Of glass ceilings

[Kathryn Martin]

Of glass ceilings……


In a recent thread I referred to the need of women with a transsexual history and transitioning women to “present beyond reproach”. Many of you have interpreted this as meaning “perfect” in presentation. Nothing could be further from my intended point.



We live in a world today in which women are judged constantly by their appearance. This even more so in a professional environment. Most environments have their own appearance norms, it’s called a dress code. If you are a carpenter working on job sites your dress mode is different from an office environment. If you work as a nurse, it will be different than as a store clerk. But evey of the modern working and social environments raises appearance expectations. And that is still particularly true for women but also for men. The expectations are applied to every woman or man. We are no exception.



Most of us are not stealth. You and I live in communities in which we were known before transition and many of us work in jobs we had before and now have after transition. Consequently, our history is known, and often when we transition we admit by the very act to have deceived those that work with us, and those that we socialize with. Because of it, many of us begin with somewhat of a credibility deficit, that goes like this: Because I would never have thought that you could be a woman/gender variant/gender outlaw I do not believe that you are. Our social and professional circles need to be convinced, that what we claim and say is in fact the truth. They are whether we are told or not waiting for a train-wreck to happen even if to validate their own feelings that they never would have judged us to be what we claim.



I have a friend, Fred Connors, who is also my most fabulous hairdresser. He has his own TV show (a makeover show) and regularly appears on the Marilyn Dennis show. (Candians would know what that is). He is very involved in his community and among others things runs programs for inner city kids and also young transsexuals to help with their appearance and presentation. With most older transitioners (and he has a few) he despairs sometimes mainly because they “don’t put everything into transition that they could”. Speaking about another friend of mine who recently transitioned, he said: “if you are a woman then be a goddamn woman”.



This is why I have used the phrase beyond reproach, and please note NOT “Perfect”. If your appearance becomes a distraction from who you are (a woman/gender variant/gender outlaw) and a distraction from your social grace and professional competence then you are not beyond reproach and ultimately you are the one who will lose out not society at large. In professional context women face the glass ceiling all of the time, don’t create another one for yourself. Transition is hard enough.

[Jorja]

While I do not always agree with Kathryn and her line of thinking on some topics, she is 100% correct on this one. And I love her friends line, “if you are a woman then be a goddamn woman”.

[kimdl93]

My wife is a professional woman, a Senior VP, and honestly, she realizes that presentation is important. She does her best, which is very, very good and counsels her subordinates to get their act together as well.

[Angela Campbell]

As a trained engineer I have always found you get out of something what you put in. That and the 6 "P"s

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

[sandra-leigh]

I would subdivide a bit further: there are people who would be "surprised" to find out that your gender was not as originally learned, and there are people for whom it may be no surprise but might still have trouble adapting from "doesn't really seem to fit in with male" over to "is female".

The "surprised" category for me has so far consisted only of my mother and my (now ex-) boss. Other people have treated it as something well within their conception of what I might be likely to do, even if it wasn't exactly what they had expected. Or they did the mental "Oh, of course!", having known that something was unusual about me but not quite having been able to decide what.

My professional circles outside of my workplace: very few of them have met me in person, or even seen pictures of me (you really have to know what you are looking for in order to find a picture of me through a search engine.) But my legal name has rather gotten around, and it is distinctly a male name. The people who know my name might feel "deceived". And some of them might refuse to believe, possibly claiming that I "don't write like a woman". But my dressing any particular way isn't going to have much effect on that :sad:

[Barbara Ella]

No one can be perfect, so accept that as a given. Beyond reproach is the key phrase, and is an excellent one to live by regardless of one's situation. For someone in transition it is even more important. There are two lines here that capture something everyone can do if they really desire.

You only get out what you are willing to put in. - Over thirty years of educating Engineers backs this up.

If you are going to be a woman, then be a goddamn woman. -got to love this philosophy.

Barbara

[thechic]

Loved you comment and I had to say I agree with you Kathryn

I'm only an refrigeration engineer, but I do the best I can at work, my makeup and hair are always perfect,always perfect nails and attempt to act like a woman in all situations even when under great stress ,I change my overalls daily unlike all the other engineers,I don't let anybody see me any other way , and it does pay off. Work colleges and customers always respect me and ask for me by name, so you do get a lot out if put a bit of extra in.

[MatildaJ.]

Speaking about another friend of mine who recently transitioned, he said: “if you are a woman then be a goddamn woman”.

But conversely: if you are a gender outlaw, then be a gender outlaw, right?


This is why I have used the phrase beyond reproach, and please note NOT “Perfect”. If your appearance becomes a distraction from who you are (a woman/gender variant/gender outlaw) and a distraction from your social grace and professional competence then you are not beyond reproach.

