An SO and struggling with where my boundaries are

[KatieOnTheKeys (GG)]

Hey. So I'm a wife of a cder, with my own CDing tendencies, but I really struggling as to where my boundaries are in relation to him CDing outside the house. We are both very religious Christians (we try to live by Gods word as much as a fallen human can) and in the I'm not sure what is right in Gods eyes about presenting as a different gender. So far dh has stated he doesn't see himself as female, but feels more comfortable in female style clothes. Recently though he mentioned wanting to go completely female (makeup hair etc) and i can't say I'm comfortable at all about it. I'm not sure if it's because of my beliefs or because he's previously said he's not interested in being female. I've asked some Christian friends (not saying it was dh, but a close friend) and their response was that its between him and God unless he is deceiving others by presenting himself enfemme but doesn't identify as female. We are both very happy in our religion,so please, no arguement or discussing on that. I'm really wanting some insight into the topic of presenting as female outside the house while identifying as male.

[S. Lisa Smith]

I identify as a male. Something inside of me wants to be "one of the girls". I love female companionship. I am not interested in men. I love going out dressed. It sounds like you husband may feel the same or a similar way. I have been married for 38 years to a woman who, while she knows about me, does not wish to see me dressed. We have a happy marriage and a good life. I wish that for you and your husband and hope that this gives you some insight into presenting as a female while identifying as male.

[Leann68]

I would not be concerned about you DH feeling more comfortable im female clothes, I too feel that way. Due to my Job and social standing I am not able to enjoy dressing when in my area. Also I too am a Christan, rember God Love every one. I have been married for over 40 years, my wife knows of my desires, she however does not care to see me dressed.

[Lex321]

I think dressing is about expressing a side of ones self. I am not sure the bible has anything to say about CD-ing, does it? I myself and married w/ 2 kids, and love to cross dress. It is something I do in private, NEVER in front of the kids. My wife sometimes helps me with my makeup. I don't want to go full time. There are many of us on the board that don't want to go full time. I am sure you love your husband very much and as long as that continues to be the case I am sure you will work this out.

One note of advise. If you try and make him stop and never do it, it will either kill him inside or he will hide it front you. Neither of those I am sure you want. There have been many discussions on this forum about stopping. Everyone comes back to it.

[cdmcconnell84]

Hi Katie,

I wanted to throw my own two cents in since I've grown up my whole life in the church (Lutheran mostly, but recently because my girlfriend is a Methodist and we've traveled a good bit I've spent plenty of time in other Protestant services), and I've thought *a lot* about gender expression as well since I've been exploring my transgender "ness" for about a decade now.

The main point I would put out there is that as much as people like to very loudly proclaim that they know what the Bible says, and it says "X" (insert whatever opinion you've ever heard), in my own opinion any teaching that tries as the Bible does to be a broadly universal guide must necessarily lose the sort of detail that can speak to every individual in every circumstance through every country that's ever existed in the last two thousand years. So there's going to have to be some interpretation, and you just have to do the best you can.

So then, my own interpretation is this: the story of Adam and Eve is primarily a story that tells us that humans crave companionship. We crave someone to share the joys and difficulties of our lives with. But personally I don't think that it tells us that only one man and one woman are meant to be together and even what it means to "be a man" or "be a woman"; (let's not even get started on how the idea we have of a simple man/woman gender binary scientifically breaks down in the face of modern science where we know that a very few people even have indistinct genetalia and XXY chromosomes!). Anyway, in different places and different times throughout history different societies have had different definitions of man and woman and *certainly* different norms for what clothing they've worn! Noble *men* in many eras have worn stockings and "skirts" (kilts, robes, etc). Adam and Eve also tell us that a partner can bring us balance, but it doesn't say what that balance is explicitly, it just tells us that a good partner can fill in the holes (like Adams rib) that we have in our lives. Maybe they bring an important skill, or an important skill set to that table.

So a man wearing a skirt then I don't think can be *inherently* wrong. I mean, Jesus himself wore garments that might strike some as oddly effeminate if he shaved his beard and wore them down main street today! Buuuut... I will on the other hand admit that we do live in a particular time and place that *does* have norms of what it means to be a man and a woman and whether it *should* cause a fuss or not for a man to wear a skirt, it often does. Given that, it may be perfectly reasonable for your husband to try and restrict his CDing in a way that does not offend others (family and such - children are often cited as not needing the confusion of parents breaking gender norms in their homes). That is, I personally can see no way in which "CDing" for a modern American male could possibly be inherently sinful, but causing others discomfort through it might not be "loving your neighbor", and it would be arrogant I think to insist on doing so if you *know* it will bother others.

