Court appearance - out myself, or not?

[PaulaQ]

It's looking more and more like I'm going to have to evict the person renting my house. I'll need to make two appearances in the court, one to file the petition for possession of the property, and one for a hearing in front of a judge to evict the tenant.

All this stuff (the renter, problems with them, etc.) started before I was out to *anyone*. Now I absolutely don't give a crap what the renter thinks - he's a d-bag and this'll be the third suit I've filed on him, and this time, I ain't settling. He's history unless he gets me money before I file the suit.

On the one hand, my preference would be to show up presenting as female, and even though I'd have to use my legal name (haven't changed it yet - it's still early days...), I'd feel a lot more comfortable at the proceedings.

On the other hand, this could prove to be a distraction on what is otherwise a pretty straightforward case. (He's been late paying the rent - a LOT. I've had to file suit on him two other times because of this. We're done here - we want the house back, he can go find someplace else to live.)

I'll ask my lawyer about it - I'm not out to him yet either, there just hasn't been a need yet, but I guess there is now.

- OR -

I can just suck it up, and put on the guy mask for a few more hours. I hate this. I'm not totally sure I CAN do it. (I'd better be able to - I have to do it for my son's wedding in a few weeks.) I don't want to do it - but I also don't want to give this d-bag tenant and his sleaze lawyer any wiggle room with the judge. (It's a JP court.)

Part of me wants to prove I can do this as a woman, since I'm fulltime now. Another part of me thinks it isn't worth jeopardizing a really simple case against this peckerhead to prove a point to myself.

I dunno, what do y'all think? What would you do?

[Nigella]

... I can do this as a woman, since I'm fulltime now.

There is your answer :)

[arbon]

Full time is full time.

But I will say going to court as a woman while still having to go by your old name can get you a few stares and giggles from others in the court - I did that for jury duty lol

[PaulaQ]

Giggles I don't care about. Giving this jerk wiggle room to defer payment for another month or two because I had to reschedule the court date because their lawyer requires proof that I'm really ME is another matter. Oh yeah, also, my wife will probably have to show up at this stupid hearing - that is another wrinkle.

Well, I'll talk to my attorney so he doesn't have a heart attack when he sees me. I'll also see if I can get the suit filed while presenting female. (If I can't, then I guess that's my answer.)

I'm a lot more nervous about this guy using sleazy lawyer tricks - which he's done quite adeptly so far - than I am about outing myself in court. I don't really give a crap what they think - I just want my money or my house back.

Unfinished business is annoying. :|

[Badtranny]

Full time means full time.

BUT

There are no rules in this game. You're just a few weeks into HRT and your transition was rather abrupt so why does there need to be an arbitrary line?

A gender transition changes so many things in your life that living full time will come organically and need not be forced by the calendar. You will be full time someday one way or another but if you can legally pass as a man with just a clothing change than why not take advantage of it?

I was one of those "except at work" types for a year while I was openly transitioning and I went "full-time" after FFS and a BA. I didn't have any choice after that. I would be a very odd looking man at this point not to mention every identity document I have all the way to the Birth Certificate has been changed so going to court as a man would be ill advised.

Back when I was still presenting as a man professionally, I would have had no problem handling your situation as a man. It's your transition right? Do it your way.

[arbon]

BT is right Paula, there is not rule you need to follow, you should do what seems the most comfortable to you.

[vallerie lacy]

Paula
Sorry to hear of your d-bag tenant. If it were me, I'd man-up, only because it's a courtroom. I think we've all seen what morons some of these judges are. And because they wear a robe they think they can ,and do, get away with anything they want. Hope all works out in your favor and satisfaction

[Jorja]

Wait a darn minute...... it clearly says in the transsexual handbook on page 44......... ! Just kidding.:)

As the others have said there are no rules. Do not be like our President drawing red lines to cross. Do what you must do Paula with as little or no attention being brought upon yourself.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks for all the advice - I'm trying weigh what's comfortable (female presentation, by lots) with what's smart (pretending nothing's changed, male appearance.)

It'd serve my lawyer right though, if I showed up as female and didn't tell him. First time I went to his office, he had his twin brother come out and meet me. I'd met my lawyer in court before, but I didn't know he had an identical twin. So I'm talking to who I think is my lawyer, and he OBVIOUSLY has no idea who I am! When my attorney came out of his office, I was so surprised. They had a good laugh about it. Maybe it's my turn for a laugh - lol.

[linda allen]

Ask your lawyer. Take his advice. My opinion - if you are legally a male, go as a male. You don't need any distractions and you don't want to take the chance of offending the judge.

[sandra-leigh]

What does it take for you to feel sufficiently female in your 24/7 ? Slacks, top, light makeup, earrings... and what? D-cup forms, or would A-cup do for the day?

[MatildaJ.]

Ask your lawyer. Take his advice.

Exactly. Just like you would tell a doctor about your gender situation before any kind of serious treatment, you should tell your lawyer all pertinent details (including how difficult it will be for you to concentrate dressed as a guy, if that's the case) and follow his advice.

[Chickhe]

If you are so early on...then some things are more important than feeling good. Going to court is not a feel good thing. You want to go there and appear to be as normal and confident as possible. If there is anything unusual about you, it can tip the balance. Remember, this guy is going to polish himself up and try to make you look bad, so you don't want to help him even if its not true.

[Persephone]

I'd have to use my legal name (haven't changed it yet

There is your answer :(

Hugs,
Persephone.

[stefan37]

You can go however you feel comfortable. If I was going to court this early in your transition and my legal name was still male I would go as a male. I would want to feel as comfortable as possible and presenting as female with a male name would make me uncomfortable.

[TeresaL]

Dodge the bullets.

[Aprilrain]

If I were you I would go as a guy until I changed my name.

[Michelle55]

You want as much as possible in this case to be about the other guy and not about you. Since your name and ID is still male, I'd suggest going as a man is better.

[I Am Paula]

As much as I say that going drab is just stepping back into the lie, most of us who are in the process of getting our I.D. and name etc. together, still have to step into male mode sometimes. This may be the one.
At a wedding a few weeks ago I managed to pull it off wearing all women's clothes, too much jewellery , and my regular hairstyle in guy mode. Basically me, without boobs or makeup. An entire wedding in guy mode would have raised my anxiety to very uncomfortable levels. If drab causes you a lot of discomfort it may be worth a try.
Good luck, what ever you may choose.

[Niya W]

When I went before an admin law judge as Niya, it confused my ex employer. I was fighting for unemployment and they made an appearance by phone. After the third time the admin judge called me she, the employer got the hint and stopped using male pronouns.

[Kimberly Kael]

I tend to agree with the "ask your lawyer" sentiment. I'm also an advocate of finding your own path and not worrying about arbitrary rules, but you do need to consider the reasons for recommending a true Real Life Experience. A huge part of learning to live as a woman is not falling back on male privilege when the going gets tough. Would it be valuable to you, personally, to have the experience of succeeding in this endeavor as a woman?

[Angela Campbell]

I have to go with defer to the lawyer. He knows the courts and how they will react. In theory it should not matter what you look like, but we do live in the real world. If you want to win follow the lawyers advice.

[Di]

If it will not cause you too much discomfort I would say not to chance it make sure this case to be about the renter and not about you. Since your name and ID is still male even more so.

[S. Lisa Smith]

Do whatever your lawyer says. You hired him, take his advice.

[abigailf]

... Another part of me thinks it isn't worth jeopardizing a really simple case against this peckerhead to prove a point to myself.


I'm thinking come out to your lawyer first. However, if you are full time then you are full time. Dress however you want but just remember you are Paula.

My suggestion is to go as Paula, but I am about transgender awareness and will always suggest that.

