The pressure to conform (on this very board!)

[Mink]

i'm a male... and a crossdresser... hey that's what this forum is for!

i like wearing women's clothing...

i don't really dig the whole make up / shaving / wig thing...

people on here like to pretend and say Hey that's okay man we're all different!

BUT ...say i wanted to post a pic of me wearing a cute dress or whatnot...

i have a beard... and leg hair... and shorter hair

most would NOT be okay with this...

most would just be cool and not respond but man i don't quite get this

i mean i do (in one sense) ... it just looks Goofy or WRONG

but let me tell you a little something something

that's what your average person would think of someone who goes the whole hog!

why the hypocrisy?

just let me be me!

and others like me!

dammit!


it tears me up inside!

gender duck!

[Eryn]

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." [Eleanor Roosevelt]

Some have said that 6'+ girls like me can't go out. Do I let that stop me? Nope, I just head out anyway.

I happen to like being smooth, but if you like having a beard that is fine too. Enjoy the pleasure of being you!

BTW, please don't paint the entire forum with the same brush because of a few naysayers.

[CarlaWestin]

I've seen posters here that are gender queer such as yourself. I really don't think you should concern yourself with any perceived hierarchy as it's nice just to havea forum to post to period. I certainly haven't seen any posts denouncing any particular flavor here so I believe your angst is a little inflated or a response to unrelated tension or stress.

But, I might be wrong.

[Wildaboutheels]

Some folks here will resolutely maintain that there is a right or wrong way to do this CDing "thing".

And/or that an obvious MAN should not wear any obvious female clothing items out in public but it's OK at home...

Just their opinion and ONLY their opinion. So don't let it bother you in the least.

The FACT is obvious. "Partial dresser" CDers in public are THE very people who will make it more acceptable for ALL Cders as time goes on because they ARE so easily spotted. [as opposed to the folks who do everything within their power to PASS] Which comes down to trying to "fool people" when you get right down to it unless they are transitioning.

There is no right or wrong way to CD whether at home or in public. The important thing in public is to NOT slink around like a criminal or treat people badly when "dressed". I always treat people right when out and about no matter what I am wearing and I have yet to have even one bad experience in over 12 years.

[Julie Gaum]

Last I saw there were 64 posts on a similar OP yesterday. There were posts with both view points --- that we will never be accepted by "society" if we don't look and act like our feminine selves and age-dress accordingly and others point out that CDs are all different just like the diversity found in either gender, differences
within races and nationalities --- express yourself without restictions. Fully expect that if one is "way out", "different" from those who encounter you, you will elicit
varied responses that generally doesn't show acceptance. On this Forum there are no set rules so if you feel pressure to conform --- that's your own doing.
By the way there are no "average" persons out there judging CDs as being Wrong --- non-Cders see nothing unusual, see something different but care less, or see something different and react by gesture, vocally or physically; so pick where you want to be on the spectrum --- solely your choice.
Julie

[Mink]

I've seen posters here that are gender queer such as yourself. I really don't think you should concern yourself with any perceived hierarchy as it's nice just to havea forum to post to period. I certainly haven't seen any posts denouncing any particular flavor here so I believe your angst is a little inflated or a response to unrelated tension or stress.

But, I might be wrong.

yes i guess i went a bit too full force / focus on the few naysayers!

sorry! it's just the picture threads and boy mode vs girl mode thread and i get a bit miffed at feeling discluded (and maybe a bit jealous! i mean how could i not!) ... but i remember looking at one picture thread where some guy didn't shave his legs and like every single comment was about how he just HAD to shave his legs...

it's like... uh... no he doesn't!

let him do what he wants!

jesus!

[Glenda58]

Go ahead and do what you want post a pic of how you want to look. I was just like you 30 yrs ago. I changed over time most of us do some do not. So be yourself we all been there at one time or another.

[Marleena]

That was a pretty cool rant there, Mink.:) We come in all different flavors on this board. What appeals to you might not to me. My own peer group has given me some grief at times but WTH it's different viewpoints. Oh and some of the posters in the Picture Gallery do nothing but post pictures and contribute nothing else to the forum.

