Suzy is staying in her closet

[suzy1]

Last Sunday I was at a race circuit [Brands Hatch] and it was the lunch brake for us marshals, six of us.
So for some reason men that wear dresses came up in the conversation.
After about five minutes of jokes about the ‘weirdoes that dress like a woman’ the conversation moved on.

Will I come out of the closet anytime soon?..................I think not!

[kimdl93]

or don't come out among race marshals. There may be more accepting venues.

[Cynthia Anne]

Come on out Suzy! There ought to be a law that says it's illegal to hide all that BEAUTY from the rest of us! Shame on you!!!!!!

[Beverley Sims]

Suzy,
I know all well where you are coming form and it is the best way you can enjoy both worlds.
I am also aware of what is outside the closet.
I will send Basil Fawlty in to check the closet for white ants though. :)

[suzy1]

or don't come out among race marshals. There may be more accepting venues.

The point I was making was the world can be nasty place for girls like us.
And what happened on Sunday just reminded me and reinforced my resolve to never come out.
I am not a coward its just a choice that I and many other CD girls choose for very good reasons, including people like that!

And thank you Cynthia:)

[Fran Moore]

Yep, I'm riding on the same bus you are Suzy. Two seperate worlds for me, and I enjoy them both. No reason to upset the apple cart at this point.

[tiffanyjo89]

Like I posted in another thread, many people's experiences with CDers isn't a very positive one. I realize that a lot of us are not in positions to come out to others, mainly because it would lead to a battle they can't or don't need to fight, but if a lot of people knew that most crossdressers aren't perverted "weirdos in women's clothing" but rather the guy next door, or the guy in the next cubicle, or the guy sitting on their right or left while they are making the jab at the "weirdos" they'd think twice about the ribbing. While it is sometimes seen as a sign of bonding, particularly in male circles, to give someone a hard time about something like "Oh man, I'd never be caught dead doing something girly like watching a musical. By the way, Jimmy, how was Grease last night?" it actually can discourage people from being true to themselves, mainly because that teasing can be perceived as a mild form of bullying.

That being said, I know what it's like to be in a crowd of people who, if they knew about your CDing, would run you out of town thinking you were perverted. In many circles, if they found out about someone CDing, they'd be like that scene in Family Guy, where Stewie was posing as a girl and in a beauty pageant and his wig falls off, a crowd of people in Texas exclaim "It's one of those queerosexuals, get 'im!" and proceed to chase them down wanting to beat all of the Griffin family up.

[Lynn Marie]

I love dressing at home. Always have and always will. I especially like being able to switch parts of an outfit to find the very best mix. Then settle down with a glass of wine and enjoy the erotic sensations of heels and hose and garters and...........

[Trishpdxcd2]

I am in the closet too but I think it is sad that much of the world views cd's as they do and I always applaud girls who venture out of the closet and make the world a little more acceptable for all of us. I was out openly in Las Vegas and walked around femme a few months ago and it was a totally different and wonderful feeling.

[hallie]

It seems to me that people just say things like that in group situations not to "look weird" themselves and be apart of the group. Dressing aside, it happens to all of us.

This would have been a good opportunity to try and see if they were just being socially accepted or actually are close minded by throwing a neutral (yet fun) curve ball. Like Poking fun : " Ya Dave, but you would look pretty in a dress" (during joke time) or "I hear some wives/GF's like to dress up their hubbies" or "did you hear that there are couples doing this stuff together now"?


just my 2cents

[Karren H]

Obviously they were referring to the ones who don't dress with your style and class! :)

[robindee36]

Suzy, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the closet. It gets a bit crowded in here, but some of us would not be able to do this with out its relative security. Would I like the freedom to dress openly, of course. Do I recognize this is not going to happen? Of course. Well, I do get out enfemme from time to time ;)

However, this does not mean the enjoyment we get from dressing must be relegated to the closet's confines in totality. Rather, it means we must exercise some judgment understating the perception others may have of us. The world is not ready for 'in your face' crossdressers, though some queens still have a go at it.

Be happy and have fun with this thing we love. Get out when you can and enjoy your femininity as the occasions arise.