So that's my ramble, I'd love to know if you find any of my thoughts helpful... Take care,
Caleigh

[Rachael Leigh]

Welcome Katie, I too have been fighting my desire to crossdress for many many years. I too am a born again believer and this is no doubt a struggle I fight with my faith a lot. I've done a lot of study on it and have yet to find clear answers. I know that God loves us and we need to remember that above all else. My wife is not happy at all about my dressing and she had known for a long time. I tried to let go of it for many years but it was always there. I know everyone struggles with something in their life their whole life it's just this is just so very different. It's taboo in our churches today and many clergy just don't know how to deal with it. I've had counseling and all that but still I find myself going back. So for now I'm at a point where this is just my burden to bare. At some point I may let it go but for now I just do my best to stay focused on where God wants me and do my best in life. God too has blessed me and my family so much how can I not give Him praise no matter my situation. I pray for the best in yours as well.

[Rachelakld]

And for my two cents (as a CDer with wife and 4 kids who have seen and helped me dress and are very supportive), have you ever seen a girl in T-shirt, jeans with short hair - actually yesterday I asked my daughter about her friends BF, turns out it was her mum driving, but looking very manly (but it's OK for women to take on a stronger sex look).

For me, god gave us diversity and permission with free will.
With boundaries, things are either pushed underground and the CDers life becomes a lie, or a life is stifled and spiritually suffocated.
I doubt god would want life's precious gift to be wasted.

When something is different, look at the possibilities god has granted us

[GaleWarning]

I would love to see the day when we can choose to wear whatever we like. God doesn't care about it; He looks inside us, not at us.
Enjoy life and worry about the things that really matter.

[Beverley Sims]

Katie,
It is something you may have to accept, although slowly would be better.
Deep rooted upbringing and moral attitudes play a big part in our acceptance of anything.
I had trouble as my wife was brought up to think sex was something you participated in to procreate.
Nothing else! It takes a long time to change those views and it has to be done with consideration.
No pushing, or shoving just love and patience.
Over time you will both have to widen your boundaries and your husband will have to understand that.
Yes he may want to go out dressed and if he looks convincing all the better.
The fears are usually doing it around your home town.
Drive twenty miles away and go window shopping at dusk when everyone is going home.

Even do window shopping with him in drab and see how it goes.
I agree he may not want to be female and you want your man but there is a middle road to go down and you both have to get used to how you were brought up and find the correct approach to change. There is nothing immoral or bad in what you do, it is just that society is still slowly accepting people like us.
Above all work at it and stay together.
Never forget why you got married in the first place. :)

[Jillian Faith]

Hi Katie I try to make it a point not to discuss religion or politics with anyone. That said I was raised in a very religious home. I Identify as male but have a feminine side that I love to explore, sometimes I do venture out in public. I'm happily married with 2 grown daughters and am not interested in men just experiencing life as a mature women on occasion. In don't believe I am doing anything wrong in God's eyes as he is the one who created me with these desires.

I am interested in your comment about your own CDing tendencies, can you elaborate?

[Lynn Marie]

I like to keep things simple. "God is love". "Judge not ".

[Marcelle]

Hi Katie,

Won't discuss religion (lapsed Catholic here). Regarding your question on presenting female while identifying male pretty well sums me up. I have only recently come out to my wife of 24 years and she has been very supportive of all aspects of my journey including presenting female in public.

For me, I have no desire to have people see me for more than what I am a man who is dressed as a woman. One look at my avatar will immediately identify me as male. So I hold no illusion I am passing. For me it is the feeling I get when I am dressed and present in public as female. While I am still struggling with the stares from others, I do feel more natural dressed as a woman than a man. However, I still identify as male both in private and public life.

Now this recent rush to present female could just be an artefact of my unhindered ability to express myself as I please and as time moves forward I may present publically less and less. However, it is plausible that I could present more as time moves forward. My therapist has indicated that right now my male side and female side are looking for balance and where that balance lies, will depend. Right now it is about 20% female and 80% male.

