Doing things like a "woman"

[Ayame]

A lot of people aspire to do things such as walk like a woman, look like a woman etc but what I wonder is what exactly are you trying to do? A lot of people act as if women are these hyper-feminine clones that all act the same and what a lot of the girls on this site are emulating is not women, but rather models and actresses in hyper-feminine roles. When I take the train in the morning I do not see women dressed hyper-feminine, hell most of them arent even wearing skirts, heels, or dresses, and I do not see most of them walking like they are walking a catwalk. This is not to shun doing things super-feminine (I am an overly feminine person) but more or less to point out that these traits arent things that most women do all the time. While some women are really feminine, there are also lots of masculine women, and lots of women in between. People have all sorts of unique characteristics and I have known lots of women with many different ways of walking. I also see this in terms of appearance, people will act like their shoulders are too masculine (I was guilty of this myself when I was younger), or their hips too narrow, or their breasts too small; news flash some women have narrow hips, some have small breasts, some women are tall, some have big feet, and some have wide shoulders. What I am trying to get at is that people come in all shapes, sizes, and personalities and that all of those should be valued because when you claim that your feet are too big you are also insulting genetic women with big feet making them feel as if there is something wrong with them when there isnt.

[rita63]

Lately when I have been out dressed I have found I am not any different a person. I find people treating me as a woman really doesn't hit me till later. As to learning to behave properly (accepting that invite to join the ladies in the washroom) is something that goes right by me. I have lot to learn about being the opposite sex but I will always still be me.
My walk has always drawn comments as distinctive (I think they are being polite), weak ankles and a high arch. At least at my age I can get away with just being who I am, it must be harder for young people. I wish them luck.

hugs rita

[Kate Simmons]

Yeah, there does tend to be a "Stepford wives" type of mentality here sometimes Hon. Most women don't want to put on a pedastal anyway. They just want to be loved and appreciated for who they are as a person. That is really what we need to emulate, then we may be able to say we truly feel like a woman. ;):)

[Beverley Sims]

I make appearances, and check and chip the obvious man spots off.
Eventually I refine my appearance.

[AllieSF]

I think I understand where you are coming from. I discovered that I like to dress as a woman and go out into the real world dressed that way, meet new people, engage them in conversation and have fun. I have been doing that quite successfully for a few years now. So, when I dress up, I want to emulate styles and mannerisms that I like and try to make them work for me. One of those things is to have a figure that I like looking at in the mirror, a figure that is almost balanced from shoulders to hips including a somewhat hour glass figure. Since I have no hips, no butt, broader shoulders and chest area for a man of my actually petite size, I use shape wear made for women and some made for men who want to create a woman's figure.

I also want to be perceived from a distance and hopefully closer up to be a woman or almost one. So, I have learned to take smaller steps, keep my arms close to my body when walking, sit properly as a woman would do, raise the voice to be closer to that of a woman's and avoid obviously male mannerisms, like picking my nose, burping and farting in public, raising my voice more than necessary into a falsetto or talking loudly as some males tend to do, and all those other little mannerisms that help to distinguish between male and female.

Now, I do not try to be overly feminine with all that like a much higher voice, weak or limp wrists, super swaying of the hips, always walking like a runway model with one foot so carefully placed in front of the other. It helps me internally as I see myself dressed and acting that way and have to believe that it also helps me when interacting with others while out. Where I agree with you is that being over the top in these things actually detracts from the image that I am trying to see and maybe the image that they are trying to portray.

Now each of us may want different results, emotional, reaction from others, looks, whatever when dressed. However, to say that because we want to look better as a woman, someone that we are not, and MtF CD's are definitely not females, we are insulting genetic women, in my opinion, is completely wrong. I would say that by trying to emulate the opposite gender we are saying that we like what we see, and that is a compliment. Because we do not want to expose our beer bellies, our broad shoulders, hairy arms and whatever else that can highlight our maleness is not bad. We may not like our big feet, or small hips, but we do not automatically degrade a GG by doing that. Why not say that just by trying to wear their clothes and look like them, we are also insulting them? To help me better understand your point of view here, could you please explain why it should be considered insulting to women? Maybe I am missing something.