Hugs, Robin

[Lorileah]

quick thought. Narrow mindedness is contagious. What if they had said that about an ethnic group? Gays? Physically handicapped people? Or even more subtle, goths, preppies, motorcyclists? Seems they had an easy shot and since no one was going to stop them they took it. I wonder what they would do if they found out the champion of the circuit was...gay? Or a crossdresser? I would even suspect they would not accept a woman in that role because it threatens their masculinity.

Narrow minded people seek their own. Just the discussion had to make you feel uncomfortable. I would seriously consider not being their friend...but that is me.

[suzy1]

Narrow minded people seek their own. Just the discussion had to make you feel uncomfortable. I would seriously consider not being their friend...but that is me.

The point is most people do not understand us. They have preconceived ideas about us including my friends and my family. So do I stop being friends with them all then Lorileah?
Your views on this are simplistic.

I tell all my fellow marshals and then there will be no more involvement in motorsport for me and it’s a major part of my life! I am well known by most other marshals around the race circuits.

They are not narrow minded unless you count the vast majority of mankind as being narrow minded.

We must try to live in the real world.

[Frédérique]

After about five minutes of jokes about the ‘weirdoes that dress like a woman’ the conversation moved on.

At least a “presence” of males who dress like women has been established where you are. In my little corner of the world, a gaggle of males would never bring up that particular topic in conversation, since the MtF crossdresser is a rare bird indeed – out of sight, out of mind…

[Stephanie47]

I posted on an earlier thread that the problem of cross dressing does not lay with the cross dresser. It lays with the narrow minded bias people. Lorileah asks what about ethnic groups, gays,physically handicapped, etc. Well, the narrow minded people put down anyone who is not themselves. Yes, it may be a group thing. Some may just sit or join in. That may be part of the problem. I see it every day. I encounter people who have known me for a very long time and they must think, since I've known them that long, I have the same beliefs as them. Well, they end up putting both feet in their mouths.

In most people's minds cross dressing still does not compute.

There is more tolerance towards gays and lesbians and transsexuals.

I prefer to enjoy my cross dressing. I don't have a problem. People who don't accept what I may due have the problem. I remain in the closet because negative effects of cross dressing slop over to family, job, etc.

[stephNE]

I will agree, the problem lies with the narrow minded people, not with cross dressing. At my "advanced age", I don't seem to care as much about what others think about it. Going out is fun for me and that is all that counts. That said, for any one who only want to dress in private, we should all be fine and accepting with that too. We are all individuals, and everyone has the right to be themselves (short of illegal things or hurting others of course).

[Lorileah]

So do I stop being friends with them all then Lorileah?
Your views on this are simplistic.



So you condone this activity by not standing up. You didn't have to say "Hey! I am one!" but you could have said "Hey, you know different strokes. Now about the Ford Fiesta..." but no that would be simplistic. By allowing people to make jokes or derogatory remarks and not confronting them, you are basically condoning them. Simplistic? Yes. But then again, a better world starts with a simple idea.

And no I wouldn't not be "friends" with them but I would not make an effort to be with them either

[suzy1]

And no I wouldn't not be "friends" with them but I would not make an effort to be with them either

My own family and all my friends?
We will agree to disagree on this Lorileah but I respect your viewpoint.

[Bria]

Suzy, I'm sorry that you were hurt by the commentsof the other marshals who have a styerotypical veiw of us. I think that acceptannce is something that only comes slowly as people become knowable of other lifestyles. Not to many years ago gays and lesbians were just "queers" and now there is much more acceptance of these lifestyles.

I'm not suggesting that you should have told the other marshals that you are cd, but acceptance will come from a slow prosess of education of the general public. Do what you can when in drab to suggest that cd's are not all that different from other lifestyles, ie not preverts or some other weird thing.

Just by the way, I wish I could be a race participant at Brand Hatch, it is such a famous venue. I have only been to tracks in the US. My favorite way to enjoy them is as a driver, I've been at it for about 40 years. Bria

[melanie206]

These are many people these days that get angry at "others" just because they like the president or think waiting periods for gun owners might be a good idea. I wouldn't conduct my life according to the preferences of the ignorant and closed minded.

