Interesting Transition

[Aunt Peg]

I am posting a link to a website that describes a transition by a person who used alot of hypnosis for changes. I found it very interesting.

http://geocities.com/primaelgen/archive/shaping/shaping-2005-09-27.html

[DanaJ]

Sorry, I am dubious about this. The person basically "wished" himself into a male-female transition? If only it were that easy.....

[Aunt Peg]

Sorry, I am dubious about this. The person basically "wished" himself into a male-female transition? If only it were that easy.....

I do understand. I am just very interested in hypnosis. For what it's worth here is a link to many university studies that site proof of breast enlargement thru hypnosis.

http://www.wendi.com/html/breast_research.html

[DanaJ]

After re-reading this, I see nothing in here about hypnosis. And, this person claims he made himself 2 inches shorter and made his feet grow 2 sizes smaller, just by "visualizing" it. Where did the extra bone and flesh go?

[JoAnnDallas]

Having been in NASA Medical, it is a know fact that calicum does migrate from the bones in extended weightlessness or extended bed rest, but it doesn't make bones shorter, just more brittle.

[Rachel_740]

I am posting a link to a website that describes a transition by a person who used alot of hypnosis for changes. I found it very interesting.

http://geocities.com/primaelgen/archive/shaping/shaping-2005-09-27.html

I've just clicked on this link and the site is unavailable at present. However, my immediate reaction is that (from the VERY little I know or understand of hypnosis) there is no way I would use hypnosis as a means of making ANY changes towards transition, because IMHO hypnosis is only a means of deceiving the mind, and so a person can be given any state of mind that the hypnotist wishes to give them. I cannot see how it could be used as a legitimate and effective tool towards transition - and certainly not towards physical change.

Anne

[ReginaK]

If the geocities link goes down, here is a link to the original post.
http://www.livejournal.com/community/trans_magic/10810.html


I haven't read it yet, but I try to keep an open mind. I've seen people claim weirder things.

[DanaJ]

I wonder - if just wishing to transition from male to female works, wow! I could wish myself into a head full of hair, or wish away about 40 pounds (without diet or exercise).... :D

[Julie York]

I haven't even read it but if the general gist is right from other people's comments it is a fantasy.

Some of the people on this forum and others have wished to the bottom of their bones, with an intensity beyond prayer, that they were female and it hasn't changed one hair on their bald heads. Not even after 30 years of feeling that way.

[erica12b]

i just wish i had the time , to do half of the things i read here.,,,lol

[Aunt Peg]

I don't claim the website is true or false, I only posted it for reading. But I do know this, I have read many, many books on hypnosis. And in one of the books, the author told a story about how he knocked out a tooth in the front of his mouth, it was an adult tooth. We was so upset. He kept wishing and visualizing that his tooth was back. He went to the dentist and there was a new tooth growing in where the old one was knocked out. It wasn't fully developed, and the dentist had to remove it. So? Maybe it does work.

Did anyone look at the other link that I posted? The university studies on breast enlargement. The mind does affect the body. Every thought you think makes a chemical reaction in your body. You can worry yourself sick, you can think yourself well. It's not voo-doo! It's not deception. You hypnotize yourself everyday. Ever been sitting at a stoplight and the light turns green and you are still sitting there? The person behind you is beeping the horn for you to go. You were deep in trance. What were you telling yourself in trance? Hopefully you were telling yourself what a nice person you are. Because you hypnotized yourself and were giving your inner mind a message.

Anyway, enough lecture about hypnosis. I don't want to get into a big debate about it. It doesn't work for eveyone. The medicine your doctor hands out doesn't work for everyone. Sitting around wishing something would change usually doesn't bring the change. I did listen to a hypnotic recording on breast enlargement. I grew about one cup size and stopped listening. That was enough growth for me.

