View Full Version : Besides all the clothing stuff...

09-27-2004, 11:19 PM
Alright. I've had an entirely male wardrobe for nearly 10 years, including shoes, belts, wallets, etc. And of course I've got the stuffer and am working on binding and stuff. I've got the mannerisms, walk, sitting (never cross the legs, and if you do, be sure to adjust ;) ), etc. But I'm wondering about other things, such as the adam's apple, build (I'm tall- 5' 9 1/2", but I'm working on my muscles), etc. I've got some ideas for sideburns and stuff that work nicely. I need to work on lowering my voice a bit.
But I'm seriously wondering about testosterone supplements. I don't want a major change; just enough to maybe flatten out my chest a tad, deepen my voice without ruining my ability to sing, maybe make my hands and feet a bit bigger (as they're extremely small-- much too small to really be convincing)-- my feet are fine as I wear big shoes, but the hands can't really be disguised-- maybe widen my jaw out a bit, etc. Is there anything that can make small alterations like this but without completely ****ing me over? Maybe some supplement that I can buy in a health food store or something? Something inexpensive?
I don't want to **** up my singong voice-- that's the most important part-- even though I'd like my voice a bit lower, as it's fairly low to begin with. Can anybody offer me any suggestions? Please? Thanks very much.

09-28-2004, 12:23 AM
Wow!!! Lots of questions!!! Will get back to you on some of this but for now...

Your hands don't have to be big... but they have to be strong and hard. Get one of those hand exercisers (that spring thing) or a tennis ball will do... and use it a lot. It will hurt in the beginning but keep at it.

Adam's Apple... no problem. Men don't really look at each other that much and I never notice one unless it's large and bobs up and down. It's a non-issue.

Start shaving! I know you want to keep your peach fuzz but you will look older if you have stubble instead of fuzz.

Practice making your chest vibrate when you are talking. That's where men talk from... not the throat or nose. Try singing along with Ann Murray or KD Lang or Mary Chapin Carpenter... that may help with your voice. Blues music is very low also. Then... try Johnny Cash!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Not sure about the herbs or testosterone but that is probably a question for a professional to answer.

Oh... and quit moisturizing. Ever notice how men's faces are always dry looking? Well... do it at night only... so you don't get too craggy looking!

And... you said you were doing weights... strength is more masculine than any other feature. Go slow so you don't hurt yourself... but you should eventually be able to sling around 75 lbs without much effort. And don't pick up stuff with both hands... coffee cups, coke cans, books, almost everything... only women do the two handed thing. (I keep trying to remind myself about that!!!) Use your whole hand, not just your finger tips to do stuff... thats why men have callouses... the real men anyway!!! (Gawd... this is getting sexist!!! LOL>>>)

Sheesh... now I feel my testosterone flowing... bummer!!! :o

More soon...

09-28-2004, 05:14 AM
Thanks :)

I'm a musician and a singer, so I sing often and can sing a lot of Billy Joel and David Bowie, etc., which is quite low. But thanks very much about the chest voice advice. I'm doing fairly well with talking, but if I think about talking from the throat that should help. :)
And since I play guitar, I've got lots of callouses and my hands are fairly strong. But no veins. I suppose more weight lifting would help. My problem is I've got a bit of baby fat on my body still, making me look somewhat more delicate and rounded.
I do shave, except my sideburns ;) Not every day as it irritates my face and the fuzz doesn't grow back fast enough to need it. Every few days seems to do it. And since I don't shave my sideburns I can carefully apply a bit of mascara to look like sideburns, or stubble.
I'll have to look around for testosterone stuff, unless anyone on here is highly experienced in it. Should be some good resources online, and I'm not sure what type of professional I should ask anyway.
Right. No moisturising. I am only 18 so I think I can get away with not so much craggyness. Hehe
Weights, good. I have a problem with weights-- have to be extremely careful about the arms because I've got a tendon problem in my shoulders. My legs are naturally very muscular. I life a lot of heavy boxes for work, so I am fairly strong, but my arms are way too skinny and not toned enough. Need to work on that.
Whole hand-- I tend to do that unless something is too heavy, big, or slippery for just one hand.

