I clocked someone today

[MarinaKirax]

I wanted to reach out to another gurl today, and didn't. I was out today in a large mall in the area, and saw an attractive woman in a black raincoat (it was raining outside) , blond below the shoulder hair, and over the knee black boots, no heel. She was in the Top Shop store, and I noticed here only because of her height, close to mine (5'11"). I am always looking for taller women and how they carry themselves, and what they wear. I noticed her, and then..... I thought .... well you know what I realized. I scoped her from a few angles, then felt terrible about it. She really looked very good, and suddenly I felt like I should sneak over to her and say, surreptitiously, "You look great". But I was with my daughter, and I didn't. I have had this feeling often, if I see another CD, either passable, or not. Has anyone else had this experience, and have you ever gone over to another gurl and told her she looked fabulous? Was she, or was she in need of the compliment?

[Destinë]

I would probably be embarrassed, disappointed and slightly offended if a stranger told me I looked fabulous. To me it simply means that they don't find you convincing.

[Anne2345]

You gotta be careful, and use discretion. Having been the recipient of hate, mockery, and jest, one must accept what one puts themselves out there for. It does not make it right, and it does not make it suck any less. But having been the recipient of stares, mockery, foul denigrating language, and just overall douchebaginess, shit can hurt. Shit can hurt, that is, if you let it. Do your thing, if you believe in yourself. It will be hard. It will also be easy. It will run the full spectrum of what it is. But in the end, it is up to YOU to decide what is important to you. Regardless, **** the naysayers. You are better than they are. They pretty much such, and can **** themselves. You, on the other hand, are beautiful. Please be careful, though. :-)

[Beverley Sims]

Marina,
Remember she is another deer in the headlights and you should treat her the same, if you do not want to startle her.
Just stay away, if she smiles at you smile back, nothing else and if there is some other interaction then play it by ear.

[sandra-leigh]

People can be strange. On another site, in private I complimented the appearance of a woman who had said quite clearly that she was MTF in transition, but the response I got back was as if I had given her a grave insult.

Myself, I will take any sincere compliment that comes my way, even if it does imply I don't pass. One of the best compliments I've had so far was along the lines that I looked good because I looked happy.

If someone wants to compliment me by saying that I look relaxed, or that I look happy, or that my outfit is tasteful, or that being as I am looks natural for me -- bring it on! :o Heck, even if someone wants to say that even though my face looks male, that I "look like you belong", I'll take it. Because if someone looks right at me, sees my flaws, and accepts me as a person ("validates me") then I am happy.

[Nicole Erin]

I don't always pass.
I do get plenty of compliments on outfits, my hair, and my legs.
If someone is being polite, don't take it as an insult even if it suggests you don't pass. Maybe see it as opportunity knocking. And you know it knocks only once.

Here is a brief story of one time I messed up - I was at the grocery, cute outfit and high heel sandals. I was in a pissy mood for some reason. Anyways some lady said, "I want those legs!" Like a dumb butt, I kind of turned up my nose and hurried off.
What I should have done is say thanks and then, "I cannot give them to you but I can perhaps... let you use them if you like". Could've maybe got me some "leg" (yeah a stupid pun).

How awesome would that have been? she could have been enjoying the sexiest legs in trannydom and I could be rolling in the hay with a GG. But I let my 'tude get in the way.
Don;t let it happen to you.

Convincing - If someone says you look good, they may not be convinced you are a woman but they ARE convinced you are good looking. What more do you need?

[linda allen]

If a crossdresser is trying to pass and you comment on her appearance, even with a compliment, you've let her know that she's not passable. That will probably hurt her feelings.

Worse yet, suppose you compliment a person you think is a crossdresser, only to find out that she is actually a generic woman, how will that make her feel? How will it make you feel?

I think it's best to just treat her as another woman (a stranger). You probably wouldn't just walk up to a strange woman in a mall and compliment her on her looks. A suspected crossdresser would be the same.

[SheriM]

I'm not so sure that we should ignore our sisters. A nice compliment is usually taken in the spirit it was meant. I really like it when a GG says something complementary to me. Only had one male say something to me - he wanted to make contact but was as nervous as me. Finally he said that he wished he had my figure, said he only underdressed. I told him to go to crossdressers.com and we went our separate ways.
SheriM

[Michelle (Oz)]

Marina

You set me thinking about how I would feel. I don't think I pass on close inspection but I do hope that from a distance I do.

On the one hand it can be a bit lonely out femme so meeting another CDer would be good to share an occasional coffee.

The flip side is being caught off guard particularly if outed within hearing range of others. I tend to be fairly confident these days but I could still be put off.

One thought in situations like this is to be noticed by the person and see if she reacts to a friendly smile.

Michelle

[Allison Quinn]

If I ever clock people, either I say nothing to them because I think it would be rude to do so or I just compliment them as I would any other person :P
The most I would say is I like outfit or hair c:

[Rosie Moonlight]

If I was the 99% passing CDer in the store and you came over and offered me a compliment, I'd at first be grateful, then I'd be puzzled and want to ask 'what was it gave me away?' The CDer that good has obvously put in a LOT of effort and will desire perfection, if they are as good as you say they are. Perhaps if your compliment included how you passed for aaaages but it takes one to know one etc... Being 'busted' might just encouage (or help) her to up her game a bit.

[Marcelle]

Hi Marina,

Lovely avatar BTW.

I am of the mindset that I would not approach a fellow CDer while she is "en femme" in public. While I would not have a problem with a sister CDer coming up to me and saying you look good (I do not pass so I hold no illusions that I am fooling anyone), I am not sure if all feel that way. Some are trying to blend and going up to them "no matter how innocent it is, could throw them off and upset them (it really depends on the person). Besides, I would be mortified if I approached who I thought was a CDer and said you look great only to discover she was a GG, it would look a bit creepy and if her boyfriend or husband happened to be close at hand . . . it might get ugly . . . "What are doing hitting on my wife?" :eek:

Hugs

Isha

[Amy Lynn3]

Maybe I don't get it, but I like to meet other cder's. Any time I am contacted on this site or other ways, I am always glad to meet up. I see no difference out in public (for me) I would welcome another cder saying hello or maybe a compliment.

I know all people are not like me, but do you think this might work, if we approached someone, by saying something like this....I see you have on a wonderful dress, that I have wanted one like it for years. You might think I'm nuts, but I like to wear female cloths on occassion. Just out ourselves first. Just something to think about.

[sandra-leigh]

Linda, women do compliment women they don't know. They might phrase it in more specific terms like, "I love how that dress looks on you", or "Your hair looks fabulous". I had a number compliment me on my very colorful cloth purse.

About two weeks ago I complimented a GG on her skirt (or was it dress? I forget now); she broke into a smile and thanked me and said why she liked it, and twirled around to give me a look.

Perhaps "you look fabulous" might not be appropriate, but something like, "That color of blouse matches your hair well" need not be interpreted as a secret code for "Hah, clocked you!". Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[MarinaKirax]

I see the point that ANY comment is basically "you don't pass". It's a bit sad, though, because that means that for those who wold interpret the encouragement that way, the perfect passing outing is really very solitary - like a ghost reconnoitring the living world. Probably no talking, no interaction, really, trying not to be noticed. I know this, and it's exhilarating, but still somehow a bit empty.

And why do we feel so differently about encouragement from females versus males?

Still others of us make the point that passing is not the 'be all and end all', and would those ladies who don't aim to pass feel differently about being approached? It just seems so strange to see someone who I know probably feels very insecure, and I'm one of the few people who can truly empathize, and I can't go over and offer support without making it worse. I'm not tortured over it, it just seems ironic. MK

[Majella St Gerard]

A compliment is a compliment, when someone tells me I look good, I usually just blush and say thank you.

[Stephanie Miller]

I just don't understand why some think it is imperative to add crossdresing to the equation? I approach people of both genders all the time with casual "in the isle" short conversations. ( Simple comments like: Pretty shoes. Great T-shirt caption. etc.) I don't go out of my way to "stalk" someone, but if I happen to be in the same isle.....
Treat a CD the same and you can't go wrong.

[Tina B.]

Question, do you give out complements to strange women, men and children at the mall, if not what makes a CD any different.
Most of us find better use of our time at the mall than bother people that are minding there own business. Just because a guy puts on a skirt, it does not mean he is looking for a guy to bother him, just like every women out there that dresses nice is not necessarily trying to attract a man, maybe she just likes to look nice, or her job requires it.
Leave people alone, it's a shopping center, not a social center.

[BillieJoEllen]

I have seen a number of CDers talk to and pass in the general population. People talking to them never had a clue. I think as a CDer myself that I have a certain 'radar' that can see and pick out whether someone is CD or not. I believe most of us possess that ability.

[SherriePall]

First off, just because a woman is tall doesn't mean she is a CD'er. There are plenty of taller women out there, trust me.
Secondly, as Sandra Leigh posted, compliment an item such as the dress, the handbag, or shoes.

[suchacutie]

There is another way, and it's one I use whenever I can. I have also run into a few of our sisters, and I do engage them in conversation if it's possible to do so, but I treat them as any other woman. I never let on that I think that they are CD in any way. I think this is the greatest compliment we can pay each other publically (unless we know them personally, of course). It has never failed to elicit a smile!

[Melissa Rose]

This topic comes up about once a month and the replies tend to follow the same lines each time. At least we are consistent. :)

A quick and simple comment about liking her shoes, dress, etc. is fine as long as it was done in the typical way women compliment each other. I am in the camp that says err on the side of caution with taking it any further, or not approaching at all if they are looking nervous or embarrassed. I would not want to embarrass or bother someone if they would rather be left alone or go unnoticed. I would rather miss someone who would welcome the interaction than tread where I am not welcome. I would rather not take the chance of ruining someone's outing or day by making a well intended, but upsetting gesture of support or friendship. I know a few girls who would freak out if anyone approached them. If you are someone who is looking to meet other cross dressers, try a group in your area. It is one of the best way to meet others in a safe manner.

If you are very experienced with being out in public and frequently interact with others, you develop a sixth sense about compliments or comments. As an example, about a month ago I was serving wine, beer, sodas and water at a large semi-private party associated with the non-profit organization I work at so I interacted with nearly each of the 80-100 people there over several hours (you are everyone's friend when you control the alcohol). I wore a patterned, summery dress with bright colors which tends to generate a positive comment or two about the design or colors. There were 6-7 comments throughout the evening about liking my dress or my necklace. One woman told me "You look very pretty". I took this specific comment as being more supportive and not merely complimentary (i.e., she read me). It had a different feel especially in light of the context and situation. If I was trying to be stealth, her comment could have been painful it even though it was complimentary. I know I get read so I took it as a sincere compliment.

While I have no problem with someone approaching me, I know others are not ready for it so I would respect their boundaries and err on the side of caution. I have never publicly run into someone who I was sure was a cross dresser so I have never had to put my policy into practice; however, others I know have seen me while they were in drab and unable or willing to say hi.

[5150 Girl]

I wonder if it would be good policy upon reading a sister to say "Hi sister; my name is (insert your fem name here)

[MarinaKirax]

Maybe next time I'll just smile!

[Kiva]

I would give her a nice smile and wink.

[sandra-leigh]

Question, do you give out complements to strange women, men and children at the mall, if not what makes a CD any different.

I compliment women, Yes. Men certainly less often; occasionally on a T-shirt. I would compliment some of the aboriginal men on their braids if I knew the proper form to do so.

Children I am careful with, usually not doing more than smiling, or waving at an infant. People get very protective of children and innocent remarks to children might be interpreted quite badly by adults.


I wonder if it would be good policy upon reading a sister to say "Hi sister; my name is (insert your fem name here)

There is something about that phrasing that bothers me. I think I would rather have a guy come up to me and say something like, "Excuse me, would you be able to tell me where I could buy a dress like that in my size?" or say "You're very brave; I haven't dared dress outside the house", than to call me "sister". I am quite approachable but I am not your comrade. But that's me.

[SheriM]

I've had gg's come up to me and say "I love your perfume" or "I like your skirt". I like the interaction. I'm aware that I don't pass completely but think I do look good enough to go out. It's no longer a surprise when someone says something about my dress, etc. I would guess that most CD's are aware they don't pass completely - if they did, you would not know. SO - I say go ahead and say something nice. DON'T say "I can tell that you are a man but look good anyway". But "I like your shoes, can I ask where you got them?" is OK.
SheriM

[robindee36]

This can be a difficult situation. Deep inside you are bursting to make contact with another CD, or so it seems. However, they may be trying to fly under the radar and just be a woman, out and about.

My preference, and that of others here too, is to keep to myself. At most a smile but never a confrontation. I appreciate this discrete distance when I am out dressed and always afford it to others I 'clock'.

Look if they are interested in striking up a conversation, they will follow-up on your smile. If not, that's OK too.

Hugs, Robin

[Talisker]

I would not mind being approached by another CD if it was done politely. Passing to other CDs I think is very difficult as the radar is more sensitive. There have been two occasions in the last year. Firstly one stood in the centre of a busy city centre walkway. What initially caught my eye was the clothing which was pretty wedding attire whilst everyone else had saturday shopping leggings and boots. My SO also saw her and asked if I wanted to look like that. What was interesting was the lack of response from the huge number of folks going past. A few gave a double take but most didnt notice.

The second time there were 2CDs in a local hotel bar. They were sat down and it took a while till I noticed their wigs. Would have initiated a conversation with them if did not have company at the time.

I was approached by a guy near a city station who said "I looked pretty and if I wanted some company". Maybe I should start another thread with that.

[sandra-leigh]

Today, a random GG complimented my shoes, and went on to discuss how she missed the leotards that her mother used to buy her when she was young (I was wearing red tights that matched my red shoes.)

This evening, as I moved a few feet to line up for the bus, I noticed a young woman, and I noticed that she smiled at me. I boarded the bus, and somehow she sat beside me (knowing that I was wearing a dress and tights.) I complimented her on a small bag she had, and she was pleased. She then did some texting; when she was finished, I brought forward a name that she had mentioned in conjunction with the small bag, and we then proceeded to get into a conversation that we were both enjoying. I even missed my stop (but only by a couple of blocks.)

[Maryesther M.]

Treat 'her' like any other female stranger. Either no actual interaction at all or if circumstances dictate, a comment on what's around or the weather or whatever, but Absolutely Nothing personal. Ever.

M.

[Farrah]

I could be wrong, but I don't think it would've been a problem. It could've made her feel more at ease about being out. I know if someone came up to me, especially a sister, I would feel better about being out and possible break the ice for me a bit. Just my opinion. :)

[sandra-leigh]

Maryesther, does "personal" include items of clothing, accessories, or hair? Because I have complimented women I do not know on all of those - oh, and on makeup too the odd time. I seem to recall the odd time I got ignored, but most of the time I get at least a "Thank you" or a smile, and some times the women are obviously pleased.

There is a difference between a plain compliment and a "I'm a stalker" or "I want to get in your pants" compliment. And sometimes a plain compliment can be misunderstood. But then so too can be holding a door open for a person, aka "I am perfectly capable of opening the door by myself, don't be condescending and insulting". (Me, I hold doors for whomever happens to be there, only taking special care for the infirm or those with bulky objects like strollers or grocery bags or wheelchairs.)

Complimenting a woman's beauty or breasts or butt is risky: even when it is intended "objectively" and not sexually it is risky; cf. "the privilege of the male gaze". But an article of clothing or accessory is a lot less risky.

I would suggest that if you happen to pass close by then a compliment about an item would not be out of order -- but the further out of your way you go, the more the person is going to feel "singled out".

[Maryesther M.]

Sandra,

Yes I did. Complete strangers are exactly that and uninvited or unsolicited comments may only be directed at someone who one knows or who one had met before, e.g. at some activity, gathering or perhaps in a professional capacity (I'm a Dr. & a dentist, so I meet a lot of people every day and might meet them casually in the street, supermarket or petrol station, but I'd only be recognisable in male mode)

M.

[Bridgetlagurl]

Good intentions can be misconstrued. Wondering if it would be for desire to let other people know who you really are? I am ready to come out totally, but I am waiting for my wife to catch up. We do go out while I am dressed but only at night. Weird situation with your daughter, does she know? You don't want her thinking you are hitting on another woman.
Lots things in your situation that are consideration.

[Jaime77]

I also once clocked a very pretty gurl at the mall once dressed to the nines and looking QUITE lovely. My unfiltered, unbridled mouth could not help but to express 'sweet!' Whereupon her response was to thank me.

[Tamara Croft]

I wanted to reach out to another gurl today, and didn't.She'll probably be glad you didn't.


and suddenly I felt like I should sneak over to her and say, surreptitiously, "You look great".Do you normally go up to women and say how great they look??

I find this behaviour odd, would you like another 'gurl' coming up to you whilst you were out and about shopping minding your own business, hoping you blend in telling you how good you look? or would you be embarrassed at being read... You're basically outing them! not cool...

[Chickhe]

I feel offended when someone comments about my appearance in either guy or female mode. It just doesn't feel good to be judged by someone... a simple complement on something I am wearing from someone I know is okay. If you are out in public trying to blend and not drawing attention to yourself...you don't really want someone to run up to you and start talking to you, especially about gender. ...think of it like this...you run up to an undercover cop and start telling them you know they are a cop...not appreciated. You are in a library and start talking to someone about the book they are reading...you both like books, but its not the time or place.

[AnntoAnn]

I think it is best just to smile and move on. I know I do not pass all the time and have been spotted/outed a few times good and bad. I know what usually gives me away and a just put up with it. I tend to blend in and keep myself to myself. I have been approached by another CD (dressed) while out shopping and they said they just had to say something. The only problem is that they clearly did not pass and so we then attracted looks and sniggers that I certainly did not get before. I was uncomfortable to say the least. She was pleasant, but I just wanted to get away. I felt bad about that, but at the time I was getting uncomfortable.

[Tracii G]

Actually had this happen tonight at dinner a first for me.
I was doing an enfemme day and stopped to get some BBQ at a place I have gone to enfemme and never had any problems.
Walked in and waited in line with a few people got my dinner and headed for a table.
I was looking around and found an empty table and a lady stopped me by saying Oh Miss?
I stopped and she said are you going to take that table? I said well its the only clean table I see so yes.
She said good its my friends first time out and she is very nervous.I did a double take and by golly 3 sisters at the table !!!
I smiled and said OMG this is soo funny nice to meet you ladies are you from around here?
They said no we're from Ashland Ky and had come here to do some shopping.
I welcomed them and asked them if they were having a good time to which they said we sure are now that you're here.LOL
All the chatter was about TG/ CD related things,shopping and shoes etc.
So 3 new friends Amy,Abby and Crystal all because they said hi to me first.
I guess pick your poison when it comes to meeting others.I can't say you shouldn't but sometimes you should.

[I Am Paula]

Please don't approach somebody you see en femme, unless you are at a TG event. It's a blow to the self esteem to think the avg. Joe (you, in drab) can tell. A few of you girls mention that you get compliments when out. Yes, but I'll guess only once a conversation has started, as in with a store SA, hair stylist etc.
You will never know the situation that brought this person here. A CD's first time out, and it was difficult enough just to get out the door. A TS, trying her best to fly under the radar, or a nervous youth, trying to figure out where in the gender spectrum he or she belongs. These are people to which being clocked can be more than just an embarrassment, it can be a set back in whatever journey they are on.- Paula, a TS just trying to fly under the radar.

[Wildaboutheels]

Like so many here, you can only THINK you clocked someone.

Unless you saw their "body parts"? Even then, there are numerous folks here somewhere in between at least for a short time.

I have known a few GGs in my life with "male voices" that could easily fool people if you were to only have a phone conversation.

Body shape? Come to Florida and observe all the skin on display practically year round. People come in all shapes and sizes.

I think part of the trouble here, is that many folks WANT to find others of a like kind, so they don't feel like they are rowing alone?

[mykell]

i dont go out as mikell, but if i did when that day comes i feel a compliment of shoes or jewelry, clothing would be better than looks, just getting a compliment here took some getting used to, i work in retail and often interact with folks while working and find out quickly who is at ease with interactions and move along with those not in a comfort zone,
since joining the forum and reading all the threads here and seeing some of the avatars of some here that like to get out and are perfectionists there is now a question mark about who i may be looking at. will still interact with folks but (clocking, new here, when i read the title my male me assumed you got hit on and took offense to the way it was done and [clocked] him!!) would never be something i would try, meeting girls would be through this forum or one of the gatherings listed. there would be a comfort zone for me that way.

try this scenario - it happened to me once, insert heel in mouth
"oooo how soon are you due" reply "im not pregnant"

[larry]

If I ever clock people, either I say nothing to them because I think it would be rude to do so or I just compliment them as I would any other person :P
The most I would say is I like outfit or hair c:

You mean like: I love your hair. Your eyes are beautiful. Your lips are fantastic. Your whole face is SO cute.--Oh sorry just looking at your profile pic. hehe have a great day..

[UNDERDRESSER]

A situation I find myself in is a good example of a reason for caution.

A very nice customer we have, when I first saw her, I didn't know quite who I was dealing with. These days, I'm fairly certain that she is a FtM TS. The transition was late in life, and I think, possibly still ongoing? Hard to say without asking, but I think she is now post-op, but is still pursuing further "enhancements" as money permits. Very masculine face, though that has softened over the last 2 years.

When I first saw her, she looked like a not very convincing CD. Think how she might have reacted if I had identified her as such, even if she had looked better and I had complimented her on some aspect? Tricky.

Now I know her fairly well, on a customer/SA basis, if the subject came up, I might say something about how I am awe of her bravery, though I think I would just use some conversational gambit to give her an opportunity to open up a bit. She obviously knows that the first presentation was a bit off, but I tried to treat her as normally as possible. She at first made a point of seeking me out, I think because I did treat her normally.

As an aside, I think one reason that some men are aggressive to CDers and TS, is that some are so pleased to be treated in a friendly fashion, or even in a carefully neutral way, they seek such people out, and this can come across as flirting, or trying to strike up a relationship. I get this sometimes with some women, (GG) who appear to be trying to hit on me. What do you do? They are not asking for my number, but there is a definite hint in the air. I've taken to trying to drop my GF into the conversation. A lot of guys who might be quite accomplished at deflecting unwanted attention from a GG, (or accepting it!) frequently freeze up when it comes from a TS or CD. They get scared, and fear turns very quickly to anger and aggression.

[Stephanie47]

Marina zeroed in on the woman because she was near her 5'11' height. Forever I've scoped out taller women. Not because I'm trying to figure out if they are a CDer or a GG, but, because.... well I don't know. Maybe, it's because I'm 6' even (down from 6'1 1/2") and married to a woman who is 5'2". Maybe I'm trying to see how life would stack up differently if I was married to a tall woman. I've seen only one CD-er in my area who is tall. If I were inclined to run over and say hi to a CD-er I would have said something that was not complimentary. When I was in San Francisco a long time ago I did see two tall very attractive CD-ers, who were totally passable. Nobody gave them a second look. Maybe, I "clocked" them because I was giving them scrutiny because I was trying to ascertain whether they were CD-ers.

I really do not think it is appropriate to just run up to anyone and invade their privacy. Now, I will say, if I am in line waiting for a long time, I will strike up a conversation. It just does not seem to be appropriate to run up to someone unless there is some communality to the situation. Recently an active duty soldier came up to me on Veterans' Day weekend and struck up a conversation because I was wearing a baseball cap with the same brigade he was also in, but, forty years later. To me that was OK. I was advertising myself.

No matter how much I like the dress a woman may be wearing, I would never run up to her and ask her where she got.