[ShriekCassandra]

I'm glad when a person or group I happen to be with are open about their attitudes towards lifestyles different form their own. It means I can decide whether I need to bother listening to them or not in the future.

[Lynn Marie]

So why can't it just be okay if other folks don't understand us? Must we label them as "narrow minded"? Maybe they are just afraid to admit that they might find CD's attractive and that might mean that they're sort of "gay"!

I can live with folks that may be afraid of me. I kind of like the ones who find me attractive and are not afraid to say so.

[reb.femme]

Hi Suzi,

I went Marshalling at Brands for the motorbikes years ago, 70s in fact. Southern 67 I believe was the club. One or two decent memories with my dad there.

On the subject of confronting everyone who makes a remark we don't like, sometimes I do make a stand, sometimes I don't. But I also stand by, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Rebecca

[Kandy Barr]

Sad to say Suzy but it is for the most part an un accepting world out there, I do go out from time to time but am very careful about when and where I go..... nothing wrong with the closet GF. Just makes me thankful for this place and all the others here!!

[DonnaT]

Next time, pick one of the guys out and say, "If you dressed up, I wouldn't think you were a weirdo. Who cares if you like sitting around the house in a house dress!? You'd still be the same guy to me."

[Shirley Anne]

My reply in these sort of situations whether it be about CFs,gaysor any other minority groupis ,it would be a boring life if we were all the same, besides I might look damn good in a dress.

[RADER]

Suzy:
I am with you on the closet thing; But I found it cramped, so about 10 years ago now,
I added to the House/closet with a large addition.
Now I have a much bigger closet to Rome around in.
Rader

[suzy1]

Yes RADER, the closet is so nice and cosy. I am a very happy bunny in my one and life is good.:)

[Rogina B]

Don't you feel that by not throwing out a "counter opinion" that you are sort of throwing"your lifestyle" under the bus? To say nothing counter[and speaking up doesn't have to "out" you. Like Lori,what if they were putting down race or religion,or some other form of bigotry? I just think you could have had something POSITIVE to interject and take the wind out of their sails...

[kimdl93]

I'm perfectly happy that you're perfectly happy in your cozy closet, Suzy. You don't feel the interest, desire or need to go out, so why bother. That's entirely ok. ...although I do recall that you recently went out to offer a cup of tea to an attractive gentleman working near your home... So the closet isn't hermetically sealed is it :)

And I know people - acquaintances I'd characterize them as - who might express attitudes like the fellows you described in the OP. I'm not sure why gay or TG people would come up in such group. Maybe its macho posturing, but recall a recent post where a brother who often made such disparaging remarks actually proved to be much more accepting when the abstract notion of TG turned out to be his own sibling.

I guess my point is that genderphobic comments of a group of guys doesn't make the world any less safe for those of us who do choose to go out. My guess is that none of these fellows really harbors any ill will or intent to harm...it was simply thoughtless bigotry.

[Jilmac]

I've been in your high heels Suzy but unlike you I have come out to numerous people. There are however, places and people I would never mention my dressing to. My previous jobs as carpenter and truck driver, and my present job in a hardware store are several of those places. I'm usually observant of my surroundings to know whom I can trust and those I can't. Those who I've come out to are very supportive and understanding.

[Jackie7]

Perhaps you could constructively shift the chat a degree or two without coming out or being at all confrontational: "yah well what about those folks who dress up for Revolutionary War enactments? Ever been to the Renaissance Faire? And have you seen those kids doing cosplay?" You might be surprised by what comes out, and how the chat might could shift toward acceptance of different strokes in costume games.

[suzy1]

Don't you feel that by not throwing out a "counter opinion" that you are sort of throwing"your lifestyle" under the bus? To say nothing counter[and speaking up doesn't have to "out" you. Like Lori,what if they were putting down race or religion,or some other form of bigotry? I just think you could have had something POSITIVE to interject and take the wind out of their sails...

Several reasons why I did not ‘throw out a counter opinion’ Rogina.

One, you start that and they start jumping to conclusions, “so you are a trany then?”

Two, I am not that good a person to worry too much about fighting for the cause, sorry.

Three, the next race was forming up on the start line and I had to get back on post.

