A Question

[julie marie1]

As I sit here fully dressed, I have to wonder why is it acceptable for women to take on masculine roles (as occurs in many Shakespeare comedies), but a man enjoying walk as a women would bring reproach?

[Tracii G]

Get out and take a walk whats keeping you inside?

[ReineD]

Weren't women barred from the Stage during Shakespearian times and women's roles were played by men in costumes with falsetto voices?

But if you're meaning contemporary women, they're not taking masculine roles. They've expanded their feminine roles to accommodate having to provide a second salary to the household income. This brings with it changes in responsibility (now Dad has to help at home too), and also changes in clothing styles. Do you see dads who help to take care of their younger children, and who help with dinners as being feminine? I don't.

So yeah ... contemporary women are just as feminine as they've always been, but in a different way than perhaps CDers like, because women had to keep up with the economy.

[Michelle (Oz)]

I enjoy strolls and most everything else dressed as a woman a number of days a week. No reproachment that I'm aware of although I'm not a mind reader. Actually quite the contrary with a number of accepting friends.

[NathalieX66]

Julie, you're gonna be surprised how society will treat you if you venture out your front door.

For me, there is no more frontier. I just merely have to choose which gender I feel like going out my front door as. I say this after being three years into the game, and I love it!

[Tracii G]

I raised both my Daughters on my own did the cooking,cleaning etc did that cause me to CD?
Women were barred from the stage at that time so men played the female parts.Reine is correct.

[sometimes_miss]

Traditionally, societies relied upon males for the physical defense of area involved. Any feminine behavior would cause suspician that the suspect male might at some point demonstrate submissive or less than completely reliable performance for his part of the defense of that society. Same with social issues; women rely on men for their safety. Any indication that he could possibly not live up to his responsibility, such as any indication of deferring to another male, or submissive behavior of any sort, could let the woman conclude that he may at some point not be reliable for defending her should a physical confrontation come about; so she would prefer another male, instead. It's something that crossdressers have to deal with when we try to date women; despite all other evidence to the contrary, such as being a soldier, marine or pilot, if a woman sees or could envision you in any a submissive type role, he may assume (consciously or subconsciously) that you may not be reliable should she need to be defended physically from attack. You could be the most macho guy in regular life; but if you dress up as a sexy woman, it is assumed that you are doing so in order to attract men, and that would indicate that you are doing so in order to have sex in the traditionally female, i.e., submissive, role. And bingo, you're screwed.

[suzy1]

Get out and take a walk whats keeping you inside?

How many answers would you like?

[deebra]

I would like to reference Nathalie and Michelle's posts above, remember a thread a couple of weeks ago where a member was staying at a RV park, came home from work, changed and took a walk around the park; was gaulked at, negative comments made and security called and she was questioned. Not everyone is nice to males(cd's) doing what females are allowed to do(wear any damn thing they want).

[Greenie]

What is often forgotten is that not everyone is just automatically accepting of women wearing whatever they want either. This argument is constantly thrown around. But if a woman goes out dressed very masculine, many will think she is a lesbian. And until we are in a world where people do not judge others based on sexual orientation (hopefully sooner than later) although be it less vocally, they are judged as well. A man wearing woman's clothing is still strange to most people. A butch lesbian, although much more common place, is still judged by bigots. I HAVE heard people say negative comments about my butch lesbian friends under their breath. Normally they are elderly, or the crazy religious type.

So I dislike this blanket term that ALL women can wear WHATEVER they want WITHOUT repercussions. That's just not true. You need to broaden your perspective a little I think.

[kimdl93]

In the Shakespearean era men played all the female roles. Historically, society has been a good deal more restrictive for women then men. Only recently has that begun to change.

But the change you seek is happening as well. As others her attest, it's possible for each of us to go out dressed as we wish...within certain boundaries of decency and decorum.

[Marcelle]

Hi Julie-Marie,

A lot of what has already been said is true. While there are those who will readily accept you regardless of how well you blend/pass there are those who won't. It is a sad fact that we live in a world full on intolerant people.

I truly believe that as stereotypical gender roles bleed things will become more tolerant when it comes to this side of the house. I have lots of male friends who are active caregivers at home, clean the house, do the cooking, just like I have lots of female friends who are in male stereotypical jobs. These do not define one's gender but are holdovers from a long ago societal stereotype.

However, clothing unfortunately still defines us (gender and role). I agree in principle that women have an advantage over men in that there is latitude for dressing in more stereotypical male wardrobe (e.g., pants, shirts, etc.). However they are still very feminine in style. I also agree with Greenie in that women just can't wear anything without raising an eyebrow or two.

Unfortunately for us wearing women's clothing will immediately draw attention, especially if you don't blend/pass. Is it wrong . . . YOU BET. Will it change . . . WHO KNOWS. I have a bit of faith that as old stereotypes die off along with the dinosaurs who perpetuated them, it will become more acceptable.

Should this stop you from walking in the light "en femme" only you can answer that. Lots of gals do and are good with it. We each need to make that decision ourselves.

