GGs and the Photo Section

[linda allen]

Although I don't often post photos of myself, when I do, I would welcome comments from GGs on my presentation, clothing selection, jewelry, etc. I think in general, GG's observations would be a big help for me, and I assume others of us who are trying to dress and look like females.

Thoughts (from all) ?

[~Joanne~]

Actually I don't think it helps me much per say as I try to have a style that most GG's had 10-20 years ago. What they wear today is far from the look I am after so they will mostly frown upon it as I play catch up. From all the previous posts, Most GG's don't bother with the photo section at all, they are here for support and to talk about issues that are a bit more important to them than clothes. Remember that the clothes are important to us but to them they are just that....clothes.

I also would welcome any comments, critique, opinions, pointers and the like but it just doesn't seem in the cards that much ;)

[Sandra]

I will sometimes reply and try and give advise, but do find that most of the time my replies get ignored for the "Oh you look great, or oh my how sexy you look, oh you are so passable" when sorry to say most do not.

[~Joanne~]

That's a shame Sandra because I thought that was the reason that we post pictures in the first place to get the honest truth. I do see a lot of what your saying going on there though. Personally, I want to improve not have smoke blown up my skirt but due to certain fears, I don't do full pictures to begin with. Those that do should be willing to take the bad with the good.

[Tamara Croft]

That's a shame Sandra because I thought that was the reason that we post pictures in the first place to get the honest truth.Takes support of others to get support and imho, most people on this board do not support GG's at all and not just in this section either. Maybe if we started getting more support instead of being ignored, or slammed because we're staff, we might just start supporting others and posting in other sections, but until I see that, well... nuff said!

[linda allen]

That's a shame Sandra because I thought that was the reason that we post pictures in the first place to get the honest truth. I do see a lot of what your saying going on there though. Personally, I want to improve not have smoke blown up my skirt but due to certain fears, I don't do full pictures to begin with. Those that do should be willing to take the bad with the good.

It's great to get the "Oh you look great." comments, but I too would like to hear the truth. If there are ways I could look more like a mature female, I would like to know. Don't be mean, but be honest.

[alesha_cd]

Honestly I would prefer comments from GGs on my photos over comments from other CDers because I think the GGs would be the most constructive and critical without any "fluff". After all, women tend to examine other women's makeup, hair, clothes, etc. on a level that most guys (even CDers) don't. I would welcome constructive comments from GGs any day! I sometimes ask my wife, "does everything look OK?" once I'm dressed. I value and trust her opinions and comments. We CDers tend to look at other CDers with less scrutiny so to speak. Of course none of this applies to the CDer who is simply wanting to feel feminine and doesn't necessarily dress to try to "pass".

[Sabrina69]

I had my reply deleted as well in that other thread.... Shame, because I was offering my view on what my SO looks at when I let her look around with my account, she has no interest yet in making one. However, she generally only looks when I am around and want to look too. She says "She has me to look at". However, she will get impressed with some pictures when they look really passable, as will I. She is more interested in learning more about the men that do it, and how other couples enjoy it over the pictures.

[Beverley Sims]

I am not a GG... Surprise. :)
I do give constructive criticism in the photo section and I am guilty of giving a softer criticism to some of those that I think have no idea on how they should present themselves.
I say it this way as the person presenting thinks in their minds eye that they look more attractive than they really are.
Like any GG in the street, there are those that look drop dead gorgeous through to the range of obscene.
I do mean the obese and those that do not care about their appearance either dress wise or for any other reason.

It would be harder for some girls to give constructive criticism as they already have a built in opposition to the man in a dress.
I feel the CDer is giving an opinion based on his/her own skills of presentation.

[alesha_cd]

She is more interested in learning more about the men that do it, and how other couples enjoy it over the pictures.
Sabrina, I too would say my wife is more interested in how other couples enjoy it and the feelings the wives have whose husbands dress. However, she won't hesitate to say a CDer looks nice if she sees one.