Hope this helps

Hugs

Isha

[adrienner99]

I never saw crossdessing mentioned in the ten commandments. Going out dressed is a powerful urge we all have. It does not mean we want to be female...and I don't believe God cares. You have been wonderfully supportive of him over a mysterious, unusual issue. Most wives don't have to deal with crossdressing...most men don't either. I don't think dressing is a choice. It's who some of us are....Let him be who he is.

[CDPheobe]

Katie, my wife and I are christian also. My wife was unsure about me in makeup and the whole nine yards. I told her the same thing. I love dressing but as for becoming a woman, NO! I'm very comfy with being male but LOVE dressing way more than being in men's clothes. I can't even put my finger on it as to why. But around home I'm in spandex pants and top. Feel free to inbox me. My wife can help also to cope with feelings. But I can safely speak for your SO and say let your worries go. Let your SO be himself dressed up. Support him. You won't be dissapointed. Look forward to hearing from you :)

[mikiSJ]

The New Testament was written between 1900 and 1700 years ago and was written for the time. Live your lives as you see fits within your beliefs and marriage.

[DonnaT]

Many of us identify as male while presenting as female when we go out. Some of us don't try to hide the fact that we are male.

I've been out in a skirt with and without the wig and makeup.

My wife of 38 yrs has been out with me when I was crossdressed, but only if I present fully female.

[Violet-13]

I'm a Christian my self. To me God gave us free will for a reason, I really don't think he will care if your husband go's out as a woman or a male. God just seams to want us to be happy and spread his word, at least that's what I think the bible is teaching us.
But if it's a matter of your own comfort, I really think you should talk to him and express your own thought's and feelings

[melanie206]

I am not a spiritual person but I do try to follow Jesus' teachings. He didn't have much to say about gender issues. Anyway, I am confused about the meaning, as used in this thread, of "identifying as a male". To me it sounds like a huge disconnect when on one hand a person has a strong desire to dress as a female but somehow needs to say "but I'm still male". Let the waters flow. We are proof that the M-F binary is false.

[Joanne f]

Think of it in a different way , if you go out just dressed in female clothes there is the possibility of upsetting or making other people feel uncomfortable so the more you look like a female the less likely this is to happen so in doing that you are thinking of other people which I am sure is a good thing to do , the intention is not to deceive people for any malicious purpose but to just blend in so that everyone feels happy , it is like an actor dressed for a special role not dressed to deceive but dressed so that they will be accepted as that part and then when they change back they are the person that they were before the role play , the actor is happy if they have pulled it of and the audience is happy because they saw the actor just how they expected to see them .

[franlee]

I think and have satisfied my own situation in life and religious conviction with the fact that I am not tying to use CDing to commit any transgressions to evade my responsibility as a man or again anyone for sinful reasons. I stay within the boundaries of my marriage weather I'm dressed or not so that is no problem. What you and your wife enjoy together is the whole reason we are given pleasure from being committed and faithful. In looking back over 42 plus years I can honestly say that my dressing never caused me to transgress outside of my marriages. Just please when you set any boundary be sure it is positive and enforceable by all concerned.

[Lori Kurtz]

I think a very important factor in deciding what is right is to evaluate what his desire to be en femme outside the house is all about. For me, crossdressing was a sexual experience. It took some of my sexual energies away from my wife, and that was dishonest and hurtful (even though it didn't involve my actually having sex with other people). But for some CDers, the dressing up has a different kind of meaning, which might not be any kind of problem at all. So the question is, what, in your SO's mind, is his CDing all about? What does it mean for him, and what does he get out of it?
Thank you, by the way, for being so loving toward him and for trying so hard to find the right way to deal with your life with him.

[KatieOnTheKeys (GG)]

Gah, sorry for not replying. Only just found out how to get emails about replies :/
I think I was misunderstood partially, I'm totally ok wi him dressing at home and accept that as part of him (I see it as nO different to me wearing trackies etc).
But reading through and thinking about it has made me come to the decision that him wearing what he wears at home when we are out would be ok, but I still don't think being completely made up would be, as he doesn't feel female and so it's 'lying/deceiving'. Please don't take any offence to that opinion, I am not judging others, just presenting my thoughts at this time :)
People on this forum are amazing and supportive, thank you all <3

[Lorileah]

But reading through and thinking about it has made me come to the decision that him wearing what he wears at home when we are out would be ok, but I still don't think being completely made up would be, as he doesn't feel female and so it's 'lying/deceiving'. Please don't take any offence to that opinion, I am not judging others, just presenting my thoughts at this time :)