[Badtranny]

Would it be valuable to you, personally, to have the experience of succeeding in this endeavor as a woman?

She is still legally a male. She is NOT full time because her legal name makes that impossible. She is a full time crossdresser right now which is what we ALL were before that name change. There is nothing to be gained with going to the hearing crossdressed. Who really cares what she FEELS like? The judge is going to look at the documents then look up at her and see a man who is dressed as a woman. This is reality.

Paula will have fewer options after the name change and certainly after some feminization surgery, but right now she can put on a suit and pass 100% as a man, with the added bonus that all of her documents match her male presentation.

This is a no brainer to me, but then again I tend to be rather pragmatic about these issues. There aren't enough words to convince me to do something I don't want to do, but since Paula is asking (something I wouldn't do) my advice is; Don't make things harder on yourself for no good reason.

Some people here may give you a hard time for it but who gives a damn what somebody who may not even be a real person thinks? You are not far enough into your transition to bother with these ridiculous distinctions. You will not always have the luxury of pretending to be a dude, so do it while you can. This isn't a game, this is life and life is hard enough without stupid imaginary rules.

[Nicole Erin]

So basically if paula shows up as a woman then it will excuse the tenant from being constantly late with rent?
Who knows how the courts feel about TG, but one thing they DO seem to hate are deadbeats.
They have to be careful about discrimination (like for TG) but they seem to enjoy having a field day with some dead beat.
What is the tenant gonna say? "Why should I pay rent when my landlord dresses as a woman?" eah maybe not.

Paula if you do go to court dressed as a woman, just make real sure you look professional (slacks, non-revealing blouse, flats or low heels) and not like hoochie the clown.

They are right though that once you get a name change, going full time is more practical.

[PaulaQ]

She is still legally a male. She is NOT full time because her legal name makes that impossible. She is a full time crossdresser right now which is what we ALL were before that name change. ... Who really cares what she FEELS like? The judge is going to look at the documents then look up at her and see a man who is dressed as a woman. This is reality.

Do you mean name change, or gender marker change? Gender marker change requires surgery in Texas. With a name change, I'm a male named Paula, so I'm not sure how that would change much, but I'm still trying to figure this all out. To get a gender marker change here, I have to have at least an orchi. I'd thought about putting off the legal name change for a while, mostly to avoid coming out at work. (I work remotely, so literally, they could be the LAST people to know.) However, I may have to come out earlier than planned - but that's a topic for another thread. But yeah, anyway, best case, it'll be a few months minimum before I'd consider a legal name change. (At minimum, I'll wait for my divorce and settling some other property matters so that my legal / financial situation isn't total chaos.)


So basically if paula shows up as a woman then it will excuse the tenant from being constantly late with rent?
Who knows how the courts feel about TG, but one thing they DO seem to hate are deadbeats.

Actually what the courts here hate is throwing people out of their homes. So the scenario I am worried about goes like this:
- I show up presenting as female
- tenant & lawyer show up with back rent
- My tenant's lawyer is on the ball, and spends a bunch of time in front of the JP bullshitting about my appearance - doesn't matter if what he says has merit, he just wastes time, and points out "look - it has it's money now!"
- Judge decides "FML, I have other cases, this is weird, and the weirdo has his/her money now", and dismisses my plea for eviction

I don't expect the JP to violate the law - but they are elected, I believe the one I'll see is a Republican in a conservative district. He'll follow the law, but if I have my money, he doesn't have to listen favorably to my pleading that the tenant has put me through this crap 3-4 times already in the past 12 months.

As an aside - I'm interested too in y'all's view of what "fulltime" means. If my job won't screw with me, I'd be plenty to happy get a name change, mainly because outing myself constantly and keeping track of "this was old business under my male name / this is new business, under my female name", and figuring out "ok, how do I answer the for this call?" is really a pain in the neck, to put it mildly.

I know Melissa's point about being "pragmatic" is right on - right now it makes sense to just dodge the whole issue and put on the guy suit. All I can say is that this is hard for me to do emotionally, and I take this all seriously enough that I don't want to have to fall back on that. Thus, my dilemma.

I appreciate all of your opinions on this. Trying to sort out the smart thing from what feels right is hard. I've only been presenting female all the time for 2 1/2 months. I've been on HRT for 3 weeks now. (I'm not even all the way there on that yet - anti-androgens are next month.) I'm not doing any of this in the right order, and there are my plans (slapdash as they are), and then there's what reality is throwing at me, lol.

[ReineD]

I'm with the others, Paula ... defer to your lawyer who, unless he is a GLBTQ advocate, will likely advise you to go as a man. There's no need to complicate a case with information that has no bearing on it.

I can't think of anyone for whom full-time public transition happened overnight. It's a process and it is realistic to believe that it will take time to wind up some issues. You will come out to everyone in due time and then you can go everywhere as yourself.

[bas1985]

just my 2c.

I went to my lawyer's (a "she" lawyer) office one week ago to discuss things about the court appearance for divorce. I went to her in boy mode, because I did not want to scare her about my plan to transition.

I was totally male but as soon as I entered the room she said "well, what's different with you?". She immediately sensed that I was different, even if completely male dressed and with my old voice.

So I think that as long as you are full time, the "radiance" you emit is sensed even when you return temporary to male.

[dreamer_2.0]

I'm inclined to side with others and Bad Tranny here. Speak with your lawyer first.

We've spoken before, Paula, I know how uncomfortable you feel as male but, as others have said, you're still very early into your transition. You may see yourself as a woman now but those in the courtroom may think otherwise and not take you seriously. One day, perhaps yes, but I'm concerned we're not there yet. Bad Tranny is likely right, legally you're still male and presenting otherwise could sadly be a disservice to you. I don't think it's worth taking a risk here.

My comments here are mostly based in fear as that's the world I live in and I'm hardly one to offer advice having not begun the road you, and perhaps everyone else in this thread, are on. But I do truly, deeply believe that despite your internal struggle and all of us wanting a better world for trans folk, it's probably best to suit up and be a man for this. I'm sorry for saying that...

[PaulaQ]

OK, I think the way this will go down is like this:
1. To provide notice to my tenant, I'll show up presenting as female. If they don't like it, they can give me money and make me go away.
2. For the court filing, I'll appear in guy mode early next week. I need to go for an electrolysis consult anyway, so I'll grow my beard out a few days anyway for that. I'll feel shitty anyway, I need to get started with electrolysis though, so may as well kill two birds with one horrible day.
3. For the hearing, I'll go in guy mode. You are all right - it's not worth the risk and it's early days yet. It'll be a sucky day, hopefully one of the last ones I have.

Have I mentioned lately, how much I dislike being a guy?

[stefan37]

Yeah you did mention how you hated being a guy. Well you still have a male name and you have a beard. It is hard enough going fulltime without those 2 elements still in play. How do you think you feel as you start to present fulltime, but need to go around with 3-5 days beard growth? Living as yourself in your home and social events in the evening is much different than living out in daylight and in the public eye. Do yourself a favor and go to court as a male. It will be what 4-8 hours of your time?
There is just so much more to this transition stuff than putting on a dress and makeup. I do not know when you started facial hair removal, but in my may case I have been going over 18 months for 3 hours a week. I still have some small patches. They are small light enough, I feel comfortable walking around with them. If you are just starting you will have substantial beard growth for the tech to remove it. It is great we all want to move quickly, but the one trait absolutely needed (which I lack myself) is patience.
Transition is a very, very, long process. It has to flow gradually and naturally. It takes a long time, no sense rushing it unnecessarily. Stay motivated and you will reach your goal successfully, rush it and you can still reach your goal, but the difficulty and distress you receive while getting there can cause much undue stress.

