... I love you dude!

[PaulaQ]

That's what he said to me at the end of the evening. He'd misgendered me about, I dunno, a dozen times during the conversation over dinner. I think he was uncomfortable too - he uses humor when he feels defensive, and he told a lot misogynistic jokes. "I love you dude!" was just the icing on the cake.

I'm stupid to have feelings for this guy - he's an old friend - I've known him more than 30 years. During that time, we were just guy friends. We've had all sorts of adventures, been really close friends, we've talked about all sorts of stuff - he was the second person I came out to. (The first being my wife, who will be my ex-wife next year, I expect.)

Over the months since I came out to him, he's talked to me more on the phone. Honestly, he's always talked to me a lot on the phone, talking about his feelings and stuff. He noticed the last time we talked "I love talking to women, I can talk to them for hours ... just like I always talked to you... <awkward pause>"

Since I started HRT, I have noticed my sexual orientation appears to have switched. I had assumed I'd be a lesbian, because I've always liked, and been with, women. But over time - not a very long time either - it's become all about guys. It's weird, partly because it doesn't feel weird - it feels normal, actually.

Anyway, during all this, we've kept talking, and as he's shared things with me about himself, and I've found my friendship and genuine affection for him growing into something more.

Now I figured this was a pretty stupid thing to do - to develop these feelings, but hey, what you feel is what you feel. The feelings were a surprise to me too.

So I spent two hours getting ready, and met my friend for dinner. I then spent the next hour hearing jokes I didn't much care for, and being misgendered. We split the check. At the end, I pointed out that he'd misgendered me - a lot. And he was apologetic and said "it's hard to unlearn 30 years of habit and history." And I think that is obviously true. And he followed it up with "I love you dude!" and he gave me a hug.

Given the past history, I really don't see him ever coming around. For one thing - he only pursues women he can't ever get. I think he'll die a bachelor. My son thinks so too. (They are close.) I'd definitely be gettable. I don't even know why I started feeling this way - I guess the emotional closeness I feel to him is really the thing that kind of hooked me.

Oh well, I think it's unlikely he'll ever really see me that way, even if he gets used to me being a woman. (He really is trying to do that - he is a good friend.) I'm not going to sit around pining for him - been there, done that, never works.

It's just really unfortunate, and it doesn't feel very good. (I have a story about the aftermath of this that isn't very good either.) And I knew from the outset that I was a dumbass to even think about going there.

Stupid hormones.

[Jorja]

You cannot expect people to change and start using the proper pronouns overnight. You say you have known this person for 30 years. He is probably not going to change right away, if ever. Look at it like this, he didn't run away from you. He didn't beat the hell out of you. He didn't call you bad names and try to publicly degrade you. Give the guy some time and then correct him each time he calls you a dude or he. If you value your relationship with this guy, work with him and enjoy a friend.

[stefan37]

First he is a long time male friend. He obviously has been a good friends for what? 30 years. It us unrealistic to think he would go out with you and immediately think of you as female and gender you as such. You should be happy he is supportive and want to continue the relationship. Wait till you go to your first business meeting other than your place of employment. As everyone is introducing themselves you unwittingly introduce yourself as Paul, then catch yourself and say Paula. But what you said is out.

Secondly you are wrong to approach any long teem relationship with your male friends as anything but that.unless they make the first move and even then i would be wary s it will be scattered with land mines unseen to you both.

At this point in your transition don't take misgendering so seriously our it will be a long difficult adjustment period.

[mary something]

be careful, especially since your son is close to him. Lots of landmines there...

[MatildaJ.]

It does sound like a dangerous time of life -- your hormones are pushing you to have school girl crushes, but you're already sexually experienced and so your imagination doesn't stay at the level of holding hands and kissing. I'm sorry for the situation; rejection is always awful, even when it's expected.

[Lorileah]

One of my friends always greets me with "My MAN!" even when I wear a mini and heels. This friend asked me the other day how to address me in our upcoming show then added he didn't want to disrespect me (I will be crossdressing for that show...I will appear as a guy). Another friend always does the high five handshake when we meet instead of keeping his hand down at waist level. One night I walked out of the bar because everyone was using "he" and "Him" towards me. Later a good female friend explained exactly what you said, they knew me for years as a male..hard to break that habit. I expect my dad will always refer to me as a male and by my male name. Some people will never get it. A piano player I was performing with asked over the mic after I said I was from Nebraska "Are you a farm boy?" then after I finished the song he yelled "Let's hear it for him". This guy has never even seen me as a male.