I think that most of us MtF CD's here do realize that everyone, male and female, come in all shapes and sizes and features. That does not mean that it is bad or wrong to pick out the features and looks that we like and try to create them for ourselves.

[Karren H]

All you have to do is fall within one standard deviation of the average female and people don't give you a second glance.... dropping the most male visual ques is the hardest....

[Ayame]

Now each of us may want different results, emotional, reaction from others, looks, whatever when dressed. However, to say that because we want to look better as a woman, someone that we are not, and MtF CD's are definitely not females, we are insulting genetic women, in my opinion, is completely wrong. I would say that by trying to emulate the opposite gender we are saying that we like what we see, and that is a compliment. Because we do not want to expose our beer bellies, our broad shoulders, hairy arms and whatever else that can highlight our maleness is not bad. We may not like our big feet, or small hips, but we do not automatically degrade a GG by doing that. Why not say that just by trying to wear their clothes and look like them, we are also insulting them? To help me better understand your point of view here, could you please explain why it should be considered insulting to women? Maybe I am missing something.

I think that most of us MtF CD's here do realize that everyone, male and female, come in all shapes and sizes and features. That does not mean that it is bad or wrong to pick out the features and looks that we like and try to create them for ourselves.

I am not getting at altering a shape or dressing up as insulting. I do not look at cross dressing as insulting. I was saying when people openly chant things like big feet, or big noses are manly. Those are things that can make people feel bad about themselves when there is no real problem and they are not manly features since many women also have those features. I do not see anything wrong with wanting to alter your appearance, I was more or less saying that people shouldn't automatically jump on the vocally shunning bodies bandwagon by deeming anything a hyper-feminine model doesn't have as masculine, manly, and bad.

[DianeDeBris]

Hi Karren - I find, unfortunately, that even my "standard deviations" are nonstandard! <g>

[AllieSF]

Ayame,

Speaking only about the big noses, I still do not find that it is insulting to a woman if a man who is trying to look like a woman has a big nose and states on this site or to his friends that he would rather not have one. The nose just happens to be one of the first things people see when looking at that face. So, for some the better it looks the better the chance to blend or pass or at least feel better in their female presentation. Because he does not like his big nose does not automatically mean that he dislikes all big noses. But for him, trying to look like a woman, he doesn't like his big nose probably because he feels that it makes him look more manly when he only wants to look femininely. Complaining that they have such large feet, normally means that they cannot find any shoes in the styles that they like that fit their larger feet.

Most the time, I do not notice the nose, but more than once I have seen some very big and very ugly noses, ones that I am glad that I do not have. Am I insulting those people? No, because I do not say anything about it. Some people have good luck in looks and others don't. I don't look down on people who have features that are not so nice. We have what we have and need to learn how to live with that, and not to be so sensitive about it. Makeup was made to enhance certain features and hide other features. Women and some men use it regularly. Men and women also have facial cosmetic surgery when they feel the need to alter some feature to be more to their own liking. Not everyone can do that, but it is a very viable options for those that can. Using your reasoning, can the person who is getting a nose job insulting those that cannot but want to?

A person who has big feet and big noses know where they fit in the overall looks department when out in the real world. many of those people will have or want to have nose procedures top alter the appearance of their noses. Are they insulting the ones that don't want or do that? I don't think so. Some decide to do something about and others don't really care that much about it. Those that feel insulted may already feel insecure about their looks without hearing comments from anyone. I don't read here that people do not like other people's big noses, which would be wrong. But if they say they do not like their own big nose, I accept that they are talking about their own looks and not about every other person out there with a big nose. I also do not believe that they are jumping on any bandwagon. They are just talking about themselves and what they like or do not like, or maybe like and accept in male mode but see as non-complimenting when they want to present in female mode.

