Sexual Orientation

[ChristinaXOXO]

Hey girls! I have questions that's been pondering in my mind for awhile.

I'm in my 20s and I've been CDing ever since the age of 14. For the last 6 years of experiencing CD, I've been only doing it for sexual purposes. Not just putting on garments but the whole package; wig, makeup, etc. Now am I doing this for the purpose of fulfilling a sexual fantasy, sexual desires, or is this just some sort of fetish I have during enfemme?

I am a straight CD but sometimes I question my sexual orientation when I am in enfemme. I love women and I am attracted to them. Even when I'm in enfemme, I still am attracted to them to point where I fantasize of having sex with them. Does this make me a lesbian during enfemme? And if I wanted to have sex with a man while enfemme would I be considered gay or bisexual?

Any opinions or help would be greatly appreciated!

Love ChristinaXOXO~

[Cyndie]

You are what you are. Putting on lingerie or a dress and heels does not make you a different person inside. I believe that we do not choose our sexuality or orientation. Sexuality is somewhere in side of us, our genes or hormones or something. Our present situation in life or the experiences we have in life may effect how we express that sexuality, but they do not change it. I lot of cross dressers ask, "What does cross dressing make me?" It does not make me anything, it is just an expression of who I am. Many people find cross dressing strange, but before World War II a woman wearing slacks was considered unacceptable by most of our society. Who know how cross dressing will be view in 75 years. I hope for younger gurls like you, in a better light.

Cyndie

[Erica Marie]

Im not going to elaborate on sexual preference. But you are young and I promise you will go through ALOT off different stages of crossdressing. Been there done that and being 40 something I still havent figured it all out. All I can say is grab every opportunity you can to figure out who you are inside, just please do it safely.

[Kate Simmons]

I think it just makes you yourself my friend.:)

[Brooklyn]

I'd say those feelings are common at your age. Are you ever attracted to men en drab? If not, being with a man may just be part of a sexual fantasy. Up to you if you really want to act on that...

[ChristinaXOXO]

No I am not attracted to men en drab ever. However, I am attracted to MtF CDs, MtF trans, and GGs while en femme. When I'm in drab I am still attracted to them.

[kymberlyjean]

Like it's been said- you are what you are. You're curious and you're exploring things that intrigue you. Nothing you said is earth shattering, so don't worry about that. As far as sexual orientation- that has way more to do with what you desire for a partner than what you do with or by yourself. Please don't feel like you have to run out to a gay bar and try to pick up a guy because you've figured out you like anal stimulation. If you're not attracted to guys, you're not attracted to guys. Period, the end. Plenty of straight guys like anal stimulation. Plenty of straight crossdressers like anal stimulation. It doesn't mean anything. Gay, straight, bi, try- is about what's between your ears, not between your legs or up your hoo-ha.
Please don't take this like I'm trying to talk you out of being gay or trying either. If that's something you feel you need to do, by all means explore it. Just don't confuse the two.

[ChristinaXOXO]

I don't think I desire men at all it's just the act of what I'm doing is making me think if I'm gay or not. Thanks for the clarification though!

[suzy1]

the whole subject of sex is not as simple as some will have you believe. They say I am heterosexual or I am gay or I am bi and so on.
Many people go thro their entire lives never exploring their sexual side beyond plain [vanilla?] sex.
The society we live in does seem to shun the darker side of sex as they see it [its not dark, just exciting!] and most people never explore the true potential within them.

You are going through a time of finding your self sexually so don't be put off by anyone. Just keep your mind open and enjoy this most amazing side to our lives.

[Beverley Sims]

No, not necessarily gay maybe a bit of fantasy creeps in there.
Keep it to yourself like others do and there is no harm.
You are likely to grow out of it and find other adventures.

[Lynn Marie]

I like what Suzy said. She's pretty smart.

Have fun, explore everything, be safe. If men give you a rise, you're probably gay, if not, you're not. Don't over think things.

[Gillian Gigs]

In another post it was said that we will go through different stages in our CDing. It sounds to me like you are into the fetish stage at this time. To confirm this, ask yourself this question, "how long do you remain dressed after your explosion"? Most in the fetish stage can't get out of the clothes fast enough, or the desire for the clothes is gone immediately after the event. So, don't beat up yourself over it. Most of your fantasies will lean towards what your orientation is, and it sounds like straight to me. Many of us started out this way, the fetish stage, and the stages shifted over the years to where each of us are now. Oh to be young again.

One last thought, if you get serious with some girl, before it goes too far, tell her about your habits. If you loose her, you loose her, better to find a CD friendly spouse, as CDers rarely give up their habits permanently. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you are any different from the rest of us...you're more than likely not!

[Lacyfem]

I'm a bit older than you but when I started at 10 I was always sexually aroused but without thoughts of a man or a women. It was just a feeling when putting on a bra and panty I guess that was so forbidden that it was exciting. As I progressed through life my dressing was surpressed but when I could I did and still got sexually aroused and considered myself herterosexual. However, around 10 years ago I found myself dressing and wanting to be attractive to a man. I guess if I was it would be the ultimate compliment to me being a woman. Eventually, I acted on this feeling and the action of being with a man confirmed how much I loved being a woman and that this feeling if I look back was always in me and I never let it out. Yes, and being with the men I've been with has been enjoyable and my sexual feelings were and are no longer just from the dressing but for the feeling of looking good for a man to want me emotionally and sexually.

[ChristinaXOXO]

@Gillian, I shortly undress after the release and yes, I will definitely let my SO know about my closeted CD habits. I've always been trying to run away from this and force myself to be more masculine over the past few years. I've always asked myself why do I desire the need to CD and it irks me because I can't answer the question. Trying to suppress my CD on and off didn't work at all. God knows how many times I've purged and try to quit CDing and in the end I just end up coming back to it.

@Lacy, so are you saying you wanted to explore your femininity more by being with a man? How did it feel when you thought about it when you went back to being en drab? So it's possible while in enfemme, our sexual orientation changes? But when in drab we are hetero?

Thank you for all your insights on this topic. It's really have answered some of my questions. There's one thing I like to point out as some of you mentioned that "you are what you are." Could someone please go more depth with me on this? I don't know if it's just me but my CDing and drab are completely different personalities.

[Diversity]

This may be an over-simplistic, reply, but since you said you are a straight CD, then I'd say you are a male when you fantasize about women when you are dressed en femme. Only the clothes are different - that's all.
When you are dressed en femme and are fantasizing about having sex with a male, then I'd say you may have bisexual tendencies. If you acted upon those fantasies, then you may be bisexual. I wouldn't necessarily say you are bisexual if it was a one-time, curious experience. You could then be only exploring your sexual being. If you repeated this, then I'd say you are bisexual, since you are also a straight CD.
Either way, I'd say you should enjoy your journey and learn what you can about yourself. Be safe, and do your best not to hurt the feelings of loved ones.
That's my view - hope it is helpful to you in some way. Good luck!
Di

[ChristinaXOXO]

@Diversity, Thanks for your input!

[Candice Mae]

The way I look at it is until you have SRS, you are still male. Then wanting to have sex with a woman still means that you are heterosexual, sex with women and men is bisexual, and sex with only men means you are homosexual. The clothing you wear or the mind games in your head does not change your gender or sexuality. Granted there is some grey area when transitioning, but for CD's the above applies. Though only my opinion....

[MichelleinEugene]

I feel that if you would like to think of yourself as a lesbian when en femme... go ahead, it could heighten the experience for you. Do you feel like a woman, or identify as a woman when you are dressed? Maybe you are. Don't worry too much about it. If you want to use labels than that is a-ok. Have fun and be safe and respectful with your partners and whatever you do it great! Life is too short to worry about fitting into boxes that nobody fits into anyway.

[Sheelah]

Well said!

[mary something]

Does this make me a lesbian during enfemme? And if I wanted to have sex with a man while enfemme would I be considered gay or bisexual?