In regard to the change in sexual orientation, be careful. You would think that having been one for years, we would know how men think. Nope, we fall for the same lines we used, we pretend that we can make them love us, we believe they want to be with us for more than sex. So just watch yourself. Take more time than you would normally. Remember we are teenagers, we are going through everything a girls went through in high school except homework. I remember how it hurt me as a guy when a girl dumped me....it hurts as bad or worse when guys do it at our age.

I want to believe I now have a handle on it. That I will wait until mister or miss Right comes along who wants me for me...but I have to stop and think a lot

[PaulaQ]

I appreciate everyone's comments. Some notes:
Yeah, it's a friendship minefield falling for this guy. There are more complications than I listed - his brother is married to my ex wife, for one thing. (Yes, obviously I am a candidate for the Jerry Springer show.)

I know it will take him time to gender me correctly, and he may never get there. If I sounded ungrateful to my friend for remaining my friend, I can assure you that wasn't my intent - I am very grateful for that.

I know that falling for this guy is a stupid, stupid ****ing thing to do. I didn't set out to do it! It just sort of happened. It was like this - after I came out to him, he shared a lot more stuff about his personal feelings and therapy, and problems he'd had in the past. This was fairly emotionally intimate stuff. At first, hey, we were just pals and I had no interest in dudes, best I could tell, so we just became closer friends. He misgendered me pretty consistently then - he'd try to fix it though. He is trying, it's just hard. It really didn't bother me much. I was grateful to have a close friend.

AND THEN HORMONES. Yeah, 3 months into HRT, and I found myself seated on the front car of the emotional roller coaster. Sometimes I felt really awesome (it really helps my GD a LOT), and other days I'd cry all day, sometimes I was kind of bitchy. I didn't care - it felt great just to have emotions again. My friend kept talking to me, sharing more stuff, and I found myself thinking about him a lot - the emotional connection between us as friends just sort of took off. It surprised the hell out of me, to be honest. I've never had these sorts of feelings about a man.

So I knew having any illusions of anything other than friendship between us were just utter stupidity, and that it simply wasn't going to happen - ever. Even if this guy did suddenly change his thinking and decide in a year or so "wow, Paula is actually kind of a pretty girl..." I could be married and divorced a couple more times before he ever got up the nerve to do anything about it.

I knew all this - I'm not stupid. The thing is - my emotions ARE stupid, especially on hormones. All I can really say in my defense is that if our emotions were always smart, psychologists would starve! :)

Mostly I just wanted to talk about how I was feeling - because nobody ever told me - "hey, don't fall for your best friend after you've been on HRT for a while." (I know a trans woman and her best friend who went from best friends to having a relationship - so I'd seen this happen, even though they were MUCH younger, different people, but they had been close guy friends for many years.)

So anyway, yeah, I'm stupid. I'm used to unrequited love - I'll get over this. I have plenty of experience with this with women when I was younger. So I'll deal, and I'll be OK, and I'll try my best not to **** up a great friendship. That may be hard though - because stuff that he does that didn't used to bother me really bothers me now. Stupid emotions!



In regard to the change in sexual orientation, be careful. You would think that having been one for years, we would know how men think. Nope, we fall for the same lines we used, we pretend that we can make them love us, we believe they want to be with us for more than sex. So just watch yourself. Take more time than you would normally.


Yeah, hey, I'm sure I'll be pretty vulnerable to this. I've NEVER understood how men think, and as far as using lines on women - I've never once done that. Even when I went to bars when I was younger, I picked up exactly one woman from a bar. I felt horrible about the one night stand afterwards, and never did it again. (I am such a freaking goody-two-shoes!) So yeah, I suspect the first guy that shows me any attention will play me like a freaking fiddle.

So a follow-up to the story. Saturday night, after seeing my wife on Wednesday, missing being with her on Thanksgiving the next day, and feeling crappy about my friend's obvious but expected non-interest, I decided:
"Hey! There are a LOT of gay bars just down the street from my condo. I think I'll go to one of 'em and see what happens."
I can't say that I was really looking forward to what would've happened had I gotten picked up - I didn't care. I just wanted to feel desirable to SOMEONE at that moment, even if it would involve having sex in ways I wasn't very comfortable with. (I'm pretty dysphoric about having guy parts.) I didn't care - I was really lonely.

Thing is - I'm a recovering alcoholic. I've been sober 24 years now. Going to a bar, trying to get picked up, alone, feeling as crappy as I did that night was a stupid goddamned idea, it would've been too easy to slip. So at the last minute, I went to the local LGBT AA meeting instead. Hadn't been to a meeting in person in 20 years. I think I need it now though - I'm really vulnerable.