The reason that I am replying to your post is that I still do not see any insult, intentional or not. If I read negative comments clearly directed at big nosed people, then I would agree with you.

[Danielle_cder]

bout the only thing that i do as a "woman" is have big boobs

[Lexi Moralas]

Well said ! I have always tried to watch GGs in the wild and emulate them.
I agree beautiful GGs come in all shapes and sized and so do us CDs

[clarisse-tv]

I'm just tryin to be myself . I always had some good choice for matching colors and such things. If I exclusively wet no pants while in femme I can easily wear flat shoes and not be too much sexy or anything. Same for makeup it happened that I wear nude make up ( or just some basic stuff).
At the beginning I was really into that über feminine style but then realized that 90% of the woman were not and this was clearly a road blocker to become passable .
Yesterday I was wearing jean skirt with opaque pantyhose, marie jane flat shoes and a single top ...something I really live to wear to be at ease at home

[Jane G]

Long since stopped trying copy & emulate GG's. Young girls copy there mums to learn how to do so many things. By the time they become women, in their own right they have most thing off pat and don't need to copy any more. They just do their own thing as individual women. I think it's much the same for CD's. A big difference with many is that they may have started later or their mothers may not have encourage there feminine sides to blossom, so it can take a lot longer to feel and move naturally, whilst presenting as a women. After 45+ years of cross-dressing it comes pretty natural, trust me. :daydreaming:

[Ayame]

Ayame,

Speaking only about the big noses, I still do not find that it is insulting to a woman if a man who is trying to look like a woman has a big nose and states on this site or to his friends that he would rather not have one. The nose just happens to be one of the first things people see when looking at that face. So, for some the better it looks the better the chance to blend or pass or at least feel better in their female presentation. Because he does not like his big nose does not automatically mean that he dislikes all big noses. But for him, trying to look like a woman, he doesn't like his big nose probably because he feels that it makes him look more manly when he only wants to look femininely. Complaining that they have such large feet, normally means that they cannot find any shoes in the styles that they like that fit their larger feet.

Most the time, I do not notice the nose, but more than once I have seen some very big and very ugly noses, ones that I am glad that I do not have. Am I insulting those people? No, because I do not say anything about it. Some people have good luck in looks and others don't. I don't look down on people who have features that are not so nice. We have what we have and need to learn how to live with that, and not to be so sensitive about it. Makeup was made to enhance certain features and hide other features. Women and some men use it regularly. Men and women also have facial cosmetic surgery when they feel the need to alter some feature to be more to their own liking. Not everyone can do that, but it is a very viable options for those that can. Using your reasoning, can the person who is getting a nose job insulting those that cannot but want to?

A person who has big feet and big noses know where they fit in the overall looks department when out in the real world. many of those people will have or want to have nose procedures top alter the appearance of their noses. Are they insulting the ones that don't want or do that? I don't think so. Some decide to do something about and others don't really care that much about it. Those that feel insulted may already feel insecure about their looks without hearing comments from anyone. I don't read here that people do not like other people's big noses, which would be wrong. But if they say they do not like their own big nose, I accept that they are talking about their own looks and not about every other person out there with a big nose. I also do not believe that they are jumping on any bandwagon. They are just talking about themselves and what they like or do not like, or maybe like and accept in male mode but see as non-complimenting when they want to present in female mode.

The reason that I am replying to your post is that I still do not see any insult, intentional or not. If I read negative comments clearly directed at big nosed people, then I would agree with you.

I am not against people that dislike their appearance, I am not against people that change their appearance. I am against people deeming features as men's features when many women have similar features. I am not against people disliking their height, or their nose, or their feet. What I am against is deeming these things as negative men's traits that women do not have. There is a difference between saying "I dont like my height" and "I dont like my manly height". Many people seem to claim certain traits as male traits, but there are lots of beautiful women with those traits. A woman with a big nose does not have a man's nose, she has a woman's nose, that is the point I am trying to get at.

[Greenie]

I know what you are getting at. I have a friend. She is a GG. She is about 6'0m wears a womens size 12 shoe, and has very broad shoulders. She slouches as to not be "too tall" and hates her "big manly feet". However, SHE is ABSOLUTELY gorgeous. CDers can take their "masculine" qualities and ROCK the hell out of them and still be feminine and vice versa. I think height and shoe size are the ones talked about the most here. But mostly because lack of availability in sizes in womens shoes etc etc. But there are GG's who have those issues as well. A while ago I asked in a thread if anyone thought that the women SOME CDers portray is a sexist caricature of what a "real" woman is. Or CDers who would NEVER wear pants or jeans. GG's wear pants. rock the heck outta those pants!

[MissTee]

Yeah, what Greenie said. Rock it!

[Marika01]

It's because we are genetically male that we have to try a little harder, I think. My mentor mentioned that I was halfway there anyway - I don't have a masculine jawline and have high cheekbones, but also my gestures - hands especially - struck her as being feminine. So, no, apart from voice practice, I'm not doing anything radically different other than avoiding masculine shapes when I move. Keep your feet together, she keeps saying...

[linda allen]

If you try too hard to walk or act like a woman, you run the risk of looking gay. Flaming gay. That's what observers will think.

Of course if you actually are gay, that's fine. If not. people will wonder.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Ayame, I don't go out but depending on how I feel I may dress very casual just barely blending in
to dressing to the nines and acting the way I think ladies should act.

[CarlaWestin]

Hmmm? Doing things like a woman. I have a lesbian friend that has her own shop. She's very petite and feminine and dresses like a boy. But even in carhartt shorts, work boots and a buzz cut. She still emulates WOMAN. So sometimes I like to go for that look. Butchy but feminine. I've done buxom overalled construction girl look many times. Long red wig tied up in a red bandana. It''s just as much fun as the Jessica Rabbit over-swish. Besides, you look a little out of place at Home Depot buying a shovel in red pumps and a leather skirt.

[tiffanyjo89]

[TLDR on most of the thread]

I think that desire to be "like a woman" in a lot of CDers is a desire to pass as a woman. If you can create an image that says "WOMAN" or at least "woman" rather than "woman? man?" or "MAN" then you have a good chance of blending in. Most CDers know that going out in skirts and dark hose and done up to the nines to do grocery shopping does not = blending, but most CDers have to deal with having limited time to present this side of themselves.

[Aki]

Your point is well revived i can see the point and it's something that i really want, to stick to.
once had a Dream, and i were a Woman of cause. but i never felt better and i still chance that dream and it really is the main reason i want to be open and out in public.

I want my female look to be natural, and sexy ;)
dressing up in high-heel boots denim-pants and a nice Boat collar shirt or top and being able to pull it off.
i'm also trying to sing allot to to raise my deep voice.

i found this Transsexual who do the most convincing female voice.
Male to Female: Voice Feminization
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCgXLx_-mIE

its amazing :) and i admire her for doing it and sharing her story on her channel,
yes i know it not a CD...

i want to be My inner woman 100% and nothing less will do for me..
Ohh! well i can hope, can't i ;)

but to get a better shape i was thinking about getting a corset.
i think it can redefine your shape.. and it looks good ;)

http://www.loupiote.com/photos_m/5138568405-man-corset.jpg

[Tina_gm]

I think you are getting at something more than just the looks here? Also about "feminine" behavior? And I see a lot of people on here who talk about aspiring to act more womanly or girly.... to walk more like one sit like one etc etc. Along with the average everyday clothes women wear, their actions are not night and day from that of a man's either. The differences are subtle most of the time. With clothes as well as other physical actions, I see a lot of people here who I feel are trying too hard.