know because she doesn't have to do it. I am not sure what make-up to buy to create this effect and when I do try . . . cakey land again. Any help on this front would be appreciated.


How did you and your wife know they did not have a knife or a gun?

Hi Vickie. Thanks very much for your concern. I am very trained at detecting the presence of knives and weapons. Body posture and carriage tend to be tell tale signs (albeit not always). Believe me, if I even thought for a second weapons were involved, this would have gone down completely different. Specifically, this would have been a call to the police before I even thought about exiting the building with my wife.

Hugs all

Isha

[linda allen]

So your going to let some bullies run your life eh?????

The "macho" thing for a man to do when confronted is to escallate the situation to the point where the other party either backs down or throws a punch.

Well, "macho" is often not the best solution. Unless you're the bigges and baddest person in the situation, the other party (parties in this case) may not back down. That puts you with the choice of backing down or fighting. It's already been said, nobody wins a street or bar fight. Both parties get hurt, sometimes weapons are involved, and if the police are called, both parties go to jail.

So is you pride stronger than your good sense?

[ReineD]

Contouring . . . I have been trying but don't seem to have the knack and as you said my wife doesn't know because she doesn't have to do it. I am not sure what make-up to buy to create this effect and when I do try . . . cakey land again. Any help on this front would be appreciated.

I cannot find it, but Lorileah recently posted this wonderful video from youtube, showing the technique (albeit on a GG but this does not matter), and also giving a list of products used. You could pare the list down though since IMO you could do it all with two or three brushes.

If Lori doesn't see this and repost the link, maybe you could PM her. :)

My SO had laser beard removal a little while after her beard had begun to gray. Laser only removes dark hairs and so she was still left with facial hair, but not the dark beard shadow. When we go out if the hairs begin to feel rough, she is able to dry shave the area (in the car) without taking any of the makeup off.

If you haven't begun to gray yet, then I understand your reluctance to remove all your beard.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Yes, I have been trying various beard covers, lipstick, reddish orange cover, followed by foundation and setting powder. Problem is that I have a very thick beard (think full beard in two weeks thick). To cover it, it ends up looking very thick and cakey. So when I smile (lots of wrinkles around the eyes . . . I feel very old now) and it looks plain hideous . . . hence I don't smile a lot. Laser is off the table. While my wife is fine with body hair removal, she will not acquiesce on the facial hair (have to respect that as she still wants her male time with me).


Your wife may not want you to get rid of your facial hair completely, but since you have a heavy beard she might be open to the idea of a beard reduction. Even a small reduction of total active follicles can make a big difference in terms of telltale shadow and skin texture. Some men who are totally cisgender who suffer from ingrows or other hair issues opt for this.

[Genny B]

I read your post on the day you posted it and wanted to respond but didn't have the time to think it out. My hat's off to you Isha. Retired military myself, so I understand. And it doesn't get easier afterwards really if you still work for the government and work with a clearance. I think you handed the perv's very well. I also think your wife has done a great job making you presentable! Do NOT give up! Enjoy your time out! You might have to be a little more selective of where you go, but you can still get out there!
Genny B

[ReineD]

Isha, I've just found the Contouring video. If you click on "Show More" in the description, you'll find a list of products used. I don't think that you need all the brushes that he has:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bBLHE0ME-GA

[Marcelle]

Thanks Reine. I will definitely have a look. I never thought I would say this but, I wish my beard would go grey . . . alas it has not still hanging on to that black. I figured by now it would be getting at least a little grey.

Hugs

Isha

[Ruby John]

Hi Isha
It took me a couple of years to get the make-up to where I was happy with it. Any time I am out dressed I try to handle all situations as a woman would. When out with with my wife and I am dressed, handle it as a couple of women. I try to go only to nice and upscale clubs and rest. I don't want to put my wife at any risk. I check out the place first. Your make up skills will improve. Check out utube for 1000s of ideas. When out with my wife I do everything I can for her to have a good time and we have had many. Good Luck with your adventure! Don't give it up. Ruby If dressed as man, I would have had a go with those guys.

[sometimes_miss]

That's some good, real world advice. Think about it seriously. Nobody wins a street fight, everybody goes to jail.

Isha, next time (please don't let this one time stop you), pick a better place to go. If you choose a restaurant, chose one without a bar. Choose more of a family restaurant. There are other places to go of course. Parks, museums, movies, etc. where there are less apt to be this type of guys hanging out looking for trouble.
Perhaps an expensive, quiet place. They are probably not very likely not to have clientele idiots who are prone to misbehave.

[vallerie lacy]

Isha
Sorry to hear of your ruined evening. You have a great wife and I'm glad that you listened to her. SOMETIMES MISS was right on the money. But it's not only a night in jail, A lucky punch and a head hitting the ground could have made for a long time in jail or the end of your life. I felt your rage and your wife's apprehension. You did the right thing. Now get back on the horse and GIDDEYUP to the next stop. And give your wife a really big kiss.

