There are still 'no fly zones'.

[I Am Paula]

My wife has known about my gender issues since we met. She has always been grudgingly accepting. When I dropped the bomb that I had to transition early this year, she, once again, did her 'you do what you have to do', without much discussion. We live in a best friends/roommates situation. It's more of a fiscal partnership. She has seen me, for 18 years presenting female, acting female, in mannerism and demeanor, and speaking female. She is all well and good with that.

There are still some things that absolutely set her off. Taboos that if crossed, will start an instant argument.

Boob growth. Don't talk about it. Period.
I had some hot flashes early on. I made a joke about our similarity (she's in menopause). Glad I hid all the weapons.
She refuses to gender me properly. If I ask her to, she can go off about me not being a 'real' girl. I asked her to stay gender neutral, she sad 'Is, hey butthead, gender neutral enough?'
Mentioning that I'm normal. She pulls out the F word. Freak.
Here's a really strange one. We go out somewhere daily. Coffee, dinner and a movie etc. I am absolutely not allowed to wear a dress, or heels. She calls them 'gay'. Go figure. I've got boobs and makeup, a purse, female ID, but heels are 'gay'.
We shop together. I'll buy a cute very feminine top, then look at another, and she'll say it's too feminine.
A mention of lesbianism could easily cause a war.
She goes ballistic if she sees me in my underwear. I lock the door to change. Naked is OK though.

This could go on but you get the idea. Double standards, denial, what have you. Surprisingly, our marriage is not as bad as it sounds. We enjoy each others company, do couples stuff (except sex), and watch TV holding hands. We cook together, and take holidays (twin beds, please). I've seen much worse traditional marriages.

I realize that every relationship has boundries, be it hetero, gay, trans, or other.
But my wife's objections seem to be random, and dis-jointed. If she had a big general hatred of my gender issues, it would have been simple. Separate. If she was completely accepting, I wouldn't be writing this. I have just learned thru trial and error (mostly error), what is OK, and what pushes her buttons.

Anybody else with a rational, loving, spouse who just has a few irrational 'No fly zones'? How do you deal with it. Are these serious enough to jeopardize your relationship, or just her little quirks?

[kimdl93]

Hmmm, my wife's strongest admonition is to not embarrass her. So I avoid circumstances where I might bump into one of her coworkers, for example. When we go out, I still present in male mode, so I'm conceding that part for the time being.

I counsel myself on patience but at times have found value in addressing issues more proactively. Not overly assertively, mind you, but making sure that she understands where I'm coming from. So far, that seems to be working.

[Angela Campbell]

I am so glad I was already single when I began this, even if I had a somewhat understanding spouse I would surely screw it all up.

[KellyJameson]

Threads along the lines of a wife responding negatively to transitioning always create an internal conflict in me because I should be more sympathetic to the person transitioning but find the point of view of the wife really resonates with me.

This causes strong cognitive dissonance and I hate that feeling because it reminds me of the feeling of gender dysphoria which is the very definition of dissonance.

It is really hypocritical of me to say this but I do not think I would be strong enough to stay married to someone transitioning.

It is not that I would love them less as a human being for the transitioning but I could not handle the social pressures.

I have gone through incredible humiliation and embarassment because of being transsexual but it was forced on me so I had no choice but to push through but I find myself avoiding other transsexuals because I do not want a repeat of all those painful past experiences.

I suppose on some level this is a cowardly act but I have never thought of myself as couragous so no surprise there anyway.

Transitioning is standing in a hurricane and being buffeted by all the social forces that can be thrown at you. It is the looks of disgust, contempt and suspicion on a daily basis. It is being viewed as mentally ill, immoral or freakish. An act against nature or God depending on the point of view of the person pointing the finger.

Society builds cohesion through conformity because at our cores we are fearful of each other and the transsexual is thrown into this dangerous mix.

As transsexuals our very existence triggers the most primal of responses in others so is it any wonder that wives do not want to be dragged into and along with us. We attack their own identity and sense of right and wrong not intentionally but indirectly through an accident of association.

