general femininity

[jack-sparrow]

hello everyone

There's something that has always mystified me when it comes to femininity and just the female aspect. A recent post on here was talking about how being feminine usually is expensive, that companies (cosmetic companies in particular) sell a boat load of products to women in an effort to exploit their insecurities and reap massive financial gains/profits in the process.

This got me thinking, why does that happen?

I mean all the clothes, beauty products, hair salons, nail appointments, shoes, lingerie etc eventually adds up into the hundreds of dollars per person. Then I look at the male side of things and it's much simpler, no sales pitches just the basics, don't get me wrong I love femininity but I realize that sometimes LESS is more (being a guy that is) but I guess I feel a certain amount foolishness for liking femininity for either myself as a light CDer or for women.

[Bifrost]

BOOM! This is exactly the conversation I seem to have ongoing with my SO.

I personally do not think that femininity has anything to do with salons, nail appointments or beauty products, but FAKING femininity kind of requires at least some of this stuff (my nails have never been done by anyone but me).

As for feeling a little foolish, hey - us CDs have some sort of chemical reaction in our brain which makes us want to dress in clothes which were not designed for our gender. It's all a bit extraordinary.

Sure, there's the aspect of actually LOOKING like the alternate gender and not just dressing like them, but do we usually want to dress in a man's shirt and a pair of jeans, then cross our legs a lot? I, for one, do not. Well there are a bunch of women who do dress in that stuff. My SO even, quite rightly, posed that if someone commented on the shirt I was wearing & said it looked like it was a womens' shirt, I would feel happier - even if it wasn't a womens' shirt! Just completely irrational.

I have made peace with the fact that cross-dressing simply doesn't make any sense, but I still really enjoy doing it.

[Amanda M]

In my view you are only being foolish if you spend more (time, resources or cash) on your crossdressing than you can genuinely afford.

No sales pitches for men? What about Rolex watches, Ferraris (I have two!) Gucci loafers, Armani suits (my wardrobe is full of them, crammed in beside my Jimmy Choos and my Lana Marks handbags. Lana is such a darling, always happy to change a design for one. Just dreamin...........

[Tawne]

I've spend about 1k in the last month on god knows what, and I don't seem to have anything to wear for tomorrow!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jack, No one ever said that being a lady was going to be easy or inexpensive but I love doing it anyway.

[Sandra]

Femininity doesn't come out of a bottle, it's not what you wear, it's not what perfume you use, it's not how you look, it comes from inside and that costs nothing.

[Kate Simmons]

Men are supposed to be handsome and charming while women are supposed to be beautiful and desirable which is why there is such a seeming disparity. The woman makes the initial investment but the man provides the maintenance for a relationship(usually).It all evens out in the end more or less. ;):)

[Beverley Sims]

I think it is inbuilt, actions,gestures, thoughts and and general demeanor.

[Marcelle]

Femininity doesn't come out of a bottle, it's not what you wear, it's not what perfume you use, it's not how you look, it comes from inside and that costs nothing.

I agree with Sandra on this point. While we may go to lengths to dress for various reasons and levels (each is different). That which is feminine (I am not talking gender her) but mindset, emotions, personality and the likes is something no gender can claim supremacy anymore than men can claim being confident, aggressive and "in your face" is a proclivity of masculinity only.

The packaging does not make the person. I know lots of guys who spend thousands on clothing, accessories in an attempt to be more macho and attractive to the ladies. Just like I know lots of women who have a wardrobe of two or three outfits a couple of pairs of shoes and make-up somewhere in the house.

So is more expensive to be a guy or a girl . . . depends on the person. But expressing femininity can occur without clothing if need be.

Just my two cents.

Hugs

Isha

[gautier_nikolai]

Women tend to "peacock" it up , like alot of CDs like to do , when younger especially and when trying to attract a mate and brands and capitalist globalism naturally recognises this and tries to squeeze every cent out of it they can.

Men tend to show their financial might as providers through other means, maybe flashy cars when younger and like Amanda said some have Rolexes for that purpose.So i guess both sexes can be exploited just as much by global capitalism equally; just through different products.

Although, i agree, dressing up has nothing to do with the essential quality of femininity and being feminine; and is something we are sold and women can use to attract a mate (because let's face it more men are evolutionally speaking more visually wired and aroused initially than women on average- when selecting a mate.)

[Persephone]

Amanda M makes a perfect point about the cost of male stuff.

Each individual, regardless of gender, has feelings of inferiority. To compensate, a woman may buy a new dress, a man may buy a Ferrari, or a woman may buy a Ferrari and a man may buy a dress, doesn't matter. The key is natural competition.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[susan54]

For me, femininity is an act - clothes, make-up, wig, perfume and movements. It is part of the fun. The better the act, the greater the fun. But I never forget I am really a man, and happy to be a man.

