PDA

View Full Version : Narcissism and crossdressing



Frédérique
10-15-2013, 02:01 PM
“How dare I be so beautiful?” (part IV of Supper’s Ready by Genesis)

The other night, or was it a week ago, or two weeks ago (?), I switched on the TV, as is my wont, and I was on the wrong channel. It’s the story of my life, I know, but there happened to be a program about narcissism going on. Just before I switched the channel I heard a woman say, “Narcissism is fascination with one’s self-image.” That stuck in my mind, and, needless to say, I thought about crossdressing and crossdressers, which is also my wont…

Around the same time, I was reading the book Nothing if not Critical, a collection of art criticism essays by the late Robert Hughes, and he was describing, in detail, the narcissism of American artist Julian Schnabel. The latter, apparently, didn’t care for Hughes (go figure), and he declared him to be a non-person because the art critic didn’t appreciate his self-appointed greatness. Interesting. Also, I began to wonder about all the posts on this site, specifically the ones where people talk about themselves in the third person, the ones about relationship problems, and the ones where one personality clashes with another. Hold on – I just got a PM from someone telling me all about themselves, and how they feel about it. My opinion was not solicited. Hmmm…

Are you now, or have you ever been narcissistic? Are ALL crossdressers narcissistic, to a certain degree, and is this a good or a bad thing? If narcissism is fascination with one’s self-image, then, it follows, the MtF crossdresser must be highly narcissistic. I mean, from the moment I first got all dolled-up and looked in the mirror, I was fascinated with what I saw, and many here would echo those sentiments. In my case, self-love was already in place, so acceptance of my new “image” was assured. Others might not be so lucky, but I think we all need a bit of narcissism…

I had to do some research about this (to mollify the closed minds, I won’t say where). How many of these narcissistic traits ring a bell with you:

An obvious self-focus in exchanges; problems in sustaining satisfying relationships; difficulty with empathy; hypersensitivity to any insults (real or imagined); vulnerability to shame rather that guilt; flattery towards those who admire you; exaggerating one’s achievements (boasting); inability to view the world from the perspective of other people; pretending to be more important than you really are; denial of remorse and gratitude; and lack of psychological awareness.

I don’t claim to be an expert (as a true narcissist might), but I think a lot of these narcissistic traits are concentrated here, in the wonderful world of crossdressing, and are represented by this site. Like it or not, pleasure in being one’s self will produce some narcissism. It’s not easy to be a crossdresser, and to keep doing so requires some defensive measures and a healthy dose of selfish behavior. You can let it all out here, and maybe throw in an exaggeration or two, all as a means to an end. Whenever I read a post describing one’s outing, dressed, into the Real World, I just smile, knowing that I am among like-minded narcissistic souls…

Narcissism can be a good thing. A bit of self-centeredness, or a bit of overwhelming self-regard, certainly can’t hurt – we need to feel like we can do anything, feel GOOD about ourselves, and perhaps impose ourselves a little. Look around – this is going on all around us, right now, on this very site. This place is the repository of healthy narcissism. I would say that being a crossdresser requires one to be narcissistic, and neither state, former or latter, is a BAD thing…

Of course, some see narcissism as a collection of deadly sins. A narcissistic individual can be shameless, or arrogant, or exploitive, or envious, seeing themselves as perfect and others as lesser beings. I’ve been the victim of such individuals, but I know that others see me as arrogant, or shameless, or worse. Perhaps I can’t “stand” toe to toe with another crossdresser unless I am equally narcissistic. I wonder. Is my house of cards bigger than YOUR house of cards? Am I causing narcissistic injury by saying that? It’s up to you, I guess, but, even though I am a narcissist, and happy to be so, I am completely harmless to you. Of course, if you’re a narcissist, you already know that, or feel that, if you've noticed me, that is...

Talking about yourself goes over big here. You can project yourself onto others, and they, in turn, project themselves onto anyone they wish. It’s addictive, and FUN, all part and parcel of being a healthy narcissist. In fact, this place is a good example of collective narcissism – I’m surprised the psychological pundits don’t point a bony finger in our direction, in regards to that notion…

You see, collective narcissism (or group narcissism) is a type of narcissism where an individual has an inflated self-love of his or her own group (in which the individual is personally involved). You can have an excessively high opinion of a group (in “our” case LGBT, or just the T), and this group functions as a narcissistic entity, with all of the characteristics, good and bad, that I have already alluded to. That may explain a few things, but please don’t take that the wrong way…

Well, thanks for reading. I have to get back to looking at my “self” in the mirror, in my favored self-absorbed state, per the requirements of being an MtF crossdresser. Are you narcissistic, darling?
:thinking:

PS – Don’t confuse narcissism with egocentrism, OK? :naughty

Confucius
10-15-2013, 02:35 PM
I sometimes visit the crossdresserwives.com forum, and the discussion from the wives has focused upon narcissism several times. I have to say that the wives don't like it. They see narcissism as intrinsic to crossdressing. They see their husband's first love as their own female alter ego. They see their husbands as making love to their female alter ego, they feel like their husband's second love, and they feel hurt. The idea of crossdressing as a form of narcissism is also found in the autogynephilia diagnosis. Finally all forms of fetishes can be defined as using objects as a substitute for our need for human intimacy.