[Marcelle]

Well said Mink,

There is no right or wrong way to CD and this goes to another post about how we present ourselves to society as a whole. Each of us must strive to be true to ourselves and not others and be good and decent folk while we do so. If your thing is dressing in a skirt with hairy legs and beard and are comfortable inside your home or out to world . . . that is your thing. Embrace it and show the world that CDers are just that, good and decent people who just happen to not conform to what society is expecting. It is not for each of us to pave the way for the whole community but to be happy with ourselves as we are. Goodness we come under enough scrutiny without us turning on each other.

However, I do agree that the naysayers are few on this forum and for the most part we are supportive of all our sisters/brothers who chose where they fall in the TG spectrum. I for one choose to dress en femme because it feels right for me, but that is me. Each has to choose her/his own way.

Hugs

Isha

[AmyGaleRT]

As much as I may try to "set a good example" for myself and my sisters, I wouldn't try to limit anyone's way of expressing themselves. I only control and speak for myself in that regard.

Similarly, as much as I enjoy being able to go out en femme, I don't want to force anyone else to do so. We all have to overcome that barrier in our own minds, and some of us may not even be inclined to do so.

I recently saw an interesting blog, His Black Dress (http://www.hisblackdress.com/), by a guy who enjoys wearing skirts and dresses (even in public!), but decidedly does not present femme, nor does he claim to be TG. Have a look; he wears his outfits quite well. (I would enjoy wearing some of those myself! Of course, I'd wear them as part of a femme presentation, but that's my choice to do so, in fitting with my personal concept of myself.)

Not to worry, Mink. Ultimately, your life is your own to lead, regardless of what anyone might say.

- Amy

[Lucy_Bella]

I have to think that a few keep those walls up, you know the ones.. Those who find it impossible to believe that others dress for different reasons..I have no desires to be a girl and I do not want to be preceived as a girl especially in public...

Some see that as a growing issue with my cding and claim they themselves have been where I am at.. While it may be true with some it's not always the case.. I feel understanding from all with respect of each other because no one likes rejection we all know how it feels ..Who are we to reject our own when we are rejected ourselves ,stick together stand by each other ..Now there's a prospective ..

[Alice Torn]

No thought police aloud in the old America. We each have a right to present as we wish, barring exposing our privates. You have more guts than i got!

[Gillian Gigs]

I like to refer to myself as a lazy CD'er, not that I have read the book, or follow its thoughts. I wear what I want which is usually bra, cami, panties, skirt, and some type of hoses, or leggings. I almost never wear make up, wig, or form inserts. Most tops are loose fitting guy tops, or sweaters. My shoes are comfortable, which means that they are rarely heels. So what should I care what others think. If you find unaccepting pr!*ks in the world out there, you can and do find them here also. It makes me think about how someone would take their ball and bat and go home if you didn't play the game by their rules. SO WHAT! Enjoy yourself and make friends with those who have similar tastes as you. I accept you and am willing to be your nonjudging friend. I find it rather funny that even CD'ers can and still do get into pi$$ing contests with each other. Just don't do it into the wind. LOL

[Michelle789]

There is no right or wrong way to CD. If you feel like being a guy in a dress, or other feminine clothing, that's fine. If you just wish to carry a woman's handbag while dressed as a guy, that's fine too.

If you want to pass as a woman in public, that's fine too. I don't think the desire to pass is necessarily "fooling" anyone as much as it is expressing a part of us that is female (or in some cases we are really women on the inside, but that would make you TS), and therefore we want to act and be treated as a girl.

If you wish to dress privately or go out in public, that's fine too.

If you go out in public, don't do anything whether dressed completely as a guy, partially CD'ed, or passing as a woman, that you would regret. It doesn't matter how you're dressed, be it completely male, completely female, or in between. Doing something that would land you in jail, where you'll have to pay a fine, be labeled as rude, be branded as a racist or bigot, or where you'd make a complete fool of yourself, is going to make trouble regardless of how you're dressed. Being mean to people always has bad karma that comes back to bite you at some time in the future. The point is regardless of how you dress, always act polite and dignified. I always try to be on my best behavior when I go out as a guy, and when I do someday walk out in public en femme, I will act on my best behavior.

As for the naysayers, there are a small minority here. However, it only takes one naysayer to completely make you angry or to give you a negative perception of this forum. Sadly, a few bad apples do really spoil the bunch, or at least that's how we tend to perceive things.