[Marcelle]

Thanks Valerie and Sometimes Miss,

Yup . . . we plan to try a more family style restaurant and bit more high end. Scouting locations now (away from home). Still working on my presentation. I feel like I am planning a combat mission:

(1) Equipment - dress, heels, lingerie - check; (2) Camouflage - make-up - work in progress (3) Infiltration - vehicle (4) Actions On - what to do should plan A go to pot and 10 different courses of action just in case (5) Exfiltration - vehicle again (6) After Action Report - what went wrong and what didn't.

However, I think combat is easier :heehee:

Hugs

Isha

[Diversity]

Nice job, Isha. You handled the situation very well and did the right thing in avoiding the conflict. Admittedly the best way to handle it would have been to walk away and totally ignore the comments. However, in reality, the male in you came out (as it would in me as well), and you confronted the fools, and managed the situation very well.
Let's face it, if we cannot totally pass, we must be open to the fact that we are putting ourselves out there in a society which is generally not accepting of CD'ing. We are, in a way, inviting criticism. So we must accept and expect that this will happen from time to time. As such, we must also be prepared to handle adverse situations, and should avoid areas where confrontation will be greater. Stay alert and aware of our surroundings.
Good luck!
Di

[Dannigurlfriend]

It's truly a shame that small minded people cannot adopt a live and live policy, I am truly sorry that it happened I know it sucks I have had similar things happen to me although not as confrontational as your experience. You sound like you handled it wonderfully hun. If I had to guess, I would say the Alpha male was a closeted homosexual that was trying to get a better look LOL.

[candicd]

Isha,

Don't let this deter you from going out. I read your story and the 1st thing I thought was "I would start flirting with the guys". Then it would have depended on who I was with. Your wife was awesome. Give her a hug for all of us.

[bigbbalti]

Great pic post more

[Amanda M]

Isha - I HATE what happened to you and your wife, and the way you handled it was great. Please, please do not let these Neanderthals deter you.

I think all males have, somewhere in them, the wish to physically stand up to bullies, and ther is a time and place for it probably. It is an urge best controlled, as inevitably, (and as I found out to my cost when I was much younger and sillier) you eventually get head to head with some one who is bigger, stronger and more vicious than you!

Work on the makeup, lady.

Here's to your next outing together!

[cdmorganashley]

Isha, first off i am really sorry to hear this happened to you... secondly, i am really conflicted about how i feel about how you handled this situation... on one hand i'm glad you stood up for yourself, but on the other hand i worry that this is the way stabbings, severe beatings, etc. come about... i mean you just never know how far another person is willing to take this confrontation, and just how severe their hate may be... also, where you are with your wife who is to say they will be satisfied beating you up? i mean maybe i am way overreacting but what if they decide they want to show her how a "real man" treats a woman, or maybe they just decide she needs to be taught a lesson for flipping them off--i mean these horror stories exist because they happened to someone, and who's to say this situation might not go there... ultimately, hurting one such person and getting attacked is not going to prove anything to them, and even if they feel you're not worth the trouble i'm not convinced this is the best way to go about changing their close-minded attitudes... anyway, i would feel the pull to stand up for myself and threaten them in a similar way, but i wonder if a better approach might be to take advantage of the staff person offering her apology to ask that a couple people accompany you to your car... maybe that is being a "chicken" in some people's minds, but in a way i think it also sends a message that your not an easy target and that there are other people that support your safety... based on the other comments in this threat i think i might get some criticism for putting this course of action out there, but i just feel the world is full of crazy people and you just don't know who you are dealing with... people get shot and attacked for cutting someone off in traffic, you just never know... all that said i hope you are able to get out again, please just be careful, and at least consider all your options before issuing a challenge to people who obviously are not operating in what might be considered a logical or reasonable way =)

[sl-Stephanie]

I thought you did awesome I give you and your wife a lot of credit. Yes, some thing bad could have happened, but something could of happened any were even in guy mood. There are #ssholes every were. Don't let it stop you from going out. You are lucky that your wife is so supportive.

[Chickhe]

I've never experienced anything like what you did, but a situation like that calls for either the bouncer's help (demand that the owner provides you with a safe place to be...its your right) or call the police. If you are being heckled in a public place and the person follows you out in to the street they are already committing an assault, they are threatening you with harm...its a legitimate 911 call. You want the police to at least talk to these guys even if not much happens after that. The message from the police will be a strong one and you will have done the right thing not to let them off... maybe making life better for the next CDer. The police don't need to know your real name either as long as you didn't fight back.

You don't want to fight them because then the law considers it a fair fight and they place equal blame. You want to appear to be helpless...immediately demand help...you might have to instruct the staff what to do though...like ask them to eject the guys or ask them to call for the police. Then you should probably stay where you are with all the witnesses until help arrives.

[Heather_Shirly]

That is a bummer. You are way to good looking to deal wiht that stuff. I hate really narrowminded people. I guess this is something we have all lived with.

THe two things in this story taht are awesome:

You have more courage then me to go out and to share it with your wife.
Your wife is awesome for sticking up for you!

[Trishpdxcd2]

Not only did you handle it well ....but you were right, you got to go home with a beautiful woman who loves you. Not many cd's can say that!