One source has told me that a crossdresser's brain is hard-wired to interpret crossdressing as actual contact with a female. When he feminizes himself his brain goes into action, declaring contact with a female, and releases dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and other neurotransmitters which produce the sensations of well-being, pleasure, sexual gratification, and bonding. (Dopamine is associated with the expectation of gratification, and addiction, while oxytocin is associated with bonding, comfort, and belonging.) It affects the reward centers of the brain, and thus mimics the addiction response. There is a craving for the dopamine rush which results in the crossdresser feeling a need to take his self feminization further and further. however, in one sense the crossdresser really doesn't love to wear feminine clothes, he just loves the sensations from the neurotransmitters and is using crossdressing as the tool to get his brain to release them.

ReineD
10-15-2013, 02:42 PM
There are many symptoms to narcissism including the classic love of one's own image. But in interpersonal relationships, the narcissist has a self focus that goes beyond an obcession of his/her image. The narcissist cannot acknowledge someone else's likes and dislikes, values, opinions, etc, and this makes it difficult for him or her to have mutually satisfying relationships. There is no empathy or understanding for differing points of view.

In this sense, I don't think that CDers are narcissists, although I'm sure there are narcissists who crossdress.

Speaking of oneself in the third person indicates an internal schism between two aspects of the personality, and not narcissism.

Although relationships with narcissists are doomed to failure, not every failed relationship is caused by a partner's narcissism.

I don't think that doing things to help us feel good about ourselves is being narcissistic. And if someone brags about it unduly (as opposed to encouraging others who suffer from the same disadvantages), then it's an indication they have rather poor self-esteem.

Is there such a thing as healthy narcissism? Looking at oneself in the mirror with an approving eye (as long as it is not an obsession) shows healthy self-esteem and not narcissism. It's good to like who we are.

Last, I don't think that a narcissist is able to recognize him/herself when reading a list of symptoms.

I was married to a narcissist (who did not crossdress). The key word here is "was".

Kirsten1
10-15-2013, 02:45 PM
Hmm. This is not a scientific or medical type of response but I think crossdressers do have a component of narcissism but
"inability to view the world from the perspective of other people;" is off the mark. C/D's are trying very hard to view the world from another person or genders perspective. Yes it is a "self" interest but an effort to be other than the self. For that it takes a lot of psychological effort.

Kirsten

kimdl93
10-15-2013, 02:53 PM
I think it's a valid observation. I don't think that there are many pathologically narcissistic CDrs, in fact I suspect that healthy self esteem actually seems a bit lacking from a good many CDrs, just because they may have felt guilt, shame and self loathing for much of their lives. I have dealt with that myself and to this day, have a uneasy rather than positive reaction to my reflection in a mirror or photograph (en femme or male mode) and still cringe just a bit when offered a compliment.

Also, in a discussion group on this subject, we really have two options...talk about the problems, joys, obstacles and accomplishments of others, or our own. I sometimes edit out those comments that address another persons post into my own experience...but not always. And I admit, I like to share my experience and insights as much as anyone...after 12000 post, perhaps more so. Perhaps I'm borderline. Or just gregarious.

jenni_xx
10-15-2013, 03:30 PM
An obvious self-focus in exchanges; problems in sustaining satisfying relationships; difficulty with empathy; hypersensitivity to any insults (real or imagined); vulnerability to shame rather that guilt; flattery towards those who admire you; exaggerating one’s achievements (boasting); inability to view the world from the perspective of other people; pretending to be more important than you really are; denial of remorse and gratitude; and lack of psychological awareness.

That pretty much comes across as a Barnum statement. I think you could pretty much use that to describe anyone, from any group, background, class, social standing, etc etc.

To answer your question - "are all crossdressers narcissistic". I would say no. I would say not even to a certain degree. Some may be, but then some may be shy, some may be extroverts, some may be kind, some may be selfish. I genuinely believe that crossdressers can be fall under any personality trait, just as anyone else can. I genuinely do believe that the only thing that binds crossdressers together under one umbrella is the fact that we crossdress. No more, no less.

Mssusan
10-15-2013, 03:40 PM
Narcissism is a whole lot more than admiring and focusing on oneself, as Reine posted. I also think it's incorrect to lump all crossdressers together under a set of characteristics, motivations, and reactions.

There is nothing wrong with taking time for self care and self admiration, when it's balanced with care and admiration of others. I would also not confuse the pink fog with narcissism, as it's a phase.

Cynthia Anne
10-15-2013, 04:09 PM
Why do I get the feeling IF I set here bragging that I'm not actually proves that I am!!

NicoleScott
10-15-2013, 04:16 PM
Not every CDer dresses for the fascination of their own image. Some dress to express their internal feminine identity. But I'm one of those CDers who dress for the mirror, so as a part-time dresser, I guess I'm a part-time narcissist. I have no such fascination of my self-image in guy mode. While I like the other aspects of crossdressing such as the feel of the fabrics, the smells of flowery perfumes, and the sounds of high heels clicking and fabrics swishing, it's the look that compels me the most by far. I could do without the others, but I can't imagine transforming without a mirror - not just for doing makeup - but for admiring the finished product.

LaraPeterson
10-15-2013, 04:27 PM
I, personally, am not a narcissist; I am simply smarter, better looking, and more accomplished than most everyone around me. On top of that, I only live by two rules in life. RULE #1: I am always right. RULE #2: If you disagree with me, refer to rule #1.

BTW, my life relationships are not doomed to failure. They are very, very successful and have lasted for decades. That's because all the wonderful people around me accept me with my utter superiority.

Some people blow smoke because they can't speak or write intelligently about an interesting subject. Others just tell it like it is. Thank you Freddie for being the later.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha (with a venomous scowl and guttural growl).

julietalyse
10-15-2013, 04:44 PM
Narcissistic behavior is a normal human function. Look at any baby, 100% narcissistic. As we mature, some of us gain understanding about others. We build our decision making around our experiences so that we may become empathic, and to some degree, consider the feelings of others. The difference is not the expressed behavior but the guiding personality behind the behavior.

MatildaJ.
10-15-2013, 05:26 PM
PS – Don’t confuse narcissism with egocentrism, OK? [/COLOR]

What distinction are you trying to draw, here, Freddy? I think all people are a bit egocentric/narcissistic, and it's important to try to keep it in check in order to get along with others. When trying to understand the utility of distinguishing between the two terms, I stumbled on this; is this what you're talking about?

>> In egocentrism, you’re unable to see someone else’s point of view; but in narcissism, you may see that view but not care about it. Going even one step further, people high in narcissism become annoyed or even enraged when others fail to see things their way. >>
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201204/it-s-fine-line-between-narcissism-and-egocentrism

Alice Torn
10-15-2013, 06:47 PM
I am sure the whole spectrum is represented with cders, as well as others. I am a narcissist, who tries not to be. I have very few friends or relationships. My dad is a lifelong narcissist. He never grew up. It;s all about him. And he had almost no friends, and was not interested in his sons' hobbies. None of my siblings are in relationships, either. Can psychpathic and sociopathic behavior, be in there, too. I suspect there is some. I analyze myself a lot, and see a lot of self centeredness. I do nice things for others, and animals, but, i have extremely hard time making friends, or relationships. Boundries are a huge problem, knowing where i end, and you begin, and you end, and i begin (enmeshment).

LilSissyStevie
10-15-2013, 09:12 PM
There would seem to be more borderlines here than narcissists.

Beverley Sims
10-15-2013, 10:59 PM
Frédérique,
I think I have outgrown the phase.

Maryesther M.
10-15-2013, 11:10 PM
I identify with LaraP.

I'm so near to absolute perfection that it's downright scary!

My 'relationship' with CD-ing is entirely about narcissississm. Everything I put on I need to check in a mirror and if I like the results, photograph myself, spend time editing the results which give me lasting narcissistic pleasure for years afterwards.

M.

TheMissus
10-16-2013, 02:33 AM
My H is absolutely part narcissist. Funny, but I don't think it makes him a bad guy, just a guy who knows what he wants and goes after it. Part of me thinks many men hold this trait. But yep, an obsession with physical image is something I've noticed in two key groups:

Crossdressers and teenage girls.

And teenage girls are most DEFINITELY narcissists, lol

Tamara Croft
10-16-2013, 02:39 AM
And teenage girls are most DEFINITELY narcissists, lolI don't think so, they are teenagers, NOT narcissists!

TheMissus
10-16-2013, 03:48 AM
It's called sarcasm, Tamara. Sorry, but not all GGs here LOVE their H's CD. Some of us need to laugh or joke about it when we can or seriously, we won't stay married.

If this forum is just about fawning and praising and general fluff, then I believe this thread just answered itself.

Sissy_Michelle
10-16-2013, 08:08 AM
Very good discussion. Although remember when we were looking for a mate? Be it a Man or Woman, what qualities were you looking for in that person? How much time did they spend in the "Looking Glass" getting ready for you. Or to be seen with you? Anything in excess is harmful. Sharing our little victories in our cross dressing journeys with like minded people, can that be considered "Narcissistic"?

I find that this discussion is above my education level. Enjoy the day ladies and "don't forget the sunscreen"

@--}----

MysticLady
10-16-2013, 08:48 AM
:thinking:.....................

Amanda M
10-16-2013, 08:59 AM
Speaking as one of those bony-fingered psychological types, Reine has it 100% right. But here we are again, back on the labelling merry-go-round.

We are mostly different, so let's celebrate our unique identities.