People calling me girl, gay, CD, except recently

[Michelle789]

After reading the thread "So... do you really think you're fooling everyone?" http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?201328-So...-do-you-really-think-you-re-fooling-everyone
I've decided to ask another related question. I'm starting a new thread because the question is related, but somewhat off subject. Actually, it's digging into depth on why we do or do not fool others or ourselves.

Like the original thread, this is open to all MTF CD, TG, TS, gender fluid, regardless of what you label yourselves. Cis-gendered people may reply too.

The answer to the question did I "fool" anyone or not is mixed for me. For the most part, people seem to see a bit of underlying femininity in me, and have dropped me subtle hints all my life. These hints come in the form of calling me, directly, a girl, gay, or cross-dresser, or calling me something that implies that I'm a girl, gay, or a cross-dresser, or otherwise somewhat feminine. Examples of implications might be a friend saying "I'll get you a job as a secretary, but you'll have to wear a skirt" or asking me "who's the lucky guy?"

I see that many of us have had experiences like this, while others did not.

There were some exceptions to people noticing and dropping subtle hints of my femininity.

1. I had a friend in college who seemed convinced I was a "man's man". Granted I attempted to act extremely masculine, by drinking and acting like a frat boy. In spite of that most people saw through my cover, dropped hints at me being feminine, and I still couldn't get past the "friend zone" with girls. Yet this one guy seemed to buy it. Maybe he was just being nice to me. Maybe he really was fooled. His mom was not fooled though. Also about 7 years ago he did tell me that my "man's man" cover was me "not being myself".

2. My parents and brother noticed my feminine mannerisms and tendencies as a kid. They all suspected I was gay, in fact my dad was once convinced I was gay...I'm not sure if he still feels that way. They did every attempt to beat anything feminine out of me...not physically but through guilt-tripping. At some point in the past 10 years, they started to be convinced I was a typical "male stoic" and "not very sensitive". It seems weird because I always was oversensitive, and most people definitely noticed that too.

3. The "girl jokes" continued until the end of 2012. For some strange reason, not only did the "girl jokes" stop in January, but I have also become the recipient of "guy jokes", often by the same people who used to make "girl jokes". I feel very resentful anytime someone makes a guy joke. I've had otherwise good days ruined because someone said "you're definitely a guy, you drive like a guy" or "you have the strength of ten men." I don't quite understand the change in attitude, why is everyone suddenly dropping hints of my masculinity after years of dropping hints of my femininity. It really bugs me. I've had very few "girl/gay/CD jokes" in 2013, including a 5 month drought from mid-March to mid-August. The barrage of guy jokes started in January.

Edit to #3: It isn't just the same friends/acquaintences, it's everybody. It's not just one circle, it's a consistent pattern I've had all my life, and it would happen amonst co-workers too. The shift in January happened amongst all circles of friends/acquaintences...everyone isn't conspiring against me...it's as if something about me has changed to the public.

My questions for everyone are:

1. Have you ever experienced #3 above, where people who dropped hints of your femininity suddenly start dropping hints of your masculinity?

2. Why would #3 above happen?

3. Why would #2 above happen, with my parents who suspected me of being gay and too feminine, now see me as more of a typical guy?

4. What about #1 above, the one person who I seemingly fooled, yet I didn't fool his mother?

Edit: I'm not out as a CD, I have never gone out dressed en femme, yet.

[Julie Gaum]

All sorts of possibilities and these are purely guesses --- cxould be completely wrong:
1. That college friend did, eventually, see through your facade as he stated while others knew you were "different" if not exactly in what way.
2. Obviously your family also were not sure how to "label" you as you evidently hid your emotions to an extreme --- hence "stoic" was their latest take.
3. No idea who the people you call " friends" were but were they really friends? Tried to get a rise out of you with the girly jokes and since that didn't work they have not changed their impression of you but now hoping you'll react in a feminine way to the boy jokes. Tell them to knock it off or find new friends and why the H would you allow others to get under your skin in the first place?
A "maybe possible" explanation.
Julie

[Kelly DeWinter]

I am soooooooooooooooooooo confused . This is like a multiple choice test with a essay portion combined. I'm not sure if it's possible to answer.

[Brooklyn]

Hmmm, why do you care so much about what other people think, esp since you never go out en femme? Are you reading too much into casual comments, maybe?

[Rogina B]

I agree with Ashley in that if you aren't out the door,you are thinking way too much about"what others think" Who cares and how is that going to change your life??