[AllieSF]

Carla, you may not see direct comments denouncing how someone else dresses, but you will definitely see many posts by members here that continue to insist that how one dresses reflects negatively or positively back on our community as a whole. In those same comments they suggest that "one" should dress appropriately so as not to have a negative impact. That is, to me anyway, a very direct indirect way to put that peer pressure on those who do not conform. There is a current thread or two on that very topic. By saying that a bad presentation reflects negatively is the same as saying, "and please do not do that", if not why start that thread in the first place. Under those rules, someone who goes all the way and tries their best to blend in, and doesn't should stay at home too because they may offend someone's sense of style and what they think other can do.

My opinion has always been, dress and do what you want and live with the consequences. The rest of us will deal with the fallout, which in fact is minuscule if any. The more out there in all shapes and forms and presentations, over the long run, the better it is for all of us. The general populace will soon learn that the ones on the extreme, partial dressers with beards, fetish over the top sexy whatever's, and other styles are really in the minority and are also just as harmless as all the best dressed ones around here. We all have the right to do what we want and really do not need to hear our mother hens here tell us how to present ourselves.

We learn from our mistakes, and if they are not mistakes, then there just may be nothing to learn about that. We want our freedoms, so we need to give those same freedoms without restrictions to everyone else, regardless if we like their style or not. We have the "dress your age", "dress appropriately" and "your presentation can harm our community and our TS sisters or brothers" type threads several times a month. That tells me that for some people they feel strongly enough about those stated beliefs that they should bring them up on a very regular basis. That is peer pressure, trying to convince others to conform to their beliefs.

[linda allen]

It seems to me that you are demanding that everyone conform to your point of view so what's the difference. If I don't like your photo of a man in a dress, I just won't comment. What would you have me do, lie and say you look great?

[Allison_Leslie]

you are saying we would not be okay with us.. why don't you try first hon? REALLY! You are condemning us to not being supportive
yet you have not posted the pic yet.. Look.. Everyone here has already beat me to this post and said that we are all different
flavors of CD here and that's true. If that's all you want for your own experience then POST AWAY!! We wont judge! I did what you
did a few halloweens ago and kept my goatee while fully dressed and it was HILARIOUS fun!! But it awakened the need in ME at least
to try to pass, but that was for my own reasons and not for society AT ALL. I couldn't care any less what society thinks of me
I WILL do what I will do.

[Ressie]

I don't find bearded ladies attactive. But that doesn't mean one should conform to what the "majority" are doing. I had a beard or mustache during most of my life because that's what my gf liked. And it looks good on a man, but not on a crossdresser. JMHO, YMMV.

[RenneB]

I agree with the others. We come in all shapes and flavors. Post what you will within the rules and have at it. Be yourself. Remember, none of us get off this planet alive.... at least not in this timeline...

I'm just glad that this forum exists. For the longest time, I thought I was the only one in the world born this way. Now I've found many friends and am much more accepting of my lifestyle....

Renne.....

[Cynthia Anne]

Thank you Mink for giving ME something to think about! I for one do believe we are ALL equal! However do I always come off sounding that way? I do not know! I will be watching myself a little closer from now on! I'm not here to judge anyone! How could I" After all, I'm no better then anyone else!

[PretzelGirl]

We have always had members here who not only dress while still having a beard or mustache (I was there at one time), but there have been some that go out on the town. This is your life, not someone else's. And you should be able to do what you want. Anyone who doesn't like it can leave (and may get help doing that if they are too rude).

[Tracii G]

Mink do your own thing and be proud.
I get bashed on here by some for wearing womens clothes and presenting as a man does it stop me? No way.
Do I dress to as some call it "fool people"? No to that one too because I dress to please me and no one else.
Makes no difference to me if you have a beard and hairy legs and like to wear a dress.
What I'm saying is if "we" I mean the ones who do go out in public act with dignity and class thats what the public will see.
I do know there are a few here that feel that a few of us CDers don't measure up to their standards but hey I really don't care what they think.
Again be proud of being different!!