So I don't know what I'll do to eventually meet a nice guy. Seems like science fiction to me - I can't even imagine getting asked out. Well, hope I get surprised someday.

[mary something]

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but the next time you consider meeting your friend just try and think about it from your son's perspective. Imagine how he would feel if he found out
that you had been intimate with this friend, his uncle maybe? Honey if you keep having meetings with him and talking for hours then chances are something will happen with time. I know this is crude but you know what the best way to get over somebody is? Get over somebody else instead. Your hormones are going crazy right now and you have needs, it's part of being a woman right? No shame in it but just don't make things harder for yourself than they already are. You gotta be making healthy choices right now Paula, your threads when your down tear me up! :beatup:

:hugs:

[PaulaQ]

try and think about it from your son's perspective. Imagine how he would feel if he found out

Oh it's more hilarious than that. I think my (soon to be ex) wife is interested in him too. It's made for reality TV. Or a made for TV movie, on Lifetime. All I can say is that clearly - God likes a sitcom. (What's so special about this guy? Mostly that he's really funny, and he never goes away, so after a while, I guess he kind of grows on you...)


Honey if you keep having meetings with him and talking for hours then chances are something will happen with time.

Ah, I dunno. I'll just let it go. It's completely impossible. I already knew that, it just hurt a little to have it confirmed, even though I knew that's what would happen. I don't think that even after I have SRS, he'll get over the fact that he knew me when I had a penis.


I know this is crude but you know what the best way to get over somebody is? Get over somebody else instead. Your hormones are going crazy right now and you have needs, it's part of being a woman right?

I agree, if nothing else, I need a damned date! I'll have to figure that out though. I really am pretty clueless about it.


You gotta be making healthy choices right now Paula, your threads when your down tear me up! :beatup:

Hey, I went to AA instead of going to a bar - that's pretty healthy. And I am feeling better. Look - my emotions are just kind of all over the place right now. So sometimes they set me up to be kind of sad. It's OK - I can be sad. I'm not in a crisis mode right now. When I'm sad - I'm just sad. I bounce back.

edit: Another thought. As I've been talking to people, I've realized that there are some closeted straight people living down here in the gayborhood. Who knew?!? Maybe I'll find a date after all. :p Erm, or Craig's List...

[PaulaQ]

He texted me with a really random question this evening while I was out buying a few supplies before the upcoming ice storm hit. So I texted him back that I'd call him when I got home.

I had a really good idea how this would go, but I still day-dreamed about him on the way home. (Emotions are stupid.)

So I called and answered his question (No, we will not be seeing comet ISON - it's gone), and we chatted for a bit. I asked him about a letter I'd given him last week where I talked about how much progress he'd made in his life because of the therapy he's been pursuing for a couple of years.

I told him about starting up AA, and why I'd done it - loneliness. I asked him how he dealt with it, because he's been alone for a long time. He told me "Well, I'm used to it, but I don't like it."

So I pushed him to join some dating sites, and try to find a loving relationship with a woman he could have a positive and loving relationship. (I mentioned that I expected that to be hard for me - being trans, and he agreed. He certainly knew he could never date a trans woman, and he allowed that this reaction might be common amongst men our age.) So I pointed out that the only thing stopping him from having a loving relationship was - HIM.

He needs to look for one. So I pushed him pretty hard to try to find one. There are lots of sites that try to match people up. Maybe he doesn't find the love of his life - but he at least gets some dates, and maybe more. That has to be better than pining away after women that have no interest in him. He's scared of being hurt - he told me that. (I knew that.)

So I bet him $100 + bragging rights that I got a boyfriend before he got a girlfriend. I'm really pushing him to try to have a relationship that's good for him for once. He's changed a lot, and I think he can do it. I'd like to see my friend be happy. Part of me wishes that would be with me - but that simply will never happen. He still sees me as my male self in a dress, which is what I figured. And that's fine. We're still good friends.

I really would though rather see him be happy - and he deserves love. He won't find anyone as awesome as I am (his loss!) but I'm hoping he'll try to find someone right for him. My friend deserves love.

As for me, well, I guess I better try to figure out how to find a date. I could use $100, but I could especially use bragging rights... I think I have a bunch more work to do on myself before I have much of a chance though. Oh well, he moves pretty slowly, so maybe I have a chance.

I wouldn't mind losing this bet - I really do want him to be happy.