[Amy R Lynn]

You are definitely reading too far into all of this. Don't get lost in all of the "what do people think of me" stuff. Be who you are. It sounds to me like everyone is ok with you, as you are.

[Marleena]

Hi Michelle I hope my thread didn't stress you out because it was not my intention. It was only for discussion purposes and as a group we are all over the gender spectrum. I just thought the questions I asked would apply to all of us to some degree. I would guess a good portion of the CDers here don't give off vibes that they are anything but men. They keep their CDing hidden or private (whichever you prefer) because the general population frowns on it or doesn't understand it. They feel it's nobody's business but their own. I was not judging anybody because it doesn't matter. I approached the thread like I was an outsider and was trying to be objective. I just wanted to see how people handled the situation over the years. I kind of regret posting it now.

As far as your friends go they might have sensed you're different and used that to tease you. When that was no fun they changed strategies by saying oh.. you do manly things though.

Some of us do give off vibes through our personalities and movements, looks, etc. that confuse people. I'm one of them and said so in my thread. Some of the people here make visual changes to appear more feminine too and don't care and that's okay. I guess it depends on the person.

[Michelle789]

Marleena, thank you for your response. No, your thread didn't stress me out. I just thought this question was related to your thread, hence why I referenced it.

Btw I kinda regret posting this one too lol.

[Tracii G]

I have some friends we will call group 1 that know both sides of me and some we will call group 2 that suspect I'm a little on the girly side but never tease me about it.They are more respectful and don't pry into my life.
I'm sure they wonder if I may be gay because of the way I dress and my mannerisms.But again they know its none of their business.

[Marleena]

Michelle hopefully we all get to a point where we're comfortable with who we are. It just takes time to get there. I think we're all good people with something to offer.:)

[Nancy Sue]

When I was in junior high and high school the girls were always saying they wished they had my legs, and my eyelashes. They were always offering to trade theirs for mine - which I thought was pretty neat. I never took it that they were calling me feminine, just that I had better legs and eyelashes than they did. In (most) all groups of guys the guys try to be macho, and one of the ways they can do it is by belittling someone else. If you are the one they choose to pick on, they will say whatever they must to try to get a rise out. If they are not getting a response - they will change tactics. Its (probably) not actually about you. And as others have said, why are you worried about what they think anyway?

[Beverley Sims]

As people get to know you and time passes peoples attitudes do polarize.
Then they "give up".
Life gets normal then.

[tiffanyjo89]

Maybe they really did notice girly traits in you, and you have changed, so they changed as well.

Perhaps you've, subconsciously, if not, unconsciously, have closed yourself up and started to push the male side of yourself to the forefront as a way to avoid the "guilt-tripping" from your relatives and ribbing by your "peers" and to actually present a male image, not just one that seems like a facade.

I know, with myself, that I've always felt like a shy person, but I feel that, as I've gotten older, I have started to shut people out, but I only partly blame my CDing. Like, I'll try to get know people, but I never feel like I truly connect to them. I don't know, but I also have kinda always felt an easier connection to females, and, as a way to avoid outing myself to anyone, I have became this twisted version of myself that doesn't even really give comments to people at the risk of sounding like I "know too much". Like, I've always been quiet around strangers and even people I've come to know better, but the way I am about it now, I feel like I have become the "strong, silent type" without seeming to be very strong and sometimes being awkwardly non-silent. I feel like I've became an "awkward goofy mess" in the name of not outing myself. It doesn't help that I have an obsessive personality that is one where I have to know everything about something and a really goofy talkative side to me where I can rattle on like crazy about something plus the awkward shy quiet side that hates talking to people I don't know (and even sometimes hates talking to people I DO know).

If I seem like I am very well put together when it comes to emails and forum posts, it's because I can edit and edit and edit my posts and sometimes not even post things.

[Michelle789]

I'm thinking Tiffany hit it on the nose. I say this because the history of "girl jokes" was so wide spread and came from many groups of friends, peers, co-workers who are all very disconnected. Similarly the "guy jokes" recently have been pretty wide spread amongst different groups of peers too. My family and relatives are all disconnected from my friends and co-workers, I generally do a good job of keeping people separated.

If it was just one distinct group of friends who switched from "girl jokes" to "guy jokes" than the notion that they're trying to get a rise out of me would make more sense. I just find it hard to believe that all these disconnected people would suddenly change their jokes from girl to guy all at the same time, and it's only their trying to get reactions out of me. It seems too much of a coincidence, that it makes more sense something deeper is at play here. I hope I made sense.

And by jokes I don't necessarily mean they're being disrespectful, but rather giving subtle hints of my nature.

Edit: the jokes and hints come from both male and female friends/peers/co-workers. So it can't be all be about being macho.

[MysticLady]

Edit to #3: It isn't just the same friends/acquaintences, it's everybody. It's not just one circle, it's a consistent pattern I've had all my life, and it would happen amonst co-workers too. The shift in January happened amongst all circles of friends/acquaintences...everyone isn't conspiring against me...it's as if something about me has changed to the public.


Hi Michelle. I think, you over worry. Who Cares. If your sensitive and masculine or whatever, don't let others worry you about what they say. They're jus dumb. :straightface:

[jenni_xx]

I went to Secondary School (High School) in the 80s. There I was teased for being gay. I wasn't "out" in any way, nor did I even think I was gay at the time. But the teasing ranged from playful, throw-away remarks, to at times incredibly hurtful ones. A particularly memorable moment was when I walked into a classroom at the beginning of a lesson, sat at my desk, and someone had put an AIDS leaflet on it. When I picked it up to look at it, everybody laughed. Even the teacher raised a smirk. Another time, I started dating a girl, and was supposed to go on a double date with her, her best friend, and her best friend's boyfriend. That ended before it began, because the other guy (who I had never talked to before) said he wouldn't be seen dead with me because I'm gay. One more time stood out, when my friends, clearly trying to teasingly coax a "confession" out of me, said "just admit it, we won't hate you for it".

I never reacted to it all, well, at least tried not to show any reaction. The time with the AIDS leaflet, I just picked it, walked to the bin, threw it away, and sat back down, without saying a word to anyone. But inside I was both fuming and incredibly upset. I couldn't understand why everyone thought I was gay - like I say, at the time I didn't even think I was. I was crossdressing, in secret, and wondered if I gave off some kind of vibe in that respect which people picked up on. It carried on into adult life, although it didn't happen as often. A friend I worked with in a part-time job where I worked in a shop said to me "I could definitely see you being gay". And a group of girls who I knew from school who came into the shop would tease me about it. In my first full time job, it was assumed by the other employees that I was gay right from the start of my employment. Again, it died down, and although I didn't admit to them that I was, I had grown a thicker skin, the accusations didn't bother me (perhaps because I was starting to have doubts about my sexuality, and there wasn't the aura of the accusations being made with any negativity attached, merely acceptance). When I finally did come out, even though I had had girlfriends in the past, let's just say that it wasn't a surprise to anyone.

I often wonder just how perceptive others can be, and just how out-of-touch we can be in regards to ourselves and the "vibes" we give off to others. I was called gay long before I even had any inkling that I was. It could be a coincidence (we can never rule that out). People refer to that as "gaydar". And maybe there is something equivalent for cd's (although people coming to wrong conclusion in respect to the vast majority of cd's by assuming that they are gay). It may be one reason why for many, one of the first questions they are asked after coming out as a cd is "are you gay?". They are picking up a "feminine" vibe of us, and because gay people are more prominent in society than cd's are, that will be the first thing to cross their mind.

[I Am Paula]

I just let people that assume I'm gay think what they want. Gay is something they can grasp. If I start explaining gender to them they get this doe eyed look of complete incomprehension.

[Darla]

I think I grasp where you are and as a self conciliatory person myself tend to read WAY too much into things. Especially comments about gender. But I think I'm a little on the beginning stages of what you describe in that my feminine mannerisms are surfacing and I'm getting the impression that its getting noticed. For example - I got called "miss" as I picked up a free paper from a hawker outside the train station yesterday. I don't look feminine, except for my body type, it's not as if I have long flowing hair or anything. That floored me, and I don't usually get that. Then later on in the day I stepped out for a cup of coffee with a rather attractive female coworker and as we passed Some guy down the street he said "hey ladies". Again - was I wearing eyeshadow? What's up?

Only thing I can think of is that it was a full moon and that somehow the lunar rays are exposing the inner me to people or something.

But calling me a mans man, or thinking I'm masculine? I opened a stuck door for a woman the other day and she said "I guess it takes a man" I didn't have the strength to tell her the only thing opening the door was biological fact testosterone gives me greater muscle mass.

I too care too much about perceptions and it'll drive you nuts. Take the other posters advice and concentrate on other things. All those other fools who teased and bullied you don't deserve a second thought.

Darla