I say it this way as the person presenting thinks in their minds eye that they look more attractive than they really are.

It would be harder for some girls to give constructive criticism as they already have a built in opposition to the man in a dress.
Good points Beverley.

[ReineD]

I posted this in the other thread that I won't post in threads where the OP says, "gurls, be kind". I figure the OP just dresses in private and is not interested in an objective critique. If the OP just posts new outfits, then it's hard to know if they want the objective truth or validating support. A lot of people just want people to admire their clothes and since I have distinct, personal taste in clothes, my opinion won't be valuable to someone whose tastes in clothing are different than mine.

I also have a difficult time reconciling the tiny pictures we see to what a person would look like, life sized. The body itself is fairly easy to transform ... all it takes are forms, pads, maybe a waist sincher, and long sleeves if the arms are large, slacks if the legs are hairy, etc. It's the face that usually gives someone away and unless the CDer posts a full on face shot seen from different angles, then it's hard to give a meaningful opinion.

Even then, what is one supposed to say when we still see male gender cues? That you don't pass? It's hard to tell how someone might take this and also, I don't believe that a CDer needs to pass at close range in order to go out. My SO knows that when she talks to people, they know that she is not a genetic female. But this generally doesn't matter, not after there is human contact with someone else which does tend to dispel any preconceived bias.

[Lorileah]

The truth? You can't handle the truth. Really, when I (or several others) here comment on how the color of make up is wrong, the way one stands looks manly, whatever, we get "Hey! I thought this was a support site!" So, I gave up. I think many GGs feel the same. When they say something it gets ignored or poo-poo'd.



There is a thread running "For GG's. Do any of you ever go to the photo section?"

It's apparently for GGs only to respond so my post was deleted. My Bad!



It wasn't "apparent" it was blatantly obvious to even the most casual observer. And I don't think you were given an infraction, you were just deleted with an explanation.

[AllieSF]

I usually only make comments when I like a look, including just the smile when someone is obviously very happy in the pic. I also offer an occasional constructive comment when I think that I can say it properly without sounding like a know it all, or talking down to someone.

Lorileah, I must be reading different threads and posts, because I do not remember so much backlash when someone tactfully recommended some ways to improve the look. The key word is "tactfully". If someone harshly or very bluntly criticizes a look, then I do not blame the complainers. It is how the criticism is offered.

For myself, I do not post pics very often. I do when the mood strikes me and someone's thread offers me the opportunity to share a pic or two. I post those pics for fun, because I happen to like my looks in that pic compared to all the other bad pics, and it makes me feel good. I do not want constructive criticism and get my validation of my presentation when out in the real world and someone offers me a specific compliment that I can understand as true and not just "Not bad for a guy!".

The other thing is that we always select the best pic of many to share and even that may not be totally representative of how we will appear in real life. I always enjoy group pics at some of the larger gatherings like the SCC and Divas Las Vegas. You then have a better chance to see what someone looks like when they are in a pic posted by someone else.

[jenni_xx]

It saddens me that so much emphasis seems to be placed on the notion of passing. I understand why a cd would want to pass, because the intent for many is to actually look like a woman, for to do so would mean attaining an external presentation of an internal desire, and therefore passing would be a validation of that intent. But the fact of the matter is that many, perhaps even the majority, of cd's do not look convincing, or certainly not as convincing as they would hope. But that need not be a bad thing. We are after all, men, and surely the most important thing for us doesn't lie in an ability to pass, but rather in being accepted within society when we present ourselves in the manner that we choose to do so.

In regards to photos on this site, and more specifically the responses that people get when they post photos of themselves, when someone replies positively by saying (along the lines of) "you look great", maybe we shouldn't automatically assume that the person writing such a reply isn't stating that the person in the photo looks convincing as a woman, but simply just looks good as a "man in a dress". And it's about time, at least I think it is, that we should be able to say that. The world knows of our existence, and although we are still at the stage where the chances are just as high (maybe even higher) that we'll be ridiculed as we'll be accepted, it's about time that we, as a group, started to feel confident in expressing ourselves and not worrying about whether we pass or not.