Love ChristinaXOXO~

When you are in girl mode and desire a woman do you want to be intimate with her the way a man is or the way a woman is? If you feel uncomfortable using that part of your anatomy in that way and find that it feels "normal" or congruent to pretend it isn't there then perhaps you are a lesbian.

As for sex with a man while in girl mode is it a faceless nameless man who has simply the role of man so you can fulfill the role of woman? Or is it Brad or Joe or someone specific that you have the hots for? If it is someone specific then you're at least bisexual, if it's simply a proxy phantom in your head so that you can feel more feminine then you're probably heterosexual but need to feel that you're feminine more than your current expression is allowing and thus the fantasy happens.

Try not to worry so much about the labels. What is important is finding out what you need to be happy and fulfilled in your life, not so much being worried about labels enough that it would hinder your growth as a person.

Sexuality is an aspect of identity. It is one of the prime components of identity and if someone has a gender that doesn't fit neatly into their biological box then the real need for expression of ourselves can be confusing when we try to figure out our sexuality. Males that are gay are attracted to masculinity enough that they will be fantasizing about a specific person typically and it doesn't matter whether they are in girl or boy mode to feel this attraction.

[Tracii G]

From all you said you sound like a heterosexual CDer nothing more.
Remember just because you CD does not mean you are gay or that it will make you gay.
Gender and sexual preference are two different things.
At your age its normal to wonder and fantasize about things,you are dealing with raging hormones right now.
Just have fun and explore your sexuality we all have done it trust me, its called growing up.

[ChristinaXOXO]

@Candice. Although you may be partially right but what if a lady boy wanted to have sex with a woman or is sexually attractive to women? Would it then be considered a homosexual act? If yes, then isn't it the same thing if a CDer was under the impression or illusion that she is absolutely completely female and is sexually attractive to women? Again, you may be partially right on the clothing you wear or the mind games in your head doesn't change your gender or sexuality but I disagree to some extent. For some CDers there is a different persona when in enfemme so it's possible you're gender or sexuality can change. The persona is so strong that they believe, they are a women but have no desire to "actually" be a women.

@Michelle. Yes, I really feel like a woman and probably identify myself as a woman when I am dressed. Thanks for your insight :)

@Mary. When I'm in girl mode and desiring a women, I want to be intimate with her the way a woman is. I do somewhat feel a little uncomfortable using that part of my anatomy. A better way to put is while I'm in enfemme I am sexually attracted to women. But then there's this underlying thought that I am also attracted to trans women, attractive CDers, and lady boys. I am also attracted to them when in drab. So again, I am confused with my sexual orientation.

As for having intercourse with a man while in girl mode. It's probably to fulfill the role of a women or a outlying fantasy. I strongly believe I'm not bisexual. You're probably spot on with the proxy phantom in my head. It probably wouldn't hinder my growth as a person but I am just curious about other people's opinion. As for the labels it's probably hard for me to not worry about it. The questions that I have asked were remained dormant for a really long time so probably the thoughts of labels are quite strong.

Thank you for all your inputs!

Christina.

[ChristinaXOXO]

From all you said you sound like a heterosexual CDer nothing more.
Remember just because you CD does not mean you are gay or that it will make you gay.

At the really early stages (around 15-18) of my CD that's what I was under the impression of. Thank you for you advice Tracii :)

Christina.

[Candice Mae]

@Candice. Although you may be partially right but what if a lady boy wanted to have sex with a woman or is sexually attractive to women? Would it then be considered a homosexual act? If yes, then isn't it the same thing if a CDer was under the impression or illusion that she is absolutely completely female and is sexually attractive to women? Again, you may be partially right on the clothing you wear or the mind games in your head doesn't change your gender or sexuality but I disagree to some extent. For some CDers there is a different persona when in enfemme so it's possible you're gender or sexuality can change. The persona is so strong that they believe, they are a women but have no desire to "actually" be a women.
Christina.

Gender is defined by sexual organs of the person, gender can only change if those are changed. If you put a cat in a dog costume it is still a cat.... If I believe in my mind that I am a cat, I'm still human nothing changes. Fantasy Vs. reality there is a huge difference...

As much as I would like to be a GG, thinking I'm one won't make it happen...

Sexuality intern is determined by which gender you are attracted to, the gender of the people infolded determines their sexuality.

[ChristinaXOXO]

@Candice. True gender is defined by sexual organs of the person. The cat analogy really doesn't fit in my opinion. Gender can also be defined by changes in, presentation and sexual identity change your behaviour and therefore your personality can change. Gender is not a specific trait but a collection of traits (appearance, deportment, mannerisms, moses of interpersonal interactions) based on social conventions. They are largely symbolic but personality is largely symbolic anyway. Personalities change. Changing gender is one way to change how you view yourself and how others view you.

Now, if you still rightfully think gender is defined by sexual organs of the person and gender can only change if those are changed. How would you define a lady boy who has no intentions of SRS, but has the persona and intention of becoming a female only with the exception of having a male genitalia. This is just a possible realistic example. It could be the same for a CDer minus the intention of SRS and becoming a female.

Christina.

[Candice Mae]

Male genitals = Male gender

Its called gender reassignment surgery or sexual reassignment surgery for a reason, it results in the person changing gender. Other then genitals male and female bodies are similar, we all have the same bones and other organs. Besides inter-sexed people, gender is basically black and white.

If I think I'm a male cat, I behave like one and am attracted to a female human, does that make it beastiality? Again Fantasy and reality...

I think your confusing some one that identifies as a different gender rather then actually genetically or by surgery being that gender.

[ChristinaXOXO]

Male genitals = Male gender

Its called gender reassignment surgery or sexual reassignment surgery for a reason, it results in the person changing gender. Other then genitals male and female bodies are similar, we all have the same bones and other organs. Besides inter-sexed people, gender is basically black and white.

No, I totally understand that the fact that we we're either born with chromosomes of XY and XX and the possibility of hermaphrodites. Honestly, it's pretty difficult to discuss this black and white and getting into deeper discussion about it would probably cause confusion.

[Tracii G]

You asked if you were dressed as a female and had sex with a female would you be doing a homosexual act? No because you are male and she is female genetically.
Why you even had to wonder or make that statement is beyond me.

[rachelcdtvcd]

personally, i think you're straight as an arrow...especially if you haven't had sex with a man..just because you fantasize about someone, doesn't make you bisexual...people sometimes think about killing someone, but that in itself doesn't make them a murderer either, does it?

[mary something]

Male genitals = Male gender

Its called gender reassignment surgery or sexual reassignment surgery for a reason, it results in the person changing gender. Other then genitals male and female bodies are similar, we all have the same bones and other organs. Besides inter-sexed people, gender is basically black and white.


sorry but gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Gender has VERY little to do with what is behind your zipper, that is what your physical sex is. Gender is in your brain, how it is organized, how you feel and think and perceive the world around you. They DON'T call it gender reassignment surgery anymore, because you can't change your gender any more than you can change the essence of who and what you are.

This idea was prevalent in the 70's that gender is found between the legs. Matter of fact medical treatments were even given to infants whose genitalia were either injured or were born intersex to surgically reassign them as female because it was thought that gender was a social construct only that was dependent upon physical genitalia and social conditioning.

A lot of people's lives were ruined, most famously the John/Joan case of a boy who was surgically reassigned to female as an infant and raised as a girl. He grew up convinced that he was a boy even though he had no way of knowing this other than innately.

The fact that Dr. Money lied about the outcomes of his work and thus "proved" that gender is based upon genitals didn't help anyone but Dr. Money's own career, sadly at the expense of almost everyone else.

Nor is gender necessarily rooted in a simple explanation of xx or xy chromosomes. The human body is much more complex than that, there are women with xy chromosomes, men with xx chromosomes, and LOTS of people who would test xx or xy depending on what part of the body the sample was taken from.