I'm surprised that you addressed those who identify as "gender outlaws" or gender variant in this post. Wouldn't someone who was a gender outlaw prefer to shake things up, to undermine people's stereotyped understanding of gender, rather than to be "beyond reproach"?

The women who made it possible for women to start wearing pants in our culture (late 19th & early 20th century) were certainly reproached by their contemporaries as radicals and unwomanly. That's how cultural change happens, and I assume that people identifying as "gender outlaws" (or gender variant) would want to bring about some cultural change, some loosening of our rigid gender norms.

Also note that genetic women are reproached all the time for their choices, whether for showing too much cleavage or looking uptight, whether for prioritizing their family or for prioritizing their career. Being a goddamn woman, in my opinion, means accepting that people are going to judge you, taking that into consideration, but still living your life according to your own judgment in the end.

[Chickhe]

It is a valid point to make. Have you ever seen someone who is obviously unskilled who claims they are going to make something big of themselves? ...for example, a someone working an unskilled job, who surfs the web, has bad habits such as smoking or drinking in excess...who says someday I'll be the president of the company... you walk away thinking, they are living in a fantasy. But, you can have someone in the same job doing the best they can, forward thinking, teaching others, doing what needs to get done, no complaints, who is constantly learning and improving...they won't tell you they will be president, instead they just respect the president and take small steps to have the right skills.

I would say its the same for a TG person. If you appear to do a 1/2 job, people won't take you seriously. If you give it your all and don't do perfect people will still respect you and help you. A lot in life, I think is not so much what you do, its how you do it. Its attitude, believing in yourself and doing the things to support that. ...I think this is where many people have the problem, its learning to believe in yourself, something that's pretty hard when you lived most of your life in a different way.

[Kathryn Martin]

JessM,

If I showed up in Court in yoga pants and a t shirt I would be in trouble. If a carpenter showed up at the job site in miniskirt and heels she would be in trouble.

I prefer to be both professionally appropriately dressed and to be attractive. And I agree being a woman means accepting that we are judged all of the time on much more than just clothing, but still live our life according to our own judgement.

Be whomever you are, and put every effort into being that. That was my point. In doing so you are beyond reproach.

I also chose my battles carefully, like you do as well. Loss of credibility because I don't give a damn what people think and how I could be judged is not the battle that would have helped me in transition.

[MatildaJ.]

I absolutely agree that it's useful to consider people's likely assessments, rather than living in a fantasy world.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

A gender outlaw, a woman and a man walk into a bar.

They were all wearing.......

oh forget it

[Michelle.M]

I'm surprised that you addressed those who identify as "gender outlaws" or gender variant in this post. Wouldn't someone who was a gender outlaw prefer to shake things up, to undermine people's stereotyped understanding of gender, rather than to be "beyond reproach"?

That's an excellent point! And I think you're right. While most of us who transition end up presenting as a known value in the gender binary (as Kathryn's friend said: “if you are a woman then be a goddamn woman”), not all of us do.

If I understand Kathryn's post correctly, it's about identifying your target and going after it completely, thus minimizing barriers to being gendered as a woman (or man, for FtM transitioners).


If your appearance becomes a distraction from who you are (a woman/gender variant/gender outlaw) and a distraction from your social grace and professional competence then you are not beyond reproach and ultimately you are the one who will lose out not society at large.

I'd venture to say that this advice, as good as it is, only applies to those who transition in the context of a known value in the gender binary.

"Gender variant" and "gender outlaw" are the most self-defined identities of all, and as such how can anyone identify a norm for their presentation? Kinda hard for me to envision anyone having an appearance that is a distraction from gender variant or gender outlaw.


Also note that genetic women are reproached all the time for their choices, whether for showing too much cleavage or looking uptight, whether for prioritizing their family or for prioritizing their career.

And Kathryn did make that point in her OP.


If I showed up in Court in yoga pants and a t shirt I would be in trouble. If a carpenter showed up at the job site in miniskirt and heels she would be in trouble.

Yes, but these are professional or situational norms, not gender norms. I wouldn't wear a bikini to church, nor would I wear a dress and heels to the beach. In the appropriate places I would wear these things and not be judged, but if I wore a swimsuit to church I'd be judged for being a woman who makes inappropriate choices, but still, a woman.

[MatildaJ.]

I guess the way I see it is I live my life so as to be beyond my own reproach, rather than to beyond any reproach by some idiot out in the world.

[sandra-leigh]

I guess I still don't know what "beyond reproach" is supposed to indicate here.

My spouse, before she heads to work, puts on a bit of blush in powder form, and lipstick. No mascara, no eye-shadow, no lip pencil, no whatever. So then for me to be beyond reproach, is lipstick enough? lipstick and blush like she uses? Or do I need to go for the eyeshadow and mascara? Assuming a white-color workplace ?