And in respect of acceptance, for me that starts from within. I genuinely do believe that people pick up on the vibe another person gives off. To use an analogy, when a person making a presentation is incredibly nervous, that nervousness rubs off on their audience, and can often result in their audience feeling awkward, and even nervous themselves. Likewise when a person is confident, that "aura" rubs off on people around them. I simply feel that a person doesn't have to pass in order to have a positive affect on others. If a person is genuinely confident, then even if it's obvious that they are a man in a dress, the people they encounter aren't as likely to feel awkward when in their presence. We have to feel like we do belong, no matter how convincing we do or do not look, and that we are doing nothing that we should feel ashamed about.

[Lori Kurtz]

How should we respond to a photo: is honesty the highest goal, or is kindness? And can the two be reconciled?
Paul Simon asked that question in a song many years ago; here's the final stanza.
"Honesty
Honesty
It's such a waste of energy
No you don't have to lie to me
Just give me some tenderness
Beneath your honesty
You don't have to lie to me
Just give me some tenderness."

I've been very leery of getting totally honest about some photos here, because there is so much in the rest of the world that brings both CDs and TSs down, and for many, this is a place for tenderness--not to the exclusion of honesty, but still, where tenderness is paramount. When a photo looks really nice to me, I don't hesitate to say so--especially when it appears to be a woman who is trying to transition from a formerly male existence to what she feels is her real female self, and she honest-to-God looks great. There have certainly been some lovely examples of that here. If I can't honestly say something nice, I don't say anything. Sometimes someone posts multiple pictures, which gives me the opportunity to say, quite honestly, "I like this one better," and maybe mention a reason why, which might be helpful in a relatively painless way to the person who wants to be more passable. I can understand that the GGs here might often struggle with that honesty/tenderness dilemma, and might have trouble knowing whether the person posting a photo is looking for serious evaluation and advice, or just some sweet affirmation.

Some photos, though, are of guys who are obviously getting a thrill out of creating a bold, blatantly sexual female appearance. I understand that concept, because that's what dressing up was for me when I did it. And I think those "girls" often know they don't quite look 100% female, just as I knew I didn't back in the day. I don't think they're looking for a "you're totally passable" so much as they're looking for a "wow, you're hot." And if that's my honest feeling about a photo I see here, and it sometimes is even when it's obviously a guy in a dress ("whoa, I know she's actually a guy, but I want her anyway"), I don't mind saying so.

[ReineD]

In regards to photos on this site, and more specifically the responses that people get when they post photos of themselves, when someone replies positively by saying (along the lines of) "you look great", maybe we shouldn't automatically assume that the person writing such a reply isn't stating that the person in the photo looks convincing as a woman, but simply just looks good as a "man in a dress". And it's about time, at least I think it is, that we should be able to say that.

But the OP asked why GGs don't respond to the picture threads. I'm guessing that many if not most GGs have mixed feelings about how great men look when they wear makeup and dresses, to be honest. We might support our SOs, but at the same time we are still aware of the general social bias against the CDing.

Also, judging by the fear that most CDers have when going out for the first time, it's not a stretch to believe that they don't want to be seen as a guy in a dress. I think it takes years and years of going out AND interacting with people before someone can be comfortable with the idea that people know that s/he is not a genetic female. I'm guessing that most of the CDers here don't have that experience.

[NicoleScott]

Welcome to the club. I had a post deleted on this thread, too. It was my understanding that the rules want you to say "specifically" for a certain group. This one said "for GG's", and many threads want responses from a certain group but allow responses from others as well. I mean, can't the OP sort them out? Also, I thought it was strange that if you want only GG's to answer, why not post in the FAB section? A bit of over-moderating, I thought, but that's their privilege. I try to follow the rules, but sometimes I get my hand slapped.
But thanks for welcoming responses from all. I'm not a GG, so I can't address the topic.