Actually, why would that be lying.deceiving? He would be a man wearing makeup. It was done for hundreds of years (Egyptian pharaohs, French kings, American presidents). The idea of make up being for women only is fairly new. Rock stars do it now. Metrosexual males do it. What would be wrong with a man in a dress wanting to look "pretty"? So unless he was out and telling everyone he was a woman, the make up isn't that big a deal as far as deception. I would think he would be MORE comfortable in make up while dressed

[Beverley Sims]

Katie,
He needs to be made up when out as he exposes himself to ridicule otherwise.
It is not a good idea to go out half dressed. it is all or nothing.
I consider a half hearted attempt at dressing to be not trying or in your case a misguided idea.
I hope you can see why he needs to be completely dressed and I think you need time to get used to it before he goes out.
There are a lot of variations about what is correct in god's eyes and it does need careful consideration.
Please keep commenting we would all like to help you in your time of crisis.

[Brenda Freeman]

I started crossdresssing fully make up and wig when I truned 50 same time I came out to my wife. I had not dressed up much prior to that but loved the thought. When I turned 50 (2005) I was having panic attacks shortness of breath and felt at times like I couldnt catch my breath and I was having strong urges to explore CDing. I talked to my Dr. about everything except the CD urges and he put me on a medication to calm me. I did visit a crossdressing group and a knowlegeable lady who offered help with wigs and things. I told my wife because I was planning to go to a TG event overnight and I did not want to lie, she was scared at first as she new nothing about crossdressing and where it might lead. But over a brief time we worked out our comfort levels and it has worked out great. We both agree we do not want our children, families and friends to know. I can dress up at home go out with my TG friends (I rarely do this) but do go to an annual TG event where I have met friends with similar stories. I do not take the medication anymore and I am in good health. I think this might sound strange but Crossdressing keeps me healthy and happy. If you have something you do that makes you happy and feel good and you look forward to doing, that is the best way I can describe my experience crossdressing. I think my crossdressing helps me appreciate more the struggles others have in life and I have much empathy and can relate to the fears and misunderstanding people can have toward others.

[Gillian Gigs]

It is the thoughts and intents of our hearts, motives, that are of importance. Whatever both of you do in the privacy of your own home is your business, as long as you both agreement to it. Think of it this way, when you are dead, what can you take with you into the next life? Your can't take money, or your wardrobe, only what is found within your soul. So, what is found within your soul, your character, thats what. Don't get hung up in small issues, look at the bigger picture, and work at becoming people of good character. The best character example in the bible was all found in one man...guess who, I will leave you to read on.

[KatieOnTheKeys (GG)]

It's not the actual make up lorileah, it's the thing that dressed in female clothing, while wearing makeup, possible a feminine hair do and high heals would make him look female (I think he could easily pass in public ) and because he doesn't see himself as female, I feel that would be a deception :/ if he wanted to transition, or even just saw himself as female when dressed, I'd be completely fine with him going the hog... Does that make sense?

[Lorileah]

I get what you are saying however the point was made after my post that by going out without makeup or wig, he would actually be more noticeable, Just because he doesn't see himself as a woman doesn't mean he can't "blend" a little better. But it depends on his mindset. He would be a huge target and would get a lot of comments (some positive I am sure but most negative). With minimal make up, people will be more willing to "ignore" him....if he is blatant man in dress...they will feel more free to say things

[S. Lisa Smith]

It's not the actual make up lorileah, it's the thing that dressed in female clothing, while wearing makeup, possible a feminine hair do and high heals would make him look female (I think he could easily pass in public ) and because he doesn't see himself as female, I feel that would be a deception :/ if he wanted to transition, or even just saw himself as female when dressed, I'd be completely fine with him going the hog... Does that make sense?
I guess it is from your point of view. I don't see myself as female, as in I don't think I am a woman born in the wrong body, I do see myself as presenting as female. I love all the female "things" shopping while dressed, enjoying the company of females and being seen as one. In my mind, I am not deceiving anyone in that if someone asked me if I were male, I'd tell them I was. If someone glances at me and they think, "what a tall woman (or what an ugly woman or whatever)" they are making an assumption. I don't feel that I am deceiving them. Perhaps it is because I am playing a role and don't seek to profit at someone else's expense I personally don't think I'm deceiving anyone.