[Julie Gaum]

Let's start with the basics: In nature since the dawn of life the male has always been endowed with the brightest plumage, the largest mane, the most sleek coat while the female to this day in the animal, bird and fish world are usually drab. Think SEX. Never in competition for the female of all the species were/are the ones selecting a mate best suited - visually and physically --- to father the brood. Then along comes the homo sapien, in Egyptian days, was the male wearing cosmetics, later, in the Courts of Europe, the gentry/nobility wore the finest silks. In more recent centuries --- only in parts of our world--- the female human, in numbers almost in equal proportion to the male --- found that to procreate they had to stand out from other females and the race to be able to do that began. In recent times, since the industrial revolution in England set the pace, the opportunity presented itself for huge industries to spring up furnishing at every price level the latest fashions in clothing, cosmetics, and so on. Procreation soon became only one reason (though a few religions would like it to remain that way) to attract the male; sex purely for fun, financial support, and that undefined attraction we call "love" were/are new motivations, among others, to find a mate. The female also has an inbred weapon, call it the XX chromosome, that special mental wiring, the instincts bred or passed on by mother --- femininity. The CDs since early days to the present --- and now with far greater resources --- are trying mightily to catch up but not for the historic reasons. Damn that was long winded!
Julie

[MssHyde]

I've spend about 1k in the last month on god knows what, and I don't seem to have anything to wear for tomorrow!

thats funny, it sounds like me

[Pinky188]

Femmininity is an attitude. It comes from within. You can't buy that! You just have to own it!!!

[NicoleScott]

No sales pitches for men? What about Rolex watches, Ferraris (I have two!) Gucci loafers, Armani suits (my wardrobe is full of them, crammed in beside my Jimmy Choos and my Lana Marks handbags.

Plenty of sales pitches for men's products, even for those of us who drive Fords and shop at Walmart. Exercise machines, supplements, trucks, sports gear, grilling stuff (that's a MAN'S job), Axe, Right Guard, Old Spice, beer (stay thirsty, my friends), etc. etc. etc.

[suchacutie]

The cosmetics industry for men is in its infancy but growing quickly.

On the other side of this, after eight years of doing everything I could, supposedly for Tina, to improve my skin, my wife thinks I've taken 10 years off my appearance. There are benefits from all this effort we make and dollars we spend. Also, makeup well applied can make a tremendous effect so it's more than worth it all. I predict that as more influential men realize the benefits and potential income from endorsements, the male industry in looking better will be huge.

[jack-sparrow]

The thing I've noticed is that although advertising and selling to men in the mainstream does work, men are reluctant to spend money on clothes or designer brands but probably prefer to spend money on big boys toys (consumer tech, cars) or if you've got deep pockets maybe housing and property.

This is probably going off-topic but it does raise questions about how people choose to live in terms of what it means to be feminine or masculine.

[jennyluvly]

The thing I've noticed is that although advertising and selling to men in the mainstream does work, men are reluctant to spend money on clothes or designer brands but probably prefer to spend money on big boys toys (consumer tech, cars) or if you've got deep pockets maybe housing and property.

This is probably going off-topic but it does raise questions about how people choose to live in terms of what it means to be feminine or masculine.

True. It's purely target advertising, such as giant tvs, sound system, computers & cars etc (i.e. boy toys) for the male population, whereas personal beauty & refinement are target to the female population. No matter, its still very expensive to be a woman! And as Tawne's post said it so perfectly, "I don't seem to have anything to wear for tomorrow!"

[Erica Marie]

I think marketing for men is more geared towards what they do not what they wear. For men being manly is buying that new Lund boat, going to Home Depot and buying the best Milwaukee tools available, going to Bass Pro and getting all their latest hunting equipment and Under armor camo. Companies make more off the guys than they will ever selling $9.00 lipstick. It goes both ways just in a little different form.
As for us cders we take our hard earned tool money and use it to buy new wigs, forms and clothing. Primetime tv just doesnt advertise for that. Could you imagine half way through the first quarter of the super bowl and ad for breastforms?

[sometimes_miss]

It's not just exploiting women's insecurities. Women compete for successful male mates, so they do whatever they have to in order to get them.

Why do men go to such great lengths and physical work to make more money and/or succeed at sports? Because we get a better pick of women.

Everything we do, we initially do for food, shelter or sex. Other forms of fun come later. Men and women pursue the same, but in different ways. Neither is harder, or easier than the other. Just different.