[Princess Chantal]

I really do love Jenni_xx's post, it really rings true to my thoughts.

As for GG's commenting on photos, I don't put their comments (either appreciative or criticizing <has their actually been any criticizing from them?>) on any special pedestal like many other crossdressers seem to do. I'm willing to read and gain knowledge from whomever offers it up no matter if it's a GG, TS, out&about cds, closeted cds, men, aliens.....

[AllieSF]

I think I understand where you are coming from, but ....

If someone asks clearly that they "only" want responses from one group then if we are not part of that group, we should respect their request. The Mods deleting a post that is outside the requested group is only doing their job. Asking only in the GG's FAB section (GG's only) works for a GG, but not for anyone else because we do not have access there. Not that difficult for me, but then I have also been known (known to me anyway) to make an occasional mistake and post incorrectly in one of those "XX Only" threads. Maybe I had a brain fart or my senility is catching up with me.

[jenni_xx]

But the OP asked why GGs don't respond to the picture threads. I'm guessing that many if not most GGs have mixed feelings about how great men look when they wear makeup and dresses, to be honest. We might support our SOs, but at the same time we are still aware of the general social bias against the CDing.

Yeah, I did go off on a tangent there somewhat.


Also, judging by the fear that most CDers have when going out for the first time, it's not a stretch to believe that they don't want to be seen as a guy in a dress. I think it takes years and years of going out AND interacting with people before someone can be comfortable with the idea that people know that s/he is not a genetic female. I'm guessing that most of the CDers here don't have that experience.

Very true. Until we get to the point where the social stigma attached to cding is no longer the case, then the "fear" will reside. Only one thing though can help remove the social stigma that exists, and that's cd's ourselves. Nonetheless, at some point, no matter what anyone says, be it positive or negative, we have to be honest with ourselves. The crux lies in accepting ourselves, irrespective of how convincing we look or not. Personally speaking, long ago I reached the stage whereby it simply doesn't matter to me whether I pass or not. It won't, nor should it, stop me from expressing myself, within reason, how I choose to do so.

[Lorileah]

why not post in the FAB section? A bit of over-moderating, I thought, but that's their privilege. Um...maybe because the OP was not a GG? You suppose? and the headline says "For GG's only to reply: Do any of you ever go to the photo section? " Was that ambiguous?

[franlee]

There is no way any GG can look at these pictures with the same empathy one of us will. And that really goes for us to because of the overlooked Irony, we know these are pictures of CD'ed persons to start with. Kind of like telling the jury to disregard that last statement after it was said aloud.

[Tracii G]

I would love a GG to comment on my pics and tell me honestly what they think good bad or otherwise.
I really admire the GG's here and the mods for a job well done.

[reb.femme]

.......................I really admire the GG's here and the mods for a job well done.

I'll go ditto to this.

I think Tamara in particular likes me because she has written to me on several occasions about my posts. Damn, she was deleting and editing them. I thought it was favouritism :heehee:.

Rebecca

[Di]

Anyhow, although I don't often post photos of myself, when I do, I would welcome comments from GGs on my presentation, clothing selection, jewelry, etc. I think in general, GG's observations would be a big help for me, and I assume others of us who are trying to dress and look like females.

Thoughts (from all) ?

I would say that when you post pics .. put .I welcome comments on presentation, clothing ect
Because as GGs we feel ignored and get shot down if we do give out our observations.
I have pmd members to help if I see something ....and even that is sometimes taken not in the spirit I mean it in....so I give up:sad::sad:
So let us know :D

[Marleena]

Because as GGs we feel ignored and get shot down if we do give out our observations.
I have pmd members to help if I see something ....and even that is sometimes taken not in the spirit I mean it in....so I give up:sad::sad:

That's a good point. I can see where somebody can easily take the idea of somebody (especially a GG) because they are a woman, trying to help as criticism instead. I think the goal of most MTF's is to look as convincing as possible and many are sensitive to any advice or help because they are so serious about it they can be offended.

