2 questions: & Double cross dress

[Krististeph]

I recently replied to a message asking why that person felt a sexual charge from crossdressing, and in reply I included that most CDs are heterosexual.


...We simply Love the way women look! - in some ways you might even consider crossdressing to be the ultimate tribute to the beauty of the female body.
This got me to wondering:

Do you think, as a whole, the proportion of homosexuality is larger in the general male population versus male CD/TG/TS subset?

( sorry about the thread name, I goofed! )

[MarciManseau]

From having many, many contacts with girls like me, I'd have to say that most are hetero but with strong bi-leanings when they're dressed up. I seriously doubt that we have a smaller percentage of gays in our population.

[Marcelle]

Hi Krististeph,

I am going to put on my social scientist hat to provide my response . . . just my take though.

Whenever we take a subset of a population writ large in this case the superordinate population is "males" with CD/TG/TS being the subset, we are looking a representative sampling across the subset. Specifically, while a certain percentage of males are "homosexual" within the male population, when we carve out the subset, it is likely we will see a similar representative percentage within this subset. Now it could be slightly reduced or increased depending on the subset but it is quite likely very close.

Just my stats geek coming out. :)

BTW, you said two questions I only see one.

Hugs

Isha

[Beverley Sims]

I think the greater male population has an equally large percentage of gay people, as crossdressers do as a group.
We may have more because of the perceived sexual orientation.

[PretzelGirl]

In my opinion, sexual identity and gender identity are completely separate. So using that theory, the percentage of us that identify as GLB would be the same as the population that isn't TG. But, I also believe that because our minds are more open in general, we have less denial when it comes to being GLB than the non-TG population, so the numbers may have the appearance of being higher.

[Diane Douglas]

Many years back when we were first married, I used to come home and put on a bra, panties and a peignoir. Well she tired of it soon enough and put on some of my underwear to wear.

I don't remember what my reaction was other than to ask her what she was doing. I don't remember being upset or condemning of her one time behavior. Now I wish I had supported it. Anyway, I got her message and would occasionally dress when she was not around. Oh, and that was probably the last time I fit into any of her clothes.

[Jenniferathome]

Cross dressers are represented in every race, socioeconomic class, profession, religion, etc. It only makes, sense that the same percentage of people who are homosexual in the general public would be represented in the cross dresser group.

That would also prove that that one does not cross dress to attract males. Rather we just cross dress. A gay man wants a "man" not a woman.

[Lucy_Bella]

I believe that sexual preference and cding are separate.. I also believe that for cding alone without G.I. is a sexual act within itself .. Many may fantasize about being with a male/female partner while having Bi-tendency feelings while and only dressed .. But will never act upon those fantasies ( perhaps this is where the quilt comes from for many over cding)..

I'm not out to argue over who's straight or who has Bi-Tendencies, I believe the O.P. might be onto something that most males are of a sexual nature that is based upon attraction first.. So finding attraction to feminine ,dressed very sexy and can pass cders may be a natural reaction.. Because most men think with their other head first..Question is , do we dress to attract other males? I can only answer that one for myself... No!!! I don't..

[gautier_nikolai]

Interesting question.Proportionally far fewer gay males would CD if this theory holds true so maybe.

Through personal experience, as a gay male, and outside of the Drag Queens who do it professionally or for a bit of drama and fun on a night out at the local gay bar i don't know any other gay males who CD.

I haven't asked but then again would gay males be just as likely to be in the closet, on average as a group? I'm not sure either!

However, i do know alot of gay males who grow body and facial hair and are attracted to similar types; yet some are still quite camp in nature!The whole bear culture which has a definate sexual aspect to it based on the look they create for themselves.

I also know some who love soccer jerseys and sports kit and donning army kit and don't play team sports or participate in the territorial army or members of the regular army.

Maybe those or the bears are a gay males' kind of equivalent to the fetish dresser or the CD who started off with a sexual aspect trying on lingerie and stuff.

[Requal Jo]

I believe the majority of real cross dressers are heterosexual males.

Most gay men I have conversed with do not like the female gender or anything to with it and are drawn to the masculine gender only. Hence they are not likely to cross dress.

I further understand that those who are transiting were often misnamed as gay however this believe is slowly changing with the introduction of the term gender reassignment.

[AllieSF]

I believe that the majority of MtF CD's are straight. I also believe that many, maybe even most, at one time or another have gotten sexually excited while dressing, partially or completely. From the posts here from us members, which does not necessarily correlate directly with the non-member part of our greater TG community, there is a tendency for many professed straight male members to be sexually attracted to other MtF TG's in fantasy or otherwise. So, though I believe that our population here may have less totally gay people than the general population, I also think that there maybe more Bi-curious tendencies here than we may expect. One reason I see, may be the fact that once we accept that we enjoy crossdressing, which is already messing with societies perceived gender boundaries, we also take on a more liberal attitude about other areas of gender and sexuality, ours and others. We become more tolerant and accepting of others and feel more freedom to explore more. I have no idea how many Bi people are in the general population and how that compares to us members here. However, many times people need some type of stimulant or catalyst to motivate them to explore areas that they once felt were taboo. Our being here and communicating openly with others similar to ourselves maybe just the stimulant needed to bring someone out of another closet, so to speak. I.e. This site is liberating in more ways than just accepting what clothes we like to wear.

[Rachel Morley]

In my opinion, sexual identity and gender identity are completely separate. So using that theory, the percentage of us that identify as GLB would be the same as the population that isn't TG. But, I also believe that because our minds are more open in general, we have less denial when it comes to being GLB than the non-TG population, so the numbers may have the appearance of being higher.
I think Sue nailed it! This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking :)

[Zylia]

In my opinion, sexual identity and gender identity are completely separate.
You're quite possibly right about that, but I guess you're also implying that cross-dressing behaviour is the result of a 'nonstandard' gender identity instead of (for lack of a better word) a fetish. The CD population on this forum may be something special with all the gender snowflakes and split personalities, but that's in sharp contrast with basically everywhere else where the more raunchy fetish dressers are much more prevalent. Sorry for the very crude oversimplification, but it wouldn't surprise me if cross-dressing actually is something 'typically' heterosexual with a few borderline cases confusing autogynephilia with bisexuality.

[ReineD]

It makes sense that the proportion of gay males in the CD population is the same as the non-CD population.

It just looks like there are more here, because of the sheer amount of fantasizing about having sex with men while dressed. But, a fantasy is a fantasy and is no indication that the CDer would actually enjoy having sex with a male. If anything, the fantasy is an indication that the CDer is rather attracted to thoughts of himself as a sexy woman (even when with a woman, for some), so it really boils down to a form of auto-eroticism. Not homo-eroticism.

:2c:

[Annaliese2010]

I recently replied to a message asking why that person felt a sexual charge from crossdressing, and in reply I included that most CDs are heterosexual.

This got me to wondering:

Do you think, as a whole, the proportion of homosexuality is larger in the general male population versus male CD/TG/TS subset?

( sorry about the thread name, I goofed! ) Me? I don't think it's a 'male homosexual' thing to make love with another M2F TG person. If anything, that's Female-Female homosexuality i.e. lezzy couple. Assuming both are truly transgendered and aversive to blatant males. Know what I mean? Or am I stupid? Don't really know. Confused... (sigh...).

[kellibra]

i am inclined to go with marcimanseau. i view myself as a straight hetero as i absolutely adore and idolize women. i often fantasize about being intimate with women i see but never with any guys. however when dressed... i find my mind wandering and wondering what it would be like to experience sex as a woman with a man. probably a quest for feminine validation?

[stephNE]

I think we can divide the TG community into two groups: those who go on to transitioning, and those who never transition (cross dress only). For those in the first group (transitioning), I think the percentage of homosexuality is considerably higher. But for the second group (cross dressers), I think the percentage of homosexuality is much lower, maybe almost non existent.

[mary something]

I remember reading some literature about crossdressers that were tested in different ways to try and determine how they were different from other males out of the general population and the only significant psychological difference was that men who are crossdressers were more likely to be open to new experiences than the average.

Socially homosexuality is considered an all or nothing type of thing however the kinsey report made it rather clear that there is a significant amount of the male population that is predominately heterosexual but will be incidentally homosexual or even more than incidentally homosexual. That is science however and socially most people who identify socially as gay or homosexual tend to be men who are looking for other men.

I heard drag queen once who had breast implants describe them as just something for work and call themselves a guy. That made me think that while we both wanted some nice boobies for ourselves maybe we were more different than alike lol.

[Brooklyn]

Well, I know several strictly gay CDers locally and on this forum. I'd guess about 1/3 of CDers I meet are into guys when dressed. Lots of CDers are into other CDers. Another large proportion of CDers aren't into guys or other CDers, but fantasize about having sex as a woman (the faceless man). Plus, there are many drag performers and wannabes who love to dress up; many of them are TS too. All of the early-transitioning M2F TS's I know personally prefer guys, but apparently not all do. And taking surveys of CDers is next to impossible because so many are totally closeted. So, it's pure speculation on how many T people are also G,L, or B. To some extent, those categories are culturally defined as well; homosexuality is viewed differently in many Latin cultures, for example. Even in Anglo culture, there are many L people who may actually be T, but since women wearing guy's clothing is no big deal here, they aren't counted among us. Maybe someone will fund a study someday, but what difference would it really make to have those statistics? :rose:

[Krististeph]

Thanks everyone for responding, i know this is a question that could have dozens of interpretations.

Of all the people I have told about my crossdressing or gender 'dysphoria', they all ask at some point if i am gay. Honestly, I think it would be simpler (in terms of being able to have others understand) if i were gay, but that is just so not the case. And it seems that to most people (excepting present company) that they just don't, or can't, understand.

I know this is kind of re-hashing old stuff, but we do have new people here all the time, so I think it's a kosher topic. 'Would actually knowing the results really make a difference?', Ashley asks.

In general, no. To me specifically, in that if I were correct in thinking that male crossdressers & transgenders (please pardon the labels and poor phrasing) are more enamored of all feminines aspect that we would be less likely to be homosexual (attracted to the masculine), yes then, it would matter to me because I would have confirmation that i understand a certain facet or viewpoint about my crossdressing. And this is important to me because it has such a big impact on my life. and indirectly, others around me.

Again, it is great to hear so many viewpoints- while this may not qualify as research, nor be statistically significant (don't even get me started on how to define our population or subsets... simple definition changes could change the entire outcome, and the act of defining is even more problematic with us due to the paucity of consensus of terminology), it does give us lots more to consider!

-kristi