Thanks for the very good advice :) I will keep it in mind, and hopefully it'll help me out a bit. I've still got a way to go, but I intend to get there eventually!

09-28-2004, 12:23 PM
From a singing point of view. I did a lot of professional singing as I grew up (was in a boys' choir). My voice never really "broke" but eased down from a 1st Soprano down to a Alto. When I left there and stopped singing professionally, I suddenly found myself as a 2nd Tenor / 1st Bass. I never went through this voice cracking stage. But I could still sing just as well as ever - all I had to do was adjust my singing style a bit in terms of breathing and so on. A well trained voice is not going to stop being able to sing because the vocal cords get thicker and longer. I noticed that with most of the guys that I sang with. When they stopped singing, their voices suddenly took the jump :). But they still sang brilliantly.

What I would be concerned with however, is if you still want to straddle both worlds. Then you really need to get you hands on something like "Finding your female voice" so that you can maintain your "current" voice for those times when you need it.

Good luck!

09-29-2004, 01:46 AM
What I'd like is for basically my voice to get deeper, so I could sing and speak lower, but keep my higher range as well. I can sing damn high without falsetto (or head voice), and also fairly low, down to a bass C usually.
Thanks very much for the advice, guys :)

09-29-2004, 11:35 PM
I agree with previous posters. Don't worry about the adams apple or hand size. Nobody (guys at least) is going to notice that. If you are only 18 I would not worry too much about the shaving. Get rid of the peach fuzz, but there are lots of guys who don't have much of a beard at 18. I didn't, and my son who is nearly 17 does not either. Don't worry too much about the sideburns either. I was in my 30's before I could grow presentable facial hair. Even then it was barely presentable. If you are 18 and clean shaven nobody will give a second thought.

Weights would be good for TG passing as well as overall health. Probably should focus on exercises to increase the size of the shoulders and upper arms. Without hormones though I don't think you could develop to the same extent that someone with more testosterone could. That's why professional bodybuilders, male and female, use anabolic steroids. The downside for you is that steroids/hormones would eventually permanently change your voice. I have used some health food supplements to enhance weight lifting in the past with some success. The one that worked best was Yohimbe. I have no idea if it would work for you. The important thing to remember that results from weight lifting do not come fast. Do not expect any real visible results for at least three months. Also, be carefull of supplements that say they will help you build mass. These just have high calories and will make you fat. (I know this from experience :) ) Even if you do not develop big muscles that is not a big problem. Lots of guys at 18 are not real large. Take up running and tell everyone you are a marathoner. Those guys are really skinny.

In the end, as long as you are not exhibiting any physical characteristics (i.e. large breasts) that automatically ID you as female you will be judged by guys by how you act and interact moreso than by how you look. Even your voice is not a problem unless it is really high. Take Mike Tyson for instance. He has a high voice but unless you are blind would not mistake him for a female. I have known all sorts of guys with a wide range of voices, heights, size, etc. and it is all in how you act and interact with the other guys.

Best of wishes,

09-30-2004, 02:20 AM
Thanks very much, Deborah.
I don't have huge tits... Not sure of the size, but I can't get away with wearing any tight t- shirts. And that's bad cos I like to wear things that fit. Although I wear a lot of dress shirts.
I'm wondering if my way of dressing might have something to do with it. I mean, I do dress like a guy, but I wear a lot of classy, businessman- type things. And that's not 18- year- old material. But I don't wanna alter my appearance. I like being unique. Still, everywhere I go people tend to call me "miss". And that annoys me. I mean, I've got short, definitely guy- style hair (about 2" on top and 1" in the back, layered, spikey, messy, and dyed blond), guy earrings (screws, small hoops, studs, etc.) pierced once on the left and twice on the right (as I'm a gay guy). I've got kind of thick eyebrows, short fingernails, and am tall and thin. I'm not built like a girl, although people say my hips are kind of wide. I tend to wear coats and things that hide them. I wear big shoes (that don't look like they're too big for me), a watch with a leather band, and not too much jewelry. Although my gold chain tends to accentuate my high collarbones (I'd hate to not wear it but it may be necessary to lose it). Nothing I wear is girly; in fact it all comes from the mens' department. People always used to think I was a guy, so I don't know quite what my problem is.
I've always hung out with guys, and therefore act and talk like them. I take up a lot of room when sitting, and tend to cross one ankle over the opposite knee instead of crossing my legs. I walk confidently, with a bit of a strut. Everything I do is guy- like, whether it be standing, dancing, writing (my handwriting's all over the shop), talking on the phone, or anything else. I hold doors for people, let girls order first when out to dinner, drive like a guy, and even have bumper stickers saying things like "He who dies with the most guitars wins", a queer pride sticker, and one that says "I kiss boys" with a rainbow flag.
I play guitar, piano, bass guitar (and about 5 other instruments), hockey, baseball, football (both versions), and BXM bike, rollerblade, and skateboard. Almost all my friends are guys. I don't cry at sad movies, and see a lot of horror and action films. I'm not afraid of spiders or snakes. I make dirty jokes and am goofy. I'm rough and not afraid to stand up for myself. And this is just who I am. I'm not trying to be this way. I don't look too girly and I certainly don't dress or act girly.
What's the problem?
Maybe I'm too nice, too reserved, too sensitive, like kids and animals too much or something. Maybe I have too many pairs of shoes.
I mean, I do shave my legs and pits but almost always wear long trousers and long- sleeved shirts. I shave my face. I don't see what the problem is.