I guess the best thing to do is just be careful unless the poster acts for constructive criticism and even then I'm not so sure.:)

[Greenie]

I normally only take the time to post on people who I think A.) have a really good presentation or B.) I know.

So... If I comment on your picture thread. Its normally a good thing. Lol. But I have posted constructive criticism before and gotten a favorable response. Maybe because I have only been here for like 6 months and I haven't been here as long as the other girls I haven't had that bad of a response. Sure some of my posts have been ignored, but what do I care. Its the internet. I don't expect the OP to respond to EVERY message. I don't normally take it personally if my comment is ignored. Because I have had threads where someone responds, I take note and move on and thank everyone in a general post.

I dunno. I thinks that some people are more sensitive than others. But it is good form to thank anyone who posts in your thread with a (not rude of course) comment.

Maybe when cristisim comes form a GG that's not the "omg you look so good" CDers feel embarrassed that they don't "pass" as well as they think they do?

[linda allen]

I normally try to thank people for their comments, but sometimes it can go on forever so I usually wait a while and thank folks as a group.

[Jenniferathome]

....Maybe when cristisim comes form a GG that's not the "omg you look so good" CDers feel embarrassed that they don't "pass" as well as they think they do?

This is the heart of the matter but who better to offer advice than a woman?! I think very few really want "advice" and simply want a positive stroke. My feeling is that if you post and ask for advice you should be thankful for it AND if a woman offers it, be damn thankful. I really do wish the women would go to that forum more and offer real critiques. I know most women don't want to burst bubbles, but for the cross dresser presentation is everything. We need your help.

[Marcelle]

To be honest (no pun intended), if you really want honest feedback, you should say so in your post.

Personally, I will be posting a thread in a few days under photos with some very up close head shots. Submitted it yesterday but I was told I had to wait a week from my last . . . that will teach me "not" to read the rules :) Not looking for an ego stroke but serious comments. I get it, I am a guy and looking totally feminine . . . not going to happen. However, if I want to venture out with my wife again, I need to ensure I have a fighting chance of blending (never going to pass) so I don't put her in a bad situation. I understand that looks are only half of the presentation but, they are a critical half.

Personal observation - I find a lot of gals post pictures because they want to share and exciting adventure. They might not necessarily be looking for feedback good or bad, just sharing a happy moment. That I think is where critical feedback might go bad because it was not solicited.

So if you want an honest opinion, ask for it up front. But you need to be prepared to take the good with the bad. As far as worrying about people's sensitivities, you can still be critical without being cruel . . . Something like, "you really need to do something about your eyebrows is critical and construction" However if you comment is "Try a paper bag on your head when you go out" that would be just cruel and mean.

My two cents

Hugs

Isha

[Tracii G]

I appreciate all comments from GG's here and their opinion means everything to me.
I think Greenie is right on target in her post.You hate to comment in fear of hurting feelings.
Thick skin is something a MtF needs because 90% of the time we don't pass even tho' we think we do.

[Sheila11]

I would never post a pic asking how I look. I know how I look. I am a "guy in a dress". With the right lighting, camera angle, distance, filters, and editing, I will still look like a "guy in a dress". Unless the GG has a "guy in a dress" fetish I assume she has more important things to peruse.

[Candice Mae]

I've got a few replies from GG's here over the years, with the amount of threads I post it accounts for probably less than .005% of my replies. I greatly appreciate it when a GG replies to my posts, its nice a their view on how I look good or bad.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Hi all, not been here in an age but thought I'd like to reply to this one

IMO GG's are generally more observant of the little things that make a feminine look - so if you really want to improve your look/ability to pass then the GG's input on your photos is probably more helpful.

Can I suggest that when you post a photo in the photo section you start with asking what you really want to know - something along the lines of:

please be kind
please be honest - GGs only
please be honest - no GG input thanks
please give honest criticism - GG's & all genders welcome
no comments or criticism thanks
please don't blow smoke up my skirt!

at least that way we will all know where we are - no inadvertent offence etc.:thumbsup: