CD/TVs becoming TSs

[FionaAlexis]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xx

[tiffany2]

i am a cd/tv wanting to be a ts

[MandyTS]

Every TS is different, as is every CD. I am sure that you are right in that some people may CD as a way to quail feelings that get stronger. In many TS though crossdressing really never occurs until they decide to transistion.

It all depends.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I beleive that all of us CDs suspect that we may be TS, especially when we first start. Untill later we eventually realize that our desire to be a woman is really a fantasy about getting the ultimate CD "rush" or whatever we get from CDing.---Eventually get to the stage "Yeah its fun to think about, but it really would be a bummer to be stuck as a real girl". Thats why i caution Cders, especially young ones against being too hasty to make a decision. Indeed, this type of thing is exactly why Doctors recommend a lot of psychotheripy before SRS operations.

There are other reasons guys want to become women other than TS. Ultimate sexual rushes, Masochistic fantacies and a drive for more and more complete CD experiences.----Yes, the desire to BE a woman is THERE and it is difficult ro discern from actual TS-----Of course a few unfortunates find out the hard way that the surgery is not what they really wanted.----It us usually cited as a cause of suicides among post op TS patients.

I beleive if we CD long enough and actively examine the possibilities behind our own CD motivations, the truth will eventually become evident if we are CD or TS or not. My advice is never to "settle" on a conclusion too soon.

[jamie_44]

I am not sure just exactly where I am at on the cd scale but I have a very strong urge to become a complete woman. I feel like I am running out of time. I would probably do it now if I did not have the family committment.
It is tricky territory.

[FionaAlexis]

i am a cd/tv wanting to be a ts

Thank you for your response Tiffany. It's not one I had considered.

Why do you want to be ts?

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I beleive if we CD long enough and actively examine the possibilities behind our own CD motivations, the truth will eventually become evident if we are CD or TS or not. My advice is never to "settle" on a conclusion too soon.

Good advice, Marina.

Is being TS or being CD - simply a question of degree? Degree of urge and motivation? rather than a fundamental psychological difference.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I am not sure just exactly where I am at on the cd scale but I have a very strong urge to become a complete woman. I feel like I am running out of time. I would probably do it now if I did not have the family committment.
It is tricky territory.

I assume you are 44 as your id suggests? Is your 'very strong urge' driven by this sense of urgency to do something before its too late? Or have you always felt strongly that you wanted to be a complete woman.

Fiona xx

[monicawyer]

Ever since I was a child of 9 I've crossdressed. I went through puberty convinced I must be gay. Then realised I wasn't and started dating girls (right to my current partner of three years) It's not until maybe three years ago that I started to think about the future, where I was, how happy I was, how much better I related to girls than boys, remembering my childhood and how I wanted a doll's cot like my sister for Christmas etc etc. Only once I started to really think about what I wanted from life did I start to think of the options. THEN I started to cross dress big time outside of work to the point that I now live as a woman as full time as my job will allow me. That's what really started me thinking - realising how much happier I am living in a female role - and how depressed I feel when I have to go back to being him again.

The dream of taking that big step toward SRS FFS etc and becoming a woman is a very attractive one but the reality of such a move is scarey as hell. The implications on my relationship (something the two of us have just started to discuss), the affect it will have on my career (it will probably kill it stone dead) the options for an alternative career (I'm in a skilled job and have few alternative options as I can currently see) money, my family, my friends.

I think that the realisation of who and what you are can come at any age. Some TS girls are very fortunate to realise their situation early on and then do something about it when the hormones and antiandrogens do their best work (ie as young as possible) A lot of TS girls don't realise until much later in life what it is they've been searching for for so long.

I also think self acceptance has an awful lot to do with it. Denial plays a big part in many circumstances, often due to the complicated lives we make for ourselves. For someone who's married and raising a young family, the implications of coming to terms with who and what you are can have a devastating effect on family and loved ones. So the situation gets swept back under the carpet.

I think that my change in perception came once I had accepted myself as a crossdresser and found the courage to do something about it (I've always been a bit of a coward!). For me it was always the intense desire to go out, doing normal things, just getting on with life. Going out in public is a very scarey thing to do, no matter how good or bad you look as a woman. Only once I was able to do that did I realise how happy (not excited) it made me and in contrast how unhappy I am in my male role. I now see myself as a transsexual and 2006/7 will hopefully see a big change in my life.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Good advice, Marina.

Is being TS or being CD - simply a question of degree? Degree of urge and motivation? rather than a fundamental psychological difference.

Fiona xx

TS, by my definition, is the condition where a bio male feels that he/she is in the wrong body---a male with a female brain, so to speak. Of course they will Cross Dress--they think that they are suposed to be women. more often than not though, having a female brain, they will be sexually attracted to other males. That may be a good indicator, although there are exceptions.

A CD cross dresses to escape from himself for a while or to express what he thinks is his female side---the CD is USUALY hetrosexual (there are some exceptions). there is also a sexual turn on element also (autoerotic) other CDs may have a fetish for female clothing or have a masochistic streak that turns them on.
----CDs also often THINK that they want to become women too, BUT when it all shakes down, its only for the prospects of the ultimate "blast", feeling or whatever CD does for them---But the urge is so great that it is very difficult to see beyond the "becoming a woman" thing.

I think one has to sit back and analyze one's self. Are you Hetro or homo, are you attracted to men--if so is it all the time or under certian conditions? What is the best thing about being a woman? Why do u CD?--etc. One can usually build up a personal profile that can permit a more clear image or reason one might persue becomming a female. It is important that FEELINGS can LIE in this situation driven by strong primal urges, so the more pure facts you can assemble about yourself the easier it will be to compair to known characteristics of real TSs and typical CDs.
Personally, I discovered that I CD for the RUSH I get by crossing IDENTITY lines.---And for the release of stress that exists in my male mode.---I thought i wanted to be a woman too at one time---but really for the above reason--I am sure that it WOULD be a rush and would be relaxing---for a while-- THEN I would be STUCK in another identy with a new set of stresses. NO, SRS is not for CDs, its pointless,. Its only forTS people who need their bodies to match their brains--and become a normally functional human.

[jamie_44]

I think the urge is strong because of the timing. I have also always had strong feelings for wanting to be a girl since I was a young boy.

[FionaAlexis]

I think that my change in perception came once I had accepted myself as a crossdresser and found the courage to do something about it (I've always been a bit of a coward!). For me it was always the intense desire to go out, doing normal things, just getting on with life. Going out in public is a very scarey thing to do, no matter how good or bad you look as a woman. Only once I was able to do that did I realise how happy (not excited) it made me and in contrast how unhappy I am in my male role. I now see myself as a transsexual and 2006/7 will hopefully see a big change in my life.

Thank you very much, Monica. It's an incredibly difficult situation - one the one hand you are happy to have found yourself and on the other hand scared of screwing up your relationship and your future.

So having arrived at this realisation - do you see any possibility that you might reverse your current views or find contentment through some middle path?

Fiona xx

[myrat]

God only knows how i used to feel and still wish i was born a girl. Ever since i can remember i always thought /felt i was a born a girl. During the Queen's Coronation we had a street party and i was dressed as a girl, and this continued when my father went to church !! once a week. Ive worked all my life a a male ( 38 years) but i in my heart and soul i know and feel i am female.Soory to bore you with myexperience but thankyou for this forum, its a life saver!!

[monicawyer]

Hi Fiona,

I've recently started to discuss the whole situation with my partner (actually she started to discuss it with me - she's very smart!). She wants to give me her full support whatever I decide to do. I do feel that should I go the direction I think I should take, our relationship will become a less sexual and more best friend relationship. But I would so happy to still have her a part of my life (and anyway, hugs are far more important than kisses). So I think the relationship (with her, at least) would be OK. Also, a lot of my friends know about me and would support me. As for my family, sister knows and supports, mum and dad TBC. Work wise, as long as I can pay my mortgage, I believe happiness is more important than wealth. I earn a good living from what I do, but it doesn't make me happy - so what's the point?

I think that given my age, and the honest understanding I've come to with myself about what I want from the future , a u-turn in my feelings is unlikely.

As for a middle path, I cannot see one. If I want to live full time for the rest of my life then really there is only one path. But I think that's what the coming year is for - a year to contemplate and prepare. A year to be sure of what I want. I don't want to make the wrong decision - but I do have to make a decision. I think I've made it already but a year of electrolysis and anti androgens will confirm it.

From your questions you sound like you may be having thoughts of a similar nature? I don't wish to pry but am always happy to listen

Monica x

PS - To myrat, don't ever apologise for sharing your feelings - that's what this wonderful place is for. I think it wonderful that you're so sorted inside. That's the most important part. Mx

[MandyTS]

Of course life is not so simple...

What if you are asexual... points fingers to me...

I don't know if I am a boy or a girl right now, and I have feelings both ways. In many ways I am not TS anyway because I am intersex but that is just another label.

While we know that sexual orientation is not directly linked to TS, I would think if you were TS you would like guys.

Personally I am letting my sexual orientation lead the way right now... I can go either way. When you are sterile and no functional you see the world a total other way!


BTW I crossdressed since I was young, but I saw it not as dressing but wearing clothing I liked... of course I realized something was wrong!'

Mandy

[FionaAlexis]

Ive worked all my life a a male ( 38 years) but i in my heart and soul i know and feel i am female.

Hi Myra - do you label yourself TS? Or you don't think about it in those terms.


Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

From your questions you sound like you may be having thoughts of a similar nature? I don't wish to pry but am always happy to listen



Hi Monica,

No, I'm not on the same path. I've been through all psych testing, emotional struggle and self analysis. I think I either don't want it enough or I'm not mentally tough enough to see it through.

I'm simply interested in whether some TSs evolve from years of cd-ing and the development of a female personna rather than an awareness from an early age. I accept that both are transgendered at birth and both end up transsexual.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

What if you are asexual... points fingers to me...

I don't know if I am a boy or a girl right now, and I have feelings both ways. In many ways I am not TS anyway because I am intersex but that is just another label.

While we know that sexual orientation is not directly linked to TS, I would think if you were TS you would like guys.

Personally I am letting my sexual orientation lead the way right now... I can go either way. When you are sterile and no functional you see the world a total other way!


BTW I crossdressed since I was young, but I saw it not as dressing but wearing clothing I liked... of course I realized something was wrong!'

Mandy


Hi Mandy,

So you are intersexed? PAIS? Were you raised as a male and now you live as a female or are in a middle sex?

I think sexuality is quite irrelevant and TSs seem to come in all sexual preferences. I am not a very sexual person and considered myself asexual for some years.

What do you mean by - 'you are letting your sexual orientation lead the way?'

Fiona xx

[MandyTS]

I am a XX XY hybrid, I am a mix of characteristics and structure

(micropenis, some internal feminine parts (felopian tube, and some other stuff taken out when I was young). I have Kallmann's syndrome, my testies do not work, my pitutiary/hypothalimus does not communicate properly, I can not smell, partial taste.

I have not taken hormones for 10 years, the small amount I took when I was young started basic male puberity but I have no facial hair, look 17 etc. Any hormones I take now will push me into one puberty as another although I will have to do alittle work to reverse what testosertone did to me as a kid (voice and mild FFS).

I am basically choosing my sex right now, I can be male or female and I don't know which way to go. In someways I feel more female than male, and manierisms etc lean that way. On the other hand what genetillia I have does not matter, I have no sexual preference... no hormones, no preference, I am basically asexual. I am experiementing and am leaning towards like males over females.

When you are intersexed no assignment will ever be perfect. I am just trying to find the best middle ground, whether it be feminine male or masculine female.

I am writing a book about all of this, in my 23 years I have experienced so much it is increadable.

Just say I would play with dolls, cook and play house, then go outside and play with trucks in the dirt with the boys. I feel pretty, not handsome, I just don't really know, clothing makes no difference and it reality it does not matter what I pick...

I just want to be me... and I have to choose or die an early death... :cry:

Overall I think the outcome of estrogen trials and my overall sexual orientation will determine who I become sexwise. I am of the theory that a persons sexual orientation must be in line with their sex... i.e. I am heterosxual.

Mandy

[FionaAlexis]

Thanks Mandy - very interesting.

Your decision is quite different from a 'conventional' TS - for a TS its a choice between transitioning to their brain gender - or putting up with their genetic gender. For you its a choice between two genders and your brain is attuned to both to different degrees. I guess society demands male or female - though I think I read somewhere in my surfing there are some moves for recognition of intersex as a third gender.


Fiona xx

[MandyTS]

You are exactly right, I feel like a thrid sex. For me the choice is what "sex" can I express who I am the best... and it most regards it is female (due to clothing choice, expression, etc). I want to be in a heterosexual so that is the driving force... it will probably take years for me to find who I am.

Boy side...
I like to race and work on cars, get dirty and greasy, I am a computer nerd, a leader, Race bicycles.

Girl side...
I like to sow, cook, clean, make music, can find my way anywhere, very non assertive, emotional, want my own children, a baby, caring, nutering, etc.

Where is the mix do I lie is a big question. The best thing that I have learned is that any activity is not linked male or female. That has let me rationlize who I am inside and made my life easier.

Unforntunitly my body is falling apart, I just got rid of testicular cancer, now I only have one testie that does not work, my bones are weak at 23 years old. It is a hard choice in reality.

Life is never easy but God made me this way and I will find a way to be that... no op TS, male, female, third gender, etc, it does not matter!

Mandy

[Sarah Smile]

I am in the midst of trying to figure out who I am and am leaning towards the conclusion that I am a TG and may also be a TS (ie, I may want to transition).

I have dressed partially often since I was 10. At first it had a sexual aspect to it, but that soon disappeared. I have discovered that I have always had many feminine characteristics that I'd suppressed, and that the TG in me has been waiting all this time to come out. (I am 32 now.) I have never liked anything about being male and have always been unhappy with my body. I used to think such unhappiness was mainly due to feeling unattractive, but in reality it was mostly my masculinity, I realize now. Because I have a very masculine body, I had never really seriously considered dressing fully. I didn't think it would make me happy, since I'd think of myself as looking like a "guy in a dress", rather than a woman. Lately, that attitude has changed, as I have come to except my inner femininity more. I feel I need to do what I need to do to make myself happy, regardless of what others think. Now I just have to figure out what "that" is. Since I don't have experience in dressing fully and presenting myself as female, I have pretty much limited my public expression right now to what I call "feminine drab", i.e., jewelry, colorful and/or flowery clothes, and other somewhat "feminine" men's clothes.

So, basically, I am at the point now where I am trying to decide how much of my inner being is female and whether or not transitioning in some way would make me happy. I don't know the answer to that yet. Oh, and I am heterosexual right now (attracted to women only), if that makes a difference to your inquery.

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

I beleive there are many TS's hiding out as CD's. They don't want to admit what they know inside is the truth about themselves. They think they are going to take it to thier grave with them, but later in life they begin to regret having not admitted the truth and wonder how thier lives might have been had they had the courage to come out younger when they first longed to be a woman. This was certainly the case with me

As for sexual preference as an indicator? Useless. I have read just recently, although I can not find the article at this moment, that the sexuality of transexuals breaks down as follows. 40% attracted to same biological sex, 40% attracted to opposite biological sex and 20% bisexual. Since sexual preference is determined at a different time in brain developement than our gender identity and our biological sex, it would be hard to say sexual preference is any indicator as to whether or not one is TS or CD.