[Julie York]

I don't claim the website is true or false, I only posted it for reading. But I do know this, I have read many, many books on hypnosis. And in one of the books, the author told a story about how he knocked out a tooth in the front of his mouth, it was an adult tooth. We was so upset. He kept wishing and visualizing that his tooth was back. He went to the dentist and there was a new tooth growing in where the old one was knocked out. It wasn't fully developed, and the dentist had to remove it. So? Maybe it does work.

Did anyone look at the other link that I posted? The university studies on breast enlargement. The mind does affect the body. Every thought you think makes a chemical reaction in your body. You can worry yourself sick, you can think yourself well. It's not voo-doo! It's not deception. You hypnotize yourself everyday. Ever been sitting at a stoplight and the light turns green and you are still sitting there? The person behind you is beeping the horn for you to go. You were deep in trance. What were you telling yourself in trance? Hopefully you were telling yourself what a nice person you are. Because you hypnotized yourself and were giving your inner mind a message.

Anyway, enough lecture about hypnosis. I don't want to get into a big debate about it. It doesn't work for eveyone. The medicine your doctor hands out doesn't work for everyone. Sitting around wishing something would change usually doesn't bring the change. I did listen to a hypnotic recording on breast enlargement. I grew about one cup size and stopped listening. That was enough growth for me.

I went through a period of great hope and joy, thinking that I could change my life by the power of my mind. I read a LOT of things. I experienced a lot of things.
I want you to remember this post. I want you to remember this moment.
I want you to look back one day and smile as you shake your head.

And if you change the laws of physics by the power of your mind then I will shake my head in wonder too because I've TRIED!

[Aunt Peg]

Other than the short term use of the breast enlargement recording, I use hypnosis recordings for stress relief, relaxation and creativity. At this time I am not at a place in my life where I want to try a full transition aided by hypnosis. I thought that the like to the university studies would have impressed more people, but I guess not. I feel like I'm starting to rub the fur the wrong way here.

[Rikki Elisabeth]

My gawd! You would think a Latin and English major would know if they were correct in spelling the word.

I digress....I have tried to be placed in a trance several times. Unfortunately, I don't give up control easily. I will say that anything is possible. I have gone to bed every night since I was five and prayed that I would awaken in a girl's body. I haven't given up. I still say the same prayer.

Kisses....

[ReginaK]

Every thought you think makes a chemical reaction in your body. You can worry yourself sick, you can think yourself well.

You make an interesting point here. They have linked depression to physical pain, so thoughts can lead to chemical reactions and result in a physical change.

There may be a slight chance it's possible, but I don't believe the results would be as extreme as portrayed in the article. If anything, i'd say it's more likely the "hypnosis" caused a positive change in attitude, which led to the person putting more effort into their femme appearance.

[primaelgen]

You make an interesting point here. They have linked depression to physical pain, so thoughts can lead to chemical reactions and result in a physical change.

There may be a slight chance it's possible, but I don't believe the results would be as extreme as portrayed in the article. If anything, i'd say it's more likely the "hypnosis" caused a positive change in attitude, which led to the person putting more effort into their femme appearance.

I have finally tracked down where my archived page was being linked from. I'm commenting as the archivist for the link mentioned. It was never intended to be posted as "proof" that hypnosis works, but rather as an encouragement for those who are true believers. Having said that, I want to point out a few things.

Bone densities do change. In poking around this forum, I realize that others have posted how hormones can change bone shape and density. This is news to me. However, the shaping of bones through its peizo-electric properties is certainly within the realm of possibility. Dr. Becker, M.D. did a number of studies on the regenerative properties of bone during the 1970s, documented in his book, The Body Electric. He first started the research as a result of noting how bone, though slow growing, were one of the few tissue in the adult human capable of regenerating.

He describes how bone is piezoelectric. This means that adding pressure to the bone creates a electric and electromagnetic changes in the bone. This is how bone grows in response to physical stress. You can see an example of this with the skeletal structure of English longbowmen's shoulders. These were archers who were trained since before puberty to use the longbow, ones many other cultures were incapable of using because their bones cannot handle the draw-weight on the typical longbow. This also works in reverse. An electric current sent through the bone in a certain way will actually increase bone density.