BTW, it was "boys" who played female roles during Shakespeare's time. Once the boys dropped and the voice go low they moved on to male roles

Hugs

Isha

[Leah Lynn]

Many of Shakespeare's plays had a female character that would pass as male. Twelfth Night comes to mind, but not the only one. Recently there was a movie out with a female passing to hold a position of a butler. History is rife with women passing as a man to work, to go to war, etc. Society finds this to be acceptable, but a man trying to pass as a woman is not. Of course, Some Like It Hot, is accepted, but only as a comedy.

"Well, nobody's perfect!"

Leah

[Beverley Sims]

They are both art forms with two very different standards.

Quote from Greenie,
"So I dislike this blanket term that ALL women can wear WHATEVER they want WITHOUT repercussions. That's just not true."

Yep! when I was younger some of my friends, me included did paste some unkind labels on women who dressed differently.
My views have tempered somewhat these days.

[Jenniferathome]

What is often forgotten is that not everyone is just automatically accepting of women wearing whatever they want either. This argument is constantly thrown around. But if a woman goes out dressed very masculine, many will think she is a lesbian. And until we are in a world where people do not judge others based on sexual orientation (hopefully sooner than later) although be it less vocally, they are judged as well. A man wearing woman's clothing is still strange to most people. A butch lesbian, although much more common place, is still judged by bigots. I HAVE heard people say negative comments about my butch lesbian friends under their breath. Normally they are elderly, or the crazy religious type.

So I dislike this blanket term that ALL women can wear WHATEVER they want WITHOUT repercussions. That's just not true. You need to broaden your perspective a little I think.

Greenie hit the nail on the head! Imagine that, a woman hitting a nail;-). Too many cross dressers want cross dressing not to be weird. It is weird! Anything done by a small fraction of society, against societal norms, is weird.

Now, what will happen if you go out for a walk? Likely nothing but possibly someone muttering under their breath. Go out if you want to go out but be prepared. It will be more fun if you are

[Brenda Freeman]

Acceptance is overrated! If women waited for acceptance they would still be wearing long dresses and full coverage bloomer swimsuits, that would place a major limitation on what I as a crossdresser admire and enjoy in womens clothes! I decided a few years ago that I can't wait for acceptance from those that do not really matter anyway. Life is short so put on a short dress and have fun! Be safe too,
Brenda

[Frédérique]

As I sit here fully dressed, I have to wonder why is it acceptable for women to take on masculine roles (as occurs in many Shakespeare comedies), but a man enjoying walk as a women would bring reproach?

The easy answer is “It’s a man’s world...” so it’s OK to embrace traditional male virtues. You rarely see the opposite, i.e. a male who is so sensitive that he prefers to shed his birth gender and express that via crossdressing. We live in a world where this is not acceptable, but, if I had my druthers, and I don’t, I kinda like the fact that what I (and we) do is unacceptable. In short, I need this societal reticence to float my boat, fill my sails, and push me past the gender horizon...
:battingeyelashes:

[docrobbysherry]

If u need rationalizations for reasons not to go out, Julie? Here's 4 u can use:

Villagers.
Villagers with torches.
Villagers with torches and pitchforks.
Outraged villagers with torches and pitchforks looking for CD's!

[Dannigurlfriend]

I love going out, but I choose where I go wisely. Im not much for the bar scene especially gay ones but since they are CD friendly and usually have drag shows I end up there and a few other places that are CD friendly. But as far as strolling into the local country bar....uhm that would be a big negative ghostrider LOL.

[Dani0948]

I think it's all about how the clothing and accessories are styled (intended). I think most woman wearing a suit and tie styled for a man would get the same dissaproving looks when she walked down the street as a man wearing a dress (no other accessories). How many of us would be happy wearing only the clothes without the wig, makeup, jewelry, etc?

[Michelle (Oz)]

I would like to reference Nathalie and Michelle's posts above, remember a thread a couple of weeks ago where a member was staying at a RV park, came home from work, changed and took a walk around the park; was gaulked at, negative comments made and security called and she was questioned. Not everyone is nice to males(cd's) doing what females are allowed to do(wear any damn thing they want).


What is often forgotten is that not everyone is just automatically accepting of women wearing whatever they want either.
So I dislike this blanket term that ALL women can wear WHATEVER they want WITHOUT repercussions. That's just not true. You need to broaden your perspective a little I think.


Go out if you want to go out but be prepared. It will be more fun if you are

These three quotes together are very informative. I agree with Greenie's point but it comes down to whether we are prepared for the repercussions. Here is my take:

I'm already a 'male in a dress' so I'm breaking THE fundamental rule
so what is the additional penalty if I also wear age inapproporiate clothes (according to the rule book)
yes I am sure that many people who actually see me (rather than just pass by) think me different (or worse)
there is always a risk of being in danger (as there is in any state of dress) so some care is needed
I do frequent main stream places and not fringe bars, clubs, etc
there could be a very very rare circumstance that might embarrass you - I have had 2 incidents in some 5000 hours out dressed.

While I continue to refine my skills in presenting female, Jennifer is right. Being comfortable perceived as a 'man in a dress' is very empowering. It removes the fear of being read and encourages enriching interaction and the friendships that follow.

Michelle