09-30-2004, 02:45 AM
Just seeing if this works.
http://img71.exs.cx/img71/665/DSCF64.th.jpg (http://img71.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img71&image=DSCF64.jpg)

09-30-2004, 02:56 AM
Okay, it did. Click on the thumbnails. I'm gonna post a few more. Tell me what you think, please. Is there anything I could change?

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/4854/DSCF65.th.jpg (http://img71.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img71&image=DSCF65.jpg)

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/9808/DSCF66.th.jpg (http://img71.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img71&image=DSCF66.jpg)

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/7369/DSCF67.th.jpg (http://img71.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img71&image=DSCF67.jpg)

09-30-2004, 02:57 AM
http://img71.exs.cx/img71/2636/DSCF68.th.jpg (http://img71.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img71&image=DSCF68.jpg)

Just for fun, my Marylin Manson look ;)

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/8337/DSCF0050.th.jpg (http://img71.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img71&image=DSCF0050.jpg)

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/7679/DSCF69.th.jpg (http://img71.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img71&image=DSCF69.jpg)

09-30-2004, 08:29 AM
Dang Abraxas. And people call you miss!? What's wrong with them!? Wait, do you smile once in a while? ;)

Although that Marilyn Manson look is kinda scary, it somehow highlights some feminine features. But the overall effect is masculine from what I can see.

Good luck!

09-30-2004, 09:22 AM
Yeah, people call me miss. Go figure. So I'm not crazy?
I got my hair cut about a week ago and have had about 5 people call me miss or some variant (would you like to have a seat, ladies, if I'm with my stepmum), nobody has called me sir or mister or anything.
I haven't got a clue.
Do I smile once in awhile? Em... Only if something is funny. ;) I rarely smile in pictures. Smiling does make me look a bit girly.
Yeah, Marylin is scary, but I was having fun. I may do it for Halloween or when I go to an 80s club or something. I think the feminine features have something to do with the fact that I have a very roundish face and the long hair brings that out, making me look more feminine. I think it's just baby fat, really, as I'm quite thin and my face isn't. I think some (very) subtle makeup would make me look a bit more angular and could help. Problem is I'm not very good at makeup and in order to make it look good I have to spend a LONG time on it.
Anyway, thanks for your input :)

09-30-2004, 02:17 PM
Thanks very much :-D
Yes, I'm proud of the fact that I can get away with wearing anything. And I do act to suit my dress. It's just a natural thing, subconscious.
I thought you'd like the lipstick ;)
James Dean, hmm? Maybe I should chew on a matchstick instead of smoking, eh? Hehehe
My dad says I look just like Marylin (although it looks better in person than in the pic), and he used to look just like Yngwie Malmsteen when he was younger. He had really long hair (my dad, that is) and looked almost exactly like Yngwie. And he plays guitar like a demon, too. :)
Family of celeb lookalikes (my mum looks like Pat Benetar and my gran looks almost identical to Liza Minelli)!

Thank you very much for your thoughts!