It was from here that Dr. Becker found that certain cells of the bone under very specific microwattages will actually "de-evolve". That is to say, their nuceleus reverts back to a generic cell, from which it can "re-evolve" to a more specialized cell. If this sounds like stem cell research, please note that Dr. Becker demonstrated this in vivo to a live scientific conference back in the late 70s. I won't make claims that he was able to create stem cells through bones, however, this is not out of the question of possibility. The technology he developed to accelerate bone regeneration is still in use in therapy today. This is a silver-mesh lining with microwattages used for extremely difficult-to-heal bone breaks.

Anne Wise has written a book describing EEG research on trance-states. Hypnosis appears to be subjective, however, there are specific, objective measurements that can be taken from them. Wise notes research showing brain activity entering a specific pattern during trance states. She has also noted certain meditators able to reduce the frequency of the brainwaves to zero for an instant -- that is, for a brief moment, the brain functions as a DC rather than an AC electrical system. As reported on CNN recently, it has been shown through modern medical imaging that meditators are able to turn off pain receptors at will, something that chemical agents (such as morphine) introduced into the body as therapy has been unable to effectively work as a treatment for *chronic* pain. (I can personally attest that pain relievers definately work for acute symptoms). Although this was talked about on CNN, the actual research has been ten years in the making. This is not "psychosomatic" in the sense of an unreproduceable symptom resulting from psychological delusions ... it shows that some of these delusions do have real, physical effects. I have not found any conclusive studies that shows a link between biofeedback and creating bone density changes. Since both function through electromagnetic means, it is a hypothesis that is definately worth exploring. (Yes yes, I understand that neural pathways functions electrochemically; recent research are exploring the electromagnetic components of brain function). I make a big deal out of this measurable trance-state because a hypnotic subject requires a trance state in order for hypnotic therapy to work.

Here's where we get into more of the speculative -- psuedo -- science. There are ancient shamanic practices that describes the use of the bone marrow, energizing it to a point where it is freely circulated in the body. I'm translating this to modern terms, but as you can see from Dr. Becker's work, again, it is not out of the realm of possibility. Giving all of this background information I just wrote, it is possible through the trance state to alter or amplify the natural body electric in a way to create peizo-electric effects on bone density and shape. Bone, however, takes a long time to grow and change. This would also require a fairly deep trance state that not everyone can easily achieve overnight. It is a discipline, it requires effort. The major obstacle is that the "ego" has to be removed in order to achieve this trance state, the very "ego" that forms the cross-gender identity. Merely "wishing for it" will not work because trance state has not been achieved. The trance state can be, must be practiced like any other body-motor skill through biofeedback tools such as Wild Divine (wilddivine.com) or entrainment tools such as the HoloSync audio CDs. You can look up research done in sports where training protocols were created for top olympic and professional sports acheiving what is called the "zone".

Note also that the person in the archived posting has a few mental techniques requiring feedback. This is the feedback that author wrote as "burning chi". This is a change in local body temperature at the site where the mental focus is on, an indication of increased metabolism at the local site. This is verifable through objective means.

However, even if you reject the fact that mental processes can create physical changes, Dr. Becker's work clearly shows potential. Someone *can* create a machine using those principles to create cosmetic and bone structural changes through controlled electrical and electrochemical stimulation. Research that conclusively links stem cells and electrically-stimulated bone regeneration can open up regenerative technologies that can be deployed in vivo. Rather than attempting to mutate stem cells -- excuse me, making them "genetically adapted to the target patient" --, you would be using the same genetic material as ... you. That's a whole different ball of wax.

One last note before I go. I reiterate that I never intended for the hypnosis techniques to be released in the mainstream transgendered community . I certainly do not support the idea trying to convince people that hypnosis works, not because it doesn't, but because of the toxic social dynamics.
What do I mean? Consider the transgendered and transsexual community as a whole. How do you prove to someone that you feel a different gender on the inside?

You really can't.

You can point to research, evangalism material, etc. etc. all day, but when you come down to it, you're looking to be validated by people and loved by family and friends. Regardless of whether you have gender dystrophy or not. Finding support to validate this hidden identity that people cannot see is extremely hard. Both gender dystrophy and hypnosis are not something someone can easily see. Someone who has the skill -- and do not mistake yourself, self-hypnosis is a difficult skill to master which some people have natural talent for -- to self-hypnotise their changes have the *additional* burden of finding validation for hypnosis as well as validation for being in the wrong body. This is also why I do not support the use of these hypnosis materials to "convert" the skeptics -- these are tools for people who already have an affinity to hypnosis.

In poking around different sites, I have notice a vocal, hostile minority projecting their anger and resentment at being rejected by people around them onto people who are attempting to self-hypnotise themselves as a way to shape and enhance their body. I don't claim that this particular forum is like this at all. Since this community is largely skeptics, though, I ask you to look carefully at this dynamic of acceptance and rejection -- are the misguided users of hypnosis really that harmful of themselves ... or do you want to bring them into the fold? Maybe hypnosis users are harmless and can be treated as that eccentric relative doing their own thing. Maybe all that hypnosis allows them delusions and build up enough self-confidence to come out, to get serious about therapy.

And besides. Maybe there's something in the hypnosis you can use to help you accept yourself.

PrimaelGen Project

[susiej]

I have notice a vocal, hostile minority projecting their anger and resentment at being rejected by people around them onto people who are attempting to self-hypnotise themselves as a way to shape and enhance their body. I don't claim that this particular forum is like this at all.

Primaelgen's article (as I understand it, her post represents not necessarily her viewpoint, but an article she found somewhere) has several fascinating points, but this one really rings a bell with me.

In the last few days, I have composed -- and deleted -- several posts for this thread, trying to balance my enthusiasm to evangelize hypnosis as a self-feminization tool, against my fear that A) I'll come across as silly or whacko, and/or B) I'll start a pointless argument about whether it "really works" or not.

I hasten to agree with Prima's observation that this forum has been polite and ladylike concerning similar posts I have made in other threads -- thank you all for that!

Elsewhere, however, I have run across the hostile minority that Prima's article describes -- I can't say for certain what the source of the hostility is, but it is sometimes very fierce. My own guess would be that it shakes the world view of someone very grounded in the physical world to discover that something metaphysical like "magick" (the topic which kicked off this thread) might actually exist.

I'm one of those physically-grounded people myself -- it would totally unhinge me to see a ghost, for instance, because such things aren't part of my understanding of how the universe works. But, hypnosis is not magic, much less "magick" -- it is simply a way of getting your brain and your body to do what you want them to do, more often than otherwise.

Lots of people use self-hypnosis for "credible" purposes, like smoking cessation, overcoming premature ejaculation, and fixing the wicked slice in their golf drive. I use it to reinforce feminine habits and feelings. With hypnosis, I have taught myself full-body "O", without the "E", allowing myself to have multiples, just like a real GG. This, I have to tell you, has *really* made the effort worthwhile!

The tough part comes when we hypnosis enthusiasts claim that we get breast enlargement, or other physiological changes. I think I have a half-cup size gain, but of course, I have no control case to make my claim scientific. If I have gotten breast growth through hypnosis, the "magic" is that my body is apparently able to transform itself, subtly, in response to mental stimuli. Hypnosis is merely the way my stimuli happened to be expressed.

I'm willing to stipulate my successes with hypnosis with the qualifier, "I think it worked for me". Conversely, I believe skeptics should be willing to keep an open mind and accept the qualification, "it hasn't worked for me, yet."

As to the hostile minority -- I wonder how many of them have really seen a person deeply hypnotized, or talked with them afterward about it.

BTW, it's really fun :). There is no reason to fear surrender of self-control, or any of that sort of balderdash. If somebody offers to hypnotize you at a party some time, and you're among friends, do it! You'll probably love it.

Hugs, and a happy new year to all,
Susie