Four, if it did get out that I am a crossdresser my life would effectively be over. No motorsport, no friends and my family never looking at me in the same way ever again.

You live in your world Rogina, I will live in my world!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Suzy, Pick your battles wisely.

[Rogina B]

.

Four, if it did get out that I am a crossdresser my life would effectively be over. No motorsport, no friends and my family never looking at me in the same way ever again.

You live in your world Rogina, I will live in my world!

Suzy,You are welcome to live in your world.However,some of us here think that it wouldn't have been wrong to nicely derail that conversation..without outting yourself..It can be done.. Anyway,I had a thought when I read your response...I hope you have a secret "disposal plan" in place if anything happens to you! I can picture a well attended church service for you when someone starts whispering around that "they found a trunk hidden away with no dust on it...so HE must have been one of THOSE.." As the word spreads,your friends get up and leave the service! Do you really think your secret life is THAT bad?

[Ressie]

Suzy needs a hug. I've been in similar situations and it can be such a shock that it's hard to know what to say. It's so unexpected - suddenly someone is commenting on a TG in a negative way. Anything said in their defense can open up a can of worms. I tried to enlighten someone in a group setting once but didn't want to get into a whole discussion that would reveal my expertise on transgender.

[Dianne S]

Maybe I travel in the wrong circles, but I've never heard anything negative about trans-people from my friends or colleagues. If I did, I'd probably speak up. I'm pretty well-known for being on the so-called "liberal" end of the spectrum when it comes to gay rights (which most people confuse with trans-rights), so I'm not worried anyone would suspect anything.

[Pumped]

I have had conversations simular to this come up at work, or around a bunch of guys at a pub. I take the high road and defend the crossdresser, or gay person, what ever the arguement may be. Of course the conversation gets turned against me, and I get accused of being a crossdresser or gay, but I just play it that I have no issue how another person lives their lives as long as it does not impact mine. The other guys in the conversation generally give me a hard time about it, but once they see that I really do not react the conversation moves on to something else.

A while back at work someone mentioned guys wearing "woman's" high heels and how weird it was. I said that I had not problem with someone wearing what ever they wanted to and one of the guys made a wise crack to me. "you would look good in a pair of high heeled heels". I agreed with him and said I prefer closed toe pumps with a 4 inch heels. Everyone just looked and me and said nothing and the conversation just stopped! I am pretty sure they were trying to figure out if I was joking or not!

[Erica Marie]

Suzy dont be afraid. Just choose the company you want to keep. You dont need to come out to everyone if it is too scary. I know i wont. Erica usually takes a small trip before she goes out.

[Lorileah]

Having been around professional motorsports and drivers (as well as other professional athletes), I really wonder if your life would be over. Seems that the job you do on the course should be what makes you in the sport, not the underwear you wear. :idontknow:

I have said it before, it matters not that you are part of a certain demographic, when that demographic is the butt of disparaging remarks and jokes, it doesn't take much to change the subject and say "you know, what you are saying is wrong, now let's talk about....".

And, no Dawn, you travel in the right circles. Degradation is the easiest form of humor. It takes the least amount of thinking. So when someone degrades another I see it as a sign of immaturity and lack of self confidence. As Rogina stated, you don't have to out yourself, you just have to stand up for what is right. If they ask "are you a crossdresser?" you can always do what you do now...just say "no". If they ask why you are defending us, just say that you don't think that being mean and derogatory to any lifestyle or group is very mature.

I used to be one of those who told jokes about ethnic groups or minorities. I do understand how when you are in a pack, you get the pack mentality. Sure, you want to belong. I was 18. Now I have moved beyond that. People in my circle have moved beyond that. We still laugh and joke, we just don't do it at others' expense. Our own expense perhaps, but not those who are not there to defend themselves.

[ReineD]

After about five minutes of jokes about the ‘weirdoes that dress like a woman’ the conversation moved on.

Of course it's entirely your choice as to whether to dress in public or not, but I just want to say that people like those men would not say anything to a TG's face if they encountered one. They would keep their opinions to themselves, even if they related the encounter to their friends afterwards.

I don't know if this makes any difference to you or not.

Edit - I agree though, that you don't have to out yourself to call them out on their prejudicial statements.

[JenniferR771]

You could say, "My cousin is a crossdresser. He is very macho as a guy, but its amazing! When he wears a dress and gets all done up--nine out of ten guys don't spot him at all!"

[Madilyn A.]

There have been several good points raised in this thread. Personally I think the correct response is what feels right at the time considering the audience. I have both commented with words like "each to their own", and also remained quiet to this and similar topics......BTW, feels nice to be back here.....Madilyn

[Jeannie]

Hi Suzy, I am going to be one that totally agrees with you. The only time I went out away from the my house was on a dress and drive about a year and a half ago. My wonderful wife went with me and I was scared to death the whole time. I live in the deep south along the Gulf of Mexico and crossdressers are not tolerated well at all here. Going out in public dressed may be placing your life in danger so I like you am perfectly fine with my closet and home. I can dress anytime I want there is no one here but me and my wife who is just fine with Jeannie. I would dearly love to go SC conference but Atlanta is just to close to home and I have run into people I know almost every time I go somewhere (in drab). I don't take humiliation well at all and once word spreads, and it usually does and I don't care anyone says, the humiliation will not stop. Sometimes it is not as easy as some people think it is and in "my opinion" for people to tell you that it's ok just go do it do not fully understand the the total situation. I am doing this the way I want to do it and my suggestion (although not called for) is to do they way you want to do it. Hugs from Jeannie!!!

[bobbimo]

Hi Suzy!
I think the next time your up for being a race Marshal, you should where that sexy outfit you wore for the Vicar. :-). I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that one!
Bobbi

[Tracii G]

Suzy do what you feel is best I will respect that.
Personally I would put those guys lower on my friends list after this.

I'm not one to stand by and watch when people are being degraded for who they are and always speak up but thats just me.

[BillieJoEllen]

About ten days ago I got involved in a similar conversation. The people talking sure were biased toward CD/TS people. I would never bring up my being one with anyone in that group. They were all totally against ladies like us. That's why I appreciate each and everyone of you on this site.

[cindybabe]

I must have too agree with you Suzy,

[Jaymees22]

Suzy, I'm sure I would have done the same thing, at least you can come here and get some comfort in knowing your not alone. Hugs Jaymee

[suzy1]

Having been around professional motorsports and drivers (as well as other professional athletes), I really wonder if your life would be over. Seems that the job you do on the course should be what makes you in the sport, not the underwear you wear.
.


I think its time to paint the complete picture here. [And thanks for the support from some of you girls]

If you watch Motorcycle racing, Moto GP, World Superbikes, or the British superbike Championships then you have seen me!
These races are now broadcast worldwide on T.V. [Eurosport, sky T.V. and so on]

When you see some marshals [usually in orange fireproof overalls] run out on track to help a rider get up and off the track or get the bike off the track during a race I am sometimes one of those Marshals.

Now lets see what would happen if I stood up for 'us girls' and they became aware that I crossdress.
First of all the news that Suzy [not the name I go by as a marshal] wears a dress would spread like wildfire and every marshal in the country [about 350] would know as most of them know me personally.
But hang on, it gets worse.......much worse!

One of the best race commentators on T.V. is Jamie Whitham. He is a Yorkshire man with a wicked sense of humour. Nothing that goes on in the sport gets past him.

So the next race and crash! I bike goes hurtling down the track and yours truly is out there clearing up the bits.
so what does Jamie Whitham say when he sees me on the monitor in the commentators box?..........
"Thats the marshal that dresses up as a women".........now the whole b****y world knows!!!!!
And all my marshal friend wills never look at me in quite the same way again. I will become the sports biggest joke.

I am getting a bit angry here so I had better go now.

[Helen_Highwater]

Suzy,
I hope this doesn't mess with your mind as it were but did you consider that they suspected you? That it was an attempt to provoke a reaction? Not in the sense of outright rebuttal or defense of CD's but to look for those subtle "Tells" as the poker players say, the slight blush of embarrassment, a shift in posture, oh so many ways in which we subliminally react to these situations that says,"Gotch ya".

Or this could be just another of my daft conspiracy theories.