The notion that it's all in our chromosomes and xy means male gender is simply not true.

This article goes into much greater detail if interested

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2005to2009/2006-biased-interaction.html


What makes this even more complicated when it comes to sexual labels is that in our culture people don't understand the difference between gender and sex and trying to label a person with a gender variance as straight or hetero or homo just doesn't work because those labels are based upon the assumption that gender is synonymous with genitalia. Even though 99% of the folks out there probably don't have a conflict between their gender and their sex that doesn't prove it as true, it's the exceptions that prove the rule and in this case it's not hard to find documented medical evidence supporting my assertion that gender has very little to do with what is between your legs.

All you can be is yourself. If you worry about labels to the point that it means you're not being yourself then happiness is gonna be really difficult to find.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Christina, You sound like a normal young male Crossdresser !

[Pandys]

Like you I started dressing originally for the sexual experience. My sexuality has changed as I have gotten older. So for now I am "bi" but for a long term relation ship I would wish to be with a female SO, hopefully one who enjoys my dressing part time too.
I find my preferences change with my dress or I dress to fit my preferences (still working on that) .
Lots of great advice on here, but the best I have heard is to be who you WANT to be and don't get caught up with labels.

[NicoleScott]

It's surprising to me that someone who has been on the forum for over four years still has confusion over sex/gender. MarySomething, I'm glad you straightened out the male genitals = male gender thing. You nailed it.
Christina, there's a lot of difference between finding someone attractive, being attracted to someone, and wanting to have sex with someone. I find other CDers attractive, and that attracts me to them, but I don't want to have sex with them. Just as I don't want to have sex with every GG I find attractive. I am just attracted to beauty, and if that beautiful person turns out to be a CDer, the attraction (to the look) stops there and cannot (for me) progress to sexual attraction.
Many CDers dress for sexual excitement, and many fantasize about being with a man. It's just fantasy, and such thoughts often serve to validate a CDer's femininity by imagining that a man can find you attractive when you're en femme. But start thinking about what's under that dress and in his pants and the fantasy evaporates, unless that's what excites you, in which case it would be right to question your straightness.

[serena33]

Gender is defined by sexual organs of the person, gender can only change if those are changed. If you put a cat in a dog costume it is still a cat.... If I believe in my mind that I am a cat, I'm still human nothing changes. Fantasy Vs. reality there is a huge difference...

As much as I would like to be a GG, thinking I'm one won't make it happen...

Sexuality intern is determined by which gender you are attracted to, the gender of the people infolded determines their sexuality.

Transversely, u could have the srs and have breasts and a functioning vagina and still talk like a man. Walk like a man. Throw a ball like a man and have the same dna u had beforehand. Theres more to being a man than just having a penis and more to being a woman than just having breasts and vagina.

Id also like to touch on another post that says we have similar body parts/ organs. Its funny because we all start out the same until the extra chromosome is added but even then. When I was a baby I was often confused for a girl. Even though I was dressed in blue (boy) clothing. Quoting "hes too pretty to be a boy". I havent been confused as a girl these days which is both fortunate and unfortunate. But as kids there really isnt much difference. Besides the innie and the outie...lol. and the clothes ur in. From there I think we are somewhat moulded into what defines our gender. We may have similar body parts but they are definitely differently shaped as adults

[linda allen]

If you are a male, you can't be a lesbian. Wearing a bra does not change that.

If you are a male and have sex with another male (on purpose and enjoy it) you are either gay or bisexual. Wearing a bra does not change that either.

[suzy1]

. But as kids there really isnt much difference. Besides the innie and the outie...lol. and the clothes ur in. From there I think we are somewhat moulded into what defines our gender. s


As I read this I am looking at [and playing with] my sisters two children. Max is four years old and Ruby is two years old.
Little ruby does not have a male cell in her body. Every hand gesture, every look, or movement of her little head is sooooooo feminine. Even her hizzy fits are so much a recognisable part of a typical woman [Sorry GGs]

Max however is all boy! A real little man. Even at two he was obviously male.

So I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Serena.
We are not moulded, we are born the way we are in my opinion.

[serena33]

U know. Sexual orientation. Has been somewhat confusing for me throughout the yrs. But I think im coming to terms with it. As a boy I dressed up in my mothers clothing as im sure we all did. Thought it was just a kid thing but the urge never went away. It eventually led to nail polish thenbuying llingerie makeup shoes and evrrything. And even bought toys. Which is another topic...buying all these things for the first time...lol. nerve racking. Any way, I stumbled in as a kid on my mom sleeping but her vibrator was out. I was fascinated by it thinking I want to try one of those one day. And then there was porn. I was and still am very attracted /lustful toward women but it never seemed like a sex scene if there wasnt a penis in it. I have had sexual experiences with both genders. I am attracted to femininity for all its aspects. Not to mention its a much easier lifestyle from the judging eyes but sexually spiritually emotionally attracted to women. I am also attracted to the penis...lol. that is all. I like guys as friends and I can say that guy has a nice body but it doesnt excite me the way seeing a woman does. So I am sexually attracted to the penis and its function as well as I am to women. Call it penis envy or what have u...cuz every guy has penis envy. Thats why theyre drawn in almost every public bathroom. ..lol. I also however wouldnt want a cheap gross encounter with a man. Id prefer it to still be sensual and attentive and prefer to do that in girl mode. I guess its my femininity. I like penis the only problem is, theyre attached to d!@#s...lol. I have experimented and thought and tried to define myself with labels and went through guilt. But im starting to understand that this is who I am. Im thos way for a reason. Im not hurting anyone. In fact im only here to love.

[ChristinaXOXO]

@Serena. So do you believe that you are bisexual? Also you sound more like you'd be into lady boys.

@Mary. Thanks for link. It was a very good read and a lot of information to absorb.

@Linda. Thank you for your insight. I am positive I will never have sex with another male. However, it's been fantasized while in enfemme to be curious about it.

[mary something]

gay, straight, bi... when you're talking about someone that has some type of gender variance like a cd or ts these words are only adjectives, using them as nouns creates a barrier to understanding ourselves that doesn't serve any good.

[Candice Mae]

sorry but gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Gender has VERY little to do with what is behind your zipper, that is what your physical sex is. Gender is in your brain, how it is organized, how you feel and think and perceive the world around you. They DON'T call it gender reassignment surgery anymore, because you can't change your gender any more than you can change the essence of who and what you are.

Genitals are used to determine gender in the legal and medical world, if the above was true the world would be turned upside down. I look a female, I identify as a female, but in the end I am still unfortunately male. If gender was in your brain then I could go down to my local registry and become a legal female because in my mind I am one. Or join a woman's only gym, and use a woman's change room. Go to my doctor to see why I cant get pregnant to have him tell me it is because I am male that I cant get pregnant. Even though you still cant get pregnant after SRS, your as close to a GG as you can get.

If the world was run by what people think they are it would be anarchy.

[Michelle789]

I'm gonna have to agree with mary something on this one. Gender is who you are and how your brain is wired, and is your sense of who you really are, male, female, or something in between or something else. That's why they call it a "woman trapped in a man's body." Sex refers to your physical body and what genitals you have, as well as secondary sex characteristics (e.g. breasts).

In our society, we commonly use the words sex and gender interchangeably, this causing confusion over what sex and gender really means. But if you read any legitimate website or resource on transgender, you'll find out there is a clear difference between sex and gender. So for a pre-transition TS, you may identify internally as a female (gender and gender identity), be anatomically male (sex), legally male (legal sex, legal gender), and present as both male and female at different times (gender expression).

Confusing, interchangeably used words. Law and order. Yes. We live in a world defined by laws. But law isn't the same thing as justice. Anytime someone is convicted of a crime they didn't commit, or is acquitted of a crime they did commit, law was done, but justice was not done. And sadly, only the person convicted or acquitted, and God, what really happened. Same thing with gender, only you and God know your true gender identity, even if it's opposite (or different) from what you are legally.