[mary something]

Do whatever you need to do to accomplish the task at hand, namely getting reimbursed the debt you are owed and hopefully an eviction. Why do anything to diminish your credibility in front of the judge? Why not dress in an androgynous manner that doesn't really gender you either way?

[Kimberly Kael]

She is still legally a male.

It's something of a tangent here, but it's worth noting for other situations that there really isn't such a thing as a legal gender. That's part of the wonderfully complicated reality that we live that you can have a gender neutral name, a driver's license that lists you as female, and a passport that says otherwise. At the end of the day, your gender is what a judge decides it is for the purpose of a given situation — subject to appeal with another court. It's an ugly, complicated mess.


She is NOT full time because her legal name makes that impossible. She is a full time crossdresser right now which is what we ALL were before that name change.

Semantics and broad brush strokes aren't all that helpful here ... and incidentally, my legal name change came months before I was full-time. We each follow our own unique path for our own reasons.


There is nothing to be gained with going to the hearing crossdressed. Who really cares what she FEELS like?

I care and obviously she cares at some level or she wouldn't have posed the question. The judge won't care about her feelings and, presuming some level of judicial competence, how Paula is dressed will be similarly irrelevant when considering the facts of the case.

Feelings aside, the most practical thing for all of us is to simply live in our assigned gender. Anyone who transition sets practicality aside at some point. Barring a jury trial, a court isn't necessarily a bad place to do so. I would still trust a lawyer's advice on the subject one way or another in the early days when my presentation was flexible.

[Nicole Erin]

Hang on a second. So in Texas they hate when landlords throw people out of their homes? The same state that executes criminals as if they were not even human? F that....
If you are gonna be in the real estate business, move to Indiana. Landlords here LOVE to evict. They dance around and giggle like 4 year old little girls when they have the pleasure of throwing people out of their homes.

Supposedly the courts here do not mind cause properties get away with it all the time. I lived in one place where they would not evict a whole family but say that ONE member was no longer allowed to live here. One time it was a father and son, the son (13) was a trouble maker and they told the dad that he could stay but his son had to go. Not sure how that went, it was after we (me, my ex, and son) had already left. Another time it was the head of household.
Ehh that neighborhood f'in sucked **** anyways.

Anyways if you are so worried than just go as male. I mean what would you have to gain by going as a woman if your name isn't at least something femme? Going to court for about anything sucks to begin with. Once you have the name change and are full time (passable or not) then you can pretty much do what you want.

[PaulaQ]

I mean what would you have to gain by going as a woman if your name isn't at least something femme?

I haven't done anything in guy mode, ANYTHING, in 2 months. I go everywhere presenting as female. If I go without makeup, I don't pass. (Faint beard shadow >>>> fake boobs.) I tell people "I'm Paula." If I have to transact business, that requires ID and stuff, I have to use my legal male name, but I make sure and give them a subtle hint "BUT YOU CAN CALL ME 'PAULA'!!!!" ;)

But yeah, court stuff is kind of a special case. I'll have a couple more in the upcoming weeks. (a minor surgical procedure, an electrolysis consult at E3K, and a wedding.) The minor surgical procedure, I'm sure I'll just wear girl stuff without forms / wig. Sadly, I'll probably need a couple of these, and they aren't really trans related. For the E3K consult, I'm thinking I can combine several things that are really easier to do in guy mode on a day when presenting female won't be very easy, because I'll have 2-3 days of beard growth. (I'll file the court proceeding, and get my actual hair cut, which it needs.) The wedding, what can I say, I can't avoid this, it's my son, and I can't present female for it, mostly because of how badly people will treat my son. So as much as I'd rather take a belt sander to my face, I'll go as a dude for that. FML, as they say.

Switching back to guy mode feels like cheating, and it's uncomfortable. I'm not afraid of the outside world - at all - which rationally I know in some instances is NOT the correct emotional response. Hence this thread.

I'm finding that being almost completely unconcerned with what other people think about me has it's own special problems - namely the chance that in my fearlessness, I'll do something spectacularly dumb, and make life much harder than it needs to be later. I have a friend in Tulsa who was the same way - and she's paying for it in some respects now. It's a good lesson - but hard, because emotional me is WAY stupider than intellectual me. :)

Starting out is hard, right?

[Persephone]

Switching back to guy mode feels like cheating, and it's uncomfortable.

Totally understand that one! Just went through a couple of days "en drab" myself in a location where I am typically en femme and hated it.

But the legal system is based on the whims and caprices of judges who often consider little pieces of paper to be more important than the person in front of them and they don't like being confused, it diminishes their own mental complex of thinking of themselves as The Great And Powerful Oz.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Nicole Brown]

I totally agree with the advice you have already been provided with which suggests discussing this issue with your attorney prior to making any decisions. I do however find it interesting that no one has questioned if there are any laws on the books in your area which protect gender expression. I would find it very interesting to know if legally the courts could hold it against you if you appeared in court and presented as your target gender.

I know that here in New Jersey there are existing laws which protect us from gender discrimination. I have been living as a woman full time for nearly 3 months now as part of my RLE and my attorney has encouraged me to appear in court, when necessary, as my target gender. Technically, any actions taken against me for presenting as a female, is against the law, according to my attorney.

[melissaK]

As a litigator, I want life as simple for the trier of fact as possible.
I assume the worst will happen and prepare a response.
I assume the tenant will come in lying about everything that could possibly get them more time living in my clients property for free under the jurisdictions law.
In that case my client may have to testify.
if my client testifies their credibility is at issue.
TG discrimination/prejudice is what it is, and it's REAL.
I tell all my clients to dress to avoid being prejudged on appearance (clean affordable casual business clothes, suit or uniform only if its what they wear to work, no visible tats, no expensive jewelry, no perfume, minimal make-up, get a haircut/style, etc),
OR if they ignore me and dress however they want, they should be prepared to deal with the wild card(s) that they are bringing to the table, and to accept the possible negative results.
No outcome is ever 100% certain - too many variables.

(Disclaimer: this was general legal advice. I don't know your case. I am not licensed in your jurisdiction and have no idea of its unique rules or the local community's customs and practices. Get legal advice for your particular case if you need it).

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Everything matters..
you can't avoid the deep internal feeling you have about this..you are a real and valid woman
and you can't avoid the realities of the legal system in your state...

you have to be pragmatic and goal oriented just like any other woman should be... if a gal in texas could show up as a guy and get a better court outcome, I bet she'd think about doing it... that's really all you are doing..

touchy feeling is not the order of the day... arguing over gender politics and semantics is not going to help...Melissa and Melissa's points are right...

You simply CANNOT presume that the judge will be competent or that the court will be unaffected by your unique nature, you cannot presume legal protections will prevent bad behavior...

...your life is much better if this court thing works out in your favor, so go do your best to make that happen...

of course its possible that you go dressed and everything works out...maybe even likely!!!
but it's naïve to think you don't have a better chance for a good outcome if you go presenting as your legal name and gender..

i'm sorry you are going through this!!!

get your court shit done, and then you may have to work hard to deal with the internal fallout of going through this as a guy...in my own life, I like to use crappy uncontrollable situations as fuel to avoid them in the future...use it as motivation to get the next steps done so you never have to deal with this again, or use the feelings you are having now as data points in your transition and a guidepost that can help you further solidify your decisions around your gender and transition.

[Raychel]

Sometimes in life things work out best one way or the other.
Not always the fun way. Sometimes you just have to suck it up for a while to get the outcome you want.

If you think dressing one way or the other will help the outcome, then that is what you should do.
it is only a few hours and after that life can resume the way you like.

Just my thoughts.......