09-30-2004, 02:36 PM
Thanks very much :)

I still can't figure out why I keep getting called 'miss'.

09-30-2004, 03:45 PM
Thanks :)
It doesn't bother me too much, I'd just prefer most people call me sir or young man or whatever. As I am a guy (in a girl's body of course). I mean, I like people guessing, you're right about that. I'm unique and odd, but as I'm trying to look like a guy I'd like it if people would assume I was; It's make me feel as if I had accomplished what I'm aiming for. Anyway, thanks much, talk soon :-D

09-30-2004, 06:23 PM
Your pictures look great. :)

I don't know where you are from but here guys don't wear that much jewelry. Some might have one ear stud but I can't ever remember seeing a guy with hoops. One necklace is ok but most are worn under the shirt. Also I never see guys wearing bracelets. Maybe this is just region specific and all that fits in there.

As far as dressing, lots of 18-20 year old guys wear button down collars and khaki pants. They also wear jeans and t-shirts as the occasion warrants. Again, you just need to look around and dress similarly to the people around you.

Best of luck,

10-01-2004, 12:24 AM
The jewellery is all part of my metal look. The bracelet I'm wearing is a chain mail spiked bracelet, and then a watch. The chain usually goes under my shirts, but I tend to leave a couple of buttons undone on dress shirts and it frequently sneaks out. As far as the earrings go, I don't usually wear huge ones, but small hoops, studs, screws, etc. And usually just the two in the right ear, as my second hole was pierced recently and I've got to keep something in it all the time so it doesn't close up.

As for dressing like the people around me... I live in Utah and most people around me are Mormons: ultra conservative. I like to stand out. I wear a suit and tie to the mall, leather trousers and motorcycle jacket to the cinemas, etc. I don't like to look anywhere near 'normal', but that's just me, and I've always been that way. My clothes are all typical of young guys, but the way I put them together is unique.

Thanks :)

PS I take the jewellery off before takeoff.

10-01-2004, 02:27 AM
I kind of agree with Deborah in that if people are still perceiving you as a girl then you have to go really conservative... no excess decoration. We call it "Drab" for a reason!!! <Laughing...> It's much the same for us MtFs... we tend to want to be too chic, too perfect, too feminine. And, God help us... men's clothing is generally plain, washed out, wrinkled and cheap. I never did aspire to look like a working mother with two kids and I'm sure you don't want to look like most of the grubs hanging around the pizza concession in the mall.

During the day, to pass at your age, you've got to get "Utah Drab". At night or in the clubs, you can be more fashionable and do the earrings and chains or suit and tie. With your GG hormones, you will always look younger than most of the guys your age, so in effect, you don't really look 18. I was in my mid-30s before I was ever called "Sir" or "Mr." and that was from an eight year old kid so I wouldn't get too upset if you don't get those titles yet.

It does concern me that you are still getting "Miss-ed" because, going by your pics, you shouldn't be. Has to be the body language or some other "signals" you are giving off. If you have a video camera, or can borrow one, it might be worth it to get some vids of yourself to see how you look and interact with others from another angle.

I can't see anything in your photos that project your femme side. The only things I would consider that might be on the "softer" side would be that your lips look too pink (which could be from the flash) and that your eye brows are a bit too arched. Men's brows tend to be straighter. That could be taken care of by "thinning" the outside edges. Also, comb them upwards so they don't lay so flat. I might be way off here but I'm going by the photos which are generally more severe than in real life... but check it out and see if it helps.

And... a little smile would be a nice touch! :) Plus it will add an angle to your jaw and the very macho look of "crows feet". No teeth, though.

:mad: Why is this CD thing so hard??? Well... at least the process is fun! :cool:

10-01-2004, 05:39 PM
I live in Utah and most people around me are Mormons: ultra conservative.

LOL :) I can relate to that. I have never lived in Utah, but I was a Mormon once; a long time ago for about two years. Not any more though. I agree with Jen about being called Sir. I was at least late 20's before I was called that and even then it felt kind of strange.

Keep trying, by your pictures you are doing a great job already.


10-01-2004, 11:53 PM
Eddie, I like your style. Keep the jewlery, you should be yourself. Don't dress like the crowd just to fit in or pass, be different. We have enough boring men in the world without adding to them. The clothes or the jewlery are not the reasons people call you miss, there are many young guys who look like you. The only thing I can think of, it must be the way you act or present yourself, which we can't see in photos. It is not because of the way you look. Like what was said before, it must be a regional thing, cause I see plenty of men who look like you. Maybe I should ask them if people call them miss? Keep your individualism, that makes you unique.

I have Morons living around here also.

Love Amelie

PS-OH you said Mormons, sorry my mistake.Amelie and Eddie...
I though about that after posting this "late" last night. You don't have to lose your personality just to "pass" or get the "MR." acknowledgement. Your look is great... you like it... keep it!!!

I was focusing on the "passing" thing and people referring to you as a girl, which I understand is frustrating. I think it is really rare that anyone can CD (without hormone enhancement) and get away with it 100% of the time. Like Amelie said, if you can at least "...keep them guessing", you will be much closer to your goal.

Well... all I can think for you to do now is to buy a bottle of Aqua Velva after shave. That will disguise your GG pheromones... and make you smell like a jock! (ugh!) If that doesn't confuse everyone... :confused: :D

10-02-2004, 03:11 AM
Thanks guys :)

Maybe it is pheromones. I should buy guy pheromones in a bottle or something.
I use either Drakaar Noir or Anarchy cologne usually, sometimes Old Spice (I can't help it-- I love the smell!), and so don't smell girly at all. I use mens' deoderant as well.

I'm glad you like the look in your pictures.
As for the video camera idea... I've done that (not for that specific purpose) and I can honestly say that my walk, mannerisms, etc. are very male. And this is from an unbiased view.
I should really ask some of my guy friends what they think, and if I am doing anything wrong.

As for the lips, that's the natural colour, although sometimes if I'm REALLY trying to pass, I powder them, or I have this smear- on stuff for your face to block out red a bit. So that works well without making me look anemic or really cold. I do have a problem in that I compulsively apply chapstick every five minutes or so, but if I don't use it I'm miserable and my lips bleed, which is not an attractive feature in anyone, male or female. I'll try fixing my eyebrows a bit, although I'm a wuss and wouldn't like to pluck. I'll probably give it a go once (or have someone experienced do it, as I'd be likely to end up with no eyebrows at all).
Thanks again for all your advice, even though I keep on nagging.
I just can't imagine what I'm doing wrong! :( :confused:


PS It doesn't help when my parents introduce me as their daughter, either :eek:

10-02-2004, 07:36 PM
Hmm... Frankly, I thought you looked more like a guy with the long-hair-rock-band-punk look.
But knowing that people call you "miss" might have biased my guess, so that I think the short-hair-and-jewelry (and nail polish?) look may have made you look more like a butch than a boy (remembering the general media presentations of butch lesbians...). But you still look like a handsome boy in my eyes. :D

Mannerism might not be all of it. I know a guy who crosses his legs often (no idea what his sexual orientation is). But suppose it is, it's also possible that the adoptation of these mannerisms by butch/"some feminists" have desensitized a lot of people, and re-assigned the stereotypical images in their minds.

Or... could it be that words travel fast in your community? Try to go to bigger shopping centers if reasonably reachable.

Personally I'm not trying to stand out. I'd think I'm blending in with my "geeky boy" (or so I believe) look. I've heard of hormone treatment. But the thing that sounded reasonable to me was some kind of estrogen-blocker (if any), and not testosterone. Of course, it's different for your case.

Thanks for everyone's input! I'm learning too. ;)