Let me rephrase this. OJ was legally found not guilty of murdering Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. Does that mean that OJ didn't commit the murder. 99.99% of people believe OJ did it, even though in the eyes of the law he did nothing. In the end of the day only OJ and God know what really happened, regardless of what 12 sequestered jurors think and what 99.99% of the general population thinks.

So if you identify as female internally, but are legally male, you are female. In the eyes of the law you are still male. That's why we have transition, for those who need to correct their body and legal and social identities to match who you are internally.

They call it "sex reassignment surgery" because it's reassigning your physical sex. It's not changing your internal gender, but your physical and legal sex.

I'm no expert, but that's my two cents.

[mary something]

Genitals are used to determine gender in the legal and medical world, if the above was true the world would be turned upside down.

If the world was run by what people think they are it would be anarchy.

like many mistruths there is enough truth in your statement that it will be difficult at best to get you to see my point but what the heck I'm still gonna try ;)

Yes genitals are used to determine gender in the legal and medical world, that is because 99% of the time they match. It is the easiest and simplest way to order society to avoid the horrors of anarchy I suppose. However like most things in life it's not as black and white as you make it sound. Medical science recognizes this fact and if you reread my posts you'll find that every assertion that I've made is compatible with the most advanced understandings of the medical and scientific community. I've even given specific examples such as John/Joan Reimer that has completely revolutionized how infants with intersex conditions are treated by medical science.

On a personal level it is your brain that makes you desire to be called a woman's name and have some really nice looking cleavage, not your genitals or your ileum or your little toe. It is your brain that makes you "you", and a part of what makes a person who they are is their gender identity.

I don't know how to say this except bluntly but honey men don't want nice looking female breasts, a woman's name and to be referred to with female pronouns and such. If you don't believe me you're welcome to test this the next time you're out in public. Pick a random guy and compliment him on his rack, call him her and tell him he should have been named Candy or Trixie lol. Heck wait until you come across someone who really makes your gaydar ping and you'll still get a rather negative reaction probably ;)

The need to express your gender as a part of your identity can vary from person to person, some people have a stronger need than others and you'll see this consistently across all labels of people, gay, straight, women, men, etc. Some butch lesbians are REALLY butch and others express theirselves to a lesser extent. Some biological males with a female oriented gender id are happy with an alter ego on the internet, others are miserable until their entire life is congruent.

Not being able to get pregnant does not exclude a person from being a woman, or else every lady who experiences menopause is suddenly not a woman anymore right?

Transgender is a medical condition, it's fairly rare and so our culture hasn't in the past been organized in a manner that recognizes this phenomenon but that is changing quickly now that new information has come to light.


If you don't think gender is in the brain then go down to the local ICU and find a patient who is brain dead ask them if they prefer to be called ma'am or sir then post back here later and let us know ;)

[jenni_xx]

If you don't think gender is in the brain then go down to the local ICU and find a patient who is brain dead ask them if they prefer to be called ma'am or sir then post back here later and let us know ;)

They didn't answer. So I guess in terms of that "experiment", we can't deduce anything either way.

I think you're missing Candice's point. You're making a counter-argument based only on semantics. Replace the word gender with male (or female), and the point Candice is making becomes obvious. You (probably inadvertantly) are essentially making the same point - after all, you're using terms like "men", "female breasts", "woman's name" in order to get your point across, yet they are, by their very definition, just gender-specific words that elicit the very same connotation.

And it's too simplistic to say that it's all down to our brain. The brain is after all also a reactionary organ, one that can (and is) stimulated by other parts of the body. Prick your toe, the brain reacts, and it's then that signals are sent, making us consciously aware of what is happening.

[mary something]

of course they didn't answer because they don't have a gender anymore, or an identity, or a consciousness. Because gender is in the brain where our identity rests.

If a man loses his genitalia in an accident is he still a man? If he is impotent? I know a lot of people would say no or try to use partial degrees of manhood as a qualifier. I see manhood or womanhood as absolute, kinda like being pregnant in the sense that you either are or you aren't. I don't necessarily agree with our cultures limited take on what a man is, for example I think an effeminate man is just as much a man as the most masculine.

I'm not trying to be difficult or maybe make a semantic argument, however the idea that gender is synonymous with physical sex is so ingrained in culture and the english language that it takes a conscious and consistent effort to see the reality of it as it is. that is why if the word gender is replaced with sex or genitalia then I understand and pretty much agree with much of what Candace says. The problem is that it is necessary to be specific about this or our words can mean something totally different than what was intended.

"If gender was in your brain then I could go down to my local registry and become a legal female because in my mind I am one. Or join a woman's only gym, and use a woman's change room. " Of course you can do all that if you're willing to follow the medical standards that are in place to assist in making it socially acceptable. Medical standards that are based on the fact that gender is a part of identity and is innate and social standards that dictate that person's with male genitalia are not considered women and vice-versa

[Julie Gaum]

Girls, I hate to see so many struggling to reinvent the wheel --- a few posters touch on it by correctly saying that sexual orentation may not only be defined by chromsomes but by the wiring of the brain. Rather than me or other members that are also familiar with this subject
present the details kindly go to Google and visit "Harry Benjamin's Syndrome". Developed years ago it deals with an intersex condition developed in early pregnancy affecting the process of sexual orientation. Further, the Reimer incident doesn't represent what the Norwegian
medical community have advanced far ahead of other nations by quickly identifying babies requiring physical adjustments in order to avoid that child having to be traumatized later in life because their genitalia doesn't relate to their mindset. Other than that it was an interesting
OP of experiences very common to most in the CD community.
Julie

[Confucius]

Sexual orientation; heterosexual - homosexual are just terms we use. Humans are sexual beings. We often don't fit into neat little categories. It would be more accurate if we viewed sexual orientation as shades of grey.

[serena33]

If you are a male, you can't be a lesbian. Wearing a bra does not change that.

If you are a male and have sex with another male (on purpose and enjoy it) you are either gay or bisexual. Wearing a bra does not change that either.

Ok. So u would consider it homosexuality even though I may feel like a woman at the time. I would be "expressing my feminity" to the max but still it would be a homosexual act. Even though I am a man and have heterosexual orientation the majority of the time. So for arguments sake, u are saying that if a man has srs and feels he is a woman and is sexually attracted to men, he would still be homosexua, even though technically he is a womanl

[serena33]

As I read this I am looking at [and playing with] my sisters two children. Max is four years old and Ruby is two years old.
Little ruby does not have a male cell in her body. Every hand gesture, every look, or movement of her little head is sooooooo feminine. Even her hizzy fits are so much a recognisable part of a typical woman [Sorry GGs]

Max however is all boy! A real little man. Even at two he was obviously male.

So I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Serena.
We are not moulded, we are born the way we are in my opinion.

Unfortunately, we are moulded. If that werent the case we wouldnt be having this conversation. But I do agree that u are born the way you are. I wouldnt be crossdressing if that werent the case. It is a choice to crossdress however but that is simply something I do to express my inner female. Just like a woman going clothes shopping or getting a pedicure. I read on the gg forum one woman say she doesnt feel more femininevin a dress. Even though I understand that she feels feminine all the time I dont believe her. If that were the case no woman would ever wear high heels or anything sexy for that matter. I was merely stating that if two children stood side by side in a picture one male, one female but both had long hair and a dress on, and no facial expression, u would find it hard to tell which one was a boy because we all kinda start off the same

[Dawn cd]

Christina, if you're really interested in the answer to this question, then I suggest you explore it with a therapist. Because it doesn't matter what everyone here thinks, it only matters what you think and feel.

[ChristinaXOXO]

@Candice. Again, yes it's the genitals that determine one's sex however, genitals cannot only be the factor of determining one's sex.