In the end, only we know. It is what we tell others about ourselves that determines whether or not we are TS, TG, or CD. There is no test to be performed, or blood to be drawn or any other symptom that can say we are transsexual. It is when you feel like you are in the wrong gender body. Others can help us explore what we are feeling, but only we know.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[FionaAlexis]

I have discovered that I have always had many feminine characteristics that I'd suppressed, and that the TG in me has been waiting all this time to come out. (I am 32 now.) I have never liked anything about being male and have always been unhappy with my body. I used to think such unhappiness was mainly due to feeling unattractive, but in reality it was mostly my masculinity, I realize now. Because I have a very masculine body, I had never really seriously considered dressing fully. I didn't think it would make me happy, since I'd think of myself as looking like a "guy in a dress", rather than a woman. Lately, that attitude has changed, as I have come to except my inner femininity more. I feel I need to do what I need to do to make myself happy, regardless of what others think. Now I just have to figure out what "that" is. Since I don't have experience in dressing fully and presenting myself as female, I have pretty much limited my public expression right now to what I call "feminine drab", i.e., jewelry, colorful and/or flowery clothes, and other somewhat "feminine" men's clothes.


Hi Amber,

Thank you for your story which is interesting because you haven't really cross dressed so your female personna has not developed through experiencing 'being a woman'. In some ways it is quite like F2M story I read some time back elsewhere - he had by his own admission the perfect petite female body and dressing seemed impossible.

You are 32 now - when did you start feeling you were transgendered? Do you think you will now move on to dressing fully?

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Hi girls,

I beleive there are many TS's hiding out as CD's. They don't want to admit what they know inside is the truth about themselves. They think they are going to take it to thier grave with them, but later in life they begin to regret having not admitted the truth and wonder how thier lives might have been had they had the courage to come out younger when they first longed to be a woman. This was certainly the case with me



Hi Elizabeth,

I take it you were a lifelong 'CD' who has more recently recognised you are TS. Are you in a similar position as Monica inasmuch you feel time is running out and there is a great urgency to deal with it?

The 'sexuality' breakdown you proved doesn't include 'asexual' ?

Fiona xx

[Helana]

It seems to me that the urge in primary TS comes from the need to get away from their male selves as soon as possible, whereas in secondary TS the urge comes from feeling life is slipping by and your window to transition into a "good looking" woman is closing rapidly.

So long as the state of mind is correct, ie a realistic evaluation that you are simply trading one gender role for another with a different set of problems but that this will make you happier, then it does not really matter when or how you reach that point, transitioning (whether full time of SRS) is the correct path to follow. The danger is in rushing into a decision before you are ready for it.

The question as to whether a CD changes into a TS or if the person was always a TS hiding as a CD, is a chicken and egg story. Until the point of realization the CD will think that he is just a CD with TS fantasies, but after he makes his decision, he will believe he has always been a TS but just afraid to act upon his emotions.

The truth probably lies inbetween. Clearly by deciding upon transitioning in mid life, their gender dysphoria was not that explicit and they lived well enough as a male so there must have been some movement during the years. I think that secondary TS were probably always transgenderists - lying inbetween crossdressers and transsexuals and so had a foot in either camp and so could decide either way. Since we only have one shot of living this life, the desire to try out the alternative is fairly powerful.

A TG has a realistic viewpoint on changing gender not the fantasy wishes of CDs although I suspect that is not the case at all during childhood/teenage years. The TG component in the transgender spectrum is overshadowed by the CD and TS and is not discussed much but I suspect that many secondary TS are to be found there but label themselves as CD.

[FionaAlexis]

It seems to me that the urge in primary TS comes from the need to get away from their male selves as soon as possible, whereas in secondary TS the urge comes from feeling life is slipping by and your window to transition into a "good looking" woman is closing rapidly.......

The question as to whether a CD changes into a TS or if the person was always a TS hiding as a CD, is a chicken and egg story. Until the point of realization the CD will think that he is just a CD with TS fantasies, but after he makes his decision, he will believe he has always been a TS but just afraid to act upon his emotions.


Hi Helana,

I doubt the the urgency to transition later in life is related to good looks and I rather think it can be a raft of reasons like making best use of the time that is left to be a more complete person. Or simply the final acceptance of being TS. Being in a stonger financial position. Being stronger emotionally.

The 'chicken and egg' question is quite important to me - its partly why I'm asking these questions. Among other things, I want to know if there is a percentage of TSs who are sure they were previously CD - and have moved accross the spectrum.

Do you always use the male pronoun to describe CDs and TSs?


Fiona xx

Fiona

[Kate]

Hi all,

I used to think I was "just" a TV when I was younger - I got sexual kicks out of girls things for example, and it was the only term I found that seemed to describe me (oh how things would have been different if I had the Internet then). CDing started to loose interest a few years ago though in my case - I never got all that into it (certainly never went out!) and in the last 5 years or so it has just depressed me since that horrid male face still looked back from the mirror.

Anyway, I never crossdressed all that much, and just tried to supress my feminine ambitions, constructing a totally normal and convincing male persona - I even got married!

Now, however, I have finally been able to admit to myself what I had been hiding all those years, and it has been totally wonderful. :) It is a curious concept to me of a TV thinking they are a TS at a young age - gawds if only I had come across the term in my teens let alone anything else - perhaps I would not have wasted all this time!

Anyway, I firmly fall into what most people would classify as a secondary transsexual - ie. someone who developed a male persona and supressed their true female one, but still had a deep inner desire to be a girl from their teenage years.

However, I would urge caution to all TVish folk who find themselves flirting with the idea of a sex change, or think they are TS. Think long and hard - there are lots of cases of people who transitioned for bad reasons, and often there are clear signs such as them being fairly "hardcore" crossdressers. If it is about the clothes, then don't do it. This article is good:

A WARNING FOR THOSE CONSIDERING MtF SRS (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html)

Katie.

[CaptLex]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xx

Hey, Fiona:

Good question. I think my case is a little different from the others.

In some ways, I think I can say I moved quickly from being CD/TV to TG to TS, but then again it took me about 40 years to figure it out. The reason in my case, I believe, is hormonal. When I was a kid I knew everybody saw a girl when they looked at me, but I was sure I was really a boy. I also knew I couldn't tell anyone 'cause they'd probably put me away. I liked only boy clothes and boy toys and hanging out with the boys. Girls were like aliens to me. :(

But when puberty kicked in, so did all those female hormones that caused me to think maybe I had been mistaken (and giving birth certainly confirmed that diagnosis - although until the day I actually did give birth I kept thinking it was impossible). :eek: I started crossdressing in my early teens (as soon as I was allowed to pick out my own clothes) and continued into my late twenties.

After that I started taking more female hormones to deal with PCOS (poly-cystic ovary syndrome) and my male side went into a coma. At that time I didn't feel completely like either a male or female and my clothes reflected it. I wore mostly non-gender specific clothing and my sexual orientation became asexual (although I was still attracted to boys).

By then I had stopped hanging out with boys because their attitude toward me had changed, and learned to socialize with the girls if I was to have any friends at all (but they're still kind of alien to me). Which brings me to this year. A year ago I voluntarily stopped taking the female hormones and during the past year my male side has returned big time (a little more each month) and my female side has equally diminished.

As far as CDing, at first my desire to crossdress returned, then as months progressed and my male side became stronger, I started to realize that it was more than crossdressing. When I stopped taking the hormones I felt about 25% male and 75% female. After about eight months the feeling was 50/50 and now, a complete year later the pendulum has definitely swung the other way.

I still don't know what I'm going to do about it, but it's nice to feel like me again. It's nice to have my creativity and sex drive return. ;) I feel like I've been blinded by a cloud of hormones for so many years and it's nice to see again. So, to answer your question, even though it took me about 40 years, in the last year I moved quickly from TV to TS. :rolleyes:

[BeckyCath]

This is such an interesting thread, thank you Fiona...

I classify as a Transsexual woman, but from the age of 20 to the abe of 32, i was convinced i was just a transvestite...

I first asked for treatment for my gender issues when i was 19, back in 1992, and as i was depressed, i was refused treatment, and then tried to make a "male life" for myself... wife, children, mortgage, 2 cars, own business and allt he sorts of things people expect from a "succesful" bloke... I even stopped Xdressing because my partner asked me to before we married, so i did for getting on for 6 years. I was so convinced i would never pass as a woman, i was told by the junior psychiatrist who treated me back in 1992 that i was too big, too ugly, too hairy, too tall to ever pass as a woman, and that kind of negative criticism really had an impact on me... I just dived into a "male construction", i took to comfort eating and being quite socially withdrawn, i put weight on, and in that time, i put on about 7 stone...

I always "knew" something was wrong, and for years tried to convince myself i was just a transvestite, but every time i read something about transsexuals, i felt a kind of "kinship" and did never feel that the dry medical/ dictionary definitions of "trnasvestite" didn't really cover me...

It's been a long tough road, and getting to the point where i went out in the wide world as a woman took 32 years, and i shall never forget that night as long as i live... I found that i could go out and pass, i could be "accepted" as a woman...

I knew that night that i should try to seek treatment again, but i took 8 weeks out, and attempted to sort my thoughts out, and then i went into London for a weekend, and spent the whole weekend as a woman, and from then i knew that i should attempt to transition...

I've had to wait for a long time to get into the NHS system, and i am just on the threshold of my first appt at Leicester GIC... but i still don't know if transition is actually for me...

I've already lost my business due to economic conditions rather than my own incompetance, my marriage is a sham, but had been going down hill for a few years anyway... Maybe we'll stay together, maybe we won't...

So Alexis, i don't really know what to say, For all intends and purposes, i am a TV who then identified TS, but then i think i have always been TS, but die to my own life experiences, it was easier to define myself as a TV, as that kind of took the pain away...

I also think my "fundamental" outlook on Christianity had it's toll on me, and shaped some of my thoughts, and for years i thought i was "dirty" and "evil" for wanting to be a woman...

Sorry for the long rambling post, but that's exactly where i've come from...

Rebecca

[myrat]

Hi, in response to your question, i have always felt that i was born in the wrong body, and as a child would regularly pray that by some miracle i could be changed into a girl. My mother would dress me up in my sisters clothes every Sunday,which was the highlight of the week.As i got older this stopped but the urge to crossdress never went away, neither did the feeling of wanting to change sex,and this is still the case.Unfortunately due to domestic commitments and perhaps the lack of "guts" my lifelong dream has not been fullfilled, hence membership of this forum is so helpful. Thanks for getting back to me.

[Sarahgurl371]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xx

Fiona,
A good question for sure. One that I am currently struggling with every day. Started Cding at about 5 or 6. Don't know why, just did. First childhood memory is getting caught. Went thru my teens wishing I was a girl. And becomming very aroused by CDing. Like so many others, I thought this was because I wasn't intimate with anyone. I guess in retrospect, because I have always had such a negative opinion of myself, and I always thought girls had it better than me. I just remember so much wishing I was born a girl instead. I once read somewhere that one of the determining factors of not being a true TS is a thought, real or perceived, that the other sex has it better than your sex. So I guess that I have always thought I must just be a TV/TG because I have always thought women have it better or are better. Although I know that in real life women are often looked at as less than when compared to men.

I also think that if I could transition, and become a woman, fully and be able to pass and just live my life without fear of being ridiculed or outed, and shamed and so on, and was able to support myself, that I would do it in a minute. But on the other hand, I know that I can never be a true woman. Even with all the SRS, FFS, and HRT, I would still be a person who was born male, living as a female. So if I could wake up tomarrow as a real woman, I would absolutely choose that. Not to mention the possibility of chlidren.

I also feel a huge sense of time is passing by. I want to be true to myself, whatever that is. I do not want to wake up one day at the age of 60 or so, and realise that life passed me by, and that I wasted it, conforming to what others wanted me to be. I too have always felt a kinship with TS people. Whenever I read about or see thier stories, I seem to always relate to thier feelings. I don't know if its just because I want so badly to be a woman, or because deep down I should have been born one physically.

I related a scale to my wife one day when we were having a talk about all this, as I was trying to help her understand me. I said that in general terms as in life and such, you know, hunter / gatherer, take care of the male responsibilites, fix the car etc., I feel about 60% maybe 70% male. Sexually though, I feel more like 70% to 80% female.

F M
0%--------------------------------/----------------100% Life in general

M F
0%----------------------------------------/--------100% Sexuality

So for me there is a definate disparity in my life as in day to day events, and sexuality, and emotional feelings. I have such a hard time trying to determine IF I feel like others males emotionally, and such, or If I am truly different than "normal" males emotionally. I find myself lately, not identifying with the so called masculine personality traits, and identifying more with the feminine personality traits. I do not know, at this time, whether that is a real or perceived state of mind. I have been working on these issues for so many years now, and my fear is that i will become blinded and not see the forest thru the trees. The phsyciatrist I saw a while back recommended counseling at the PERSAD center (specializes in gay, lesbian, bi, and TG/TS) in Pittsburgh, and stated that I would probably find out alot about myself. He also stated that sometimes we have a fetish, and hold it up for others to see, so that they will not see what is truly going on under the surface. Kinda like diverting attention from the real issue. That kinda struck me.

My wife objected vehemently to counseling at PERSAD, while I feel her fear, cuz I have it too, I think that it probably would be a good idea. So the more that I think about it, I might label myself a latent transsexual, although that scares me very much. I just want to be sure, ya know? I mean we here all the talk of genetics vs. social conditioning, and I just want to be sure that it isn't social conditioning that makes me feel this way.

Sorry so long!

[Sarah Smile]

Hi Amber,

Thank you for your story which is interesting because you haven't really cross dressed so your female personna has not developed through experiencing 'being a woman'. In some ways it is quite like F2M story I read some time back elsewhere - he had by his own admission the perfect petite female body and dressing seemed impossible.

You are 32 now - when did you start feeling you were transgendered? Do you think you will now move on to dressing fully?

Fiona xx

Hi, Fiona

I guess I only really started feeling transgendered (as in, "I know what transgendered is, and this is what I am) about a year or two ago. Before that, I didn't think of it that way. I saw myself as male, but with many feminine characteristics, i.e. a not-really-macho guy.

I think I will move on to dressing fully, but probably not soon. In a sense, I have not really adjusted to this new worldview that has me as female inside. It is still a strange concept to me. I've only in the past couple of months started thinking of myself as more (much more) than "50% female" inside. So much of my self-image as female was buried for so long that I am wondering if there is more of me I still need to unearth. Part of me does want to dress fully, but frankly I find alot about becoming female daunting and scary. Basically what it boils down to is is that I feel female inside, but do I want to go through all the hassle of making the outside match or do I want to stay a male who is very different from almost all other males? I don't know yet.

[Sarah Smile]

The 'chicken and egg' question is quite important to me - its partly why I'm asking these questions. Among other things, I want to know if there is a percentage of TSs who are sure they were previously CD - and have moved accross the spectrum.


I think it depends on how you define CD and TS. Using myself as an example, if you think of CD as being about behavior, then, yes I was definitely CD before and am either TG or TS now, because my true gender identity was so deeply buried that I was not aware of it. If you think of CD as an internal identity, then I would have to say no, I was always TG or TS, but did not realize it early on, so I behaved as a guy who liked wearing female clothes.

[FionaAlexis]

Anyway, I never crossdressed all that much, and just tried to supress my feminine ambitions, constructing a totally normal and convincing male persona - I even got married!........

Anyway, I firmly fall into what most people would classify as a secondary transsexual - ie. someone who developed a male persona and supressed their true female one, but still had a deep inner desire to be a girl from their teenage years.



Thanks Kate - so you merely flirted with dressing before redefining yourself. What do you think triggered the change in your perception? Was there one moment or one incident? Or a more gradual realisation?

You're not alone in getting married. Are you M2F hetero?

That's a definition of 'secondary TS' I haven't seen before - well the term 'secondary TS' was new to me until recently. I previously recognised the term 'late onset TS'.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Hey, Fiona:

After that I started taking more female hormones to deal with PCOS (poly-cystic ovary syndrome) and my male side went into a coma. At that time I didn't feel completely like either a male or female and my clothes reflected it. I wore mostly non-gender specific clothing and my sexual orientation became asexual (although I was still attracted to boys)......

As far as CDing, at first my desire to crossdress returned, then as months progressed and my male side became stronger, I started to realize that it was more than crossdressing. When I stopped taking the hormones I felt about 25% male and 75% female. After about eight months the feeling was 50/50 and now, a complete year later the pendulum has definitely swung the other way.



Hi CaptLex,

When you were a child were you considered to be a tomboy? I have thought F2M TSs have it easier as a child because their male behaviour is more 'acceptable'. Was that the case?

Your 'femininity' was drug induced but did it remove all gender confusion thoughts from your mind? Or did you still feel unreal and confused and things weren't right?

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I first asked for treatment for my gender issues when i was 19, back in 1992, and as i was depressed, i was refused treatment, and then tried to make a "male life" for myself... wife, children, mortgage, 2 cars, own business and allt he sorts of things people expect from a "succesful" bloke... I even stopped Xdressing because my partner asked me to before we married, so i did for getting on for 6 years. I was so convinced i would never pass as a woman, i was told by the junior psychiatrist who treated me back in 1992 that i was too big, too ugly, too hairy, too tall to ever pass as a woman, and that kind of negative criticism really had an impact on me... I just dived into a "male construction", i took to comfort eating and being quite socially withdrawn, i put weight on, and in that time, i put on about 7 stone...




Hi Rebecca - how are you? I've seen your posts elsewhere.

You really recognised you were TS, or at least were GD, earlier on? I can relate to your bad experiences with the psychiatrist [s]. I also had a bad experience were he final comment after rejection was 'don't go bush' - meaning don't DIY a transition. This also resulted in me trying to shoehorn myself into the normal male life.

Did you marry after your bad psych experience? Or was marriage always on the cards for you?

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I also think that if I could transition, and become a woman, fully and be able to pass and just live my life without fear of being ridiculed or outed, and shamed and so on, and was able to support myself, that I would do it in a minute. But on the other hand, I know that I can never be a true woman. Even with all the SRS, FFS, and HRT, I would still be a person who was born male, living as a female. So if I could wake up tomarrow as a real woman, I would absolutely choose that. Not to mention the possibility of chlidren.



Hi Tammy,

I can relate very much to what you say here. I wrote a piece called 'Unsatisfactory Solutions' which is on here. Can you read it and see if it resonates with you. Do you see your stance as almost TS perfectionist - 'yes I'd transition if I you get the perfect result.'

I understand your scales but is the life in general one - simply because of perceived obligation? Are their times of problem in your male life when you feel I can't respond to this as a male. Or if I was female I would respond differently.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

If you think of CD as an internal identity, then I would have to say no, I was always TG or TS, but did not realize it early on, so I behaved as a guy who liked wearing female clothes.

Thanks Amber.

[FionaAlexis]

i have always felt that i was born in the wrong body, and as a child would regularly pray that by some miracle i could be changed into a girl.

Thanks Myra.

[CaptLex]

Hi CaptLex,

When you were a child were you considered to be a tomboy? I have thought F2M TSs have it easier as a child because their male behaviour is more 'acceptable'. Was that the case?

Your 'femininity' was drug induced but did it remove all gender confusion thoughts from your mind? Or did you still feel unreal and confused and things weren't right?

Fiona xx

Hi again, Fiona:

To answer your questions:

(1) My parents are very "traditional" (for lack of a better word) and very much discouraged me from behaving as anything other than a proper young lady. So, it certainly wasn't acceptable to them that I try to emulate male behavior - although they didn't have a problem with my love of baseball since everyone in the family is a big fan. Also I remember I had a problem in kindergarten when I tried to play with the boys (and their vehicles) - the teacher kept directing me back to the girls' side of the room to play with them (and their dolls). Very sexist nowadays, I think, but back then it was the norm. :(

(2) As to the second question: I think the female hormones made me more confused. I didn't quite feel like myself, but I had no idea why. The only time I felt any sense of normalcy was before the hormones took over and that feeling is returning now that I've stopped taking them. As I described it to my son, for all that time I felt like an arm had been cut off and I had to learn to live without it (possible, but not preferable), but now it feels like my arm has miraculously returned and I'd do anything to make sure I never lose it again. :rolleyes:

This has been an interesting topic - I've learned a lot from all the other responses. :)

[FionaAlexis]

As to the second question: I think the female hormones made me more confused. I didn't quite feel like myself, but I had no idea why. The only time I felt any sense of normalcy was before the hormones took over and that feeling is returning now that I've stopped taking them. As I described it to my son, for all that time I felt like an arm had been cut off and I had to learn to live without it (possible, but not preferable), but now it feels like my arm has miraculously returned and I'd do anything to make sure I never lose it again. :rolleyes:

This has been an interesting topic - I've learned a lot from all the other responses. :)

Well a few of my preconceived notions are out the window.

I'm getting off my main questions now - but how did you deal with 'motherhood'? Many of M2Fs have fathered children and some of us wish we were mothers. My own partner is always sensitive to the two 'mothers' syndrome and will remind me - even though I am not full time.

Fiona xx

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,


Hi Elizabeth,

I take it you were a lifelong 'CD' who has more recently recognised you are TS. Are you in a similar position as Monica inasmuch you feel time is running out and there is a great urgency to deal with it?

The 'sexuality' breakdown you proved doesn't include 'asexual' ?

Fiona xx

FionaAlexis,

It was not that I recently discovered I was TS, I have known since I was 9 years old. What I meant when I said "hiding out as crossdressers", was that I thought by underdressing, and crossdressing when I could, I could satisfy the need. However, it turns out that it usually does not meet the need. It seems that it takes until around age 40 for one to realize that one gets tired of hating oneself for not accepting the truth about our gender. In my case I took 35 vicodin in an attempt to kill myself before I decided to accept the truth about me.

I know there are those who do not realize they are TS until later in life. I was refering more to those who have known since childhood, but denied it. Sorry I was not clear on this point.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[FionaAlexis]

It was not that I recently discovered I was TS, I have known since I was 9 years old. What I meant when I said "hiding out as crossdressers", was that I thought by underdressing, and crossdressing when I could, I could satisfy the need.


Thank you Elizabeth. I understand.

I hope things are going well for you now.

Fiona xx

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I'm simply interested in whether some TSs evolve from years of cd-ing and the development of a female personna rather than an awareness from an early age. I accept that both are transgendered at birth and both end up transsexual.

Richard Docter in his "Transvestite and Transsexuals" (which is one of the more in-depth works on CDing) argued that there are a few cases where CDs develop a secondary feminine personality that eventually replaces the original male personality, leading them to transition. As Helana said, it can be a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, since would-be transitioners may retroactively decide they were always TS. In some sense it's irrelevant, if regardless of the origin if someone decide they can't continue living as their birth gender.

[FionaAlexis]

Thanks Marlena - and I have quoted similar thoughts myself elsewhere. I simply want to see how people see themselves and if anyone sees themselves as formerly a CD or TV. Or if anyone feels they are moving towards being TS.

I don't think any of the responses so far don't really substantiate the development of a female/male personna. My conception would be of a long time dresser, who has probably been going out as a female/male and this activity has increased over time until the female/male personna becomes the more dominant. Those people who have responded seem mostly inexperienced or less experienced CD-ers, who have not spent enough time in their self assessed gender to feed an internalisation path.

Fiona xx

[CaptLex]

I'm getting off my main questions now - but how did you deal with 'motherhood'? Many of M2Fs have fathered children and some of us wish we were mothers. My own partner is always sensitive to the two 'mothers' syndrome and will remind me - even though I am not full time.

Fiona xx

Well, parenthood has been interesting for me. I say parenthood instead of motherhood because I guess I always felt like my son's mother and father at the same time - but maybe it's because I'm a single parent. In fact, when he was little (he's 24 now) he'd sometimes call me "Mom" and sometimes "Pop". And I've always told him I'm glad he was born a boy because we always had fun playing with his toys together, and if I had a girl I may have had to play with things I don't like (like Barbies). :rolleyes:

Even as a kid I remember knowing that I wanted children someday, and even though I had a hard time believing I could have them physically, I hoped I could because I really wanted to know what the whole experience would be like. Once it happened, I was happy to have been through it, but it wasn't something I thought I needed to go through again. But I'm glad I had him and, in fact, I console myself about not coming to terms with my situation sooner by saying that if I had, I may not have had my son, and he's very important to me, so things happened the way they happened for a reason. :)

I am happy and relieved that my son is a happy, smart, funny, caring, mature, open-minded/tolerant individual who thinks on his own and doesn't follow the crowd. I hope I had something to do with that, but in either case, I'm very proud of him and we get along really well and have lots in common. Actually, it may sound strange, but I felt almost from the day he was born that he and I were so connected we must have known each other in another life. We've both always known that I'm not like other mothers, and now we know why and can laugh about it. Fortunately, my being different didn't hinder his upbringing or our relationship. :D

[Sarahgurl371]

Hi Tammy,

I can relate very much to what you say here. I wrote a piece called 'Unsatisfactory Solutions' which is on here. Can you read it and see if it resonates with you. Do you see your stance as almost TS perfectionist - 'yes I'd transition if I you get the perfect result.'

I understand your scales but is the life in general one - simply because of perceived obligation? Are their times of problem in your male life when you feel I can't respond to this as a male. Or if I was female I would respond differently.

Fiona xx

Fiona, I read your post "unsatisfactory solutions". It definatley struck an accord with me. Especially the part about questioning and thinking about gender everyday. I have always wondered if "normal" people ever question thier gender. I have to imagine that they probably do not, and I very much envy that fact. I have been caught up in this quagmire of what am I for so long now, and have spent, (don't know about wasted), so much time and energy, fighting and struggling both for myself and against myself. Sometimes I just wish for peace and quiet in my head. Can you relate to that?

It also concerns me that maybe this all is an unhealty obsession, and not a fact of life for me. I guess that is why I sought counseling. I just want to make sure that I do not have an addiction or something along those lines. If these are the true facts of my life, I will deal with them. But if I am unhealty mentally, I need to know that and fix it.

As far as the TS Perfectionist part, I would suppose that all of us (humans), want to be our best. That means look our best, be better people personality wise, the best in our careers etc. So as far as being a total woman, its not for vanity reasons. I would be very happy to just be a normal looking female, able to get by in the world. But I often wonder, if I transitioned, would all this "stuff" go away, and I would just be me, and peaceful, and happy? And would i feel natural? Would I like what I see looking back at me? Or would I feel about myself, like I think other people think about people like us?

As far as my scales go, yes, I do beleive a certain amount of that to be social conditioning. Although my parents both know and have expressed support for my CDing activities, I do not think they know how deep this runs. How could they, I don't. But that being said, I was raised by a very strong man, my father, who raised me to be a very strong man as well. I was taught responsibilty above all else. And since I live as a man, I assume all that responsibility. Many times in my life I have not felt like a man dealing with an issue, but I have to suck it up, and prevail above those situations. I have never been very aggressive, and certainlly not a fighter. I have never been in a fist fight. While I know that is not a precursor for being male, I can't help but think of friends who are so overtly masculine and agressive in thier everday life. Maybe thats where some of my problem lies with others. I always show every one else compassion and respect, and give them opportunity and chance to be themselves and allow thier perceived shortcommings, or idiosyncracies. All the while expecting that in return. But seldom receive it. And another point on responsibilities, I often wonder now if I am using my responsibility as a husband to keep me kind of restrained from following my self. thinking to my self that I will ruin her life.

Perhaps that is what is so damn confusing about all this to me. I do not think that I view the world with male eyes. But I was born male, and raised as such. Why then do I have all these feelings and struggles with my gender identity? Which is what leads me to believe that there is something more under the surface, that I have yet to discover. At least I hope so. Cuz otherwise I must just be insane and making all this up.

[BeckyCath]

Hi Rebecca - how are you? I've seen your posts elsewhere.

Hi Fiona, I'm doing well thank you, how are you? Been missing you in the english Rose garden...



You really recognised you were TS, or at least were GD, earlier on?
Yes i guess i did... i always identified easier with the girls, and i remember at about age 5, one of my cousin dressing me as a girl, for a "family play" with her brother and my brother, and i remember doing the part, and feeling like i was actually being real... but i didn't actually conect then, it took me till i was a bout 13 to realise, and every night i went to bed and prayed that i would wake up female, and this male lark would have been some awful night mare...


I can relate to your bad experiences with the psychiatrist [s]. I also had a bad experience were he final comment after rejection was 'don't go bush' - meaning don't DIY a transition. This also resulted in me trying to shoehorn myself into the normal male life.

They can easily screw someone up... but back in the early 90's, even tho it was more "acceptable" not as much theorising and research had ben done, so we were kind of stuck with old school stuff, and if the psychiatrist had no interest in gender psychology, then there was no help given really...


Did you marry after your bad psych experience? Or was marriage always on the cards for you?

I married after my breakdown, i married at 23, 2 weeks before my 24th birthday, and i had spent the prior 3 years trying to get my head round my feelings... The night i told my partner to be i was a transvestite... i had decided if she ditched me i would move back up north and transition...

Sometimes i wish she had ditched me, there would have been less complications like there is now, but then i wouldn't have had 10 years life experience that has mouldd my character for the better... it's a double edged sword i guess...

Does this help?

Rebecca

[Deborah757]

What comes first, CD or TS? In my case I cannot honestly remember. I started to CD around age 10 when I was in the seventh grade. I also recognized myself as TS at the same time. I specifically remember that at around that time (1971) I realized that I was a boy and that I felt I was supposed to be a girl. I even had all sorts of fantasy daydreams about how technology or science could fix that problem.

I didn’t know what a TS was or that even such a thing existed. I only knew what I felt to be the truth. I didn’t even realize that I was not the only one who felt this way until I saw a picture in Hustler Magazine a few years later :D

At the time, I did not really even know what the differences between boys and girls were. Of course I knew that I had something that they did not, but I had no idea that they had something else. In hindsight, even I find this hard to believe, but it is true. I do remember the specific incident, around this same time, when my friend’s sister informed me as to the difference between the two.

As I look back over my early years I cannot point to anything that would indicate that I knew was I was TS or anything that can prove I was not. I only remember being in ignorant bliss as to the true nature of the differences between male and female.

So, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Who am I? What am I? Does anyone really know?

Deborah

[FionaAlexis]

Fiona, I read your post "unsatisfactory solutions". It definatley struck an accord with me. Especially the part about questioning and thinking about gender everyday. I have always wondered if "normal" people ever question thier gender. I have to imagine that they probably do not, and I very much envy that fact. I have been caught up in this quagmire of what am I for so long now, and have spent, (don't know about wasted), so much time and energy, fighting and struggling both for myself and against myself. Sometimes I just wish for peace and quiet in my head. Can you relate to that?

It also concerns me that maybe this all is an unhealty obsession, and not a fact of life for me. I guess that is why I sought counseling. I just want to make sure that I do not have an addiction or something along those lines. If these are the true facts of my life, I will deal with them. But if I am unhealty mentally, I need to know that and fix it.



Thank you for your post Tammy.

Yes, I can relate very much to need for peace of mind. In fact I've written two poems with that thought.

I have though of it as unhealthy just wasteful.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I married after my breakdown, i married at 23, 2 weeks before my 24th birthday, and i had spent the prior 3 years trying to get my head round my feelings... The night i told my partner to be i was a transvestite... i had decided if she ditched me i would move back up north and transition...

Sometimes i wish she had ditched me, there would have been less complications like there is now, but then i wouldn't have had 10 years life experience that has mouldd my character for the better... it's a double edged sword i guess...

Does this help?

Rebecca

Yes, thanks Rebecca.

It interesting that you made that assessment. I sense that in retrospect you would have taken the other option - of travelling North.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

[FONT=Century Gothic]As I look back over my early years I cannot point to anything that would indicate that I knew was I was TS or anything that can prove I was not. I only remember being in ignorant bliss as to the true nature of the differences between male and female.

So, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Who am I? What am I? Does anyone really know?

Deborah

Hi Deborah,

I'm learning as I go and I think the underlying question is not so much about the labels - but about feelings and intentions.

I think most of us thought we were different things when we were young - and my dictionary was dog eared around the 'transvestite' page.

Even in your blissful ignorance. Did you feel you wanted to be female with any intensity? Or has that developed over time? Or is it not the case.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

i am a cd/tv wanting to be a ts

Hi Tiffany,

I think I may have not given your post enough thought. But I am interested in what you mean? Why do you want to be ts?

Fiona xx

[Sierra]

Hi Fiona, Easy to say that but very hard to do,but life is short and the truth will set us free,if we will demonstrate it.You would be a great host for a TV show,he he.Anyway I keep a leash on myself to not go so far I loose the things that keep me going or happy.So 30+ years later and 6 years of hormones am I ts well probally by most descriptions but maybe not.I'am out as a guy with boobs and cder sure,but dont present myself as a woman to spare the feelings of my family and friends.Yes it starts somewhere like cding,and ends when we die and until then it grows like fire .Never say never as to ohh..its only a panty thing for me,..I'm 100% hetro,I could never do that [post opp]. Very thoughtful questions you ask,we have met at Rose's before a couple of years ago,who knows what changes we will see in our trans ---- trip,for me it is at least a little bigger boobs as each year passes and only we can control ourselves if we choose too as to how far on the CD---TS spectrum we go.I love my family as much so I reside in between a man and a woman where we can coexist contently with those who dont care for our ways.

[FionaAlexis]

Hi Fiona, Easy to say that but very hard to do,but life is short and the truth will set us free,if we will demonstrate it.You would be a great host for a TV show,he he.Anyway I keep a leash on myself to not go so far I loose the things that keep me going or happy.So 30+ years later and 6 years of hormones am I ts well probally by most descriptions but maybe not.I'am out as a guy with boobs and cder sure,but dont present myself as a woman to spare the feelings of my family and friends.Yes it starts somewhere like cding,and ends when we die and until then it grows like fire .Never say never as to ohh..its only a panty thing for me,..I'm 100% hetro,I could never do that [post opp]. Very thoughtful questions you ask,we have met at Rose's before a couple of years ago,who knows what changes we will see in our trans ---- trip,for me it is at least a little bigger boobs as each year passes and only we can control ourselves if we choose too as to how far on the CD---TS spectrum we go.I love my family as much so I reside in between a man and a woman where we can coexist contently with those who dont care for our ways.

Hi Sierra,

Yes, I do remember you - you and I were often the only two left on the Board when the Brits had all gone to sleep. But not as Sierra.

You are very much an example of taking a different route. Are YOU content in your middle path? Or is it a sacrifice?

Fiona xx

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

My conception would be of a long time dresser, who has probably been going out as a female/male and this activity has increased over time until the female/male personna becomes the more dominant.

That's essentially Docter's description of it. Incidentally Docter was a friend of Virginia Prince and after reading his biography of Prince I suspect much of that particular theory was modeled on Prince. Prince started going out in public in her teens and essentially spent years "practicing" for going full-time, which she did in her late 50s (after a divorce and selling her company, which allowed her to retire). Interestingly, Prince's hostility towards SRS seemingly stemmed from her love of the sexual aspects of crossdressing, which was the one part of maleness she refused to give up.

[FionaAlexis]

Interestingly, Prince's hostility towards SRS seemingly stemmed from her love of the sexual aspects of crossdressing, which was the one part of maleness she refused to give up.

Thanks Marlena. We had a disciple of VCP here - who was quite vocal about GRS being merely about 'fixing the plumbing'. In fact she made a couple of television appearances in the early '80s.

Fiona xx

[Julie]

I don't believe anyone CHANGES into a TS. If they feel like they are changing it's probably due to allowing awareness of it to come into their conscious mind. There's never been a day in my life that I haven't at some point daydreamed about being transformed into a woman or wished I was born female. I truly believe I would be happier being female but only if I was born that way or transitioned before puberty. I just can't see being happy trying to make this body I have today into a woman. Too much testosterone damage.

I was in denial about these feelings for a long time. One day I was online and took the COGIATI test. The results came back 'probable transsexual'. I started crying. Not because I thought this test was infallible but because I knew that was how I'd always felt and I knew the pain and suffering, both emotional and physical, that lay ahead if I took this path.

We are who we are but societal pressures can encourage us to deny who we are. Conformity seems like such a powerful need in many of us. As for me, I used denial to help my mental gender appear to match my body gender. But that never changed how I felt. It just meant I'd have a battle brewing inside me as long as I did that.

Today I know who I am. My only regret is I denied that for so long.

[Christina Nicole]

I have to agree with Julie. One either is a TS or is not TS. One may consider oneself to be a crossdresser until the realization that one really is TS. If you reference the Harry Benjamin Scale (http://www.twentyclub.org/docs/bscale.html), you'll find a "rainbow" of gender identities. Someone who is moderately TS, may identify as a crossdresser since that's close enough for what works for his/her life. I identify myself as a crossdresser, but I'm actually more of a 4+ on the Benjamin scale. But transitioning would mess up my life, which is pretty good, so I "settle" for being a crossdresser. If I were younger, and knew what I know now, maybe, just maybe... things would be different.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[FionaAlexis]

I have to agree with Julie. One either is a TS or is not TS. One may consider oneself to be a crossdresser until the realization that one really is TS. If you reference the Harry Benjamin Scale (http://www.twentyclub.org/docs/bscale.html), you'll find a "rainbow" of gender identities. Someone who is moderately TS, may identify as a crossdresser since that's close enough for what works for his/her life. I identify myself as a crossdresser, but I'm actually more of a 4+ on the Benjamin scale. But transitioning would mess up my life, which is pretty good, so I "settle" for being a crossdresser. If I were younger, and knew what I know now, maybe, just maybe... things would be different.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

Hi Christina,

I think as you've alluded things are a lot more complex than any scale or any compilation of labels and definitions.

You are not alone in settling for a lesser position - or reflecting 'if only....' But it seems to me that those [who are transgendered] who move to the next level have some extra motivation or are maybe more adaptable or adventurous people.

Fiona xx

[MandyTS]

Even within the gender continium there are interesting dynamics.

A person can be TS and NOT be a serious CD (or even a CD)

A person can be a CD and NOT be a TS

A person can be a CD and a TS...

And everything in the middle.


I will wear a piece of feminine clothing once in a while, not because I feel I as crossdressing but because I am displaying the female part of my genetics. I personally do not even know if I will fully transistion, but I know I will be part female all my life... nothing can change that...

I believe you are Born TS, (or whatever label is approprate).

Mandy

[FionaAlexis]

We are who we are but societal pressures can encourage us to deny who we are. Conformity seems like such a powerful need in many of us. As for me, I used denial to help my mental gender appear to match my body gender. But that never changed how I felt. It just meant I'd have a battle brewing inside me as long as I did that.

Today I know who I am. My only regret is I denied that for so long.


Hi Julie,

When you were in your 'denial' phase, did you feel you were acting out a role? Or did you express yourself emotionally in your true gender?

Fiona xx

[Pinny Pinafore]

Like Christine, I fall somewhere between 4 and 5 on the Harry Benjamin scale. Yet I've never thought of myself as TS, and never had any hankering for full SRS. I'm happy as I am, and quite comfortable to be thought TG - like a lot of girls I think I just slip between the CD / TS divide, neither one nor the other. Would have been interested to try the COGIATI test, if only out of curiosity, but can't access the transsexual.org website.

I'm 55 in a week's time, and that just feels like far too old to be worrying about what label I wear; maybe thirty years ago it would all have seemed important, now I'm just happy that I'm comfortable with myself.

Love to you all

Pinny
xxxx

[BeckyCath]

Please don't take the COGIATI as a proper test, it's not, it's easily fooled, and in my opinion, plays on the stereotypical. I know of girls who have based their whole transition on the scores from the COGIATI test, buit i wouldn't base anything off the web, i'd rather consult a medical professional who is an expert in the gender field.

When i was in denial, i took the test and came out as androgenous, but after i had released my demons, i came out class 5 TS... wow how things change...

I think it takes alot of guts to admit things to oneself, and especially to others, and sitting in a Dr's office and going through intensely personal things whilst being checked over to an unknown "list" would show up the average cross dresser, yes i know in America it's an entirely different system, and most girls pay for treatment, and the cycnic in me thinks how many girls are diagnosed to gaurantee an income stream for the gender psychiatrist?

The thing is why would i want to fool endless series of doctors and spend 2 or 3 years doing it repeatedly?

I think, for me, i had to do alot of growing up, and i didn't fully mature till i was in my 30's and was stable enough to face my deep issues...

Rebecca

[Deborah757]

Hi Deborah,

I'm learning as I go and I think the underlying question is not so much about the labels - but about feelings and intentions.

I think most of us thought we were different things when we were young - and my dictionary was dog eared around the 'transvestite' page.

Even in your blissful ignorance. Did you feel you wanted to be female with any intensity? Or has that developed over time? Or is it not the case.

Fiona xx

When I was around 10 or 11 the feeling of wanting to be female was so intense as to be an obsession. I prayed to God to make me change. I even dreamed about it. Then I got caught CDing and was sent away to an environment where I had to suppress it. I may be TS but I am also smart enough to adapt to survive.

Today I am continually trying to psychoanalyze myself to try and put a finger on why and when this started. But I have a problem remembering anything before this point. I can remember my whole life after with clarity, but everything before is in fragments. It’s almost like that is when I really began to exist. Maybe it’s normal not to remember ones childhood so clearly or maybe I am blocking something. I don’t know, but I am going to keep on trying to remember. I do remember a few things that always made me feel different, although I do not remember them to be specifically tied to any gender issues.

· I was extremely introverted and preferred to read over other activities. I hated social situations and especially being around strangers. This is probably more tied to my personality type, INFP, than anything else. Although I have read that many TSs are INFPs. I also recognized in myself a high degree of empathy and the ability to relate to anyone. This has actually turned out to be a very good characteristic over the years enabling me to get along with just about anyone in any situation.
· I had a highly active imagination. Once when I was five I watched the original BW movie “The Haunting�. It scared me so bad I actually threw up and then had vivid nightmares for several years.
· I was poor at sports and hated PE although I did like outside activities with my friends.
· I always thought I looked funny and did not think I looked like other boys. I have always thought my hairline looked strange.
· In first grade, I think, some boy came to school wearing nail polish. I have no idea why he did that. Anyway, I do remember going home and trying it on myself.
· I liked to cook, and still do for that matter.
· I remember clearly in sixth grade thinking I needed to prove myself and picking a fight during recess. Very bad idea and very bad for the health of one’s nose. Does this show I was really normal, or was I trying to compensate for something I didn’t even recognize.

This remains very confusing for me because apart from the TS feelings, which are now stronger than ever, CDing means nothing to me. I think I am TS but always in my mind is the thought that since I can’t say I knew it from my first conscious thought, like some others say, then maybe it’s all simply a figment of my imagination. That would lead to the conclusion of delusion and insanity.

Maybe none of what I wrote really means anything. But it’s all I’ve got right now while I continue trying to put the pieces together.

One other thing I do know is that when my mother was pregnant she was given DES to prevent miscarriage. There is proof that this type of drug does cause gender abnormalities in animals and evidence to suggest it does the same in humans.

Deborah

[Sierra]

Hi Fiona, Yes you are correct and thanks for respecting my new ID,even though there is nothing to hide or inconcistent my my posts in both names.I feel content,even lucky to have my wife and sons and they seem to be able to handle me as a combination male/female dad/husband.Dressing to present myself as a female is more than they can take.Yet I can do HRT,use vacuum domes,lactate,wear allways womens clothes in an androgenous fashion only no dresses in front of our boys 5 and 10 years old now.Happy New Years to Ya [your a hellava cool lady],I got a keg of ale[7%] and 1/1/06 is my B-day PARRRRRTTTTTY!

[ldblake]

I have to agree with Julie. One either is a TS or is not TS. One may consider oneself to be a crossdresser until the realization that one really is TS. If you reference the Harry Benjamin Scale (http://www.twentyclub.org/docs/bscale.html), you'll find a "rainbow" of gender identities. Someone who is moderately TS, may identify as a crossdresser since that's close enough for what works for his/her life. I identify myself as a crossdresser, but I'm actually more of a 4+ on the Benjamin scale. But transitioning would mess up my life, which is pretty good, so I "settle" for being a crossdresser. If I were younger, and knew what I know now, maybe, just maybe... things would be different.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

I would beg to differ. A lot of transgendered people crossdress, darned few of them are transsexual. What happens, with frightening regularity, is that people find themselves oppressed and lonely because of their crossdressing and latch on to sex-change as a way to escape the secrecy of it all... They get into an exaggeration that ultimately leads them to the conclusion they are transsexuals... because their need to escape the oppression is so strong.

Coming Out accomplishes the same thing with a darned sight less expense and hassle. If one can accept oneself, then they are prepared to deal with the world. If one cannot, exaggerations and mistakes happen... a lot.

A true transsexual is someone who cannot turn it down. Someone who just can't accept themselves as they are --right now, today-- and will most likely harm themselves if not given a way out of the dilemma. Often as not these are situations where transphobia is absorbed and believed, then applied against oneself -- Internalized Transphobia. When it's severe enough one cannot understand their way out of it, relief is all that matters and SRS becomes appropriate.

It is rare indeed that one progresses through Benjamin's scale starting off as a CD then discovering they want more... Almost always it's the other way around... One starts off as a TS and as they work through the issues and transphobia diminishes, self-acceptance grows most often leading them to decide against SRS. Only about 1 in 100 transgendered people have SRS... the other 99 come to understand themselves in a way that doesn't mandate it.

[FionaAlexis]

I would beg to differ. A lot of transgendered people crossdress, darned few of them are transsexual. What happens, with frightening regularity, is that people find themselves oppressed and lonely because of their crossdressing and latch on to sex-change as a way to escape the secrecy of it all... They get into an exaggeration that ultimately leads them to the conclusion they are transsexuals... because their need to escape the oppression is so strong.

Coming Out accomplishes the same thing with a darned sight less expense and hassle. If one can accept oneself, then they are prepared to deal with the world. If one cannot, exaggerations and mistakes happen... a lot.



Is this your personal experience?

[FionaAlexis]

Can I just ask that the thrust of this thread be kept to your own personal experiences.

I can understand that you may have a view on 'who is' and 'who isn't' a TS. And how you believe things are. Or on one psych theory vs another. I appreciate those who have shared information so far but I don't want an ongoing debate on those issues so that they dominate the thread.

Fiona xx

[Darlena]

Ever since I was a little one.., I've always tried to see myself as a little girl. And I was treated that way, often enough to reinforce the idea that "Girls" often have the advantage of being the `sweet ones', etc. and could always wear the real nice garments.I did not have to play all of those stupid `boy' games." And so, you might think that I may be, `trapped'...but.., `Trapped', is truely of my own devise now. Kiss, kiss,

[FionaAlexis]

This remains very confusing for me because apart from the TS feelings, which are now stronger than ever, CDing means nothing to me. I think I am TS but always in my mind is the thought that since I can’t say I knew it from my first conscious thought, like some others say, then maybe it’s all simply a figment of my imagination. That would lead to the conclusion of delusion and insanity.

Maybe none of what I wrote really means anything. But it’s all I’ve got right now while I continue trying to put the pieces together.

Deborah

Thank you for your detailed response Deborah.

I can relate to a lot of your experiences. I assume you were sent away to a male only boarding school of some type.

Cd-ing means a lot to me inasmuch as it allows me to present as a female even for a short time.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Ever since I was a little one.., I've always tried to see myself as a little girl. And I was treated that way, often enough to reinforce the idea that "Girls" often have the advantage of being the `sweet ones'...

Hi Darlena,

I think a lot of us still attribute our 'nice' traits to our 'sugar and spice' - female side.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Hi I feel content,even lucky to have my wife and sons and they seem to be able to handle me as a combination male/female dad/husband.Dressing to present myself as a female is more than they can take.Yet I can do HRT,use vacuum domes,lactate,wear allways womens clothes in an androgenous fashion only no dresses in front of our boys 5 and 10 years old now.Happy New Years to Ya [your a hellava cool lady],I got a keg of ale[7%] and 1/1/06 is my B-day PARRRRRTTTTTY!

You're the cool one Sierra! Happy Birthday! Fiona xx

[susiej]

FionaAlexis,

I've been an ardent female-wannabe since age 10 or so. I don't have the stereotypical TS feeling that I'm a girl trapped in a guy's body -- I just have always wanted, desired, wished, needed to be female.

Dressing for me is not a kick unto itself; rather, it's a chance for me to get as close to being female as I can get without making any permanent changes, which are out of the question for me for practical reasons.

I suppose the fact that I'm able to rule out transitioning for "practical" reasons means that I'm not a true TS -- yet I feel that my need is a lot more fundamental than just the desiring to wear the clothes.

So, that puts me north of CD/TV, but south of TS. Or, for you in Australia, the other way around :) . I just read the Benjamin standard, and I put myself right at level 4, non-surgical TS.

Hugs,
Susie

[Joy N. Wearing]

Dear Mandy TS and the other girls

This has been one of the most interesting and thought provoking posts we have seen in a long time.

Mandy, thank you for your in-depth discussion on our little world and how it is so similar to the other girls and again just how different we are because of the additional brain trauma we face. Legally I am a male, it is so on my driver’s license, on my birth certificate it has no mention of gender as I was born with both sexes, I am an XXY. It was decided when I was 1 year old that my sex would be changed to male and my female part was sewn shut, however, brain sex in humans is very real and I am inside as much of a woman as any Genetic Girl. And after keeping my little secret to myself for 61 years, I have just kicked the doors off the closet, I am a CD/TV/TS/ intersexed ( XXY ) who is just now coming to understand what and who I am.

As far as have been able to uncover the evidence to date, when I was 5 years old I was given massive shots of testosterone because I had “feminine tendenciesâ€� and in those days (the 40’s), that was totally unacceptable for a male child to display. I was given these shots continuously until I was around the age of16 when I guess the powers that be (the doctors, I don’t blame my parents) felt they had achieved there success, because they produced a kick ass kid, full of rage and incredible strength. Sometime when we have an hour or two I will explain my life as an XXY and how I have had to be a Manley man all my life, it dose get a little confusing even to me but it’s me, just like a Million other transsexuals, I walk like a man, talk like a man, think like a man ßÃ* woman, I feel like a woman inside as I have sense I was 4 years old. Now that I have raised my family and lived up to my parental role as husband, father, provider, protector and leader, maybe now there is some time left in this world for me. We are the sum of our life’s experiences, yes I am a man because I have lived as one for 65 years and yes, I am a woman because within me, my spirit, my sole, my very being is a woman. When I speak as a man I am one and when I speak as a woman, I am one.

I am very fortunate to have had the good fortune to have lived the life that I have. I love life and all that it has to offer, my six kids (Adopted as I too am unable to have children) and 15 grand kids and I am also the most happily married monogamous (wo)man in the world and my wife is my Eternal Companion and best friend whom I love with all of my being. I have been dressing EnFem as the woman I am for all but the first 4 years of my 65 years of life and I have admired everything that is feminine with grate admiration and hope that I to truly epitomize the attributes of womanhood, softness and gentleness. A female is a gender identity; but a woman is feminine, soft, gracious, kind, gentle and compassionate. Her true beauty shines brighter from within than from any other expression. I am a woman and this is how I will live the rest of my life.

Debbie Austin:p
debbieaustin@juno.com

[Deborah]

I am technically a CD i suppose. I've felt female though for longer then i can remember but i don't think i will ever transition.

[Deborah_UK]

Reading through these posts, so many of them echo my own life and experiences.

I can vividly recall at the age of five or six praying every night that the following morning God would have turned me into the girl I so strongly felt I needed to be, but when I recounted this to the doctor at the Gender Clinic in Nottingham he clearly didn't believe me, suggesting that I had imposed these memories upon myself subsequently - I don't know for sure if he was just testing my resolve or what, but I have memories going back to when I was three (or one specific memory anyway).

For several reasons I am unlikely to transition, but I know in my heart of hearts three was a mistake when I was born and I should have been female, but for so many years I denied those feelings and considered myself as a transvestitite (the term crossdresser was not being used back then in the 70s).

So (to get back to the original thread and away from my ramblings) I could be seen by outsiders as a CD moving through to TS, but in my instance I think I've always been TS, just took a long time to realise it.

[MandyTS]

Joy,

It seems like we live in our own little world, each having our own tendencies, etc just like the many degrees of intersexed. I am X0/XY I have found out, my external genetilla look like a infant sized (maybe a bit bigger) male but inside in half male and half female. I have larger than normal hip bones but a slightly more male facial structure.

Unlike many TS people we are a little of both sexes and I remember that as I learn to, for example carry a purse. I think it is imposable to hide the two versions of ourselves we find inside and as one doctor told me, most intersexed people are never really happy with either gender. That said we make the best choice we can for ourselves and leave it at that.

Good Luck,
Mandy

[Deborah757]

Thank you for your detailed response Deborah.

I can relate to a lot of your experiences. I assume you were sent away to a male only boarding school of some type.

Cd-ing means a lot to me inasmuch as it allows me to present as a female even for a short time.

Fiona xx

I got sent away to Military School when I was 13. That began 28 years in a strictly military environment. I guess I fooled them all though. I punched all the right tickets and became the masculine warrior I was expected to be.

But the voices in my head were always there telling me it was all an act. (Not real voices like I am schizophrenic, more like a constant, never-ending, conscious thought). It might go away for a while when I am occupying my mind elsewhere, but it always comes back. From a philosophical angle, maybe that constant stream of thought is really just the ego (I) and only seems so apparent to me because it diverges from physical reality. Maybe its there for everyone and most others just don’t consciously notice it.

I don’t think I have ever really denied it. I have certainly tried to ignore it at times and often wished that it would be taken away. But I think I recognized the impossible reality of it from the day I became aware it existed.

From your description of how you feel about CDing, that’s pretty much how I feel also. I just don’t have much opportunity these days to do it right.

Deborah

[Sarahgurl371]

Two quick questions:

1. The Benjamin Scale - Does anyone think it is a very subjective scale, and not meant for us to determine a level for ourselves? I can identify with something at every level. But would have to classify a 3 or 4. Shouldn't this tool be applied by an objective gender specialist?

2. The voices, constant conscious thoughts - Does anyone think that the inner voice or the "constant conscious thoughts" exist because we are so wrapped up in all this? For me, I have both and have to wonder, are they really inherent to my brain, or am I forcing these thoughts from a desire for them to be real, to justify my behavior?

[susiej]

1. The Benjamin Scale - Does anyone think it is a very subjective scale, and not meant for us to determine a level for ourselves? I can identify with something at every level. But would have to classify a 3 or 4. Shouldn't this tool be applied by an objective gender specialist?

2. The voices, constant conscious thoughts - Does anyone think that the inner voice or the "constant conscious thoughts" exist because we are so wrapped up in all this? For me, I have both and have to wonder, are they really inherent to my brain, or am I forcing these thoughts from a desire for them to be real, to justify my behavior?

1. Hmm, I had heard about the Benjamin scale before, but hadn't read it or ranked myself on it until last night. Because its criteria seem fairly crisply defined, I was able to apply it to myself pretty easily, and (in my own opinion, of course) found only one category (4) that suited me.

Self-diagnosis has its benefits and disadvantages, clearly. Perhaps we don't see ourselves clearly. However, I know immediately what I feel (or, at least, think I feel), so I don't need a therapist to ask me $250 worth of questions to determine, for instance, that I "waver uncertainly" as to gender, or I "dress as often as possible, with insufficent relief from gender discomfort".

I suppose the standard could be better-applied by a professional -- but if so, there should be more detailed diagnosis criteria than provided in the twentyclub web page.

In short, I'm sorry I didn't look at the Benjamin standard earlier; it's kind of comforting to have a "box" to put myself in :).

2. Our use of this forum, and all the brainpower and time we seem to invest in obsessing about our gender identity is simply, another "feature of our gift". I don't think it will be very productive to separate our special gender identity and our thoughts about same -- they are part and parcel of the same thing.

Hugs, and a happy new year to all,
Susie

[FionaAlexis]

From your description of how you feel about CDing, that’s pretty much how I feel also. I just don’t have much opportunity these days to do it right.


I wanted to be female from a very young age - but it has peaked and troughed through my life so I can't say I've been in a continuous upswing. I've never felt guilty about dressing but I have been wary of the impact it has on others - at time anyway. I have stopped dressing for extended periods in my mid 20s and, again in my late 30s - the second period was more a case of the pointlessness and wastefulness of it following a psychological assessment rather than guilt and purging.

When I started dressing again - my goal was to achieve some middle path and sense of contentment. I have never been satisfied with private dressing and I've always needed to go out but having said that I do have preferred styles and looks.

I guess finding this middle path is proving quite difficult.

Fiona xx

[joanlynn28]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xx
I would have to say that I am a CD but I don't want to look like a guy wearing a dress. I want to be a woman true and true with all of the physical attributes. Like my father told me if you are going to do anything you might as well do it right.

[Darlena]

To me it was questionable at first, maybe. But as the years progressed I found myself continually outside of the bounds of expectancy and the predictable, "norms." I am learning to embrace the Femmne me. It first started as a fetish-fantasy. Then it progressed into a transgendered thing. And I do realize that the thing was there from the incept. But I am hopelessly tethered to the very "Ideal" That led me here in the first place. The very basic need to feminize. I've always emulated the "Goddesses" that predominated my conception of who I wanted to be most like. `Marilyn Monroe' is a good example. Then there is Elisabeth Taylor, Alicia Silverstone, Heida Klume, Molly Sims,etc. In other words..,I feel more at home in my girly skin than as a drab boy waiting in the wings. Love you all,

[FionaAlexis]

I would have to say that I am a CD but I don't want to look like a guy wearing a dress. I want to be a woman true and true with all of the physical attributes. Like my father told me if you are going to do anything you might as well do it right.

Thanks Joan.

Someone on another Forum said the difference between TV/CD and TS is about 'wanting' and 'needing'.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

But I am hopelessly tethered to the very "Ideal" That led me here in the first place. The very basic need to feminize.

I think I'm pretty much tied to a perfect transformation too - though not to any role model. But I doubt would be happy living full time unless I was 100%.

Fiona xx

[Darlena]

I have dressed as a girl since I was a little boy. My sister and I played dress up alot. Now days I am dressed up most of the time. I feel a kind of serenity when I'm Darlena. No need for the macho stuff anymore. I don't feel the need to be agressive and puffed up. I believe my feminine self to be the best quality in me. I am most happy this way. Wearing fem clothing is not a fetish for me. I don't do it for sexual thrills. I am wired this way. And after 50 years I can definately say I am Trans. I still want breasts and hormonal therapy. But unfortunately I can't afford the expense. I know I would rather be a woman than a man. I just don't want any cutting going on down there. Love & kisses,

[Clare]

1. The Benjamin Scale - Does anyone think it is a very subjective scale, and not meant for us to determine a level for ourselves? I can identify with something at every level. But would have to classify a 3 or 4. Shouldn't this tool be applied by an objective gender specialist?
Just read through the different types - I'm a 3 bordering on a 4 in my opinion.

Tammy, you are correct in that is should be applied by a qualified professional. My opinion is probably tainted by what I want the answer to be, rather than it being an objective assessment.

[tiffiany]

Ive known since I was nine that I was transgendered but I was fearful of how my parents would react to the news. They were already having a hard time trying to deal with the fact that I liked to wear womens clothes. My parents thought that this was not normal behavior for a son to do and so they tried to find a way to cure it. Their answer was for me to go see a therapist and so I went for a few weeks. The therapist made me feel so guilty that I stopped dressing and my parents thought that I was cured and so they stopped the therapy.

After the therapy I started questioning how I trully felt, asked myself questions as to why I was this way, etc. This caused me to want to dress more and more. But the dressing only made me feel more guilty and angry. Because I had noone to talk to about this I started bottling it up inside. Eventually it created an ulcer and I was sent to the doctors by my parents. When my parents and the doctor asked me what was wrong, I couldnt say anything. The doctor told them it was because of stress and I remember my parents wondering how a kid like me could be stressed.

Off and on I would slip up and my parents would find out that I was dressing again and so the guilt started all over again, causing my ulcer to act up. I tried to live mylife like my parents wanted me to. I went through life like a giant blob, while I precieved to be male to everybody around me I didnt feel that way inside. While I had friends I considered them more as people I knew. I was much of a loner, never into sports even though I participated in them. I played football in highschool because I thought it was what my parents wanted me to do. I had more girl friends then guys as well as I never was intersted in dating them. I had to have there approval of liking me before I could date them. To this day I still dont have a girlfriend.

Ive only told one person how Ive felt and she was understandable about it. Though I havent talked to her since we each graduated from highschool. Im at the stage where Im totally sure that Im transgendered and in the process of trying to get up the courage to tell my closest friends and immediate family. I just not sure where to go after here.

Thanks for listening.

[FionaAlexis]

Great post, Tiffiany.

I think a lot of girls will relate to your experiences. I wonder how many TGs are loners or regard themselves as loners? A pretty high percentage I suspect - I felt pretty isolated for much of my life.

Hope everything goes well for you.

Fiona xx

[tiffiany]

Great post, Tiffiany.

I think a lot of girls will relate to your experiences. I wonder how many TGs are loners or regard themselves as loners? A pretty high percentage I suspect - I felt pretty isolated for much of my life.

Hope everything goes well for you.

Fiona xx

Thanks. The real test will be in a week when my younger brother comes to visit. Im still contemplating if I should tell him or not. For some reason Ive always been closer to my younger brother than my feturnal twin. Growing up with my twin brother was hard because we were like night and day, total opposites.

[_Sheli_]

GREAT posts everyone!
I like most of you cant remember when I relized I was TG. <--- get the term right Sheli!! haha anyways as long as I can remeber I have always felt I had the wrong physical body! I wish I had a dollar for every prayer I have said wishing to have a truely female body!! My grandmother raised me as a girl in the 50's, which was unheard of. And like you Tiffany, I always related to girls rather than boys, but was never attracted to them! I can remember when I was found out and my mom and step dad forced me to go to a shrink!!How humilating!! I can remember just saying what they wanted to hear to get things over with! Again I hid things well untill high school when my step dad found my female clothes!! He had the brite idea that if he made me go to school dressed as a girl , that it would embarras me so bad that I would stop wanting to wear girl clothes!! Well needless to say I got all dressed up that day, but i surely didnt go to school! Again the disquize was in place! I tryed to be the BOY my parents wanted! Marriage, only to be found out again but this time i had the lable put on me that I was GAY! So to proove I wasnt , I got remairred and had 2 daughters!! MORE ESTROGEN in the house!!Anyway, after a 20 yr BAD marriage I started over again! This time I thought id be smart and tell up front my desires and intentions!! OH MY!! this one tells me that she wants to help make all my fantisy come to life! well after 3 yrs! same ole story!!
If I only knew then what I know now!!!

Hugs! Sheli

[FionaAlexis]

GREAT posts everyone!
I like most of you cant remember when I relized I was TG. <--- get the term right Sheli!! haha anyways as long as I can remeber I have always felt I had the wrong physical body! I wish I had a dollar for every prayer I have said wishing to have a truely female body!! My grandmother raised me as a girl in the 50's, which was unheard of. And like you Tiffany, I always related to girls rather than boys, but was never attracted to them! I can remember when I was found out and my mom and step dad forced me to go to a shrink!!How humilating!! I can remember just saying what they wanted to hear to get things over with! Again I hid things well untill high school when my step dad found my female clothes!! He had the brite idea that if he made me go to school dressed as a girl , that it would embarras me so bad that I would stop wanting to wear girl clothes!! Well needless to say I got all dressed up that day, but i surely didnt go to school! Again the disquize was in place! I tryed to be the BOY my parents wanted! Marriage, only to be found out again but this time i had the lable put on me that I was GAY! So to proove I wasnt , I got remairred and had 2 daughters!! MORE ESTROGEN in the house!!Anyway, after a 20 yr BAD marriage I started over again! This time I thought id be smart and tell up front my desires and intentions!! OH MY!! this one tells me that she wants to help make all my fantisy come to life! well after 3 yrs! same ole story!!
If I only knew then what I know now!!!

Hugs! Sheli

Thank you for posting, Sheli. A lot of parents would still react in a similar way.

Living up to others expectations of us causes a lot of bad decisions - and angst.

Fiona xx

[joanlynn28]

I don't know, as for me I have always wanted to become a woman since my early teens when my crossdressing started. I would dream of being able to grow breasts if I will it enough. I have always had the transexual interest as long as I can remember. I have suppressed my crossdressing for over six years but now that I am in my early forties the crossdress urge has only gotten stronger with each passing year. To me the one thing that keeps me form exploring SRS and hormone therapy any further is that I am in a committed relationship with my wife of 8 years. I thought that getting married and having a family would make this urge to want to change sexes go away but the only thing marraige has done is delayed the time I have left to change. I promised myself that I would not seek a change as long as my wife was in the picture. But currently she and I are seperated because of my crossdressing. I spent the month of November in a hospital trying to treat my crossdressing as a sexual addiction which crossdressing is not. All that I got out of the hospital experience was that I got in touch with my feminine emotions which only fuels my desire to change sexes. So my conclusion is that some of us CD/TG'rs don't make the complete change to womanhood is due to our family commitments or the fear of losing our loved ones. I am happier when I am myself which happens to be female. It is just that I am more comfortable as a female, I actually despise the male sex and all the macho BS that goes with it. Actually I am not male or female but Transsexual.:angel:

[FionaAlexis]

Hi Joan,

A lot seem to go through different life strategies in an effort to settle in to the male role which fits our body. Or suppress our true self. I guess we think if we work hard enough at it we can control it or make it go away.

I had always readily accepted who I was but I decided to re-invent myself after being rejected from the local GRS program. This came as a total shock to me as ten years previously I had been accepted in the UK but chickened out. At first I was pretty angry about it – then I thought maybe the psych’s right – so I set about putting all this tranny nonsense behind me and moving on.

But, of course, it resurfaces to bite you - usually when your life settles back to normality.

I have never really heard of anyone else going to hospital for a period for treatment. You must have felt in quite a desperate situation?

Not exactly sure what you mean by neither male nor female but transexual - you mean you are bi-gendered in the new language.

Thanks for posting your story. I think these sorts of posts show others that they are different and weird but others are struggling with the same issues.

Fiona xx

[Kimberley]

It's not a pretty story but I have always felt (or rather known) I was female but had the male beat into me. (Nuff said)

So, I would say I am a TS who is fighting to live; live as a TG and barely surviving as a CD.

Maybe in the next life I will get it right.

[Lisa Kaur]

I'm grew up as my mom's daughter. CD was a daily routine.
Had many girlfriends but many left me after they found the male in me.
Have 3 supportive sisters and a childhood gf. They prefer me on female mode coz I'm different. We spend weekends shopping , in the saloon n clubbing. Nothing more that I can ask for. They love my long hair, help
me grow my nails and are my fashion consultants. They make me do what I like doing.
From CD to TV .... I sometimes feel trapped in this male body. Ultimately I want to be like them. A female. Free to express myself , don't have to hang out with them just to be like them. I have a lot of fashion ideas that I alaways experiment on them.They call me their fashion guru. I even have a special bf when we go clubbing. My gf and I often double date during weekends. Both of us also work part time as shampoo girls for some income.
I have the freedom......
Sometimes my gf and I go on a date together. Some say, we make a great lesbian couple. Recently she cropped her hair to take up the male role. Thats when I knew how serious our relationship was !
My gender identity has been confusing me lately.
I am also active as male during the weekdays.... and sometimes go on date.
I feel the power and control over my date when we go out. My date is the soft spoken type...not demanding or the decision making type. I have feelings that make me like her ! With her, my role is the opposite compared to my gf n sisters.
Lately with my CD/TV/TS background, I been giving a lot of fashion tips to my date. My date likes me because I have a feminine side and can talk to her on any girly topic. I tried to hide it , but its difficult. I gave her a few make overs and shes head over heels over me ! She wants to be my GF but wants me to cut my knee lenght hair !
I want to be her BF but prefer to forget her , to keep my hair as my female feelings are stronger...... or maybe I am CD/TV ........ or continue my 'lesbian' relationship.
Before meeting my meeting date , I have been thinking about becoming a WOMAN. but now I am very confused about my feelings.............

lisa

[alisoncdnj]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xx

I think I simply labeled myself incorrectly, I have always felt I was a transsexual. The more I dress the more I feel this is the right direction for me. I am planning on transitioning but I am going to move slowly.

[Denise01]

originally i felt I was Cd as I had the desire to dress from a very young age, however do to the era of my younger days this was not an option, living near a village with a lot of narrow minded people.

The older i got,, the more the desire to dress came out and 10 years ago i took the plunge and bought my first femme Skirt, which i fortunately am still able to wear to-day.
For what it is worth and probably not much, i did take some of the gender tests. One test showed that i was 90% female, and cogati test indicated I was transexual.

I would love to be able to transition, however due to some health problems at the present time it is not an option, but I still now feel I should classify myself as TS

Denise

[carolanne_love]

Hi Denise

Just between us gals, how old are you?

I'm 57 and I KNOW what I am. I am a woman!! the only thing though, I have a man's body.

I suspect that due to my age and health (Type 2 diabetic) I cannot transform into a full female BUT I know I can do certain things to enhance my female attributes (breasts, no body or face hair) that, in turn will help me feel feminine while acting male throughout the work day. I already have 40B breasts and they hide nicely under a loose shirt, and just knowing I have them give me a certain amount of peace.


I too was (I thought) a crossdresser in my younger days (from about 7 ~ 8) right through to the point I realized and accepted what I was.

I don't feel there is a need to "Classify" yourself. You are what you are. If you feel woman in a man's body, then you are a woman.

My opinion, not necessariliy the opinion of this station.

Love Carolanne

[Jennaie]

I am a cd, more so a tv. I have watched these terms take on different meanings over the years. A tv being a somewhat "more serious" cd who feels an extreme desire to be identified in public as female and takes great steps to achieve that outcome. I don't know. I do know that I have a strong need to be validated as female and work hard towards realizing that end.

It seems to me that many cd's dress for sexual pleasure and get turned on by looking at themselves in the mirror.

This is not the case for me. When I dress, I dress fully, and my dressing does not include llingerie. I usually dress in the same clothing you would see the average female wearing at the mall or convience store. As a matter of fact, tonight I saw a woman wearing almost exactly what I was wearing not 30 minutes earlier. "She was so cute in my outfiit". I wanted tell her what good taste she had.:happy:

When I dress, "Which is almost every evening", I feel totally fem and yes, I would and could easily be with a male, "he would have to be very special to me". Which leads me to the next thought.

I am sexually attracted to men, but only after developing a very close relationship. It is an emotional attraction much more than physical. With women however, I am the same as most males, visual attraction is all I need to want a female. I have only developed deep feelings for very few men in my life, and never pursued any of those attractions.

What does all this mean? Am I ts or just a cd/tv? I will tell you first that I am old enough to never say never. If I could be an attractive woman, I would prefer it. I know that is not possible and a sex change would absolutely destroy my life. There would be no Mr. Right who was going to come along and be my life partner. There would be no company that would hire me at a wage that could afford a retirement. I would be poor, alone, and without a future.

As I stated in another post, If cosmetic surgury could accomplish for me what it did for Cindy Jackson, I would become female in a heartbeat. But that is not reality. Reality is that I was born male, and although I wish I had been born female, it just did not happen that way.

So I will close with this: I wish that I had been born female, I believe that I would have been more comfortable as a female, but that is not how things happened. Am I ts? I think more than likely, yes. I wanted to be a girl when I was little, but I wasn't. I learned to be a boy, a boy who hated team sports, but loved sports that were considered solo sports. I have been slipping into female clothing since I was a very little boy, and always will. As I am sure that I will always wish that I had been born female.

[ToyGirl]

Hi Fiona , My story starts much like everyone elses. I knew since my earliest memorys that i was meant to be female , i remember my first year at school , how i so much wanted one of those little summer dresses and to play with the girls , id look over to the boys playing football and not wanting to join them, i sat alone , a feeling id get to use alot in my years ahead. Catholic school , we were taught to pray, So i prayed everynight that i would wake up a girl.

>>>fast forward>>> im 20 now , was thin had long hair , was often being 'mistaken' for a girl. My GF's friend had her left her bag of spare clothes at my house and i was home alone. I hadnt cross dressed since i was younger. I just wanted to see what i looked like.

>>> fast forward>>> im 25 i live with my GF in Melbourne , shes not home and im here alone with all her clothes , even the ones i bought for her . I really seen myself for the first time , it was scary to see the woman i would have become in the mirror.

>>>>fast forward>>>im 27 single and full of hate, im in a helicopter about to be dropped into a wildfire , i rub my freshly shaved head with one hand and tighten my grip on my axe GRRR!

>>>fast forward>>> im 28 ive given up on life, im ready to die ,ive tried so hard to live as a man and do the right thing, i cant stand to live this way anylonger.

>>> fast forward>>> im 31 , i wake up and open my blurry eyes as the sun shines in my bedroom window , stretch alittle and look down at my body and smile. Prayers do come true , they just take awhile.


I did cross dress a fair bit in my early 20's , allways alone in private in my GF's clothes , i allways felt bad about it. The mirror was like a portal to a different dimension where i could visit the real me. Wasnt until 28 that i really educated myself on what was possible. Armed with that information and death snapping at my heels (and i use the term heels literally) it was an easy choice to transition. I havnt had SRS yet , but im the happiest ive ever been in my life.

[PTPJen]

I'm a CD, Been one for many years, am 50ish now, but want to take low hormones to help me in this area, don't want to be TS but consider myself Transgender and want the male look on occations, and female fem male look everyday. It's been a progressive step. CD to TG

[Kimberley]

Right now I am too confused to try and classify myself. We are polymorphic and so have elements of all ends of the spectrum in our personalities

Just my opinion.

Kimberley

[Lisa Maren]

I have thought of myself as a CDer for years, ever since I first admitted to myself that I was a crossdresser in 1995. Now, however, I think I may be a TS. I tested once as a 3 and later as a 4 on the COGIATI scale, but I don't look at that as necessarily anything concrete.

I just don't get so much about being male. I also hate the macho crap and I hate feeling like I'm supposed to be fearless. I don't want to be fearless, I want to be in touch with my feelings! Then there's the way men put a score on everything. Even on Yahoo! Answers you accumulate a score for answering questions, for pete sake. I never give a crap about score. I just care about feeling that I'm doing a good job, hopefully giving someone an answer that they need and that others approve of me (that last one may be debatable, but it feels like a feminine quality to me). There's so much that's different about me than males. When I'm around a group of men I feel... what feels to me like their masculine energy (I can't think of a better way to put it) and it feels rather alien (and not infrequently intimidating) to me; it always has. I'm quite comfortable around a group of women, though. Out of the 4 friends I keep in contact with, 3 are women and the women are the ones I take my problems to, not the guy.

I'm trying to unravel how early I had an idea I had a girly in me. When I was in pre-kindergarten (age 4ish), I hung out with a couple of girls. Boys aren't generally even interested in girls at that age. During my childhood, I know that, at least at times, I was seen/caught emulating a feminine mannerism (crossing my legs at the knees, tossing back my male hair as though it were female, trying to chew on a nonexistant ponytail while watching the girl next door do that when I was like 7, etc).

My only sister is 6 years younger than me, which means I never had girls clothes to wear (so I'd pilfer mom's pantyhose all the time) but there was one pair of white tights that must have been given to her by one of our family's friends that fit me (I know because I tried them on as soon as I found them).
At any dinner party at our house or elsewhere there were always pretty girls dressed in pretty dresses and pretty tights and I always wished I could be dressed like that, too.

I knew I felt no identification whatsoever with the boys' interest in sports, the way they'd talk about the games afterwards, sometimes arguing about it, always talking about the most exciting moves in the game. I never got that. Ever. I never gave a crap about the game afterwards. I used to love playing games like tennis, ping pong, and others without scoring, just for fun. Men rarely or never do that. They're all about clear rules, clear winners and clear losers.

Here's a kind of interesting one (which, again, is debatable): When I was in grade school (all boys school) I always felt kind of intimidated but when visiting one of the all girls schools in the city, I usually felt quite comfortable there.

Do I like to cook? I love to! Do I like to clean, well, not really, but here's a newsflash: neither do GGs! They like having a clean house, to be sure, and so do I, but nobody likes to clean. It's mentally unstimulating and tiring. (I don't believe in the whole "that's women's stuff" thing either jftr).

Anyway, what got me suspecting that I might be TS is a few things. The earliest thing was that it stopped being sexual entirely, not instantly but it did -- and also because I wanted it to. I wanted to wear my girly clothes and enjoy feeling like a girl without my "dumb stick" getting in the way. This was at least 6 years ago. Over the last 6 years, I began to understand how much I identify with women (and how little with men). You could literally take virtually any of the scenarios you’ve seen between a woman and a man when the woman involved said something like “You’re being such a total man!” and be assured that it’s the woman I identify with. Either that I or understand them both, but much more so the woman. It was also the fact that I realized that when I talk to someone about my problems, I hate it when they give me an answer unless I ask for one. 98% of the time I just want to be listened to, understood, heard, cared about, supported. In contrast, men bring their problems to each other to get answers and solutions. (This one might be debatable, but it feels feminine to me). There was also the fact, 10 or 12 years back, that I finally stopped feeling self-conscious about my strong emotions and decided I'd rather feel than, what, be a tree stump?? During my college years, I remember that there was a gender bender ball on campus ("Come as your favorite gender!") and I thought about attending as a girl -- not seriously, but not playfully either. I knew it would be fun to be a girl all night, all prettied up and wearing a nice dress and pantyhose. I also knew I was too scared to try something like that. I didn't really know anyone I felt like telling about that part of me or who could help, anyway. Interestingly enough, this was before I admitted to myself I was crossdressing. Mostly, the reason I suspect that I’m TS is that according to what my perceptions are of masculinity and femininity it’s the femininity that describes the majority of me.

Anyway, I’m trying to go to a group run by a post-op TS PhD to help me figure all of this out. Wish me luck!

Hugs,
Lisa

[FionaAlexis]

What does all this mean? Am I ts or just a cd/tv? I will tell you first that I am old enough to never say never. If I could be an attractive woman, I would prefer it. I know that is not possible and a sex change would absolutely destroy my life. There would be no Mr. Right who was going to come along and be my life partner. There would be no company that would hire me at a wage that could afford a retirement. I would be poor, alone, and without a future.



Hi Jennaie,

I can relate to much of what you say, though I never had any great desire for a Mr Right as a life partner and I've always filed my 'wife' thoughts under F for fantasy. But I guess an overwhelming need in my life is stability and security - even beyond gender so while I have explored the transition road I have always done a U turn after a short time. My fear of being destitute seems far greater than my desire to be female.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Wasnt until 28 that i really educated myself on what was possible. Armed with that information and death snapping at my heels (and i use the term heels literally) it was an easy choice to transition. I havnt had SRS yet , but im the happiest ive ever been in my life.

Hi Nicole,

Thank you for the outline of your journey. I'm glad things are working out for you now - and I trust death will keep its distance so you can continue to enjoy.

'Information' and accurate information at that - is so important. I think this is the greatest benefit of the internet that information is now so accessible.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Anyway, I’m trying to go to a group run by a post-op TS PhD to help me figure all of this out. Wish me luck!

Hugs,
Lisa

Thank you Lisa! I do wish you luck - but I rather think you have already figured it out. Perhaps you just need the stamp of approval - or reassurance?

I get along well with men at a work level - but I have never been comfortable with men [as a male] at a social level though I have enjoyed it in female mode. I think the expectations and the chit-chat are quite different. Men rarely discuss personal issues or relationships whereas women seem to hone in on those issues automatically and I rather enjoy that too.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I'm a CD, Been one for many years, am 50ish now, but want to take low hormones to help me in this area, don't want to be TS but consider myself Transgender and want the male look on occations, and female fem male look everyday. It's been a progressive step. CD to TG

Rachael Wallbank, a local TS was quoted in our local newspaper on the difference between TS and TG -

'Those who experience transsexualism also experience a compelling need to alter their body in order to bring it into better harmony with their innate sexual identity................

Transgenderism, transvestism and crossdressing refer to taking on the appearance of the other sex for varying periods of time, without the need for physical rehabilitation through genital surgery'.

Perhaps that fits with what you are saying?

Fiona xx

[Lisa OZ]

I thought I would put my penny worth in to this great thread and widen it slightly with another angle

Isn't it grand being different! I have been dressing on and off since I was 10 like a lot of you on this forum. I am quite frankly bored with most peoples conversation on TV shows, house, cars or whatever facile subject they are banging on about. This is different, yes there is angst, yes there are difficulties, however just like any other animal in the world there are infinite variables in our make up, we all happen to share the gene that likes the feminine aspects of human nature, surely that is a celebration of who we are and we should celebrate that and not get bogged down in the negative aspects. I do empathise with how people feel and as a personal example, l have lost my family and moved to another country for my 'Hobby". I know angst I can assure you.

Like a lot of correspondents here I am bored with talking about sport not the playing of it but the way it has been hijacked like most popular pastimes and made into this ersatz marketing TV blob. The ideals of pure sport as in the original Olympics are a testament to human achievement and progress, mind you I prefer an evening in satin and sheer black stockings. Maybe we could press for a new Olympic sport.

What matters in the end is your values and principles and how you treat each other. If you are a dickhead you will be treated like one. Random acts of kindness is the way to go. I paid for an old ladies coffee the other day who was sitting there all lonely at the next table. She struck up a conversation with me and I found her interesting and articulate and enjoyed the half hour we had together. On a whim I paid for her coffee when I went to pay for mine. I did not tell her I was paying, I just did it without her knowing. I am not telling you this for praise. It's what I do from time to time to make up for the crap that goes on in this world.


Viva la difference I say, now where are those new shoes

Love, life and a new pair of stockings

Lisa xx

[TracyDeluxe]

But, my take on the whole thing is that CD'ers don't become transexuals. One either is or isn't, and it's only a process of discovering who or what you really are, not a changing thing.

And, in my experience at least, it's a very twisty road, and wrong turns will be made, but then you back up, and make a different turn. If you live long enough, you may find out who you really are, but then again, by that time, you may not be the same person you were when you started your journey.

Life's a bitch, ain't it? ;)

[Sarahgurl371]

Fiona I see this thread is still attracting alot of interest. Guess alot of us have questions. Myself, now more than ever.


I have been extremely confused lately. Am I just a guy who has this fetish, and its gotten out of hand? Is my wife right? Is this way more than I have admitted to myself? Is this FOR REAL? I am finding this thing to be all consuming, everyday, first thing in the morning till laying awake in bed at night. Am I just pushing this issue, is it just stuck in my mind? Have I a made a mountain out of a mole hill? Or have I only realized the tip of the ice berg?

I am scared to death most days, especially in social situations. Afraid the subject will arise and everyone will see me for real. Maybe there is some truth in that. Maybe I am just wanting to find that truth.

My story is similar. Started with Mom's clothes at or around 6 or 7. One of my first memories of childhood is getting caught. It certainlly wasn't sexual back then. But it did become sexual at puberty. I continued on for many years (10 - 15) just dressing when I could and satisfying the "urge". Always hating myself afterwards. But in the last few years I just thought about it, and started to question the why. Here I am now. Now I am 34, I don't know the most basic thing about me - Who I am.

Like many others, I never fit in with the guys. Never liked the normal guy things. Sports - hate em. Hunting and fishing - can't stand killing stuff. Etc. Etc. Got told many times by my Dad - Are you a man or a mouse?

Never feel comfortable in any social setting. I am not sure how it feels to be a man, but I am pretty sure I don't feel that way. Never felt big enough, strong enough, strong willed enough. Always the one who backs off my wants to please others. I realize that lots of people have self esteem issues, but that coupled with the "feminine" feelings inside make me really question who / what I am. I can be extremely emotional when I allow myself. But very afraid to let my emotions show around people.

Always seemed to be the guy the girls want to be "friends" with. Always kinda related to them better, just more common interests I guess. Always had to "suck it up" when it comes to being emotional. It just wasn't manly enough I guess. My Dad wanted me to be a strong man. Lately I am kinda thinking that may have something to do with the self loathing. I always wanted his approval of me, Not really sure he would if he truly knows how I feel.

Want so badly to be in love, to be loved for me and cherished. Afraid to let anyone in. Afraid people will run away if they knew. It seems the only time I am truly comfortable is when I am alone. But the last thing I want is to be alone. What a conflict.

Sexuality , yep its all messed up. Not what one might consider "normal" anyway. Totally understand about the above comments about the "dumb stick". Not happy with a masculine appearing body. Don't necessarily hate my genitals either.

It seems that defining characteristic I find, I also don't quite identify with it 100%. Wished I was a girl in my teens so badly. Guess I still do. But is wishing / feeling like different from saying " I am"? Or haven't I gotten there yet? Am I pushing the issue? And the whole ball goes round and round again.

I KNOW that the life I would lead as a TS would be extremely tough, possibly painful, could very well end up all alone. I know those who transition don't have it easy. Yet I still ponder it. Wish there was a pill.

Made up my mind, gonna go see a therapist who specializes in this stuff. Been recommended to do so by others. Get home, gonna make the phone call. Get scared. I will have to tell somebody about me. Give my name. Ruin the life I have spent the last 15 years building. Maybe I can last another day? Maybe tomarrow it will all make sense? I will finally have a little piece and inner quiet. Then I get accused by my wife that I am choosing this. Why would a normal sane person do so? Maybe I am not sane?

Come on here, read these post and think - can there be that many of "us" who have these questions? Maybe "they" are right. We are all just choosing this. Now I am thinking I have said too much. That I should just delete it all.

[Genevieve G]

I fought with, and thought about a lot of these questions, too. I always knew I was different & didn't really fit into a group, whether it was a group of girls or boys. So the isolation started for me at an early age, at which time I was crossdressing and it felt "right." It just wasn't about aesthetics for me, though. Mentally, it was right.

My dad was kind of a hands-off person, he never really voiced his expectations. Even if he'd been more overbearing things wouldn't have been different. I probably would have rebelled more than I did when I was a teen. For years, I've been suicidal, treated for depression by numerous psychologists--the whole shooting match. My current therapist defines it as transgendered "not other specified." Putting a label on it helps, but it doesn't change the shell that I'm living in right now. There's a lot of baggage that goes with this and I won't ramble. It just comes down to one thing and that's making yourself happy. A lot of times we forego our own happiness because we subconsciously realize that the ones we know or love don't understand TS/TG/CD. We try to make them happy or pacify them at our own expense. In my case, I drank pretty heavily for years. We all have our own demons, but I'd rather be a happy woman than a dead man. That's my perception. Now it's just a matter of money.

Tina

[FionaAlexis]

I thought I would put my penny worth in to this great thread and widen it slightly with another angle

Isn't it grand being different! I have been dressing on and off since I was 10 like a lot of you on this forum. I am quite frankly bored with most peoples conversation on TV shows, house, cars or whatever facile subject they are banging on about. This is different, yes there is angst, yes there are difficulties, however just like any other animal in the world there are infinite variables in our make up, we all happen to share the gene that likes the feminine aspects of human nature, surely that is a celebration of who we are and we should celebrate that and not get bogged down in the negative aspects. I do empathise with how people feel and as a personal example, l have lost my family and moved to another country for my 'Hobby". I know angst I can assure you.

Viva la difference I say, now where are those new shoes

Love, life and a new pair of stockings

Lisa xx


Hi Lisa,

Some of us reach that 'bugger the lot of you - I'm going to be what I want' phase and then pride in being enigmatic and a tranny. In my case was followed by 'where's this really heading?' - and a need to slide back into normality. And so I get into a revolving door.

Anyway hope things continue well for you.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I KNOW that the life I would lead as a TS would be extremely tough, possibly painful, could very well end up all alone. I know those who transition don't have it easy. Yet I still ponder it. Wish there was a pill.

Made up my mind, gonna go see a therapist who specializes in this stuff. Been recommended to do so by others. Get home, gonna make the phone call. Get scared. I will have to tell somebody about me. Give my name. Ruin the life I have spent the last 15 years building. Maybe I can last another day? Maybe tomarrow it will all make sense? I will finally have a little piece and inner quiet. Then I get accused by my wife that I am choosing this. Why would a normal sane person do so? Maybe I am not sane?

Come on here, read these post and think - can there be that many of "us" who have these questions? Maybe "they" are right. We are all just choosing this. Now I am thinking I have said too much. That I should just delete it all.

Hi Tammy,

I'm so glad you didn't delete your post - you have a real knack of expressing yourself and describing how you feel that really touches a nerve and highlights the real life complexities and dilemmas you face - and a lot of us deal with. Thank you for a really great post.

I also feel quite out of place in social gatherings which I think partly comes from lack of self confidence - and awkwardness in adopting the male role. I've often felt I'm acting out a part rather behaving normally. When I let my guard down I think I'm quite asexual now. In my younger days I decided not to drink alcohol and I've never been drunk - I was scared that if I got drunk this female personna would surface and the game would be up.

It is hard to live up to others expectations and sometimes it seems easier to be totally isolated. However, having been single and alone for long periods in my life, I can say that life and the decisions were no easier to make.

I didn't have great experiences with psychs in the past but I think things have changed somewhat. I'm sure it would be good for you to have someone [non-judgemental] to open up to. Good luck!

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I fought with, and thought about a lot of these questions, too. I always knew I was different & didn't really fit into a group, whether it was a group of girls or boys. So the isolation started for me at an early age, at which time I was crossdressing and it felt "right." It just wasn't about aesthetics for me, though. Mentally, it was right.

My dad was kind of a hands-off person, he never really voiced his expectations. Even if he'd been more overbearing things wouldn't have been different. I probably would have rebelled more than I did when I was a teen. For years, I've been suicidal, treated for depression by numerous psychologists--the whole shooting match. My current therapist defines it as transgendered "not other specified." Putting a label on it helps, but it doesn't change the shell that I'm living in right now. There's a lot of baggage that goes with this and I won't ramble. It just comes down to one thing and that's making yourself happy. A lot of times we forego our own happiness because we subconsciously realize that the ones we know or love don't understand TS/TG/CD. We try to make them happy or pacify them at our own expense. In my case, I drank pretty heavily for years. We all have our own demons, but I'd rather be a happy woman than a dead man. That's my perception. Now it's just a matter of money.

Tina


Thanks Tina.

So have you come to a final conclusion that transitioning is the way to go? Do you feel if you were female, you would be able to relate better and break the isolation? Or is your 'happiness' even a deeper feeling.

Fiona xx

[Genevieve G]

There would be nothing to consider if it wasn't for family. I've always beaten myself up over disappointing people. I think transitioning, although very tough, would be a welcome change. After denying myself of who I am for all these years, wanting to punch the mirror every time I looked in it, I really do feel that it would benefit me to transition. I can't help but be concerned for my family, though. It's such a tough thing. I agonize over this every single hour of every day & it never seems to get any easier.