10-03-2004, 01:46 AM
Thanks, Garbiel :)
I don't know about the longer hair. I hated my hair long. Not the look, but I just didn't want to deal with it. Also, when I had my hair even a few inches longer than it is now, I got called miss almost all the time. I got called "buddy" today, which was nice. I personally (and most of my friends agree) think that I look much more feminine with long hair. It tends to bring out certain facial features.
Yes, nail polish. It's only on one hand, and only occasionally. Always dark colours: dark red, blue, black. It's part of the heavy metal image, again. Many metal and rock guitarists (like I am) wear nail polish.
As for words travelling fast, I don't think that's it. I live in a big city and I don't know very many people. I'm not currently in school and I work for my parents' small private business. When I go out to dinner and movies and stuff is when I notice it most. People I've never met before are the ones that call me 'miss'. My friends aren't exactly subtle, either, especially the friend I most go places with. She calls me 'silly girl' and can't seem to keep it in her head to call me Eddie (although she calls me Ringo, so that's not too bad) or to refer to me as male and treat me as such.
However, even when I give no inclination as to which I am I tend to be called Miss.
I'm out of town now, though, and have no car so I can't just go out on my own and test the grounds. When I get back home I'll get more of a feel for how I'm passing. Also maybe at the club I'm going to, although it is a gay/ alternative friendly club, so the view may be a bit skewed.

Tristen: What is it about the eyes? Do they make me look girly? What could I do to work on them? :confused:

Thanks bunches,

10-03-2004, 04:07 AM
Hey Buddy... http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif :cool:

I'm not sure if it's the eyes so much as the lack of a brow bone. Some guys are more "ape" looking but I have male friends that actually look a lot like you... except older! :o Mine is not big but there is a definite bump under the brow. I did notice in your "mini skirt" photos that the shadow and mascara on your lower eye lid did add dimension to your features. Maybe you could try that with your "metal" look... just the lower lids. Sort of "A Clockwork Orange" thing.

A trick many of us MtF's use is to wear shades or tinted glasses. Your eyes are the windows to your Soul... which is why your mom busted you so much when you were lying or trying to hide something. I'm sure you've thought of this already... but it does work. I can "Imagine" you in John Lennon mode! :cool:

10-03-2004, 04:12 AM
Just a couple of side notes:

Regarding leg crossing... Men do cross their legs at the knee which is often associated as a feminine mannerism but not always. If you are anywhere that is not considered "casual" , it is deemed to be "bad manners" to show the bottoms of your shoes, so men either do not cross their legs, cross at the ankles or cross at the knees. If you are wearing dress slacks or a suit, you always cross at the knees or not at all since it does tend to leave wrinkles. And oddly, in the military, when you are in uniform, if you sit... you cross at the knees or keep your legs fairly close together. None of the open leg stuff. Some men just find it more comfortable to cross at the knees but are either tall or very thin. Most guys don't like the "squashed" feeling and prefer the open leg (look at my crotch) position or ankle to knee. It is considered effeminate for a man to cross knee-to-knee in casual situations no matter what size or shape you are. I often see men crossing knee-to-knee while eating at restaurants... that's really weird!!! The trick is to know when you should and when you definitely shouldn't.

Regarding ChapStick... I figured this out a long time ago but, recently, a news article came out that said recent research proved that the use of ChapStick type products cause a dependence and make the chapped lip situation worse. Evidently, it keeps the moisture too close to the surface of the skin and as soon as you quit using it... the skin dries out and/or splits. The recommendation was to just stop using it and let your lips go back to their normal condition. The skin will dry up, fall off and should go back to normal in a week or two.

When I work out in the sun or wind, my lips and upper lip get really dry and sometimes split, usually in the winter months. When I remember, I'll use extra moisturizer or some Vitamin E lip balm (from the health food store) before going out. Mostly I forget so have to deal with the chapped feeling. First, I dab on some Bactine to aid in the healing and it kind of numbs the skin so it doesn't hurt so much. Then I smear on some Vit E or Jojoba Oil. The Jojoba really works well. If its really bad I'll do it again before bed and add an additional layer of this Super Moisturizer stuff I get from my Mary Kay rep and by morning, its back to normal.

A great resource for natural, moisturizing lipsticks or lip balm that is actually good for your lips is Burt's Bees products (at your local health food store) or at www.burtsbees.com (http://www.burtsbees.com) They also have a good concealing cream... very thick but once you get it on... works pretty good to cover beard shadow or other imperfections.

10-03-2004, 09:32 PM
I've actually tried looking for you via YIM to talk with you, but since you did say you were out of town. We can make some time some other time to shoot the shit.

From viewing your pictures, I'm going to give you my own personal two cents. As much as you like the earrings and painted fingernails, that's something you are going to have to rid yourself of. I think the hair could go shorter as well. I completely rid myself of my hair, because hair on my head always brought out the girlish look. If you still want some hair, try slicking it back. There are plently of short haired girls that have a messy hair thing going on, so it pretty much works against you. From viewing your pictures, it looks like you shape your eyebrows. If that's the case, don't. Guys don't shape their eyebrows. Shave inbetween to keep yourself from ever getting a unibrow, but no more than that.

I would agree that dressing with button down shirts tucked out and jeans and boots...might work out better for you in the end. I know you are goin' for that rocker look and all...ever think of wearin' something like 'work shirts' or band t-shirts with sleeves with one size (not 10 sizes) too big pants? You don't want to wear super baggy pants, but you don't want to wear pants that hug your girly hips either. Sleeveless shirts...well unless you have a bit of hair on your arms and underarms...I wouldn't recommend it. I know you said something about puttin' on make up that looked natural...but guys don't wear makeup. I know I get tempted at times to put on a tad of makeup when I have a pimple or something, but it's just something I have to deal with until it's gone.

Work on that voice of yours some more as well. It'll definitely help you with bein' called 'sir' more often.

10-04-2004, 01:01 AM
Sideburns... No, I don't shape my brows. Don't touch them at all, actually. They're natural, just the way they are. Bushy and black, but arched.
They're not that high actually, and I was raising them in the one pic where I was looking up (in a blue shirt I think), but they are low-- right above the lids.
I'll be on YIM once I get home, but I'm not on my computer; I'm on my stepmum's and she doesn't have YIM. I'll be home around the 18th of this month, so hopefully I'll get to talk to you then. You can always email me at demian_tv@yahoo.co.uk and I'll get back within a day or possibly two days. :)
I usually only wear sleveless shirts with another shirt over them. I've got quite a bit of hair on my arms but can't stand not shaving my pits. That, and my parents would find that a bit weird since I used to be so damn picky about shaving every day.
As for the hair, it actually seems to be working for me. I just got it cut a couple of weeks ago and haven't been out too much. I don't want to shave my head as I like hair and have a touch of psoriasis on my head, which wouldn't be good to show off. :eek: But, yeah, the hair seems to be working so far.
Yeah, guys don't wear makeup, but I've got a kind that you can't see at ALL. Even up close. It looks like I'm not wearing any, and I don't mind wearing it. Nobody notices if I do wear it, so I think it's okay.
Earrings... I've seen a lot of guys who wear them, but I think perhaps I should stick to a simple stud or tiny hoop unless I'm playing onstage or something. Nails I don't do unless I'm dressing in my metal gear. Problem is I forget to take it back off once I'm done with it.
I'm working on the voice. Maybe I should scream at night before I go to bed or something, to make it lower, but that's bad for the voice and, as a singer, I don't want to **** it over. Since I'm out of town I haven't had much opportunity to work on it much, but once I get home, I'll work harder on that, too.

Tristen, I'll try to work on that.

Jen: Thanks very much; I'll take this all into consideration. :)
And, damn it, but I left my sunglasses back in Utah. :rolleyes:

I suppose ultimately all men are different and it might help once I get into Uni if I introduce myself as a guy and get introduced to more people as such. I'll see in the next few weeks how I'm pulling it off.

10-10-2004, 12:18 PM
Just some suggestions. Now how can I get people to call me 'miss'? Julie...
Open your hands, pull your elbows in, keep your arms and legs close to the body. :p

Also, use very little makeup (no lipstick... just gloss), wear sweats that have been washed at least ten times or a jogging suit and large sun glasses, flats or sneakers only, buy a short, curly wig in mousy brown, hang around groups of tall and/or large GGs, try not to let people see your hands, rent or borrow a small child that you can drag around by the wrist while you are shopping, start sleeping only 5 hours a night so you always look tired and stressed, take some sandpaper or steel wool and wear off the tips of your fingernail polish, don't smile at anyone you don't know, under any circumstances and never pick up or carry anything over 5 pounds... ask for someone to help you!
Hummmmmm.... do you really want to get called "Miss" that badly. :confused:

Alternative solution... be prepared to spend about $35,000 on cosmetic surgery!!! :eek:

Alternative solution #2... just be who you are, do what you have been doing... and hang around groups of tall and/or large GGs! :p