@Laura. Thanks for sharing Laura! PM If you want to talk about anything.

@Serena. "So for arguments sake, u are saying that if a man has srs and feels he is a woman and is sexually attracted to men, he would still be homosexua, even though technically he is a womanl." And this is what confuses me.

@Dawn. Thank you for your suggestion Dawn. It actually does matter to me to some degree about what other people here thinks because, I like hearing other people's opinions. It helps me reflect my train of thought and to have a better understanding. By now, I'm probably sure what I think and feel.

I would just like to thank everyone for their replies. It's really helped me answer my old and new questions that I've always been wondering about. If there is anything you would like to privately discuss, please feel free to PM me.

Christina.

[serena33]

@Serena. So do you believe that you are bisexual? Also you sound more like you'd be into lady boys.

@Mary. Thanks for link. It was a very good read and a lot of information to absorb.

@Linda. Thank you for your insight. I am positive I will never have sex with another male. However, it's been fantasized while in enfemme to be curious about it.

I suppose I am bisexual even though it is my feminine side and would prefer to be dressed in lingerie and forms so I can at least feel like I look feminine as men are visual creatures. I wish I could snap my fingers when I want to be feminine and actually "be" a girl when I wanted and snap them again for when I want to be male. I dont think ill ever have srs but my feminine side really wants to be expressed more and more. Ive just recently started going out dressed. A couple times now. I dont quite have the voice down and I have really broad shoulders. Not goldberg but the shape is kinda there. Other than that, I feel I look pretty good and have been told I could be passable but thats through pictures. And everyone can take at least one fantastic picture in their lifetime. Its getting to where I just cant take it and want to go out regardless of what ppl think. But dont want to get beaten obviously...lol. but would really love to pass and avoid all that

As far as being into lady boys, maybe...I think it would be fun to have fellow friends who share my passions and dressing and go out together and do each others makeup and what not and just be girls and if it were the right person and the moment arose perhaps it could lead to something sexual but generally I want to be the only girl with a guy. And want to be the only guy with a girl. Maybe its hippocritical and difficult to understand but we each have our own views passions and desires and I respect everyone elses because of it

[Sonya]

The following YouTube video might be interesting for this discussion, I personally quite enjoyed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xXAoG8vAyzI#t=138


ChristinaXOXO, I think you are on the right track with your thoughts. I pretty much stopped thinking too much about labels. I realise labels are somewhat necessary to explain our selves to others and indeed to ourselves, but as you already found out most people just don’t fit into a nice neat package.

[ChristinaXOXO]

Loved the video! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

[Sonya]

Glad that you enjoyed it, I think you will be just fine. Your generation is quite lucky with all the available information and it seems like you have the curiosity to do your research and educate yourself. Sometimes you just have to accept that there is no correct answer to some questions and why we do what we do. You are still young, you will make mistakes and hopefully you can learn from them as quick as possible, some things can only be learned by living them. I hope you can find your acceptance and inner peace sooner then later

[Candice Mae]

@Candice. Again, yes it's the genitals that determine one's sex however, genitals cannot only be the factor of determining one's sex.
Christina.

Well then I guess cats are dogs and blue is now green.... Day is night, up is down, its opposite day!

Sex or gender is a determination based on ones genitals, saying there a different way is logical. While we are at it might as well start measuring distance in KPa as well as Km, just does not compute...

[Sonya]

Sex or gender is a determination based on ones genitals,

Okay I am no expert but I think it is bit more than that. Let’s face it, it doesn’t matter how many surgical operations you undertake and hormones you take, you will never be same as a born genetic female in anatomical way. Saying that we can not underestimate the power of the brain and its role in gender identity. It is all related but we are getting little bit away from the original topic therefore please take this as my 2 cents on this and I will stop here.

[mary something]

great video! Like Dawn said what matters is how you feel about yourself. If your natural inclinations and desires cause you turmoil when you consider how it reflects upon your identity then you should see a therapist to examine the feelings of guilt or confusion to help resolve them. You only live once and you deserve the best life possible

[Jenniferathome]

...I love women and I am attracted to them. Even when I'm in enfemme, I still am attracted to them to point where I fantasize of having sex with them. Does this make me a lesbian during enfemme?

And if I wanted to have sex with a man while enfemme would I be considered gay or bisexual?

1) No. You can't be a lesbian unless you are a woman. Clothing does not make you a woman.

2) Yes. Having sex with a man means gay or bi. Again, clothing does not make you a woman.

Next?

[mary something]

2) Yes. Having sex with a man means gay or bi. Again, clothing does not make you a woman.

Next?

The original question wasn't about actions but about the desire to have sex with a man that only manifests itself when in femme. Are you saying that someone who has never desired a man before in their entire life if they dress en femme for the first time and think "hey it might be nice to have sex with a man as a woman" then they are gay or bi?

I've never known a gay man who only feels an attraction to another man when they are en femme.

[Jenniferathome]

Exactly Mary. Openly gay men do not need an excuse to be who they are. A closeted or repressed gay/bi man, however, uses cross dressing as some way to justify that they are still straight. As if clothing makes them female. It does not.

[mary something]

I'm certainly not an expert on gay men, however there is someone very close to me who I have known my entire life and they are a closeted gay man... they have never felt the desire to be en femme nor does their desires only crystallize when dressed. He has actually never dressed in his entire life and is actually a rather masculine person. Most of the gay men I know are actually probably more masculine than the average hetero dude. You have your flamers who might have some effeminacy in their mannerisms but if you get to know them they are happily men usually and if they have sex with someone it is as a man with another man.

A closeted gay man struggles with a lot of issues but dressing typically doesn't enter the picture sweetie.

[Taylor186]

Understanding the Complexities of Gender: Sam Killermann at TEDxUofIChicago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRcPXtqdKjE

[jenni_xx]

of course they didn't answer because they don't have a gender anymore, or an identity, or a consciousness. Because gender is in the brain where our identity rests.

Hang on. You created that hypothetical scenario. But the only reason they didn't answer is not because they don't have a gender anymore. It's because they are brain dead, and thus incapable of answering. Ergo, your "experiment", even hypothetically, proves nothing one way or the other.

You ask whether a man loses his genitalia in an accident is still a man. Well, he's not a woman because he's lost his genitalia in an accident, put it that way. It's an accident, and if anyone was to go through such an horrific ordeal, and be met on the otherside by people (such as the people you know) saying that he is no longer a man, then I personally wouldn't want anything to do with such literal, brutal people.

You say you see manhood or womanhood as absolute. Isn't that completely at odds at what you are saying in regards to the brain controlling gender? How can it ever be absolute if we reduce to an individual's brain? The answer is simply that it can't be.

In a later post of yours, you say you are not an expert on gay men, then proceed to cite examples of gay men that you know. I have to ask, why even bother citing such examples? What point are you trying to make? That the gay men you know act in a certain way, but because you're not an expert then it's immaterial what the gay men (who you do know) are like. For one very obvious reason. They are not symptomatic of gay men. They are individuals who happen to be gay men. So please, let's not bracket people together in such a way - it's insulting. I say that as a gay man myself. And believe me, it is incredibly insulting. I am as different to the next gay man as a straight man is different to another straight man. Yet here you are, citing stereotypes (even if only inadvertently). It's insulting to read you write the word "flamers", it's insulting to read you write that some of the gay men you know are more macho than straight men (as if it is something that needs to be pointed out).

And more to the point, if a gay man is closeted, and you yourself are not gay, then you have no affiliation or understanding of such a person. Thus you are in absolutely no position to state what it is that a closeted gay man struggles with.

So stop speaking for such people.

[mary something]

You say you see manhood or womanhood as absolute. Isn't that completely at odds at what you are saying in regards to the brain controlling gender? How can it ever be absolute if we reduce to an individual's brain? The answer is simply that it can't be.