When late fall weather kicks in quickly, and daytime highs start going from +10C to -10C in less than a week, my spouse often throws on old (but not ragged) jeans and goes to work that way. At least until she gets more acclimatized to the weather, in which case she will start putting dresses and skirts back into her lineup. So old female jeans: beyond reproach? How about these mid-brown slacks that are kinda difficult to tell apart from men's equivalents -- beyond reproach because they are not uncommon for women, or within reproach because it because they start highlighting my remaining male features by not being distinctly feminine? So then if I make the slacks a color that men don't typically wear, such as a pale yellow? Bright purple?

[Kathryn Martin]

Michelle, the situational norms are what get many into such hot water. I would rather be criticized for my professional performance then have my professional performance diminished by a reproachable appearance.

Jess, while there is a truth to what you say, the very concept of "reproach" has a societal component to it. I like being complimented like any other woman, so being attractive when I go out for work or pleasure is important to me. And that has helped me in being all that I can be.

[bas1985]

I agree: in the TS italian world sometimes I feel that some (not all!) who are not able to "pass" (or do not want to take the effort to pass) make the assumption that they want be "gender outlaw", but it's a choice that has consequences, of course. Society is not ready for "gender outlaws". I have seen that the majority of successful transitions is done by women who try most to adhere to the gender binary, without reproach from the other cis-people. That's is my impression of course, and my idea of transitioning, but I don't want to criticize people who do not think in the same way.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I tend to agree with Kathryn..
if you want to be gendered properly, you must conform to some societal standards...

but I would also say sometimes it can be taken to far...our own personal feelings about appearance don't necessarily tie to any standards but our own
for example, I know Kathryn at one point you commented about if you saw another woman over 50 with long hair you'd scream...i'm 51...I have long hair....if I may say so it takes 10 years off my appearance and looks great on me...(obviously I remembered that comment!! LOL)..

There is an easy to see bright line somewhere..bikinis at work for example... but the gray area is much bigger...

For us as transsexuals (as opposed to gender outlaw/queer) that transition to live a female role, we are often judged differently line than gg's

...and although I like the attitude that Jess proposes, its an unrealistic attitude for a transsexual woman unless she wants to either be misgendered more often or is willing to be marginalized even further than most of us are already...its not fair, but its true...

in its purest forum all Kathryn is saying is that actions have consequences

....as it relates to the action of putting your look together 24/7, there is no special carve out for us because we got a crappy gender lottery ticket that makes it much harder for us (usually)
I also can't resist to add that its doubly difficult for us because we are making this stuff up at 30, 40 , 50 or even older... we don't have the lifetime experience that other women have and some of what we do is necessarily like cramming for a test as we try to "become" over a very short period of time.. so whatever you do, don't be hard on yourself..

[Marleena]

I agree too. We all know how important first impressions are in social processing.

[Kathryn Martin]

...but I would also say sometimes it can be taken to far...our own personal feelings about appearance don't necessarily tie to any standards but our own
for example, I know Kathryn at one point you commented about if you saw another woman over 50 with long hair you'd scream...i'm 51...I have long hair....if I may say so it takes 10 years off my appearance and looks great on me...(obviously I remembered that comment!! LOL)..

I guess you got me with that one. I am not opposed to long hair but it is so stereotypical that women who transition tend to have long hair (and often not properly cared for unfortunately) and that is what makes me scream, some times. What I am writing about here is really motivated more by my fervent hope that those that transition be successful in doing so, and that they be recognized for who they are. Not only does everyone deserve it from their social circles but most of all you all deserve it from yourselves to do everything you can. Because we are all worth it....

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I figured that... trust me, when my hair gets down to about knee length I start thinking it needs a trim...

[SandraAbsent]

I try to live my life as "stealthy" as I can. I am non-op for medical reasons, but I have put a lot of time into my presentation. The thing that I have noticed is that it is more than your physical presentation that counts. I have invested so much time to undo things like learned male postures (or over exaggerated female postures), voice, conversation skills, ect. The Sandra you see now vs. two years ago when I first crossed the "full-time" bridge is the result of a very dedicated evolution of learning to be a better woman. So I agree with the OP 100%. I think for myself and possibly others though, its a progressive realization and evolution. When we first step out we have no idea what will work and what wont, certainly their others that are incapable seeing the need for presentation, and certainly there are some that just plain don't care. This is pretty consistent with people in general though isnt it?

[sandra-leigh]

I am one of the long-haired over 50's :) My hair is very fine, not much thicker than vellis hair. It is near the lower boundary of where individual hairs can be seen directly instead of just by noting that they block the light. So my hair has no body. :sad: When cut short, the result is a distinctly male look, relenting only if it is cut very straight across at the back, in a style that is not flattering (observe my mother.) So for me, short hair would be a "reproachable" appearance.

[Leah Lynn]

Kathryn, I'm just a month into hrt, hoping to take this journey to full fruition. I think you are 100% spot on.


Hugs,
Leah