As far as it being very expensive to be a woman, consider that for the most part, it's the guy who pays the way socially the vast majority of the time. And one date costs way more than any cosmetic use costs for a woman. As far as her desire to buy expensive outfits, jewelry and shoes, that's her own foolishness, because a hot woman looks hot even in Kmart outfits, she doesn't have to buy designer stuff, and I don't know any guys who get turned on by a necklace, earrings or bracelet. Women place far too much emphasis on their 'decorations'. A woman in good physical shape (read that: NOT FAT) wearing torn shorts and a t shirt is way more attractive than a fat ugly one with bad hair who clearly doesn't care about her body despite her wearing $10,000 worth of attire. It doesn't cost a ton of money for a woman to look good to a man.

[linda allen]

Femininity doesn't come out of a bottle, it's not what you wear, it's not what perfume you use, it's not how you look, it comes from inside and that costs nothing.

That is certainly true. Making a male look feminine can be difficult and expensive though. ;)

[jack-sparrow]

It's not just exploiting women's insecurities. Women compete for successful male mates, so they do whatever they have to in order to get them.

Why do men go to such great lengths and physical work to make more money and/or succeed at sports? Because we get a better pick of women.

Everything we do, we initially do for food, shelter or sex. Other forms of fun come later. Men and women pursue the same, but in different ways. Neither is harder, or easier than the other. Just different.

As far as it being very expensive to be a woman, consider that for the most part, it's the guy who pays the way socially the vast majority of the time. And one date costs way more than any cosmetic use costs for a woman. As far as her desire to buy expensive outfits, jewelry and shoes, that's her own foolishness, because a hot woman looks hot even in Kmart outfits, she doesn't have to buy designer stuff, and I don't know any guys who get turned on by a necklace, earrings or bracelet. Women place far too much emphasis on their 'decorations'. A woman in good physical shape (read that: NOT FAT) wearing torn shorts and a t shirt is way more attractive than a fat ugly one with bad hair who clearly doesn't care about her body despite her wearing $10,000 worth of attire. It doesn't cost a ton of money for a woman to look good to a man.

Sometimes I feel people prefer shallowness over acceptance of others, it's a lot easier to mock/put someone down than it is to encourage or support them about who they are on the inside, I agree that women in particular place too much importance on the outside and they never really focus on the important mental/emotional issues somebody has. I suppose if people fixed their inside problems more often then they wouldn't concern themselves that much on the outside problems, which is why I posted this thread because I've never really understood the financial and emotional/mental expenses of femininity. In my opinion the most beautiful women I've seen are actually probably the least desirable of the bunch, the fuller figure women (maybe also known as big beautiful women) I'm in awe of them and sometimes even making me fluster inside.

And I felt this has a little to do with CDing, like spending money on anything that's expensive.

[sometimes_miss]

Sometimes I feel people prefer shallowness over acceptance of others, it's a lot easier to mock/put someone down than it is to encourage or support them about who they are on the inside, I agree that women in particular place too much importance on the outside and they never really focus on the important mental/emotional issues somebody has. I suppose if people fixed their inside problems more often then they wouldn't concern themselves that much on the outside problems, which is why I posted this thread because I've never really understood the financial and emotional/mental expenses of femininity. In my opinion the most beautiful women I've seen are actually probably the least desirable of the bunch, the fuller figure women (maybe also known as big beautiful women) I'm in awe of them and sometimes even making me fluster inside.

And I felt this has a little to do with CDing, like spending money on anything that's expensive.

One thing I forgot to add; I've seen lots of women go about the whole routine of wearing drastically different outfits, changing their hair color and style, all in an effort to attract a particular guy. And yet, he still wasn't interested. Because despite our being primarily visually attracted to a woman, if her personality sucks, no visual changes in the world are going to make her attractive to us. I have yet to find a polite way of saying, "Maybe he just really doesn't like you, and it has nothing to do with your appearance".

[Karren H]

So we're really not crossdressers..... we're over achieving consumers.... and since there's so little male products to buy.... we turned to female products?

[Tina_gm]

I think there is more that is offered that is expensive when it comes to women's clothes, accessories and make up, but you can go cheap and get some good stuff as well. There are stores where men can purchase very expensive clothing and accessories. Coach has a mens section, not a large one for the store, but omg I could not believe some of the prices for wallets, and stuff.

[jack-sparrow]

So we're really not crossdressers..... we're over achieving consumers.... and since there's so little male products to buy.... we turned to female products?

That wasn't what I meant, but I always ask myself about this and that...whatever it might be I'm always curious about things and the reasons why people do what they do.

[jack-sparrow]

One thing I forgot to add; I've seen lots of women go about the whole routine of wearing drastically different outfits, changing their hair color and style, all in an effort to attract a particular guy. And yet, he still wasn't interested. Because despite our being primarily visually attracted to a woman, if her personality sucks, no visual changes in the world are going to make her attractive to us. I have yet to find a polite way of saying, "Maybe he just really doesn't like you, and it has nothing to do with your appearance".

If a woman ever bothered with me that is....haha