I could have chosen my words better, what I meant is that manhood and womanhood is the only two ways that we have to measure gender. These are absolute because it is universally recognized. Gender is in the brain, it is biological and is measured by expression of the individuals personality. Watch the video that Taylor posted of the Ted talk, Killerman states the exact same sentiment I was trying to make in a different and more eloquent way. Those are the two scales that are used to measure gender, although what that expression looks like varies from culture to culture and throughout time of course. In every culture girls learn how to become women and boys learn how to become men in a culturally-appropriate context. Not everyone is comfortable with this of course because we are all individuals. For example a biological male in our culture who has an innate need to express feminine gender to some degree might create an online persona on this website and wear fake breasts, create amazing cleavage, insist on being called Jennifer or Mary, and express themselves in a way that is understood by everyone as that of a type of womanhood.

As for what I wrote about gay men, I was trying to distinguish between sexual identity and gender identity. I'm sorry if you found the word flamer insulting, it certainly wasn't meant in that way yet I think that the word is a universally understood way of describing a segment of biological males with a certain blend of sexual identity and gender expression. If there is a better way of communicating this concept that isn't hurtful I would be happy to change how I express this. I've been called that myself, perhaps it was the salmon pants I loved in high school, or the word choice I used and my personal expression. I wasn't insulted by it more so than the fact that I didn't like being called this becuase it mislabeled me, my sexual orientation did not fit this label and for social reasons I didn't want this misunderstanding between me and potential sexual partners.

My point wasn't about saying all gay men are the same, I was trying to make the same point that you are making that if you know one gay person that is all you know, one gay person. This was in response to Jennifer saying that someone whose gender expression causes them to have an identity online with a female body, female name, female pronouns, and all that stuff asserting that this person if they even think about having sex with a biological male while they are a woman then they are automatically a gay man with the important caveat that this person does not feel ANY attraction to men otherwise this specific fantasy.

There are MANY accounts of people who have personally talked about his on these forums who have felt this feeling but through experimentation have learned that it isn't their sexual orientation causing this feeling because when they followed through on this impulse they were not happy with the outcome. It was a crossdresser fantasy, a desire born out of a need for more gender expression than they were currently getting. That is why it is important to discern between fantasizing about a male proxy or a specific male.

Her assertion seemed to me a blatant example of confusing gender identity, expression, and sexual identity in a manner that would cause stress to the OP having to deal with whether a certain label fit her or not.

Labels such as gay, straight, hetero, or homo are best used as adjectives, not nouns. Milton Diamond is well respected in his field and this is (as far as I know) his original assertion and my opinion is influenced by his writing because it best fits what I have experienced in this world.

As for saying that if I myself am not gay then I can't have any affiliation or understanding of a gay man? Are you serious? I questioned seriously if I was gay or not at one point in my life, how would I have ever figured out if I was or wasn't if it is impossible for me to have any understanding of what a gay man is lol. Don't pull the gay card on me sweetie :)

[jenni_xx]

Mary - you keep returning to the same assertion of yours - that gender is in the brain. That isn't an "absolute" fact.

You can justify your use of words all day long. It's something that everyone will do in order to validate the actual point that they are intending to make. Yes - the word "flamer" is insulting, irrespective of whether you used it in an insulting way or not. But I applaud you for wanting to learn more and in turn choose words that are less hurtful. That really is a positive step.

Personally, I just get fed up with people who (even with the best intentions) feel that they are able to speak "for us". By "for us", I mean, a straight man saying how it is for gay men, or a non-cd saying how it is for cd's. The loudest, the most honest, the most valuable voice will always always come from within. From a gay man himself. Or from a cd him (or rather her) self). For it's only through such people who actually experience it (and live their own lives through it) that we can ascribe any value.

I am a gay man. I am a crossdresser. But I'm not a woman, so I'll never ever know what it is that fully encompasses being a woman. Ergo I will never ever speak for them. Equally, I do not know what it is like to be a transsexual, because I'm not one, so I will never ever speak for them. A closeted gay man I have been, but even then I long ago realised that my circumstances are completely different to the next closeted gay man. Just as my experiences as an openly gay man are completely different from the next openly gay man.

The point I'm making is that we can only ever speak for ourselves. There are no stereotypes in this regard. My point is that we are all individuals, and as individuals we all deserve to be treated individually.

Your point is that gender resides in the brain. I don't agree with you. That doesn't make me right. Nor does it make your assertion right. For me, personally, it's far more complex than that. For me, personally, I do agree with Candice. For the way I interpret Candice's comments is that she's just using words in order to best get across her point. Your stance (in my opinion) is to pick up on semantics - that is to use the words she is using to debate her point. But in my opinion the point still stands - semantics should never ever get in the way of that.

Just to add to my post - knowing one gay person is no different to knowing one straight person. People are not, nor should ever be, defined by their sexuality. If person X among your friends is straight, you would never ever dream of using him/her as an example of a straight person that you happen to know. Similarly you should never do the same with regards to someone you know to be gay.

And people who do that, are insulting. For they are judging us, not on who we are or what we mean to you as an individual. But judging us on our sexuality. And that is wrong.

[mary something]

Where is gender if not the brain? I've come to this conclusion because the most learned of experts assert this. Biological and medical knowledge confirm this. There are documented medical case histories of people that confirm this issue. Plus it makes sense of my life and experiences also. Perhaps the general scientific and medical conclusions about this are wrong, it's possible. That leaves the question of where does gender originate? It isn't measured by how we look, or our body shape, it is determined by expression. Movement, response to stimuli, patterns of behavior that fall into the absolute measuring sticks of masculine or feminine.

You can dismiss this as semantics but I'm not sure what you mean exactly?


Just to add to my post - knowing one gay person is no different to knowing one straight person. People are not, nor should ever be, defined by their sexuality. If person X among your friends is straight, you would never ever dream of using him/her as an example of a straight person that you happen to know. Similarly you should never do the same with regards to someone you know to be gay.

And people who do that, are insulting. For they are judging us, not on who we are or what we mean to you as an individual. But judging us on our sexuality. And that is wrong.

I agree believe it or not lol :). Jennifer asserting that a gender variant person who has the desire to possibly have sex with a man but ONLY when en femme automatically means that they are a gay male is (to me) an example of exactly what you speak of in different terms of course but the use of inappropriate labels is still there.

I agree that people shouldn't be defined by their sexuality to some degree, that is why I've said over and over in this thread that words that describe sexual orientation are only to be used as adjectives, not nouns

[Jamsey]

I could care less about labels. When I'm out dressed, and I'm asked if I'm gay, I say, no, I'm straight, or at least as straight as I can be dressed the way I am. If the conversation continues to the point of asking if I could be gay, I say, well, it depends, I haven't met the person yet who can trip my trigger, if you know what I mean.

[jenni_xx]

Where is gender if not the brain? I've come to this conclusion because the most learned of experts assert this. Biological and medical knowledge confirm this. There are documented medical case histories of people that confirm this issue. Plus it makes sense of my life and experiences also. Perhaps the general scientific and medical conclusions about this are wrong, it's possible. That leaves the question of where does gender originate? It isn't measured by how we look, or our body shape, it is determined by expression. Movement, response to stimuli, patterns of behavior that fall into the absolute measuring sticks of masculine or feminine.

You can dismiss this as semantics but I'm not sure what you mean exactly?

So it's not your conclusion then. You're basing your conclusion on how you understand and interpret the works of others.

I think you will find that the most learned of experts all conclude that brain is where information is collected and deciphered (and in turn understood at a conscious level). By attempting to understand the word "gender" at this level is disingenous - gender, at it's most basic of understanding - that is, a word that communicates in language an identity ascribed to an individual, has its identification as a part of anatomy. Just as the words man, woman do (while the words masculine and feminine (for example) have an entirely different, separate connotation attached to them (these being behavioral traits, as opposed to innate identities).