[Mink]

yes i do need to find pride in the difference and not let the few vocal minority bother me so much... i guess it just saddens me that i don't have myself as my avatar (and that shame or embarassment is MY issue alone) ... i one time went all the way and went out to a TG-friendly club and it felt very off for me... one CDer said to me "when you present like this... you are a woman!" and i thought "well gee i sure don't feel like a woman!" ... so there is that!

and i guess had i taken a pic or pics of me that night i'd have an avatar / thread material / etc ready to go... but then i'd just be reinforcing the same standard that one must conform to the CDer ideal!

there's this thought that as time goes on one WILL eventually turn to going fully enfemme with all that goes with it and until that happens you are just waiting for it to happen... maybe i will go down that path eventually in the coming years (who knows!)

it's just hard to find acceptance for what we do enough as it is without people of our own kind being very judgey!

this happened at that same TG-friendly club where i went there just in a dress with a beard and later that CDer i talked to said something along the lines of "one time i saw a guy here that was wearing a dress with a BEARD!" and i thought to myself... wait a minute... that was ME! oh god?

they acted like it was the most wrong thing!

even on here that phrase Dude in a Dress is like the ultimate insult!

[Karren H]

As much as I do attest to what's the correct way to crossdress.... in a very anti womens jeans way..... I could truly give a rats ass what anyone else wears except me! lol.... conformity... funny for a group that breaks all the rules.....

[Kelly DeWinter]

Mink;

You are being too hard on others and especially yourself, unless someone has written "Mink, you have to ...." then the only one who is putting pressure on you to conform is ... YOU ! . There are gals and guys here who dress all over the spectrum from beaded in skirts to 24/7 full on tg . Post what YOU like , how you like, sure there is a possibility you may me a minority within a minority, but hey it's about making yourself comfortable with yourself . You may find the occasional critique on some post, but in all you will find this to be probably the most diverse group on the web , with the exception to the Pastafarian Spaghetti Space Monster worshippers.

[PaulaQ]

There's nothing wrong with a genderqueer presentation, mink. (That's displaying some of both gender's characteristics.) However, you are right, there are some in the TG community who are almost as conformist to binary gender as the cisgendered folks.

The world is barely able to tolerate transgender where one presents as totally the opposite gender of their birth. genderqueer is kind of hard on the world - it pushes too many buttons at the same time I think, and people just overload.

Don't take it personally - you are ahead of the curve, that's all.

[Mink]

transgenderism is the new punk rock!

[LelaK]

Mink, you're sensitive, like me and other ladies, so you're okay. I suspect that you're much younger than I and numerous other of us. I feel like I don't fit in kuz I'm old and homely. We all want to fit in, i.e. be accepted/respected/appreciated.

So now I guess practical joker-type CD impersonators are going to come on here and complain about not being accepted, like us. (That thought comes from another thread from yesterday about manly CDs.)

I don't believe my sense of taste would be much bothered by a fairly attractive woman having unshaven legs or even a beard, but ... (bafflement prevents completing that thought).

I value my sense of aesthetics more than I value my self-acceptance (if by "self" I mean my appearance). So I don't accept my appearance as meeting my standard of beauty. However, I think makeup will likely help me meet it. So I hope to try that eventually. In the meantime I have higher priority pursuits than beauty to attend to, like truth and sharing.

[Beverley Sims]

What you experience is peer pressure.
Most do not have the same outlook you have.
If you wish to be an individualist that is your choice and if you post a picture of a man in a dress just accept the peer pressure comments you will get.
Others reading are like you and will appreciate the man with a beard in a dress.
So as long as you present neatly you should be right.
Do expect ridicule from less accepting onlookers though.

[Tina_gm]

my cding is completely private. I have never fully tranformed. I do it for comfort and to connect to my feminine side. It feels good and it works for me.

[docrobbysherry]

Mink, and others like u who lurk, here's how I think this forum, (which is made up of regular people, remember?), works:

1. We nearly all react negatively to someone who looks radically different.

When I first arrived here 6 years ago, (after 10 years dressing alone in a vacuum), I was shocked and aghast looking at the first photos of "men in dresses" I'd ever seen! They ALL looked so strange! And, they were all strangers.
I created Sherry just so I won't see a man in a dress.

2. Over time folks get accustomed to different looking folks. Especially after they get to know them.

Now, I look at other's pics here, and at the T friends I meet, with a completely different view. I notice how nicely their outfit, hair, shoes, makeup, etc., look. I don't see men in dresses anymore. I see friends and friends I haven't met yet!