Tina

[joanlynn28]

I don't know as for me I have had a long desire to be TS. The CD thing is more exploratory, seeing how I would look as a female. I come to conclusion that I would end up looking just like my sister. Not that that would be a bad thing. What I need to do is to seek counseling with someone who is experienced in these matters. I have a number from a therapist of mine, I just am too scared to make that first call. For the time being I as somewhat happy as a CD. But I really don't want to be a guy dressed up as a girl. What I really desire is to be a girl dressed as a girl. Like my father always told me, if you are going to go do something, do it right. "If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right."

[rachel1985]

Hi Girls!

I have to agree with a few people on here, i personally started wearing womens clothing by about 10, and never thought of it as anything other than natural. I used to wear normal underwear as any other girl in my class, i would find myself being attracted more to boys in my class and taking part in more female orientated classes, such as Home Economics, etc.
As i grew into a teenager, i started to become interested in girls, however the lust for a man was stronger still, and would still talk to my girl-friends more than my boy-friends.
Now towards the point of 16 i stopped wearing underwear, as i went into a steady hetro relationship, which towards the end caused me a lot of pain, and also had me in hospital due taking an overdose.
So from 18 when the hetro relationship died, i started to get the male urges again, so i decided to come out of the closet to my closest friends, and my family. My family automatically accepted this, and unfortunately i lost a few good friends.
So three years on, i'm a bi male, having been through my promiscous stage of life, having been with both men and women in the attempt to suppress one or the other, and i have now come to this conclusion, with the help of one of my old Secondry School Teachers. "To be gay, is to have too many hormones of the other sex" Now does this mean that i have more female genes in me, than male, so i seek attention sexually from men, however they find me attractive due to how i look?

I'm now 21, i have gone back to how i was at 10, still wearing the underwear, feeling natural, and not finding it as some kind of fetish, and being happy with myself, however also depressed and unsure of how people around me will feel.
I'm currently in a year old hetro relationship, with my partner having children from a failed marrage, with the future looking bright, however should i be rid of my clothes to be a good male role model to the children, knowing in my heart who i am and what i am, or do i kill whats currently been the best relationship of my life, and go down having the MTF op, and possibly ending up with someone who doesn't love or care about me?

England doesn't seem to have the open-mindedness of other countries, such as Taiwan, accepting He-she's, transvestites, and transexuals, and i would hate to feel outcasted.

However, in submission to myself, i shall continue being the CD / TS that i am, and give in to the fact that i am a bisexual male who enjoys the feeling of silk, and then also subduing the fact that i could be and want to be a woman.

This is around the time i begin to believe in reincarnation strongly enough, and now pray to god that i come back as a petite lady, with wisdom (unlike many girls of the UK today), and grow equally successful as i have in my current male role.

-----------------------------------------

That sounds deep, i must admit, however this is how i feel, and this was what was asked. From my heart and soul, i know truely who i am, i'm Rachel, and proud.

Keep smiling girls!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Lisa OZ]

Hi Lisa,

Some of us reach that 'bugger the lot of you - I'm going to be what I want' phase and then pride in being enigmatic and a tranny. In my case was followed by 'where's this really heading?' - and a need to slide back into normality. And so I get into a revolving door.

Anyway hope things continue well for you.

Fiona xx


Yes Fiona exactly my point relish being enigmatic, live for today, the way this world is going we will not be having that many of them. It is encumbent on all of us to live the way we want and not be burdened by guilt/regrets/what if's/maybe's. Intolerant Religon, bigotry & dysfuncitional families have no place in our lives if they do not enrich them and visa versa.

The question I pose for you and all over girls in the middle of the revolving door scenario is: Can you control these feelings or is it the way I am? If the answer is in the affirmitive go straight through the door that says: 'Freedom'
If not you will be forever racked by doubts that will attack your self esteem and erode your confidence in what you are.....To positive for most people? Try the inner voice when you are old and grey and you are sitting there thinking......if only.........

My love to you all from this sunburnt country with a big hole in it as we export all our minerals to the Chinese

Lisa

[Lisa Maren]

Fiona -- I think you're right. A lot of times I feel that if I had had their approval I would be much further along than I am now. Whenever I read a story of someone who was lucky with understanding parents I always feel so jealous. I am really scared of telling my parents about Lisa. They're going to have a tough time of it. My mom's a know-it-all personality and if she gets it into her head she's right on something you'll never convince her otherwise. Dad was in the military way back when. It's going to be difficult.

Tina -- I totally hear ya! I worry about how it will hurt my family, too, when I tell them about Lisa. They're the number one reason I haven't gone further than I have. Friends are somewhat easier. Two of my good friends know I'm a crossdresser anyway and they're fine with that. That leaves two more to tell, plus I'll possibly need to tell them all of the transexual part.

I wish us all luck!

Hugs,
Lisa

[Clare]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xxNope, i'm basically a crossdressing transgenderist. By that I mean, I could wear feamle clothes fulltime for the rest of my life, but I doubt that i'd ever fully transition by choice.

However, if something adverse happened to my male 'plumbing' (Cancer for example), I could go on to live as a female with hormones etc... In other words, I could transition to live as girl if it came to that. You could say I was 50/50 about the topic!

[Sally24]

I've questioned myself a few times about this very thing. The most recent time was after reading "She's Not There" by Jennifer Boylan. There were many parrallels between our two lives and thoughts. She was a woman mentally since birth. I on the other hand am more of the center road with alot of female in my brain but being very comfortable with my male role also. I try to work on my "techniques" as if I were a TS woman. This includes considering electrolysis to eliminate my beard. But I consider myself a serious crossdresser and trasgendered, but not a transexual.

[SexxxyBrianna]

I am a cd, more so a tv. I have watched these terms take on different meanings over the years. A tv being a somewhat "more serious" cd who feels an extreme desire to be identified in public as female and takes great steps to achieve that outcome.

There are many different usages and meanings of the term transvestism. Most experts agree that the correct usages is limited to:

When people dress in clothes normally worn by the opposite gender in order to identify with that gender in some manner.

When people dress in clothes normally worn by the opposite gender for purposes involving sexual arousal (transvestic fetishism).
A combination of the two definitions mentioned above.

Transvestitism is not an indicator of sexuality.

[jillinla]

" a rose by any other name ..."

[helenscotlanduk]

I have always been very happy as a fem in a male body it gave me the best of both worlds, I have my children a wife and sex as a male or female ,I became a cross dresser at five years old and have never regretted it for one second, I could become boy or girl at my choice as I got older my dream was to be a she male but due to meeting and falling deeply in love with my wife it dropped to the wayside until years later she confessed to being extremely bi this allowed me to explain my needs at witch I found pleased her as she could have both with me male or female and it has been great until now, but now my life in the middle lane is coming to a end due to prostate cancer and lumps on the testicle and surgery seems the only option, this will leave me with no choice but to become female, so I feel cheated as I was happy being both, my wife is content at the thought and has been of great support and all she wants is me by her side in the years to come ,I feel lucky to have such a fantastic partner and im making the most of what time I have left as a male if it has to go then it will be well used before it gets the chop, and I adopt a female role permanently and still have a life ahead of me and no doubt will come to enjoy my new life with my partner as much as my old one

[Miriannah]

Dear god, I blame the internet. At first, (as in, before I was exposed to the internet) I just considered myself to be your basic freak-of-nature kid who liked womens' clothing. However, with the internet, and my chance to be a woman in various online games...well let's just say from then, things started falling into place. ;)

[FionaAlexis]

..........but now my life in the middle lane is coming to a end due to prostate cancer and lumps on the testicle and surgery seems the only option, this will leave me with no choice but to become female..........

Hi Helen,

Thank you for your post. I found it very interesting and the thought has crossed my mind re: prostate cancer that it would be ultimate irony to contract a male disease the treatment of which is feminisation.

I assume when you you say you were left with no choice - you mean it is the most palatable option.

Anyway best wishes for your treatment and you future life as a female.


Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Fiona:rose2:

At this point, I think I am more inclined to believe that I am an hetereosexual TV, which includes sexual arousal with female clothing. However, I have never had the chance to be femme more that a couple of hours, in a very limited space, my bed room.

I have read ,somewhere, that if you allow yourself to experience more the femme experience you become more confortable and then the sexual arousal (transvestic fetishim) starts to diminish and the person experience a sense of wellbeing and relaxation. I don't know about that, but I am comitted to give a chance to Sophie to breath and to grow.

What happens is that I do have a big sense of remorse after the sexual part is being release. It is not as pleasurable and fullfilling as when a make love to a GG, never. However, this is where all becomes very confusing. I am not attracted to men what so ever, not at all. But, when in femme I do fantasy about being with a man, and enjoy very much that fantasy; that is a very persistant fantasy. However, once the excitment is all gone, I think those are nonsense and don't feel anything towards men, Do I made myself understandable?

On the other hand, I know I have a feminine side. For example, I do see a romatic relation between man and woman more in the GG's point of view,. Even sex, I see it and perceive it more like the way women do. I think I also flirt to women the way they do, very discrete.

Also, I always have used woman's facial cream and regular body lotion to keep myself soft (nowdays it seems that men have their own lotion culture, but not when I startered). And finally, I do want to obtain a more femenine shape but not a total one. I did took hormones on my own during my 20's, but I got scare and stopped after a week. But, you see I did have the impulse to do it on my own and still I wish I could do it.

Now, Do all the above mentioned makes me a TS?, I don't really know. You see, I have never suffer what is typical in most TS cases "To feel you were born in the wrong body". I am ok as a man and I have live pretty ok with my birth gender. The question would I have been happier as a woman? No, I don't ,or so I think.

I think that besides giving a new opportunity for my feminity to express itself, I should also see a therapist, run some test and get involved in counseling. Then, I am pretty sure I would be less confuse with less guilt and remorse.By the way, Do you know where in the internet I can find a list of specialists in TG?


Sophie:GE:


Hi Sophie,

You raise a number of issues in your post. I'm not an expert but there is nothing in what you say that would suggest you are TS. However, you allude to the theory that for many CD/TVs it was very much a dynamic and developmental process. It seems to be that the more we self immerse in cd-ing and female activities - then the more the female personna grows.

So far as sexual arrousal is concerned, a large percentage of the respondents to my 'rip off' of the 'Is It Sexual?' poll on Roses Forum said that the sexual arrousal component of dressing diminished as their female personna developed.

Happiness? There is no doubt that at the TS end of the spectrum there are those who are grossly disoriented and unhappy in their birth gender and simply can't function in that state. However most of us can function in our birth gender to one degree or another. We are also on a rollercoaster and if the only 'highs' [in every sense of the word] are clearly indentified with time spent in female mode then I think you are on the road to TS. But then for those of us, who are part timers, there is an element of 'vacation euphoria' - where we go to wonderful place and love it so much we want to live there permanently.

Gender specialists? - I think any psychs who are members of HBGIDA [Harry Benjamin Gender Indentity Dysphoria Association or something like that?] will have experience in treating GID.

Thanks for your post Sophie.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Dear god, I blame the internet. At first, (as in, before I was exposed to the internet) I just considered myself to be your basic freak-of-nature kid who liked womens' clothing. However, with the internet, and my chance to be a woman in various online games...well let's just say from then, things started falling into place. ;)

Hi Miriannah,

There is no doubt the internet has brought us together as never before - and has given us the opportunity to have a female ID irrespective of how we are dressed during communication.

Fiona xx

[Bonnie Jean]

CD or TS I've been dodging that question for years. Anytime it surfaced I would bury it as deep as I could. I've always been extremely self consious in my male role and never fitted in. In the last two years I've been dressing more and more in Fem mode. About the only time I dress as male anymore is when I'm at work. No I don't always wear dresses I dress as most GGs do, at home everyday fem outfits (shorts, jeans, sweatpants blouse) . When I go out its either Fem jeans and blouse or skirt outfit. My daughter in law took me out the first time, and I was scared to death. After that i started going ut quite a bit. I get read fairly often because I dont really pass and I know it, but it doesnt bother me, At my 10 am counselling appointment this morning the counseler asked several pointed questions. among them when are you most comfortable, as male or female, easy answer there. Female how long have you been crossdressing? easy since around 6, which role is easier to interact with people, again easy FEM. and then she asked whether I was really a CD or TS. I dodged that one for then, but I haven't been able to get it off my mind its after 3 in the morning and I'm still struggling, with all the burried memories and feelings. I've dodged the question for so long that I'm truly afraid of admitting it, and what the consequences will be when I do. I know the answer but knowing and acknowledging it are two different and seperate things.

[Star]

I 'm a closeted transvestite. I say that because I know this is about more than just cding for me since I experienced the desire to become a girl long befor I ever crossdressed. Tucking has always been the most important part to me because it gives me a feeling of peace to know they are gone. Up until now I have been able to put this away and live like for normal male for periods of time, but it is always there waiting for the opportunity. Now that I am older I know if I were left to be me all the time I would take this much further, definately to at least HRT.
Marina 12's comments also make sense to me. I am not attracted to men so maybe it is all about the "ultimate blast." Except the yearning started so long ago.

[FionaAlexis]

At my 10 am counselling appointment this morning the counseler asked several pointed questions. among them when are you most comfortable, as male or female, easy answer there. Female how long have you been crossdressing? easy since around 6, which role is easier to interact with people, again easy FEM. and then she asked whether I was really a CD or TS. I dodged that one for then, but I haven't been able to get it off my mind its after 3 in the morning and I'm still struggling, with all the burried memories and feelings. I've dodged the question for so long that I'm truly afraid of admitting it, and what the consequences will be when I do. I know the answer but knowing and acknowledging it are two different and seperate things.

Hi Bonnie,

You touch on a couple of issues that I find interesting.

First I can understand the struggle to decide whether you are CD or TS. But the fear of deciding you are TS seems unfounded. Surely accepting that you are TS does not automatically mean you have take the transitioning route - if that is what you mean by the 'consequences'. You still have the freedom of choice - its not an 'OMG I'm TS - book me in for my SRS' kind of situation or do you feel it is?

The second is, and I think this applies to a lot of us, that, even if you don't really pass - you still feel more comfortable as a female. That would seem to suggest that the 'brain sex' is strong to the extent of ignoring or over coming physical shortcomings. Does that make sense?

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I 'm a closeted transvestite. I say that because I know this is about more than just cding for me since I experienced the desire to become a girl long befor I ever crossdressed. Tucking has always been the most important part to me because it gives me a feeling of peace to know they are gone. Up until now I have been able to put this away and live like for normal male for periods of time, but it is always there waiting for the opportunity. Now that I am older I know if I were left to be me all the time I would take this much further, definately to at least HRT.
Marina 12's comments also make sense to me. I am not attracted to men so maybe it is all about the "ultimate blast." Except the yearning started so long ago.

Hi Star,

Well you would seem to be TG? And you probably always were?

Fiona xx

[Star]

Hi Fiona,

I suppose I am looking for answers like so many others.

Star

[Bonnie Jean]

No the consequences I meant are from my family, very conservative, and some very religeous, with narrow view points, they would fit in reel well about forty years ago. I've talked to them since I posted that and I got 2 supporting, 2 said dont talk to me again and 1 thats its up to you but. Yes your answer does make a lot of sense.

[FionaAlexis]

Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread. I think its was one of the most informative and interesting discussions I've been involved with. I think every TG has a unique perspective of where they are, how they got there and maybe where they are heading.

Fiona xx