But then anomalies occur - such as the external presentation of an individual not matching their internal thoughts.

[mary something]

So it's not your conclusion then. You're basing your conclusion on how you understand and interpret the works of others.......

By attempting to understand the word "gender" at this level is disingenous - gender, at it's most basic of understanding - that is, a word that communicates in language an identity ascribed to an individual, has its identification as a part of anatomy.



Well of course I'm basing my opinion on the thoughts, scientific research, documented medical case histories, and currently accepted knowledge of this. I'm not interpreting anything, Milton Diamond, Sam Killerman, and lots of other experts say that gender is in the brain and biological sex is determined by genitalia. All knowlege is advanced on the backs of our forefathers so of course we should take advantage of all the work that other people have put into this.

I think where we really disagree is perhaps that gender has it's id as a part of anatomy. What genitalia someone has is their biological sex. Seriously, watch the video please.

[jenni_xx]

You are interpreting it though - that's something we all do - digest and interpret the information made available to us.

No matter. You can name as many people as you like. So can I to counter the view that you have that you believe other people are putting forward. But to do so is a futile exercise. For example, you ask me to watch the videos while not actually knowing whether I have or not. In other words, you're making an assumption.

Without wanting to appear rude, but I'm done with this conversation. For it's achieving nothing other than going round in circles. But I would like to thank you anyway for a civil discussion. Kudos and all the best to you :)

[mary something]

Thank you to for a civil discussion :). These topics have an application in the cases of babies that are born with ambiguous or incomplete genitalia. What science and medicine has found out is that it is impossible to predict what the gender of a child is until they get older irregardless of what their genitalia are. This was discovered because for a long time boys would be surgically assigned as females if their genitals were incomplete or damaged.

Science can not ethically test humans to learn this type of info, however it has inadvertantly been done in the past and the info is there.

I am quite insistent on this because I am an example of someone whose gender and biological sex do not match.

Best to you too, smile often cause you have a great smile :)

[ReineD]

Sex or gender is a determination based on ones genitals ...

It's more complex than that. Sexual characteristics [primary (genitals), and secondary (beard, breasts, musculature, general body size, etc)] are different and separate from gender identity. But, there are three components to overall "GENDER": sexual characteristics, gender identity, and gender role and/or expression.

There are 4 major groups of people:

1. Cisgender (everything matches) = sexual characteristics + gender identity + all the time gender role and/or expression.

2. Crossdresser = sexual characteristics DO match gender identity, but DO NOT occasionally match gender role and/or expression.

3. Gender Fluid (or BG, DG, gender non/conforming, etc) = mixed gender identity and gender role and/or expression, no matter the sexual characteristics.

4. Transsexual (TS) = sexual characteristics DO NOT match gender identity AND gender role and/or expression, until surgery.


As to sexual preference, I think it's just simpler to say that one is either female attracted, or male attracted, or attracted to both (bi), or attracted to neither (asexual), or in the case of autogynephilics attracted to the self dressed as the opposite sex.


I read on the gg forum one woman say she doesnt feel more femininevin a dress. Even though I understand that she feels feminine all the time I dont believe her. If that were the case no woman would ever wear high heels or anything sexy for that matter.

I just want to clarify.

We don't dress in order to feel feminine. We dress in different ways based on what we want to accomplish. When we dress in sweats or jeans it's generally because we want to feel comfy. When we dress in a particularly sexy manner, it's generally because we want to appeal to the opposite sex. When we dress in a power suit it's generally because we want to make an impression at work or other similar circumstances. We do feel feminine no matter what we put on, because we simply are.

There are of course masculine women who wouldn't be caught dead in anything feminine (think adult tom-boys). But these women are not the norm.

[ChristinaXOXO]

@Jennifer. I disagree. I don't think I'm gay or bi if I have sex with a male while enfemme (I probably won't act on it.) When I'm in drab mode, the thought of having sex with a man causes discomfort to the point where I'm disgusted. I'm mainly attracted to females at all times.

@Taylor. Thanks for sharing the video! I really enjoyed it and was very interesting :)

@Mary and Jenni. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and discussions :)

@Jamsey. Thank you for sharing lol! I know what you mean haha.

@Reine. Thanks for shedding on the gender topic! I understand a bit now.

[Jenniferathome]

@Jennifer. I disagree. I don't think I'm gay or bi if I have sex with a male while enfemme...

Humm...a man having sex with a man. Right, my mistake.

[ReineD]

I don't think I'm gay or bi if I have sex with a male while enfemme (I probably won't act on it.)

Here's something you might want to consider.

You THINK you might be attracted to a male when dressed. And, you KNOW that they disgust you in guy mode. The explanation is simple: you are not really attracted to men no matter how you're dressed and you'd likely not enjoy it if your fantasy were to come true and you found yourself in bed with a man while dressed. This is because you are rather attracted to the FANTASY of yourself as a beautiful, sexy woman who is capable of exciting men. So in your fantasies, the man is just there as a prop and he is usually faceless. This is why it is all so confusing.

Yes, there are CDers who are genuinely gay or bi, but these CDers tend to enjoy men while they are in guy mode too, unless their fantasy of being a sexy woman is beyond powerful. There are different degrees of the love of oneself as a woman.

[Tracii G]

Like Reine its the fantasy aspect for you nothing more.
Sexual preference is the same if you are dressed enfemme or not.
If you want to have sex with a man then go ahead but call yourself bi after you do it and don't claim to be heterosexual.
Sounds to me like you want to have an excuse to have sex with a man but are afraid to admit it.
Call me crazy but thats what it smells like.And my guess you will still want to argue about your sexuality about after the fact.

[NathalieX66]

I agree with Reine......nice one!:thumbsup:

[mary something]

Humm...a man having sex with a man. Right, my mistake.

You keep only using sexual orientation to describe something that very much has to do with a comingling of gender expression, gender identity, and a little bit of sexual orientation. I understand that keeping things this black and white does have a certain sense of security with it, but it's like trying to solve a calculus problem using euclidean geometry cause it simply doesn't give enough accuracy.

May I propose a question to think about?

If someone has an online persona that is female, goes by the name Mary, chooses very feminine hair and clothing, and identifies as a woman would you consider that person a bonafide straight man who is strictly heterosexual if they've never had sex with a man and much prefers to be in a relationship with a woman?

I don't lol, I personally gravitate to the word queer but that's just me maybe.

Is it really possible to keep all the heteronormative cis privilige and be a "straight hetero man" if we are living a life where we have at least a female alter ego and such?

If not then doesn't it seem that trying to define orientation in these terms just doesn't work really? The whole point is to learn about yourself so we can live the best life possible, the last thing the OP needs to worry about is whether they are gay or straight it seems to me.

[Jenniferathome]

Mary, that is not the scenario presented by the OP, to which I responded.

[LilSissyStevie]

A better way to look at the sexual orientation question is to look at it like a FetLife fetish list rather then trying to categorize yourself. You don't have to call it anything and there is no need to explain it with a bunch of psychobabble. I tried, it doesn't work and ultimately there's no point.

[AmiFL]

I consider myself a hetero-sexual crossdressing male and loving seeing myself as an attractive woman. Although I have not dressed in a while I miss the feel of slipping into my feminine persona. One thing though, I have made some CD friends on line and we chat regularly. We have chatted about the opportunity of being with another cd while dressed...... if the chance ever occurred and the stars were aligned just right ( and there was the right amount of wine --giggle--) the girl inside might emerge to the surface.