3. Folks here will get used to and accept u once they get to know u. It helps if u accept yourself, too!

I used to get kicked around a lot when I first showed up here and began posting Sherry's photos all over the place. (Fewer photo restrictions back then). Not a lot of members had seen CD's who dressed with masks on like me. Now, most everyone has gotten used to me here. Whether or not they like Sherry's looks, I get almost no flack.

U won't be the first to post pics here with hair on your body, no wig, or no make up. And, u won't be the last. The sooner and more often all of u post, the sooner the rest of us will get used to your pics and get to know u better. Then, you'll be accepted and more comfortable presenting here, too!

[Lynn Marie]

After getting dressed and painting my face I don my hair, go to the mirror for a few styling brush strokes, and smile. It's at this point that I seem to make a transition from a guy in a dress to a classy old broad with a killer wardrobe. I did the "guy in a dress" thing privately for years before makeup and hair and finally shaving everything. Now I can't go back and have a difficult time with that "guy in a dress" out in public. It's like we're from two different worlds.

Of course you are free to do as you like, and you can condemn me for trying to fool everyone. Just trying to explain that I didn't choose to be here, it was simply a progression in the sport for me.

[Gizmo, Debbie]

I shan't tell a lie but if i get it right then it might help?

When i see a guy in dress i expect to him to making some effort to look like a girl such as no facial hair or no leg hair or anything else considered girly.
Now that problem is MINE NOT YOURS!
It can take me a few minutes to accept the PERSON as they are and NOT the image the present with.

For as open minded as people are it is a totaly natural reaction to question anything perceived as "differant". It's something that comes from animal instinct to be wary of anything differant. Is it a threat ot not, can i fight it off or do i need to run.

As humans there can be a bit of a delay between that inital primative "ohh ohh. what's that" feeling and the higher reasoning of being human kicking in.

YOU BE YOU.:hugs::hugs:
If anybody has a problem with that and can't reconcile it with the higher resoning and emotional abilities of a human then they are not worth you worrying about.

for true acceptance and friendship WE have to Adapt to YOU. NOT the other way around.:hugs:

[Sara Jessica]

Debbie's post really hits home for me. A couple points...


When i see a guy in dress i expect to him to making some effort to look like a girl such as no facial hair or no leg hair...

I generally agree with this statement when it comes to those who go out & about. But that's just me. Before fireballs are hurled my way, read on...


If anybody has a problem with that and can't reconcile it with the higher resoning and emotional abilities of a human then they are not worth you worrying about.

Yet despite how I feel, I have learned much in these pages over the years and have worked to reconcile other presentations, particularly the "guy in a dress" look. There have been at least two or three very thoughtful and respectable members in this forum who have really opened my eyes to their POV which happens to be much different from mine. I don't see much participation from them of late although I recently saw a post from one of these people and was glad to see that they are back.

I do admit that when you throw a beard onto a "guy in a dress" look that I still have a hard time getting my head around it when it comes to PUBLIC PRESENTATION. That's on me, not anyone else. If a picture were posted to this effect, I'd probably refrain from comment.

But I think where many here are being painted with a broad brush unfairly is when it comes to the individual who is truly trying to present a feminine image, perhaps with a wig and makeup but with tufts of chest hair poking out of their top, or hairy mitts, or fur evident under their nylons. I see those people being "gently" advised that those visual cues are betraying their effort to be feminine. The problem is that such advice is like "tell me something I don't already know" in that perhaps that individual would like to remove the fur but cannot for whatever reason so it becomes sort of a catch-22.

Some here believe in community. I know I do. But my world view was formed by experiences and those I know personally and I certainly didn't arrive here overnight. Others eschew such a POV and that's fine, just as many eschew labels. We are all different which is what makes this wonderful world go around. Still, as has been mentioned before, some of us don't quite see things through the same colored glass as you, just as you don't necessarily see things our way. That doesn't make us foes, it simply makes us different. People are people and they will either come to understanding and/or empathy (I know I've tried) or simply hold fast to their first impression. I guess it is what it is.

[May(be)]

Mink,

I completely agree with your rant. I even posted a question on this board a while back that asked the question "does this board encourage femininity at the expense of masculinity?" The answers were extremely candid. Many of the members- including moderators- blatantly explained that it does by design, and they'd like to make that sort of marginalization even more prominent.

I feel bad for the crossdresser who comes here and doesn't want to shave. The man who likes wearing dresses.
I feel bad for the crossdresser who is just starting to explore their confused relationship to gender.
I feel bad for the fetishist who isn't looking to go outside presenting female.

This board casts a wide-net for who it claims to represent. Unfortunately "crossdresser" is a very nebulous term, as others in this thread have pointed out. I think the best way to deal with idealogues on this board is to include a disclaimer about who you are (your GI) and what you plan to achieve with your crossdressing at the top of any picture threads you'd like to post. I'm not suggesting EVERYONE should post that disclaimer at the top of their thread, but maybe CD.com members who deviate from the accepted culture of CD.com should. Is that discrimination? Maybe, but don't expect positive responses to your picture thread if CD.com members think they're looking at another "do I pass" pic dump.

But, if you wear a dress and have a huge, burly beard, it's all good to me. :)


Addendum: It's important to state the thread I posted was nearly a year ago. Since then the culture has changed on this board, somewhat. Also, moderators are free to post their ideas of what this board embodies, just like any other member. I'm simply relaying what was said at the time.

[Tina_gm]

One of the reasons why I do not go out in public is because I do not want to alter my appearance. For me to go out I would want to pass, really pass. Cudos for those who do not care and are just comfortable being and looking how they are. I do not and would not expect a conformity for Cders, it is just my personal desire not to stand out in a crowd. I can see where some might feel a pressure to do more or be more than what they wish to be or are comfortable with. I CD because it comforts me and helps me to connect to my feminine side. I have no other reason. If I gave the effort and made the alterations to my appearance I could possibly blend, as I am 5'9" and small boned, thin at around 160ish. Not real big hands or feet. But I would have to shave my goatee and probably do some work on my eyebrows and arm hair, which is not very hairy, but hairy enough that it would draw attention. Too much of my life is being the guy I am and I am not willing to sacrifice my normal appearance for the small amount of time that I do dress and that I would go out. Would I like to at times? sure. One day I may do a full transformation. I am curious as to how I would look. I am realistic though and even if I were to do a transformation, I am certain that I would not completely pass. not with close scrutiny. I am content to dress partially (no wig or make up) and express my feminine side as I can in private. I know that I told my wife I will never say never, and that is an issue for her, but I just do not want to put myself in a box. I am content enough to allow my feminine side expression in private, and still be the guy I am both in private and in public.

[Cheryl T]

Having a beard and body hair is not my thing...but I've been there.
There were many years when that's the only way I could dress and it was fine. I didn't look for anyone's approval and didn't care if anyone disapproved. It was me and how I felt and enjoyed my dressing at the time.
The same is true for you. Do what you feel is right for you, not for everyone else, but also don't look for blanket approval.
No one really cares what you do in your home and what makes you happy. I think that what you are seeing is the discussion about those that venture out in public with a beard and hairy body dressed. So many of us have tried to be accepted by the public and as with any other group there are those on the "fringe". I'm not saying this is a negative, but it is usually perceived that way by those outside the community much in the way that Hell's Angels are perceived and are interpreted to be representative of all who ride motorcycles. No, this is not the right way to see a portion of a group, but it is what happens as people always make generalizations and those that are the most flamboyant and "in your face" are the ones that produce the image in other's minds.


Do you thing, enjoy what you do, post your pictures, but remember that we are people too. If you ask for comments or criticism be prepared to receive them, and there will most likely be ones that sting.


Yes, you are welcome here as all are. Please don't expect us to all be alike or you are guilty of the same categorization that those outside the forum are.


Just be yourself.... and as someone once told me.... "Pressure is self-imposed".

[sweetshauna]

Just be you. To hell with naysayers. After all, if they have male genitalia and in a dress, underneath they ARE a man in a dress.
I shave, do make-up. getting forms and a wig. when all is said and done, i'll still be a man in a dress. I love to feel fem, and I plan to keep wearing all the womanly attire.
And if, no when, my CDing goes public I will present as much like a woman as possible. But again I will still be, and look like a man in a dress. so I don't see the difference whether you're shaved or not.
if it did, wouldn't that make me a hypocrite?
Post us a pic , in drab, or enfemme. JUST DON'T SHAVE!!!!!
Rub it in their face. hahahaha

[Lucy_Bella]

Some here do live double lifes there's no doubt and many of us don't only enjoy our male side but have those who are close to us that only know of that side ...To shave a beard that can take months to grow is making a very loud statement and Lucy there's gonna be some explaining to do when it's gone.. So some of us would rather not go through having to explain to dozens of people as to why our face is naked..

To me having a beard while dressed honestly wasn't by choice I wished it gone while dressed but I knew it would come at a cost in my double life ..In saying that I also wish my male chin and lower jaw gone , my uni-brow, my muscular arms and broad shoulders not to mention the adams apple I too carry those over when dressed ..Should I do something about these other items to represent the community properly? I understand that most here are only talking about the style of how some dress and rightfully so ..Dress when out with respect and perhaps to match your age but to me shaving a beard is no different than shaping eyebrows ..

[Tina B.]

Yes Mink, there is a gender/fashion police, but fortunately they have no real authority and are not to be taken serious. You are not the first one that feels the way you do as to how you dress, we had many guy's in a dress. I for one don't dress for fun, I dress to fill a need, how I dress is not important since I'm in the closet. But some days it's full on dress, heels and makeup, but some times it's just a skirt and a bald headed old man that needs a shave. both can fill my need. Who am I to tell you or anyone else, how to fill your needs?
I will look at your photos just I do all the rest and what I'll be thinking is another proud sister that is peeking out of the closet, how wonderful!

[Billie Jean]

Mink look at my avatar. Be yourself and post your picture. I for one would be glad to have you share with us. Billie Jean

[kimdl93]

Not everyone is going to respond with encouragement. We can't reasonably expect conformity In people's reactions to different styles and preferences any more than we can expect individuals to conform to one way of presenting or experiencing CDing. Even intolerance is a prerogative. As Erin said, enjoy being yourself and don't worry about 'acceptance'.

[Jenniferathome]

Mink, for me, it's all in when I dress. I can't reconcile the female shape and clothing with my male face. in the same way, I have adopted a female name when dressed. Not that anyone is really using it for me. And that's me. When in public, I am hypersensitive to presentation for fear of being embarrassed. Again, that's me. Reconciling the female part with the male part is different for everyone. "I don't get it" and "You shouldn't do it" are very different things. I do not get the guys with beards and dresses but I do not live with their consequences of that choice. My rules apply to me and my wife. No more.

[CarlaWestin]

Great discussion. Although my recent avatar and profile pictures display complete transformation, I am primarily a gender fetishist. This all started with an extreme breast fetish and I do get quite a charge out of displaying somewhere between M and F, only artfully. Figure that one out. Funny, when I had a protracted block of private time recently, I opted to stay home while fully transformed. I was obsessed with getting the perfect images of me as a woman and I did. My forays out in public were quite different. Basically, well endowed but of questionable gender. I was practically unnoticed and treated respectfully by the few people I encountered. I'm not sure which adventure was more exciting but I do know it was all about emulating what I wanted to be and it was fun.

[Asche]

I'm another (occasional) participant here who presents as a man but wears skirts and dresses. I haven't ever posted a picture of myself because back when I was first posting and mentioned how I dress, I got some pretty nasty responses. I have the impression that the mods started cracking down some time after that and people seem to be reasonably polite nowadays, but it's going to take a long time before I sit on that particular stove lid again.

Another reason I don't post pictures of myself is that I don't have much faith that anyone would understand what I'm doing enough to give me useful feedback. I don't need affirmation from here -- I go out "dressed" all the time and people seem at least tolerant and sometimes appreciative of how I dress. What I could use is some feedback to improve my presentation.
I actually go to quite a bit of effort with it -- I mostly wear clothes I've made myself because clothes made for women don't fit me in a way that I think looks good, and I spend a fair amount of time figuring out what to wear with what and looking in the mirror. But I'm not trying to pass as a woman, and my impression is that if I did post pictures, most of the advice I'd get would be focussed on what I need to pass better.

Lately, I haven't felt a lot of actual pressure to change my presentation, to the extent I talk about it at all. What I do feel is the absence of people who would appreciate my presentation and who I could talk to about it.

I wonder if it would make sense to propose a "mixed presentation" forum for the men who aren't looking to pass as women?

[Sandra]

I wonder if it would make sense to propose a "mixed presentation" forum for the men who aren't looking to pass as women?

This is a site for crossdressers, you wear womens clothing and don't identify as TS then you are a crossdresser whether you want to pass or not. There will not be another forum section created on here, as the MtF covers everybody.

[JennyLynn]

Wow. That's a tough one. I totally support you in your just liking to wear womens clothes. I guess I go whole hog because I really want to let the feminine side of me out. Maybe you don't have a femme side..that's cool. But it does seem to be a bit contradictary with your wanting to dress. NOT being critical here, it's just something I can't relate to. I'm sure there are alot of reasons why some of us dress, but I think it does have alot to do with our "feminine" side and maybe not so much as a fetish. There's nothing wrong with fetishes, in fact, most are totally harmless. I just think that most dressers are experiencing something that more deals with their internal feminine proclivities....did I spell that right???

I really don't think we should be rubbing anything into anybodys face. This is a site for all of us to explore ourselves, not a place to jab each other. I can get that from the general public!

[Rachael Leigh]

Mink I agree with you it prob is different and maybe strange, why get in a dress at all if your not going to add all the other stuff, but you know what so what. Many days I get dressed up in my girls stuff and never add anything to it. I do shave my legs because I enjoy them smooth but if you don't who cares. I know Im a man and that will never change and if I like wearing a dress or skirt so what, I will try to look more like a girl sometimes and other times Im just in my girls clothes so good for you

[Jaymees22]

Wow, look what you have started here! How about be true to yourself and just do whatever you feel comfortable with. I dress to feel better, to be myself and to express myself in a whole new way. Hugs Jaymee

PS: On my male Facebook page I have a picture of my dog.

[Dani0948]

One really nice thing about our forum is you can read (or not), post (or not). We each can participate to whatever level we want. If I don't like or agree with any thread I usually skip it. There is always another thread that I will find interesting.

[samanthasolo]

Mink, the main reason we are all here is because we have 1 thing in common. We like to dress! For whatever reason, regardless of how we do it we can all identify with some more than others. You know what the old saying about opinions are, Right! This forum is full of many different types and regardless of the type there is no right or wrong way so forget about opinions! Whether here or in the REAL WORLD you are going to run into those who have something to say about everything, those who know everything about everything, those who want to control what you do and how you do things and the ironic thing about that is those are the ones who have the least amount of control when it comes to themselves! Those who tell you everything they think you want to hear, and those who only want to hear only what they want to hear! Those who want all the attention and praise and the same ones are the ones who will never give any compliments or praise in return. Funny that they are also the ones that will jump on an opportunity to chime in with a less than favorable comment when asked for an honest opinion. Well this can go on and on and on.

My honest opinion is this, You set the standards and the NORMAL for you and screw what all the Narcissus and know it alls think or say! It is the genuine people here that you will seek you out or you will find. And those people are one in the same when they are dressed or not dressed. They are the ones that will have regards for your thoughts or feelings, and they will be the ones who will NOT make you feel inclined to have to start a thread such as this! You do you and forget about all the insignificant WHO's! How about that for a FACT!

[JennyLynn]

Samantha,
Why do you always have to be the smartest one posting? :) I wish I was as stunningly effective and insightful as you.

[Kate Simmons]

Go ahead and post your pic Hon. I guarantee I won't have a problem with it. And everyone on here knows how fussy I am. ):heehee::)

[julia ann]

your opening headlined reminded me of something I read years ago. "The only thing a non-conformist hates more than a conformist is another non-conformist that will not conform to the prevailing standards of non-conformity." in other words just be who you are and if there is anyone who has an issue with that, there opinion be damned, last I heard there was not government regulatory board for how to properly present as a crossdresser (at least not yet). So weather you are a crossdresser or just a man or women presenting in "socially accepted" attire ,there is no one above anyone else setting the rules. Samantha I could not agree with you more about the people who know everything about everything.....those people really annoy those of us who actually do know everything about everything:) :)