This tests the boudaries and very definition of love as loyalty, commitment and compassion.

Two years ago I would not have been sympathetic to the wives feelings because I was to lost in the consequences of lifelong dysphoria

I understand now why so much energy was and is expended to build and sustain the gender binary.

The gender binary serves cisgender heterosexuality and the transsexual violates these societal norms built out of this sexuality.

High Heels really have no practical purpose other than to sexualize the body, mainly for men, so your wife feels this makes you gay.

I understand much more clearly cisgender fears and it makes me really uncomfortable that I'm finding myself sympathetic with their fears considering all the pain these same cisgendereds have caused me but ulitmately their fear of us is instinctive and I doubt if they even understand their feelings fully

[Leah Lynn]

I am so glad I was already single when I began this, even if I had a somewhat understanding spouse I would surely screw it all up.

Same here, girl!

[CarlaWestin]

Oh Paula, I sympathize for you. I'm just a CD and I know I'm on thin ice when I post in TS threads but I just see this from the other side and the same side all at once. Just a human side. My wife snipes at my CD stuff all the time and I think if this were not a financial entwinement entanglement (marriage) we could easily row down separate canals. I, unfortunately, had to throw the alternative, sell the house then bye-bye, thing out there and it wasn't pleasant. But I don't use it as a tool. If it really came down to it, I would make comfortable financial arrangements for my wife to pursue her life but, the greater good is our union as husband and wife. I would hope that your wife would understand that your needs are equal to hers and that's how a marriage works. I hope I haven't over spoke. Bless you.

[Kathryn Martin]

It is hard for me to understand some of what is being said here. Not because I cannot empathize with what Paula has said or understand Kelly's point. It is because my experience has been so outside of the norm. E knew long before I transitioned that I was a girl. Not explicitly said, in the sense that she said you are a girl and I want to marry you, but in in the sense that what she married me for were all of the things that when I came out people felt had always been obvious. Don't misunderstand, E was extremely angry and for a time lost in the dynamic of my life at the time, but she said I will go through this with you one day at a time, but I don't know what every day will bring.

She also said if you need to do this you need to do this right. And it was her who took me by the hand and made sure in almost every aspect that my transition and transformation was the best we together could achieve. It was also she who said: "you need the surgery!" before I was able to verbalize what I needed. Sexuality is complicated but we are two heterosexual women happily married to each other with whatever implications you might imagine.

There are no no-fly-zones. The most difficult aspect of my transition was that she did not want to be seen or pegged as a lesbian. Because she is not and nor am I. Heels are routinely worn around here, and I have trouble with the notion that they sexualize the body for men. We both think they make us look hot.

[I Am Paula]

Thanks for the responses. To those of you who wonder why the hell we stay together. One morning I made a list of all our assets. With her pension, and an equal share, she could live quite comfortably for the rest of her life. I showed it to her, and said I was offering her an out. She refused absolutely, on the grounds she had no desire to ever leave me, and our marriage is, by this point, indestructable.
We have a strange and wonderful relationship.
I'm strange...she's wonderful.

[sandra-leigh]

[A point that others might not happened to have noticed: Paula and Kathryn both live in Canada, where same-sex marriage has been legal throughout for the last decade.]

[linda allen]

We often get selfish and think only of ourselves, not our wives. If a husband goes to his wife and says "Honey, I am a crossdresser and want to wear women's clothes and accessories from time to time." she will think that's a strange hobby or fetish but if she loves him, she may go along with some conditions.

If a husband goes to his wife and says "Honey, I am a transexual and feel like a woman and want to change my body through medicine and surgery to that of a female and I want to live my life as a female." that's an entirely different situation. The wife will feel like she was tricked or decieved or she will feel like she has lost her husband for good but is still stuck living with a half man/half woman. She doesn't want to be turned into a lesbian or to be thought of as a lesbial because she is now married to another woman.

I think if you are in this situation you have to feel lucky for whatever acceptance you get from your wife. Many would have dumped you, taken all they could, and outed you to everyone you know.

As for some things being OK and others not, as a crossdresser I have the same issues. The other day we were returning some skirts we bought for me because they didn't fit and I said "I don't think I'll get a larger size, they were too girlie anyway." She said "Everything you buy is girlie." I said "No, I mean they were better suited for a younger person."

[mary something]

I know this is an odd question but which person in the relationship is the one who is more of the decision maker, wears the pants, etc? I doubt that she would feel tricked after many years of cross gender living?

[irishsissy]

Holy cow Paula, Reading your post was like reading my situation here. The only difference I think I have here is my SO is more jealous than anything. For one she keeps telling me to act and look more my age. Which I refuse to do because every single person that sees me as Cindy tells me I have the body of a girl half my age. The only thing that I having trouble with is my makeup. It,s getting harder and harder to cover this 50yr old face of mine. Other than that you and I live pretty much the same way.

[kimdl93]

If it works for the two of you, then it's good.

[Eryn]

People can be illogical, and people under stress tend to be even more so.

TG partners are stressed strongly because they do not have the internal drive that we have to make ourselves congruent. They can perceive the "person they knew" as crumbling and that leads them to grasp at pieces of the persona that they knew.

If a restriction is truly one that troubles you then you should sit down and seriously discuss it with her. Limit the discussion to that issue alone and first explain to her that the reason that you bring the subject up is that you value your relationship and the your distress over the issue is affecting the relationship. The issue might turn out to not be as important to your spouse as you perceive it, since your lack of discussion has left you in the dark about what she is thinking.

[Marleena]

My wife has known about my gender issues since we met. She has always been grudgingly accepting. When I dropped the bomb that I had to transition early this year, she, once again, did her 'you do what you have to do', without much discussion. We live in a best friends/roommates situation. It's more of a fiscal partnership.


Same here and I see the humor in this thread Paula.:) I think all of us hope that we can keep our marriages together despite we're both women and the "L" word will inevitably cause a war.lol. What we are trying is compromise, I know I am because I have 20 years of history with my wife and love her. So yep, I have no-fly zones too. For me it would be SRS and she made that clear and I understand. Some of the other ones would be no outing myself to family and neighbors. She keeps thinking of me as the "guy" I used to be and I have to remind her that my body and thinking are changing to more female in nature.

So I might be breaking some transition rules but I can live with them based on my current circumstances that I've explained to some of you. Can it go on? I'm not sure as very few TS women stay in their marriages. There are quite a few of us transitioning with wives and some even with young kids and this is the toughest thing we'll ever do.

[melissaK]

Hmmmm. Are we trying to 'norm' ourselves here?

You're married. She's with you, you are with her. You have and live with no fly zones rather than part company. Neither of you are alone. Win - win relationship.

Don't worry. Be happy.

[Rianna Humble]

stuck living with a half man/half woman.

I don't think you really appreciate how disgustingly insulting that sentence is. We are not half anything.

[SuzanneBender]

Boundaries don't always have to be logical your situation is the perfect case. It sounds like your wife is truly in love with you, but she despises the fact that you are a woman.

[bas1985]

in latin there is a saying that says "ad impossibilia nemo tenetur" (nobody is asked to do the impossible).

In this case when we marry we contract some obligations, but if later there are circumstances that
make these obligations impossible than we are free, if the circumstances are outside our control.

In a case like us, we are TS, this is out under our control, unfortunately. We took the obligations
to be "men" for all life, to support, love, work, sustain (economically and emotionally) our spouse
for all life.

When we come out to ourselves, we escape the "denial" phase we are... well, we are in a position
that renders the obligations of marriage a bit stretched. We can ask for adaptation, but it is
a "concession" that we ask, it is not an obligation on our partner who did not know how "serious" our
condition was.

Our partner cannot ask us the impossible (not to transition, because this is our nature and we did not choose to be TS)
But we cannot ask the impossible too (to be loved as a woman when our spouse married a man).

[Angela Campbell]

When I got married I do not remember any vow to remain a man for the rest of my life (although it may well have been an expectation). I remember love honor and cherish.....nothing about never changing. It was supposed to be for better or worse....amazing how many bail out when the worst comes around.

[FurPus63]

I'm probably jealous and envious of you because you have what I wanted at one point in my life; although I don't want it anymore. I left my wife, and thus lost our marriage, to do this. It hurt like hell. I didn't realize how much I loved her until she was no longer with me. I also didn't realize how much I had hurt her until over a year after we seperated. Now, miraculously, we are the best friends I always had hoped we'd be! It took seperation and divorce for us to come together, put aside all the hate and anger; and be friends. Is that amazing or what?!

Despite this fact; I often have thought about the topic of marriage, and contemplated in my mind: "what if....?" What if we had stayed married? It could have been as it is now. We could be friends and live together, etc..... just like you and your wife. However; and this is just my opinion based on my experience of life, I'm glad we are not!!! Mostly for the reasons you've mentioned and a few you have not. My x-wife and I still argue about the same things we used to before all of this took place and we have to set boundaries on what topics can be discussed and which can't be. She refuses to acknowledge that I am a woman, and that issue hurts me and can cause a heated arguement between us if not "nipped in the bud" right away. Although we will do some "girly" things together like go shopping, skim through my AVON books together, talk/discuss fashion, etc.... It is limited and she will only tolerate it for so long and then ask me to stop talking about it. She has yet to see my boobs (undressed) and I have no intention of ever showing them to her! LOL! The biggest reason of all: neither one of us is comfortable living as lesbians and sex between us (pre-op or post-op) is impossible! Therefore; if we were married, I'd either have to live my life celebate (which in that case I might as well be a nun!) or we'd have had to agreed to date and/or have sex with other people in an "open" marriage relationship; and there's no-way in hell my x-wife would ever agree to that! So....I guess I'm glad we're not married any longer; although our renewed friendship is very much appreciated, embraced and enjoyed!

As I think about it, I have a simular situation/relationship as you, Paula. The only difference is we are not married any longer. Oh and I am living with my boyfriend!LOL! I guess I can have empathy with you from the point of view that I wish my ex-wife would acknowledge some of the things that are improtant to me. She still refuses to call me "Paulette" and insisits on my former name, except on very rare occassions in public places where it was absolutely necessary to call me by my chosen name. This bothers me, but I allow her to get away with it, and only her, because I know how much I hurt her; and out of all the people related to me, I feel she is the only one who was really hurt the worst. This is related to the issue of her not being able to acknowledge me as a woman; and that hurts me too, but I again, tolerate it. So there are some, "no-fly zones," for me/us in our relationship as well. However; If I had it my way those would not exist!

Paulette

[Marleena]

Well Angela, they didn't expect to be marrying a woman either.:sad: I'm sure we all fight it and deny it as long as we can. My wife saw me melting down with GD and pushed for me to start HRT. She knew the consequences but knows it wasn't my fault. I think she's just embarrassed by me and doesn't want to let her family know. Problem is her kids have seen me as a female enough times to know I'm at least TG. So it would only be confirmation that I'm actually TS.

[bas1985]

of course from a "civilian" point of view... it is OK. I speak from a POV of a religious marriage. For a Catholic the marriage is of course only between a GM and a GF (Genetic Male/Female). Catholic do not take into considerations intersexed people. XXY, XY with AIS, etc, are simply "not existing". In that sense, if you are married in church than probably the vow to remain "male" is implicit in the marriage itself, because marriage is for life and if you change "sex" you are voiding the marriage (because same sex marriage is not OK). But I understand that this is complex matter.

[I Am Paula]

In every marriage there are those areas we step lightly around. Be it that '69 Camaro in the garage you've been promising to rebuild since '78, or your girly magazines your wife knows are behind the dresser.
A few of you got it. My post was about my good marriage, and it's few quirks. None the less, I appreciate all the responses, because TS marriage posts are important.
By definition, the marriage between a TS and a natal woman is going to be unconventional. There's no big book, or instruction manual. We have found our way of living in it, and we each know our options, including the 'out clause'.
Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. Today, all is good. And I won't put on heels.