[Desirae]

You can put me down for one who believes that chromosomes are what defines us as either a man or a woman. I bet there are plenty of cases of women who were born without ovaries, the absence of which does not mean they are not women. The essence of gender is much deeper than male or female genitalia. SRS only results in a change of gender identity, not gender. Even "identity" is not the right word in the previous statement. Not everyone needs SRS to fulfill their gender identity. Maybe the right word doesn't exist. I think all of the confusion exists because there are multiple interactions at play in making you who you are. There's a complicated interaction between various "pieces" of you that make you whoever you are. I can understand that trans girls feel like women, that they have always been women and that they need to have their bodies match what they feel they are. However, I don't believe that, even with SRS, trans women are women. They are transsexuals. The XY chromosomes are still there. If you're born female at birth, you're female. If born male, you're male. How you feel inside is a different story.

[mary something]

Actually Desirae hormones and srs arent used to change someone's gender identity. They change the physical sex of someone to approximately that of a woman who has had a hysterectomy or maybe a woman like you mentioned that was born with out ovaries who would have been prescribed the same hrt a transwoman would be prescribed.

The word you are searching for is physical sex, meaning what your bits are like and whether you have a woman's body or a mans, not gender identity. Your gender identity isn't something that can be surgically changed unless you're willing to undergo a lobotomy.

There are women who were born women who have xy genes ya know. google androgen insensitivity and look at the pics tab if you don't believe me. Every baby starts out as female, even you were female at a very early point in your development. Crazy, huh?

[Lorileah]

Just to clear something up here, you don't start out female. You are XX or Xy or XXy or XyX or whatever from the start. The embryo of both male and female appear the same early on, but hormones drive physical change.

[Thom2332]

I consider myself straight but I am very open-minded and with the right person and circumstances would be willing to try anything once.

[ChristinaXOXO]

Yes, there are CDers who are genuinely gay or bi, but these CDers tend to enjoy men while they are in guy mode too, unless their fantasy of being a sexy woman is beyond powerful. There are different degrees of the love of oneself as a woman.

I agree. Perhaps my fantasy of being a sexy woman is quite strong and I loving my own self-image when enfemme.

@Tracii. It's only a fantasy, I honestly don't think I'm going to act on it.

Thank you for all your thoughts everyone :)

[sometimes_miss]

So, Christina, could it be simply be summed up like this: You want the girl, but you also feel like you're supposed to be, and behave as, a girl.

and, also, THERE IT IS.

We don't dress in order to feel feminine. We dress in different ways based on what we want to accomplish. When we dress in sweats or jeans it's generally because we want to feel comfy. When we dress in a particularly sexy manner, it's generally because we want to appeal to the opposite sex. When we dress in a power suit it's generally because we want to make an impression at work or other similar circumstances. We do feel feminine no matter what we put on, because we simply are.

So very, very often women deny that when they dress up in sexually appealing attire, they are not doing so to attract men. I keep reading such things as, 'we do it because we want to look good in general; we do it because we want to be in fashion; we do it because we don't want to be outshown by other women we work with; we do it because, well, women give lots of reasons to deny that they dress in sexy clothes in order to be sexually attractive to anyone, whether male or female. Yet, right there is the contradiction to all those women, from one of the brightest women I read. Thanks for confirming what I've been trying to explain for such a long, long time, Reine.

[Confucius]

The way it works for me is: Stage 1 Early Childhood. As a very young child you want to feel loved by your mother. You may be a sensitive young child, always needing your mother's approval. You develop a sort of female envy. You may believe that girls have it better in life. Or, you may believe that your mother would love you more if you were a girl. Or, you may believe that girls are preferred by society because they are prettier, and smarter. Or, you may believe that male figures are bad, while female role models are virtuous. All that matters in this stage is that you develop some sort of female envy. Your brain becomes hard-wired to over value the female side.

Stage 2 begins with puberty. Testosterone is taking over your life. You discover that just touching some feminine clothing gives you a thrill. So you experiment with cross-dressing and your whole body is shaking. Your first experience is a tremendously stimulating experience and you are immediately addicted. What is going on is your brain is hard-wired to interpret cross-dressing as actual contact with a female. So your brain releases dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and other neurotransmitters that produce sensations of well-being, pleasure, sexual gratification and bonding. It affects the reward centers of your brain, instant gratification, and thus it mimics the addiction response. This stage goes on for a long time, and it is sexually arousing and pleasurable.

As we get older and our testosterone levels drop then the person begins to describe the cross-dressing experience as non-sexual. Now it is about reducing stress, comfort, belonging, and we feel as if we are just understanding ourselves. However, it all goes back to our early childhood and our innocent attraction to feminine articles and the sense that girls were special.

It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, straight or gay. It's about how a childhood perception becoming a personal reality in adulthood.

[ChristinaXOXO]

So, Christina, could it be simply be summed up like this: You want the girl, but you also feel like you're supposed to be, and behave as, a girl.

That sounds about right.

@Confucius. I think you're right on the female envying part. You're quit spot on. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[TessaOKC]

My father was horrible, mean and gone by the time I was six. Growing up I wanted to be accepted by a male so badly. It wasn't until my first true sexual experience with a male I realized that the "Male Acceptance" was very nicely satisified in the bedroom. Plus I was attracted to men to begin with!!! Anyway, my two cents!!

[JennyLynn]

You are me, but a lot younger! I am a man who is not attracted to men. I am a woman who is attracted to women, regardless of their physical...let's say...plumbing. I have never looked at a man and thought......Hot guy! Take time to figure things out, buf realize you will face a struggle! Due dilligence is my best advice.

[steph9]

Obviously there is a spectrum of where you would land...for me I am very much attracted to women, but at the same time when I cross dress I want to me like those women I admire. I don't necessarily look at men and thing wow they are super hot.... but I want a man to look at me that way and desire me, and that to me attracts me to a man. As I got older, I found myself more and more attracted to men sexually... I still consider myself bi though... I feel like women are more beautiful, but sexually I like men

[Vermouth4u]

Hi there Confucius! I starting to read your post and found myself nodding my head in agreement. Envy, yes! biological girls have the power! and sadly I don't. My inner she often rages at BG's that fail to delight in their femininity. How dare they not value being a lovely, sweet and sensuous female! What no jewellery? no make up? and you're wearing beige trousers!? Where is your tight little black dress, black hose, super heels or nail colour. What are you thinking? Why on earth waste all that magic gifted to you at birth. The power to enchant and bewitch a man. To make them go weak, to give them extra strength. Have them worship and protect you, like Delilah. You need you're head examining, girl! How would you like to come over for drinks and nibbles we can exchange thoughts, relax and chill. I can help put things right for you. Wouldn't that be so nice!

[ChristinaXOXO]

Due dilligence is my best advice.

I'm glad we can relate. Thanks for the advice Jen!

[Marissa V]

i just want to trow in my 2 cents...

Im in the process of going through all examinations to start HRT, and my doctor explained that with HRT the sexual preference CAN change. Nobody says it will, but its a possibility. Wich got me thinking about my own preferences... And eventually you come to one conclusion...if it changes it changes...so what? And i know that in itself has nothing to do with the OP but it raised a question in my mind when reading the OP.... why does it matter what you 'feel' when dressed? Arent we a kind of people that live by the rule 'if the shoe fits...wear it' ?
But, there is one other thing...might be i read it wrong...but i see 2 things mixed that are totaly different... Feeling the need CD is something that has to do with WHO you are, identity...sexual orientation is something different entirely... Can one influence the other? Sure! But thats doesnt make them the same kind of 'issue'

edit: this is written with the idea in mind that your CDing is because you want to feel-become-emulate women.... If it is PURELY to enhance the sexual ideas the whole dynamic of the problem changes, but if that is the case, thats it is done purely out of sexual needs...then i think you need to take a good hard and honest look at your orientation.

[ChristinaXOXO]

this is written with the idea in mind that your CDing is because you want to feel-become-emulate women.... If it is PURELY to enhance the sexual ideas the whole dynamic of the problem changes, but if that is the case, thats it is done purely out of sexual needs...then i think you need to take a good hard and honest look at your orientation.

My CDing is partially because I want to feel-become-emulate women and at the same time having sexual desires or sexual needs.