But in defense of leaving the closet. It's a bit like reading the statistics for road deaths in say somewhere like India as using that as an excuse for not going there on holiday or for that matter even leaving the house in the UK. It's all too easy to focus on the negative and end up missing out on wonderful experiences. Having said that I do truly respect your decision. It's as valid as any other, certainly mine.

[ReineD]

But Helen, in defense of Suzy, how on earth could she ever have a good time while out, if she adamantly doesn't want to go out. Seems to me the stress would be high enough to make the outing unpleasant.

Suzy, you have my full support for wanting to stay in. It's your life so it's your call.

[Julie Gaum]

Suzy, fully understand and support your stand under your circumstances, i.e., family and friends would not be accepting so why ruin your life? Not everybody need be a standard bearer. As you know I recently came out after 80+ years but that doesn't make me a hero as older brother is in a hospital up north, and rest of my family have either passed or live far away, and anyways I first came out in the First Edition in 2002 so what do I have to lose? Nothing. As far as being picked on
by some young idiot --- not likely on old ladies. So, other than health issues, I'm free, which is ironic as it's so late in life. You are out in a way when in your friend's mansion.
Always
Julie

[suzy1]

Suzy,
I hope this doesn't mess with your mind .

don't worry, it can't. My mind is way to strong.

There is an undercurrent running here in this thread [and in the forum]. Just what are the motives behind some of the members that promote the 'get out of the closet' so fiercely?
Is it some sort of insecurity in there own lives I wonder?
But I am no psychiatrist so I will leave it you to ponder on.

A happy well balanced girl in a party dress.:dance:

[KristyE]

Suzy, You do what makes you comfortable and happy, thats what all of this xdressing is about.
Love Kristy

[Rogina B]

Last Sunday I was at a race circuit [Brands Hatch] and it was the lunch brake for us marshals, six of us.
So for some reason men that wear dresses came up in the conversation.
After about five minutes of jokes about the ‘weirdoes that dress like a woman’ the conversation moved on.

Will I come out of the closet anytime soon?..................I think not!

"Five minutes" ??? That is what caught my attention and "caused that undercurrent" you feel...Five minute is a lot of time to joke about one subject close to you..A person can make "the point of acceptance" in lot's of social situations,without "outing themselves" nor offending others that "need help in accepting another persons life choices". If they ever figure you out,you may have wished that you took a stand of diversity,that's all.

[Ressie]

What's that song? If you knew Suzy, like I know Suzy, oh, oh, oh what a gal! Men will be boys. It's groupthink time both there and here. Revealing proclivities isn't for me either.

[suzy1]

"Five minutes" ??? That is what caught my attention and "caused that undercurrent" you feel...Five minute is a lot of time to joke about one subject close to you..A person can make "the point of acceptance" in lot's of social situations,without "outing themselves" nor offending others that "need help in accepting another persons life choices". If they ever figure you out,you may have wished that you took a stand of diversity,that's all.

First, five minutes was a figure of speech.
Second, they will not 'find me out because I am not that stupid [really!]
Three, if you think you can defend a subject like that without possibly 'outing yourself' then you don't know much about the average group of 'blokes' on a marshals post.
Four, about 'others needing help in being accepted' sorry but your on your own there. I am only thinking of No 1 here. Condemn me for that if you wish.



What's that song? [I]If you knew Suzy, like I know Suzy, oh, oh, oh what a gal!r.

To know her is to love her.:heehee:

[Helen_Highwater]

Suzy,
Let me reiterate, I to support your decision. We're all different and long may it be so. I've made no bones about being me in the closet. I don't want friends, work colleagues, family to know. That's why when I do venture out it's as far away as possible from home. So I draw a distinction between being out and going out. Although it may seem to be a contradiction or paradox, I keep my going out private except to those here. I try to be as anonymous as is possible. Personal safety is high on my agenda when I do venture forth and so far so good. If I look back over the past 10 years, I've encountered more yobbish behavior in male mode than ever in fem.
I hope when writing about experiences enfem and in the public domain I don't put pressure on anyone to do the same if it's not for them. Having said that there are many threads here of gals who want to take that step and are looking for reassurance and support and as some who's a relatively inexperienced newcomer, still an apprentice in the art, it's for them I write.
I know you will be true to yourself and I applaud you for that.